cosmology and the enormous universe and us on this tiny insignificant planet is proof of god.
creation in the bible was a monotheistic re-hash of the Marduk vs. the sea serpent Tiamat.
it starts off with from once upon high, not 'in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth... darkness was over the surface of the deep. This was the cosmic ocean of most religions. Marduk killed Tiamat and opened her shell which created the land above and under the water - like Yahweh creating sky/ground
JESUS CHRIST, HIS CATHOLIC-UNIVERSAL-APOSTOLIC CHURCH, SACRAMENTS, THE BIBLE, MIRACLES, HEALINGS, ST. MARY APPARITIONS, MESSAGES FROM HEAVEN, SIGNS IN 2011 ARE NOT A MYTHOLOGY BUT THE REALITY !!!
This is hilarious, this guy is proving the Bible in his very opening statement! Here's why.....This guy is right, the telescope has proven there are 70 sextillion stars (and counting) and we no longer believe there are between 5-7000. He proves the Bible. God told Abraham that his seed would be more than the sand on the beaches, and more than the stars if he could count them (a similarity). Well man believed there were only 5-7000, but Abraham was told they were uncountable. God is amazing!
@ChuckNorrisKratosLOL ok whats ur evidence thats hes not? he could just as well be? if everything has been created then there has 2 be something or someone who created everything!
These debates would be so much shorter if believers just accepted that they believe because they believe, and it's personal, and requires faith. Rather than trying to push their personal beliefs into the gaps between genuine knowledge, and attempting to convince others that any gap - for as long as it is a gap - can accommodate their fear of NOT KNOWING. Read: God.
It's so weak how these apologists start off so well, but eventually they grind it on down to pushing a god into the explanation. It all comes down to the absurd foundations of their entire position, and it's just so... weak.
How on earth do they get to god, and not just have their brains implode with the sheer weight of stupidity? How can they generate these elaborate statements, using what they KNOW to be true in science, to justify something they need FAITH to BELIEVE at all?
@UnitedKingdomify Excellent comment. Yes, I believe a question in these debates referencing what you mentioned is: "Now what exact logical method are you using to infer that which is only knowable by faith using information from the repeatedly observable natural world?"
@UnitedKingdomify an intelligent cause of the universe, rationality, consciousness, morality and YOU....how is any of this irrational? With all that we know of DNA and information, do you REALLY think it all came about by chance, from NOTHING? really? I believe in a highly intelligent being who gave us life. All the evidence points to this. Atheism , as it turns out, is the belief in "magic". It's as silly as believing a tornado hurling through a junkyard can produce a Boeing 767 :)
@dwheel39 Wow. You "believe". Like I give a rats ass. People believe ridiculous things on insufficient evidence. Atheism doesn't make any claims. It is the rejection of the claims of theists. Therefore it is the only rational position.
Frankly, you're an idiot.
You'll stop being an idiot the moment you stop saying "Well I believe in.." like it matters or anyone cares. You'll stop being an idiot when you can honestly say "I don't know" to the questions we as a species don't have answers for yet.
@UnitedKingdomify wouldn't all of that apply to YOUR BELIEFS as well.Or maybe you WERE around 13 billion years ago and saw how the universe came to be. If not, then your non-theistic explanations for the origin of universe are simply "beliefs" too my friend :) But what comports most with reality? What best explains EVERYTHING? How can atheism possibly be considered "rational" when it undermines the concept of rationality itself? how do you get laws of logic from inorganic matter?
@UnitedKingdomify . . . also think about this: every time you argue (va YouTube comments or otherwise) you are validating the existence of God. You use REASON to argue for TRUTH and make MORAL judgments about theism, yet these concepts make NO sense without God. And none of those can exist in a purely material world that atheism has painted for us. YET, they DO exist! you believe this too or you wouldn't take the time to call me an "idiot" :)
@dwheel39 God claims have no foundation beyond their origins in archaic texts and scripture stemming from the iron age and beyond. I have no idea which god - of the many mankind has posited - you're even claiming exists.
Pull your head out of your behind. God doesn't explain anything. Saying you believe it and asking me to on insufficient evidence is absurd. You don't know any more than I do about the origins of the universe. But you feel obligated to make claims. I don't.
@UnitedKingdomify insufficient evidence??? from the microscopic world of the cell which is set up like a factory to replicate and produce according to preset instructions, to the macro world of the cosmos and all the fine tuning parameters that give you and i a nice place to live, and including your conscious self that reflects on meaning and purpose and asks "why" and "how"...you REALLY don't think there's more to life than what materialists say?
A WLC clone--someone who is contemptuous of his audience that he is willing to tell them the initial inflation was an explosion--a chemical reaction requiring oxygen! Or maybe he is so stupid he believes what he says.
I do not know if there is a god. I personally don't have the kind of evidence that I would need to believe in something like that. I highly doubt that a god or gods exist. From my studies of the three world religions, I can definitely say that the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, does not exist. no question about that for me.
Thinking about where the universe came from makes my brain hurt! You scientists might have all your statistics and supporting evidence, but textbooks are boring.
I think I'll just go with....uh.....let's see here... a magical man in the sky did it! Yeah that must be it! I'll call this magical man "GOD".
@xenomann442 Thinking about where the universe came from makes my brain hurt! Scientists have NO evidence for causality and bringing religion into it would make me an idiot. I think I'll just stick my thumb in my butthole and spin on it until science makes up a good enough theory and until then try to make people who believe in God feel stupid.
@xenomann442 Thinking about where the universe came from makes MY brain hurt too! You scientists, theologians, and philosophers have all your evidence from design and rational arguments regarding GOD, BUT, this implies the existence of objective morality which places impositions on my life and i want to be free to do as i please.
I think i'll just go with ...uh...let's see here...i'll just say that EVERYTHING came from NOTHING...as if by MAGIC...yeah!
This is the eternal fallacy of theists. We don't know where the big bang came from or how it got created. Therefore (drum-roll) it's obviously god. Namely their brand of god. Not the Catholic god. Or the Mormon god. Nope! Their god.
Throw in as much science as you can fathom. You're still left with the burden of proof. It's silly, puerile and for such an intelligent person, it's just downright embarrassing.
I dont say and cannot say that there is no god. I simply dont know and neither do you? Your belief however lays you open to all sorts of in my opinion barmy nonsense that until we die we cannot verify. If my question is silly then so is the idea of a heavenly father answering our prayors. He's really not doing a good job is he? But then again I'm rational and ask questions and by your definition therefore silly? Dream on!!!!!
@bigguitar22 The fact that something came from nothing, is supernatural. No matter how much science tries to rationalize it, it's still something of a supernatural occurrence, and it sounds like it comes out of Genesis.
God is the first cause of everything. He is the Alpha, and the Omega.
Lets assume for a second that you're right. Then who created god? This doesn't really get us anywhere does it? Maybe the universe was created by a god - I dont know and neither do you. But I will hazard a guess the creator if one exists was not the stone age infantile tyrant referred to in the bible? Once again where is your evidence? How is it you believe a universe cannot come into existence spontaneously but a god can?
@bigguitar22 That's such a silly question. It's actually pretty sad.
Nobody created God. He is the alpha and the omega, the beginning, and the end. God is the creator of all things, and the source to all life. So nothing created God. God created everything.
The evidence of God is Jesus Christ, and the eye witness testimony of the New Testament. To claim that the Universe was created spontaneously, takes a lot of faith, since it also begs the question.
@Transformers217 You say my question was silly. Is it as silly as some of the foolish propositions espoused by believers? God had to come from somewhere didn't he - or has he always been there - now that does sound a bit silly doesn't it? Again, what evidence do you have for god's existence - spurious accounts of the message he sent us through Christ - who may or may not have existed and may or may not have been god's son. Why would an omnipotent god need children - its all silly - very silly!
@bigguitar22 Again, that's a silly question, and it makes no sense. God didn't come from anywhere, since he was already there. The Universe was created, God is not created.
@bigguitar22 The evidence for God's existence is in the Bible, and Jesus Christ. Jesus existed, and he was not only the son of God, but God in the flesh. He was the image of God.
@Transformers217 How can you know this? Answer is it is your belief and that's different from knowing something. Also, because the bible says so means nothing. The bible advocates slavery and murder - do you believe that also or like many religious people do you factor out the bits you dont like? Think for yourself for a change. The bible is not evidence of anything other than men wrote it?
@bigguitar22 No, what the Bible says means everything. I believe that the Bible is divinely inspired, and that's been verified through the scriptures that I've read and put to the test. And the New Testament has been shown to be an historical document. And since Jesus existed, that means the only knowledge that we have of his life is in the New Testament.
The Bible doesn't advocate slavery, or murder. Especially not in the New Testament, which is the law of peace.
@Transformers217 You do know the meaning of slavery after all! You are a slave to the bible. How can you put scriptures to the test? Can you do miracles perhaps? Can you talk directly to god and more importantly does he answer back? What is the objective test of scripture? You say you know god but you aren't sure of the gender? Would an omnipotent god have a gender - or a son for that matter? Our chats have been fun but there is no purpose to further discussion until you free yourself. Goodbye!
@bigguitar22 I put scriptures to the test by looking at the meanings behind them, what the original language actually meant during it's time, and different Bible studies.
If a pastor, theologian, or anybody is preaching or talking about what is written within the Bible, I put to the test by reading what is being preach and dissecting it.
@bigguitar22 By the son of God, it means the image. At least that's one interpretation, but it fits with what is meant in the original Greek language. Jesus was the image of God. So when you're looking at him, you're looking at God.
@Transformers217 Yes, they say the same thing about the koran. "Islam is peace"....ya what a load of shit. Pretty obvious from an outside view, just like christianity is from my outside view.
If god exists, why hiding. He went through so much trouble, 2.000 years ago to save us from the hell--- he created--. Yet, it seems too much, to give every generation a little unmistakable sign of his existence.
@Victoruto Something as always existed. It is not necessary, nor does it give any advantage, to invoke a supernatural being.. All it does is cut- off any further queston or seraching for the truth.
@lizazoon If it is not God that has always existed, then what is the "something has always existed"? If it is not the universe, which, according to modern science came into being, then it is, by definition, a supernatural being that has existed causally prior to the universe. It seems to me that the supernatural is necessary. What's your take?
@Victoruto Energy is a good candidate, since it cannot be created nor destroyed. Saying it`s god, solves nothing. It just stops all further research, all further arguments.
@lizazoon It's actually matter that cannot be created or destroyed; energy is winding down. And only within the natural system can matter not be created or destroyed. Secondly, energy is a property of the universe, but how could energy exist apart from space, time, and mater? Thirdly, where does space, time, and matter come from? Fourthly, energy is impersonal, thus it's alleged effect (the universe as you propose) can not be causally prior to the universe, for it cannot will anything.
@Victoruto Matter is energy. Did you make any experiment with energy out of the natural system ? So on what is your claim based ?Nothing can exist apart from space time and matter, god included(if there is one). Something existing "out of space and time", is a contradictio in terminis. It is a formula invented by creationists, that means exactly NOTHING. Something must have exixted from all eternity. To say it`s" a supernatural being", doesn`t solve anything. It`s a conversation stopper.
@lizazoon No, matter is not synonymous with energy. You are mistaken. I find it odd that you are claiming that "nothing can exist apart from space time and matter, god included". Are you then claiming that the universe has always existed? This flies right in the face of contemporary cosmology. It is impossible for the universe to have always existed for many different reasons. And why can something (like God) not exist outside of the universe? Please backup this claim.
@Victoruto I do not claim that the universe has always existed. Where did I say that !! Something must have existed from all eternity. I just refuse to put the name of a supernatural being on it. Because that is NO answer. It`s just a conversation stopper.
@lizazoon So you basically o not want to think about the questions that your worldview cannot answer. And if the universe has not always existed (which you concede) then what existed causally prior is, by definition, supernatural; i.e, beyond nature. And how can an impersonal agent, which by its nature would have to be immaterial, eternal, and extremely powerful, cause anything to come into being?
@Victoruto -- No, matter is not synonymous with energy
-E=mc²"-- Why do you always come back with the same nonsense. I never said the universe always existed. I state my position for the last time. Something must have existed from all eternity. I refuse to put the name of a supernatural being on that. Period
@Victoruto No scientist ever said that--- that the universe came into being uncaused out of nothing--- That`s your fantasy at work. Only creationist say that god created the whole universe in 6 days--OUT OF NOTHING--
So if you can't get something from nothing who created this mythical GOD? who really cares who made us. Even if it were an alien or a god they left. To all you bible thumbpers where was the first war according to your bible? in heaven right? so if they fight in heaven that supposed to be so perfect why wouldn't we fight here. If I break the speed limit should I be thrown to prison among the murderers, rapist, and robbers. unrepented sinners share the same hell as hitler and many others how lovin
TIRED OF THEESE MORONS! NOONE HAVE SUGGESTED THAT NOTHING MADE SOMETHING....THATS NOT WHAT THE BIG BANG THEORY SAYS.... First you have to ask yourself.. is there such a thing as nothing`?
@MrBlamemeforit YEAHHH!!! USE CAPS-LOCK TO EMPHASIZE A GRAMATICALLY BROKEN POINT...extra points for calling SOMEONE ELSE a moron though, when you've expressed yourself like a retard lmao @ "noone have suggested that nothing made something" smh
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it's easy to judge harshly from the comfort of your office chair in the privacy of your own home. Humility is a character trait that is needed for all walks of life and beliefs. Don't spew hateful and needless venom in a place where you couldn't offer the person you're insulting the ability to talk to you face to face. Show some tact and class and offer construction.
I'm yelling at the TV. Is the video going to talk back?
Mine is a reaction to an endless tide of broken thought processes. Frustration born from countless people making the same careless and faulty inferences time and time again.
What I said was constructive, it also just happened to contain all the stress and aggravation that accompanies witnessing the same trivially avoided mistakes ad-nauseam.
If you can find flaw with what I said, then please, correct me.
I just watched parts 1-10, and I was very disappointed in both sides. Shermer's arguments, on OT Law can be answered easily using the bible, and a simple explanation on the old and new covenant. His argument on material and immaterial (god and universe) can be answered with God's transcendence. Jacoby just seemed unprepared overall, very disappointing.There is not enough room for me to address everything, but if you have a specific argument, comment on my profile, as long as its intelligent.
I wonder what the creationists' reaction will be when we find - and there is no reason to expect we won't - life on other planets. My guess is that it will be something pseudo scientific. Or they will re-interpret some obscure verse in the bible and say: it was mentioned in the bible, we just overlooked it.
I'm still praying (to Zeus) every day for those little rovers to find traces of life on Mars. It would be hilarious.
Shermer clearly wins this debate hands down. Jacobys arguments my sound intelligent but deep down its so fucking stupid! Jacoby is a complete moron. In debates between atheist and theist, the Atheist ALWAYS winALWAYS!!! Why? Because of evidence, logic. and common sense. Something that theists DONT have.
Jacoby comes off the better speaker in this debate but his arguments really aren't that good. The technical problems with his arguments were never addressed in this debate. He is wrong to imply the kind of success to these arguments that he does, as most professional philosophers could verify. This is where Shermer's 'confirmation bias' / 'humility' points hit home. His CS Lewis point is deeply misguided. See, 'CS Lewis and the search for rational religion' by John Beversluis.
Just because we live in this universe that doesn't mean that it is "fine tuned" or "created". Any infinite number of universes freakishly different from our own likely came into existence, but we just happen to live in THIS one.
The fact that these fellows call themselves the "Brights" is not only egotistical, but misrepresenting. The fathers of "New Atheism" are not philosophers and this is clearly seen in their work. Their arguments have been shredded to bits over and over and their worldview has not even been thought out carefully. They are pop-culture icons who reveal their internal consistencies at every turn in their life.
No, sorry. There were little regional and city gods and Yahweh was just one of them. Then he started telling his people to only worship him. Wilhelm Schmidt, whom your idea of God's origin comes from, is only believed by the remotest fringe creationists - not reputable scholars.
This is an assertion, without any evidence. The majority of OT scholars also believe the contrary. It is up to you to prove that Judaism was once polytheistic.
Uh ... you don't seem to know anything about this subject, which makes this a pretty useless line of discussion. If it helps: The Israelites didn't spontaneously become pagan when they worshiped the golden calf, they reverted back to their old pagan ways until Moses came down.
Uh ... you don't seem to notice the difference between an assertion and an argument. Nothing you have said has yet to be substantiated.
Now, it is true that Israelites, throughout the years at various times, have committed idolatry and worshiped false gods, but that is not the topic of discussion. You claimed that Judaism originated out of a "polytheistic religious system". I'm still waiting for the evidence.
That's a great question, however I don't think anyone can truly answer it. But I can say this: If God exists necessarily and is a self-sufficient eternal Being then I don't think that there is a "why" for his existence. If there was then there would be a reason outside God as to why He exists. This would, therefore, place something greater and external to God, but we know that nothing is greater than God; He is the absolute.
that is the worst non-answer ever. the question you need to ask yourself is why god created evil. when you see why god created evil, you will see that man created god, and not the other way around.
but your answer is still poor. why does god's purpose neccessitate a reason outside god? why can't he be doing what he's doing for his own reasons? you also say we know nothing is greater than god. how do we know this?
your answer is basically that god has no purpose, because that purpose would be outside god. nothing is greater than god, therefore, he has no purpose.
i say, he was invented by man, for man's purpose. ask yourself why god created evil, and you'll see what i mean.
I said that God's existence does NOT necessitate a reason outside Himself. He is His own reason, so in that sense I agree. God is the greatest conceivable being because He has infinite characteristics (omniscience, omnipotence, love, justice). If you could imagine a greater being, then THAT being would be God.
I believe that we, as humans, are not able to know such answers as to why God exists. It's like asking why the number 6 exists.
And I must mention one other thing. Why do you use the word evil, when you deny the very existence of objective moral values? How can there be evil an a matter-in-motion world where morality is subject to social preference? You said "...an evolution of principles that develop with the changing circumstances." But this is not evil. There very affirmation of the concept of evil undermines your own presuppositions about the world.
there can be an evil, because it says so in your bible. there can be an evil because people do things that are considered generally as evil. evil is anything you want it to be. i can talk about pink unicorns, i can understand the concept of one horned horses, coloured pink. can you understand the concept of pink unicorns? how can you talk about pink unicorns when you deny their very existence?
to claim the concept of evil is only understandable through God is stupifying.
This is a flawed argument. God didn't create evil, "what fellowship can light have with darkness." The more affirming connotation for evil is the absence of good (or "of God"). You have to distinguish between the nature of God vs. the duality of man. God created man with the intention of perfection. But like anyone who's been in a relationship, you can't love something that is forced to love you, it must choose to. Evil exists because man chose it over God.
Then he created the 'capacity' for evil and didn't place sufficient hedges to weigh against it.
He's either responsible for creation, the game, the system, or he is not. Putting pits full of vipers in the playground and letting a moral infant do cartwheels at noon day does not absolve the architect of anything.
Depending on what dogma you pick, that same architect punishes the very same souls he sought to enrich for ETERNITY for a finite crime.
Could not agree more Kreadus - the definition of free will under religion is congruent with the free will of domesticated animals, slaves, and people under totalitarian regime; "you can choose A over B....but A will get you fucked for eternity.....but do what you like...free will"
It's a logical impossibility for God to not create evil because an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being by definition creates and controls everything. Free will is an impossibility if: A. we must follow his rules or else B. he already knows what we are going to do in advance C. we are designed, by him, towards certain proclivities
Free will is an impossibility under scrutiny, punishment, and surveillance
There is an analogy I like to use for something like this. Think of God as heat. Heat is everywhere. There is no such things as cold, it's just the absence of heat. The less heat you have, the more "cold" it seems. All you are doing is taking away heat. You aren't putting in cold. And it's man's decision to either add or take away heat. So evil isn't really a creation, but a direction.
"If you feel distanced from God, guess who moved?" I don't know who said that, but I like it.
1. Heat is universally accepted by mankind everywhere and has been for centuries
2. Heat and cold are demonstrable factors and are measurable...in fact with universal units of measurement!
3. You could make the same exact analogy and replace the word 'God' with any other mythical creature or 'god' (one of 10,000 that you don't believe in) and it would be the same ephemeral argument
Yes, you could replace God with a mythical creature like a pink unicorn, but thats not the subject of what we're talking about.
You want to say "if god exist, then he's all of these evil things" and that's your opinion, which you are entiltled to. But, if you expect someone to defend the moral truths that theists believe, you shouldn't just avoid by saying "well, god doesn't exist, therefore your analogy is...whatever".
While I haven't taken courses yet to present my beliefs in a shaper argument with a more sophisticated language, I do accept what the bible says as absolute truth for my own reasons, and if I present a less than par analogy, I think you'd be missing the point im trying to put across (which is about the moral basis) by simply dissmissing it.
As for the BR quote, I don't think He would be offended by people who doubt. I do, however, believe he would be offended by those who deny him.
1. You seem like a sweet person so I'm not going to be mean
2. Read 1Kings - God does not like the 'nonbelievers'....so I disagree; he is a jealous god after all...although, if he is the one true god and is omnipotent...of whom is he jealous?
3. If you need to take a course to present your beliefs what does that say about your beliefs?
4. What are your 'own reason' for accepting the bible?
5. On the contrary - you missed my point: you cannot make an assertion where your subject is not unique
In regards to (2), it's important to know why a person is jealous. I would be jealous if my wife was seeing another man because I love her and wouldn't want to lose her.
While no being compares to or challenges God, we make idols out to be gods; and we worship these idols in place of the one true God. His jealousy arises out of love for His children and knowing what's best for them. He desires to be the only One worshiped by His children just as I desire to be the only one loved by my wife.
"god" is not a person; if your wife were seeing another man that would be the result of other men existing....there are supposedly no other gods ; therefore of whom is he jealous? additionally, he could end the speculation with other gods/religions but has not done so..your last last three sentences are typical of the meaningless drivel that all you credulous religious types spill out every time you're confronted with critical thinking and questions - please try again
To say that God is not a person is to beg the question. Obviously, Christians do believe God to be personal. And again to call my last three sentences meaningless is more autobiographical then anything else. It is meaningless to call it meaningless without reasons why. The reason I would be jealous is due to my wife's adultery. Idolatry is spiritual adultery, thus such a feeling is fitly called jealousy. Anthropomorphism is essential in language.
Will it become clear how something can come from nothing? Will it become clear as to how we can account for objective moral values, and the laws of logic? Will it become clear how the inductive principal can be justified, and how we can find unity in a matter-in-motion world? Will it become clear how we can trust our cognitive faculties at all given the fact that there is no assurance that we are functioning properly?
i say, boo hoo. who cares what you want, or what god wants. what about what i want? when does that count for something? and why does what you want outweigh what i want? if you're jealous, you're emotionally immature and unwilling to rationally accept the situation for what it is, so you project your feelings onto someone else. when you sart feeling jealous, look to yourself first, before you succumb to a vain emotion such as jealousy. thou shalt not covet, it's a commandment for cryin' out...
"what about what i want? when does that count for something?"
This is the great difference between Christ and the world. The former is the exemplar of selflessness and the latter is of selfishness. He demonstrated His character of self-sacrifice by literally sacrificing Himself for a fallen world. He didn't give a little to the world; He gave everything.
In regards to jealousy, your own feelings will one day (although I'm sure they already have) refute your argument.
who cares what he did to himself? why should i care or be told to care or be expected to care about what he wants or what you want? the definition of selfishness is placing ones own needs above another's. by this definition, god is as selfish as the rest of us. isn't no other gods a comandment?
anyway, which part of my "argument" in regards to jealousy will my feelings refute one day? or are you just making a general, unsupported claim? that would be surprising.
The Christian cares what Christ did. That should be quite obvious. God has no needs, so by your definition He is not at all selfish. Thanks for pushing my point.
Jealousy is a natural, and sometimes justified, human reaction. If you did not feel jealous if a girlfriend or wife of yours was cheating on you, then I would question your love for her.
The Christian cares what Christ did.- again i ask you, so what? what does a christian caring what christ did have to do with my life and my beliefs?
god has needs. many christians will argue with you on that one.
as for jealousy...you are confusing love with ownership and possession. once you realize she is free, her own person, to do with her life as SHE chooses, there is no need for immature emotions like jealousy. if she's cheating, exactly what are you jealous of? hmmm....
You asked me who cares what Christ did, so I answered.
No theologian I have ever read has ever argued that God has needs. He is self-sufficient, therefore needs nothing.
Is this the way you view marriage?—that your wife may choose to cheat if she wishes, and you will feel no jealousy. The lack of jealousy would reveal the lack of love.
God desires to be the only One worshiped for our good and He angers when this is not the case. This is fitly called jealousy.
well, i wasn't asking "who cares" literally. i was saying why should anyone else care what jesus did? i don't believe those stories, so who cares?
well, god certainly asks for a lot of stuff for someone who is "self-sufficient".
you can keep saying lack of jealousy reveals lack of love, but i'm saying the two are unrelated. love is a happy, affirming emotion, and jealousy is the pathetic, self-pitying cries of a teenage girl.
oh, so now god has desires, not needs? he's a cry baby.
Well, from the looks of it, and being that you dedicate much of your time to grinding an axe with Christianity, I would say that you obviously care a great deal. People who have no opinion on the subject are the ones who do not care.
I hope you are not suggesting that a need is synonymous with a desire. The reason God desires certain things is for our own good. This should be clear by now.
@hpholland I always find it more than strange when one attributes the acts of wicked men to God. These Muslims are not obeying God; they are disobeying Him. And it is evil men that torture babies, not God. It would be just as absurd for you to beat a man to a bloody pulp while blaming God that you are doing it.
If you want to see the character of God, look at the Cross. There He suffered and died for us so that we may live in eternal joy, free from the effects of sin and sinners.
@Victoruto American Indians (All 3 Americas) were genocide due to the belief of a christian god. Those that survived were forced to worship god or die. Jesus said in order to have eternal life one must drink his blood & eat his body. Although it doesn't happen now the act is cannibalistic. ALL GODS are really man made, n turn out to be more dangerous than beneficial. If I give my son to strangers to kill, would you really trust me? If I betrayed my son what would I do to you?
@Victoruto A fallen world he created. ur bible speaks of many gods, although christians will tell you there's only one. " I the Lord am a jealous God" If my wife lust after Denzel Washington I have no fear cause chances of her meeting him are almost none. If my wife lust after Carlos next door I should be concerned. So if he's jealous is cause there are many gods. If a woman is getting beaten by her husband ur god will watch him kill her, even if she prays relentlessly, how loving.
@Victoruto Doesn't ur bible say god created all. Isn't ur bible the one that says god offered satan job? If my son becomes president of the U.S I would like to say that I had a small influence of his greatness. If he becomes public enemy #1 I should also shoulder some responsibility. How is it that everything good comes from god n all evil is my fault. 1 more thing, do you trust me? w/out seeing me, hearing my voice, or getting to know me? Y should one trust an unseen, unheard creature? No me
@weedsomoka The Bible, in reference to Satan, says "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." (Ez 28:15).
Everyone has the free choice to do as they please, whether good or evil. There have been many people in this world you have been raised very well, yet have still gone on to live immoral lives. If a class of 100 math students, if 99 students get As and1 gets and F, do you blame the teacher?
5 (cont) and your subject is not unique...you could make the exact same claim for every God or mythological creature ever in existence - the invisible and the non-existent have a lot in common don't they?
6. Not evil? an opinion? since when are genocide and human sacrifice not evil?
7. What moral truths? - what am I avoiding?
8. What moral basis? - your analogy had nothing to do with morality; P.S. morality does not come from religion and I am a moral person without mythology Take care
yes, but god put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden of evil. how can there be knowledge of something that doesn't exist? furthermore, the choice adam made was not a fre choice, because he did not have the requisite knowledge of good or evil, until he tasted the fruit. if you read genesis carefully, you will see that god created evil, and then punished adam and eve beyond his first promise of death. this shows again that adam did not have all the facts before his choice.
he also banished them from the garden lest they eat from the tree of life. therefore, life is not a gift that man rejected from god, rather it is an entity that exists inside a tree in the garden of eden that god is forcefully keeping us from. and you call this our decision? you claim that man 'created' evil, when you know that god is the creator of everything? you cannot give him the credit for everything without giving him the blame for everything.
Alright, so anything that comes into being has to be created... in that case, what created God? And if God came from nothing, why couldn't the Universe just as well be the thing that came from nothing at the beginning of time as we know it? Why do people need to bring in a fairy tale that really fills no function?
God did not come into being; He is self-existent and eternal.
Out of nothing, nothing comes. It is logically absurd to think otherwise. The universe had a beginning, and that beginning must have been caused by something other than itself.
To compare the Biblical God with that of Zeus is nothing short of ignorance. Not even the skeptic scholar (at least respectable one) would even go so far.
Zeus is not a perfect, sovereign, triune, absolute, immutable, moral being as is the God of Christianity.
"Painted as Zeus" means that his image in artwork and stained-glass windows is that of Zeus, not his power-level or morality or triune-ness. Although Yahweh initially was a vengeful Hebrew storm god, I think.
When I compare your Christian god's characteristics to things from fairy tales, I'm talking about the fact that these beings have been manufactured in our cultural imagination and don't actually exist out there somewhere waiting to cause us harm if we supplicate before them.
Ah, "painted" literally. Well, that's up to the artist to paint God as He sees fit.
No Yahweh was not originally a "vengeful Hebrew storm god". The Hebrews had One God, not a plurality of gods.
So if something from a fairytale compares to Christianity, then Christianity is not true? How does that follow? If a fairytale has a story about ducks, should we then conclude that ducks aren't real?
yahweh, as i understand existed in a polythestic state, with others such as baal. only when certain jews, yahwehists if you will, decided to go monotheistic, did he become one god. christians must remember that their entire religion is founded on the bedrock of judaism. thus you must accept the crazy old testament, and before, background prior to accepting the NT.
All peoples came out of a polytheistic religious system, even the Jewish peoples. Their history didn't begin when they began ignoring or denying all of the other gods. The Christian god's development is detailed in Karen Armstrong's "A History of God."
And the characteristics I'm talking about that link the Bible with fairy tales don't include ducks and other real things, but do include acts of magic and talking animals and plants.
You can beg the question all you want, but it doesn't help your case. You are assuming what you should be proving. There have been many so-called scholars who have had many different theories about the rise of Judaism, however, your theory is in the minority.
Calling them "so-called" doesn't change the fact that the majority of biblical scholars rely on actual historical evidence, not unfounded theological presuppositions. People don't like to hear the story past their childhood understanding of the story of God, it seems. Just another story.
Yes, the majority of scholars rely on evidence, and most of them agree that the evidence does not point to a polytheistic Jewish origin.
However, all scholars have unfounded presuppositions—whether theological or not. You do, so do I, so does scholar X. These presuppositions will dictate one's take on reality and guide the interpretation of evidence.
TLDL. the longest intro to the cosmological version of the argument from incredulity ever. "I don't know how/can't imagine it, therefore it didn't happen!"
He knows there was actually no BANG when the universe was created because there was no elements created yet therefore its impossible for a sound to be made. If you still don't understand read this, when the universe was made electrons and protons were moving to fast to make bonds that means no elements were made. oxygen,carbon,helium,etc didn't exist right away so sound couldn't travel threw them. Thus when the universe started there was no noise.
Does God created also the dinasours? Come on. There are proof that dinasours exists. Oh probably God did a mistake and he says oh. Let me reinvent something else.
It really bugs me when theologians, theists, creationists, ID-advocates uses gaps in human understanding and knowledge to make arguments. It is as if there biblical scriptures made predictions about the big-bang, Evolution and other modern scientific endeavors in its 2000 years. Every time, a scientific discovery that explains previously mysterious questions, the theists act as if they had known it all along.
Remember, theists of the middle ages believed in a flat-earth, a geocentric solar system. I don't mind theists who debate on philosophical stand points, but it gets to my nerves when they try to verify and explain God using science. If you want your religion to be taken seriously, make a "specific" prediction about how matter behaves or how the universe operates instead of inserting ur God in the gaps of the contemporary science knowledge.
Astonishingly enough, we are allowing them to make these arguments. The fact remains, how ever you explain the singularity problem in the big bang, theists are gonna slide in and make that ever regressive question of the who, the how and the why that new theory works. In conclusion, scientists ask the questions and then find the answers while theists always ask questions and adapt their positions to the answers of the scientists.
This type of ignorance, loop-holes of questions and never making an effort to find the answers does not help the cause of our civilization. By hindering rational thought and inserting God into every equation we don't fully understand, religion may well poison everything and be detrimental to the future of the human race.
Isaiah 40:22: It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in...
Abdulmelik2007:Bible?Is a Jewish bias scripture, which the old testament carries the first book of the torah,the(tanak)Religion is a natural human phenomena which evolved in mankind it doesnt explain our existence in any logical way,If anyone out there believes God created Earth in 7 days,they possess a brain of a 7 year old who believes in FAIRY TALES,it means you believe trees magically appeared!!Or did God had the seeds he scattered in the Garden of Eden?and created Caucasian Adam and Eve!!
It has been quite a while since i made this post. I should thank you for the reply nonetheless. I hope u have not mistaken me for a theist. I have no respect for the scriptures whatsoever, i think it is laughable people take them seriously. It would be a good source of entertainment but a huge waste of time. It would almost be impossible to find unedited versions of the scriptures. Hence, i concern myself with the philosophical aspect of God. In my previous posts i tried to tell how much
i despise the god of the gaps argument especially when the religious loons have got it miserably wrong over the past millennium.
I would call myself an atheist rather than an adeist( i wonder if there is any such name ) and i am agnostic towards deism( yet vastly interested in it). Anyways, the addition of a God( additional consciousness) is of no help since it begs the question of how that god came into being.
Even if you could ever prove that God does exist or did exist in the past it still wouldn't change the fact that there isn't a single good thing that can be said about him. Same goes jesus is he ever existed or was just another lie in this world made up completely of lies.
science isn't the opposite of religion. both religious people can athiest can use science as a means to appreciate nature. but it does bring us evidences, not proofs, about both side of the argument, and our job is really to access the evidence and decide which theory explains our being better. personally i take christianity =) and i really hope atheists can try to portrait a friendlier image, so are we as christians, its not about winning the argument, but presenting the evidence, and listening
Bible is the biggest lie ever presented to mankind!It is not a Western religion but Eastern derived straight from Judaism,was never meant to reach an international audience but crusaders made it possible to bring that into Europe during the Roman Empire!!Today as America,Australia,New Zealand,Canada and many more Indo European speaking colonised territories dominates the World so as the IDEA,Have you ever wondered why the bible do not mention Eskimos,Alborigines or Chinese people?
You can always argue about this thing... but it has the same ending...every single time...religion wins. That´s because they can always make up some quick mysterious answers like: "Only God knows..." and that is why they can always escape from a cross-examination made by science...
cosmology and the enormous universe and us on this tiny insignificant planet is proof of god.
creation in the bible was a monotheistic re-hash of the Marduk vs. the sea serpent Tiamat.
it starts off with from once upon high, not 'in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth... darkness was over the surface of the deep. This was the cosmic ocean of most religions. Marduk killed Tiamat and opened her shell which created the land above and under the water - like Yahweh creating sky/ground
kelbykross1 2 days ago
Atheists will never know true happiness, and we all agree that mans ultimate goal is happiness....
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JezusSlave 4 weeks ago
This is hilarious, this guy is proving the Bible in his very opening statement! Here's why.....This guy is right, the telescope has proven there are 70 sextillion stars (and counting) and we no longer believe there are between 5-7000. He proves the Bible. God told Abraham that his seed would be more than the sand on the beaches, and more than the stars if he could count them (a similarity). Well man believed there were only 5-7000, but Abraham was told they were uncountable. God is amazing!
shadapple 2 months ago
Einstien was right when he "fudged his equations" It just took another 70 years for humans to figure that out.
mzyzer19 3 months ago
If you want evidence that God exists, or are interested in 9/11 search Jonathan Cahn 1 - Harbinger the Warning, on youtube here.
IwillhonorGod 4 months ago
@ChuckNorrisKratosLOL ok whats ur evidence thats hes not? he could just as well be? if everything has been created then there has 2 be something or someone who created everything!
northteen12 4 months ago
These debates would be so much shorter if believers just accepted that they believe because they believe, and it's personal, and requires faith. Rather than trying to push their personal beliefs into the gaps between genuine knowledge, and attempting to convince others that any gap - for as long as it is a gap - can accommodate their fear of NOT KNOWING. Read: God.
UnitedKingdomify 6 months ago
@UnitedKingdomify Excellent comment.
MrShysterme 5 months ago
It's so weak how these apologists start off so well, but eventually they grind it on down to pushing a god into the explanation. It all comes down to the absurd foundations of their entire position, and it's just so... weak.
How on earth do they get to god, and not just have their brains implode with the sheer weight of stupidity? How can they generate these elaborate statements, using what they KNOW to be true in science, to justify something they need FAITH to BELIEVE at all?
Baffles me. >.<
UnitedKingdomify 6 months ago
@UnitedKingdomify Excellent comment. Yes, I believe a question in these debates referencing what you mentioned is: "Now what exact logical method are you using to infer that which is only knowable by faith using information from the repeatedly observable natural world?"
MrShysterme 5 months ago
@UnitedKingdomify an intelligent cause of the universe, rationality, consciousness, morality and YOU....how is any of this irrational? With all that we know of DNA and information, do you REALLY think it all came about by chance, from NOTHING? really? I believe in a highly intelligent being who gave us life. All the evidence points to this. Atheism , as it turns out, is the belief in "magic". It's as silly as believing a tornado hurling through a junkyard can produce a Boeing 767 :)
dwheel39 1 month ago
@dwheel39 Wow. You "believe". Like I give a rats ass. People believe ridiculous things on insufficient evidence. Atheism doesn't make any claims. It is the rejection of the claims of theists. Therefore it is the only rational position.
Frankly, you're an idiot.
You'll stop being an idiot the moment you stop saying "Well I believe in.." like it matters or anyone cares. You'll stop being an idiot when you can honestly say "I don't know" to the questions we as a species don't have answers for yet.
UnitedKingdomify 1 month ago
@UnitedKingdomify wouldn't all of that apply to YOUR BELIEFS as well.Or maybe you WERE around 13 billion years ago and saw how the universe came to be. If not, then your non-theistic explanations for the origin of universe are simply "beliefs" too my friend :) But what comports most with reality? What best explains EVERYTHING? How can atheism possibly be considered "rational" when it undermines the concept of rationality itself? how do you get laws of logic from inorganic matter?
dwheel39 1 month ago
@UnitedKingdomify . . . also think about this: every time you argue (va YouTube comments or otherwise) you are validating the existence of God. You use REASON to argue for TRUTH and make MORAL judgments about theism, yet these concepts make NO sense without God. And none of those can exist in a purely material world that atheism has painted for us. YET, they DO exist! you believe this too or you wouldn't take the time to call me an "idiot" :)
dwheel39 1 month ago
@dwheel39 God claims have no foundation beyond their origins in archaic texts and scripture stemming from the iron age and beyond. I have no idea which god - of the many mankind has posited - you're even claiming exists.
Pull your head out of your behind. God doesn't explain anything. Saying you believe it and asking me to on insufficient evidence is absurd. You don't know any more than I do about the origins of the universe. But you feel obligated to make claims. I don't.
I'm done here dullard.
UnitedKingdomify 1 month ago
@UnitedKingdomify insufficient evidence??? from the microscopic world of the cell which is set up like a factory to replicate and produce according to preset instructions, to the macro world of the cosmos and all the fine tuning parameters that give you and i a nice place to live, and including your conscious self that reflects on meaning and purpose and asks "why" and "how"...you REALLY don't think there's more to life than what materialists say?
dwheel39 1 month ago
And what did the universe bang into? Nothing?
Stuckherewithyou 6 months ago
And this wackjob is a doctor?
he sound like Copra Chopra, and his woo woo
JerezJulio 7 months ago 2
And I thought the Cosmology Argument was thoroughly refuted and thoroughly dead.
Seems some people prefer to ignore that and fish for people who have not heard about it.
StopSpamming1 1 year ago
Watch this video "LAWRENCE KRAUSS - A UNIVERSE FROM NOTHING"
BabySatch1 1 year ago 5
A WLC clone--someone who is contemptuous of his audience that he is willing to tell them the initial inflation was an explosion--a chemical reaction requiring oxygen! Or maybe he is so stupid he believes what he says.
HConstantine 1 year ago
I do not know if there is a god. I personally don't have the kind of evidence that I would need to believe in something like that. I highly doubt that a god or gods exist. From my studies of the three world religions, I can definitely say that the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, does not exist. no question about that for me.
Ricardius1710 1 year ago
Thinking about where the universe came from makes my brain hurt! You scientists might have all your statistics and supporting evidence, but textbooks are boring.
I think I'll just go with....uh.....let's see here... a magical man in the sky did it! Yeah that must be it! I'll call this magical man "GOD".
..and thus Religion was born!
xenomann442 1 year ago 11
@xenomann442 Thinking about where the universe came from makes my brain hurt! Scientists have NO evidence for causality and bringing religion into it would make me an idiot. I think I'll just stick my thumb in my butthole and spin on it until science makes up a good enough theory and until then try to make people who believe in God feel stupid.
and thus atheism is born!
shernajwine 1 year ago
@xenomann442
Since you do not believe in a creator, by logical necessity, you are saying that the universe created itself.
That's really smart!
Prologicful 10 months ago
@Prologicful oops,,,if the universe created itself you would, by necessity, believe in a creator...that's NOT really smart...
4eskueteam 7 months ago
@xenomann442 Thinking about where the universe came from makes MY brain hurt too! You scientists, theologians, and philosophers have all your evidence from design and rational arguments regarding GOD, BUT, this implies the existence of objective morality which places impositions on my life and i want to be free to do as i please.
I think i'll just go with ...uh...let's see here...i'll just say that EVERYTHING came from NOTHING...as if by MAGIC...yeah!
and thus ATHEISM was born! :)
dwheel39 1 month ago
This is the eternal fallacy of theists. We don't know where the big bang came from or how it got created. Therefore (drum-roll) it's obviously god. Namely their brand of god. Not the Catholic god. Or the Mormon god. Nope! Their god.
Throw in as much science as you can fathom. You're still left with the burden of proof. It's silly, puerile and for such an intelligent person, it's just downright embarrassing.
Domzdream 1 year ago
"It makes sense." I ... ehm... no. Sorry. His and my definition of "sense" are obviously too different for me to appreciate him.
GreyLabyrinthine 1 year ago
I dont say and cannot say that there is no god. I simply dont know and neither do you? Your belief however lays you open to all sorts of in my opinion barmy nonsense that until we die we cannot verify. If my question is silly then so is the idea of a heavenly father answering our prayors. He's really not doing a good job is he? But then again I'm rational and ask questions and by your definition therefore silly? Dream on!!!!!
bigguitar22 1 year ago
Something from nothing is a circular argument. How did a god come into being?
bigguitar22 1 year ago
@bigguitar22 The fact that something came from nothing, is supernatural. No matter how much science tries to rationalize it, it's still something of a supernatural occurrence, and it sounds like it comes out of Genesis.
God is the first cause of everything. He is the Alpha, and the Omega.
Transformers217 1 year ago
@Transformers217
Lets assume for a second that you're right. Then who created god? This doesn't really get us anywhere does it? Maybe the universe was created by a god - I dont know and neither do you. But I will hazard a guess the creator if one exists was not the stone age infantile tyrant referred to in the bible? Once again where is your evidence? How is it you believe a universe cannot come into existence spontaneously but a god can?
bigguitar22 1 year ago
@bigguitar22 That's such a silly question. It's actually pretty sad.
Nobody created God. He is the alpha and the omega, the beginning, and the end. God is the creator of all things, and the source to all life. So nothing created God. God created everything.
The evidence of God is Jesus Christ, and the eye witness testimony of the New Testament. To claim that the Universe was created spontaneously, takes a lot of faith, since it also begs the question.
Transformers217 1 year ago
@Transformers217 You say my question was silly. Is it as silly as some of the foolish propositions espoused by believers? God had to come from somewhere didn't he - or has he always been there - now that does sound a bit silly doesn't it? Again, what evidence do you have for god's existence - spurious accounts of the message he sent us through Christ - who may or may not have existed and may or may not have been god's son. Why would an omnipotent god need children - its all silly - very silly!
bigguitar22 1 year ago
@bigguitar22 Again, that's a silly question, and it makes no sense. God didn't come from anywhere, since he was already there. The Universe was created, God is not created.
God is the alpha, and the omega.
Transformers217 1 year ago
@bigguitar22 The evidence for God's existence is in the Bible, and Jesus Christ. Jesus existed, and he was not only the son of God, but God in the flesh. He was the image of God.
Transformers217 1 year ago
@Transformers217 How can you know this? Answer is it is your belief and that's different from knowing something. Also, because the bible says so means nothing. The bible advocates slavery and murder - do you believe that also or like many religious people do you factor out the bits you dont like? Think for yourself for a change. The bible is not evidence of anything other than men wrote it?
bigguitar22 1 year ago
@bigguitar22 No, what the Bible says means everything. I believe that the Bible is divinely inspired, and that's been verified through the scriptures that I've read and put to the test. And the New Testament has been shown to be an historical document. And since Jesus existed, that means the only knowledge that we have of his life is in the New Testament.
The Bible doesn't advocate slavery, or murder. Especially not in the New Testament, which is the law of peace.
Transformers217 1 year ago
@Transformers217 You do know the meaning of slavery after all! You are a slave to the bible. How can you put scriptures to the test? Can you do miracles perhaps? Can you talk directly to god and more importantly does he answer back? What is the objective test of scripture? You say you know god but you aren't sure of the gender? Would an omnipotent god have a gender - or a son for that matter? Our chats have been fun but there is no purpose to further discussion until you free yourself. Goodbye!
bigguitar22 1 year ago
@bigguitar22 I put scriptures to the test by looking at the meanings behind them, what the original language actually meant during it's time, and different Bible studies.
If a pastor, theologian, or anybody is preaching or talking about what is written within the Bible, I put to the test by reading what is being preach and dissecting it.
Transformers217 1 year ago
@bigguitar22 By the son of God, it means the image. At least that's one interpretation, but it fits with what is meant in the original Greek language. Jesus was the image of God. So when you're looking at him, you're looking at God.
And God has no gender, since he is spirit.
Transformers217 1 year ago
@Transformers217 Yes, they say the same thing about the koran. "Islam is peace"....ya what a load of shit. Pretty obvious from an outside view, just like christianity is from my outside view.
MRfullon 1 year ago
@MRfullon But during the first 300 years of Christianity, it was a peaceful religion, before it was institutionalized.
Transformers217 1 year ago
@bigguitar22 So because of the Bible, I know God exists, and who he (or she)is.
Transformers217 1 year ago
If god exists, why hiding. He went through so much trouble, 2.000 years ago to save us from the hell--- he created--. Yet, it seems too much, to give every generation a little unmistakable sign of his existence.
lizazoon 1 year ago
It`s not easy for theists to explain how god created the whole universe(s) OUT OF NOTHING>
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon Of course. How could one explain such an incredible event? But why is such an explanation necessary?
And is it any easier for the atheist to explain how the universe came into being uncaused out of nothing? A least the theist has God to begin with.
Victoruto 1 year ago
@Victoruto Something as always existed. It is not necessary, nor does it give any advantage, to invoke a supernatural being.. All it does is cut- off any further queston or seraching for the truth.
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon If it is not God that has always existed, then what is the "something has always existed"? If it is not the universe, which, according to modern science came into being, then it is, by definition, a supernatural being that has existed causally prior to the universe. It seems to me that the supernatural is necessary. What's your take?
Victoruto 1 year ago
@Victoruto Energy is a good candidate, since it cannot be created nor destroyed. Saying it`s god, solves nothing. It just stops all further research, all further arguments.
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon It's actually matter that cannot be created or destroyed; energy is winding down. And only within the natural system can matter not be created or destroyed. Secondly, energy is a property of the universe, but how could energy exist apart from space, time, and mater? Thirdly, where does space, time, and matter come from? Fourthly, energy is impersonal, thus it's alleged effect (the universe as you propose) can not be causally prior to the universe, for it cannot will anything.
Victoruto 1 year ago
@Victoruto Matter is energy. Did you make any experiment with energy out of the natural system ? So on what is your claim based ?Nothing can exist apart from space time and matter, god included(if there is one). Something existing "out of space and time", is a contradictio in terminis. It is a formula invented by creationists, that means exactly NOTHING. Something must have exixted from all eternity. To say it`s" a supernatural being", doesn`t solve anything. It`s a conversation stopper.
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon No, matter is not synonymous with energy. You are mistaken. I find it odd that you are claiming that "nothing can exist apart from space time and matter, god included". Are you then claiming that the universe has always existed? This flies right in the face of contemporary cosmology. It is impossible for the universe to have always existed for many different reasons. And why can something (like God) not exist outside of the universe? Please backup this claim.
Victoruto 1 year ago
@Victoruto I do not claim that the universe has always existed. Where did I say that !! Something must have existed from all eternity. I just refuse to put the name of a supernatural being on it. Because that is NO answer. It`s just a conversation stopper.
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon So you basically o not want to think about the questions that your worldview cannot answer. And if the universe has not always existed (which you concede) then what existed causally prior is, by definition, supernatural; i.e, beyond nature. And how can an impersonal agent, which by its nature would have to be immaterial, eternal, and extremely powerful, cause anything to come into being?
Victoruto 1 year ago
@Victoruto -- No, matter is not synonymous with energy
-E=mc²"-- Why do you always come back with the same nonsense. I never said the universe always existed. I state my position for the last time. Something must have existed from all eternity. I refuse to put the name of a supernatural being on that. Period
lizazoon 1 year ago
@Victoruto No scientist ever said that--- that the universe came into being uncaused out of nothing--- That`s your fantasy at work. Only creationist say that god created the whole universe in 6 days--OUT OF NOTHING--
lizazoon 1 year ago
So if you can't get something from nothing who created this mythical GOD? who really cares who made us. Even if it were an alien or a god they left. To all you bible thumbpers where was the first war according to your bible? in heaven right? so if they fight in heaven that supposed to be so perfect why wouldn't we fight here. If I break the speed limit should I be thrown to prison among the murderers, rapist, and robbers. unrepented sinners share the same hell as hitler and many others how lovin
weedsomoka 1 year ago
If you can "debunk" Shermer and Randi in a debate, why don't you do it on your website?
Catrambi 2 years ago
TIRED OF THEESE MORONS! NOONE HAVE SUGGESTED THAT NOTHING MADE SOMETHING....THATS NOT WHAT THE BIG BANG THEORY SAYS.... First you have to ask yourself.. is there such a thing as nothing`?
MrBlamemeforit 2 years ago 2
@MrBlamemeforit YEAHHH!!! USE CAPS-LOCK TO EMPHASIZE A GRAMATICALLY BROKEN POINT...extra points for calling SOMEONE ELSE a moron though, when you've expressed yourself like a retard lmao @ "noone have suggested that nothing made something" smh
MurphGiovanni 1 year ago
alguien podria tiomarse la molestia de subtitular el debate para la gente de habla hispana
carloslsantos 2 years ago
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twarks144 2 years ago
Fuck off and die spammer, preferably from stomach cancer.
alwaysright10000 2 years ago
You sound like a briliant individual
ForsetiOfTheBoard 2 years ago
They reject Jesus who is Eternal Life. Oh you might be interested to see what fire from heaven looks like. YOUTUBE: The Physical Ashen Remains of Sodom & Gomorrah 8:23. YOUTUBE: MT SINAI REPENT TURN TO JESUS so you can LIVE!!!!!!!
Wazzup132435465768 2 years ago
Grrrr!
Stop labeling the unknown set and calling it "God" you dumbass!
Its unknown! You don't know! Say it with me! "I DO NOT KNOW" say it again! Say it a thousand times!
You don't get to assign any other properties to it than that!
Theism is so freaking arrogant!
Kreadus005 2 years ago
it's easy to judge harshly from the comfort of your office chair in the privacy of your own home. Humility is a character trait that is needed for all walks of life and beliefs. Don't spew hateful and needless venom in a place where you couldn't offer the person you're insulting the ability to talk to you face to face. Show some tact and class and offer construction.
lordzsoldier33 2 years ago
I'm yelling at the TV. Is the video going to talk back?
Mine is a reaction to an endless tide of broken thought processes. Frustration born from countless people making the same careless and faulty inferences time and time again.
What I said was constructive, it also just happened to contain all the stress and aggravation that accompanies witnessing the same trivially avoided mistakes ad-nauseam.
If you can find flaw with what I said, then please, correct me.
Kreadus005 2 years ago
I just watched parts 1-10, and I was very disappointed in both sides. Shermer's arguments, on OT Law can be answered easily using the bible, and a simple explanation on the old and new covenant. His argument on material and immaterial (god and universe) can be answered with God's transcendence. Jacoby just seemed unprepared overall, very disappointing.There is not enough room for me to address everything, but if you have a specific argument, comment on my profile, as long as its intelligent.
orangecandye 3 years ago
[can be answered with God's transcendence.]
Of course, god's transcendence - why didn't Schermer think of that?
DeusMerdaeEst 2 years ago
Ah, the old fine-tuning argument.
I wonder what the creationists' reaction will be when we find - and there is no reason to expect we won't - life on other planets. My guess is that it will be something pseudo scientific. Or they will re-interpret some obscure verse in the bible and say: it was mentioned in the bible, we just overlooked it.
I'm still praying (to Zeus) every day for those little rovers to find traces of life on Mars. It would be hilarious.
DeusMerdaeEst 3 years ago
In the scriptures it does mention other planets and life on them....
8Clutch 2 years ago
[In the scriptures it does mention other planets and life on them....]
Where exactly?
DeusMerdaeEst 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Shermer clearly wins this debate hands down. Jacobys arguments my sound intelligent but deep down its so fucking stupid! Jacoby is a complete moron. In debates between atheist and theist, the Atheist ALWAYS winALWAYS!!! Why? Because of evidence, logic. and common sense. Something that theists DONT have.
jamesblond0069 3 years ago
Jacoby comes off the better speaker in this debate but his arguments really aren't that good. The technical problems with his arguments were never addressed in this debate. He is wrong to imply the kind of success to these arguments that he does, as most professional philosophers could verify. This is where Shermer's 'confirmation bias' / 'humility' points hit home. His CS Lewis point is deeply misguided. See, 'CS Lewis and the search for rational religion' by John Beversluis.
JackEKirby 3 years ago
Just because we live in this universe that doesn't mean that it is "fine tuned" or "created". Any infinite number of universes freakishly different from our own likely came into existence, but we just happen to live in THIS one.
It is special, only to US...
leeroynaggins 3 years ago
You go, boy!
dante144 3 years ago
the fact that there is anything called apologetics let me know that religion is BS.
Go Brights!!!
a300pilotster 3 years ago
The fact that these fellows call themselves the "Brights" is not only egotistical, but misrepresenting. The fathers of "New Atheism" are not philosophers and this is clearly seen in their work. Their arguments have been shredded to bits over and over and their worldview has not even been thought out carefully. They are pop-culture icons who reveal their internal consistencies at every turn in their life.
Victoruto 3 years ago
*internal inconsistencies
Victoruto 3 years ago
Now why must He exist? I think our minds are limited and unable to grasp such large concepts.
I think what is important is that we know our own reason for existence, and that is to enjoy God and give Him glory.
Victoruto 3 years ago
No, sorry. There were little regional and city gods and Yahweh was just one of them. Then he started telling his people to only worship him. Wilhelm Schmidt, whom your idea of God's origin comes from, is only believed by the remotest fringe creationists - not reputable scholars.
bberntson 3 years ago
This is an assertion, without any evidence. The majority of OT scholars also believe the contrary. It is up to you to prove that Judaism was once polytheistic.
Victoruto 3 years ago 2
Uh ... you don't seem to know anything about this subject, which makes this a pretty useless line of discussion. If it helps: The Israelites didn't spontaneously become pagan when they worshiped the golden calf, they reverted back to their old pagan ways until Moses came down.
bberntson 3 years ago
Uh ... you don't seem to notice the difference between an assertion and an argument. Nothing you have said has yet to be substantiated.
Now, it is true that Israelites, throughout the years at various times, have committed idolatry and worshiped false gods, but that is not the topic of discussion. You claimed that Judaism originated out of a "polytheistic religious system". I'm still waiting for the evidence.
Victoruto 3 years ago 2
hi, you seem like you know what you're talking about and i was wondering if you could help me and answer this off-topic question that i have.
first off, i believe that everything has purpose. with that said, my question is this: why does God exist, what is His purpose?
r3ality357 3 years ago
That's a great question, however I don't think anyone can truly answer it. But I can say this: If God exists necessarily and is a self-sufficient eternal Being then I don't think that there is a "why" for his existence. If there was then there would be a reason outside God as to why He exists. This would, therefore, place something greater and external to God, but we know that nothing is greater than God; He is the absolute.
I think He exists because He must exists.
Victoruto 3 years ago
thank you. i really appreciated your answer and, to me, it made a lot of sense. thanks for taking the time to reply, take care.
r3ality357 3 years ago
that is the worst non-answer ever. the question you need to ask yourself is why god created evil. when you see why god created evil, you will see that man created god, and not the other way around.
watty024 3 years ago
The question was not about evil.
Victoruto 3 years ago
but your answer is still poor. why does god's purpose neccessitate a reason outside god? why can't he be doing what he's doing for his own reasons? you also say we know nothing is greater than god. how do we know this?
your answer is basically that god has no purpose, because that purpose would be outside god. nothing is greater than god, therefore, he has no purpose.
i say, he was invented by man, for man's purpose. ask yourself why god created evil, and you'll see what i mean.
watty024 3 years ago
I said that God's existence does NOT necessitate a reason outside Himself. He is His own reason, so in that sense I agree. God is the greatest conceivable being because He has infinite characteristics (omniscience, omnipotence, love, justice). If you could imagine a greater being, then THAT being would be God.
I believe that we, as humans, are not able to know such answers as to why God exists. It's like asking why the number 6 exists.
And God did not create evil, He ordained it.
Victoruto 3 years ago
And I must mention one other thing. Why do you use the word evil, when you deny the very existence of objective moral values? How can there be evil an a matter-in-motion world where morality is subject to social preference? You said "...an evolution of principles that develop with the changing circumstances." But this is not evil. There very affirmation of the concept of evil undermines your own presuppositions about the world.
Victoruto 3 years ago
there can be an evil, because it says so in your bible. there can be an evil because people do things that are considered generally as evil. evil is anything you want it to be. i can talk about pink unicorns, i can understand the concept of one horned horses, coloured pink. can you understand the concept of pink unicorns? how can you talk about pink unicorns when you deny their very existence?
to claim the concept of evil is only understandable through God is stupifying.
watty024 3 years ago
Well said.
juniorsti 2 years ago
people who have the argument of man created god have no clue on religious and christian history, that argument is so immature and childish
Paddy234 3 years ago
uh huh. ad hominem.
watty024 3 years ago
rAmen brother! I had no idea there were so many postafarians that were as outraged as me by this debate! Our beliefs are sacred!
nhhhgfghtyh 2 years ago
This is a flawed argument. God didn't create evil, "what fellowship can light have with darkness." The more affirming connotation for evil is the absence of good (or "of God"). You have to distinguish between the nature of God vs. the duality of man. God created man with the intention of perfection. But like anyone who's been in a relationship, you can't love something that is forced to love you, it must choose to. Evil exists because man chose it over God.
lordzsoldier33 2 years ago
Then he created the 'capacity' for evil and didn't place sufficient hedges to weigh against it.
He's either responsible for creation, the game, the system, or he is not. Putting pits full of vipers in the playground and letting a moral infant do cartwheels at noon day does not absolve the architect of anything.
Depending on what dogma you pick, that same architect punishes the very same souls he sought to enrich for ETERNITY for a finite crime.
Doesn't jive with me, thats for sure.
Kreadus005 2 years ago
Could not agree more Kreadus - the definition of free will under religion is congruent with the free will of domesticated animals, slaves, and people under totalitarian regime; "you can choose A over B....but A will get you fucked for eternity.....but do what you like...free will"
ForsetiOfTheBoard 2 years ago
It's a logical impossibility for God to not create evil because an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being by definition creates and controls everything. Free will is an impossibility if: A. we must follow his rules or else B. he already knows what we are going to do in advance C. we are designed, by him, towards certain proclivities
Free will is an impossibility under scrutiny, punishment, and surveillance
"God's only excuse is that he does not exist"
Marie Henri Beyle
ForsetiOfTheBoard 2 years ago
There is an analogy I like to use for something like this. Think of God as heat. Heat is everywhere. There is no such things as cold, it's just the absence of heat. The less heat you have, the more "cold" it seems. All you are doing is taking away heat. You aren't putting in cold. And it's man's decision to either add or take away heat. So evil isn't really a creation, but a direction.
"If you feel distanced from God, guess who moved?" I don't know who said that, but I like it.
041290 2 years ago
1. Heat is universally accepted by mankind everywhere and has been for centuries
2. Heat and cold are demonstrable factors and are measurable...in fact with universal units of measurement!
3. You could make the same exact analogy and replace the word 'God' with any other mythical creature or 'god' (one of 10,000 that you don't believe in) and it would be the same ephemeral argument
ForsetiOfTheBoard 2 years ago
Yes, you could replace God with a mythical creature like a pink unicorn, but thats not the subject of what we're talking about.
You want to say "if god exist, then he's all of these evil things" and that's your opinion, which you are entiltled to. But, if you expect someone to defend the moral truths that theists believe, you shouldn't just avoid by saying "well, god doesn't exist, therefore your analogy is...whatever".
041290 2 years ago
cont.
While I haven't taken courses yet to present my beliefs in a shaper argument with a more sophisticated language, I do accept what the bible says as absolute truth for my own reasons, and if I present a less than par analogy, I think you'd be missing the point im trying to put across (which is about the moral basis) by simply dissmissing it.
As for the BR quote, I don't think He would be offended by people who doubt. I do, however, believe he would be offended by those who deny him.
041290 2 years ago
1. You seem like a sweet person so I'm not going to be mean
2. Read 1Kings - God does not like the 'nonbelievers'....so I disagree; he is a jealous god after all...although, if he is the one true god and is omnipotent...of whom is he jealous?
3. If you need to take a course to present your beliefs what does that say about your beliefs?
4. What are your 'own reason' for accepting the bible?
5. On the contrary - you missed my point: you cannot make an assertion where your subject is not unique
ForsetiOfTheBoard 2 years ago
In regards to (2), it's important to know why a person is jealous. I would be jealous if my wife was seeing another man because I love her and wouldn't want to lose her.
While no being compares to or challenges God, we make idols out to be gods; and we worship these idols in place of the one true God. His jealousy arises out of love for His children and knowing what's best for them. He desires to be the only One worshiped by His children just as I desire to be the only one loved by my wife.
Victoruto 2 years ago
"god" is not a person; if your wife were seeing another man that would be the result of other men existing....there are supposedly no other gods ; therefore of whom is he jealous? additionally, he could end the speculation with other gods/religions but has not done so..your last last three sentences are typical of the meaningless drivel that all you credulous religious types spill out every time you're confronted with critical thinking and questions - please try again
ForsetiOfTheBoard 2 years ago 2
To say that God is not a person is to beg the question. Obviously, Christians do believe God to be personal. And again to call my last three sentences meaningless is more autobiographical then anything else. It is meaningless to call it meaningless without reasons why. The reason I would be jealous is due to my wife's adultery. Idolatry is spiritual adultery, thus such a feeling is fitly called jealousy. Anthropomorphism is essential in language.
Victoruto 2 years ago
@ForsetiOfTheBoard God is a jealous God. And he will get jealous, if he try to worship or idolizing other things over him.
Transformers217 1 year ago
No, dude, you got that backwards. Your god is an idol.
Stop believing in God and all shall become clear.
radbarij 2 years ago 2
Provocative.
Will it become clear how something can come from nothing? Will it become clear as to how we can account for objective moral values, and the laws of logic? Will it become clear how the inductive principal can be justified, and how we can find unity in a matter-in-motion world? Will it become clear how we can trust our cognitive faculties at all given the fact that there is no assurance that we are functioning properly?
Victoruto 2 years ago
@radbarij Except the God in the Bible isn't an idol. How can he be an idol, if he is against idolization?
Transformers217 1 year ago
i say, boo hoo. who cares what you want, or what god wants. what about what i want? when does that count for something? and why does what you want outweigh what i want? if you're jealous, you're emotionally immature and unwilling to rationally accept the situation for what it is, so you project your feelings onto someone else. when you sart feeling jealous, look to yourself first, before you succumb to a vain emotion such as jealousy. thou shalt not covet, it's a commandment for cryin' out...
watty024 2 years ago 2
"what about what i want? when does that count for something?"
This is the great difference between Christ and the world. The former is the exemplar of selflessness and the latter is of selfishness. He demonstrated His character of self-sacrifice by literally sacrificing Himself for a fallen world. He didn't give a little to the world; He gave everything.
In regards to jealousy, your own feelings will one day (although I'm sure they already have) refute your argument.
Victoruto 2 years ago
who cares what he did to himself? why should i care or be told to care or be expected to care about what he wants or what you want? the definition of selfishness is placing ones own needs above another's. by this definition, god is as selfish as the rest of us. isn't no other gods a comandment?
anyway, which part of my "argument" in regards to jealousy will my feelings refute one day? or are you just making a general, unsupported claim? that would be surprising.
watty024 2 years ago 2
The Christian cares what Christ did. That should be quite obvious. God has no needs, so by your definition He is not at all selfish. Thanks for pushing my point.
Jealousy is a natural, and sometimes justified, human reaction. If you did not feel jealous if a girlfriend or wife of yours was cheating on you, then I would question your love for her.
Victoruto 2 years ago
The Christian cares what Christ did.- again i ask you, so what? what does a christian caring what christ did have to do with my life and my beliefs?
god has needs. many christians will argue with you on that one.
as for jealousy...you are confusing love with ownership and possession. once you realize she is free, her own person, to do with her life as SHE chooses, there is no need for immature emotions like jealousy. if she's cheating, exactly what are you jealous of? hmmm....
watty024 2 years ago 2
"again i ask you, so what?"
You asked me who cares what Christ did, so I answered.
No theologian I have ever read has ever argued that God has needs. He is self-sufficient, therefore needs nothing.
Is this the way you view marriage?—that your wife may choose to cheat if she wishes, and you will feel no jealousy. The lack of jealousy would reveal the lack of love.
God desires to be the only One worshiped for our good and He angers when this is not the case. This is fitly called jealousy.
Victoruto 2 years ago
well, i wasn't asking "who cares" literally. i was saying why should anyone else care what jesus did? i don't believe those stories, so who cares?
well, god certainly asks for a lot of stuff for someone who is "self-sufficient".
you can keep saying lack of jealousy reveals lack of love, but i'm saying the two are unrelated. love is a happy, affirming emotion, and jealousy is the pathetic, self-pitying cries of a teenage girl.
oh, so now god has desires, not needs? he's a cry baby.
watty024 2 years ago 2
Well, from the looks of it, and being that you dedicate much of your time to grinding an axe with Christianity, I would say that you obviously care a great deal. People who have no opinion on the subject are the ones who do not care.
I hope you are not suggesting that a need is synonymous with a desire. The reason God desires certain things is for our own good. This should be clear by now.
Cry baby? Well your a doodoo head.
Victoruto 2 years ago
@Victoruto God desires certain things for our own good.
Like torture of babies. Oh and did you happen to see the beheading by Muslim extremists? Yeah that was a hacksaw.
'God' sounds like a lazy apathetic asshole.
hpholland 1 year ago
@hpholland I always find it more than strange when one attributes the acts of wicked men to God. These Muslims are not obeying God; they are disobeying Him. And it is evil men that torture babies, not God. It would be just as absurd for you to beat a man to a bloody pulp while blaming God that you are doing it.
If you want to see the character of God, look at the Cross. There He suffered and died for us so that we may live in eternal joy, free from the effects of sin and sinners.
Victoruto 1 year ago
@Victoruto American Indians (All 3 Americas) were genocide due to the belief of a christian god. Those that survived were forced to worship god or die. Jesus said in order to have eternal life one must drink his blood & eat his body. Although it doesn't happen now the act is cannibalistic. ALL GODS are really man made, n turn out to be more dangerous than beneficial. If I give my son to strangers to kill, would you really trust me? If I betrayed my son what would I do to you?
weedsomoka 1 year ago
@Victoruto A fallen world he created. ur bible speaks of many gods, although christians will tell you there's only one. " I the Lord am a jealous God" If my wife lust after Denzel Washington I have no fear cause chances of her meeting him are almost none. If my wife lust after Carlos next door I should be concerned. So if he's jealous is cause there are many gods. If a woman is getting beaten by her husband ur god will watch him kill her, even if she prays relentlessly, how loving.
weedsomoka 1 year ago
@weedsomoka 1)Where does the Bible say God created a fallen world? It became fallen after man sinned.
2) The gods that the Bible speaks of are false gods—the ones worshiped by the neighboring nations.
3) Idolatry is spiritual adultery, therefore jealously is fitly used as a description of God's attitude.
4) Are you seriously blaming God for the wicked actions of a man—the actions that are contrary to His law and character?
Victoruto 1 year ago
@Victoruto Doesn't ur bible say god created all. Isn't ur bible the one that says god offered satan job? If my son becomes president of the U.S I would like to say that I had a small influence of his greatness. If he becomes public enemy #1 I should also shoulder some responsibility. How is it that everything good comes from god n all evil is my fault. 1 more thing, do you trust me? w/out seeing me, hearing my voice, or getting to know me? Y should one trust an unseen, unheard creature? No me
weedsomoka 1 year ago
@weedsomoka The Bible, in reference to Satan, says "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." (Ez 28:15).
Everyone has the free choice to do as they please, whether good or evil. There have been many people in this world you have been raised very well, yet have still gone on to live immoral lives. If a class of 100 math students, if 99 students get As and1 gets and F, do you blame the teacher?
Victoruto 1 year ago
5 (cont) and your subject is not unique...you could make the exact same claim for every God or mythological creature ever in existence - the invisible and the non-existent have a lot in common don't they?
6. Not evil? an opinion? since when are genocide and human sacrifice not evil?
7. What moral truths? - what am I avoiding?
8. What moral basis? - your analogy had nothing to do with morality; P.S. morality does not come from religion and I am a moral person without mythology Take care
ForsetiOfTheBoard 2 years ago
"If there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence"
-Bertrand Russell
I know who said that and I like it.
ForsetiOfTheBoard 2 years ago
well said.
prisspross32 2 years ago
Thank you, I try
ForsetiOfTheBoard 2 years ago
yes, but god put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden of evil. how can there be knowledge of something that doesn't exist? furthermore, the choice adam made was not a fre choice, because he did not have the requisite knowledge of good or evil, until he tasted the fruit. if you read genesis carefully, you will see that god created evil, and then punished adam and eve beyond his first promise of death. this shows again that adam did not have all the facts before his choice.
watty024 2 years ago
he also banished them from the garden lest they eat from the tree of life. therefore, life is not a gift that man rejected from god, rather it is an entity that exists inside a tree in the garden of eden that god is forcefully keeping us from. and you call this our decision? you claim that man 'created' evil, when you know that god is the creator of everything? you cannot give him the credit for everything without giving him the blame for everything.
watty024 2 years ago
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
—Isaiah 45:7
TheEvolver311 2 years ago
Alright, so anything that comes into being has to be created... in that case, what created God? And if God came from nothing, why couldn't the Universe just as well be the thing that came from nothing at the beginning of time as we know it? Why do people need to bring in a fairy tale that really fills no function?
friedlish 3 years ago
God did not come into being; He is self-existent and eternal.
Out of nothing, nothing comes. It is logically absurd to think otherwise. The universe had a beginning, and that beginning must have been caused by something other than itself.
And to call God a fairy tale is question begging.
Victoruto 3 years ago
To call God a fairy tale/myth/superstition is to compare its characteristics to all other such things ... and recognize that he is painted as Zeus.
bberntson 3 years ago
To compare the Biblical God with that of Zeus is nothing short of ignorance. Not even the skeptic scholar (at least respectable one) would even go so far.
Zeus is not a perfect, sovereign, triune, absolute, immutable, moral being as is the God of Christianity.
Victoruto 3 years ago
"Painted as Zeus" means that his image in artwork and stained-glass windows is that of Zeus, not his power-level or morality or triune-ness. Although Yahweh initially was a vengeful Hebrew storm god, I think.
When I compare your Christian god's characteristics to things from fairy tales, I'm talking about the fact that these beings have been manufactured in our cultural imagination and don't actually exist out there somewhere waiting to cause us harm if we supplicate before them.
bberntson 3 years ago
Ah, "painted" literally. Well, that's up to the artist to paint God as He sees fit.
No Yahweh was not originally a "vengeful Hebrew storm god". The Hebrews had One God, not a plurality of gods.
So if something from a fairytale compares to Christianity, then Christianity is not true? How does that follow? If a fairytale has a story about ducks, should we then conclude that ducks aren't real?
Victoruto 3 years ago
yahweh, as i understand existed in a polythestic state, with others such as baal. only when certain jews, yahwehists if you will, decided to go monotheistic, did he become one god. christians must remember that their entire religion is founded on the bedrock of judaism. thus you must accept the crazy old testament, and before, background prior to accepting the NT.
johnnyp76 3 years ago
Your understanding of Jewish theology is incorrect. There was always one God, and still is in Judaism.
Victoruto 3 years ago
All peoples came out of a polytheistic religious system, even the Jewish peoples. Their history didn't begin when they began ignoring or denying all of the other gods. The Christian god's development is detailed in Karen Armstrong's "A History of God."
And the characteristics I'm talking about that link the Bible with fairy tales don't include ducks and other real things, but do include acts of magic and talking animals and plants.
bberntson 3 years ago
You can beg the question all you want, but it doesn't help your case. You are assuming what you should be proving. There have been many so-called scholars who have had many different theories about the rise of Judaism, however, your theory is in the minority.
Victoruto 3 years ago
Calling them "so-called" doesn't change the fact that the majority of biblical scholars rely on actual historical evidence, not unfounded theological presuppositions. People don't like to hear the story past their childhood understanding of the story of God, it seems. Just another story.
bberntson 3 years ago
Yes, the majority of scholars rely on evidence, and most of them agree that the evidence does not point to a polytheistic Jewish origin.
However, all scholars have unfounded presuppositions—whether theological or not. You do, so do I, so does scholar X. These presuppositions will dictate one's take on reality and guide the interpretation of evidence.
Victoruto 3 years ago
TLDL. the longest intro to the cosmological version of the argument from incredulity ever. "I don't know how/can't imagine it, therefore it didn't happen!"
On to part 2...
flux77xulf 3 years ago
He knows there was actually no BANG when the universe was created because there was no elements created yet therefore its impossible for a sound to be made. If you still don't understand read this, when the universe was made electrons and protons were moving to fast to make bonds that means no elements were made. oxygen,carbon,helium,etc didn't exist right away so sound couldn't travel threw them. Thus when the universe started there was no noise.
Mikex117 3 years ago
We dont know. Is there a supreme being watching over us all???? A God ????
Or is the whole universe just particles blown out of a space elephants butthole ????
Who Knows!!!!!!!!!!
zsushbear 3 years ago
Does God created also the dinasours? Come on. There are proof that dinasours exists. Oh probably God did a mistake and he says oh. Let me reinvent something else.
vlado8768 3 years ago
It really bugs me when theologians, theists, creationists, ID-advocates uses gaps in human understanding and knowledge to make arguments. It is as if there biblical scriptures made predictions about the big-bang, Evolution and other modern scientific endeavors in its 2000 years. Every time, a scientific discovery that explains previously mysterious questions, the theists act as if they had known it all along.
Abdulmelik2007 3 years ago 7
Remember, theists of the middle ages believed in a flat-earth, a geocentric solar system. I don't mind theists who debate on philosophical stand points, but it gets to my nerves when they try to verify and explain God using science. If you want your religion to be taken seriously, make a "specific" prediction about how matter behaves or how the universe operates instead of inserting ur God in the gaps of the contemporary science knowledge.
Abdulmelik2007 3 years ago 2
Astonishingly enough, we are allowing them to make these arguments. The fact remains, how ever you explain the singularity problem in the big bang, theists are gonna slide in and make that ever regressive question of the who, the how and the why that new theory works. In conclusion, scientists ask the questions and then find the answers while theists always ask questions and adapt their positions to the answers of the scientists.
Abdulmelik2007 3 years ago 3
This type of ignorance, loop-holes of questions and never making an effort to find the answers does not help the cause of our civilization. By hindering rational thought and inserting God into every equation we don't fully understand, religion may well poison everything and be detrimental to the future of the human race.
Abdulmelik2007 3 years ago 2
Isaiah 40:22: It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in...
can you explain me about the 'circle' please?
ploughable 3 years ago
Abdulmelik2007:Bible?Is a Jewish bias scripture, which the old testament carries the first book of the torah,the(tanak)Religion is a natural human phenomena which evolved in mankind it doesnt explain our existence in any logical way,If anyone out there believes God created Earth in 7 days,they possess a brain of a 7 year old who believes in FAIRY TALES,it means you believe trees magically appeared!!Or did God had the seeds he scattered in the Garden of Eden?and created Caucasian Adam and Eve!!
ShumbaRules 3 years ago
It has been quite a while since i made this post. I should thank you for the reply nonetheless. I hope u have not mistaken me for a theist. I have no respect for the scriptures whatsoever, i think it is laughable people take them seriously. It would be a good source of entertainment but a huge waste of time. It would almost be impossible to find unedited versions of the scriptures. Hence, i concern myself with the philosophical aspect of God. In my previous posts i tried to tell how much
Abdulmelik2007 3 years ago
continued ...
i despise the god of the gaps argument especially when the religious loons have got it miserably wrong over the past millennium.
I would call myself an atheist rather than an adeist( i wonder if there is any such name ) and i am agnostic towards deism( yet vastly interested in it). Anyways, the addition of a God( additional consciousness) is of no help since it begs the question of how that god came into being.
Abdulmelik2007 3 years ago
"Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary evidence...."..Is it possible that there is a god? Sure. Is it likely?-- There is no evidence of it.
brookside1 3 years ago 3
Even if you could ever prove that God does exist or did exist in the past it still wouldn't change the fact that there isn't a single good thing that can be said about him. Same goes jesus is he ever existed or was just another lie in this world made up completely of lies.
EnjoyTheBuffet 3 years ago
science isn't the opposite of religion. both religious people can athiest can use science as a means to appreciate nature. but it does bring us evidences, not proofs, about both side of the argument, and our job is really to access the evidence and decide which theory explains our being better. personally i take christianity =) and i really hope atheists can try to portrait a friendlier image, so are we as christians, its not about winning the argument, but presenting the evidence, and listening
chunsli 3 years ago
Bible is the biggest lie ever presented to mankind!It is not a Western religion but Eastern derived straight from Judaism,was never meant to reach an international audience but crusaders made it possible to bring that into Europe during the Roman Empire!!Today as America,Australia,New Zealand,Canada and many more Indo European speaking colonised territories dominates the World so as the IDEA,Have you ever wondered why the bible do not mention Eskimos,Alborigines or Chinese people?
ShumbaRules 3 years ago 5
You can always argue about this thing... but it has the same ending...every single time...religion wins. That´s because they can always make up some quick mysterious answers like: "Only God knows..." and that is why they can always escape from a cross-examination made by science...
MatterofLuck 3 years ago