Guthrie being a communist tool again. Charles Lindbergh had no choice but to accept the German Eagle cross since, if he had offended Goering and the Germans in 1938, he would not have been able to continue entering German aeronautics factories and working as a spy for the U.S. Air Corp. Because Lindbergh was able to get loads of information on German warplanes, Hap Arnold and Truman Smith were able to forge an air force which could match the power of the German Luftwaffe. Not comic book history.
@HerbertHoover Sure, but you'll have to rmember that such knowledge, meaning the role Lindbergh had in the pre-war years, was no where near the public domain in the time. Furthermore, Woody Guthrie was as much a public figure by then and was neither a communist tool nor allied with the communist party. The fact that he adressed the workers plight makes him a man who actually gave a damn. Being a decent fellow has no political flavor, in the same way Lindbergh wasn't a bloody nazi.
@HardRockPolak2 Well, not according to the courts at the time, the fact that Hauptmann (the German you refer to) had a rather large portion of the ransom money in his home and an even larger amount in his garage. I'm not in any way an expert in American legal matters but I'm quite certain Hauptmann would have been found as guilty now as he was then. Too, I'm well aware of the debate regarding this matter and I fail to find the revisionist point of view valid in any way whatsoever.
@MrMostevilgenius The incedent might not have had relvence to your comment,but it was durring the war and people didnt like germans at the time so that has to be a factor and the money was elegily found on property could have been planted and the ladder that was in Hauptmann's posetion didnt match the ladder prints found on the crime scein. also Lindbergh had climed through his childs windo and took the child out of the house before just to freak out his wife ,
@HardRockPolak2 I'm quite sorry, but you are wrong in more ways than I care to count. The abduction of the Lindbergh child took place in 1932 and Hauptmann was executed in April 1936, meaning the war nor feelings against Germany or Germans had nothing, whatsoever, to do with it. Furthermore, Lindbergh's travels to Germany took place between 1936 and 1938, so again, there is no relation to the abduction and death of his son.
Believe what you will, but at least get your dates right.
What no one seems to mention here is that unknown to the world at large is that Lindbergh was in fact a spy for the United States and his pro Nazi stance was just a front.
That fact was not brought out until after his death
The primary duty of the members of the US Senate is to protect the lives and the liberty of the Citizens of the United States of America, not to act as agents of foreign powers intent on committing mass murder against the Citizens of the United of America and waging War against the United States of America. One of the express purposes of COICA is to shut down criticism of Islamism in the United States of America. I believe the position of US Senator John Cornyn is now untenable.
@TheKinchdedalus Before taking this song's word for it I would advise you to read "Lindbergh vs. Roosevelt: The Rivalry That Divided America" by James Duffy. I think that it does a good job showing Lindbergh as a misunderstood figure in the 1940s and not a fascist sympathizer. It is a very quick read and shows you some unknown history.
Both Guthrie and Lindbergh opposed US entry into the war at first. Guthrie changed his mind when Hitler invaded the USSR. Guthrie thought that the US should help defend Soviet Russia.
Lindbergh joined the USAF after Pearl Harbor, and flew several dozen combat missions. Guthrie also volunteered, but never saw active service.
Both Lindbergh and Guthrie were too stupid to grasp what Hitler was about. But Guthrie cared more about namecalling than fighting fascism.
@thallassocracy Lindbergh was intelligent enough to understand exactly what Adolf Hitler was about. My view is that he was a racist and he was happy to see the Nazis murdering Jews in Germany and would have been happy to see a Nazi dictatorship in America and America's Jews stripped of their civil rights and murdered.
@thallassocracy Woodie Guthrie was by profession a singer / songwriter / musician. The question is whether in his association with Communism in the US, he understood the nature of the Stalinist regime in the USSR, there were people in the US who were both decent and intelligent who were tricked by Soviet propaganda.
As a "Brit" you should get a better grasp of history. The ONLY reason Lindbergh gave any credit to Nazi Germany is because he feared Stalin's Russia more ! The hope was to let Germany and Russia battle it out and then let the democracies of the world come in to pick up the pieces. Truth is, if your nation's leaders wouldn't have bungled the end of WWI,there would have been no Hitler and your mighty empire might still be in existence today.
@dakopis Lindebergh was a racist. Your use of the word, " democracies ", would be misleading to many people, in that Lindbergh was not concerned with liberal democracy he was concerned with race. Russia in the 1930s/40s lacked an ability to threaten the United States on its home territory, A Nazi Germany which was victorious over the USSR would have presented a catastrophic threat to the USA and there is good reason to believe Lindbergh knew that.
@dakopis Hitler was responsible for his own actions and those people in Germany and outside of Germany who supported him, were responsible for their actions. Stop trying to fob off Hitler's responsibility for his actions and his supporters' responsibility for their actions, on the politicians of circa 1918.
If one was suggest a comparable situation in 1940 to having Obama in the White House in 2010, one might imagine what could have happened had Charles Lindbergh been President in 1940.
One of Mr Guthrie's misfortunes is to be born in the USA. It is the Usa's luck that he was born there.
In Europe it isn't a dirty idea to do good by one's fellow man. We don't like sick people to lie on the pavement. One of the worst scenes of poverty I ever saw was kids begging from me barefoot in LA.
The countries of Europe are a bit too welfare-statish, USA is headed in that direction for many years. What part of LA (city), and what ethnic group, as if I have to ask. You've heard the old saying "If you give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll never go hungry", right?
@RattlerBK Unless there's no fish because some people decided they needed more than was necessary to satisfy their hunger and decided to sell some........... I think that's the free market!
@milbomilbo we arent all like that, unfortunately, the corporations own america now and no one thinks about revolt or revolution anymore cuz of some inborn idea of superiority
Well, putting speculations aside, he did have friends with ties to the communist party. This doesn't make him by necessity a communist. I would definitely label him a populist in nearly every sense of the word however. His music seems to transcend the 1930's, and could have easily been written today. In my opinion, he is the greatest songwriter to ever live.
It strikes me weird that people here are discussing trivial matters such as these for it's the song you ought to listen to .
Damn, you folks are so tiresome.
Who cares Communist or what you would label him. Human he was for sure!
Hmm, There's a picture of Woody smiling right into the camera ( really close-up) I saw it on scorsese's no direction home and it saddens me not to find it googling.
My country was "liberated" by the USA. LOL! We were better off before the worthless Yanks showed up.
I agree with the last poster megan1975nc. Lindbergh was a true American patriot. FDR and Stalinist Woody Guthrie were traitors and enemies of the real Europe. May they rot forever. Death to the American Empire!
I agree certainly with you on this point. I have heard many a friend talk about the theory of communism never taking into account the nature of man and freedom. Though the regulations involved with freedom have to be adjusted from time to time as recent economic history has shown us.
I am not sure if Woody was aware and healthy enough to write about the millions Stalin murded in his quest for power. Further investigation is required.
Does your father own a bank in Wall Street? If not you should ask your country to respect human rights and give you free hospitals and schools as we have in the civilized Europe.
Every time when you speak you have to know the diference between the goverment and the formal name of the ideology. In other case be the best between the worst options do not make tha option acceptable, and if the violence was direct (ex. by Rusia, Japan, Nazis, etc.) or indirect (by USA, UK, France... in Africa, South America, Asia...) do not end with the fact that is violence.
Woody still rules! And ain't it funny, even present day nazi's and fascists can't stand his music!
His machine still kills 'em.
Thanks for posting this great piece of history, and btw, Lindy may have had some misguided political views, that flight of his was some feat! read the book by Philip Roth "Plot against America" makes you wonder what might have become of the world had things been a little different. The latter just fiction, but still.. great song!
First off, not all of the people in the nation state were allowed to be a part of the state. Many were forced out on trains.
Secondly, eventually there would have been a problem between the U.S. & Nazi Germany. When one state wants to control the world, it will inevitably have conflicts with all other states.
Thirdly, shouldn't people have some type of moral drive to stop genocide from occurring, whether it be in their own state or not, such as what's happening in Gaza right now?
I pick staying away from foreign entanglements. There's no point in arguing over who did the most harm between the 2 when we could have avoided the entire situation and not provoked JPN. I don't like any kind of mass slaughter but I will say I believe in Nationalism over Communism. The folks of the nation state have a much better quality of life under it until war breaks out.
Albeit communism doesn't work and I'm typically against foreign engagements, but in the context of the second world war, your words are despicable.
Surely the situation deteriorated for Jews and other minorities under Hitler's rule. (Or do you say they don't count.) You ignore that people in occupied france and poland were also worse off.
Finally, Japanese actions in China created very good reasons to place economic pressure on Japan.
I all ready mentioned that there is no point in arguing who commited more attrocities between the two. They were both brutal as all hell. Half of Europe fell under Communist rule after WWII. I still think the over all concept of Nationalism makes a lot more sense than the other. I also mentioned before that I don't like the wholesale slaughter of anyone So believeing in Nationalism does not make one unsypathtic to the holocaust victims. Get it? Do the victims of the Bolsheviks/ Stalin not count?
Get it? Yes of course. However, you must remember that statements often carry implied meanings that are beyond logical conclusions of a statement. This is especially true when discussing genocide. E.G. Saying that Nationalism is better than communism in the context of the 2nd world war.
Since communism doesn't work period, it's kinda like saying I would rather be bitten by a Rotweiler than a pitbull. There is a key difference. Nobody wants to be bitten by dogs.
Some people actually support communism and fascism.
This little detail changes everything. It turns a completely obvious/ meaningless statement into an endorsement of nationalism. Remember that in certain contexts, words inherit additional meanings. Nationalism inherits genocidal and totalitarian qualities from the context of WW2. meaningless statement-> implicit support of nationalism ->support of genocide
This video is about Lindberg. I never mentioned Nazis. YOU DID! Originally I mentioned that he knew better than to get us in a war with the "reds." Your most recent statement implies NS attrocities are worse than those commited by the reds and that is ridiculous. My summary for you is to not pick and chose which killings are worse because they're both terrible. If I was endorsing the Nazis I would have mentioned that the reds killed many more people. I don't think that really matters though.
Why is it that when the average American thinks of the Nazis the first thing they think of is the holocaust? Yet when the same American thinks of Communism the first thing they think of is a failed economic system. It's the same thing with specials on programs like the History Channel. And by the way Nationalism is not inherently = to genocide. Nationalism can work if the internationalist wouldn't sabotage it and like you mentioned before, Communism cannot work!
... Back to context. Your post above disputed the necessity of American involvement in the second world war. Afterwards you said that nationalism was better than communism in a functional sense.
Taken as a separate statement, the second part is not openly inflamatory. Nationalism does not necessarily equal genocide. However, the context of the statement was the second world war. In this context nationalism inherited some pretty nasty associations with genocide.
The point is that I wouldn't pick either one to fight with. I'd stay away from the war like Lindy wanted to. That is instead of picking an evil. If I would have said Communism was better would you come back and say in the context of the war it sounds like I may be supporting Stalin's mass killing or is that lesser than Hitler's? You've just made my point. The media has conditioned people to think the Nazis were killers (which is true) and Communism is unfunctional (w.i.t.) onlyinstead of deadly.
Also, I do not dispute communist atrocities in Russia. However, Russia wasn't the reason we joined the war. (Though we shared a common enemy, we gave them laughably little support throughout the war.)
Arguably it was Western Europe, Britain, and an unprovoked attack on the US pacific fleet that caused us to join the war.
Though you say Pearl Harbor was provoked, it was at the very least a massive escalation by an empire already committing murder in China.
put capo on your second fret - then play c major then d minor back to c - c to g back to c and repeat - of course the actual chords with capo are d to em to d - d to a to d and repeat
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
why didnt he sing a song about all the jews behind roosevelt like bernard baruch felix frankfurter henry morgenthau ect. pushing for and provoking war, roosevelt couldnt handle domestic problems so he became a warmonger and jews were just pissed hitler fixed germanys economy after he booted thier asses out, so they used danzig as an excuse for a world war. baruch was the go between of churchil and roosevelt every speech you watch or read by roosevelt was writen by a jew by the way sam rosenman
In the 1930s & 1940s people knew nothing about stalin. In the 1950s when people (including guthrie) understood the situation in soviet union, they turned against it. Guthrie did not support a dictatorship in russia, or anywhere else. He promoted democracy and civil rights constantly in his songs. Guthrie believed soviet union was a socialist democratic state, athough he was wrong. Stalin ws actually popular throughout much of US in 1940s. What did lindy get wrong about the nazis from 1933-1942?
himanv:"Woody's political activism and being on the side of common American man"
You mean like getting thousands of common men killed in the New Dealers' foreign wars? Woody was as much on the side of the common man as the neocon warmongers of today.
The nazis murdered 40 million people, including millions in death camps and concentration camps. The Japanese murdered 30 million people during ww2. The US & roosevelt helped to free millions from the worst dictatorships in history. The whole of europe, russia & north africa under nazi occupation. China, south east asia, pacific under japanese control. Could any powerful nation stand back and do nothing? Would anyone want to live in this world? A nazi occupied europe for 50 years?
The US should genuinely be proud of its achievments in defeating the nazis and japanese and bringing freedom to millions of people. The world is a better place without the nazis and i'm sure US would be in a worse position if the nazis and japanese had stayed in power. Maybe japan could have sunk the other half of the US navy. If the nazis murdered 40 million in 5 years, what about after 50 years? Imagine death camps across europe for 50 years...would you stand by and do nothing?
Lindbergh was no Nazi. The Jewish Guggenheim family were his patrons in his groundbreaking flights. "Slims's no anti-Semite", said one leading family member, in his defense.
Maybe you do. Read "A Story of America First" by Ruth Sarles, Jewess and active participant in the movement. They were in no way pro-Nazi - a wing of the group argued that US support for Britain would leave America exposed to German attack. The other major wing opposed the war because they felt, like the Ron Paulites nowadays, that war would undermine civil liberties. They were certainly proved right; we're still living with the consequences of FDR's reign today (illegal wiretapping anyone?).
By Hoover, does Guthrie men former President Herbert Hoover (who was an anti-fascist) or FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, who was a favorite of the far right?
What a powerful song. Wish Woody Guthrie's music was easier to find. Any folk or Bob Dylan fan needs to know about Woody Guthrie, who Dylan considered his mentor. Lead Belly is a great musician to listen to and be inspired by as well.
There is a lot of support for Ron Paul. The media isn't reporting it. There's a video that especially demonstrates the numbers of people who support him and their enthusiasm. cut and paste:
How would utilizing greater economic & social freedom, greater personal freedom, and increased civil liberties for all social classes produce the worst totalitarian monster ever seen? I think that Keynesian economics, where the government controls much of the economy, would be more likely to lead to fascism. Where we are going now with increased executive power, a devalued dollar, and a complicit Congress is closer to fascism than true libertarian beliefs. Oh yeah, Woody Guthrie is awesome.
There's a reason why social libertarians were kicked out of the US in the early 1900s, and right wing libertarians weren't. Right wing libertarians have beliefs that are advantageous to the upper class rulers of the US. Currently, the US' gov't works as a buffer zone between the ultra rich total control, albeit slightly. Right wing libertarians want to eliminate this buffer zone, which will give them total control, leading to the worst totalitarian monster ever seen.
Reagan completely abandoned his platform. He pursued the exact opposite of right wing libertarian ideals by increasing government spending, increasing the size of the DOE, going on more worthless foreign entanglements, etc, etc. His platform WAS NOT a libertarian platform.
The true libertarian platform is increased civil liberties, upholding the Constitution, non-interventionist foreign policy, sound money, increased economic freedom regardless of class, and states rights. Don't confuse right wing libertarianism with neoconservatism, they are polar opposites. Right wing libertarians don't want to eliminate the buffer zone, they mistrust government a great deal and want more citizen involvement. I think you are thinking of a totally different philosophy.
As I understand it, Woody's political activism and being on the side of common American man would be more akin to today's Ralph Nader than to Ron Paul...and them two are on totally opposite sides of the polical spectrum.
How laughable for Stalin bootlicker Woody Guthrie to accuse anyone else of collaborating with Hitler. American communists like Guthrie had no problem with Hitler whilst the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact was still in force. Hitler attacks the Soviet Union and suddenly he needs to be stopped!
Charles Lindbergh was one of the great men of the 20th century. Woody Guthrie was a typical example of what Mencken called "boobus Americanus". A pig ignorant American with no knowledge of the outside world.
And when exactly did Woody Guthrie say he supported Stalin? Do some more research before you simplify his entire belief system down to that of an American hating commie. He was never a member of any communist party (though yes, some of the people he associated with were communists) and he certainly was not a pro-Stalinist.
Guthrie wrote songs in the 1930s against racism and fascism, during WW2 he voluntarily joined the merchant navy and the US army, serving in europe. Guthrie wrote songs about poverty, unemployment and also championing democracy, civil activism, etc. As a wise man once said ' i help the poor they say i'm a saint, i ask why they are poor they say i'm a communist'. Anyone who campaigns for a fairer deal for the poor, rather than the interests of big business is usually labelled as a traitor.
oberkorn8 - Why would an opponent of foreign war and Trotskyist internationalism like me want to support war against Iraq? That would be like supporting FDR's imperialist war against Japan and Germany.
You 'oberkorn8' are the internationalist. You even said so in your 'neocon' post.
And by the way, only Zionists go around claiming the Iraq war was for oil. (stop covering up for your Zionist friends).
English was actually my minor in college but psychology was my major. Let me tell you a secret your teachers won't tell you. There is no right or wrong way to speak English as long your meaning is understood by the person
you're speaking to and you're seldom talking to teachers after you graduate from school.
Why would an opponent of foreign war and Trotskyist internationalism like me want to support war against Iraq? That would be like supporting FDR's imperialist war against Japan and Germany.
You 'oberkorn8' are the internationalist. You even said so in your 'neocon' post.
And by the way, only Zionists go around claiming the Iraq war was for oil. (stop covering up for your Zionist friends).
Someone with an English degree with a specialty in linguistics agrees with you.
Prescriptivist grammar is a way to perpetuate class structure. It is used to invalidate the voice of the lower classes. People need to learn to see through it.
we haven't fought fascism or fascist in over 60 years in ...Hitler and Mussolini were all fascist, and GW Bush shows tendences of fascism (Fascism is an authoritarian government that puts the desires of industry and a few elitists far ahead of the desires, needs, and will of their "constituants")Fascism is opposed to and by Socialism and other forms of collectivism. As far as Lindbergh, ask USMC Smedley Bulter about him and Prescott Bush. Do your research, take Poli Sci 101, and know your enemy!
Mao's Communist Party murdered more Chinese than the Japanese Empire or any European Empire or America ever did. Taiwan and Hong Kong gave Chinese more rights and more ecconomic prosperity by Capitalism than the Communists ever did by stealing food from the people of China to get fat on like Mao while millions of Chinese died by starvation.
This is again, beside the point--which dealt with the United States' diplomatic failures in Asia when pitted against the appeal of communism in countries traditionally dominated by colonialism. Neither one of is a Maoist or believes Mao was a "good guy," so you don't have to argue that point.
who sign frigging treaties they don't plan to abide by anymore than dictators abide by any other laws unless somebody is holding a gun on them to make them. "Power comes out of the
I think your forgetting one key point about communism, the point that ultimately led to its failure and end in almost every country its been tried: it doesn't work. When discussing communistic revolutions in China, Vietnam, Korea, we could argue for hours about what led to those revolutions. Without getting into specifics, I would say it was generally failed foreign policy.
Communism is an idea that has been formulated into strict ideologies, such as Leninism and Maoism. What leads people to accept this idea is its appeal.
Karl Marx looked at communism as a science. Essentially, he believed that economies evolved. Capitalism was a necessary component to create communism, because capitalism creates things, communism doesn't. Therefore, Marx theorized that the first countries to undergo communistic revolutions would be the most industrialized.
The New York Times covered up Stalin murdering 17 million Ukrainians to steal their food because their Moscow reporter was getting bribes and sexual favors from Stalin.
I don't think either one of us would argue that Soviet communism was a success. But you have to think critically and logically about history, the way George Orwell asked us to. You have to understand cause and effect relationships to understand history. Communism is an ideology that appealed to a certain group of nations following WW2.
Anyway, I have a new question for you. I can see that you are deeply anti-dictator. So what do you think of the United States' support of dictatorships that fall within our national interests. Let's go with a recent example: Pakistan.
just regressed back to again against any democracy like India but I support anybody at war with Al Qaida Anybody not trying to kill you is a better ally than anybody who is.
I think whether or not Pakistan is a reliable ally in our conflict with Afghanistan is questionable, but I don't want to get too off track.
I'm going to end to this discussion. I enjoyed the debate. I'll leave you with one last comment: in Europe and America, following WW2, socialists had turned away from Stalin, probably the most famous example is someone you've already read, George Orwell. Reread 1984, re-read Animal Farm, listen to Woody Guthrie, and re-read and analyze history critically.
I think most European Socialists are people who want to do what's right, certainly in the British Labour Party at least. I'm skeptical of Socialism being very helpful in clarifying
right and wrong however. Mussolini was a Socialist newspaper editor. Stalin was once a member of the Socialist Internationale.
I find this absolutely astonishing, that you post comment after, after comment, completely unabashedly revealing to anyone who reads this string just how utterly and stultifyingly stupid you are. Where on Earth do you get the notion that you're qualified to make any of these assertions? I mean, it isn't just that I disagree with you, it's that you're full of shit!
I have a college degree, a 144 IQ, and a Constitutional right to freedom of speech I spent 20 years in the US Army defending in trial by combat from Fascists trying to take it away from us, Captain Zeep. What qualifies you to talk stupid?
You can have a college degree, a 144 IQ, be a veteran AND be an asshole. They're not mutually exclusive. Nothing qualifies me to "talk stupid" per se; your comments, I guess, just inspired me to do it.
However, in contrast to Marx's predictions, it wasn't workers in industrialized countries that revolted due to communism's appeal, it was peasants in countries like Russia, China, Vietnam, or Cuba. As Fidel Castro would argue, communism was the natural result of western oppression. If Cuba was too be more than a sugar colony, it needed communism. The same is true in Vietnam and China, where nationalist movements turned into communistic movements.
This is beside my point, which dealt with the appeal of communism in countries that had been traditionally dominated by imperialism. What isn't beside the point is Ho Chi Minh--who originally appealed to the United States, not the Soviets, to allow Vietnam to be independent. Ho Chi Minh literally means "enlightened rule," and he was educated in France. Please read the speech I previously cut and pasted the link for.
Russia, traditionally an empire, is a difficult country to invade. The same harsh, Russian winter that stopped Napoleon was detrimental to Hitler, who failed to learn from history's lessons. The Soviets, led by Uncle Joe as we called him at that time, played a pivotal role in stopping Hitler, something many Americans don't realize. I don't like Stalin, but an all-out war with the Soviets, especially during WW2, would have been extremely detrimental and unrealistic.
It's questionable if the cost of ending Communism at the same time as Fascism could
have cost any more lives than the tens of millions of deaths in Russia, China, Korea, Vietnam,Afghanistan, and all over the world murdered by Communists since then or more money than the massive costs of the Cold War for the next fourty years. Russians had a good reason to fight genocidal Nazis. I have Russian American cousins. I like Russians.
probably not an unreasonable assumption. In any case, the moving finger writes and having writ passes on. There are no failures only lessons learned such as never run away from greedy gangsters you can stop today or you or some other person might have a harder time stopping them and gangsters imitating their success in making you run away tomorrow.
I standby my assertion that every case needs to be looked at carefully and differently, especially if you are trying to lump together different ideologies,
Ron Paul needs to pay attention to this video.
Christian121y 1 month ago
Woody Guthrie=deadbeat dad
HansBooBee 2 months ago
Listen to Lindbergh's Des Moines speech. You'll see how wrong Guthrie was!
HansBooBee 2 months ago
@HansBooBee go fk yourself with a confederate flag, you hun.
Mutakaliim 2 months ago
@Mutakaliim Brilliant argument!
HansBooBee 2 months ago
@Mutakaliim magnificent !! :)
SjoerdErik 1 month ago
Guthrie being a communist tool again. Charles Lindbergh had no choice but to accept the German Eagle cross since, if he had offended Goering and the Germans in 1938, he would not have been able to continue entering German aeronautics factories and working as a spy for the U.S. Air Corp. Because Lindbergh was able to get loads of information on German warplanes, Hap Arnold and Truman Smith were able to forge an air force which could match the power of the German Luftwaffe. Not comic book history.
HerbertHoover 10 months ago
@HerbertHoover Guthrie's not a tool for anybody. If he got misinformation, just imagine how hard it was to get good information back then.
Hister333 10 months ago
@Hister333 You know, that is very true. The "communist tool" line was just a bit of silly hyperbole on my part. Guthrie was a fine American.
HerbertHoover 10 months ago
@HerbertHoover Sure, but you'll have to rmember that such knowledge, meaning the role Lindbergh had in the pre-war years, was no where near the public domain in the time. Furthermore, Woody Guthrie was as much a public figure by then and was neither a communist tool nor allied with the communist party. The fact that he adressed the workers plight makes him a man who actually gave a damn. Being a decent fellow has no political flavor, in the same way Lindbergh wasn't a bloody nazi.
MrMostevilgenius 9 months ago
@MrMostevilgenius He killed his son( he did acidentily and pinned it on a German who got the death penelty for it)
HardRockPolak2 5 months ago 2
@HardRockPolak2 Well, not according to the courts at the time, the fact that Hauptmann (the German you refer to) had a rather large portion of the ransom money in his home and an even larger amount in his garage. I'm not in any way an expert in American legal matters but I'm quite certain Hauptmann would have been found as guilty now as he was then. Too, I'm well aware of the debate regarding this matter and I fail to find the revisionist point of view valid in any way whatsoever.
MrMostevilgenius 4 months ago
@MrMostevilgenius The incedent might not have had relvence to your comment,but it was durring the war and people didnt like germans at the time so that has to be a factor and the money was elegily found on property could have been planted and the ladder that was in Hauptmann's posetion didnt match the ladder prints found on the crime scein. also Lindbergh had climed through his childs windo and took the child out of the house before just to freak out his wife ,
HardRockPolak2 4 months ago
@HardRockPolak2 I'm quite sorry, but you are wrong in more ways than I care to count. The abduction of the Lindbergh child took place in 1932 and Hauptmann was executed in April 1936, meaning the war nor feelings against Germany or Germans had nothing, whatsoever, to do with it. Furthermore, Lindbergh's travels to Germany took place between 1936 and 1938, so again, there is no relation to the abduction and death of his son.
Believe what you will, but at least get your dates right.
MrMostevilgenius 4 months ago
@HerbertHoover shut the fuck up and listen to the great song bitch
weedsmokerweed 9 months ago
@HerbertHoover he had children there too
WVliberty 5 months ago
That last line, along with current thought of '___-American, makes me sad.
awarenessis 10 months ago
What no one seems to mention here is that unknown to the world at large is that Lindbergh was in fact a spy for the United States and his pro Nazi stance was just a front.
That fact was not brought out until after his death
mjl1817 1 year ago
The primary duty of the members of the US Senate is to protect the lives and the liberty of the Citizens of the United States of America, not to act as agents of foreign powers intent on committing mass murder against the Citizens of the United of America and waging War against the United States of America. One of the express purposes of COICA is to shut down criticism of Islamism in the United States of America. I believe the position of US Senator John Cornyn is now untenable.
adrianwainer 1 year ago
Love this,thank you
Tunnelof 1 year ago
Wow. My public education failed me. This is an amazing treasure!
TheKinchdedalus 1 year ago
@TheKinchdedalus Before taking this song's word for it I would advise you to read "Lindbergh vs. Roosevelt: The Rivalry That Divided America" by James Duffy. I think that it does a good job showing Lindbergh as a misunderstood figure in the 1940s and not a fascist sympathizer. It is a very quick read and shows you some unknown history.
HerbertHoover 10 months ago
Both Guthrie and Lindbergh opposed US entry into the war at first. Guthrie changed his mind when Hitler invaded the USSR. Guthrie thought that the US should help defend Soviet Russia.
Lindbergh joined the USAF after Pearl Harbor, and flew several dozen combat missions. Guthrie also volunteered, but never saw active service.
Both Lindbergh and Guthrie were too stupid to grasp what Hitler was about. But Guthrie cared more about namecalling than fighting fascism.
thallassocracy 1 year ago
@thallassocracy Lindbergh was intelligent enough to understand exactly what Adolf Hitler was about. My view is that he was a racist and he was happy to see the Nazis murdering Jews in Germany and would have been happy to see a Nazi dictatorship in America and America's Jews stripped of their civil rights and murdered.
adrianwainer 1 year ago
Comment removed
adrianwainer 1 year ago
@thallassocracy Woodie Guthrie was by profession a singer / songwriter / musician. The question is whether in his association with Communism in the US, he understood the nature of the Stalinist regime in the USSR, there were people in the US who were both decent and intelligent who were tricked by Soviet propaganda.
adrianwainer 1 year ago
As a "Brit" you should get a better grasp of history. The ONLY reason Lindbergh gave any credit to Nazi Germany is because he feared Stalin's Russia more ! The hope was to let Germany and Russia battle it out and then let the democracies of the world come in to pick up the pieces. Truth is, if your nation's leaders wouldn't have bungled the end of WWI,there would have been no Hitler and your mighty empire might still be in existence today.
dakopis 1 year ago
@dakopis Lindebergh was a racist. Your use of the word, " democracies ", would be misleading to many people, in that Lindbergh was not concerned with liberal democracy he was concerned with race. Russia in the 1930s/40s lacked an ability to threaten the United States on its home territory, A Nazi Germany which was victorious over the USSR would have presented a catastrophic threat to the USA and there is good reason to believe Lindbergh knew that.
adrianwainer 1 year ago
@dakopis Hitler was responsible for his own actions and those people in Germany and outside of Germany who supported him, were responsible for their actions. Stop trying to fob off Hitler's responsibility for his actions and his supporters' responsibility for their actions, on the politicians of circa 1918.
adrianwainer 1 year ago
thanks for uploading, and to those have left comments, interesting stuff.
18Brido88 1 year ago
It's interesting to note that people like Lindbergh were the "anti-war" movement of their day.
Christian121y 1 year ago
A favorite of the Bush family along with other righties!
bakunin2010 1 year ago
I can't believe I forgot this song completley. forgot how great it was, thanks for posting. I used to listent o it all the time
WizardBogle01 1 year ago
Read Philip Roth's 'Plot Against America'...It could have turned out very differently.
'when they say America first...they mean America next'
Irarelycommentbut 1 year ago
If one was suggest a comparable situation in 1940 to having Obama in the White House in 2010, one might imagine what could have happened had Charles Lindbergh been President in 1940.
adrianwainer 1 year ago
One of Mr Guthrie's misfortunes is to be born in the USA. It is the Usa's luck that he was born there.
In Europe it isn't a dirty idea to do good by one's fellow man. We don't like sick people to lie on the pavement. One of the worst scenes of poverty I ever saw was kids begging from me barefoot in LA.
come on America workers - this isn't America!
milbomilbo 1 year ago
@milbomilbo
The countries of Europe are a bit too welfare-statish, USA is headed in that direction for many years. What part of LA (city), and what ethnic group, as if I have to ask. You've heard the old saying "If you give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll never go hungry", right?
RattlerBK 1 year ago
@RattlerBK Unless there's no fish because some people decided they needed more than was necessary to satisfy their hunger and decided to sell some........... I think that's the free market!
milbomilbo 1 year ago
@milbomilbo we arent all like that, unfortunately, the corporations own america now and no one thinks about revolt or revolution anymore cuz of some inborn idea of superiority
supsupese 1 year ago
Lindbergh was right. Stay out of other people's war.
scottcarey64 1 year ago 4
"I ain't necesarily a communist, but I've always been in the red." Woody Guthrie
kelanaweiss 1 year ago 3
Brilliant wee song, I'd never heard this one before.
Woody Guthrie - great guy (and Pete Seeger too).
Daisy12630 1 year ago 2
Woody RIP
vivascargill 1 year ago 2
Well, putting speculations aside, he did have friends with ties to the communist party. This doesn't make him by necessity a communist. I would definitely label him a populist in nearly every sense of the word however. His music seems to transcend the 1930's, and could have easily been written today. In my opinion, he is the greatest songwriter to ever live.
tagg125 2 years ago
We need more people like Woody. He is much better than some of today's musicians, and sang about something for a reason. My dad and I love his music.
stickdog100 2 years ago 3
Ah such a raw fine man Woody is.
It strikes me weird that people here are discussing trivial matters such as these for it's the song you ought to listen to .
Damn, you folks are so tiresome.
Who cares Communist or what you would label him. Human he was for sure!
Hmm, There's a picture of Woody smiling right into the camera ( really close-up) I saw it on scorsese's no direction home and it saddens me not to find it googling.
Got to read Bound for Glory sometime..
JophanDbuzzkraut 2 years ago 9
Amen
edgeyp12 2 years ago
@JophanDbuzzkraut Woody said something like "left wing,Right wing, Chicken wing all the same to me. 2 points fer anyone who got the orig quote
1canyonguy 1 year ago
@JophanDbuzzkraut Yeah he wasn't really Communist, he probobly just labeled that as many okies were in the 30s
Zeppelinfaktor 11 months ago
@JophanDbuzzkraut Bound for Glory is a great book about Woody in his own words! The movie was pretty good too!
MacGirvan 7 months ago
My country was "liberated" by the USA. LOL! We were better off before the worthless Yanks showed up.
I agree with the last poster megan1975nc. Lindbergh was a true American patriot. FDR and Stalinist Woody Guthrie were traitors and enemies of the real Europe. May they rot forever. Death to the American Empire!
julesroy 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Woody Guthrie was a stinking Communist unworthy to polish the shoes of a true patriot like Col. Lindbergh.
megan1975nc 2 years ago
lindy made a fool out of himself. he picked the wrong side,the nazis
Herr2Cents 2 years ago 3
@Herr2Cents About as much of a fool as Woody and Pete Seeger made by siding with Stalin and the commies.
libertybraves 2 years ago 2
I agree certainly with you on this point. I have heard many a friend talk about the theory of communism never taking into account the nature of man and freedom. Though the regulations involved with freedom have to be adjusted from time to time as recent economic history has shown us.
I am not sure if Woody was aware and healthy enough to write about the millions Stalin murded in his quest for power. Further investigation is required.
Herr2Cents 2 years ago
Does your father own a bank in Wall Street? If not you should ask your country to respect human rights and give you free hospitals and schools as we have in the civilized Europe.
ripppop 2 years ago 4
Comment removed
megan1975nc 2 years ago
tthe commies beat the nazis you fucking yanks gave them them the equipment to do your dieing for you
Evthedrunk 2 years ago
As a Brit thank you for not listening to the Fascist cunt
Evthedrunk 2 years ago 19
@Evthedrunk As an American, thank you for fighting him alone 'till we had sense enough to join.
vopher 9 months ago 2
@Evthedrunk he wasnt a fascist he had children there
WVliberty 5 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
He could switch Lindy with Obamy and the song has as much meaning today as did then.
UShistoryX2 2 years ago
You Republican types don't half talk some crap.
MarxBakuninMe 2 years ago 6
The don't talk half as much shit as the Nazi lovers and conspiracy theorists.
wvprogressive1933 2 years ago
Every time when you speak you have to know the diference between the goverment and the formal name of the ideology. In other case be the best between the worst options do not make tha option acceptable, and if the violence was direct (ex. by Rusia, Japan, Nazis, etc.) or indirect (by USA, UK, France... in Africa, South America, Asia...) do not end with the fact that is violence.
Fiduciario 2 years ago
I wonder how comfortable the beds are in the white house
GettysburgHisStudent 2 years ago
well we beat the nazis then we beat the commies. you got a problem with that?
maybe you wish the nazis had beat the commies then enslaved the free world?
yes bankers made money on the war but better that we won than germany/japan.
get a clue read a book or believe the lie.
deja2048 2 years ago
you didnt ended with the communists...
kjkj74 2 years ago
Anyone who still thinks of Lindbergh as an American hero should listen to this song, it shows him for the Hitler-lover that he was.
Turk510 2 years ago
HA! Yeah...ok.
NationalCause 2 years ago
my favorite singer, John Mellencamp, changed the words to this and called it "To Washington"
i like both songs =]
pnkhsz107 3 years ago
Woody still rules! And ain't it funny, even present day nazi's and fascists can't stand his music!
His machine still kills 'em.
Thanks for posting this great piece of history, and btw, Lindy may have had some misguided political views, that flight of his was some feat! read the book by Philip Roth "Plot against America" makes you wonder what might have become of the world had things been a little different. The latter just fiction, but still.. great song!
12triggr12 3 years ago 2
First off, not all of the people in the nation state were allowed to be a part of the state. Many were forced out on trains.
Secondly, eventually there would have been a problem between the U.S. & Nazi Germany. When one state wants to control the world, it will inevitably have conflicts with all other states.
Thirdly, shouldn't people have some type of moral drive to stop genocide from occurring, whether it be in their own state or not, such as what's happening in Gaza right now?
TingoTroy 3 years ago
HOLLANDFIRST
luukbos1992 3 years ago
Holland first in Holland. America first in America. INTERNATIONAL NATIONALISM!
J15V45 3 years ago
America First!
vilaboastream 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This song sucks! Lindberg was a great American Patriot with a brilliant mind. He new better than for us to get in a war along side the reds.
J15V45 3 years ago
So you pick the Nazis over the Reds?
TingoTroy 3 years ago
I pick staying away from foreign entanglements. There's no point in arguing over who did the most harm between the 2 when we could have avoided the entire situation and not provoked JPN. I don't like any kind of mass slaughter but I will say I believe in Nationalism over Communism. The folks of the nation state have a much better quality of life under it until war breaks out.
J15V45 3 years ago 2
Albeit communism doesn't work and I'm typically against foreign engagements, but in the context of the second world war, your words are despicable.
Surely the situation deteriorated for Jews and other minorities under Hitler's rule. (Or do you say they don't count.) You ignore that people in occupied france and poland were also worse off.
Finally, Japanese actions in China created very good reasons to place economic pressure on Japan.
NoOne3234 3 years ago
Note: atrocities committed by japan and Germany would have been committed regardless of US entry into the war.
NoOne3234 3 years ago
I all ready mentioned that there is no point in arguing who commited more attrocities between the two. They were both brutal as all hell. Half of Europe fell under Communist rule after WWII. I still think the over all concept of Nationalism makes a lot more sense than the other. I also mentioned before that I don't like the wholesale slaughter of anyone So believeing in Nationalism does not make one unsypathtic to the holocaust victims. Get it? Do the victims of the Bolsheviks/ Stalin not count?
J15V45 3 years ago
Get it? Yes of course. However, you must remember that statements often carry implied meanings that are beyond logical conclusions of a statement. This is especially true when discussing genocide. E.G. Saying that Nationalism is better than communism in the context of the 2nd world war.
Since communism doesn't work period, it's kinda like saying I would rather be bitten by a Rotweiler than a pitbull. There is a key difference. Nobody wants to be bitten by dogs.
NoOne3234 3 years ago
Some people actually support communism and fascism.
This little detail changes everything. It turns a completely obvious/ meaningless statement into an endorsement of nationalism. Remember that in certain contexts, words inherit additional meanings. Nationalism inherits genocidal and totalitarian qualities from the context of WW2. meaningless statement-> implicit support of nationalism ->support of genocide
Summary:try not to sound like a fascist.
(don't pitbull's hurt more than rotweilers?)
NoOne3234 3 years ago
This video is about Lindberg. I never mentioned Nazis. YOU DID! Originally I mentioned that he knew better than to get us in a war with the "reds." Your most recent statement implies NS attrocities are worse than those commited by the reds and that is ridiculous. My summary for you is to not pick and chose which killings are worse because they're both terrible. If I was endorsing the Nazis I would have mentioned that the reds killed many more people. I don't think that really matters though.
J15V45 3 years ago
Why is it that when the average American thinks of the Nazis the first thing they think of is the holocaust? Yet when the same American thinks of Communism the first thing they think of is a failed economic system. It's the same thing with specials on programs like the History Channel. And by the way Nationalism is not inherently = to genocide. Nationalism can work if the internationalist wouldn't sabotage it and like you mentioned before, Communism cannot work!
J15V45 3 years ago
... Back to context. Your post above disputed the necessity of American involvement in the second world war. Afterwards you said that nationalism was better than communism in a functional sense.
Taken as a separate statement, the second part is not openly inflamatory. Nationalism does not necessarily equal genocide. However, the context of the statement was the second world war. In this context nationalism inherited some pretty nasty associations with genocide.
NoOne3234 3 years ago
The point is that I wouldn't pick either one to fight with. I'd stay away from the war like Lindy wanted to. That is instead of picking an evil. If I would have said Communism was better would you come back and say in the context of the war it sounds like I may be supporting Stalin's mass killing or is that lesser than Hitler's? You've just made my point. The media has conditioned people to think the Nazis were killers (which is true) and Communism is unfunctional (w.i.t.) onlyinstead of deadly.
J15V45 3 years ago 2
Also, I do not dispute communist atrocities in Russia. However, Russia wasn't the reason we joined the war. (Though we shared a common enemy, we gave them laughably little support throughout the war.)
Arguably it was Western Europe, Britain, and an unprovoked attack on the US pacific fleet that caused us to join the war.
Though you say Pearl Harbor was provoked, it was at the very least a massive escalation by an empire already committing murder in China.
NoOne3234 3 years ago
Japan killed 20 million chinese, 90% of them were innocent civilians. So who was the worst?
sbmillionair 2 years ago
when did they do that? im intrested in genocides, since every gov is bad, when did japan kill all those chinese
SWAT1307 2 years ago
1937-1945
sbmillionair 2 years ago 3
Google "The Rape of Nanking"
MaaddMike 2 years ago 3
put capo on your second fret - then play c major then d minor back to c - c to g back to c and repeat - of course the actual chords with capo are d to em to d - d to a to d and repeat
spiddlestix 3 years ago
Does anybody know the chrords of the intro?
Many thanks.
vinnythedon 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
why didnt he sing a song about all the jews behind roosevelt like bernard baruch felix frankfurter henry morgenthau ect. pushing for and provoking war, roosevelt couldnt handle domestic problems so he became a warmonger and jews were just pissed hitler fixed germanys economy after he booted thier asses out, so they used danzig as an excuse for a world war. baruch was the go between of churchil and roosevelt every speech you watch or read by roosevelt was writen by a jew by the way sam rosenman
barleyz3 3 years ago
Woody was right about Hitler but he also sang the praises of Stalin. Supporting one tyrant over another.
chubwright 3 years ago
In the 1930s & 1940s people knew nothing about stalin. In the 1950s when people (including guthrie) understood the situation in soviet union, they turned against it. Guthrie did not support a dictatorship in russia, or anywhere else. He promoted democracy and civil rights constantly in his songs. Guthrie believed soviet union was a socialist democratic state, athough he was wrong. Stalin ws actually popular throughout much of US in 1940s. What did lindy get wrong about the nazis from 1933-1942?
cliveindia7 3 years ago 2
himanv:"Woody's political activism and being on the side of common American man"
You mean like getting thousands of common men killed in the New Dealers' foreign wars? Woody was as much on the side of the common man as the neocon warmongers of today.
julesroy 3 years ago
lindy supported hitler and the nazis woody opposed them. he was no conservative, neo- or otherwise
jimpoleary 3 years ago
The nazis murdered 40 million people, including millions in death camps and concentration camps. The Japanese murdered 30 million people during ww2. The US & roosevelt helped to free millions from the worst dictatorships in history. The whole of europe, russia & north africa under nazi occupation. China, south east asia, pacific under japanese control. Could any powerful nation stand back and do nothing? Would anyone want to live in this world? A nazi occupied europe for 50 years?
cliveindia7 3 years ago
The US should genuinely be proud of its achievments in defeating the nazis and japanese and bringing freedom to millions of people. The world is a better place without the nazis and i'm sure US would be in a worse position if the nazis and japanese had stayed in power. Maybe japan could have sunk the other half of the US navy. If the nazis murdered 40 million in 5 years, what about after 50 years? Imagine death camps across europe for 50 years...would you stand by and do nothing?
cliveindia7 3 years ago 2
America Comes FIRST !
LAMF1968 3 years ago
Damn if Woodie wasn't the most common sensenistic Guy ever.
We could use one like him today.
About the best America has Produced.
Ever.
bouncedrealitycheck 3 years ago
Comment removed
LAMF1968 3 years ago
This is awesome!!!!! Thanks so much!!!! Muchas Gracias en Chile teniamos Victor Jara. M
mzambo666 3 years ago
Lindbergh was no Nazi. The Jewish Guggenheim family were his patrons in his groundbreaking flights. "Slims's no anti-Semite", said one leading family member, in his defense.
kalki02 3 years ago
He was a Nazi sympathiser. You need to read some history of the America First committee.
SusanIP 3 years ago
Maybe you do. Read "A Story of America First" by Ruth Sarles, Jewess and active participant in the movement. They were in no way pro-Nazi - a wing of the group argued that US support for Britain would leave America exposed to German attack. The other major wing opposed the war because they felt, like the Ron Paulites nowadays, that war would undermine civil liberties. They were certainly proved right; we're still living with the consequences of FDR's reign today (illegal wiretapping anyone?).
BeforeGod 3 years ago
Well now all you people with money understand, the dirt poor work the earth and their the real Americans...tell Washington, tell Washington
Jay0Uticano 3 years ago 2
anybody know what cd this recording can be found on?
citizensquirel90 3 years ago
This Land is Your Land: The Asch Recordings Vol. 1. Released by Smithsonian/Folkways.
allenchampagne 3 years ago
Good slide show. Helps someone that lacks in there American history but still love music
davedude6277 3 years ago
By Hoover, does Guthrie men former President Herbert Hoover (who was an anti-fascist) or FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, who was a favorite of the far right?
HerbertHoover 3 years ago
Herb
ewd76 3 years ago
What a powerful song. Wish Woody Guthrie's music was easier to find. Any folk or Bob Dylan fan needs to know about Woody Guthrie, who Dylan considered his mentor. Lead Belly is a great musician to listen to and be inspired by as well.
tarzanofcouches 3 years ago
You can find nearly all Woody's albums from most torrent search sites, and download them for free!
blondebouclee 3 years ago
There is a lot of support for Ron Paul. The media isn't reporting it. There's a video that especially demonstrates the numbers of people who support him and their enthusiasm. cut and paste:
watch?v=a-qBan8mOiA
to watch. It is very inspiring and heartening.
Vote for freedom.
Ron Paul '08
katards 3 years ago
Just because Woody's son supports Ron Paul, it doesn't mean that Woody would, and you shouldn't be printing the American libertarian propaganda here.
TingoTroy 3 years ago
Woody Guthrie was anti-fascism and so is Ron Paul. Woody was also the consummate father and husband, and I believe he raised his son very well.
katards 3 years ago
If you actually pursued the ideals of the libertarian party you would create the worst totalitarian monster the world has ever seen.
I believe that Woody would understand this. It is unfortunate that Arlo does not. However, it would be unfair to expect Arlo to be Woody.
TingoTroy 3 years ago
How would utilizing greater economic & social freedom, greater personal freedom, and increased civil liberties for all social classes produce the worst totalitarian monster ever seen? I think that Keynesian economics, where the government controls much of the economy, would be more likely to lead to fascism. Where we are going now with increased executive power, a devalued dollar, and a complicit Congress is closer to fascism than true libertarian beliefs. Oh yeah, Woody Guthrie is awesome.
tarzanofcouches 3 years ago
There's a reason why social libertarians were kicked out of the US in the early 1900s, and right wing libertarians weren't. Right wing libertarians have beliefs that are advantageous to the upper class rulers of the US. Currently, the US' gov't works as a buffer zone between the ultra rich total control, albeit slightly. Right wing libertarians want to eliminate this buffer zone, which will give them total control, leading to the worst totalitarian monster ever seen.
TingoTroy 3 years ago 3
Social libertarians understand that no one person or small group should have the right to possess all of the wealth, right wing libertarians do not.
Let's remember that Reagan used the term libertarian to describe his beliefs before he ever became president.
TingoTroy 3 years ago 2
Reagan completely abandoned his platform. He pursued the exact opposite of right wing libertarian ideals by increasing government spending, increasing the size of the DOE, going on more worthless foreign entanglements, etc, etc. His platform WAS NOT a libertarian platform.
tarzanofcouches 3 years ago 4
The true libertarian platform is increased civil liberties, upholding the Constitution, non-interventionist foreign policy, sound money, increased economic freedom regardless of class, and states rights. Don't confuse right wing libertarianism with neoconservatism, they are polar opposites. Right wing libertarians don't want to eliminate the buffer zone, they mistrust government a great deal and want more citizen involvement. I think you are thinking of a totally different philosophy.
tarzanofcouches 3 years ago
Stop getting hung up on labels and wake up to who the real enemies are. The old labels are irrelevant. Move on.
katards 3 years ago
You used the term fascism in your last post. That is a label, and a very old one.
Labeling things is fundamental human nature. Concepts must be labeled in the same way that objects must so that we can communicate with one another.
TingoTroy 3 years ago
You're right, language is limiting. Corporatism would probably more nearly approximate the concept I am trying to convey. Namaste.
katards 3 years ago
As I understand it, Woody's political activism and being on the side of common American man would be more akin to today's Ralph Nader than to Ron Paul...and them two are on totally opposite sides of the polical spectrum.
himanv 3 years ago
How laughable for Stalin bootlicker Woody Guthrie to accuse anyone else of collaborating with Hitler. American communists like Guthrie had no problem with Hitler whilst the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact was still in force. Hitler attacks the Soviet Union and suddenly he needs to be stopped!
Charles Lindbergh was one of the great men of the 20th century. Woody Guthrie was a typical example of what Mencken called "boobus Americanus". A pig ignorant American with no knowledge of the outside world.
julesroy 3 years ago
And when exactly did Woody Guthrie say he supported Stalin? Do some more research before you simplify his entire belief system down to that of an American hating commie. He was never a member of any communist party (though yes, some of the people he associated with were communists) and he certainly was not a pro-Stalinist.
will1311 3 years ago 4
Guthrie wrote songs in the 1930s against racism and fascism, during WW2 he voluntarily joined the merchant navy and the US army, serving in europe. Guthrie wrote songs about poverty, unemployment and also championing democracy, civil activism, etc. As a wise man once said ' i help the poor they say i'm a saint, i ask why they are poor they say i'm a communist'. Anyone who campaigns for a fairer deal for the poor, rather than the interests of big business is usually labelled as a traitor.
cliveindia7 3 years ago 4
oh hush up and go to Iraq and join the oil war for bush, the big dick and halliburton!
you are unworthy of commenting on a great internationalist like woodrow guthrie
oberkorn8 3 years ago 2
oberkorn8 - Why would an opponent of foreign war and Trotskyist internationalism like me want to support war against Iraq? That would be like supporting FDR's imperialist war against Japan and Germany.
You 'oberkorn8' are the internationalist. You even said so in your 'neocon' post.
And by the way, only Zionists go around claiming the Iraq war was for oil. (stop covering up for your Zionist friends).
julesroy 3 years ago
English was actually my minor in college but psychology was my major. Let me tell you a secret your teachers won't tell you. There is no right or wrong way to speak English as long your meaning is understood by the person
you're speaking to and you're seldom talking to teachers after you graduate from school.
Texasjim2007 3 years ago 3
loved this comment
rapturedsound9 3 years ago
Why would an opponent of foreign war and Trotskyist internationalism like me want to support war against Iraq? That would be like supporting FDR's imperialist war against Japan and Germany.
You 'oberkorn8' are the internationalist. You even said so in your 'neocon' post.
And by the way, only Zionists go around claiming the Iraq war was for oil. (stop covering up for your Zionist friends).
julesroy 3 years ago
Someone with an English degree with a specialty in linguistics agrees with you.
Prescriptivist grammar is a way to perpetuate class structure. It is used to invalidate the voice of the lower classes. People need to learn to see through it.
TingoTroy 3 years ago
Brilliant, just brilliant.
rondar623 3 years ago 2
This is brilliant - one of the best amateur videos I've ever seen on Youtube.
Pugachev330 3 years ago
we haven't fought fascism or fascist in over 60 years in ...Hitler and Mussolini were all fascist, and GW Bush shows tendences of fascism (Fascism is an authoritarian government that puts the desires of industry and a few elitists far ahead of the desires, needs, and will of their "constituants")Fascism is opposed to and by Socialism and other forms of collectivism. As far as Lindbergh, ask USMC Smedley Bulter about him and Prescott Bush. Do your research, take Poli Sci 101, and know your enemy!
wvcoonazz 3 years ago
Lindbergh was the greatest American to ever live! Ignore Stalin's songbirds.
phelps0000 3 years ago
Lindbergh supported eugenics.
TingoTroy 3 years ago
I never heard this song before. I love it, thanks for posting it.
jeangeenie 3 years ago 2
Lindbergh would be a good anti-war progressive today.
RobGoth100 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Guthrie was a Communist who was against the American involvement as well until the Soviet Union was invaded.
RobGoth100 3 years ago
go to school man
itsok1989 3 years ago 6
Mao's Communist Party murdered more Chinese than the Japanese Empire or any European Empire or America ever did. Taiwan and Hong Kong gave Chinese more rights and more ecconomic prosperity by Capitalism than the Communists ever did by stealing food from the people of China to get fat on like Mao while millions of Chinese died by starvation.
Texasjim2007 4 years ago
This is again, beside the point--which dealt with the United States' diplomatic failures in Asia when pitted against the appeal of communism in countries traditionally dominated by colonialism. Neither one of is a Maoist or believes Mao was a "good guy," so you don't have to argue that point.
JCennamo1 4 years ago
There are no failures only lessons learned.
I'm not a diplomat but diplomacy is worthless
most of the time dealing with dictatorships
who sign frigging treaties they don't plan to abide by anymore than dictators abide by any other laws unless somebody is holding a gun on them to make them. "Power comes out of the
barrel of gun."-Mao's Little Red Book.
Texasjim2007 4 years ago
I think your forgetting one key point about communism, the point that ultimately led to its failure and end in almost every country its been tried: it doesn't work. When discussing communistic revolutions in China, Vietnam, Korea, we could argue for hours about what led to those revolutions. Without getting into specifics, I would say it was generally failed foreign policy.
revjoesaves 4 years ago
What leads to Communist revolutions is greedy
Communists who want to rob and extort other people's property gaining superior firepower
to everybody else. Fascism works pretty much
the same way. Our 1st Amendment is followed by our 2nd Amendment here for a good reason
wisely foreseen by our revolutionary founders
Texasjim2007 4 years ago
Communism is an idea that has been formulated into strict ideologies, such as Leninism and Maoism. What leads people to accept this idea is its appeal.
Karl Marx looked at communism as a science. Essentially, he believed that economies evolved. Capitalism was a necessary component to create communism, because capitalism creates things, communism doesn't. Therefore, Marx theorized that the first countries to undergo communistic revolutions would be the most industrialized.
revjoesaves 4 years ago
Communism has never been anything but a scam.
The New York Times covered up Stalin murdering 17 million Ukrainians to steal their food because their Moscow reporter was getting bribes and sexual favors from Stalin.
It's poison falsely advertised as medicine.
Texasjim2007 4 years ago
I don't think either one of us would argue that Soviet communism was a success. But you have to think critically and logically about history, the way George Orwell asked us to. You have to understand cause and effect relationships to understand history. Communism is an ideology that appealed to a certain group of nations following WW2.
revjoesaves 4 years ago
Anyway, I have a new question for you. I can see that you are deeply anti-dictator. So what do you think of the United States' support of dictatorships that fall within our national interests. Let's go with a recent example: Pakistan.
revjoesaves 4 years ago
The only good reason to support any tyranny
is when it's beneficial to help stop a more
dangerous tyranny which is why FDR supported
Stalin against Hitler who murdered people at
a faster rate than Stalin. We should never
side with any dictatorship like Pakistan has
just regressed back to again against any democracy like India but I support anybody at war with Al Qaida Anybody not trying to kill you is a better ally than anybody who is.
Texasjim2007 4 years ago
I think whether or not Pakistan is a reliable ally in our conflict with Afghanistan is questionable, but I don't want to get too off track.
I'm going to end to this discussion. I enjoyed the debate. I'll leave you with one last comment: in Europe and America, following WW2, socialists had turned away from Stalin, probably the most famous example is someone you've already read, George Orwell. Reread 1984, re-read Animal Farm, listen to Woody Guthrie, and re-read and analyze history critically.
JCennamo1 4 years ago
I think most European Socialists are people who want to do what's right, certainly in the British Labour Party at least. I'm skeptical of Socialism being very helpful in clarifying
right and wrong however. Mussolini was a Socialist newspaper editor. Stalin was once a member of the Socialist Internationale.
Texasjim2007 4 years ago
I find this absolutely astonishing, that you post comment after, after comment, completely unabashedly revealing to anyone who reads this string just how utterly and stultifyingly stupid you are. Where on Earth do you get the notion that you're qualified to make any of these assertions? I mean, it isn't just that I disagree with you, it's that you're full of shit!
CaptainZeep 4 years ago
I have a college degree, a 144 IQ, and a Constitutional right to freedom of speech I spent 20 years in the US Army defending in trial by combat from Fascists trying to take it away from us, Captain Zeep. What qualifies you to talk stupid?
Texasjim2007 4 years ago
You can have a college degree, a 144 IQ, be a veteran AND be an asshole. They're not mutually exclusive. Nothing qualifies me to "talk stupid" per se; your comments, I guess, just inspired me to do it.
CaptainZeep 4 years ago 2
Funny how that 144 IQ missed a couple of commas. I only have 132 and caught that one.
rondar623 3 years ago
However, in contrast to Marx's predictions, it wasn't workers in industrialized countries that revolted due to communism's appeal, it was peasants in countries like Russia, China, Vietnam, or Cuba. As Fidel Castro would argue, communism was the natural result of western oppression. If Cuba was too be more than a sugar colony, it needed communism. The same is true in Vietnam and China, where nationalist movements turned into communistic movements.
revjoesaves 4 years ago
Chiang Kai Chek was Soviet educated dictator
and without Soviet arms shipments neither Ho
Chi Minh, Fidel Castro, nor Mao would have been able to set up their murdering Fascist dictatorships modelled after Stalins.
Texasjim2007 4 years ago
This is beside my point, which dealt with the appeal of communism in countries that had been traditionally dominated by imperialism. What isn't beside the point is Ho Chi Minh--who originally appealed to the United States, not the Soviets, to allow Vietnam to be independent. Ho Chi Minh literally means "enlightened rule," and he was educated in France. Please read the speech I previously cut and pasted the link for.
revjoesaves 4 years ago
Stalin killed more people than Hitler but only because we fought a war that gave Hitler
a shorter lifespan. The Nazis killed people to rob them at a faster rate than Communists
did so they were more dangerous. We should have hung Stalin and Hitler on the same rope. More people die from tyranny than fighting it.
Texasjim2007 4 years ago
Russia, traditionally an empire, is a difficult country to invade. The same harsh, Russian winter that stopped Napoleon was detrimental to Hitler, who failed to learn from history's lessons. The Soviets, led by Uncle Joe as we called him at that time, played a pivotal role in stopping Hitler, something many Americans don't realize. I don't like Stalin, but an all-out war with the Soviets, especially during WW2, would have been extremely detrimental and unrealistic.
revjoesaves 4 years ago
It's questionable if the cost of ending Communism at the same time as Fascism could
have cost any more lives than the tens of millions of deaths in Russia, China, Korea, Vietnam,Afghanistan, and all over the world murdered by Communists since then or more money than the massive costs of the Cold War for the next fourty years. Russians had a good reason to fight genocidal Nazis. I have Russian American cousins. I like Russians.
Texasjim2007 4 years ago
So I guess my answer to your question is much more lives would have been unnecessarily lost had we fought a non-cold war.
revjoesaves 4 years ago
Well, after Stalin got nuclear weapons, that's
probably not an unreasonable assumption. In any case, the moving finger writes and having writ passes on. There are no failures only lessons learned such as never run away from greedy gangsters you can stop today or you or some other person might have a harder time stopping them and gangsters imitating their success in making you run away tomorrow.
Texasjim2007 4 years ago
I standby my assertion that every case needs to be looked at carefully and differently, especially if you are trying to lump together different ideologies,