Twisted Blues (1965)

[lbjoshbal]

ive been listening to both jazz and blues since 2008 and i will never stop. shits so raw and has allota feeling. good song

[weskoki]

The camera is way to slow to catch his thumb.

[thenamesfrancisco]

me and my friend were stoned and found this song on page 420 of the realbook sure is twisted ;)

[LoveayElliaa26]

lól_Í_feÈl_sO_lòñÈlY_tÓDÀý

[wesm65]

Arthur Harper - forgotten bass legend!

[williamgdrew]

the Bass is bangin on this cut damn!!!!!!!

[kdheithaus]

i love the bass in this one

[fpadilla671]

damn what a finger banger

[kentsla]

4:17 i love this part its so simple but its sick with the changes underneath it!

[bmw0828]

Bass is really swing~!

[fourfinger451]

Damn straight

[daveb143]

Just goes to show you don't need a rack full of effects, whammy bar, mountains of amps and speakers to play like a God-like genius

[mackyouaccount]

@daveb143 Those things actually get in the way. All you need is a thumb possessed by the devil

[NintendoSinceBirth1]

@daveb143 damn right and you dont need to go on tour with 20 guitars one will do the trick

[XXXIIIRPM]

and now....... Mr. M... very very very nice~

[Not2commonofcaurse]

@XXXIIIRPM thery do the trade off seamlessly as a million birds in flight at sunset wow this is it

[XXXIIIRPM]

while Mr. Lovelace weaves through the set so beautifully...

[XXXIIIRPM]

aahhh, but then the piano takes a turn...

[XXXIIIRPM]

Wes is definitely great, but the bass makes this one a hit in my book~ (:Dc

[illnastic]

totally agree

[XXXIIIRPM]

cool

[meirrose]

wes is music.

[guitarfan8815]

amazing that he played all those licks with virtually nothing but his thumb...damn.. its a blurr on this video.. AMAZING

[krileym32]

a god among men

[hateaters]

I keep coming back for that bass solo

[dojomania]

Check out the charlie christian lick at 4:18-4:22. From one guitar god to another.

[jammasterlee]

he's one of the only guitarists who is not afraid to really swing. he plays really bluesy stuff but somehow doesn't sound cheesy. i love that.

[priapus56]

Sheer class!

[ConradAbbott]

dude...dude..seriously dude

[ectomy1235]

wes montgomery shits on all the famous guitarists today

[EriktheHermit]

I half-agree with you man - jazz is definitely the guitar that epitomizes talent. However, I still love Steve Howe and Jerry Garcia, two great guitarists - the former was in greatly influenced by Montgomery, among others.

[ectomy1235]

yeah those two are great as well steve howe and garcia that is

[symodiezel]

I agree

[ectomy1235]

good to see another agrees

[jyrsjrdfngfs]

man, look at his thumb MOVE! Wes is still one of the best

[LordOfTheBoard83]

It still sounds so modern and cool.

[godswiph]

i was just thinking that. this joint sounds hip for today's standards.

[BuckshotLaFunke]

Very good Mabern solo, together and restrained.

[linusjazz]

Great swinging playing on this fantastic tune!

[RoverDavis11]

this is some good stuff right here

[sighingbabieswork]

i love Arthur Harper Jr's solo

[MaddMan95]

Man!, That dude is one hell of a bass player!

[Shineforscales]

wes was amazing. my favorite jazz guitarist and pat metheny

[mrgone78]

Anyone who even considers comparing Django to Wes, or anything like like that is a total idiot and should keep their empty, mis-informed chatter confined to the back rooms of guitar shops, rather than bringing the 'argument' out in the REAL world. If the music is great, it will speak for itself.

[humhahop]

Certainly the best quartet ever seen in the story of jazz !

[NijelBoswell]

Wes Montgomery, A legend to Jazz guitarists, A master to Guitarists, and a man who paved the foundation for every Jazz musician that is willing.(Wes Montgomery was Self-Taught on guitar.)

[AlexGronstad]

im not into jazz! but this is cool!

[MarthaMartian]

Welcome to the world of jazz. Everyone can listen, or not. That's what is great about it. Not sure what I mean. But there ya go.

[facuac99]

What´s the name of the bassist?

[WSERRALHEIRO]

In the About This Video link, you can read the name: Arthur Harper Jr. Cheers!

[Tobi251]

I just can't find somebody who's better....he's the best jazz-guitarist of all time!!!

[syaowolf]

django reinhart

[taiokun]

hmm maybe

django is amazing, but still, Wes is also great. I guess they each have their separate talents that people like.

[MasterCollecter]

I think Wes was more solid and a pue player but Django with 2 fingers played like he had 4. It's really hard to compare Django but with 4 fingers he would have been right there; and I have nothing against Django. He had great ears, many notes and could play alot of things; great music.

[guitarman63mm]

Gypsy is an entirely different style of jazz.

Apples and oranges.

[MasterCollecter]

Pure Jazz I'll give you that; he's the most solid,and best octaves. You can't find anybody better? We all have our faveorites but you have to check out the best of Danny Gatton, Lenny Breau, Scotty Anderson, and Johny Smith. There are others too like Django, Jimy Bryant, Farlowe, Pass, and Christian. mastercollector

[Strange0ne]

from

G minor Up all mistkes

[Strange0ne]

I am curious to know why there is such hostility among such a knowlagable and articulate group of people,your debate clearly all stems from the same place "a love of Jazz" whatever that may be considered. But what is even more curious is that on a subject as "intelectual" as Jazz, there is such an ignorant undertone from everyone towards everyone else and their point of view? why cant u respect someones opinion and maybe learn from it considering you all seem to have a wide knowlage of Jazz

[campocat]

I like Soupy Sails but I'm not foistering it about.

I happen to like them also but this vid is all about Wes. I hate to mention this because people get to pidgeon hole me but I played with Sam Rivers and I'm about as straight ahead as you get. Point being is comparisons dumb down the art. It was a gig - that's all.

[MasterCollecter]

Good point I wish we all could stop comparing our faveorites and just enjy. And I'm as guilty as anybody. However would there still be a youtube? It seems like alot of people bring up about comparisons? mastercollector

[Crazyhumanpeople]

Same, I'm sick of all the people comparing...

[Crazyhumanpeople]

Love this song

[garyguitar]

Ditto that! You're talking apples and oranges. Some people adore apples, others detest them, I like to taste them all myself. Some days I like one more than the other--but I like them all...and understand why others have different tastes than me.

[Stratman549]

wow what an open-minded view garyguitar - seems rare nowadays! stratman549

[garyguitar]

I wish more musicians and civilians would listen outside their "box". "My guys better than your guy" mentality is sort of the "grown-up" version of my dad can beat up your dad. I dig Luther Perkins, Pat Martino, James Burton, Ray Flack, Howard Roberts, Robben Ford, George Van Eps, Joe Maphis, Chuck Berry, Roy Buchanan, Hank Garland, David Grissom and mannnny more....You can tell I grew up listening to '50's, 60's, 70's radio.

[Stratman549]

Couldn't agree more! people should just enjoy the music!

[Redford527]

Remember Liberal Arts education? That's what we're talking about here. A mind can't expand without being open. If it is music and it is good, make it part of your musical lexicon. As a bass player, I live (and sometimes make my living) by that. Thanks for the posting Extracelestial.

[Stratman549]

damn right!

[retrorex]

Check out the Soupy Sails/Clifford Brown clip on YouTube. Incidently, I saw Sam Rivers a couple of weeks ago at the grocery store.

[campocat]

I'm not sure where all this is going or coming from. I've played professionally all my life, and staying alive is first priority. Guy's that get caught up in there emotional diversions + illusions, musical math equations, or pride in not having to keep a day job, usually end up unknown and so does their music. That is not how music is made...

[campocat]

Avoiding the Point? He has got it all together in his head, too bad he can't live there. There is a wide world out here live it. What is the 2 chord in the key of F ?

[Strange0ne]

G minor :-)

[campocat]

Leave the pontifications for Phil Shapp. Do you compair you wife or mother to other women? If something is precious to you, don't degrace its lovelyness with anything else but respect. Everyone has worth no matter what they play.

[campocat]

John Hammond and Mike Bloomfield were friends and slightly older guys I looked up to. They introduced me to Buddy Guy, Gary Davis, Muddy Waters, John Hurt. That is where my roots are but at some point you have to go on. You just try to retain the gut-bucket feel and apply it to every thing you play. It is not different with jazz players.

[campocat]

When I was 23 we didn't have access to Son House or any other Delta blues Artist that music was not alowed on store shelves. We heard Hound Dog through Elvis. It came back to us from London in the form of the British invasion. The point of view you enjoy is taken from facts that have been altered with time.

I knew John Coltrane better than most delta blues artists but I met a few also in my time.

[mojogypsy]

Sweet!

[sometimesoonfan]

emo.

[Manitor]

WHAT?!?!?!?!?

[sometimesoonfan]

hahhaha..

[Manitor]

What the hell are you "hahhaha"ing? Wes Montgomery is the furthest thing from emo.

[sometimesoonfan]

if u think im serious than your an idiot. yeah sure...wes montgomery is emo, and jessica simpson is a man. hahaha...dumbass.

[campocat]

You couldn't guess? I play a couple of instruments but guitar is my primary for the last 45yrs. Okay I lie about my age. I put it all in my books,

'On good days it just bounces off' and others.

Playing is not something I like to do or want to do it is something I must do like breathing or saying your prayers. cheers... the cat

[kokonutz32]

let 'em have it, campo!!

[campocat]

You're right you don't get it. I've played with everyone in this video. We take music as serious as a heartattack. You are in my neighborhood.

[bradshawvincent]

hey campocat if youve played with all these cats your due serious respect! what is your instrument? and do you still play?

[caleb462]

Oh c'mon there are plenty of jazz players today who "have fun." To suggest otherwise is ridiculous... yes, a lot of jazz made today may be more self-conciously "artsy" than in days past, but I can guaranteee you that fun is still a big part of jazz.

[NicolaBenso]

Wow nobody plays like him!!!Wes is incredible!!!

[stevetheguitarman36]

check out this jazz guitar player! search DHT trio

[campocat]

Hey lets thank Extracelestial

now there is someone with skills

[Extracelestial]

Thank you, and you're welcome. People don't often thank the poster.

[campocat]

If you improvise you know how hard it is. But you can't lose sight if you don't communicate with your audience, it is sex for one, the cycle is not completed. A lot of musicians outside of Jazz posture, are boring and quite successful. Write in your own names here.......

Miles could turn his back because the audience loved him. Maybe he had to fart. Albert Collins walked out and played outside the club

[cdiaz55]

flatwound guitar strings,gut bass strings,calfskin drum heads! gotta love it!

[papaluvsu]

God bless you all.

[Deadfreeeak]

Who is the bass player ?

[Deadfreeeak]

Like budda!

[campocat]

That is a lot of Serious? The most disengenuous statement I have ever heard, but thank you for putting in retoric what I suspected. That nothing us oldtimers played matters, because we weren't serious in captials. It just warms the cockels of my underwear. Watching half my friends get shot,worked to death for chump change,drink themselves to death, or wind up on skid row is as serious as a heartattack.

[jfp457]

Dude, relax.. the commentor was AGREEING with you, albeit in a sarcastic way. I agree with you too. An American critic once reportedly dismissed Django Reinhardt as " a clown with a mandolin" (though who knows, the critic might have been taken out of context and may have added ", not that there's anything wrong with that") - 'cuz there isn't!! Wanna hear less serious, check out some gypsy jazz: if anything those folks are having TOO MUCH FUN..

[campocat]

You know, you can look at a lot of things here, but the thing that is most wonderful and is something I don't see in Jazz today is - they are having fun. It makes a difference and you can't fool the audience = not other musicians listening and drooling or nashing teeth but the average listener that wants to be entertained - yes we are all entertainers first and guitar jockies last. Wes loved what he was doing and it shows.

[NAFTALI2]

Because nowadays Jazz is SERIOUS ART. So jazz musicians are serious, and they look serious, and they think serious musical theory thoughts, and it doesn't matter if the public likes it, because the public is not hip enough to understand the seriousness of this very serious art which is played with the utmost seriousness. You think there might be a correlation between how serious jazz musicians take jazz and how jazz doesn't sound as good as it once did? You think?

[ectomy1235]

But hasn't jazz always had that vibe to it? the vibe that the audience arent hip enough for the music? like when jazz players turn their back on the audience and things like that. perhaps todays players are trying to ignore the audience and keep that vibe going like it was meant to be? im not sure, its just a thought

[NAFTALI2]

Nope, just since Miles Davis and John Coltrane. Louis Armstrong was, bottom line, just having a great time and hoping everyone else could have a great time. In the big band days, get everyone dancing. This is when the music was blues based. Even Charlie Parker was blues based--put some cool chords underneath the blues, but the blues is blues. That serious vibe cropped up as soon as jazz players stopped playing the blues.

[edcerc]

I love all the old time jazz masters but for me its all about coltrane. His legacy to me is what it means to be a good musician. He sacraficed the little commercial success he had to make trully great music dispite what others thought. But its always the blues at all levels, even Albert Ayler was playing the blues

[NAFTALI2]

Are you talking about the same John Coltrane that I am? He enjoyed great commercial success and tremendous critical acclaim. Also, I don't think we have the same definition of blues. My definition is--Kind of Blue, Freddie the Freeloader, Cannonball Adderley's solo. If your definition is Kind of Blue, Freddie, Coltrane's solo, then we're talking about two different things.

[edcerc]

as coltrane progressed he lost a lot of fans. His last group didnt enjoy nearly as much success as his more comercial recordings like my favorite things. And my definition of blues is son house the feel of the true blues. I mean even ornette who in my opinion is pretty tame was bluesier than most straight ahead dudes but to me coltrane and ayler were as bluesey as jazz can get.

[NAFTALI2]

Name the albums that didn't do well. Every time I go to the cd store there are rows of Coltrane and very few Jimmy Forrest or Lockjaw Davis. And if you could please, name names regarding your definition of blues. But you are saying that Coltrane sounds more bluesy than Cannonball Adderley. I got that, right?

[edcerc]

its not about whose bluesier. Jazz is allready an abstraction of the blues. When i think of the pure blues i think of charley patton or any of those early country blues guys. In jazz they were adding a whole new harmonic sense so in that sense to me coltrane is just playing an abstract blues.

[NAFTALI2]

Nice way of avoiding the whole point.

[edcerc]

Well i was more making a point than trying to answer you but if you must know I doubt albums like meditations and interstellar space were as commercially successfull as kind of blue or blue train. Any cd store probly has 100 blue train and Love Supreme and only few late recordings. Coltrane was always at the cutting edge of jazz experimentation and even Alice said that when he went "avant garde" a lot of people didnt apreciate it.

[NAFTALI2]

Again, I don't know where you buy cds, but there are quite a few Coltrane from ABC Impulse, so there's a long row of orange titles. Kind of Blue would be grouped with Miles Davis. Basically, anything Coltrane sells. Some sell more than others. A lot of people don't get into avante garde, me included. It's not because we don't know music or because we can't 'get' what's going on. I think it's because we do know music that we don't get into it.

[edcerc]

Im not talking about impulse in general im just talking about his second group with rashied ali. When i think of coltrane i think of avant garde cause his whole legacy to me was about getting freer and it drew him closer and closer to avant garde. Every record got more and more experimental and more controvercial. But he didnt care cause as a developing artist evolving your craft is more important than record sales.

[NAFTALI2]

Fortunately, Coltrane did this when he didn't have to worry about money as much as the regular jazz musician. This gets down to how you define artist. Is an artist someone every admires, or is an artist someone who can help, bring some degree of joy or comfort or insight to anyone listening. There isn't any question that jazz has disconnected from its audience. No one buys the records. Jazz stations have to guilt people into listening because it's art and you have to support the arts.

[edcerc]

Well part of the reason for that is the idealogy that jazz is this thing that happened between 1920 and 1959 and big labels will only market new jazz that is a copy of this period. I happen to buy a lot of jazz albums and i think there are people who are buying them its just more of an underground thing. People like Peter Brotzmann still play and release records and still have followings its just not mainstream

[NAFTALI2]

It's not a belief. People stopped buying the records. They just stopped. In the 80s Billboard dropped jazz as a category because the sales were so bad. But people buy the re-releases of Blue Note and Verve and Prestige--because that music is so darn good.

[edcerc]

Just cause most people havent heard of it doesnt mean that people arent making a living releasing independent jazz. Their is still good music being released for the people that are looking for it. All of those european improv guys survived just from putting out their own music out to niche audiences.

[NAFTALI2]

But don't you see something is wrong with that picture. Jazz used to sell millions. It made the record business. And those recording were magnificent in every way. Now, there's a local drummer in town who said that last year he sold more records than Wayne Shorter. And this makes sense to you? This is okay? To me it indicates that something is very very wrong in the world of jazz.

[edcerc]

I think that in terms of mainstream jazz your right but audiences are either close minded and unwilling to listen to unfirmiliar music. THe record companies and colleges have tried to stifle the growth of jazz but if you look their is great music. I saw Cecil Taylor a few months ago it was unreal. He probly gets paid loot to perform at a place like the blue note or the iridium. Those places are really expensive.

[NAFTALI2]

As I said earlier, they aren't close minded. Here's what's important about jazz--swing, and the blues. Take away those things and you get someone who always tells you their dreams. It gets boring fast, and it gets meaningless before it gets boring. I've seen people play avante garde. They get into it, but the crowd doesn't--now matter how much the three people there say you're really blowing. Cause you ain't.

[edcerc]

I dont know how many of these shows youve been to but people are very excited about this music. To me albert ayler is just as important as Bird. Coltrane knew it and he wanted to take his music to the next level its not about showing off.

[NAFTALI2]

Okay, I've been holding off asking this question. What levels? Name these levels. And how do you know who's playing at what level? What level was Wes playing at? Was his level higher or lower than Sonny Rollins? How do you know Coltrane's level was higher that Cannonball Adderley's? How do you know Phil Woods isn't higher than everyone else?

[edcerc]

Great jazz has always been about fresh concepts with respect to tradition. Guys like Charlie Parker and THelonious Monk were doing things that were avant garde for their time. To louis Armston bebop was nonsense and to miles ornette was nonsense. The idea that jazz has to be some ancient relic is nonsense. I know young people who play jazz this music is still alive it just needs people to take risks. It will never be the number one hit cause audiences dont care about art.

[NAFTALI2]

You don't know what levels you're talking about do you? Charlie Parker was playing fast, but he was playing blues over classical changes. Not a great leap, just great music. Louis Armstrong could comfortably play with Dizzy Gillespie. They shared a lot. I didn't say ancient relic, I said meaning. And I can tell you what that means. And you don't know what you mean by risks, do you? Name two risks.

[edcerc]

why are you focusing of what i mean by levels. I mean adding on the tradition. Parker took what art tatum did to the next level, Coltrane and Dolphy took what parker did the the next level..ayler took what coltrane did.....It doesnt mean there better they just added another piece to the puzzle. And by risks i mean that people should give unfirmiliar music a chance even thought it might not be as profitable.

[NAFTALI2]

I focus on what you mean because you use the word every other sentence, and frankly, it doesn't seem to have any meaning. It sounds empty. And here's what happened. No one wanted the picture anymore after certain people added pieces to the puzzle. That's because they felt the music was meaningless. I understand that feeling. You're labeling people negatively, just because they don't like what you like. What's that about?

[edcerc]

Its not about not liking what i like. Its about being open minded. As a musicain myslef my artistic growth would be very limited if i didnt open my self up to music that was unfirmiliar. Some music you might not like at first and then grow to love it more than anything.

[NAFTALI2]

Don't you think it's a coincidence that in your mind open minded people like what you like and closed minded people don't like what you like? Is it possible to be open minded, according to you, and think Albert Ayler's playing is crap?

[edcerc]

Its not close minded not to like something its close minded to deny someone like albert ayler at least some kind of respect for his ability and his contribution to the language. If you dont like it thats fine but to say his playing is crap is overlooking the importance of what he did. It would be open minded to say that youve heard his music enought to make a judgement and still respect how much he influenced guys like coltrane.

[NAFTALI2]

Well, perhaps many people were making that judgment, phrased in exactly the way that makes you comfortable, and then choose not to listen because the music has lost the beauty and power that it once had. Not to mention that it drained the music of its joy. So what you call a contribution, others, me included, would call a deadly blow. Am being close minded, or, if you don't allow me that opinion, are you being close minded? Also, I take it you play the trumpet, is that correct?

[edcerc]

I dont see how refining the concept of music to pure sound and emotion is draining music of its joy. Albert Ayler had as much feeling as you could possibly express in music. I dont play trumpet but i play music and playing music and listening to music like albert ayler gives me more joy than almost anything.

[NAFTALI2]

How in the world can you say that anyone expressed more joy--or the pure sound of joy--than Louis Armstrong or Wes Montgomery, just to name two. I could go on for days listing people. Just because someone expresses themselves within the context of chords everyone agrees on doesn't diminish anything. Removing the chords doesn't elevate anything. Look at this video again and tell me this isn't pure sound and emotion.

[edcerc]

I personally love wes montgomery he is a huge influence on my playing but as much as I think he is one the best straight jazz guitar players I dont enjoy his music as much as say ayler or derek bailey. I connect more with the sound and emotion of their records.

[NAFTALI2]

Well why didn't you just say that in the beginning? Everyone has their favorite players, everyone connects differently. You didn't have to go on saying that the founders of jazz were lesser artists, or that people who like them are rigid or that record companies are in some conspiracy to keep people from listening to your favorites. So I guess we have nothing more to say on the subject. At least I don't.

[itsartolie]

Yeah ok, but during Bird's time, 52nd street was packed with clubs.Whether we like it or not, since the bebop days the music's popularity waned, a necessary evil as it grew more serious, it's a valid process with every artistic movement.Those guys you're talking about Parker, Brotzman et al have been around for 40 yrs, I wouldn't call that exactly new, it's just another sub-idiom with its very small following.

[itsartolie]

That being said, even Wes' music, as it's under his music we're carrying out this argument, which should be as legible to the average jazz lover as Mary Had A Little Lamb vis a vis Ayler et al, was very poorly received commercially and the guy only started to make a buck with these cheesy California Dreaming recordings of his, and all that in the early 60s, can you imagine?

[edcerc]

To me a musicians comercial success says nothing about the artistic merit of their music. Theres plenty of trendy music that sells more than any age of jazz could ever hope to sell.

[itsartolie]

Barring the rare millionaire who pens music for fun, even jazz musicians have to make a living you know.Watch to what Cannonball Adderley has to say on this on Jive Samba/Jazz Scene USA on my channel.Contrary to other arts, where a genius can be discovered centuries later, music is something that needs an audience. This applies to jazz as well.

[edcerc]

Yeah but their still playing and inspiring the new guys like Nmperign. Look at anthony braxtons group, its full of young kids who are exicted about working hard to progress music. As a young musician this music this is the music that inspires me to create. And looking at guys like evan parker who are just as important to me as guys like coleman hawkins and bird. In todays world you can independently move to your audience and you dont have to sell half as much as someone on a major label.

[itsartolie]

Jazz has proliferated into so many sub-idioms that it is well-nigh impossible to pinpoint what one means by the utterance of the word alone anymore. Be it dixieland, swing, bebop or the avant garde all can be found today -for niche audiences. Thing is there is no more social need for this music anymore, hence its demise and its preservation as a museum exhibit in the same way as classical.

[edcerc]

I disagree there are people who have been developing jazz or jazz influenced music that is as relevent today as ever. Guys like Evan Parker have carried the torch and influenced the next generation. When I saw peter brotzmann at tonic it was all young guys there.

[NAFTALI2]

Couldn't resist, my friend, could you? And you let him off the hook. He doesn't have any idea what he means by levels. The music sounds stranger and stranger and he thinks it's getting hipper and hipper, when it's only getting stranger. If you want to move this to your blog, and I wouldn't recommend this, there is a deep social need for swing and the blues. It moves anyone who hears it. It's about Soul. Not to be confused with Brain.

[edcerc]

When Chalie Parker came out he was strange the same with monk. T use the word strange with a negative connotation goes against the whole meaning of jazz. Thats whats wrong with audiences they are turned off by whats unfirmiliar when they should be intrigued. Just cause its strange to you doesnt mean that it doesnt have just as much merit as something else. People need to be more open minded.

[NAFTALI2]

It wasn't that strange. A lot of people got into it right away. Small groups emerged right after. What's so strange about taking the chords to Indiana and writing Donna Lee? Or walking chords down from F major to Bb? Everyone was doing that.

[pianodan10]

Jesus, this is the only smart comment on this entire page. Thanks.

[edcerc]

Plus audiences today would rather listen to 50 cent than Barney Kessel. Does that make them right? I think that the decline of jazz and popular music in general is just as much the consumers fault as the musicians.

[NAFTALI2]

Audience don't know Barney Kessel. And I promise you, I would bet you that when 50 cent turn 50 years old, he'll be listening to Barney Kessel. He'll be glad he's got his millions, and fifty bucks a week of that will go to a music teacher--because he will want to be a musician.

[edcerc]

and like i said charley patton, son house, thats the blues to me.

[NAFTALI2]

Here's my definition of blues: Arnett Cobb, Jimmy Forrest, Charlie Shavers, Hal Singer, Louis Armstrong, Charlie Christian. These guys are playing blues over more interesting chords. Jimmy Smith, Art Blakey, Cannonball Adderley, Wes Montgomery played some very unique and beautiful renditions of basic blues changes. Hank Mobely, Horace Silver. Just about everyone played blues until the avante garde and Miles second group.

[edcerc]

I dont consider really any jazz as pure blues. I guess i could let louis slide but when i think of blues I think of THe blues as in 145 or just a single drone the whole time. But as far as blues in jazz ornette was even closer to straight blues than Bird

[NAFTALI2]

Too bad.  If you'd play blues over jazz changes you'd have a lot of fun. And it sounds real good too. And people like it. Everyone wins.

[edcerc]

im not saying that i havent and that jazz isnt bluesey im just saying that in my mind there is a distinction between someone like skip james and someone like coleman hawkins

[NAFTALI2]

You're right. There's a real difference. Remember how this conversation started? Months ago someone notice how much joy came from Wes' music and from his band. And they wondered why they don't see that joy anymore. They have a point.

[edcerc]

Well nowadays the jazz industry is primarily based on people who sound like watered down 5th hand versions of the greats. They arent looking for originality that was the catalyst for all great jazz movements. All the best from Parker, Trane, to Ayler broke tradition and defined jazz for their generation but that attitude is lost. There is still great jazz if you look, european guys like evan parker are trully great.

[Strange0ne]

like most of ur point very well thought out and argued but please read my post

[Strange0ne]

this was meant to be a comment to some1 els

[edcerc]

Not saying that the best jazz isnt fun, but the first step to cutting lose and taking jazz to the next level is forgetting about entertaining and just furthering your art for the few who are really listening

[campocat]

I don't know who you are but if that is the way you play you'll be playing for a small nerd minority of people that know what mode your in, in 17 different keys. As made fun of in Peter Gunn movies. If that floats your boat fine, but don't even think of calling it the music born of oppression, chaingangs,

funeral procession, red light houses. Man if you can't make people dance on a Friday night in Newark they'll shoot your ass off the stage.

'

[edcerc]

Well saying that making people dance is the main goal is very limiting and saying that only nerds will like it is judemental and ingorant. I would say that people who like music that most people cant hear is the opposite of nerdy.

[campocat]

Son I played with Miles and have strings older than you. Turn off the computer and shed, when you come back don't play what you know - play what you don't know. Experience is not judggggemental - learned wisdom given freely is not ingorant 23 year olds spouting chapter and verse is ignorant and cowardly since I can't get my hands around your neck.

[edcerc]

"hands around your neck" damn you take this internet posting buisness seriously.

[edcerc]

and "turn off your computer and shed" I dont get it.

[hvbluesman]

I agree with campo, the notion that the "public" is to ignorant to understand your "super-serious" music is insulting. Music is approachable on all levels no matter how harmonically deep it is. Jazz just isn't as popular today as it once was, that is just a pop culture trend and it may have something to do with a bunch a elitist derps who think they are playing "free jazz".

[NAFTALI2]

He means go and practice. And then practice some more, and after that practice some more until you're done, and then practice some more.

[edcerc]

I would have to say that even the shittiest jazz musician is probably having fun. Music is a fun thing no matter how seriously you take it. Guys like Anthony Braxton are definately having a great time playing becuase that is what they love. When i listen to music i want to moved, excited, inspired, if these goals are met than thats entertaining enough for me.

[calebl75]

Such great stuff

[irakleinjazz]

magic... THE player at work

[clinkmasta]

look at that little thumb go!

[ClaudemirMaceio]

Very Good!