GOD SAYS HE HAS A SON.Jesus said he's God's Son-Matthew 3:17,Mark 9:7,Psalms 2:7,Luke 9:35,Prov.8:22.DEMONS,expelled said he's Son of God-Luke 4:41.Matt.8:29, Mark3:11.Others said he's Son-John1:14,49,3:17,5:18,36,6:46,10:36,Mark15:39,Matthew 26:63,27:40. Hebrews10:29,4:14.An angel said he's Son-Luke1:35.Jehovah God is Jesus' God-John15:1,16:3,30,20:17, Matt.26:26,36-44,64,Mark15:34,Ephesians1:17.Son=Mediator-1Timothy 2:5,Heb.1:3,4,8:6,9:15,12:24, Romans1:4,8,9,Acts7:55,56.
@gabbsdad 1/4th cup of oatmeal with 6 oz of almond milk every morning. Jaws go from side to side, if you mean they attach from ear to ear that's basic anatomy so congratulations on figuring that out. You're only a few thousand years behind on that. Second comment on the hair cut, is someone jealous? I notice you don't have pics of yourself on your channel, let me guess you look like you got hit in the face with the broad side of a 2x4.
@TimKilgore No need to get nasty. I was only pointing out some aspects of your appearance. From my point of view you look like someone who likes beeeens for breakfast. Do you have a wife? Is she as good looking as you?
@gabbsdad Been married 9 years, my wife's legitly a model and former beauty queen. Please put up pics of yourself so I can comment as well, I know how much you keyboard commandos can dish out but can't take pussy.
@TimKilgore well most of the magic in the bible comes from god, true some does come from wizards, and false gods, but the view on it is frowned upon, like how pharoah's magicians failed agaisnt gods magic, and demonic magic never wins. unlike the fairly odd parents show where it seems so innocent and awesome to have a demonic magic fairy. when in reality true magic should only be from god, not some magic wand.
Easy. Magic that came from the bible was from god, magic used nowadays is from "demons and satan" two different types of magics, the satanic one like Harry potters is not one that should be allowed because of all the witchcraft. When they made the snake "idol" they did not bow down and start worshipping it, so it wasn't much of a idol was it. Unlike the golden calf and false gods.
@TimKilgore well most of the magic in the bible comes from god, true some does come from wizards, and false gods, but the view on it is frowned upon, like how pharoah's magicians failed agaisnt gods magic, and demonic magic never wins. unlike the fairly odd parents show where it seems so innocent and awesome to have a demonic magic fairy. when in reality true magic should only be from god, not some magic wand.
@noobs643biach So then you have come to a giant circle and never answered the question. The incident of Pharoah's magicians they were doing real magic right? You would encourage your kids to read about it right? Now Harry Potter is about magic but admittedly fake magic. So why can't they read about fake magic but are encouraged to read about real magic? Seems rather hypocritical to me.
@TimKilgore while the real magic story is showing how bad magic is and how it WONT suceed, the fake magic by harry potter is making people say "oh look magic is so cool and amazing i want to try it!" its basically teaching us a lesson from god, wheras harry potter is more for entertainment purposes
My nose has been broken four times, while I'm wrestling I'm not going to get an operation to fix it because it could all be undone by one errant punch. Please enlighten me dear, what exactly am I lying about? Please be specific. Ad hominem attacks are worthless if the ugliest person on the planet makes a point does his grotesqueness somehow invalidate his point?
We don't tell anyone what they CAN'T do, just what the Bible and God agree with. I am a very religious Jehovah's Witness woman and I am a HUGE Tolkien fan, a Trekkie and a big time Sci-fi / FANTASY gamer. The dude who wrote this question needs to actually READ the bible. It just sounds ignorant. You/whoever REALLY needs to check your scriptures - King James Version even! Any JW could easily answer all of your questions - including ME! :) If you genuinely want JW answers you can always ask me :).
@valaurwen I'm ignorant of the scriptures eh? So the bible doesn't have sympathetic magic in it? Funny that you say any JW could easily answer my questions, yet elders, CO's and even Bethelites have yet to be able to. There were trekkie fans in my congregation too but that didn't have magic in it. Would you mind bringing some Magic cards or D&D to the congregation for me and see what happens? Then we can discuss the magic parts of the bible.
haha YES! Actually I have. I got some of the other kids into Warhammer Fantasy tabletop and D&D. My father played as well (but he thinks it's for nerds now lol). I used to play Magic the Gathering. I never hid any fo that! When my cards fell out of my bag in field service one of the elders and other cong members just laughed and shook their heads at what a dork I am. It's personal opinion not rule. We are to avoid "magic practicing". It may bother some but I am not practicing magic.
Because it is entirely a conscience matter to play FANTASY games using magic or see FICTIONAL movies (Cinderella uses magic so does Beauty & the Beast - some witnesses believe those to be wrong and some don't) about magic no one ca say "this/that is wrong". That is THEIR conscience, not mine. Jesus said it is unlawful to press your opinion on anyone as law/rule so the cong isn't supposed to. Tht is a corrupt practice and my cong doesn't ever do that - I guess I'm in a way fortunate.
@valaurwen Setting yourself as the bar doesn't mean that's how it is for the rest of JW's. I was one when I was a kid, and I got in trouble numerous times for the Tolkien books. For some reason Trekkie stuff was always OK with all the JW's I knew even though I thought it was comparable.
Btw don't get me wrong. Not everyone is going to be so comfortable with my playing DnD or Warhammer Fantasy etc etc. Many MANY parents who AREN'T JWs aren't comfortable with DnD and that sort of thing because their kids get extremely lost in the game - become obsessive. It's just a matter of personal opinion and behavior. But I know witnesses who believe that eating Lucky Charms cereal is wrong -_- lol. Hey as long as they don't try to press that on me I'm good! That's THEIR opinion.
@valaurwen So the question would remain though, for those who believe it's wrong to play DnD etc, why would they view it as wrong to read/play games involving FICTIONAL magic but it would be OK to read REAL cases of magic occurring in the bible? Oh and BTW would you mind if I cited the 20 or so WT articles that point out what you're doing with DnD etc as being wrong and that a Christian shouldn't do it?
By all means do point out in recent literature where it tells me that it's WRONG to play DnD or other such fantasy games. Additionally, if you consider biblical miracles "real magic" then that is your prerogative - we (and most Christian/Jewish/Muslim groups) consider them divine occurrences. So that you know, the case with Jacob and the spotted goats is not "magic". It's actually a scientifically proven and very ancient practice that goatherders have been using now for millenia.
@valaurwen What you're doing here is moving the goalposts, I said I would point out in WT that what you say is OK to do has been written about being wrong. Now you've added it has to be recent, if I quote something from the 80's even if it's the last time it was ever mentioned you will no doubt move the goalposts further and say that it's not recent enough. As for the "magic" I wasn't aware the magic the pharoah's magicians did was divine, that's in the bible, that's real.
The reason that I say "recent" is because A TON of their stances and beliefs have changed since the 80s and become much more accepting and directly bible based. It was influenced by a lot of opinion back in the 80s. One thing about Jehovah's WItnesses Organization is that they have no problem admitting that they were wrong or too stringent and then changing it to be more in line with the scriptures. We strive to be as scriptural as possible and that means not enforcing opinions.
@valaurwen So there in lies the dilemma, how recent is recent? If there are no articles changing the stance "New Light" would that mean that the stance is still the same? For example the last article about men not having beards was written in 1967, yet that's still the stance in the US since nothing has been written retracting it. So how recent is recent? If I post an article will you then tell me it needs to be more recent even if there's no retraction?
Actually the last article that I remember about men not having beards in the US was earlier this year. Anything that they have not corrected or changed their stance on still applies as guidance for us. If they have not "changed their stance" on something than it's still the same - there are no unspoken and unwritten changes in belief or practice. How recent is "recent"? Simply whatever is the latest article regarding a certain point (even if the "latest" was from 1945), that's all..
@valaurwen Bear in mind it's been about a month passed 9 years since I've set foot in a Kingdom Hall, so the most recent I might not know about. However if you're telling me you will accept the most recent mentioning of a stance on something like DnD well then I guess I can quote an article from I believe it was around 1973 where DnD is singled out as being demonistic.. Is one article sufficient when I post the year, date and page number?
lol Yes absolutely. However, please note that there have been many articles since 1973 referring to the playing of vide games, fantasy games, and other forms of recreation (in fact as recent as this year) that specifically call such games "a conscience matter". The most recent article mentioning DnD specifically is 8/22/1999. I can inbox you exactly what it says if you like. The stance is very clear. It is simply a warning of the dangers of getting lost in such RP-games is all :).
Hey........ okay so I kind of pre-emptively sent you the article (I copied and pasted it from the Watchtower Index which you can get from the JW watchtower(dot)org website). I hope you don't mind! It's just that I may be pasisng out a bit soon as I'm getting a headache and I didn't want to leave you hanging in case you did want me to show you the article. Ciao!
@valaurwen:your statement is unadulterated bullshit, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society strongly condemns anything not approved of in its doctrine, i don't know what congregation you belong to but it certainly isn't even close to the one i attended (if you're being honest) where every thing a member of the congregation did was scrutinized and judged, even to the point of some members being spied on by other members, the WBTS is a harmful and dangerous cult.
Don't bother to respond to such retardation pls. The internet always has it's abundance of bridge trolls. Your nose looks fine! Wth? I honestly appreciate your openness to discussing things instead of flatly sticking with an idea. I always strive to do the same thing. Ppl like Geraldine are despicably un-Christian. We are to love and care for even our enemies. Not that you're an "enemy" but you get what I mean lol. So just saw the comment. I'm truly sorry that you experienced that.
Please read Matthew 5:43-48 and Romans 12:17-21. Learn what it means to be a Christian please before you go around soiling the name of Jehovah. Hateful words and behavior like this is what makes it so hard for honest and genuine Jehovah's Witnesses. Such hate and oppression from congregations of ppl like you is what often creates an apostate. Please think next time before you speak/respond. "Be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, and slow about WRATH." -James 1:19. Thanks.
I once heard that a bunch of Jehovahs Witnesses went to a heavy metal concert (that alone is a bit questionable in the eyes of JWs) and the lead singer said that the devil was going to play the guitar.
When the Guitar didn't start playing he asked if any JWs were in the building and could they please leave.
When would you actually address the question in the video instead of engaging in an ad hominem attack like I asked in my first video in the series? You don't have a picture up on your youtube or any videos of yourself, have you heard the phrase "those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"?
Hrmmm what would JESUS do! Would JESUS read lil fucking fantasy books who's main character happens to be a sorcerer...NO! So there's your fucking answer you fucking idiot! LOL hey I had to put it as simplified as I can!
Do the scriptures go into what Jesus read outside of his ministry? I got a great question for you, what would Jesus do if someone disagreed with him? You give me your answer and I'll show you it's wrong from the scriptures and you can see Jesus didn't do alot of the things you would attribute him with when you say WWJD.
Damn how many damn questions are you going to ask....shit lol what a loser! If you don't like Jehovah's witness' then stay the fuck away from them....shit....it's just that simple you moron! Lol Ok now I see you are started to question your right to practice witchcraft or voodoo! Your attack is not against Jehovah's Witness,' but it's against GOD's word as well! Fucking moron!
I do mention in my first video to avoid ad hominem attacks I won't warn you again. I do stay away from JWs, did you watch my first video or if I can turn a phrase you use, or are you that much of a fucking moron that you can't be bothered to watch the first video of a series before commenting on the series?
as far as sacraficing... it states in Psalms 40:6 Sacrafice and offering you did not delight in . jehovah did not approve these kinds of sacrafices. the book of leviticus clearly talks about all the laws jehovah gave the isrealites. and the types of SPECIFIC sacrafices that were pleasing in jehovahs eyes. of course they had to make these sacrafices as noted in leviticus because jesus hadnt been sent down to give himself as the ransom sacrafice which is the ultimate, to buy back what adam lost.
as far as casting spells and practicing such things is not acceptable in Gods eyes. He shuns out those who practice it and warns us to sustain from being involved wether acting it out or indulging in it for entertainment purposes. I respect your beliefs in this subject but I disagree as well. we as jehovahs witnesses warn all who have any such involvement with anything magical to sustain from it.. for it does not originate with god.
in the case with harry potter, you may think that it`s no harm...becaue people say. : it`s just a movie:. But where does this reallyoriginate from? Satan uses anything he can to make people think something as harmless as a harry potter movie could never do us harm. But as imperfect humans we sometimes wish we can do things magical like portrayed in our harmless harry potter books and movies. The ultimate goal all in all is.. We must focus on our grand creator Jehovah god and his promises!!!
Out of your comments here this is the one that actually deals with the stuff in the video. What's the difference now in reading about magic in the bible and reading about magic in a story. Other than the fact one is admittedly fake and the other actually happened. How do you know as imperfect humans we won't try some of the magic mentioned in the bible?
because as imperfect humans beings we sometimes want to dabble into the other side satan wants us to dabble into those things because he knows that it is against gods laws. that why is it in your best intrest to really seek why JW`s abstain from such practices because they all originate with the god of this world which is satsn. and the bible also tell you who the ruler of this world is!!! hope you respond back. I would love to help you understand. but at no means am i forcing you to!
I understand what you're saying, you're kind of reitterating what you've said previously. Are you saying that reading a book of admittedly pretend magic will get someone to try real magic, but reading accounts of real magic won't? Dear, I will always respond to you as long as you refrain from ad hominem attacks.
light. he blinds the minds of the unbelievers. which is brought out in 2Corithians 4:4. and in 1 timothy 4:1speaks of the god of this system of things which is satan will cause some to fall away from the truth by using his demons as the teachers. any and all spiritistic movies and games gives way for entrance of satan and his demons into our homes. We must sustain from these fantacy magical things that to you and many other may seem frivilous but in our eyes they only spawn from one diety.SATAN
well the bible talks about magic practicing priests in numerous scriptures. Ge. 41:8 Ex. 7:11 ; 9:11 Da 1:20, 2:2, and 4:7 but Jehovah never approved of their practices. Read what it says in Galations 5 19-21. it specificaly talks about acts of spiritism. What people believe to be magical is not with god. they will not inherit gods kingdom. the kind of magic people see on t.v nowadays is nothing compared to what happened in biblical days. satan is the ruler of the world and poses as a devine..
The Bible does contain magic along with fornication, adultery, lies, ect. But this doesn't mean it encourages it. A person can read/study an event but it is far from the same as engaging in the act. I can spend years studying the assassination of JFK and the lessons to learn from it, but no matter how much I study it, I'll never b the one who pulled or helped to pull the trigger(s).
I'm not saying the bible encourages it, this is aimed at the parents out there who won't let their kids read Harry Potter because of magic being in the book then hands them an illustrated book of Exodus. It seems rather hypocritical, one is an admittedly fake book containing fake magic, the other is a real book with real acts of magic in it. Why is one OK and the other isn't?
Oh sorry another one. I was playing street fighter the video game. My grandmother bursts in the room and in her italian voice goes "whats this? your playing satana (devil), why...why you fight satana?" I couldent help but laugh my head off
OK check this one. This kid i knew had a bad dream about pokemon. Then his mum decided that Pokemon men demon. Serious. Next thing you kno all the children had to throw away all there pokemon toys. Infact my brother had a post, so my grandmother paid him 10 pounds to take it down, as it was demonic. LOL.
It also ruins so many lives, and all for the sake of making a few rich men, who see it as nothing more than a pyramid scheme, richer. At least benny hinn puts on a show.
Its so hard to believe that people just close their eyes to every bit of logic and evidence in order to hold onto this stuff. I cant believe I was suckered in, though I was 5 when they scrubbed my mind
I had a door visit 2 weekends ago and I brought up these points. They promised to come back next week after they looked into it, I was actually disappointed when they were a no show.
Actually Tim, I was reponding to that yo yo and this is the page the link brought me to, as I was unable to post directly to him. Sorry for muddling your page, feel free to erase them
It's OK man, I only delete comments that threaten violence (and even them I barely do). I think you hit too many points for them to go into. Not that they will :)
This rebuttle was for rtrnoa... Tim, I like what youre doing here... I dont know why we waste our time on people like rtrnoa who rebut with such shallow and poorly researched stuff, but I guess we must
I submit to you that JW and the WTS are man made entities and are corrupt, therefore any truth you try to preach under their banner is also corrupt. You cannot serve clean water in a dirty glass. If you feel the need to rebut this message, please at lease take the time to reseach and verify what I have told you, as I would gladly offer you the same courtesy whether I agree with you or not
You can check and see that the wts claim 1.8 billon dollars annually. That the cross and crown were the original symbols... so many changes in doctrine, predictions etc... countless allegations proven and not of child sexual abuse by elders.
Hey there Dave, are all these comments to this video or to a comment on here? It's kind of hard to string through them all. There are several videos with specific subjects, you might want to comment specifically to those so each one of your points are addressed individually instead of lumped together at once. When that is done usually stuff is missed entirely.
This is absolutely verifyable. You will see that judge Joe ( who wasnt even a judge) was an alcoholic who used the money from the WTS to fund his lavish existance, with two cadilacs, fine brandy and cigars and two lavish fully fortified homes, all during the depression and all under the pretence that the patriarchs were going to come back and live there. Also verifiable.
Finally, if you are a seeker of truth, you will look into the founders and governers of the organization you follow. You will find from russels own writtings that most of his dates and numbers come from the pyramids of giza, and not the bible.
You would also look into the making of the NWT and find out which version they based it on, and the changes ( some more subtle than others) they made and how it works for them.
And if it is, Which version of the Bible? the NWT? I am pretty sure no matter what I present to you, you have your mind made up but if you are truly a student of the bible, you would delve into all the facts... ie the councels of hippo and nicea, constantines roll in the making of the bible... why certain scrtiptures were deemed apocryphal and others cannon.
. If you have any knowlege of the history of the making of the new testament cannon as we know it today, with all its cut and paste and political and religious intrigues, how can you believe that it is the word of god?
You say that the bible says that the bible is the word of god. Thats like saying the book of mormon says its the word of god. You cant use the same book to prove itself.
when youve been brainwashed for beetnhs, you feel the need to ask the questions that he's asking. Questions you were taught were wrong to ask, like, why is it so bad to use something that has a pagan origin like birthdays? things in our daily live we come across have many roots in Pagan beliefs. Whats next? are the JWs gonna change the names of the days of the week, or the calander alltogether? if you look, you will find the lies behind the "truth"
lots questions..Diference between bible's teachings and other literature in regards to idols..magic etc is:Bible says that "whole scripture is inspired from God " and given us humans to learn from it.
Lots of exampels like u mentioned happened and they were brought up in Bible to show us they exsist.
When you ask urself such questions u have to follow up to see what did Jehova alone said obut em..did he aprove em or no..so keep up reading u find His disaproval. Miracles ..wonders question..
We humans don't have power alone to manifest any kind of miracles.
They are either from Real God made at apropriate time and in times where that was neccesary. Bible says and show examples where god Explained how he feels about them..
Literature beside bible make kids/readers think in back of mind that there is magic..kids make illusions which can lead to lots of problems but that literature never say in it both sides..is that correct or wrong..it is just represented as it is and that is dangerous cuse that literature in numb words saying to reader eveerything is posible it doesnot have to be God.. that is dangerous..and that is one of differences i could find many more but no time..
Literature makes kids think in the back of their mind that there is magic, but the bible teaches them outright that it exists. Literature is not presented as being absolute truth, in fact it's known as being fake, the bible on the other hand...
I happen to know first hand about the smurf scare and the Dand D scare> JWs lie, its pure and simpe. they Dont tell you the history of thier organization, the house that Joe built or Russels 1914 prediction based on pyramid dimensions. In fact most people in the "truth" wouldnt even know about those things because they blindly follow the man made doctrines of those men in the WS. "brother" Fanz own brother disowned him. your attackers just havent bothered to do the research & are just insulting
Please watch my first video which explains in detail why I'm doing this and that I have indeed asked JWs these questions and the results I have. These are questions, they are open ended, I don't see how asking a question about a teaching proves it wrong.
if you HONESTLY want to know the answers to these questions then ask a witness you know. it hard to believe that be making these videos you sincerely want to know the answers. it seems like your just trying to prove the religion to be false. if thats the case then i just want to know why? why is it so important to you to prove witnesses wrong? if you dont believe it then thats your choice, why not just leave it at that?
Could you tell me why the JW'S are so sure that they and not Israel are the 144.000 talked abt in Revelation and also why can't you have communion unless your 1 of the 144.000, how would you know if your 1 of the 144.000? What are the criteria for being 1 of the 144.000?
Ad hominem hmmm....if that applied to me which it doesnt because I can go all day arguing with you because I would be really surprised darlin if you read the bible all the way thru or if you are just going alon with the crowd on this one, No I just just am not gonna argue with someone that is hanging on the coat tails of someone else and trying to act like he knows what he is talking about. Just look at your videos each video there is no love or consideration anywhere it is hello here is a
Could you tell me why the JW'S are so sure that they and not Israel are the 144.000 talked abt in Revelation and also why can't you have communion unless your 1 of the 144.000, how would you know if your 1 of the 144.000? What are the criteria for being 1 of the 144.000?
question and I am going to ask it with a pompous attitude cause I think I am so smart and I am so much better then you. I dont know what your problem is but I am pretty sure that the jehovah's witnesses didnt have anything to do with it.
So really do you have any actual answers to the question or are you just trying to throw insults because attacking the questioner so as to discredit the question without ever addressing it? Saying weekly bible study is required and I was a JW for 20 years I've actually read through the whole bible about 7 times. I don't call what you do arguing, you just insult, arguing means you have a point which you don't, your point is to insult.
all I am saying is that you are not saying anything positive it is all negative and a little bit twisted because you know that when you were a witness it wasnt at all as bad as what you are saying. And I am not insulting you as you claim I just all of a sudden stick up for a religion and you accuse me of things.
I never did say it was all bad did I? I said that when I had questions I never got answers. Saying I have a pompous attitude and asking if I was dropped on my head are insults dear, which in a debate is an ad hominem attack. They don't have anything to do with the question and are basically used to discredit the questioner without addressing their statements. Now you're using a red herring about all bad to go on a different subject when you still haven't addressed this video.
The main thing to remember here though is that Jehovah is not performing miracles [magic] for us in this day. And you certainly wouldn't need to go through rituals or put up signs and idols to access his power. ALL worship to other gods would be very harmful to you and make you a part of the world. Those who are true christians should really be being shunned from the world and have real magicians against them. God's magic lies in throwing off the material and waiting for him to repay in secret.
I should've specified in this video more, we're talking the difference between reading about real magic in the bible and acts of fake magic. Everyone is discussing real magic vs Jehovah's Miracles. That's not what I'm talking about, it's not even comparing apples to oranges, it's comparing apples to fake oranges.
hmm... well fake magic is just kinda fancy illusions and slight of hand with some psychology thrown in. It's entertainment which was it's roots in imitating the skills of the old real magicians. Personaly I dont see any problem with the entertainment type... but I think you'll find the advanced stuff gets into real magic anyway.
The issue here though is where the magic comes from. Demonic magic carries their symbols signs down through the ages and has an agenda to lead you to sin. MOST modern media has the signs, symbols, philosophies and subliminal suggestions to try to driect you away from Jehovah and his principles. Obviously things dealing with magic tend to actually be quite overt... and probably LESS dangerous in reality. Do research on NLP and hypnotic suggestion to see why most media is dangerous.
The issue here is who you turn to for the magical power. It would appear that Solomon was a magician... and Daniel would have been familiar with all the practises of babylon too. Ultimately real magic is looking to the spirits to make things happen for you. I am pretty sure that Jehovah performing miracles and demons performing them are similar. However Jehovah's motivation is love and harmony, the demons is stimulating ego. And obviously Jehovah is more powerful.
Look up the word's occult,supernatural,witch, warlock. Dungeons and dragons dealt with demons, whats missing in all these examples? God! the miracles in the bible 100% of the time are attributed to God, even Jesus gave credit to God, Harry Poter does not! Didnt "Mr K" say he reads the bible? even the King James version denounces anyone binding someone with a spell, so again, where are the hard questions, these should be easy for a person raised in this religion, who listened to so many talks =)
Isn't it wierd that God and Satan are doing the same things? One would think that if the chief of good and the chief of evil are resorting to the same tactics you might want to re-examine things. The question is about real vs. fake, I'd like to congratulate you for finally using your third logical fallacy here, that of the straw man.
Hey wow, that's the first logical answer I've gotten. Thank you so much for the comment. I would understand that in cases of real magic from evil, however not allowing pretend stories seems a little overboard still.
Allot of JW kids tend to be sci fi fans "trekies" since all the fantasy stuff was banned by their parents, Some JW parents are more permissible then others.
The Smurfs doll tale is a old one, I heard it when I was a kid,There is also variations of the same story were its one of those old "troll" dolls instead of a Smurf.
because God allows power from his holy spirit to act in some situations, call it miracles etc, or whatever you want, but the opposite also has power ie satan, and he has a huge influence (1john 5:19) so be carefull which one you meddle with Gods power or satans, satan wants you to believe some lies and harry potter books etc, are based on that lie, the undead, magic powers etc. the bible which is far more interesting unravels which is the lie and which is the truth Gods or satans, simple really
Real magic by God is OK to read about, pretend stories about magic occuring like Dungeons and Dragons or Harry Potter is not OK to read about. One really happened, one is completely make believe. Am I getting you right?
take the case of moses and the pharaoh, he used magic to produce a snake and moses did the same but that snake ate pharaohs so the point is, God has power, and wherever pharaoh got power from it was useless.
The word "magic" is derived from the name "magi," an ancient Persian priestly caste that specialized in cultic activities
magic comes under 3 categories, mystical, exploitative, and entertainment,
see leviticus 19:11, that is why christians should not read HP.
I thought the point of Moses snake eating the Pharoh's was basically "My God's stronger than your God". Which all of the 10 plagues dealt with a power of one of their Gods. The whole situation reeks of "My God's Magic is better". Lev 19:11 doesn't mention magic in it at all. Either way, isn't all the talk against magic part of the Mosaic Law, which Jesus then got rid of?
leviticus 19:11, speaks about not dealing falsely with people which is what most magicians do, any way you are skirting around the point, God does not do magic, as i pointed out the 3 types as above, but satan and his demons do, and we should avoid it. now you want to discuss mosaic law and Jesus new commandment?, well read matth 5:17-20, we are today looking at 'spiritual israel', Gods laws were never wrong or time related, they exist right to the end, but his chosen people changed.
Let's take a look at the action itself, God turns a rod into a snake, Satan turned a rod into a snake. In both cases a rod turns into a snake, why should one be called a miracle and one be called magic, the exact same thing happened. Angels perform miracals, was Satan not an Angel? As for Matt 5:17-20, that's good that proves that Jesus said opposite things in opposite books, we can play bible ping pong on things he said all day.
as i explained God does not do magic because it implies he is deceptive no that tag lays squarely with satan yes he may have been an angel but not anymore 2 corin 4:4 anyway what portion does darkness have with light? even if you were an atheist you would know that there is Gods way and the opposite is satans way, why is this complicated? God performs miracles, satan cannot so he decieves with spiritism black arts, magic etc etc. i dont think this is a 'tough question' at all
All you're doing is saying when God does something it's called a miracle, when Satan does the SAME EXACT THING it's called magic. Genesis doesn't say Pharoh's magicians through trickery did the same thing as Moses, they did the same thing as Moses. They did the same exact thing. So if you're calling Moses' rod turning into a snake a miracle then the Pharoh's magicians performed that same miracle. You can't change the definition of an act just because it suits what you want to believe.
i DO get your point, it is completely different when God does something to when satan does it ie, matthew 12:22-26, what do you make of this?, why did not jesus say, 'what difference does it make,i cured him didnt i'? and in 12:27, he reasons with them about THEIR powers, what is the point of this portion of scripture?" What could the Pharisees say? They would never acknowledge that their disciples acted under Satan's power!! ok we have established TWO powers, one is GOD one is satan
does it not make sense to you that God is greater than satan?will not God destroy him in the end? you have touched on something quite fundemental here about JW teaching satan accused God of being a liar Gen 3:4 and God states in Gen 3:15 he is condemned. in luke 4 we see satan and jesus discuss power etc satans whole purpose is to blind people he is a master of disguise Gen 3:1,Gods purpose is to save, matth 24:14 2peter 3:9, so when the final battle comes. decide whos power you will depend on..
also what is the point of 2corin 11:14? why cant satan just be himself?, why does he have to fool people into thinking he is an angel of light?, it is because he would not get away with his type of magic, people would be wary of it, so he makes on he is Godlike, and then people accept it as it is now from a GOOD source, is the point really clear now, or maybe you dont want these'tough' questions to be answered, what would you do if someone actually did logically answer it?
Too. Many. Scriptures... LOL. I would love the questions to be answered, Fedetor has come the closest to answering one logically. His answer still brings up some questions but I can totally see his point of view. I understand about Satan's power vs. God's power, but the definition of the same thing two different ways I feel is rather hypocritical. I could see a christian keeping children away from something specifically referencing how to do dark arts by Satan or demons...
The thing is you will encourage them to read about rods being turned into snakes, people being turned into wild beasts, and even divination in the bible which is told as being 100% real. But something that references these same things AND in a totally 100% pretend way is viewed as dangerous. Even if it doesn't reference anything Satanic at all, what if Harry Potter went to a far off Monistary to become a prophet and learned Miracles would that be OK to read?
when we study the bible, all the pieces fall into place,and the little questions start to be answered, if a scientist said to einstien,E=M........it would not make sense. so your question is 'what is the difference?,it all sounds the same, magic miracles, God ,satan, and to a child whats the point?, well its about taking sides, God wants us to be happy so he says avoid this or that, like a dad to a son, we trust him because no dad (normally) would decieve a..
....his son,we protect our children from what we as adults know is dangerous. it may look harmless to a young mind, like ouija boards etc, but people have invoked terrible things and been frightened, God says stay away as a protection, so what may seem confusing, divination etc can be explained, but deep things are not available to ones with the wrong heart condition God draws us and opens hearts and minds but humility is needed.athiests will never understand the bible only God reveals the truth
This doesn't really have to do with taking sides, heart conditions or anything. That argument about for protection and so forth, as a JW I was told stories of crosses causing demonic expiriences. Obviously christians feel protected by crosses. To me it seems that crosses are the victim of someone's overactive imagination. I don't see how it's about taking sides, it's saying an action is good for one person to do and evil if another does it.
A good example would be faith healing, if someone heals in God's name that is good. If someone heals in Ra's name that would be bad? The person is still healed right? More apprapo to this situation would be forcing your child to read about a guy named Bob healing the sick, then forbidding them from reading about a fictional account of Jim doing the same exact thing.
well, you asked the question, what is the difference between 'GOD doing something and satan doing the same. so it IS about taking sides, i have proved that satan is a deciever, and no one likes being decieved, so if something appears to be good, people think its ok, but the scriptures in exodus show the Egyptians gods were no match for Jehovah, there magic was a charade, a gimmick, Gods power swept it aside, so that is why i serve him and not satan. re; the cross, people turn them upside down ..
All you've said is that God does something it's good and Satan does the same thing it's bad. The only reason you've given is effectively because. My God is better than your God is effectively the story of every holy book. It still doesn't answer why is reading about real magic OK and pretend stories not ok. Because one is evil based on effectively "cause I said so" is not an answer.
as i was saying, people turn crosses upside down to invoke satan they are used in black arts, and yes ojects can be possesed, we are not dealing in recreation here tim, this is serious, so if you think it is ok to teach children that it is harmless to dabble in satans form of magic, and it is the same as Gods, well its up to you, but people have been damaged by fooling with spiritism even possesed, and i trully think it is irresponsible of you to condone it and if you ask any JW a bible question
....they will not shy away from answering it, even if is 'tough', have you tried your local church with the same challenge?, every JW will give the same answer about your questions, perhaps their personalities are different or their illustrations, but it will be consistant, as we all rely on the bible and not human philosophy, so why do this?, why not have a bible study the 'live' discussion is better as this does not really work. i really hope you find what you seek
I mentioned in my introduction video why I'm doing the series and I have asked the questions while I was a witness. I think we're talking about two different things, if my child was practicing REAL magic then I might object. I feel that is QUITE different than reading an obviously pretend story of magic, it's hypocritical to say "You must read this story of REAL magic in the Bible" but this fake story "You can't read". Demon possession is in the bible, wouldn't reading that be dangerous?
to keep our thinking in harmony with that of Jehovah duty is placed on the individual Christian. when some of the Ephesians publicly renounced their practice of spiritism and became Christians Paul did not take it upon himself to burn their books, but "a number of them who had practised magic collected their books and made a bonfire of them in public (Acts 19:19) Why did these Christians feel it necessary to burn their own books?
So they practiced magic based on these books. Once again you're confusing books of REAL magic like the one mentioned in the Bible AND the bible itself. This is about reading FICTIONAL works of PRETEND magic vs. reading acts of real magic. You're comparing watching a UFC fight to the Three Stooges.
Tim, there is no REAL magic, there is Gods power, and there is satans efforts to copy it, and those efforts are fictional or deception etc, so by reading this fictional stuff you are making kids think it is ok to escape into this fantasy world of deception, it wont harm me, but it does, it blurs the lines between good and evil, satan uses comedy, and so called 'harmless' entertainment to work his way in, he doesnt care how, so as JW's we avoid ALL types of fiction involving spiritism & magic
Ah, NJGoldsmith I want to thank you for commenting on this and not getting too steamed from my follow up. I believe if I start on your comments about Satan using various things (comedy, entertainment and blurring the lines between good and evil) I may never stop. And I will be guilty of moving to another subject.
the bible covers all subjects, if not by law then by principle, if we live by it then we will please God and become better people. there is little point in watering it down to please all, it will just turn into a harry potter novel. the bible is Gods word and should not be compared to mans writings. as a JW i cannot let it be slandered even though my comments may be weak, i fear no man nor his philosophy, because the bible always proves true while man always proves to be a liar
I understand the dedication to the bible, it has to be right lest your whole way of life be shattered. Well keep doing your research maybe in time your arguments will be stronger than they were here.
Jesus himself could have explained it much better, but i doubt if it would have made a diference. it was the same with the pharisees, he never got through to them either, as i said it has to do with the heart condition. our strength that we gain from Gods word leaves us less likely to be 'shattered' than those who trust in man.I did not give you 'my' opinion but that of the scriptures, so it is God himself talking to you, through the bible, it is to him that we all answer.
i am too busy studying Gods word to go off into tangents with every disgruntled witness ie, if you wanted to be an expert on counterfiet money you would not travel the world looking at every fake note! no you would examine a REAL note untill it became so familiar that if someone passed a fake you would know straight away, so it is with the TRUTH and Gods word the bible, i can spot a fake philosophy or an attack on the bible dressed up as 'debate' a mile away. i look to the bible for my 'answer'
Well I'm glad you're not too busy to find time to comment on my videos. For your example, you're telling me a counterfeiter wouldn't tell you his is the genuine article. If you're simply taking a man's word for it, you could be studying a counterfeited bill all the while thinking it's the real bill, then when the actual real bill is presented you will reject it because it did not meet the qualifications of the counterfeit you thought was true.
only one thing, where DO you go for the real note?, if like you i was in the 'world' ie, satans world, everyone would be passing the false note, so i would not go there, i bank with God, he helps to identify the true note by the 'holy spirit fake note detector',so i dont need to guess 'is this real'? like you do. the bible says the world is 'veiled' or blindfolded, how on earth is it possible to tell a counterfeit note when you cant see?
You're stating exactly what I stated. My question is on the "holy spirit fake note detector" are you saying that God is specifically telling you which is the true "note" or religion? Because unless God is actually telling you, you're still relying on man to tell you which is the right note. And hence a counterfeiter could be telling you he's right when actually he's wrong.
yes im saying God is actually telling me which is false and which is true. prior to him telling me i asked all the other religions i asked the philosophers i asked the top scientists, politicians and such, how did i do this? well i had a question for them and their books proposed the answer,but not satisfied i asked God through prayer and he responded by sending a JW and revealing the truth through Gods word the bible, the JW only showed me where to look and i myself found the answer to life
You're assuming here that a person in a highly emotional state cannot be duped. There are thousands of people who all say they prayed for God to reveal himself and that he responded by sending a representative. Cat Stevens said that's the exact reason he converted to Islam. Why would God answer your prayer correctly and all those other people's falsely?
first of all, not everyone saying 'lord lord will enter the kingdom of heaven' every person on earth has a spiritual need, but one thing seperates false religion from true. murder/killing. how many religions do you know that do not kill? so not only does one pray one has to bring his life in to line with Gods will, and THEN God will answer, but untill then it is MEN that people follow, no matter how zealous or sincere they may be. if they kill or agree with it (war etc)it is false religion.
Ah exactly, these people are sincere and sincerely believe that what they are following is truth. They all think God pointed them to that religion, and you think God pointed you to JWs. Who's right and who's misled, only God knows for sure. So if I found a quote that agreed with killing from the Watchtower you would say they were a false religion? Bear in mind Buddhists are strict pacifists, so are Quakers, and Amish...I'm sure there are more.
you are correct and getting closer to the truth than you realise, it is a process of elimination, so we are left with JWs Quakers Amish Buddhists and you struggled to find more, well discount the Buddhists as japan has an army now with the other two we have to go the the bible are you prepared to do that? you see we are not brainwashed and going on zeal alone, we find Gods purpose, the same way we find the real note close examination, and no-one can do that for you, yes i am sure God pointed me
You're sure that God pointed you, but other people are sure God pointed them too. I do ask again though, if I found a WT article or book that encouraged violence against other humans would you say they were a false religion?
well you make it sound as if you want me to fit into your box, without digging any deeper, you are easily satisfied by simple explanations. God wants people to get to know him, but he sets standards for worship as he is a God of order, i see little order in the religions around me, i see them kill each other, and neglect bible teachings, THIS leads me to believe they are false and so i am left with the religion that is closest to Gods word, not by man or watchtower or anything, just Gods word
i sense a trap here so i will say this, it is possible for Gods people to make huge mistakes, Moses, Paul, Peter, David, etc etc all did, but they saw the error and repented, so if an early WT made a mistake i hope it was rectified, but if i saw it TODAY, i would know it was not Gods word, you see we do not blindly follow like some religions, every JW stands by him/her self, so if the WTABTS were to fall into apostasy, Gods purpose would continue, by those faithful to him, he is a God of order
the humor is very good, good job
wizardsmuse 5 months ago
The reason they don't want you to read fiction with magic is probably precisely because the children might realise that magic is fiction.
moyga 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
GOD SAYS HE HAS A SON.Jesus said he's God's Son-Matthew 3:17,Mark 9:7,Psalms 2:7,Luke 9:35,Prov.8:22.DEMONS,expelled said he's Son of God-Luke 4:41.Matt.8:29, Mark3:11.Others said he's Son-John1:14,49,3:17,5:18,36,6:46,10:36,Mark15:39,Matthew 26:63,27:40. Hebrews10:29,4:14.An angel said he's Son-Luke1:35.Jehovah God is Jesus' God-John15:1,16:3,30,20:17, Matt.26:26,36-44,64,Mark15:34,Ephesians1:17.Son=Mediator-1Timothy 2:5,Heb.1:3,4,8:6,9:15,12:24, Romans1:4,8,9,Acts7:55,56.
eternityandforever 7 months ago
You have proven it once again that they have been driven to madness by there satanic governing body.!!
healthinfo1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I would love to put a miget in a Smurf Costume and have run out of the Hall
that would be hilarious
lowridingLuchador 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I would love to put a miget in aSmurf Costume and have run out of the Hall
that would be hilarious
lowridingLuchador 1 year ago
Comment removed
lowridingLuchador 1 year ago
Comment removed
lowridingLuchador 1 year ago
Did you have beeeens for breakfast. What's wrong with your jaw. It seem to go from side to side. Smart haircut!
gabbsdad 1 year ago
@gabbsdad 1/4th cup of oatmeal with 6 oz of almond milk every morning. Jaws go from side to side, if you mean they attach from ear to ear that's basic anatomy so congratulations on figuring that out. You're only a few thousand years behind on that. Second comment on the hair cut, is someone jealous? I notice you don't have pics of yourself on your channel, let me guess you look like you got hit in the face with the broad side of a 2x4.
TimKilgore 1 year ago
@TimKilgore No need to get nasty. I was only pointing out some aspects of your appearance. From my point of view you look like someone who likes beeeens for breakfast. Do you have a wife? Is she as good looking as you?
gabbsdad 1 year ago
@gabbsdad Been married 9 years, my wife's legitly a model and former beauty queen. Please put up pics of yourself so I can comment as well, I know how much you keyboard commandos can dish out but can't take pussy.
TimKilgore 1 year ago
I heard of an elder who told a Sister she'd got 'the demons' because she had fleur d elys wallpaper. What a twat!
PuNkOfNiCe 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TimKilgore well most of the magic in the bible comes from god, true some does come from wizards, and false gods, but the view on it is frowned upon, like how pharoah's magicians failed agaisnt gods magic, and demonic magic never wins. unlike the fairly odd parents show where it seems so innocent and awesome to have a demonic magic fairy. when in reality true magic should only be from god, not some magic wand.
noobs643biach 1 year ago
Easy. Magic that came from the bible was from god, magic used nowadays is from "demons and satan" two different types of magics, the satanic one like Harry potters is not one that should be allowed because of all the witchcraft. When they made the snake "idol" they did not bow down and start worshipping it, so it wasn't much of a idol was it. Unlike the golden calf and false gods.
noobs643biach 1 year ago
@noobs643biach Really? So the Pharoah's magicians duplicating the signs Moses gave and the plagues was from God?
TimKilgore 1 year ago
@TimKilgore well most of the magic in the bible comes from god, true some does come from wizards, and false gods, but the view on it is frowned upon, like how pharoah's magicians failed agaisnt gods magic, and demonic magic never wins. unlike the fairly odd parents show where it seems so innocent and awesome to have a demonic magic fairy. when in reality true magic should only be from god, not some magic wand.
noobs643biach 1 year ago
@noobs643biach So then you have come to a giant circle and never answered the question. The incident of Pharoah's magicians they were doing real magic right? You would encourage your kids to read about it right? Now Harry Potter is about magic but admittedly fake magic. So why can't they read about fake magic but are encouraged to read about real magic? Seems rather hypocritical to me.
TimKilgore 1 year ago
@TimKilgore while the real magic story is showing how bad magic is and how it WONT suceed, the fake magic by harry potter is making people say "oh look magic is so cool and amazing i want to try it!" its basically teaching us a lesson from god, wheras harry potter is more for entertainment purposes
noobs643biach 1 year ago
@noobs643biach What lesson pray-tell do the Psalms or Song of Solomon teach other than Sex is awesome?
TimKilgore 1 year ago
Comment removed
noobs643biach 1 year ago
Hahaha "why does that sound so familiar"
alt061983 1 year ago
good joke
SuperKings18 1 year ago
yes go do someething bout your nose and stop lying u ugl y man
Irishgeraldine 2 years ago
My nose has been broken four times, while I'm wrestling I'm not going to get an operation to fix it because it could all be undone by one errant punch. Please enlighten me dear, what exactly am I lying about? Please be specific. Ad hominem attacks are worthless if the ugliest person on the planet makes a point does his grotesqueness somehow invalidate his point?
TimKilgore 2 years ago
We don't tell anyone what they CAN'T do, just what the Bible and God agree with. I am a very religious Jehovah's Witness woman and I am a HUGE Tolkien fan, a Trekkie and a big time Sci-fi / FANTASY gamer. The dude who wrote this question needs to actually READ the bible. It just sounds ignorant. You/whoever REALLY needs to check your scriptures - King James Version even! Any JW could easily answer all of your questions - including ME! :) If you genuinely want JW answers you can always ask me :).
valaurwen 1 year ago
@valaurwen I'm ignorant of the scriptures eh? So the bible doesn't have sympathetic magic in it? Funny that you say any JW could easily answer my questions, yet elders, CO's and even Bethelites have yet to be able to. There were trekkie fans in my congregation too but that didn't have magic in it. Would you mind bringing some Magic cards or D&D to the congregation for me and see what happens? Then we can discuss the magic parts of the bible.
TimKilgore 1 year ago
@TimKilgore
haha YES! Actually I have. I got some of the other kids into Warhammer Fantasy tabletop and D&D. My father played as well (but he thinks it's for nerds now lol). I used to play Magic the Gathering. I never hid any fo that! When my cards fell out of my bag in field service one of the elders and other cong members just laughed and shook their heads at what a dork I am. It's personal opinion not rule. We are to avoid "magic practicing". It may bother some but I am not practicing magic.
valaurwen 1 year ago
@TimKilgore
Because it is entirely a conscience matter to play FANTASY games using magic or see FICTIONAL movies (Cinderella uses magic so does Beauty & the Beast - some witnesses believe those to be wrong and some don't) about magic no one ca say "this/that is wrong". That is THEIR conscience, not mine. Jesus said it is unlawful to press your opinion on anyone as law/rule so the cong isn't supposed to. Tht is a corrupt practice and my cong doesn't ever do that - I guess I'm in a way fortunate.
valaurwen 1 year ago
@valaurwen Setting yourself as the bar doesn't mean that's how it is for the rest of JW's. I was one when I was a kid, and I got in trouble numerous times for the Tolkien books. For some reason Trekkie stuff was always OK with all the JW's I knew even though I thought it was comparable.
Quasiprophet 1 year ago
@TimKilgore
Btw don't get me wrong. Not everyone is going to be so comfortable with my playing DnD or Warhammer Fantasy etc etc. Many MANY parents who AREN'T JWs aren't comfortable with DnD and that sort of thing because their kids get extremely lost in the game - become obsessive. It's just a matter of personal opinion and behavior. But I know witnesses who believe that eating Lucky Charms cereal is wrong -_- lol. Hey as long as they don't try to press that on me I'm good! That's THEIR opinion.
valaurwen 1 year ago
@valaurwen So the question would remain though, for those who believe it's wrong to play DnD etc, why would they view it as wrong to read/play games involving FICTIONAL magic but it would be OK to read REAL cases of magic occurring in the bible? Oh and BTW would you mind if I cited the 20 or so WT articles that point out what you're doing with DnD etc as being wrong and that a Christian shouldn't do it?
TimKilgore 1 year ago
@TimKilgore
By all means do point out in recent literature where it tells me that it's WRONG to play DnD or other such fantasy games. Additionally, if you consider biblical miracles "real magic" then that is your prerogative - we (and most Christian/Jewish/Muslim groups) consider them divine occurrences. So that you know, the case with Jacob and the spotted goats is not "magic". It's actually a scientifically proven and very ancient practice that goatherders have been using now for millenia.
valaurwen 1 year ago
@valaurwen What you're doing here is moving the goalposts, I said I would point out in WT that what you say is OK to do has been written about being wrong. Now you've added it has to be recent, if I quote something from the 80's even if it's the last time it was ever mentioned you will no doubt move the goalposts further and say that it's not recent enough. As for the "magic" I wasn't aware the magic the pharoah's magicians did was divine, that's in the bible, that's real.
TimKilgore 1 year ago
@TimKilgore
The reason that I say "recent" is because A TON of their stances and beliefs have changed since the 80s and become much more accepting and directly bible based. It was influenced by a lot of opinion back in the 80s. One thing about Jehovah's WItnesses Organization is that they have no problem admitting that they were wrong or too stringent and then changing it to be more in line with the scriptures. We strive to be as scriptural as possible and that means not enforcing opinions.
valaurwen 1 year ago
@valaurwen So there in lies the dilemma, how recent is recent? If there are no articles changing the stance "New Light" would that mean that the stance is still the same? For example the last article about men not having beards was written in 1967, yet that's still the stance in the US since nothing has been written retracting it. So how recent is recent? If I post an article will you then tell me it needs to be more recent even if there's no retraction?
TimKilgore 1 year ago
@TimKilgore
Actually the last article that I remember about men not having beards in the US was earlier this year. Anything that they have not corrected or changed their stance on still applies as guidance for us. If they have not "changed their stance" on something than it's still the same - there are no unspoken and unwritten changes in belief or practice. How recent is "recent"? Simply whatever is the latest article regarding a certain point (even if the "latest" was from 1945), that's all..
valaurwen 1 year ago
@valaurwen Bear in mind it's been about a month passed 9 years since I've set foot in a Kingdom Hall, so the most recent I might not know about. However if you're telling me you will accept the most recent mentioning of a stance on something like DnD well then I guess I can quote an article from I believe it was around 1973 where DnD is singled out as being demonistic.. Is one article sufficient when I post the year, date and page number?
TimKilgore 1 year ago
@TimKilgore
lol Yes absolutely. However, please note that there have been many articles since 1973 referring to the playing of vide games, fantasy games, and other forms of recreation (in fact as recent as this year) that specifically call such games "a conscience matter". The most recent article mentioning DnD specifically is 8/22/1999. I can inbox you exactly what it says if you like. The stance is very clear. It is simply a warning of the dangers of getting lost in such RP-games is all :).
valaurwen 1 year ago
@TimKilgore
Hey........ okay so I kind of pre-emptively sent you the article (I copied and pasted it from the Watchtower Index which you can get from the JW watchtower(dot)org website). I hope you don't mind! It's just that I may be pasisng out a bit soon as I'm getting a headache and I didn't want to leave you hanging in case you did want me to show you the article. Ciao!
valaurwen 1 year ago
@valaurwen:your statement is unadulterated bullshit, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society strongly condemns anything not approved of in its doctrine, i don't know what congregation you belong to but it certainly isn't even close to the one i attended (if you're being honest) where every thing a member of the congregation did was scrutinized and judged, even to the point of some members being spied on by other members, the WBTS is a harmful and dangerous cult.
wizardsmuse 5 months ago
@TimKilgore
Don't bother to respond to such retardation pls. The internet always has it's abundance of bridge trolls. Your nose looks fine! Wth? I honestly appreciate your openness to discussing things instead of flatly sticking with an idea. I always strive to do the same thing. Ppl like Geraldine are despicably un-Christian. We are to love and care for even our enemies. Not that you're an "enemy" but you get what I mean lol. So just saw the comment. I'm truly sorry that you experienced that.
valaurwen 1 year ago
thats not very christian now is it geraldine????
coylo50 2 years ago
Ad Hominem attack, go look it up.
tubian323 2 years ago
@Irishgeraldine
Please read Matthew 5:43-48 and Romans 12:17-21. Learn what it means to be a Christian please before you go around soiling the name of Jehovah. Hateful words and behavior like this is what makes it so hard for honest and genuine Jehovah's Witnesses. Such hate and oppression from congregations of ppl like you is what often creates an apostate. Please think next time before you speak/respond. "Be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, and slow about WRATH." -James 1:19. Thanks.
valaurwen 1 year ago
No Magic? What do you call parting an ocean or raising the dead?
tubian323 2 years ago
I once heard that a bunch of Jehovahs Witnesses went to a heavy metal concert (that alone is a bit questionable in the eyes of JWs) and the lead singer said that the devil was going to play the guitar.
When the Guitar didn't start playing he asked if any JWs were in the building and could they please leave.
MentallyDeadKev 2 years ago
I heard it was Sly and the Family Stone.
TimKilgore 2 years ago
your face remind me of a tortilla
martasashimi 2 years ago
i feel so sorry for you , i have a question for you when are you going to do the surgery in your nose is so uuuuuuuuuuuuugly
martasashimi 2 years ago
When would you actually address the question in the video instead of engaging in an ad hominem attack like I asked in my first video in the series? You don't have a picture up on your youtube or any videos of yourself, have you heard the phrase "those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"?
TimKilgore 2 years ago
Hrmmm what would JESUS do! Would JESUS read lil fucking fantasy books who's main character happens to be a sorcerer...NO! So there's your fucking answer you fucking idiot! LOL hey I had to put it as simplified as I can!
BiTChSl4pPiNyOwiF3y 2 years ago
Do the scriptures go into what Jesus read outside of his ministry? I got a great question for you, what would Jesus do if someone disagreed with him? You give me your answer and I'll show you it's wrong from the scriptures and you can see Jesus didn't do alot of the things you would attribute him with when you say WWJD.
TimKilgore 2 years ago
Damn how many damn questions are you going to ask....shit lol what a loser! If you don't like Jehovah's witness' then stay the fuck away from them....shit....it's just that simple you moron! Lol Ok now I see you are started to question your right to practice witchcraft or voodoo! Your attack is not against Jehovah's Witness,' but it's against GOD's word as well! Fucking moron!
BiTChSl4pPiNyOwiF3y 2 years ago
I do mention in my first video to avoid ad hominem attacks I won't warn you again. I do stay away from JWs, did you watch my first video or if I can turn a phrase you use, or are you that much of a fucking moron that you can't be bothered to watch the first video of a series before commenting on the series?
TimKilgore 2 years ago
as far as sacraficing... it states in Psalms 40:6 Sacrafice and offering you did not delight in . jehovah did not approve these kinds of sacrafices. the book of leviticus clearly talks about all the laws jehovah gave the isrealites. and the types of SPECIFIC sacrafices that were pleasing in jehovahs eyes. of course they had to make these sacrafices as noted in leviticus because jesus hadnt been sent down to give himself as the ransom sacrafice which is the ultimate, to buy back what adam lost.
LaChicanita30 2 years ago
as far as casting spells and practicing such things is not acceptable in Gods eyes. He shuns out those who practice it and warns us to sustain from being involved wether acting it out or indulging in it for entertainment purposes. I respect your beliefs in this subject but I disagree as well. we as jehovahs witnesses warn all who have any such involvement with anything magical to sustain from it.. for it does not originate with god.
LaChicanita30 2 years ago
all originates from god
kaileab 2 years ago
in the case with harry potter, you may think that it`s no harm...becaue people say. : it`s just a movie:. But where does this reallyoriginate from? Satan uses anything he can to make people think something as harmless as a harry potter movie could never do us harm. But as imperfect humans we sometimes wish we can do things magical like portrayed in our harmless harry potter books and movies. The ultimate goal all in all is.. We must focus on our grand creator Jehovah god and his promises!!!
LaChicanita30 2 years ago 2
Out of your comments here this is the one that actually deals with the stuff in the video. What's the difference now in reading about magic in the bible and reading about magic in a story. Other than the fact one is admittedly fake and the other actually happened. How do you know as imperfect humans we won't try some of the magic mentioned in the bible?
TimKilgore 2 years ago
because as imperfect humans beings we sometimes want to dabble into the other side satan wants us to dabble into those things because he knows that it is against gods laws. that why is it in your best intrest to really seek why JW`s abstain from such practices because they all originate with the god of this world which is satsn. and the bible also tell you who the ruler of this world is!!! hope you respond back. I would love to help you understand. but at no means am i forcing you to!
LaChicanita30 2 years ago
I understand what you're saying, you're kind of reitterating what you've said previously. Are you saying that reading a book of admittedly pretend magic will get someone to try real magic, but reading accounts of real magic won't? Dear, I will always respond to you as long as you refrain from ad hominem attacks.
TimKilgore 2 years ago
light. he blinds the minds of the unbelievers. which is brought out in 2Corithians 4:4. and in 1 timothy 4:1speaks of the god of this system of things which is satan will cause some to fall away from the truth by using his demons as the teachers. any and all spiritistic movies and games gives way for entrance of satan and his demons into our homes. We must sustain from these fantacy magical things that to you and many other may seem frivilous but in our eyes they only spawn from one diety.SATAN
LaChicanita30 2 years ago
well the bible talks about magic practicing priests in numerous scriptures. Ge. 41:8 Ex. 7:11 ; 9:11 Da 1:20, 2:2, and 4:7 but Jehovah never approved of their practices. Read what it says in Galations 5 19-21. it specificaly talks about acts of spiritism. What people believe to be magical is not with god. they will not inherit gods kingdom. the kind of magic people see on t.v nowadays is nothing compared to what happened in biblical days. satan is the ruler of the world and poses as a devine..
LaChicanita30 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Bible does contain magic along with fornication, adultery, lies, ect. But this doesn't mean it encourages it. A person can read/study an event but it is far from the same as engaging in the act. I can spend years studying the assassination of JFK and the lessons to learn from it, but no matter how much I study it, I'll never b the one who pulled or helped to pull the trigger(s).
gracesavedthissinner 2 years ago
I'm not saying the bible encourages it, this is aimed at the parents out there who won't let their kids read Harry Potter because of magic being in the book then hands them an illustrated book of Exodus. It seems rather hypocritical, one is an admittedly fake book containing fake magic, the other is a real book with real acts of magic in it. Why is one OK and the other isn't?
TimKilgore 2 years ago
Comment removed
gracesavedthissinner 2 years ago
Oh sorry another one. I was playing street fighter the video game. My grandmother bursts in the room and in her italian voice goes "whats this? your playing satana (devil), why...why you fight satana?" I couldent help but laugh my head off
escapethetower75 2 years ago
OK check this one. This kid i knew had a bad dream about pokemon. Then his mum decided that Pokemon men demon. Serious. Next thing you kno all the children had to throw away all there pokemon toys. Infact my brother had a post, so my grandmother paid him 10 pounds to take it down, as it was demonic. LOL.
escapethetower75 2 years ago
It also ruins so many lives, and all for the sake of making a few rich men, who see it as nothing more than a pyramid scheme, richer. At least benny hinn puts on a show.
davealexanian 2 years ago
Its so hard to believe that people just close their eyes to every bit of logic and evidence in order to hold onto this stuff. I cant believe I was suckered in, though I was 5 when they scrubbed my mind
davealexanian 2 years ago
Belief is a strange thing, it can make a completely rational person into an irrational one and a peaceful person into a violent one.
TimKilgore 2 years ago
I had a door visit 2 weekends ago and I brought up these points. They promised to come back next week after they looked into it, I was actually disappointed when they were a no show.
davealexanian 2 years ago
Actually Tim, I was reponding to that yo yo and this is the page the link brought me to, as I was unable to post directly to him. Sorry for muddling your page, feel free to erase them
davealexanian 2 years ago
It's OK man, I only delete comments that threaten violence (and even them I barely do). I think you hit too many points for them to go into. Not that they will :)
TimKilgore 2 years ago
This rebuttle was for rtrnoa... Tim, I like what youre doing here... I dont know why we waste our time on people like rtrnoa who rebut with such shallow and poorly researched stuff, but I guess we must
davealexanian 2 years ago
I submit to you that JW and the WTS are man made entities and are corrupt, therefore any truth you try to preach under their banner is also corrupt. You cannot serve clean water in a dirty glass. If you feel the need to rebut this message, please at lease take the time to reseach and verify what I have told you, as I would gladly offer you the same courtesy whether I agree with you or not
davealexanian 2 years ago
You can check and see that the wts claim 1.8 billon dollars annually. That the cross and crown were the original symbols... so many changes in doctrine, predictions etc... countless allegations proven and not of child sexual abuse by elders.
davealexanian 2 years ago
Hey there Dave, are all these comments to this video or to a comment on here? It's kind of hard to string through them all. There are several videos with specific subjects, you might want to comment specifically to those so each one of your points are addressed individually instead of lumped together at once. When that is done usually stuff is missed entirely.
TimKilgore 2 years ago
This is absolutely verifyable. You will see that judge Joe ( who wasnt even a judge) was an alcoholic who used the money from the WTS to fund his lavish existance, with two cadilacs, fine brandy and cigars and two lavish fully fortified homes, all during the depression and all under the pretence that the patriarchs were going to come back and live there. Also verifiable.
davealexanian 2 years ago
Finally, if you are a seeker of truth, you will look into the founders and governers of the organization you follow. You will find from russels own writtings that most of his dates and numbers come from the pyramids of giza, and not the bible.
davealexanian 2 years ago
You would also look into the making of the NWT and find out which version they based it on, and the changes ( some more subtle than others) they made and how it works for them.
davealexanian 2 years ago
And if it is, Which version of the Bible? the NWT? I am pretty sure no matter what I present to you, you have your mind made up but if you are truly a student of the bible, you would delve into all the facts... ie the councels of hippo and nicea, constantines roll in the making of the bible... why certain scrtiptures were deemed apocryphal and others cannon.
davealexanian 2 years ago
. If you have any knowlege of the history of the making of the new testament cannon as we know it today, with all its cut and paste and political and religious intrigues, how can you believe that it is the word of god?
davealexanian 2 years ago
You say that the bible says that the bible is the word of god. Thats like saying the book of mormon says its the word of god. You cant use the same book to prove itself.
davealexanian 2 years ago
when youve been brainwashed for beetnhs, you feel the need to ask the questions that he's asking. Questions you were taught were wrong to ask, like, why is it so bad to use something that has a pagan origin like birthdays? things in our daily live we come across have many roots in Pagan beliefs. Whats next? are the JWs gonna change the names of the days of the week, or the calander alltogether? if you look, you will find the lies behind the "truth"
davealexanian 3 years ago
lots questions..Diference between bible's teachings and other literature in regards to idols..magic etc is:Bible says that "whole scripture is inspired from God " and given us humans to learn from it.
Lots of exampels like u mentioned happened and they were brought up in Bible to show us they exsist.
rtrnoa 2 years ago
When you ask urself such questions u have to follow up to see what did Jehova alone said obut em..did he aprove em or no..so keep up reading u find His disaproval. Miracles ..wonders question..
We humans don't have power alone to manifest any kind of miracles.
rtrnoa 2 years ago
They are either from Real God made at apropriate time and in times where that was neccesary. Bible says and show examples where god Explained how he feels about them..
rtrnoa 2 years ago
Literature beside bible make kids/readers think in back of mind that there is magic..kids make illusions which can lead to lots of problems but that literature never say in it both sides..is that correct or wrong..it is just represented as it is and that is dangerous cuse that literature in numb words saying to reader eveerything is posible it doesnot have to be God.. that is dangerous..and that is one of differences i could find many more but no time..
rtrnoa 2 years ago
Literature makes kids think in the back of their mind that there is magic, but the bible teaches them outright that it exists. Literature is not presented as being absolute truth, in fact it's known as being fake, the bible on the other hand...
TimKilgore 2 years ago
I happen to know first hand about the smurf scare and the Dand D scare> JWs lie, its pure and simpe. they Dont tell you the history of thier organization, the house that Joe built or Russels 1914 prediction based on pyramid dimensions. In fact most people in the "truth" wouldnt even know about those things because they blindly follow the man made doctrines of those men in the WS. "brother" Fanz own brother disowned him. your attackers just havent bothered to do the research & are just insulting
davealexanian 3 years ago
(i'm honestly not trying to prove you wrong or whatever, i sincerely want to know why you feel it is so neccessary to prove jw's teachings wrong..)
beetnhs 3 years ago
Please watch my first video which explains in detail why I'm doing this and that I have indeed asked JWs these questions and the results I have. These are questions, they are open ended, I don't see how asking a question about a teaching proves it wrong.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
if you HONESTLY want to know the answers to these questions then ask a witness you know. it hard to believe that be making these videos you sincerely want to know the answers. it seems like your just trying to prove the religion to be false. if thats the case then i just want to know why? why is it so important to you to prove witnesses wrong? if you dont believe it then thats your choice, why not just leave it at that?
beetnhs 3 years ago
beetnhs
Could you tell me why the JW'S are so sure that they and not Israel are the 144.000 talked abt in Revelation and also why can't you have communion unless your 1 of the 144.000, how would you know if your 1 of the 144.000? What are the criteria for being 1 of the 144.000?
hannahr77 3 years ago
you were dropped on your head as a child mulitple times werent you?
queenbella2738 3 years ago
You can't come up with an actual comment so all you have left is an ad hominem attack, am I right?
TimKilgore 3 years ago
Ad hominem hmmm....if that applied to me which it doesnt because I can go all day arguing with you because I would be really surprised darlin if you read the bible all the way thru or if you are just going alon with the crowd on this one, No I just just am not gonna argue with someone that is hanging on the coat tails of someone else and trying to act like he knows what he is talking about. Just look at your videos each video there is no love or consideration anywhere it is hello here is a
queenbella2738 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
que
beetnhs
Could you tell me why the JW'S are so sure that they and not Israel are the 144.000 talked abt in Revelation and also why can't you have communion unless your 1 of the 144.000, how would you know if your 1 of the 144.000? What are the criteria for being 1 of the 144.000?
hannahr77 3 years ago
question and I am going to ask it with a pompous attitude cause I think I am so smart and I am so much better then you. I dont know what your problem is but I am pretty sure that the jehovah's witnesses didnt have anything to do with it.
queenbella2738 3 years ago
So really do you have any actual answers to the question or are you just trying to throw insults because attacking the questioner so as to discredit the question without ever addressing it? Saying weekly bible study is required and I was a JW for 20 years I've actually read through the whole bible about 7 times. I don't call what you do arguing, you just insult, arguing means you have a point which you don't, your point is to insult.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
all I am saying is that you are not saying anything positive it is all negative and a little bit twisted because you know that when you were a witness it wasnt at all as bad as what you are saying. And I am not insulting you as you claim I just all of a sudden stick up for a religion and you accuse me of things.
queenbella2738 3 years ago
I never did say it was all bad did I? I said that when I had questions I never got answers. Saying I have a pompous attitude and asking if I was dropped on my head are insults dear, which in a debate is an ad hominem attack. They don't have anything to do with the question and are basically used to discredit the questioner without addressing their statements. Now you're using a red herring about all bad to go on a different subject when you still haven't addressed this video.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
I am not sure whether you should be listening to people if you think that stories like these are true.
queenbella2738 3 years ago
The main thing to remember here though is that Jehovah is not performing miracles [magic] for us in this day. And you certainly wouldn't need to go through rituals or put up signs and idols to access his power. ALL worship to other gods would be very harmful to you and make you a part of the world. Those who are true christians should really be being shunned from the world and have real magicians against them. God's magic lies in throwing off the material and waiting for him to repay in secret.
v1s10naryman 3 years ago
I should've specified in this video more, we're talking the difference between reading about real magic in the bible and acts of fake magic. Everyone is discussing real magic vs Jehovah's Miracles. That's not what I'm talking about, it's not even comparing apples to oranges, it's comparing apples to fake oranges.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
hmm... well fake magic is just kinda fancy illusions and slight of hand with some psychology thrown in. It's entertainment which was it's roots in imitating the skills of the old real magicians. Personaly I dont see any problem with the entertainment type... but I think you'll find the advanced stuff gets into real magic anyway.
v1s10naryman 3 years ago
The issue here though is where the magic comes from. Demonic magic carries their symbols signs down through the ages and has an agenda to lead you to sin. MOST modern media has the signs, symbols, philosophies and subliminal suggestions to try to driect you away from Jehovah and his principles. Obviously things dealing with magic tend to actually be quite overt... and probably LESS dangerous in reality. Do research on NLP and hypnotic suggestion to see why most media is dangerous.
v1s10naryman 3 years ago
The issue here is who you turn to for the magical power. It would appear that Solomon was a magician... and Daniel would have been familiar with all the practises of babylon too. Ultimately real magic is looking to the spirits to make things happen for you. I am pretty sure that Jehovah performing miracles and demons performing them are similar. However Jehovah's motivation is love and harmony, the demons is stimulating ego. And obviously Jehovah is more powerful.
v1s10naryman 3 years ago
Look up the word's occult,supernatural,witch, warlock. Dungeons and dragons dealt with demons, whats missing in all these examples? God! the miracles in the bible 100% of the time are attributed to God, even Jesus gave credit to God, Harry Poter does not! Didnt "Mr K" say he reads the bible? even the King James version denounces anyone binding someone with a spell, so again, where are the hard questions, these should be easy for a person raised in this religion, who listened to so many talks =)
nekdawgg 3 years ago
Isn't it wierd that God and Satan are doing the same things? One would think that if the chief of good and the chief of evil are resorting to the same tactics you might want to re-examine things. The question is about real vs. fake, I'd like to congratulate you for finally using your third logical fallacy here, that of the straw man.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
Maybe if you have not been chosen and asked to have Gods magic preformed through you by God himself then the magic is not to be done?
Unapproved magic could cause destruction?
lovemybeau 3 years ago
Hey wow, that's the first logical answer I've gotten. Thank you so much for the comment. I would understand that in cases of real magic from evil, however not allowing pretend stories seems a little overboard still.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
lol! did you do that on purpose?! the snake...to prevent further deaths...to attone for sin... So genius! Glory Be to God! Go Jesus! Go Jesus!
sldeyo 3 years ago
Allot of JW kids tend to be sci fi fans "trekies" since all the fantasy stuff was banned by their parents, Some JW parents are more permissible then others.
Gringoman911 3 years ago
The Smurfs doll tale is a old one, I heard it when I was a kid,There is also variations of the same story were its one of those old "troll" dolls instead of a Smurf.
Gringoman911 3 years ago
yes i heard that all the way in new jersey. obviously these stories were created by the organization.
opn23again 3 years ago
For the death to prevent further Sin, that's the death of Jesus
JesusFollower38 3 years ago
because God allows power from his holy spirit to act in some situations, call it miracles etc, or whatever you want, but the opposite also has power ie satan, and he has a huge influence (1john 5:19) so be carefull which one you meddle with Gods power or satans, satan wants you to believe some lies and harry potter books etc, are based on that lie, the undead, magic powers etc. the bible which is far more interesting unravels which is the lie and which is the truth Gods or satans, simple really
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
Real magic by God is OK to read about, pretend stories about magic occuring like Dungeons and Dragons or Harry Potter is not OK to read about. One really happened, one is completely make believe. Am I getting you right?
TimKilgore 3 years ago
no
take the case of moses and the pharaoh, he used magic to produce a snake and moses did the same but that snake ate pharaohs so the point is, God has power, and wherever pharaoh got power from it was useless.
The word "magic" is derived from the name "magi," an ancient Persian priestly caste that specialized in cultic activities
magic comes under 3 categories, mystical, exploitative, and entertainment,
see leviticus 19:11, that is why christians should not read HP.
also DEUT 18:10-14
rufusredcoat 3 years ago
I thought the point of Moses snake eating the Pharoh's was basically "My God's stronger than your God". Which all of the 10 plagues dealt with a power of one of their Gods. The whole situation reeks of "My God's Magic is better". Lev 19:11 doesn't mention magic in it at all. Either way, isn't all the talk against magic part of the Mosaic Law, which Jesus then got rid of?
TimKilgore 3 years ago
leviticus 19:11, speaks about not dealing falsely with people which is what most magicians do, any way you are skirting around the point, God does not do magic, as i pointed out the 3 types as above, but satan and his demons do, and we should avoid it. now you want to discuss mosaic law and Jesus new commandment?, well read matth 5:17-20, we are today looking at 'spiritual israel', Gods laws were never wrong or time related, they exist right to the end, but his chosen people changed.
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
Let's take a look at the action itself, God turns a rod into a snake, Satan turned a rod into a snake. In both cases a rod turns into a snake, why should one be called a miracle and one be called magic, the exact same thing happened. Angels perform miracals, was Satan not an Angel? As for Matt 5:17-20, that's good that proves that Jesus said opposite things in opposite books, we can play bible ping pong on things he said all day.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
as i explained God does not do magic because it implies he is deceptive no that tag lays squarely with satan yes he may have been an angel but not anymore 2 corin 4:4 anyway what portion does darkness have with light? even if you were an atheist you would know that there is Gods way and the opposite is satans way, why is this complicated? God performs miracles, satan cannot so he decieves with spiritism black arts, magic etc etc. i dont think this is a 'tough question' at all
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
All you're doing is saying when God does something it's called a miracle, when Satan does the SAME EXACT THING it's called magic. Genesis doesn't say Pharoh's magicians through trickery did the same thing as Moses, they did the same thing as Moses. They did the same exact thing. So if you're calling Moses' rod turning into a snake a miracle then the Pharoh's magicians performed that same miracle. You can't change the definition of an act just because it suits what you want to believe.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
ok
i DO get your point, it is completely different when God does something to when satan does it ie, matthew 12:22-26, what do you make of this?, why did not jesus say, 'what difference does it make,i cured him didnt i'? and in 12:27, he reasons with them about THEIR powers, what is the point of this portion of scripture?" What could the Pharisees say? They would never acknowledge that their disciples acted under Satan's power!! ok we have established TWO powers, one is GOD one is satan
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
does it not make sense to you that God is greater than satan?will not God destroy him in the end? you have touched on something quite fundemental here about JW teaching satan accused God of being a liar Gen 3:4 and God states in Gen 3:15 he is condemned. in luke 4 we see satan and jesus discuss power etc satans whole purpose is to blind people he is a master of disguise Gen 3:1,Gods purpose is to save, matth 24:14 2peter 3:9, so when the final battle comes. decide whos power you will depend on..
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
also what is the point of 2corin 11:14? why cant satan just be himself?, why does he have to fool people into thinking he is an angel of light?, it is because he would not get away with his type of magic, people would be wary of it, so he makes on he is Godlike, and then people accept it as it is now from a GOOD source, is the point really clear now, or maybe you dont want these'tough' questions to be answered, what would you do if someone actually did logically answer it?
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
Too. Many. Scriptures... LOL. I would love the questions to be answered, Fedetor has come the closest to answering one logically. His answer still brings up some questions but I can totally see his point of view. I understand about Satan's power vs. God's power, but the definition of the same thing two different ways I feel is rather hypocritical. I could see a christian keeping children away from something specifically referencing how to do dark arts by Satan or demons...
TimKilgore 3 years ago
The thing is you will encourage them to read about rods being turned into snakes, people being turned into wild beasts, and even divination in the bible which is told as being 100% real. But something that references these same things AND in a totally 100% pretend way is viewed as dangerous. Even if it doesn't reference anything Satanic at all, what if Harry Potter went to a far off Monistary to become a prophet and learned Miracles would that be OK to read?
TimKilgore 3 years ago
well at least you sound reasonable.
when we study the bible, all the pieces fall into place,and the little questions start to be answered, if a scientist said to einstien,E=M........it would not make sense. so your question is 'what is the difference?,it all sounds the same, magic miracles, God ,satan, and to a child whats the point?, well its about taking sides, God wants us to be happy so he says avoid this or that, like a dad to a son, we trust him because no dad (normally) would decieve a..
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
....his son,we protect our children from what we as adults know is dangerous. it may look harmless to a young mind, like ouija boards etc, but people have invoked terrible things and been frightened, God says stay away as a protection, so what may seem confusing, divination etc can be explained, but deep things are not available to ones with the wrong heart condition God draws us and opens hearts and minds but humility is needed.athiests will never understand the bible only God reveals the truth
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
This doesn't really have to do with taking sides, heart conditions or anything. That argument about for protection and so forth, as a JW I was told stories of crosses causing demonic expiriences. Obviously christians feel protected by crosses. To me it seems that crosses are the victim of someone's overactive imagination. I don't see how it's about taking sides, it's saying an action is good for one person to do and evil if another does it.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
A good example would be faith healing, if someone heals in God's name that is good. If someone heals in Ra's name that would be bad? The person is still healed right? More apprapo to this situation would be forcing your child to read about a guy named Bob healing the sick, then forbidding them from reading about a fictional account of Jim doing the same exact thing.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
well, you asked the question, what is the difference between 'GOD doing something and satan doing the same. so it IS about taking sides, i have proved that satan is a deciever, and no one likes being decieved, so if something appears to be good, people think its ok, but the scriptures in exodus show the Egyptians gods were no match for Jehovah, there magic was a charade, a gimmick, Gods power swept it aside, so that is why i serve him and not satan. re; the cross, people turn them upside down ..
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
All you've said is that God does something it's good and Satan does the same thing it's bad. The only reason you've given is effectively because. My God is better than your God is effectively the story of every holy book. It still doesn't answer why is reading about real magic OK and pretend stories not ok. Because one is evil based on effectively "cause I said so" is not an answer.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
as i was saying, people turn crosses upside down to invoke satan they are used in black arts, and yes ojects can be possesed, we are not dealing in recreation here tim, this is serious, so if you think it is ok to teach children that it is harmless to dabble in satans form of magic, and it is the same as Gods, well its up to you, but people have been damaged by fooling with spiritism even possesed, and i trully think it is irresponsible of you to condone it and if you ask any JW a bible question
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
....they will not shy away from answering it, even if is 'tough', have you tried your local church with the same challenge?, every JW will give the same answer about your questions, perhaps their personalities are different or their illustrations, but it will be consistant, as we all rely on the bible and not human philosophy, so why do this?, why not have a bible study the 'live' discussion is better as this does not really work. i really hope you find what you seek
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
I mentioned in my introduction video why I'm doing the series and I have asked the questions while I was a witness. I think we're talking about two different things, if my child was practicing REAL magic then I might object. I feel that is QUITE different than reading an obviously pretend story of magic, it's hypocritical to say "You must read this story of REAL magic in the Bible" but this fake story "You can't read". Demon possession is in the bible, wouldn't reading that be dangerous?
TimKilgore 3 years ago
to keep our thinking in harmony with that of Jehovah duty is placed on the individual Christian. when some of the Ephesians publicly renounced their practice of spiritism and became Christians Paul did not take it upon himself to burn their books, but "a number of them who had practised magic collected their books and made a bonfire of them in public (Acts 19:19) Why did these Christians feel it necessary to burn their own books?
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
So they practiced magic based on these books. Once again you're confusing books of REAL magic like the one mentioned in the Bible AND the bible itself. This is about reading FICTIONAL works of PRETEND magic vs. reading acts of real magic. You're comparing watching a UFC fight to the Three Stooges.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
Tim, there is no REAL magic, there is Gods power, and there is satans efforts to copy it, and those efforts are fictional or deception etc, so by reading this fictional stuff you are making kids think it is ok to escape into this fantasy world of deception, it wont harm me, but it does, it blurs the lines between good and evil, satan uses comedy, and so called 'harmless' entertainment to work his way in, he doesnt care how, so as JW's we avoid ALL types of fiction involving spiritism & magic
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
Ah, NJGoldsmith I want to thank you for commenting on this and not getting too steamed from my follow up. I believe if I start on your comments about Satan using various things (comedy, entertainment and blurring the lines between good and evil) I may never stop. And I will be guilty of moving to another subject.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
the bible covers all subjects, if not by law then by principle, if we live by it then we will please God and become better people. there is little point in watering it down to please all, it will just turn into a harry potter novel. the bible is Gods word and should not be compared to mans writings. as a JW i cannot let it be slandered even though my comments may be weak, i fear no man nor his philosophy, because the bible always proves true while man always proves to be a liar
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
I understand the dedication to the bible, it has to be right lest your whole way of life be shattered. Well keep doing your research maybe in time your arguments will be stronger than they were here.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
Jesus himself could have explained it much better, but i doubt if it would have made a diference. it was the same with the pharisees, he never got through to them either, as i said it has to do with the heart condition. our strength that we gain from Gods word leaves us less likely to be 'shattered' than those who trust in man.I did not give you 'my' opinion but that of the scriptures, so it is God himself talking to you, through the bible, it is to him that we all answer.
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
see his vid response no 3 and you will have your answer.
ChipZilla69 3 years ago
i am too busy studying Gods word to go off into tangents with every disgruntled witness ie, if you wanted to be an expert on counterfiet money you would not travel the world looking at every fake note! no you would examine a REAL note untill it became so familiar that if someone passed a fake you would know straight away, so it is with the TRUTH and Gods word the bible, i can spot a fake philosophy or an attack on the bible dressed up as 'debate' a mile away. i look to the bible for my 'answer'
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
Well I'm glad you're not too busy to find time to comment on my videos. For your example, you're telling me a counterfeiter wouldn't tell you his is the genuine article. If you're simply taking a man's word for it, you could be studying a counterfeited bill all the while thinking it's the real bill, then when the actual real bill is presented you will reject it because it did not meet the qualifications of the counterfeit you thought was true.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
well put
only one thing, where DO you go for the real note?, if like you i was in the 'world' ie, satans world, everyone would be passing the false note, so i would not go there, i bank with God, he helps to identify the true note by the 'holy spirit fake note detector',so i dont need to guess 'is this real'? like you do. the bible says the world is 'veiled' or blindfolded, how on earth is it possible to tell a counterfeit note when you cant see?
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
You're stating exactly what I stated. My question is on the "holy spirit fake note detector" are you saying that God is specifically telling you which is the true "note" or religion? Because unless God is actually telling you, you're still relying on man to tell you which is the right note. And hence a counterfeiter could be telling you he's right when actually he's wrong.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
yes im saying God is actually telling me which is false and which is true. prior to him telling me i asked all the other religions i asked the philosophers i asked the top scientists, politicians and such, how did i do this? well i had a question for them and their books proposed the answer,but not satisfied i asked God through prayer and he responded by sending a JW and revealing the truth through Gods word the bible, the JW only showed me where to look and i myself found the answer to life
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
You're assuming here that a person in a highly emotional state cannot be duped. There are thousands of people who all say they prayed for God to reveal himself and that he responded by sending a representative. Cat Stevens said that's the exact reason he converted to Islam. Why would God answer your prayer correctly and all those other people's falsely?
TimKilgore 3 years ago
first of all, not everyone saying 'lord lord will enter the kingdom of heaven' every person on earth has a spiritual need, but one thing seperates false religion from true. murder/killing. how many religions do you know that do not kill? so not only does one pray one has to bring his life in to line with Gods will, and THEN God will answer, but untill then it is MEN that people follow, no matter how zealous or sincere they may be. if they kill or agree with it (war etc)it is false religion.
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
Ah exactly, these people are sincere and sincerely believe that what they are following is truth. They all think God pointed them to that religion, and you think God pointed you to JWs. Who's right and who's misled, only God knows for sure. So if I found a quote that agreed with killing from the Watchtower you would say they were a false religion? Bear in mind Buddhists are strict pacifists, so are Quakers, and Amish...I'm sure there are more.
TimKilgore 3 years ago
you are correct and getting closer to the truth than you realise, it is a process of elimination, so we are left with JWs Quakers Amish Buddhists and you struggled to find more, well discount the Buddhists as japan has an army now with the other two we have to go the the bible are you prepared to do that? you see we are not brainwashed and going on zeal alone, we find Gods purpose, the same way we find the real note close examination, and no-one can do that for you, yes i am sure God pointed me
njgoldsmith 3 years ago
You're sure that God pointed you, but other people are sure God pointed them too. I do ask again though, if I found a WT article or book that encouraged violence against other humans would you say they were a false religion?
TimKilgore 3 years ago
well you make it sound as if you want me to fit into your box, without digging any deeper, you are easily satisfied by simple explanations. God wants people to get to know him, but he sets standards for worship as he is a God of order, i see little order in the religions around me, i see them kill each other, and neglect bible teachings, THIS leads me to believe they are false and so i am left with the religion that is closest to Gods word, not by man or watchtower or anything, just Gods word
rufusredcoat 3 years ago
i sense a trap here so i will say this, it is possible for Gods people to make huge mistakes, Moses, Paul, Peter, David, etc etc all did, but they saw the error and repented, so if an early WT made a mistake i hope it was rectified, but if i saw it TODAY, i would know it was not Gods word, you see we do not blindly follow like some religions, every JW stands by him/her self, so if the WTABTS were to fall into apostasy, Gods purpose would continue, by those faithful to him, he is a God of order
rufusredcoat 3 years ago
So the WT I have to quote would be from TODAY, they don't have editions that come out on August 12th