Congratulations guys on the professionalism and what a great example to all pilots about how to respond and think in emergency situations. Super job and thank you for helping to make me think about being a better pilot.
Having flown Garrett powered airplanes before they have always been a problem in ice. With no bypass they first stage gets iced up easily. MU2's especially had problems with ice. I would never fly an garrett powered airplane in ice or on bush strips for that reason. Probably why no current production corp aircraft use the Garrett/Honeywell.
@airnautic; Good to be able to talk to you! I'm an ex RVN door gunner and ex ATC (Army). I can tell you from experience that to crash and burn is not a good thing. You did a miraculous job taking care of business. Kudos.
Great job from all involved. Kept cool and flew the airplane. ATC did a wonderful job communicating to the pilots in a calm voice, and gave information quickly a
Quite a show. I am happy that I have not had to deal with that particular situation while I've had my own intrigues. Makes for interesting reading and the comm kept me quiet the whole time. Pleased that they made it.
Kudos to you guys, must have been REALLY scary. You remained cool, did a wonderful job all the way down (so to say). I also have 13k hours, mostly bush time though, but never been in such bad stuff (yet). Fly safe and thanks bunches for sharing. It WILL help others down the road.
Great work! Pretty scary event and it sounds like you guys had pretty calm heads, which in a situation like that is unbelieveable. Glad it turned out well and that you are here to talk about it. Someone was definitely looking out for you!
That was gripping! Excellent job by the flight crew to stay calm and get those engines going. Excellent job by ATC to keep giving headings and staying in the game!
Wow. One thing I remember from my flight instructor was always to remain cool on the radio. I thought it was just macho talk but maybe it helps one to concentrate on what needs to be done instead of panicking. This guy should sounded like he was totally in control.
Wow, amazing to listen to. Wasn't sure why my dad (former hobby pilot) sent this to me until I heard the words "Mable Lake". We've vacationed there for the past 33 summers. I am not a pilot and don't understand any of the technical stuff you guys are talking about, but I was wondering why the airstrip at Mable Lake or Vernon Airport weren't options for an emergency landing?
When I went thru ATC training many years ago (already), we had the 'pleasure' of listening to the unedited tapes played in the classroom. It leaves an impression to a rookie, no doubt. Hearing this, albeit in an abridged version, it brings me right back to then. I've since had many, many similar, though somewhat less dire, circumstances happen to me while on duty, both in Eastern and Western Canada.They'll never compare to this (I hope). Glad you're still with us, and good job by my coworkers.
Stunning display of professionalism between the aircrew and ATC coupled with a bit of divine intervention. Long have I admired and respected those who tame the MU-2. Congratulations gentlemen...you all have one helluva story to share. God Bless...
enclosed please find the official report from the PIC of this flight splitted in several parts.
Very very good job, Moray, John and his brother!
I was the Captain of that flight and would like to add some facts and clear up some misconceptions posted by some. Firstly, I am an ATR rated commercial pilot with 13000 PIC hours in turboprop, turbojet and turbofan aircraft not an owner/operator and had extensive training in the operation of the MU2.
@airnautic I'm a ATP certificated pilot (FAA) down in the States. I listened to this twice. You did a heck of a job under the circumstances and your ATC controllers. BC is a wonderful place but you have some real mountains there too. You don't have to explain yourself to no one. I would fly with you anytime and anyplace.
exact same area i had my icing problem in 1996 - we were going down close to 500 ft/min from 10,000 ft, with full power, frozen prop pitch and no airspeed indicator in the piper dakota, in the clouds, with 4 minutes to impact. --- and ATC helped/vectored us get back to kelowna as well. major pucker factor. at least we still had our engine making noise... some really GREAT great guys there at atc.
The flight route had reported cloud tops at FL190 and we were cruising at FL230 that night, the aircraft did not have weather radar and we entered cloud, heavy ice and executed a 180 within two minutes of encountering. The anti-ice systems were on and operable according to cockpit indications. We had a tailwind of 70 plus kts and once the turn was initiated the A/C could not maintain altitude with full power, torque and temp limiters off.
We descended into the cloud layer we had been above which further exasperated the icing problem. The critical problems occurred as the engines failed due to ice ingestion from the prop hubs as we descended into warmer air. The starboard engine failed and was feathered as per emergency checklist... while descending at 4000 feet per minute the port engine failed after and a restart was attempted, but unsuccessful due too severe first stage impeller damage from ice ingestion.
The starboard engine was them unfeathered and restarted, then I attempted a second time to restart the port engine, which was successful. Interestingly, post incident inspection showed cracked bleed lines running to the engine inlets, all cockpit indications showed green, valves open but bleed air was getting dumped overboard which resulted in ice build up on the engine inlets and reduced air intake performance.
Also and most importantly, this A/C did not have the optional pilot selectable ignition modification. It was the only A/C I have flown, and authorized by the MOT and the FAA at the time, to operate in icing conditions without it, if I had that option, the engines could have relit and the emergency would not have become so dire. The company retrofitted the A/C shortly after
On another note, we descended to 3500 above SL, about 5 to 15 seconds from ground/lake impact and if not for the heroics of two IFR terminal controllers that night, Jim and his brother, who came over from a different sector and helped by transposing the radar image onto a topographical map and directing us over a valley, we would not be here, forever indebted, thanks guys. Also thanks to whoever posted this transcript, and all the encouraging posts from my fellow aviators.
@airnautic Moray, outstanding work, flying, navigation and communications. I'm sure your CRM was top notch as well. All involved should be proud. I'll be sharing this with my co-workers.
Amazing! I am always amazed at how calm the pilots sound in life and death situations. I'd been crying at the 4,000 feet per minute report- lost both engines, what an awesome crew this must have been!
MU2 has a supercritical airfoil. When ice build up, drag is inreased more than on conventional airfoils- so more power and more speed is required to keep it flying.
Never encountered belly ice on high angle of attack, but on wing and elevator, what nearly killed me once.
"In aeronautics spoilerons are flight control surfaces, specifically spoilers that can be used asymmetrically to achieve the effect of ailerons, i.e. to roll an aircraft."
Care of Wikipedia and my 10 years of experience with MU-2s.
High, the problem is not the spoiler, but the very sufficent and therefor very small elevator. Lift vektor pointing down as it should be. But does have only little safety margin for disturbed airflow.
Was trained on type std. stall and full power stalls, no bad behavior, still controllable with the spoilers- an absolute no go on aileron aircrafts. Sink rate increases dramatically, but stays full controlable in any direction. Just release elevator a bit to regain flight regime
Just listening to this got my heart going and im so happy with the result! Good job guys!!! Brilliant upload there, im sure it can reassure us all of the very real dangers of ice!
Regardless of the anti icing equipment installed on aircraft, no aircraft can withstand continued flight in severe icing. In addition to the destruction of normal airflow over the aircraft surfaces, ice adds a lot of weight to the aircraft. Even with anti icing, the loss of lift caused by the ice on the wing surfaces and the added weight will result in there not being enough engine power to stay level. If at all possible, never fly in known icing conditions.
<3
DiamondPilotDan 6 days ago
Congratulations guys on the professionalism and what a great example to all pilots about how to respond and think in emergency situations. Super job and thank you for helping to make me think about being a better pilot.
Bill
Billday2 1 week ago
Having flown Garrett powered airplanes before they have always been a problem in ice. With no bypass they first stage gets iced up easily. MU2's especially had problems with ice. I would never fly an garrett powered airplane in ice or on bush strips for that reason. Probably why no current production corp aircraft use the Garrett/Honeywell.
Av8or9557 1 week ago
nice job holding ur wits about u...keeping ur focus on the ball...real nice...
joeyb55 3 weeks ago 2
@airnautic; Good to be able to talk to you! I'm an ex RVN door gunner and ex ATC (Army). I can tell you from experience that to crash and burn is not a good thing. You did a miraculous job taking care of business. Kudos.
1SGPARKER 3 weeks ago 2
Great job from all involved. Kept cool and flew the airplane. ATC did a wonderful job communicating to the pilots in a calm voice, and gave information quickly a
Aviyaytor 3 weeks ago 2
Quite a show. I am happy that I have not had to deal with that particular situation while I've had my own intrigues. Makes for interesting reading and the comm kept me quiet the whole time. Pleased that they made it.
B747jj 4 weeks ago
Kudos to you guys, must have been REALLY scary. You remained cool, did a wonderful job all the way down (so to say). I also have 13k hours, mostly bush time though, but never been in such bad stuff (yet). Fly safe and thanks bunches for sharing. It WILL help others down the road.
cfkzego 1 month ago
I pooped in my pants just listening to this.
emp29 1 month ago
Great work! Pretty scary event and it sounds like you guys had pretty calm heads, which in a situation like that is unbelieveable. Glad it turned out well and that you are here to talk about it. Someone was definitely looking out for you!
Stack151 1 month ago
Nice work gentlemen.
cropjet1 1 month ago
Wow.... This got my pucker factor up!
N5MCF 1 month ago
My father is the voice you hear on there as ATC, John. I have known of this event most of my life but never heard the tape of it. Wow.
rhembein 1 month ago
That was gripping! Excellent job by the flight crew to stay calm and get those engines going. Excellent job by ATC to keep giving headings and staying in the game!
ORD controller...
karbunkle1 1 month ago
Great team work guys!
wa7hjv 1 month ago
Job well done by both parties. I'm glad we have you guys with us in the industry.
TheBeaver1967 1 month ago
That's one all around for the good guys and the Big Guy.
snaproll94e 1 month ago
Bravo - way to go, guys!!
lotsabears 1 month ago
I'm a 16,000 ATP with worldwide experience, and get shivers when I listen to this, as it could have been any of us.
Terrific job by all involved, this could have been tragic.
Excellent Captain, Excellent ATP overcome aircraft shortfall.,
Helismoke 1 month ago
Wow. One thing I remember from my flight instructor was always to remain cool on the radio. I thought it was just macho talk but maybe it helps one to concentrate on what needs to be done instead of panicking. This guy should sounded like he was totally in control.
ebiesdad 1 month ago
Great job to both the pilots and the ATC.
jonanthonywpg 1 month ago
Wow, amazing to listen to. Wasn't sure why my dad (former hobby pilot) sent this to me until I heard the words "Mable Lake". We've vacationed there for the past 33 summers. I am not a pilot and don't understand any of the technical stuff you guys are talking about, but I was wondering why the airstrip at Mable Lake or Vernon Airport weren't options for an emergency landing?
snowbettybc 1 month ago
Hi Moray, you were both very impressive under fire. Congratulatiuons on a job well done to both you and ATC! Best, Andy Keeney
hunter48820 1 month ago
When I went thru ATC training many years ago (already), we had the 'pleasure' of listening to the unedited tapes played in the classroom. It leaves an impression to a rookie, no doubt. Hearing this, albeit in an abridged version, it brings me right back to then. I've since had many, many similar, though somewhat less dire, circumstances happen to me while on duty, both in Eastern and Western Canada.They'll never compare to this (I hope). Glad you're still with us, and good job by my coworkers.
9991leanne 2 months ago
Professionals for sure.
Very tense, grim situation, - but everyone kept there cool, no one panicked.
agwhitaker 2 months ago
Stunning display of professionalism between the aircrew and ATC coupled with a bit of divine intervention. Long have I admired and respected those who tame the MU-2. Congratulations gentlemen...you all have one helluva story to share. God Bless...
ParataxicD 2 months ago
Good Morning friends,
enclosed please find the official report from the PIC of this flight splitted in several parts.
Very very good job, Moray, John and his brother!
I was the Captain of that flight and would like to add some facts and clear up some misconceptions posted by some. Firstly, I am an ATR rated commercial pilot with 13000 PIC hours in turboprop, turbojet and turbofan aircraft not an owner/operator and had extensive training in the operation of the MU2.
airnautic 2 months ago 13
@airnautic I'm a ATP certificated pilot (FAA) down in the States. I listened to this twice. You did a heck of a job under the circumstances and your ATC controllers. BC is a wonderful place but you have some real mountains there too. You don't have to explain yourself to no one. I would fly with you anytime and anyplace.
BH206L3 1 month ago
exact same area i had my icing problem in 1996 - we were going down close to 500 ft/min from 10,000 ft, with full power, frozen prop pitch and no airspeed indicator in the piper dakota, in the clouds, with 4 minutes to impact. --- and ATC helped/vectored us get back to kelowna as well. major pucker factor. at least we still had our engine making noise... some really GREAT great guys there at atc.
peter
potifar36 1 month ago
Was Bob Chambers the copilot on this flight?
buhwana 1 month ago
The flight route had reported cloud tops at FL190 and we were cruising at FL230 that night, the aircraft did not have weather radar and we entered cloud, heavy ice and executed a 180 within two minutes of encountering. The anti-ice systems were on and operable according to cockpit indications. We had a tailwind of 70 plus kts and once the turn was initiated the A/C could not maintain altitude with full power, torque and temp limiters off.
airnautic 2 months ago 9
We descended into the cloud layer we had been above which further exasperated the icing problem. The critical problems occurred as the engines failed due to ice ingestion from the prop hubs as we descended into warmer air. The starboard engine failed and was feathered as per emergency checklist... while descending at 4000 feet per minute the port engine failed after and a restart was attempted, but unsuccessful due too severe first stage impeller damage from ice ingestion.
airnautic 2 months ago 8
The starboard engine was them unfeathered and restarted, then I attempted a second time to restart the port engine, which was successful. Interestingly, post incident inspection showed cracked bleed lines running to the engine inlets, all cockpit indications showed green, valves open but bleed air was getting dumped overboard which resulted in ice build up on the engine inlets and reduced air intake performance.
airnautic 2 months ago 8
Also and most importantly, this A/C did not have the optional pilot selectable ignition modification. It was the only A/C I have flown, and authorized by the MOT and the FAA at the time, to operate in icing conditions without it, if I had that option, the engines could have relit and the emergency would not have become so dire. The company retrofitted the A/C shortly after
airnautic 2 months ago 10
On another note, we descended to 3500 above SL, about 5 to 15 seconds from ground/lake impact and if not for the heroics of two IFR terminal controllers that night, Jim and his brother, who came over from a different sector and helped by transposing the radar image onto a topographical map and directing us over a valley, we would not be here, forever indebted, thanks guys. Also thanks to whoever posted this transcript, and all the encouraging posts from my fellow aviators.
Moray Isaac
airnautic 2 months ago 18
@airnautic Thanks for that back story. Glad to have you still in the sky!
arkt1k 2 months ago
@airnautic Yes I was getting knots in my stomach just listening, again well done.
TheBeaver1967 1 month ago
@airnautic Moray, outstanding work, flying, navigation and communications. I'm sure your CRM was top notch as well. All involved should be proud. I'll be sharing this with my co-workers.
aligerous 1 month ago
Amazing! I am always amazed at how calm the pilots sound in life and death situations. I'd been crying at the 4,000 feet per minute report- lost both engines, what an awesome crew this must have been!
18erhammerdown 2 months ago
Great job from the crew and ATC. Valid and accurate information makes a difference!
cujet 2 months ago
I would have had to change my drawers after that deal! :D
dgmaddog652 2 months ago
Holy shitballs they were probably 500 vertical feet from death...
DiamondPilotDan 3 months ago
MU-2's notorious for "Belly" icing at high angle of attack (no heaters for the belly).
golson33 3 months ago
IFR in Heavy Precip and Icing while trying to follow a Valley?...Sheeeit!
A perfect recipe for a total fuckmare.
Lucky they did end up as a smoking hole.
The MU-2 uses Spoilerons instead Ailerons so even mild Icing can cause escalating control problems.
It's is a great aircraft but it is highly susceptible to any disturbances in airflow over the wings.
Pretty machine though.
hammerogod 3 months ago
@hammerogod Its been quite a few years since I've flown, but I seem to remember the MU-2 has spoilers, not spoilerons.
aat2bd 3 months ago
Comment removed
hammerogod 3 months ago
MU2 has a supercritical airfoil. When ice build up, drag is inreased more than on conventional airfoils- so more power and more speed is required to keep it flying.
Never encountered belly ice on high angle of attack, but on wing and elevator, what nearly killed me once.
b.r.
Wolfgang
airnautic 3 months ago
Spoilerons:
"In aeronautics spoilerons are flight control surfaces, specifically spoilers that can be used asymmetrically to achieve the effect of ailerons, i.e. to roll an aircraft."
Care of Wikipedia and my 10 years of experience with MU-2s.
Thank you for your kind indulgence.
hammerogod 3 months ago
@hammerogod
High, the problem is not the spoiler, but the very sufficent and therefor very small elevator. Lift vektor pointing down as it should be. But does have only little safety margin for disturbed airflow.
Was trained on type std. stall and full power stalls, no bad behavior, still controllable with the spoilers- an absolute no go on aileron aircrafts. Sink rate increases dramatically, but stays full controlable in any direction. Just release elevator a bit to regain flight regime
br
Wol
airnautic 3 months ago
Comment removed
hammerogod 3 months ago
2:40 (unintelligible)
"No acknowledgement necessary"
beatinguts 3 months ago
Wow, that was something, thanks for sharing this...
BigWheelHawaii 3 months ago
WOW! Major props to pilots and ATC. I said several dirty words listening to that one!! Praise God for the wonderful ending!!!
ttjoslin 3 months ago
I flew the MU-2 for about 1100 hours and I learned to really respect icing in that machine. Glad they made it!
sulako 4 months ago
Just listening to this got my heart going and im so happy with the result! Good job guys!!! Brilliant upload there, im sure it can reassure us all of the very real dangers of ice!
jvbeeeter 4 months ago
Thats gets your heart rate up :-0
jaba430 4 months ago
Thank you.
num1tailhooker 4 months ago
Great! Thanks for this post.
budandbean1 4 months ago
Regardless of the anti icing equipment installed on aircraft, no aircraft can withstand continued flight in severe icing. In addition to the destruction of normal airflow over the aircraft surfaces, ice adds a lot of weight to the aircraft. Even with anti icing, the loss of lift caused by the ice on the wing surfaces and the added weight will result in there not being enough engine power to stay level. If at all possible, never fly in known icing conditions.
num1tailhooker 4 months ago 2
@num1tailhooker
High, totally agree, had two icing incidents with the MU2.
Most pilots do not realise, that the aircrafts are rated and homolgated by the FAA to fly OUT of icing, not into or stay in for a longer period.
b.r.
Wolfgang
airnautic 4 months ago
major pucker factor
hunterTS4 4 months ago
what is the anti icing equipment?
jjsandersheli 4 months ago
@jjsandersheli
Turbine inlet heat (hot air from compressor)
Prop blades (electric heat)
leading edge of wing, elevator and rudder (pneumatic tubes)
heated windshield (hot air from compressor)
pitot and static heat (electric)
b.r.
Wolfgang
airnautic 4 months ago
In the suds, iced over, both engines out and falling at 4,000 ft/min. OMG!
TheTemest 6 months ago
amazing!,
tintipilot 8 months ago
holy. crap. this is by far the best emergency atc video on youtube. and only 1000 views??? i about peed in my own pants.
jmillski1 10 months ago
Yeah i am a big time MU-2 buff. Very well done job by atc and the pilots.
johneboy1956 1 year ago
Damn that was hard core.
TanzanianRoots 1 year ago 2