Jeff Ocheltree - Trust Your Ears, Complete Bonham section

[arlo4823]

No help whatsoever. I can't find "way up there" or "more than one would think" on my drum dial. I wish someone would measure the tensions on these tuning videos with a drum dial or tension watch then report these numbers.

[yettibrad]

I wonder what kind of preamps those mics were running through most of the time? I'd assume Neve but I'd like to know for sure.

[Limedrum]

Best sounding kit ever. I can't get my 14x24 kick to sound good like this though, any tips? I'm using an Emperor batter, but I don't have the felt muffling and it sound too ringy/marching bass drum. Wondering if a coated Powerstroke III would do just as well, and not having to use felt since it has a ring?

[chochemerlyn]

@Limedrum Use the felt. Why not? If you want that sound, Jeff's telling you how to get it. Powerstroke III is a different sound. Felt on both sides for the Bonham sound. For a different sound like on a 14x20 I do like the Powerstroke III with no pillow or towel or anything inside, but a felt on the resonant side

[cheaptrades]

Jeff's rockin  a dannycarey . org shirt

[shigella63]

That is exactly the Madison Squere Garden 1973 Moby Dick solo! Great Job!

[HellbarClub]

Not very many drums have survived with original wrapping and very few in Bonhams sizes. I am proud owner of several GS 60's and 70's set ups but they're expensive and so rare they're almost never up for sale.

[HellbarClub]

I would say it does fit into this specific kit since he would have no reason to lie about the previous owner. Have in mind that this color option green sparkle was not a big seller due to the nasty habit of these fading into some yellowish/pissy green when exposed to light and not just direct sunlight.

[Kyleley]

Pardon me whilst I rant. There are just too many "X" factors in this segment for me. John Bonham's drums sounded like John Bonham's drums because John Bonham played them. This video is the closest I've ever heard, but it's still not quite right. And why? Because it's not Bonham.

[ricardoieci]

Jeff how does Danny Carey tunes his drums?

[mosilflutil10]

sounds fucking awesome 

[alltogetherseperate]

everything, besides his bass drum (just my opinion that i dont particularly like), sounds incredible!!!

[downvan77]

Great job on the solo!

[ThomasMetal75]

Nice boots Junior! Gonna climb a mountain when you finish playing that set?!?!

[ericsuppes]

18x16 floor tom doesn't match the rest of the kit. check out the color difference at 5:08.

[Slammintone]

@ericsuppes In another video Jeff Ocheltree says one of the floor toms had cigarette burns and other issues when he got the kit so it may have been recovered when he cleaned up and restored the kit to it's current playable condition. Or, it could still be the original wrap but the wrap was from a different batch for the 18" than the rest of the kit and didn't fade as badly. I mean, Bonham got three different Green Sparkle Ludwig kits in 1970 alone, who know's how many he got in 1971?

[ericsuppes]

@Slammintone i've never actually seen the rest of this..but it makes sense. that 18" just looks soo much different..

[RazrHack]

Oh my God, I really fucked this up with my kit. I used Ambassadors on top and Emperors on the bottom D:

Oh well, at least it still sounds good.

[mariorossipuzza]

a question: how many ply?

[harisk1]

@mariorossipuzza: 3-ply, mahogany-poplar-maple, with solid maple re-rings.

[mariorossipuzza]

@harisk1 ONLY 3??

[harisk1]

@mariorossipuzza: Yes, that was the ply configuration used by Ludwig and some other drum companies up until the mid to late 70's. Two thin outer and inner plies (usually maple or/and mahogany) and a thicker middle ply from a cheaper wood, usually poplar.

[mariorossipuzza]

@harisk1 so why nowadays i hear something like 20 ply snares or 10 ply bassdrums?

[harisk1]

@mariorossipuzza: BTW, I don't believe that newer drums sound better or worse than vintage ones, only different. It's just a matter of taste. Personally I like both.

[harisk1]

@mariorossipuzza: Because at some point things in drum shell making changed. Rogers was the first to introduce a full maple 8-ply sell in the early 80's (the XP-8 Series) and from then on most drum manufacturers started experimenting with different woods and configurations, with full maple and full birch 6-8 ply tom shells, and 8-10 ply snare and BD shells having become the norm (but not without exceptions) in the last 20-plus years.

[mariorossipuzza]

@harisk1 thank you. you are great!

[harisk1]

@mariorossipuzza: You're most welcome!

[ytseman3]

Supraphonics are chrome plated aluminum, they were NEVER steel. The first supras were chrome over brass.

[duel2k7]

I see this kit has the internal damperns that Ludwig does where these ever engaged?

[harisk1]

@duel2k7: If you mean by Bonham, I seriously doubt it.

[painemporium]

Use your head! He means steel!

[yonatawodi]

I finally ordered one of these from Ludwig and I can't wait to receive it. That big/bad Ludwig sound is brilliant.

Cheers

[crlaw75]

Giant Beats are nice cymbals.

[Chazone27]

@crlaw75 hell yeah

[repentandrebel]

this guy got 1 thing wrong:

Bonzo always used a wooden tipped kick pedal.

[painemporium]

@repentandrebel

He can't have gotten it wrong, just forgot! Bonham got and used what he gave him! He was Bonhams drum tech!

[VoteforJimJepson]

I have this exact kit just with a 9x13 tom and a Zildjian A Custom Rezo 15" Hi-hat w/ 16" and 18" Custom A crash and a 20" Custom Rezo Crash.

[VoteforJimJepson]

3 Deaf People disliked this.

[samurayledhendrix]

John Bonham el mejor baterista de todos los tiempos, este reportaje nos hace sentir como si el mismisimo Bonham estuviera describiendo su bateria, su afinación, su arte, su alma, gracias led zeppelin...

[bockaudio]

chrome is a plating or component of a compound and not usually used as a structural metal! Essential in stainless steel for example.

[airmetyk]

il avait la pêche Jhon Bannane

[MYNAMETAYLA]

When he say's "A Ludwig cowbell made by Paiste", he means the cowbell was distributed by Ludwig, but made of Paiste cymbal alloy, right?

[grajdrums]

I really wish he'd have done a Vistalite explanation too

[crlaw75]

Notice the absence of a hole in the front head or the bottoms off the drums.

[kevthedrummer]

When he says about tuning the snare right up... It doesn't sound to me like that snare has been tuned right up, I agree that the bottom head probably is, because I've experienced that and had great results, but tuning the top head to high makes it sound like a ping. Though I've not tried it with a coated emperor, currently using an aquarian high energy head on ludwig black beauty

[crlaw75]

I am sure that live he didn't use felt strips on the bass drum.

[JaredCoffin210]

@crlaw75 i think he did i've seen some vids

[crlaw75]

I have the John Bonham book and the person who has his '69 maple kit opened up the bass drum and saw shredded newspaper in it.

[flywm]

Snare sounds AMAZING!

[eminem0710]

Was the resonant side of the snare ambassador coated like the other drums or did he use ambassador hazy?

[iamadog]

@eminem0710 ... pretty sure they didn't make coated snare side heads back then (I don't know of anyone that makes a coated snare side now)

snare side head is for response of the snare wires, and not meant to be struck ... that's why it's so thin. a coating would defeat the purpose.

[Maxwerm]

@iamadog - A 12" drum head is a 12" drum head. You can put it on any 12" drum, it doesn't have to be designated as "snare side" in order to use it. I have a coated Diplomat on the bottom of my Superphonic and it sounds great.

[sodemored]

do you reckon they said to the drummer before he started, "yeah man just go crazy do what you do, just one thing though, dont hit the fuckin cymbals, or we are gonna fine your ass."

he doesnt play one straight beat, why

I WANT ANSWERS!

[guitarristachileno]

well bonham rarely played cymbals during moby dick and all his live versions too. so im guessing thats what mark romans did as well to stay true to moby dick.

[gunsnbanjos]

I read somewhere that Bonham lined his bass drum with aluminum foil. Is this true? Can anyone comment?

[tttooommm123]

He did something like that, but i wouldn't go ahead and do it to your bass drum with out researching it further, and he definatly didn't do it alot.

[crlaw75]

Only to make it louder.

[bonhamfan98]

Does anyone know what brand and type (meaning smooth white, ambassador coated, emperor coated, etc.) of bass drum reso head I should use to get that sound? And if you know, where to get it?

[yadrummer11]

remo

[yanzi420]

since it's got the ludwig logo i'm guessing it's a smooth white ludwig weathermaster. you should get almost the same sound out of a coated or smooth ambassador.

[bonhamfan98]

cool, thanks.

[yanzi420]

here's some more info: I put a vintage logo front head on my kick. It's a weathermaster "heavy." I've tried a coated emperor batter side with it and its ringy as all hell. I've yet to try the felt strips but my kick is 22" and trying to achieve the sound of a 26" is never gonna be perfect.

[Rockinnsk8inallday]

@yanzi420

maybe tune a bit better or differently...Im not saying you can't tune though!!!!

[blica1]

he's using the smoothe white one here , and you can get it just about any music shop that sells drums ! but you can still get a great sound with an emperor coated or ambassador...you can even try a nice fibrskyn coated or a even a renaissance !!

[andrewtheman19]

Remo, Emperor Coated. Check any local music stores :-\

[bonhamfan98]

Does anyone know what resonant head I should use for my bass drum to get that sound, and if so, where to get it?

[duel2k7]

Does anyone know the patten from 8:41 to 8:45

[yeapno]

@duel2k7 its pretty much snare tom bass drum .. watch it a few times im sure you can make it out ..

[chronic9292]

damn this guy is fuckin good. MOBY DICK

[twan1492]

I have a drum stick that he through out to the crowd and my uncles freind caught it and gave it to me

[DrumPotato]

He says - "Always METAL, never chrome over brass."

...That makes no sense. Chrome and brass are both metal.

[twelvescofflenard]

What he means is that they were all chrome, no brass. It's just the standard 402.

[drumsanddrumming]

@twelvescofflenard

even more- not brass but chrome over aluminium. (Ludalloy)

Bonham liked the aluminium shell.

[KedmenecMartin]

@twelvescofflenard

the new 402's are aluminium!

[painemporium]

@twelvescofflenard

He means chrome plated steel! Not chrome plated brass!

[beeterolds]

@twelvescofflenard I believe its a chrome plated Zinc shell.. the new ones are aluminum which makes for a drier sound.. close but not the same.. they still make the chrome over brass tho

[gabbalabbawoop]

@DrumPotato yes it does, the chrome over brass model sounded completely different to the aluminium/steel models.

has a completely different sound properties. because chrome over brass was known and still is as "ludalloy". only they did it back then.

[guitarristachileno]

@DrumPotato he probably means he used the ludaloy shell supraphonics, as opposed to the chrome covered brass shell.

[guitarristachileno]

@guitarristachileno disregard that comment...

[Meatlooaf]

@DrumPotato he's suppose to say, always steel!

[wolfpack9iloilo]

@DrumPotato coz it's a metal snare not a chrome over brass. Jeff is a well known drum tech for years bro. don't argue with an expert. do your research.

[painemporium]

@wolfpack9iloilo

These other guys are idiots!

[DragonsFiire]

@DrumPotato no some snares have chrome on the outside of brass snares

[painemporium]

@DrumPotato

He means chrome plated steel, not chrome plated brass! although some Ludwig Supraphonic snare drums were "mystery alloy" maybe aluminum, maybe? ...tin who knows...most likely steel steel is the most common now.

[QuickSilverStalin]

Does anyone have a "Drum Dial"? I have one and I am just wondering what the drum tension would be on a "Bonham tuned" drum kit like this. Thanks:)

[chicagokid82]

Can't speak for the toms or kick, but the snare is roughly 88 for the top head, 80 for the bottom head... IF you're using the same heads (Coated Emperor top, Ambassador Snare Side bottom).

[coreyyoung78]

kneedragger81: most high end drum manufacturers will actually write the resonant note inside the shell. If not you just have to find it by ear. The way my drum instructor taught me was to finger tighten the batter head and sing into the drum until you hear a noticeable reverberation. That's the note resonating with the shell. I just do a "do re mi fa so la ti..." while holding the notes out until I find it. A pitch pipe or electronic tuner might come in handy once you do.

[kneedragger81]

Thanks....I have spent a lot of time and I am close, but the sound and feel still is not right to me. I will try your method.

[kneedragger81]

Anyone know what pitches to aim for on these drums? Some say "just get it to resonate best", but I think the pros are tuning to pitches....the drums should be tonal IMO. I am running a similar kit and want to dial it in just like this one.

Pearl Reference Redline Acoustic Drums

13x9

16x16

18x16

24x18

14x6.5 snare

Coated Emperor - Batter

Coated Ambassador - Resonant

The 18 sounds good at F and the 13/16 are good at A....but the 18 sounds out of place to me.

[chicagokid82]

The Bonham kit is roughly G on the snare, toms about (high to low) B, F#, C#. It's hard to pick out the note on the kick, but an octave below the 16" should get you close.

[bonhamfan98]

thanks

[bonhamfan98]

does anyone know if bonham used a coated or clear ambassador on the resonant side of his snare? also, does anyone know how much tighter the resonant side of the snare should be than the batter side to get that sound?

[volvoguy76]

That would be an Ambassador *Snare side* head. Not your typical Ambassador that you'd use on a tom resonant side. Just get the bottom head a smidge tighter than the batter.

[Rockinnsk8inallday]

@volvoguy76 But wouldn't you think it would be a great idea to have a COATED snare side head? They already have a suede! Why not coated?

[lordieuan777]

Well I heard it from one of Bonham's Roadies/Drum Tech's, one that he had before he met Jeff.

He also mentioned that Bonham used a "Dr. Scholl's Magic Moleskin" patch, to do a similar job to a Falam Slam thing, except that it would be softer, so give a warmer sound.

Bonham's sound came from Bonham, not his equipment.

[lordieuan777]

This video is good, but it doesn't mention that (apparently) Bonham used a wood beater on the kick pedal, not a felt one.

[twelvescofflenard]

No, but he tunes the bass drum and puts felt strips in it.

[ToolKid21]

is there anything else on the dvd apart from this and the Danny Carey playing?

[DavySolaris]

i can see the acrylic kit in the background there, did he go over that kit in the same way in this film?

[eleesae]

I have the Ludwig Accent Zep Re-issue for my gig with Lez Zeppelin. This video just gave me some grea ideas. I've got that enormous 26" bass wide friggin open. I use a wood snare, however, just prefer it. I hate Paiste...I'm a zildjian gal myself. I never said I was Bonzo...so I guess I can use zildjian....excellent video for us Bonzo heads!!

[Robotdrummerzzk]

The Accent Zep Re Issue is philipinne mahogany and not close to the real thing, which was maple

[impala5160]

@eleesae Why hate Paiste? They make a great cymbal!

[pearse2112]

my god, that snare is godlike

[blica1]

hey spikeman23..this guy's pretty damn good in my book..why don't you post a video of yourself playing and prove us all wrong !!!

[esa291]

im pretty sure he was kidding

[blica1]

AWESOME

[spikeman23]

this mar roman guy sucks, sounds like he is just starting out. fantasic player lol

[twelvescofflenard]

However, I do still use close mics because to be honest my set doesn't sound nearly this good and I need to get a little more body out of the drums. The actual amount of level I use out of the close mics is minimal though and I have never heard a close mic on a snare that sounded good. Ever.

[KPhil9085908890]

This is true, a close mic to the snare always kills its reverb. But if you're into the Ringo - Beatles sound then go for it!

[twelvescofflenard]

This is a reply to the last two posts.

This is the way I mic my set more or less. It is really the only way I want to mic a drum set ever again. The idea is that if your set sounds really good when you are just standing there listening to it being played, then it should sound great recorded. This mic set up is used to capture the actual sound of the set. It also requires very minimal EQ but to EQ it would defeat the purpose because it would effect all the drums together.

[ToolKid21]

are the sounds of the drums that we are hearing, is that how the actualy drums sounds like, or are they miced into a computer and EQed to sound so amazing.

[KPhil9085908890]

A mic on the batter side of the bass drum?!?!?!?!

I gotta try that. :-)

And what's up with no snare mics, but 5 ambient ones? (2 over heads, the shotgun mic and 2 very distant room mics). I know Page said distance = depth but I never thought he meant use 5 ambient mics on the drum kit!

[DavySolaris]

mic on the batter side works really well, try it (y)

[bluefishbrothers]

He's letting the beater stay on the bass drum head, thus killing everything Bonham about that bassdrum sound! :S :S

[BrainDamage769]

They almost sound kind of quiet! =\

I want this exact kit, except maybe a 26 x 16 bass drum instead of the 26 x 14, for a little more awesomenessity. =D

[Robotdrummerzzk]

Naaa, I want a 26 x 24 bass drum!

[esa291]

jeez

[auburngoalie]

8-o

[lordieuan777]

I get a nasty feeling that Mark Romans here was using Heel-toe...

Anyway, thanks for uploading, that mic'ing technique section was quite enlightening.

And yes, it is Pie-stee ("rhymes with feisty!")

[JazzyJonas]

Pie-stee

Bon-um

kicked-ass!

[teamsleepnine]

i have been pronouncing paiste cymbals,'paste'but its 'pasti' instead...

or its just jeef pronounce it in his own way?

[jofujenkins]

great post! thanks for putting this up.

[sacredrealm]

Thanks for uploading the full version with the micing section.

[blica1]

bonham's first pro kit was 1967-68 green sparkle kit in 4 piece configuration..but in STANDARD sizes !! 13- 16-22 !! and his good friend bev bevan of E L O said it still sounded freakishly loud !! hence ludwig's 3 ply maple kits from those days were the loudest on the market at that time ! that whole tuning process works for those standard sizes as well !1..i tried it with great success and sound quality !!, god bless jeff on of course bonzo for those little secret jems of info !

[andwi03]

haha the black hair gauy seems to have a fake hair

[vinniecorbit]

14" = B, 16" = F, 18" = C#

[blica1]

anybody know where i can get the complete video ?

[twelvescofflenard]

No, there is more but it's about other sets and drummers and shit. This was the interesting part. The vistalite part was good too but was basically just him putting a head and felts on a bass drum.

[guitarguyfrommars]

is that the whole video. if so it is kinda a of money to buy. only nine minutes

[twelvescofflenard]

It's actually a brand new vistalite kit he just uses to show how he puts on heads/felt on the bass drum. Basically how he sets up a kit out of the box.

[Hady1994]

nice, why does the kit look so small at the beginning? Its monstar sizes man and it looks really small on the camera

[twelvescofflenard]

Probably in relation to the cymbals, which are also pretty huge. Plus Jeff is probably pretty tall.

[blica1]

no it isn't his actual vistalite kit..the original was auctioned off in the 90's!!

[lordieuan777]

doesnt mean it isnt his though... could be borrowed

[blica1]

i highly doubt it.the current owner would be out of his mind to loan it , even to ocheltree..the guy who has the kit is a COLLECTOR named bill townsend, who took it back home to north carolina !.maybe we should ask him if it is the actual kit !! BUT I STILL DOUBT IT..NO SANE COLLECTOR WOULD DO SUCH A THING..ESPECIALLY WITH A HIGHLY PRIZED POSSESION SUCH AS THIS KIT !!

[lordieuan777]

meh.. some people might, some might not

I think I would, as i know that jeff knows his stuff, but those shells were infamous for cracking...

[blica1]

exactly..it would be also like having ringo's black oyster and recording with it today !!no one would dream of it ! just too valuable!! these drums deserve retirement !lol !cheers !

[zeppelin511]

i wonder if that vistalite in the backround was johns actual set in 73 and 75.

[britefish]

My chain drive squeaks alot as well. Any piece will begin to squeak a bit after much use, not so unusual. BTW, and feel free to have a laugh on me, I feel like an idiot. I have had this particular S.K. pedal for many years and never did see how the tension is adjusted. I just found the adjusters today while casually looking over the pedal. There are 2 screws, one on either side of the beater mount tower looking at it from bottom. Flat head screws. Doh! Jeeze ;-)

[britefish]

Yeah it's squeaky. But then again so is my chain drive pedal I use all the time. I think they all get a little squeaky after awhile. Chief thing I notice about the speed king compared to my chain drive pedal is how much tighter/stiffer the S.K. is. It's got some sort of internal springs on either end inside and I was never sure how to adjust or if it even could be adjusted. It's a great pedal once you get used to it. Mine's still got a big ole wood beater on it. Built like a tank, indestructible

[britefish]

I still occasionally use my old Speed King pedal and boy are those suckers stiff. Use a modern chain drive for any length of time then go try an old Speed King. Mucho respect for Bonham's abilities on the kick using those bears. They are great nearly indesctructible pedals, but take alot of getting use to because they are some tight buggers. At least the various vintage ones I've used all were.

[twelvescofflenard]

I used to have one myself, but that was a long time ago. Is yours as squeeky as his was? I swear it's all I ever hear anymore on houses of the holy. I can hear it in almost every song.

[Ludwag511]

thats because those are very old, which makes the metal not as smooth. maby a litle rust here and there. new ones arent made the same, but a new one back then would be fantastic.

[lordieuan777]

really? I find my SK is smooth as the babies proverbial, even with the tension maxed out. I do pretty much manhandle my kit though, hitting hard, using massive stick (tree trunks is what my friends call them) etc. maybe its personal preferance, but i just feel uncomfortable playing if i dont have to be assertive with my drum kit.

[tittyslave]

woops?

[tittyslave]

Banham?

[twelvescofflenard]

Woops.