When I was a Jew I hated waking up early on Saturdays, walking to the Shul, and praying for 4 hours. When I became an Atheist and realized that I like sleeping in much better.
Slight problem with the wording (and yes I know I'm making a comment about an almost two year old vid LOL), but as an Atheist, I have no belief in god/s, but churches do exist, so the last question is somewhat of a non-sequitur.
has anyone ever done anything like this?Im wondering because i have to do a project about "the factors that influnce the religious practice in christian teenagers.I have to do it in a survey and im stumped as to A(what to ask and B)where to find results etc
So the question is: Do those who are fearful of the future go to church or does the church create people who are fearful of the future? Or perhaps a mixture of both?
You will have to include more questions and options for the worldwide survey. What are Atheists going to answer? They will have to leave the last question blank or answer at random, which would drop them out of the statistics.
It is acceptable to collape categories to increase your statistical power. For example, for your outcome variable "worry," you can combine "very and extremely" into a single category. Like wise you could collapse your 5 or so church variable into three: never, sometimes, regularly. This is done routinely with ordinal measures obtained from survey data. Just make sure your collaposed data make "biologic sense" and that you disclose that you did this. we do this all the time in public health.
@ kaitlyncam your right, being a christian does not mean you have to go to church and people who think that are idiots but the good thing in going is growing in your own personal walk with god
@1993bret Bible suggests you are in fellowship with other Christians ( as in Hebrews 10:25 ). Of course, there might be different ways to do that today. I suspected most churches were corrupt, myself.
Seeing how much people who visit Carl Sagan's memorial believe is like seeing how much people who visit the creationist museum believe in creationism. Still, it's good work.
refering to the description "the majority thought that i was 'selling religion'." - i think that may be because only theists tend to doorknock, not saying you were, but there is probably a correlation between those. they probably made a link between them.
'are you worried about the future?' Isn't that a bit highly subjective. For one that could mean the fate of the universe while for another it could mean getting back home in time for football.
You again... stop being a man parasite, develop some integrity, and be willing to work for a good life and you could actually find yourself a caring mate. Such a shame... you should realize that any man of decency would not allow themselves to be used by someone like you. A real loving relationship requires both partners to treat each other right.
You could've designed a better study even with such a small sample. Your fourth question is difficult to understand and an atheist has trouble responding to this, which explains respondents' hesitation. Report results as a histogram, not as "probabilities", as your respondents were not a random process. Estimate and report uncertainty due to small sample size. Adjust for selection bias. Do not "normalize"; instead, sample from your data s.t. age and gender groups have equal counts, & bootstrap.
Your survey had a flaw that would cause some people to pause at that last question. An obvious option that should have been included in the relationship with their god and church is that neither is of any importance what so ever because they do not believe in a mythical being.
i have never been to church in my life and i know only one person that does at all! the author is surprised that 50% never go to church..?! i am much more surprised that even 50% (in the usa) do!!! xD
(i am from former east-germany where >80% consider themselves atheists ;-)
This "survey" was just silly. Does TF really think he can get the solid truth out of this? Did he take in the possibility that people lied? Were iffy? Bored? Wanted to humor him? Thought it interesting? Were just curious? Even read it?
4:30- HA,HA,HA!!! Of course people "were stopped cold and took a long pause for thought' on the last question. Could it be because it was the longest than the first ones? Silly atheists!! You always make me laugh!!
I can understand why the last question took longer for people to answer. It's akin to asking "when did you stop beating your wife?" You need to have a choice for people that have no relationship with God whatsoever. Personally, I lost his phone number and he hasn't called me back yet. I hope you consider this possibility for your next survey. Otherwise, I love your channel!
Statistics aren't there to prove but to show possible patterns.
I do agree on "Going to church does not make anyone a Christian". A lot of people do it just because of their cultural upbringing not belief. To stop behaving like the whole tribe does is often a social suicide.
@ASKaPHYSICIST What the hell kind of stupid generalization is that? "Don't believe in love". Rriigghhtt.... I suppose all the quacks involved in religious persecutions in history all "believed in love". You have any idea how stupid your statement is?
@Elythawen And Christians are on the decline. We have public school which spares our children from brainwashing and indoctrination. Atheist divorce less than Christians. Christians subscribe to a doctrine that includes murder, rape, and slavery.
But I don't think Christians are all bad. Most have good intentions and are good people. Most Atheists also have good intentions and are also good people.
But if you're going to measure them up, Christians would lose.
Good job Tfoot, its a small cross section of society only and limited to north-eastern america's population situation, but its a start, and if these answers are anything to go by when multiplied by x1mil and they still hold similar patterns, that already produces a lot of "extremely worried" regular church goers.
While Christianity is no longer the most aggressive, "convert or destroy" type of religion anymore, its still good to know where we stand when it comes to down a showdown
Hello Thunderfoot, I would like to make note that your survey's last question is missing a valueable option (no personal connection with god or religious group)
I know I would have to ask the survey's author if I could write in neither are important.
dont get me wrong, i am in no way, shape or form endorsing any of the christian religions. the thing about them is that they've only been around for about 2000 years. what i'm saying is that systemized cruelty is a inherently human trait and has a way longer history than just the abrahamic or even any religions. as a matter of fact, i think its a relief that a large portion of the civilized worl have learned its all just bogus.
now now, lets be careful with what we are preaching here. i doubt christianity has a worse record for an institution than, per say, the huns, the berzerkers or even the roman empire (permitting for your very low standards for what constitutes an institution)
You're right that Leviticus does, twice, say that to lie with a man as with a woman is "toh'ebah". The question is, do you know what the Hebrew word "toh'ebah" means? Essentially, a "toh'ebah" is a behaviour which other people engage in, but which they Jews do not engage in for more often than not, ritual or cultural reasons.
It's only 'clear' in some places when when assumes that literalism is the only valid interpretation. However, there's no reason to believe that literalism is the only valid interpretation, and many to believe that it's not the only valid interpretation.
Take the James passage you cite. Do you know which Christian rites that passage is most often associated with? Do you know why it's associated with those rites?
"Pluto, if your church truly ignores all the hatred and bigotry in your bible, if your church offers succor and support for those other christians rail against, if your church truly rejects christianity's unbroken history of rape, torture and murder and instead chooses to do what's right, why bother to be christians at all?"
Because the message of Christ is NOT that we should hate, rape, torture and murder. So, there's no reason why we cannot be Christians and hate all those things.
"I don't buy for a second that christianity really allows for what you believe, but knowing you come from Canada makes it a lot easier to believe your church is not at all typical christian."
Wow! American-centric views at all? So, because American inspired fundamentalists churches don't allow for something, then it's not typically Christian? Forget about mainstream churches (including, btw RC and orthodox churches). They don't count as 'typical Christian churches'.
Hey man, I live in Memphis, Tennessee and just wanted to share this. Memphis churches have enough seating capacity to hold almost all of our population. The top 3 churches seat a total of 24,000 and the top 10 seat around 50,000.
google "church memphis" and dig that map. It;s astonishing
Did you ever think of soliciting people all over the US to do this survey. It's interesting.
Were people asked whether they are religious or Christian before they did the survey? In the lovely area where you live, I doubt that general estimates of 85%Christianity are accurate. (I used to live there so I recognize downtown.) What other town needs the National Guard to keep order for the annual library book sale?
It would be a laugh to add questions about biblical passages. One poll years ago indicated that 15% of Americans think Joan of Arc was Noah's wife. I wish I were joking!
Well, what you don't understand is that you're reasons for believing that bigotry is mandated are based on a literal interpretation of the Bible. My Church does not hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible, but rather to a historical interpretation of the Bible. It means that we seek to understand what the Bible was actually condemning in, say, the passages believed to be about homosexuality.
That means we have to understand about the society which wrote those passages, understand about the societies which translated the passages and the languages from which they were translated.
"But when you defend the horrors of the bible and those who applied, and continue to apply, those horrors, you must be willing to accept concomitant responsibility."
Here's what you in your hatred fail to see. I don't DEFEND those horrors. I ACKNOWLEDGE them and I CONDEMN them. What I don't do is misrepresent them (which you have done) or assume that everything about Christianity is bad. Christianity's history is not significantly different from anyone else's history.
To believe that the world was wonderful, with no atrocities being committed until Christianity came along, and then that with the birth of Christianity came all these atrocities, which then stopped once people started to abandon Christianity is absurd! History doesn't support it. Atrocities existed before Christianity, and atrocities continue to occur in atheistic states. I think this speaks to the nature of mankind. No matter what institution is in place, people will commit atrocities.
"It's not, and never has been, about what YOU believe"
BULLSHIT! If it was never about what I believed, then why, time and time again, did you knowingly LIE about what I believed? Why did you time and time again claim that I supported such things?
You claim it's about an INSTITUTION which I support, yet you know NOTHING about the INSTITUTION which I support. You see, I don't support the fictional "institution of every frickin' church which has ever existed throughout all history".
I support a SPECIFIC CHURCH, which amongst other things, CONDEMNS the actions which you continue to raise. I'm not going to stop being a Christian because of the crap that other Christians have done, just as I'm not renouncing my Canadian citizenship because I don't always agree with the actions of all Canadians.
I asked you once, what more do you expect of anyone than to condemn past atrocities and to prevent future atrocities, and you didn't answer. Care to answer this time?
"There's a disconnect here that I can't seem to correct: "
The fault lies with you. You never bothered to ask me what I believed about any of these things. Rather, you insisted on telling me, and everyone else that I believed the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I do believe. In other words, you allowed your bigotry to cloud your judgement of me.
Another reason on the list why I love Thunderf00t. He doesn't just gather info off the web he goes out, and conducts his own studies. Kudos, kudos, and even more kudos.
and cheesy sentences like "Read the Malleus Maleficarum, if you dare", why not tell people to read ALL Christian works?
Oh, you don't want people to do that, because then they'd realize that Christianity has had many different concepts of "Justice" "Mercy" and "Compassion" and that the MAlleus Maleficarum is but ONE Christian document that does not represent all Christian views and doctrines.
You're just a sad disenfranchised demagogue who perverts history to suit your views.
historical facts reach a different conclusion. You are no better than a Christian who claims that Christianity has no dark side. Both are based on ignorance and biased research.
I also pointed out that most Christians realize the history of their religion and that a lot of terrible things where done in the name of God. So to use Guilt by Association to say that ALL Christians condone and perpetuate such behavior is sickening. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
ccp5150, you're a hypocrite because you criticize Christianity for the witch-hunts, but then go on to spread hysteria, claiming that all Christians want to pillage and rape. Funny, because last time I checked, the witch-hunts were promoted by statements EXACTLY like that.
Misquoting the bible or ascribing false authorship is misleading, but not hypocritical. Do you even know what the word means?
The history of Christianity has both good and bad, and only people who pick-and-choose their
it is a criticism of too much power unquestionably given to the wrong people and of false leaders and not of religion itself.
I also hate your fear propaganda. It's sentences like "But if you want to know what christians REALLY want to do with you and your family, read the Malleus" that started mass hysteria like the witch hunts. Rather ironic that you criticize the Christians for doing that, yet you use exactly the same rhetoric they used for your own purposes.
lengths to stop all the hypocrisy of the Middle Ages and to establish more moral rules (either based on the Bible or secular sources). But really, it was thanks to both theists and atheists that we no longer have to worry about looters and pillagers (which were by no means restricted to Christianity).
As for your criticism of modern Christians, I agree wholeheartedly that religious leaders just take advantage of people in need. But this hardly applies to the majority of Christians. If anything
More nonsense. A number of Christians stood up against the injustices of the Middle Ages and modern Christians abhor what was done in the name of Christ. Yet very few advocate not even teaching/learning about it. All this talk about secular government stopping Christians from looting and pillaging is the most imbecilic thing I have read about. Sorry, but a number of philosophers (some Christians, others theists, others atheist) and social activists have over the ages undergone great
-_- You have to be kidding me. None of those actions perpetrated by Christians are mentioned in the Bible, much less condoned by Christ (whom they are supposed to follow).
Honestly, what these torture devises were a perversion of social justice and have NOTHING to do with Christian doctrine (as set forth by the bible) or what modern Christians believe. You're just using Guilt by Association to accuse ALL Christians for these terrible crimes. That's not fair to a lot of people.
No, it was no the "how to" of Christian justice, it merely caught on because it was published at the time of the Printing Press, allowing it to be one of the first majorly distributed books. Witch Hysteria wasn't only fueled by Christian fervor, but also greed (kill people to your favor), Pagan folklore (ancient tells of spirits and demons), and non-religious prejudices against groups such as widows, purely social in their origin (the Bible says to protect widows).
changes that occurred later on were also fueled by Christians who had a theological disagreements with the way the Church was handling things. As I've said, religion really isn't good or bad, it just depends on a number of factors.
Lastly, simply because it was popular in the 13th Century doesn't mean that modern Christians agree with it -_-
The bible says lots of things. Like you can sell your daughter in to slavery, that you should stone anyone that is a disobediant man woman or child, that you should stone people who work on the sabbath, that you shouldn't grow two kinds of crops in the same field, you can't wear natural fibers with manmade ones, that bird blood is a cure for lepers, and that throwing your children against rocks will bring you joy.
Why not recruit some people around the country to help with this? I'd be willing to take time and resources to help this survey. I live in the south and I'm sure the results would be significantly different.
JackHDiamond Yes, he has an english accent..and doesn't that sound much more intelligent than the hick/hillbilly/southern accents the fundies/creationists usually have? There are lots of other things that make the creationists sound like idiots, but their accents just add to the idiot impression they give. Thunderf00t IS intelligent and SOUNDS intelligent, on the other hand.: )
I think it's pathetic that people judge intelligence based off of your accent as much as they do.
On a different note, I think it would be very interesting to see this study done on a much larger scale to see if the trend continues. Too bad I'm not in my statistics class anymore or this would have been a perfect project.
the sooner this blight on humanity is over the better, religion is a mass form of crowd control used by corrupt people to make a shit load of cash,and it worked too,you turn up every sunday and just give your money to these scammers, i suppose you sort of deserve it for being such fools in the first place and swallowing all the crap they feed you without doing any research of your own. sheep need leading i suppose
are being protected by a majority religion. If it was as you said, wouldn't Nazism be a majority too? Yes, Christian Identity does exist amongst Nazis, but most favor either paganism or no religion at all.
Furthermore, if a "few brief passages" are overlooked, how can you call yourself a follower of Christ, if you pick-and-choose what to follow? This goes against Jesus' teachings that everything he taught ought to be followed.
-Sigh- the Malleus Maleficarum was written in 1486 and I have yet to hear any Christian modern Christian use it as a basis for Christianity. Heck, even witch hunting fell out of favor in America after the Salem Witch Trails.
The Holocaust was caused by MANY factors, including the economic tensions brought by the Treaty of Versailles and cultural tensions, present anywhere, regardless of religion (take Darfur as an example).
I also find it ridiculous that you say that Nazis, a minority
As far as it's concerned, Christianity revolves around following the example of Jesus Christ. Nowhere is it recorded that Jesus favored bigotry or hate, and the Malleus Maleficarum fell out of favor ages ago and even got criticized by Christians.
And, again, the real institution that has much blood on its hands are governments, as the major and bloodiest wars (Civil War, WWI and WII) were secular in nature.
Do you know something else that's not recorded in c ontemporary and genuine egyptian, greek, roman or hebrew chronicles OR in "The Dead Sea Scrolls"? Err..that any "Jesus Christ" even ever lived...Ouch...that's a bit of a "bummer" for a religion which calls itself CHRISTianity, hehe. By the way, archaeologists have among lots of other things uncovered that there WAS NO NAZARETH during the years "Jesus" supposedly lived there. The town was founded a long time afterwards,when they were writing,heh
And don't bother to mention Flavius or Tacitus. The entry in Flavius was made by bishop Eusebius at NIcea, and Tacitus simply said that "there were christians in Rome". For ALL the "other" self-proclaimed messiases at the time we have hundreds of contemporary sources describing them and their actions, for "Jesus" there is really nothing at all. : )
You do realize that the Dead Sea Scrolls only involve Old Testament documents and secular sources of the time BEFORE Jesus was even born. Of course Jesus wasn't mentioned among them.
Also, there is no historical evidence for or against the existance of Nazareth, apparently a small town.
Also, I'm not a Christian so I don't really care either way.
Kirbie. Wrong! Fail!!! the scrolls cover a time-span from way before the "Jesus"-myth until a long time after the mythical hero supposedly was crucified. And they wrote about everything,also current events, not just Torah-crap. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about! : )
Oh great, I'm supposed to trust some guy that thinks using "fail" is a good idea. In furthering my inquiry on the Dead Scrolls, I have found no evidence to indicate that they even talk about the time concerning Jesus! The nearest they come is to 80 years BEFORE Jesus was supposedly born.
No source that I got indicated that these scrolls concerned ANYTHING about the time that Jesus lived. Yes, the documents to concern a variety of documents (don't call the Torah crap, it is valuable historical
document that allows us to understand the sentiments of the Jewish community and what they believed in in, and provides us with a source of past ethical values. As a history lover, the depreciation of historical findings simply because of their religious context is absurd) that aren't related to the Torah, but they deal with Pre-Christian times and the Qumran's affairs.
Of course, I may be missing something so if you provide a legitimate source, I'd be happy to look into it.
What point? As far as I can tell, Winterstellar was saying that the Dead Sea Scrolls disprove Jesus's existance because they never mentioned him. I then pointed out that the Dead Sea Scrolls don't mention Jesus because the oldest ones where made 80 years before Jesus as born. I then asked him to provide a legitimate source for his claims. Notice how he hasn't bothered to respond.
I'm from Norway in Scandinavia, and last sunday I went to a church just for fun to count how many people attended the service. Can you guess how many worshipers came to a reasonably large church? Eight-8 people came to listen to the lutheran state church minister. Haha, it's a bit different from America, right? I guess the churches are pretty full there still, but over here people don't give a s%¤t about christianity/religion anymore. And if you ask me, it's good riddance!: )
if you asked ,how many people believe in greed ,and money (subconsciously),you would get a lot higher result ,yeah people will say yeah i believe this or i believe that ,but ask ,about there finances ,and its a differant story
1. I'm no longer a Christian, but I do think that Christians shouldn't hate others, as shown by the Bible.
2. Yes, I am really 16, and I'm doing fine at school, I'm amongst the top students. I want to certainly pursue a higher education (neurology), and I have mostly A's and some B+'s. I also like science.
As for the Southern Policy, it was a mixed reaction to the liberal politics of the the 60's and the potential political powerhouse of disenfranchised whites.
wars actually go to mostly secular conflicts: The American Civil War (over the Union), WWI (over nationalism ) and WWII (over the economic effect of the Treaty of Versailles)
Christianity certainly led to such terrors as the Inquisition, but with the bad also came good, such as the preservation of texts through monasteries.
In this way, I think its safe to conclude that religion is neither good OR evil. Its the people that matter, and this applies to almost anything.
you were saying that the preservation of texts was a good thing that came from christianity, well, it happens anywhere there are texts to be preserved. so just that particular argument is. . . FAIL! :p
...It only applied to the Middle Ages, where monks played a crucial role in preserving texts. I realize that in other places of the world this does not apply, but were it not for monasteries, significant portions of European texts would be unknown.
Christian monks? Preserving important texts? Christian monks erased important texts to copy yet another copy of the psalms. We know this because nowadays we analyze the recycled paper and find that Christian monks had erased say... unprecedented early mathematical proofs by Archimedes. Fortunately they preserved those psalms.
This was one instance, and we don't know how often or widespread the practice is, though I'd venture to say it was a rare occurence since the "erasing" of that time is rather poor.
I think you're a bit wrong here. I agree with the general context that morality exists outside of religion, but religion has had an active influence in both good and bad. For example, religion directly ifluenced the passive resistance of Gandhi, but also fueled the traditional ideas of Fascists.
In this way, decency CAN come WITH religion and even be influenced by it. Or, as you point out, lead to much hate. Christianity also has a low death tally in comparison to the three huge wars costly
Well, you're speaking from an American perspective, and admittedly, in the US, you've got some more serious problems as it pertains to the far right. However, as KandY is pointing out to you, you're ignoring the mainstream liberal churches, and you're really looking at things from a narrow perspective.
You see, I'm from Canada (aka sovient canuckistan) and here, we have gay marriage courtesy of MCC, because they had the courage to force the hand of our secular government.
Are there hate groups? Yes, I don't deny that they exist. The problem is that they've sadly been allowed to become the voice of the Christian community, which is deplorable, since, as KandY pointed out, they don't represent the majority of Christians.
It's just that Christians performing homosexual marriages, opening up drug rehab clinics, providing subsidized child care, taking on the problems of gangs in their communities etc. don't make the headlines.
well it's great that you live in canada, which is apparently a better place to live than your immediate southern neighbor, we have to deal with people like the "westboro baptist church" :p
You know, about the Westboro (sp?) Church, I really hate the attention we give them. That's their whole point. I've read Phelps quotes before, he enjoys the publicity. Don't give the bastard what he wants >_>
The problem is, in the south (where I unfortunately am stuck) their opinion isn't too far from the public christian opinion (or at least the Baptist opinion, as they are the biggest sect of christianity in the areas around me)
don't get me wrong, I'm in about the least redneck/hillbilly part of the south, (florida) but, religiously, it's still pretty bad here.
Yeah, I'm well aware of the South's views, but I remember reading a statistic that most Christians do believe in evolution and science, and that fundamentalism is losing the battle, especially amongst young people.
Anyway, I really just think that eventually all of these outdated religious views will sputter out sooner or later, just like every other religious view which wasn't able to meet the spiritual demands of a new age.
"The problem is, in the south (where I unfortunately am stuck) their opinion isn't too far from the public christian opinion"
Ah, but have you ever stopped to ask why it's the public Christian opinion in the south, or for that matter, why it's not the public Christian opinion in the North?
"don't get me wrong, I'm in about the least redneck/hillbilly part of the south, (florida)"
Must be the positive influence of all those snow birds. ;)
No, we're good people because of the society we live in, and the society we live in is in very many ways (more than you'd care to admit) influenced by the institution which you continue to refer to as evil. Yes, that institution has committed wrongs, but what makes the church different from something like the KKK is that unlike the KKK, the church has evolved into something better, and continues to evolve. This happens because as an institution, the church is founded on hope, not hate.
and the large number of religiously conservative states in the the U.S. (but not a population majority) that these strains of thought have considerable political power.
Even then, most Christians who favor what you just describes are just good people corrupted by bad leaders and ignorance. Atheism doesn't have to be based on logic and reason, and because education is still a pain in rural places, chances are that ignorance would previal, religion or not.
*Say some Christians. A majority of Christians are moderate or liberal in their views, and are pretty accepting. In fact, most people don't even hate gays. If you look at anti-gay marriage propaganda, they use children as red herrings, not actual hate.
Most Christians have dropped traditional interpretations of the BIble and do not see a conflict between science and religion (this occured in the late 19th century, mind you).
I really don't have that much of a problem with religious people in general, only when they ignore reality in place of faith, as most fundamentalists, and young earth creationsists do.
Finally a reasonable comment. Same here, and even if someone is a fundamentalist, chances are its because they are ignorant and have never had the same opportunities that someone living in a city had. The only real problem I have with religion in general are those Creationist leaders that continue to misguide their followers just to take advantage of what they have. Usually fundamentalists are very poor, and they spend their money where their corrupt pastor tells them too =\
You also leave out the good that religion has done, such as fueling the abolitionist crusade in America and even leading to the liberation of Latin American countries (forgot the name of the pope who directly acted to free Mexico).
Anyway, as far as it goes, religion can go both ways, and to say that it's purely evil is narrowminded and very misleading, as you pick-and-choose your historical information.
Again, what's with the historical dishonesty. Why cover up the fact that a large number of Jews were protected by the Catholic church, some even being given sanctuary in the Vatican itself?
I also still see that you're being a cowardly immature individual who's afraid to see reality as it is and let go of his anger and hatred. Why can't you admit that killing people because they are religious is wrong?
Not exactly a good sample size, but interesting none the less. Perhaps when the weather is more accommodating for this type of research, a larger and more widespread sample can be gotten.
You see, I know why you are incapable of admitting that 1772 people killed in one city in a 2 month period was an atrocity and wrong. You can't admit it was wrong because you are a coward! You're too cowardly to recognize the problems of the world and deal with them as an adult. Instead, you try to escape them by pretending that the answer to all the worlds problem lies in atheism. Well, I have news for you, atheism doesn't have that kind of power.
Atheism cannot prevent atrocities. Neither can pure and simple rationality. Lennon's Imagine is nothing but a childish pipe dream. You don't solve the worlds problems by eliminating differences, but accepting differences is a huge start. That means that if you want to continue to be an atheist, and still make the world a better place, you're going to have to let go of your anger and hatred which you've taken out on me, and probably many others.
most atheists are not full of anger and hatred, I don't believe the same can be said for people that believe that their "all powerful creator" is sending anyone who doesn't think like them to a fiery pit for all eternity, which is pretty much the cruelest punishment you could ever imagine according to the bible (I could think of more gruesome things to do but. . . . ) and knew that he was going to send them there before he even created them. . .
Now you see, this is exactly my problem with this anti-theistic viewpoint. On the one hand, you say atheists are good people who don't hate, but then you follow it up with a very judgmental statement.
The point is, I don't feel the love, acceptance, or even tolerance when you say things like this. You are judging me based on the actions of other people, not on my own actions, and thats prejudice, which is a form of hatred.
When I was a Jew I hated waking up early on Saturdays, walking to the Shul, and praying for 4 hours. When I became an Atheist and realized that I like sleeping in much better.
shinokiba 4 months ago
Slight problem with the wording (and yes I know I'm making a comment about an almost two year old vid LOL), but as an Atheist, I have no belief in god/s, but churches do exist, so the last question is somewhat of a non-sequitur.
TMTours 4 months ago
Dude, you should put some jam on your shoes and invite your trousers down for tea. Those slacks are positively Islamic XD
DaToNyOyO 5 months ago in playlist More videos from Thunderf00t
has anyone ever done anything like this?Im wondering because i have to do a project about "the factors that influnce the religious practice in christian teenagers.I have to do it in a survey and im stumped as to A(what to ask and B)where to find results etc
eoghan147 6 months ago
If you haven't already done this, or will do it again, I would also participate (for a few voices from Austria... ;) )
thargor2k 8 months ago
So the question is: Do those who are fearful of the future go to church or does the church create people who are fearful of the future? Or perhaps a mixture of both?
constantresearcher34 8 months ago
jesus main message was to not go to church as they will all eventually become corrupt and self serving
YoJimBoHugabaJoe 10 months ago
Comment removed
BranislavDJ 1 year ago
@BranislavDJ Woohoo! Furries rock =P
killa432546 11 months ago
thunderfoot=dedication.
stesta90 1 year ago 12
Funny how you assumed that everyone was a theist. You should have had something on the last question, like N/A.
PALOMNYK 1 year ago
@PALOMNYK he didnt, even if they were an athiest, they would still had to wonder, becuz no1 know
TheBeeFart 1 year ago
You will have to include more questions and options for the worldwide survey. What are Atheists going to answer? They will have to leave the last question blank or answer at random, which would drop them out of the statistics.
kaoruscatfish 1 year ago
Please let me know if you need any help gathering surveys from my area!
Poleschs 1 year ago
some japanese temples takes prayers by text messaging =P
timonix2 1 year ago
It is acceptable to collape categories to increase your statistical power. For example, for your outcome variable "worry," you can combine "very and extremely" into a single category. Like wise you could collapse your 5 or so church variable into three: never, sometimes, regularly. This is done routinely with ordinal measures obtained from survey data. Just make sure your collaposed data make "biologic sense" and that you disclose that you did this. we do this all the time in public health.
mchimonas 1 year ago
I think you need 1400 samples, 200 on each day of the week, to get rid of a day of the week effect on the answers. Might be an interesting addition.
dds1043 1 year ago
@ kaitlyncam your right, being a christian does not mean you have to go to church and people who think that are idiots but the good thing in going is growing in your own personal walk with god
1993bret 1 year ago
@1993bret Bible suggests you are in fellowship with other Christians ( as in Hebrews 10:25 ). Of course, there might be different ways to do that today. I suspected most churches were corrupt, myself.
OptimisticCynic715 1 year ago
Great work Thunderf00t! It has been my experience that most who call themselves Christian,are cultural Christians,that is to say,in name only.
BANANADAIQURI 1 year ago
I'd be in. I'm in Western Pennsylvania and my background is in sociology. That's not SPSS you're using, is it?
stizzorm 1 year ago
Seeing how much people who visit Carl Sagan's memorial believe is like seeing how much people who visit the creationist museum believe in creationism. Still, it's good work.
justforflag2 1 year ago
@justforflag2
What? Creationist museums!? The US never ceases to amaze me.
piip4 1 year ago
@piip4
Mah braen hurtz. Even thinking about it.
justforflag2 1 year ago
refering to the description "the majority thought that i was 'selling religion'." - i think that may be because only theists tend to doorknock, not saying you were, but there is probably a correlation between those. they probably made a link between them.
daemonowner 1 year ago
I'm guessing this is in or around Ithaca.
KingMacintosh 1 year ago
'are you worried about the future?' Isn't that a bit highly subjective. For one that could mean the fate of the universe while for another it could mean getting back home in time for football.
ASKaPHYSICIST 1 year ago
@AngeniAnezka1
I'm getting suspicous your account is for trolling, scams, advertising, or some other nefarious purpose.
Rule #30 There are no girls on the Internet.
BlueBerryWizard 1 year ago
@AngeniAnezka1
You again... stop being a man parasite, develop some integrity, and be willing to work for a good life and you could actually find yourself a caring mate. Such a shame... you should realize that any man of decency would not allow themselves to be used by someone like you. A real loving relationship requires both partners to treat each other right.
BlueBerryWizard 1 year ago
You could've designed a better study even with such a small sample. Your fourth question is difficult to understand and an atheist has trouble responding to this, which explains respondents' hesitation. Report results as a histogram, not as "probabilities", as your respondents were not a random process. Estimate and report uncertainty due to small sample size. Adjust for selection bias. Do not "normalize"; instead, sample from your data s.t. age and gender groups have equal counts, & bootstrap.
nobodyatlocalhost 1 year ago
Your survey had a flaw that would cause some people to pause at that last question. An obvious option that should have been included in the relationship with their god and church is that neither is of any importance what so ever because they do not believe in a mythical being.
MsMommaRose 1 year ago
most of them are prob ceo's
ChessClubMusic 1 year ago
i have never been to church in my life and i know only one person that does at all! the author is surprised that 50% never go to church..?! i am much more surprised that even 50% (in the usa) do!!! xD
(i am from former east-germany where >80% consider themselves atheists ;-)
ToniPony 1 year ago
This "survey" was just silly. Does TF really think he can get the solid truth out of this? Did he take in the possibility that people lied? Were iffy? Bored? Wanted to humor him? Thought it interesting? Were just curious? Even read it?
4:30- HA,HA,HA!!! Of course people "were stopped cold and took a long pause for thought' on the last question. Could it be because it was the longest than the first ones? Silly atheists!! You always make me laugh!!
ZebrasFirst 1 year ago
How can 474 people not like this video? Does the truth hurt that bad?
socialgarbage2 1 year ago
this looks interesting, but I can't understand what he's saying . . . it needs to be re-edited with clearer audio
kentkersey 1 year ago
lol, yeah his pants are pretty short. wheres the flood tf00t? lol jk
Mattm1986 2 years ago
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Osborne4Life 2 years ago
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holio84 2 years ago
thunderf00t.. this sample is WAY too flawed to make ANY conclusions.
yureeka 2 years ago 2
a better question would be if they knew if they were going to heaven when they die. Their life in eternity could depend on that very question.
MomandEmily 2 years ago
I can understand why the last question took longer for people to answer. It's akin to asking "when did you stop beating your wife?" You need to have a choice for people that have no relationship with God whatsoever. Personally, I lost his phone number and he hasn't called me back yet. I hope you consider this possibility for your next survey. Otherwise, I love your channel!
cracksmoak 2 years ago
You're only using Christianity as a label, but not considering that they're not active participants of the faith.
TsShakezoola 2 years ago
Statistics aren't there to prove but to show possible patterns.
I do agree on "Going to church does not make anyone a Christian". A lot of people do it just because of their cultural upbringing not belief. To stop behaving like the whole tribe does is often a social suicide.
x86freak 2 years ago
Statistics also shows that Christians divorce more than Atheists do.
a1mint 2 years ago 93
@a1mint that's because atheists don't believe in love.
ASKaPHYSICIST 1 year ago
@ASKaPHYSICIST What the hell kind of stupid generalization is that? "Don't believe in love". Rriigghhtt.... I suppose all the quacks involved in religious persecutions in history all "believed in love". You have any idea how stupid your statement is?
a1mint 1 year ago
@a1mint it was a joke.
ASKaPHYSICIST 1 year ago
@a1mint Aren't there more Christians than Atheists?
Elythawen 1 year ago
@Elythawen And Christians are on the decline. We have public school which spares our children from brainwashing and indoctrination. Atheist divorce less than Christians. Christians subscribe to a doctrine that includes murder, rape, and slavery.
But I don't think Christians are all bad. Most have good intentions and are good people. Most Atheists also have good intentions and are also good people.
But if you're going to measure them up, Christians would lose.
a1mint 1 year ago
Great idea about having a collaborative effort to gather more data.
Love your videos TF!
LAnonHubbard 2 years ago 2
Good job Tfoot, its a small cross section of society only and limited to north-eastern america's population situation, but its a start, and if these answers are anything to go by when multiplied by x1mil and they still hold similar patterns, that already produces a lot of "extremely worried" regular church goers.
While Christianity is no longer the most aggressive, "convert or destroy" type of religion anymore, its still good to know where we stand when it comes to down a showdown
hardtogetnewname 2 years ago
I'm surprised nobody stole his camera
YahyaSnow 2 years ago 4
the funny thing is that 100 % of the people on this planet are going to die
XceptionalXistence 2 years ago 91
LOL!
"Dead" right, and more than 6 billion will die within the next 100 years!
jmcr71795 2 years ago
@jmcr71795
7 billion in 65 years. (more or less the world average life expectancy).
saintpine 2 years ago
@XceptionalXistence Exept Chuck Norris :)
TheJackassManiacs 1 year ago
@XceptionalXistence "100 % of the people on this planet are going to die "
Not Ray Kurzweil.
OptimisticCynic715 1 year ago
@XceptionalXistence um no. the complete halt of the effects of ageing will be realistically reachable within the next 50 years.
volound 1 year ago
@XceptionalXistence It's a good thing too or we'd run out of room for everyone.
jalbroven91 1 year ago
@XceptionalXistence Very true, but their shared knowledge will not die with them.
ThElitE 1 year ago
@XceptionalXistence Not necessarily, technology may come up with an answer to that flaw of biology before this gen kicks the bucket.
FoxKnightJ07 10 months ago
Hello Thunderfoot, I would like to make note that your survey's last question is missing a valueable option (no personal connection with god or religious group)
I know I would have to ask the survey's author if I could write in neither are important.
Mithrandirself 2 years ago
I went to Church once to steal the lead of its roof. Of course I asked forgiveness from God later so its all squared away.
BiodegradeableMan 2 years ago 4
How many people were in this sample of data?
How wide an area was used to gather data for this sample?
I need to see if we can really draw on these conclusions.
CrazyOFromSA 2 years ago
He mentioned both of those elements in the video.
stenchinator 2 years ago
Cool, thanks. Statistician so the data is important to me.
CrazyOFromSA 2 years ago
it's at least usually a step in the right direction.
kallefredrikson 2 years ago
dont get me wrong, i am in no way, shape or form endorsing any of the christian religions. the thing about them is that they've only been around for about 2000 years. what i'm saying is that systemized cruelty is a inherently human trait and has a way longer history than just the abrahamic or even any religions. as a matter of fact, i think its a relief that a large portion of the civilized worl have learned its all just bogus.
kallefredrikson 2 years ago
ill help you here in seattle if you want.
CamronJLB 2 years ago
now now, lets be careful with what we are preaching here. i doubt christianity has a worse record for an institution than, per say, the huns, the berzerkers or even the roman empire (permitting for your very low standards for what constitutes an institution)
kallefredrikson 2 years ago
You're right that Leviticus does, twice, say that to lie with a man as with a woman is "toh'ebah". The question is, do you know what the Hebrew word "toh'ebah" means? Essentially, a "toh'ebah" is a behaviour which other people engage in, but which they Jews do not engage in for more often than not, ritual or cultural reasons.
plutorip 2 years ago
It's only 'clear' in some places when when assumes that literalism is the only valid interpretation. However, there's no reason to believe that literalism is the only valid interpretation, and many to believe that it's not the only valid interpretation.
Take the James passage you cite. Do you know which Christian rites that passage is most often associated with? Do you know why it's associated with those rites?
plutorip 2 years ago
Rather poor sample size, so I take the results with large amounts of salt.
Nice effort, none the less. I look forward to seeing results of a bigger study.
ZarlanTheGreen 2 years ago
"Pluto, if your church truly ignores all the hatred and bigotry in your bible, if your church offers succor and support for those other christians rail against, if your church truly rejects christianity's unbroken history of rape, torture and murder and instead chooses to do what's right, why bother to be christians at all?"
Because the message of Christ is NOT that we should hate, rape, torture and murder. So, there's no reason why we cannot be Christians and hate all those things.
plutorip 2 years ago
"I don't buy for a second that christianity really allows for what you believe, but knowing you come from Canada makes it a lot easier to believe your church is not at all typical christian."
Wow! American-centric views at all? So, because American inspired fundamentalists churches don't allow for something, then it's not typically Christian? Forget about mainstream churches (including, btw RC and orthodox churches). They don't count as 'typical Christian churches'.
plutorip 2 years ago
CARL SAGAN <33333333333
my hero. :)
123sidsid 2 years ago
I think a personal relationship with God is more important....
What's this survey trying to say, overall?
xlovelylittlelucyx 2 years ago
The only thing I can see as wrong is there is no option for I don't believe in a god making the 4 and 5 questions irrelevant.
MistressArte 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Jesus Christ has returned. I AM.
IAMJESUSmovie 2 years ago
I just love how Thunderf00t loves to timelapse everything. The data entry and script writing sequences were very fascinating.
zhitgeist 2 years ago
Hey man, I live in Memphis, Tennessee and just wanted to share this. Memphis churches have enough seating capacity to hold almost all of our population. The top 3 churches seat a total of 24,000 and the top 10 seat around 50,000.
google "church memphis" and dig that map. It;s astonishing
Did you ever think of soliciting people all over the US to do this survey. It's interesting.
futureprimitive 2 years ago
Were people asked whether they are religious or Christian before they did the survey? In the lovely area where you live, I doubt that general estimates of 85%Christianity are accurate. (I used to live there so I recognize downtown.) What other town needs the National Guard to keep order for the annual library book sale?
It would be a laugh to add questions about biblical passages. One poll years ago indicated that 15% of Americans think Joan of Arc was Noah's wife. I wish I were joking!
scientiaarsvita1 2 years ago
hooray for america's hat!!
aqwiz 2 years ago
Well, what you don't understand is that you're reasons for believing that bigotry is mandated are based on a literal interpretation of the Bible. My Church does not hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible, but rather to a historical interpretation of the Bible. It means that we seek to understand what the Bible was actually condemning in, say, the passages believed to be about homosexuality.
plutorip 2 years ago
That means we have to understand about the society which wrote those passages, understand about the societies which translated the passages and the languages from which they were translated.
plutorip 2 years ago
"But when you defend the horrors of the bible and those who applied, and continue to apply, those horrors, you must be willing to accept concomitant responsibility."
Here's what you in your hatred fail to see. I don't DEFEND those horrors. I ACKNOWLEDGE them and I CONDEMN them. What I don't do is misrepresent them (which you have done) or assume that everything about Christianity is bad. Christianity's history is not significantly different from anyone else's history.
plutorip 2 years ago
To believe that the world was wonderful, with no atrocities being committed until Christianity came along, and then that with the birth of Christianity came all these atrocities, which then stopped once people started to abandon Christianity is absurd! History doesn't support it. Atrocities existed before Christianity, and atrocities continue to occur in atheistic states. I think this speaks to the nature of mankind. No matter what institution is in place, people will commit atrocities.
plutorip 2 years ago
"It's not, and never has been, about what YOU believe"
BULLSHIT! If it was never about what I believed, then why, time and time again, did you knowingly LIE about what I believed? Why did you time and time again claim that I supported such things?
You claim it's about an INSTITUTION which I support, yet you know NOTHING about the INSTITUTION which I support. You see, I don't support the fictional "institution of every frickin' church which has ever existed throughout all history".
plutorip 2 years ago
I support a SPECIFIC CHURCH, which amongst other things, CONDEMNS the actions which you continue to raise. I'm not going to stop being a Christian because of the crap that other Christians have done, just as I'm not renouncing my Canadian citizenship because I don't always agree with the actions of all Canadians.
I asked you once, what more do you expect of anyone than to condemn past atrocities and to prevent future atrocities, and you didn't answer. Care to answer this time?
plutorip 2 years ago
"There's a disconnect here that I can't seem to correct: "
The fault lies with you. You never bothered to ask me what I believed about any of these things. Rather, you insisted on telling me, and everyone else that I believed the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I do believe. In other words, you allowed your bigotry to cloud your judgement of me.
plutorip 2 years ago
Another reason on the list why I love Thunderf00t. He doesn't just gather info off the web he goes out, and conducts his own studies. Kudos, kudos, and even more kudos.
Hritzness 2 years ago
and cheesy sentences like "Read the Malleus Maleficarum, if you dare", why not tell people to read ALL Christian works?
Oh, you don't want people to do that, because then they'd realize that Christianity has had many different concepts of "Justice" "Mercy" and "Compassion" and that the MAlleus Maleficarum is but ONE Christian document that does not represent all Christian views and doctrines.
You're just a sad disenfranchised demagogue who perverts history to suit your views.
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
historical facts reach a different conclusion. You are no better than a Christian who claims that Christianity has no dark side. Both are based on ignorance and biased research.
I also pointed out that most Christians realize the history of their religion and that a lot of terrible things where done in the name of God. So to use Guilt by Association to say that ALL Christians condone and perpetuate such behavior is sickening. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Instead of repeating imbecilic
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
ccp5150, you're a hypocrite because you criticize Christianity for the witch-hunts, but then go on to spread hysteria, claiming that all Christians want to pillage and rape. Funny, because last time I checked, the witch-hunts were promoted by statements EXACTLY like that.
Misquoting the bible or ascribing false authorship is misleading, but not hypocritical. Do you even know what the word means?
The history of Christianity has both good and bad, and only people who pick-and-choose their
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
it is a criticism of too much power unquestionably given to the wrong people and of false leaders and not of religion itself.
I also hate your fear propaganda. It's sentences like "But if you want to know what christians REALLY want to do with you and your family, read the Malleus" that started mass hysteria like the witch hunts. Rather ironic that you criticize the Christians for doing that, yet you use exactly the same rhetoric they used for your own purposes.
You are a HYPOCRITE.
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
lengths to stop all the hypocrisy of the Middle Ages and to establish more moral rules (either based on the Bible or secular sources). But really, it was thanks to both theists and atheists that we no longer have to worry about looters and pillagers (which were by no means restricted to Christianity).
As for your criticism of modern Christians, I agree wholeheartedly that religious leaders just take advantage of people in need. But this hardly applies to the majority of Christians. If anything
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
More nonsense. A number of Christians stood up against the injustices of the Middle Ages and modern Christians abhor what was done in the name of Christ. Yet very few advocate not even teaching/learning about it. All this talk about secular government stopping Christians from looting and pillaging is the most imbecilic thing I have read about. Sorry, but a number of philosophers (some Christians, others theists, others atheist) and social activists have over the ages undergone great
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
-_- You have to be kidding me. None of those actions perpetrated by Christians are mentioned in the Bible, much less condoned by Christ (whom they are supposed to follow).
Honestly, what these torture devises were a perversion of social justice and have NOTHING to do with Christian doctrine (as set forth by the bible) or what modern Christians believe. You're just using Guilt by Association to accuse ALL Christians for these terrible crimes. That's not fair to a lot of people.
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
Don't forget about the chair and the stake.
Then there was the Iron Maiden.
Ah so many ways that Christians professed that they were "protecting" people.
sabertooth1980 2 years ago
No, it was no the "how to" of Christian justice, it merely caught on because it was published at the time of the Printing Press, allowing it to be one of the first majorly distributed books. Witch Hysteria wasn't only fueled by Christian fervor, but also greed (kill people to your favor), Pagan folklore (ancient tells of spirits and demons), and non-religious prejudices against groups such as widows, purely social in their origin (the Bible says to protect widows).
Also, a lot of the moral
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
changes that occurred later on were also fueled by Christians who had a theological disagreements with the way the Church was handling things. As I've said, religion really isn't good or bad, it just depends on a number of factors.
Lastly, simply because it was popular in the 13th Century doesn't mean that modern Christians agree with it -_-
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
The bible says lots of things. Like you can sell your daughter in to slavery, that you should stone anyone that is a disobediant man woman or child, that you should stone people who work on the sabbath, that you shouldn't grow two kinds of crops in the same field, you can't wear natural fibers with manmade ones, that bird blood is a cure for lepers, and that throwing your children against rocks will bring you joy.
sabertooth1980 2 years ago
Most people are intellectually lazy, spineless conformists. That's your answer & explanation.
Parapon3ra 2 years ago
Why not recruit some people around the country to help with this? I'd be willing to take time and resources to help this survey. I live in the south and I'm sure the results would be significantly different.
mynameisjeny 2 years ago
This is irrelevant, but I've been watching your videos for about 9 hours over the last 2 days, and I'm just now realizing that you have an accent.
JackHDiamond 2 years ago
JackHDiamond Yes, he has an english accent..and doesn't that sound much more intelligent than the hick/hillbilly/southern accents the fundies/creationists usually have? There are lots of other things that make the creationists sound like idiots, but their accents just add to the idiot impression they give. Thunderf00t IS intelligent and SOUNDS intelligent, on the other hand.: )
winterstellar 2 years ago
I think it's pathetic that people judge intelligence based off of your accent as much as they do.
On a different note, I think it would be very interesting to see this study done on a much larger scale to see if the trend continues. Too bad I'm not in my statistics class anymore or this would have been a perfect project.
chipmunksyndrome 2 years ago
Just *now*? Oy. You live in a small world don't you?
sabertooth1980 2 years ago
@sabertooth1980 infinitely small
JackHDiamond 2 years ago
Besides. Thunderf00t's accent is part of what makes him awesome.
sabertooth1980 2 years ago
Hey Thunderf00t, your pants are too short, or you are to tall ... ; )
Just telling you my observation. Thank you for your effort for doing this video!
elTMorales 2 years ago
the sooner this blight on humanity is over the better, religion is a mass form of crowd control used by corrupt people to make a shit load of cash,and it worked too,you turn up every sunday and just give your money to these scammers, i suppose you sort of deserve it for being such fools in the first place and swallowing all the crap they feed you without doing any research of your own. sheep need leading i suppose
furq2m8 2 years ago
great vid.
praise science!
btw what software are u using for your data analysis?
cappadinoceo 2 years ago
are being protected by a majority religion. If it was as you said, wouldn't Nazism be a majority too? Yes, Christian Identity does exist amongst Nazis, but most favor either paganism or no religion at all.
Furthermore, if a "few brief passages" are overlooked, how can you call yourself a follower of Christ, if you pick-and-choose what to follow? This goes against Jesus' teachings that everything he taught ought to be followed.
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
-Sigh- the Malleus Maleficarum was written in 1486 and I have yet to hear any Christian modern Christian use it as a basis for Christianity. Heck, even witch hunting fell out of favor in America after the Salem Witch Trails.
The Holocaust was caused by MANY factors, including the economic tensions brought by the Treaty of Versailles and cultural tensions, present anywhere, regardless of religion (take Darfur as an example).
I also find it ridiculous that you say that Nazis, a minority
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
OK, ccp5150, it's very late where I am, so I'm going to bed know..maybe I'll see y'all later! Cheers from me! : )
winterstellar 2 years ago
As far as it's concerned, Christianity revolves around following the example of Jesus Christ. Nowhere is it recorded that Jesus favored bigotry or hate, and the Malleus Maleficarum fell out of favor ages ago and even got criticized by Christians.
And, again, the real institution that has much blood on its hands are governments, as the major and bloodiest wars (Civil War, WWI and WII) were secular in nature.
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
Do you know something else that's not recorded in c ontemporary and genuine egyptian, greek, roman or hebrew chronicles OR in "The Dead Sea Scrolls"? Err..that any "Jesus Christ" even ever lived...Ouch...that's a bit of a "bummer" for a religion which calls itself CHRISTianity, hehe. By the way, archaeologists have among lots of other things uncovered that there WAS NO NAZARETH during the years "Jesus" supposedly lived there. The town was founded a long time afterwards,when they were writing,heh
winterstellar 2 years ago
And don't bother to mention Flavius or Tacitus. The entry in Flavius was made by bishop Eusebius at NIcea, and Tacitus simply said that "there were christians in Rome". For ALL the "other" self-proclaimed messiases at the time we have hundreds of contemporary sources describing them and their actions, for "Jesus" there is really nothing at all. : )
winterstellar 2 years ago
You do realize that the Dead Sea Scrolls only involve Old Testament documents and secular sources of the time BEFORE Jesus was even born. Of course Jesus wasn't mentioned among them.
Also, there is no historical evidence for or against the existance of Nazareth, apparently a small town.
Also, I'm not a Christian so I don't really care either way.
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
Kirbie. Wrong! Fail!!! the scrolls cover a time-span from way before the "Jesus"-myth until a long time after the mythical hero supposedly was crucified. And they wrote about everything,also current events, not just Torah-crap. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about! : )
winterstellar 2 years ago
Oh great, I'm supposed to trust some guy that thinks using "fail" is a good idea. In furthering my inquiry on the Dead Scrolls, I have found no evidence to indicate that they even talk about the time concerning Jesus! The nearest they come is to 80 years BEFORE Jesus was supposedly born.
No source that I got indicated that these scrolls concerned ANYTHING about the time that Jesus lived. Yes, the documents to concern a variety of documents (don't call the Torah crap, it is valuable historical
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
document that allows us to understand the sentiments of the Jewish community and what they believed in in, and provides us with a source of past ethical values. As a history lover, the depreciation of historical findings simply because of their religious context is absurd) that aren't related to the Torah, but they deal with Pre-Christian times and the Qumran's affairs.
Of course, I may be missing something so if you provide a legitimate source, I'd be happy to look into it.
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
What has this to do with anything he is talking about?
You're missing his point.
Chalmsloff 2 years ago
What point? As far as I can tell, Winterstellar was saying that the Dead Sea Scrolls disprove Jesus's existance because they never mentioned him. I then pointed out that the Dead Sea Scrolls don't mention Jesus because the oldest ones where made 80 years before Jesus as born. I then asked him to provide a legitimate source for his claims. Notice how he hasn't bothered to respond.
Now, explain. How did I miss his point?
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
I'm from Norway in Scandinavia, and last sunday I went to a church just for fun to count how many people attended the service. Can you guess how many worshipers came to a reasonably large church? Eight-8 people came to listen to the lutheran state church minister. Haha, it's a bit different from America, right? I guess the churches are pretty full there still, but over here people don't give a s%¤t about christianity/religion anymore. And if you ask me, it's good riddance!: )
winterstellar 2 years ago
if you asked ,how many people believe in greed ,and money (subconsciously),you would get a lot higher result ,yeah people will say yeah i believe this or i believe that ,but ask ,about there finances ,and its a differant story
kevrs2 2 years ago
@kevrs2 so throw in money with god?
nogod65 2 years ago
absolutely they are both intertwined and nasty
kevrs2 2 years ago
OK what is it with the white socks and oxford shoes,this is twice i have been distracted, in your vids ,is this subliminal
kevrs2 2 years ago
lets not forget the Iron Maiden!
aqwiz 2 years ago
To address the two posts:
1. I'm no longer a Christian, but I do think that Christians shouldn't hate others, as shown by the Bible.
2. Yes, I am really 16, and I'm doing fine at school, I'm amongst the top students. I want to certainly pursue a higher education (neurology), and I have mostly A's and some B+'s. I also like science.
As for the Southern Policy, it was a mixed reaction to the liberal politics of the the 60's and the potential political powerhouse of disenfranchised whites.
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
wars actually go to mostly secular conflicts: The American Civil War (over the Union), WWI (over nationalism ) and WWII (over the economic effect of the Treaty of Versailles)
Christianity certainly led to such terrors as the Inquisition, but with the bad also came good, such as the preservation of texts through monasteries.
In this way, I think its safe to conclude that religion is neither good OR evil. Its the people that matter, and this applies to almost anything.
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
all monasteries, and indeed all cities, colleges, and pretty much anywhere mankind congregates, preserve texts, argument fail.
aqwiz 2 years ago
...?
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
you were saying that the preservation of texts was a good thing that came from christianity, well, it happens anywhere there are texts to be preserved. so just that particular argument is. . . FAIL! :p
aqwiz 2 years ago
...It only applied to the Middle Ages, where monks played a crucial role in preserving texts. I realize that in other places of the world this does not apply, but were it not for monasteries, significant portions of European texts would be unknown.
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
Christian monks? Preserving important texts? Christian monks erased important texts to copy yet another copy of the psalms. We know this because nowadays we analyze the recycled paper and find that Christian monks had erased say... unprecedented early mathematical proofs by Archimedes. Fortunately they preserved those psalms.
maemorri 2 years ago
This was one instance, and we don't know how often or widespread the practice is, though I'd venture to say it was a rare occurence since the "erasing" of that time is rather poor.
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
I think you're a bit wrong here. I agree with the general context that morality exists outside of religion, but religion has had an active influence in both good and bad. For example, religion directly ifluenced the passive resistance of Gandhi, but also fueled the traditional ideas of Fascists.
In this way, decency CAN come WITH religion and even be influenced by it. Or, as you point out, lead to much hate. Christianity also has a low death tally in comparison to the three huge wars costly
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
Well, you're speaking from an American perspective, and admittedly, in the US, you've got some more serious problems as it pertains to the far right. However, as KandY is pointing out to you, you're ignoring the mainstream liberal churches, and you're really looking at things from a narrow perspective.
You see, I'm from Canada (aka sovient canuckistan) and here, we have gay marriage courtesy of MCC, because they had the courage to force the hand of our secular government.
plutorip 2 years ago
Are there hate groups? Yes, I don't deny that they exist. The problem is that they've sadly been allowed to become the voice of the Christian community, which is deplorable, since, as KandY pointed out, they don't represent the majority of Christians.
It's just that Christians performing homosexual marriages, opening up drug rehab clinics, providing subsidized child care, taking on the problems of gangs in their communities etc. don't make the headlines.
plutorip 2 years ago
well it's great that you live in canada, which is apparently a better place to live than your immediate southern neighbor, we have to deal with people like the "westboro baptist church" :p
aqwiz 2 years ago
You know, about the Westboro (sp?) Church, I really hate the attention we give them. That's their whole point. I've read Phelps quotes before, he enjoys the publicity. Don't give the bastard what he wants >_>
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
The problem is, in the south (where I unfortunately am stuck) their opinion isn't too far from the public christian opinion (or at least the Baptist opinion, as they are the biggest sect of christianity in the areas around me)
don't get me wrong, I'm in about the least redneck/hillbilly part of the south, (florida) but, religiously, it's still pretty bad here.
aqwiz 2 years ago
Yeah, I'm well aware of the South's views, but I remember reading a statistic that most Christians do believe in evolution and science, and that fundamentalism is losing the battle, especially amongst young people.
Anyway, I really just think that eventually all of these outdated religious views will sputter out sooner or later, just like every other religious view which wasn't able to meet the spiritual demands of a new age.
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
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"The problem is, in the south (where I unfortunately am stuck) their opinion isn't too far from the public christian opinion"
Ah, but have you ever stopped to ask why it's the public Christian opinion in the south, or for that matter, why it's not the public Christian opinion in the North?
"don't get me wrong, I'm in about the least redneck/hillbilly part of the south, (florida)"
Must be the positive influence of all those snow birds. ;)
plutorip 2 years ago
No, we're good people because of the society we live in, and the society we live in is in very many ways (more than you'd care to admit) influenced by the institution which you continue to refer to as evil. Yes, that institution has committed wrongs, but what makes the church different from something like the KKK is that unlike the KKK, the church has evolved into something better, and continues to evolve. This happens because as an institution, the church is founded on hope, not hate.
plutorip 2 years ago
and the large number of religiously conservative states in the the U.S. (but not a population majority) that these strains of thought have considerable political power.
Even then, most Christians who favor what you just describes are just good people corrupted by bad leaders and ignorance. Atheism doesn't have to be based on logic and reason, and because education is still a pain in rural places, chances are that ignorance would previal, religion or not.
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
*Say some Christians. A majority of Christians are moderate or liberal in their views, and are pretty accepting. In fact, most people don't even hate gays. If you look at anti-gay marriage propaganda, they use children as red herrings, not actual hate.
Most Christians have dropped traditional interpretations of the BIble and do not see a conflict between science and religion (this occured in the late 19th century, mind you).
It's only that thanks to Nixon's Southern Policy
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
I really don't have that much of a problem with religious people in general, only when they ignore reality in place of faith, as most fundamentalists, and young earth creationsists do.
aqwiz 2 years ago
Finally a reasonable comment. Same here, and even if someone is a fundamentalist, chances are its because they are ignorant and have never had the same opportunities that someone living in a city had. The only real problem I have with religion in general are those Creationist leaders that continue to misguide their followers just to take advantage of what they have. Usually fundamentalists are very poor, and they spend their money where their corrupt pastor tells them too =\
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
Thunderfoot rocking them highwaters..
He ready for noah's flood lmao
Q2IN2Y 2 years ago
Thunderfoot, you should ask if people believe in Hell.
chosetec 2 years ago
im sorry but its incompleet, not enough people and only one place that you did the survey, so... im slightly dissapointed
mauricevdkal 2 years ago
How cool was that to make a statistical anlysis of religion versus societal habits in front of a memorial to Carl Sagan? I applaud you thunderfoot.
jetmech90295 2 years ago
You also leave out the good that religion has done, such as fueling the abolitionist crusade in America and even leading to the liberation of Latin American countries (forgot the name of the pope who directly acted to free Mexico).
Anyway, as far as it goes, religion can go both ways, and to say that it's purely evil is narrowminded and very misleading, as you pick-and-choose your historical information.
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
*sorry, not a pope but priest that liberated Mexico.
KirbiesandYoshies 2 years ago
Again, what's with the historical dishonesty. Why cover up the fact that a large number of Jews were protected by the Catholic church, some even being given sanctuary in the Vatican itself?
I also still see that you're being a cowardly immature individual who's afraid to see reality as it is and let go of his anger and hatred. Why can't you admit that killing people because they are religious is wrong?
plutorip 2 years ago
I would have guessed the opposite, that women would be more into communal religious activity.
Zakdayak 2 years ago
Not exactly a good sample size, but interesting none the less. Perhaps when the weather is more accommodating for this type of research, a larger and more widespread sample can be gotten.
MasauFuku 2 years ago
You see, I know why you are incapable of admitting that 1772 people killed in one city in a 2 month period was an atrocity and wrong. You can't admit it was wrong because you are a coward! You're too cowardly to recognize the problems of the world and deal with them as an adult. Instead, you try to escape them by pretending that the answer to all the worlds problem lies in atheism. Well, I have news for you, atheism doesn't have that kind of power.
plutorip 2 years ago
Atheism cannot prevent atrocities. Neither can pure and simple rationality. Lennon's Imagine is nothing but a childish pipe dream. You don't solve the worlds problems by eliminating differences, but accepting differences is a huge start. That means that if you want to continue to be an atheist, and still make the world a better place, you're going to have to let go of your anger and hatred which you've taken out on me, and probably many others.
plutorip 2 years ago
most atheists are not full of anger and hatred, I don't believe the same can be said for people that believe that their "all powerful creator" is sending anyone who doesn't think like them to a fiery pit for all eternity, which is pretty much the cruelest punishment you could ever imagine according to the bible (I could think of more gruesome things to do but. . . . ) and knew that he was going to send them there before he even created them. . .
aqwiz 2 years ago
Now you see, this is exactly my problem with this anti-theistic viewpoint. On the one hand, you say atheists are good people who don't hate, but then you follow it up with a very judgmental statement.
The point is, I don't feel the love, acceptance, or even tolerance when you say things like this. You are judging me based on the actions of other people, not on my own actions, and thats prejudice, which is a form of hatred.
plutorip 2 years ago
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excuse me, I believe I said "people that believe that their "all powerful creator&qu