Double clutch and heel toe

[Driv2r7]

Infineon raceway!!!!

[shaunbauer2]

nice driving youve realy master double clutching and heel toe

[1Huck5oh]

It's too bad there's so many stupid people on here...anyone who watches closely can see it. Especially @ 1:50 when you're coming in to turn 11 (i think). There's like 6 leg movements there.

I say bravo and I'm still working on my technique cuz my 94 Mustang GT has a worn out box, so it's very necessary for track days, but very nicely done!

[Rfsancho]

Man fuck this shit.

I admit stupidity and ignorance, I just watched the vid more closely and saw that shit.

It was hard to tell just watching cus you barely clutch in on those, looks like you're grinding the clutch a bit during it...

Man I feel like a retard arguing about what's there...

*logs out and marks his own comments down*

[Rfsancho]

If you still don't believe me. A double clutch heeltoe down would involve: Stepping on brake, clutch in, neutral, clutch out, blip while on brake, clutch in, next lower gear, clutch out.

Notice the amount of clutch action, two times. This guy clutches in only once for each down. AKA, normal heeltoe down. Go ahead, mark my comments down if you want, since that is the most expected outcome of YouTubers who believe retarded people posting retarded comments.

Peace~

[2005pierric]

who's sayin BS here lol, i know wut double clutching is, and i definitely know i sometimes double clutched in that video... If you don't have eyes then i can't do anything for yoiu. BTW my old gearbox hand no synchros. Try changing gears without double clutch ;)

[Rfsancho]

Show me the time-frame where you performed a double-clutch-heeltoe-downshif­t, aka:

clutch in, neutral, clutch out, rev up, clutch in, next gear, clutch out, all while holding brake

I have watched the video very closely, and have not seen it performed. I never said you don't know what a "double clutch" is. And you can change gears in a non-synchro box without even clutching in, let alone double clutch, go driving a semi with 18 gears and then come back to me with that shit.

[3000ST1]

1.14 - watch the left leg

[Rfsancho]

Stupid YouTube does not allow comments longer than 500 characters, that's some bullshit.

I honestly don't mean to disrespect you, but when you say stuff like that its very hard to think of you as a person that knows their shit.

Once again, I DON'T doubt you know what it all is, I DON'T doubt you can do it easily, but it is not in the video, simple as that.

[HCNguyen86]

eh. DCHT is easy to do with practice, took me several week to perfect it. Needless to say I don't need to use it, just something to learn for the fun of it and to show off.

Considering most cars are fit with decent synchros,HT is just fine or just SCRM.

I just see no point in DCHT, if you wanna explain it to me then go ahead.

Less wear on the synchros? Why would he care though. LOL

the wear should be negligible as well.

[2005pierric]

It helps when you have a wee bit older car than actual cars ;). My GT has old synchros, so DC is essential to keep the gearbox in good shape ;

[HCNguyen86]

Yes but I was asking if it has any actual use on the tracks. Doing that would only waste precious seconds you can shave off, now I am not saying it is not useful, even i do it coming off freeways. Basically for a 5 to 2 downshift. I understand, your car requires you to DC but this guy is driving a Subaru

Bah, i guess it's just preference

Downshift from 5 to 2 with 1 major blip ;]

[sirstiggington]

I see exactly what your saying. but think of it this way: dc and ht make your downshifts a little smoother. most race car drivers will tell you that the smoothest driver wins the race.

[HCNguyen86]

and they will also tell you every second wasted counts.

Let's say driver with decent skill mastered DCHT vs HT

which one would be quicker to downshift from 5 to 3? It'll be the HT

Sure, DCHT has it use outside of the tracks but on the tracks I really don't think it is that useful compared to HT. If you ever drove @ the tracks or rode passenger side with someone who is a regular, there is no smooth ride at all in the car.

Smooth lines are what gives you better time, not smooth ride :]

[sirstiggington]

im not trying to argue with you so please don't take it that way but wouldnt the split second wasted using heel toe or double clutch be better than locking up your tires and sliding off the track or worse

[HCNguyen86]

Of course not, I know you aren't arguing with me.. but using regular HT compared to DCHT would not make a difference in these newer cars, basically almost any car above 80s. Double clutch heel toe is usually used to save your synchros but even with the newer cars that is not needed, and you can not slide off the track just by doing a regular heel toe, there are many variables that can affect the lost of traction but that is not related whether you choose DCHT or just regular HT.

[nattapolcha]

@HCNguyen86 Double clutching rev-match take an advantage to downshift as skip gear sequence. For example 5th to 3rd in stead normally heel-toe 5th-4th-3rd. Sure heel-toe double clutch with sequential downshift waste time and not neccessary to do :)

[HCNguyen86]

@nattapolcha Yes, I see your point. My daily driver is a manual trans so I will admit that I do this sometimes.

However, I will add to my original post that I was referring to a racing scenario.

[g1DDriver]

@2005pierric There is no DCHT on this video, the driver performs HT to go 2 gears done 1-by-1, no blipping in neutral.

[2005pierric]

@g1DDriver

spec again, for instance at 00:41, he depresses clutch twice with one blip, the blip is in neutral.. he is just so fast you don't see it :)

[g1DDriver]

@2005pierric You right, my fault. I found that famous original video and look at it carefully. The driver is doing DCHT when he downshifts and the rev goes down a lot , when revs are in high range just regular HT. When he need to go down a couple of gears - again just a sequence of HTs.

[Rfsancho]

He is not double clutching for ANY of his downshifts. Stop spreading bullshit. This guy is doing standard single clutch helltoe down, and flatfooting up. I can't believe how many people can't figure that out, it's not that hard to see/hear it, let alone notice it if you're an experienced driver.

BTW, double clutching a heeltoe down in racing is the second most retarded shit I've heard since the "double clutch upshift for racing" shit. Please stop being ignorant. Thank you.

[codyj702]

this guy is good.I'm still learning the heel toe method.I finally understand how it works and the usefullness of it

[monsmikey420]

yeah im still workin on how much pressure, kinda tricky at first. this guy is fluid

[wankelkart]

Those (in my opinion beautiful) techniques are used mostly in Japan or with Japanese cars. I personally drive a Spoon DC2 in BTCS (Belgian Touring Car Series) as an amateur and I use double-clutching too because it is highly effective on FF's. The only thing I do more is in the middle of the corner, when I hit the accelerator hard whilst putting my left foot lightly on the brake. This makes a clean line and allows steady hard acceleration. Do you think this technique is also useful on 4wd?

[2005pierric]

I think you would understeer widly..

Interesting point of a 4wd is that you can slam the throttle earlier, the power goes straight to the road ;)

C ya

[longstar88]

Hi, i've got a quick question for you.

im driving the r32 gtr and i have been practising heel toe, what i do is clutch n break in then heel on acclerator, change gear and clutch out.

Would that do any damage to the clutch since im not doing double clutching at the same time?

[2005pierric]

Nope it wouldn't, double clutching only prevents the synchros from wearing out ;)

As long as you heel and toe, the clutch is less used and slipps less, so it's better for the clutch.

double clutching is only better for the gearbox itself ;)

[HeelToeBoy]

Have you ever tried driving along in 4th gear, dipping the clutch, and try to engage 2nd without a blip? You most likely got a crunch. A blip without a double clutch will speed up the input shaft some because of the friction from the pilot bearing. But skipping gears and double clutching can help a synchro gearbox. And again, it is very good practice.

[2005pierric]

i'm entirely ok with you ;)

I can't downshift w/o double clutching anymore ^^...

[HeelToeBoy]

Double Clutching is good practice if you want to better your coordination in the car. It is tough to do at first but once you get it, it becomes second nature, and for me it is hard to go back to single clutching on downshifts. Double Clutching on upshifts is completely unnecessary and a waste of time. Double Clutching a syrnchronized gearbox is very useful if you ever skip gears on a downshift.

[RedlineXD]

hella sounds like vtec

[CTRJDMH22]

Oh course!!! On a subi...?

[MeatAx3]

lol

[SheehanMotorRacing]

Show me where time is being lost by double-clutching the downshifts. The downshifts occur during braking events, which are longer than it takes to downshift. So where are the 10ths being left?

Until I drive a race car that brakes in less time than it takes to double-clutch the downshifts, I'll keep doing it. Mechanical empathy doesn't require a sacrifice in speed.

Gary Sheehan

[dmalo810]

Okay Gary,

I must be wrong. The schools are teaching me wrong and you are right. I'll contact them and let them know that their technique is all wrong and they should be teaching double clutching to all their students. And engaging the clutch twice in a downshift is a real driveline transmission saver. Oh yeah, I almost forgot to tell them that the double clutch will not take any time off. Double clutch here I come! Yee-ha!!!

[SheehanMotorRacing]

Where in my response was I a dick to you?

There is no right or wrong here. Only preference. The schools teach single-clutching because double-clutching isn't NECESSARY and you students have enough on your plate just figuring out which way the turns go.

[SheehanMotorRacing]

From my personal experience on the track, I achieve smoother gear engagements using double-clutching. I am able to do both equally well. I CHOOSE to double-clutch because there is more than enough time in the braking zones to accomplish this without sacrificing laptime.

Perhaps once you graduate from racing school and start racing for real you will gain a better appreciation for your equipment's longevity.

[dmalo810]

ODUB and Earl are correct. Double clutching is a waste of time if you are racing. Most of the comments are from people who have no idea what Heel/Toe technique is for and where it came from. Get a book on racing and read about it. When racing, Heel/Toe has nothing to do with "saving" the transmission. Show me a racer that double clutches and I'll show you someone who wastes 10th's in their lap times.

[2005pierric]

Mate, we agree on that, but we were talking of the benefit of double clutching in regular driving... you know, everyday's life ;)

I'm uploading a new video i made a few hours ago, double clutching with my old GT.. if i don't double clutch and just heel toe.. the gearbox locks, that cost me a car. i crashed a month ago my previous GT because of that

[dmalo810]

Sure, if your gearbox requires a double clutch, then you have no choice.  However, what I'm reading from most of the responders is they do it for "saving" their transmission, which is a complete waste of time.

By the way, superb bit of driving I must say.

[Earl813]

ODUB is right, Double Clutching is pointless. Why take the time of an extra clutch in and out? Unless its a 1950s dump truck you dont DC a race car.

RE

[215jami]

It could be he had a weak box but he was DC-ing The blip was on the down shift and he was working hard at matching But he kept the power up off the apex even if he rolled in.

[dnlgao]

Poor Clutching. Boo.

[997GT378]

um, you can heel toe while double clutching...heel toe is nothing more than braking while blipping the throttle with the same foot....

[ODUB13]

the damn guy in the video is doing it the exact same way i said to.

[2005pierric]

the damn guy in the video is double clutching, so as jbird123456 said, that's clutch in, neutral, clutch out, blip, clutch in, gear, clutch out...

What you're talking about is just heel toe.... no neutral while heel toeing... For a race driver driver you seem obsolete.

[ODUB13]

double clutching is obsolete dumbass. modern transmissions do not require double clutching. the guy in the video is doing heel toe.

[2005pierric]

OK well my dear friend, "race driver" when you buy a new car, your gearbox has synchros right ? But sometimes, synchros die, because ppl don't know how to change gear or whatsoever reason (especially on race cars).. So in that condition you need double clutch...

I always double clutch with my old car (which used to have synchros) because synchros are dead !

[ODUB13]

fix the synchros

[2005pierric]

why should I ? Double Clutch is great ! It can be done almost as quickly as a normal heel toe shifting...

Anyway, the point is both heel/toe and double clutch are useful, no need to bash double clutch...

[steviedb9]

whos this odub13 prick. syncromesh is good yes when your going shopping and cant really be bothered driving properly but doubling clutching still works and gives a much smoother downshift

[ODUB13]

double clutching is pointless. just heel toe and be done with it. extra steps for nothing

[2005pierric]

it's not useless, stop being stupid !

[CPFstudios]

uhhh. I have a question: when do you use heel toe when you're not double clutching? is it just single clutching when you want to just blip it or wat?

[smirnofowner]

Its to keep the revs up so the rear dont slide uot when relesing the clutch, enginebrake.

[BigPeteTV]

yep atleast one who knows what he is talkin about...thubs up from me

[Manderboobuck]

oh yeah there it was at 1:15 and at the end - rubbish - did he forget about the techniques?

[2005pierric]

what was there ?

[SheehanMotorRacing]

I don't require two blips to double-clutch my BMW M3, Mazda Miata or Chevy Silverado 3500 dually crew cab turbo diesel. The Subaru I drove in the video above had stock engine, transmission, clutch, presure plate and flywheel. Two blips aren't necessary.

[SheehanMotorRacing]

There is no need to blip twice. The only blip that matters is the one with the clutch out and the gear lever in neutral.

[2005pierric]

Depends on what car you're driving :P

If your engine has NO intertia at all, you need to blip the engine twice ^^

[SheehanMotorRacing]

This is not a racing gearbox.  Stock gearbox, stock flywheel, clutch and pressure plate.

Gary Sheehan

[revil86]

racing gearboxes don't have synchros

[2005pierric]

i'm sure he got synchros, but you know, syncros also get tired after a while ;)

My old citroen doesn't have any syncros now haha

[mikeiou2]

i was just introduced to double clutching, the only advantages to a double clutch downshift is to make a smoother shift? right? and does it save on wear and tear on ur trans.?

[2005pierric]

Well heel toe makes smoother shifting.

Double Clutching saves on wear and tear on transmission.

So the best thing to do, is double cluch :P

[mikebarrdds]

Definitely double-clutch. It's not useless. The guy who made the video is a real racer.

[samshnel]

Thats freaking fast...nuts...solid form...its double clutching with one throttle blip...watch his clutch.

[rpmthree]

There is nothing either amazing or spectacular about this, so all you "driving experts" need to just settle down lol.

[2005pierric]

thank you, but I think your comment pointless here. Since when do ppl have to judge other ppl's chats ?

bye bye

[arkeys74]

He is heel-toeing AND double clutching during breaking as far as I can see

[jforgas20]

thats not double clutching, he's just heel-toeing so that he doesnt jack up his transmission over time.

[2005pierric]

Trust us and look carefully, he does double clutch. He's impossibly fast and good at it, only blips the throttle once every gear change !

I'm used to doing this now with my car, engine has a lot of inertia so it's easy :p

[laynlow]

umm thats not double clutching. its heel-toe. double clutching is useless in racing while heel-toe is necessary. google the words and you will see how they differ. unless you are thinking about the last hairpin, but its just a 5-4 4-3 3-2 heel-toe downshift.

[2005pierric]

double clutch is when you blip the throttle twice in one gear change :

For instance : From 4-3 :

-depress the clutch, put gear leaver from 4th to neutral

-engage clutch, blip throttle

-depress clutch a second time and put leaver into new gear (3rd)

-engage clutch

Finished

That's double clutch... cause you depress clutch TWICE in one gear change...

[tsujimasen]

double clutch heel-toe:

Brake the car to decelerate,

clutch-in, blip throttle, move shift lever to neutral,

clutch out

clutch-in, blip throttle, move shift lever to next lower gear,

clutch out.

There, that wasn't so hard was it?

[2005pierric]

isn't that what i said lol ?

Sometimes you needn't blip twice, for instance this bloke in the subaru ;)

[FatalJapan]

sounds confusing lol >.> i gotta see it up close or for me to try it in person to get it.

[ODUB13]

that's retarded. clutch in, blip throttle at the same time you move the shift down a gear, then come off the clutch. simple.

[jbird123456]

What's retarded? You have the wrong technique. Its clutch in, neutral, clutch out, blip throttle, clutch in, pick a gear, clutch out, accelerate. Add some braking in the middle and in quicker succession...but you get the idea.

[ODUB13]

no asshole... brake...while braking, you clutch in, move the shifter and blip at the same time, clutch out...all while braking. go drive a fucking car then tell me how to do it. i've been racing longer than you've had your license.

[jbird123456]

I described double clutching. For cornering I do this. Brake, As I brake harder into the corner clutch in, neutral, clutch out (so gearbox is engaged, heel-toe (foot still on brake heel blips throttle), clutch in, gear, clutch out, accelerate. I track my car when I can, I am no racing driver, if you were really a racing driver then I can only imagine you losing as through every corner your engine will want to "help" with braking and unsettle the car.

[tsujimasen]

This isn't heel-toe downshifting.

This is double-clutch heel-toe downshifting. It's unnecessary for most passenger cars, but useful in racecars with unsynchronized transmissions.

[ithertzz]

but how in the bloody world are u supposed to do that so quick. on paper it sounds good and easy..a little complicated tho. but for me trying that in the real world just isnt possible. i drive an 89 honda prelude which does its job but i can hardly seem to be able to put both parts of my foot on the brake and clutch.(i donthave small feet either).

[laynlow]

oh yeah, i see it now that i watched it over a second time. i dont see how i missed it the first time. must have been sleepy.

[gpgab97]

awesome ride and mike is right this upshifting business is for streetable cars like stangs and camaros

[revil86]

its funny how he double clutches downshifts but not upshifts, probably because it's a time killer

[mike59racer]

why should he? in racecars w/o synchros there is no need to double clutch upshifts at all.

[cooluser23]

Why would you double clutch on upshifts even on street cars? I'm confused.

[tetrahydrocannabinol]

you wouldn't. Its a waste of time on up shifts. only do it on down shifts to match the rpms. it makes the downshifts smoother