What about taking jet flights to the UK to speak to rich Brighton "anarchists" in their beautiful houses by the seaside, where does that fit into the greater scheme of things?
That's where we are today. Smoking cannabis and getting by day to day exploiting the resources and labor of the non-Western countries. Driving around aimlessly caught up in a game whose only reward you cannot take with you when you die. I'm really depressed by this system. I know Zerzan doesn't approve of language, art or agriculture, but I could really do without almost all modern conveniences and get by with books and a simple farm. Too bad that's unsustainable now.
its true we need to clear alot of the junk we have in our lives that has been forced upon us.....working jobs we hate to buy stuff we dont need......its insanity....!!!
I agree, albeit doing dope isn't the ultimate evil, particularily in the western world where it's so demonized. Rather it's abuse of Coca-Cola, Pepsi, etc. and fast-food and sweets like Snickers. These are 10x more neurotic.
@munkyusm Well, I wouldn't say that, but I would say Zerzan would believe that in using technology to address human suffering, we create more suffering.
@PObserver How can that be valid? While I will agree that technology is leading to an increased birth rate, which means more people are born into poverty, percentage wise, the global population is in far less poverty than at any point in history.
@PObserver It's still absurd to think that if we hit the reset button that this won't just start all over again. Technological innovation can be summed up like this - human beings always want to be more comfortable and have the capacity to do so.
@munkyusm True, but watch the video. Does Zerzan make any decent observations of our daily lives in advanced Western countries? Is there "too much stuff"?
@PObserver Well yes, I agree there's too much stuff. But you have to realize why. It's not because of the capitalist system. It's because of corporatism and unlimited credit. Imagine a country that has no federal reserve and no corporations (a corporation can not exist without government laws). You could still have people trading with each other, but they would have to do it within their means. Everything would be much simpler, but we'd still have decent technology.
@munkyusm Capitalism necessitates an overabundance of stuff via the problem of surplus value. Do you really believe that in a truly open and libertarian society that there wouldn't exist a need for sweet African coltan and rare earth minerals to construct and market electronics?
@PObserver You have to understand how an economy that is built on saving actually works. When people are living within their means and prices accurately reflect supply & demand (which is impossible in the current system), things are consumed a much more sustainable rate. There is no bigger polluter than government involvement in the economy - it inherently causes massive misallocation of resources and waste. Take public roads for example - (NEXT)
@PObserver (CONT) Public roads sound good, but what it really does is encourages millions upon millions of people to drive anywhere they want. This is like the major cause of global warming.
@PObserver Is this sarcasm? Free markets truly do care about the environment. If you don't believe me, go out to the country and look around. There's nothing but people owning land and keeping their property clean for the most part. You don't see many people clear cutting their land and laughing hysterically while wearing top hats and monocles. This only happens in the current situation, where government takes land and gives/sells it to business.
@munkyusm I don't know where you live but where I do, it's all suburbs and strip malls. When it gets overrun with "undesirables" it branches out even further, like urban sprawl is a majesty to behold. Its reasons are entirely economic, its method inefficient.
@PObserver Whoa, wait a minute...you're not calling what we have now a free market are you? This is state capitalism - only slightly less centrally planned than China.
@PObserver A free market can't exist when there's a government. You're correct, as long as there is a government, cronyism rules the roost. But look back, the evidence is obvious...the less government intervention in the economy, the better. Imagine no intellectual property laws, no such thing as corporations, and no such thing as a federal reserve. Only individuals cooperatively trading with each other without any government coercion.
@munkyusm Looking back I'm reminded of when there was less government intervention, and I think about the looms, the child miners and slavery spanning thousands of years. All of this stuff still exists and is still financed by Western money.
@PObserver Child labor? You do realize children have been working for the past 80,000 years right? Unless you have an advanced economy where you don't need their help, children will work on a farm etc. Slavery spanning thousands of years? Are you fucking kidding me? This was ALWAYS facilitated by the state. And calling these things a western phenomenon? Complete absurdity.
@munkyusm No, I'm just pointing out it's continued by those who feel there isn't any slavery in the world. Yeah children work but the point is that there is exploitation. Your example of a family farm is very different from a factory and to merely survive. The point is, government or no, I don't trust those who control wealth in capitalist societies.
@PObserver You're still not understanding how a true free market works. There would be a sound currency so the poor could actually save. There would be no ip laws, so people could not become billionaires. There would be no massive corporations. Prices would forever be dropping to the lowest possible rate. The average citizen would be a millionaire in this environment by the time they retired.
@munkyusm Add to that, that a chain of banks and capital wouldn't function as a legitimate ponzi scheme wherein the accumulation of wealth would coalesce with a select few? Corporatism seems almost inevitable, even in the most ardently libertarian societies. Is this society you're dreaming of one that advocates voluntarism? That if you disagree with the mode of production, that you can opt out as it were? If not I'm not sure it's one I'd want to live in.
nice raybans, john
freakyfadge 1 week ago
Duncan Trussell sent me here.
MisterAaronRodriguez 1 month ago
Zerzan is a nut, but this is interesting.
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 months ago
What about taking jet flights to the UK to speak to rich Brighton "anarchists" in their beautiful houses by the seaside, where does that fit into the greater scheme of things?
asubjectiveopinion 5 months ago
@asubjectiveopinion yeah, he should have walked to the US east coast then swam across the atlantic.
coolsauce2102 3 months ago
lol, what a bunch of barbarians.
qwertypoiu4321 9 months ago
That's where we are today. Smoking cannabis and getting by day to day exploiting the resources and labor of the non-Western countries. Driving around aimlessly caught up in a game whose only reward you cannot take with you when you die. I'm really depressed by this system. I know Zerzan doesn't approve of language, art or agriculture, but I could really do without almost all modern conveniences and get by with books and a simple farm. Too bad that's unsustainable now.
PObserver 1 year ago
its true we need to clear alot of the junk we have in our lives that has been forced upon us.....working jobs we hate to buy stuff we dont need......its insanity....!!!
DazzTz 1 year ago 5
@PObserver
I agree, albeit doing dope isn't the ultimate evil, particularily in the western world where it's so demonized. Rather it's abuse of Coca-Cola, Pepsi, etc. and fast-food and sweets like Snickers. These are 10x more neurotic.
PolPotPop 1 year ago
@PObserver So, I guess trying to get rid of suffering is bad in this guy's mind?
munkyusm 1 month ago
@munkyusm Well, I wouldn't say that, but I would say Zerzan would believe that in using technology to address human suffering, we create more suffering.
PObserver 1 month ago
@PObserver How can that be valid? While I will agree that technology is leading to an increased birth rate, which means more people are born into poverty, percentage wise, the global population is in far less poverty than at any point in history.
munkyusm 1 month ago
@munkyusm Because technology led to the division of labor and is placing humanity on unsustainable paths.
PObserver 1 month ago
@PObserver It's still absurd to think that if we hit the reset button that this won't just start all over again. Technological innovation can be summed up like this - human beings always want to be more comfortable and have the capacity to do so.
munkyusm 1 month ago
@munkyusm True, but watch the video. Does Zerzan make any decent observations of our daily lives in advanced Western countries? Is there "too much stuff"?
PObserver 1 month ago
@PObserver Well yes, I agree there's too much stuff. But you have to realize why. It's not because of the capitalist system. It's because of corporatism and unlimited credit. Imagine a country that has no federal reserve and no corporations (a corporation can not exist without government laws). You could still have people trading with each other, but they would have to do it within their means. Everything would be much simpler, but we'd still have decent technology.
munkyusm 1 month ago
@munkyusm Capitalism necessitates an overabundance of stuff via the problem of surplus value. Do you really believe that in a truly open and libertarian society that there wouldn't exist a need for sweet African coltan and rare earth minerals to construct and market electronics?
PObserver 1 month ago
@PObserver You have to understand how an economy that is built on saving actually works. When people are living within their means and prices accurately reflect supply & demand (which is impossible in the current system), things are consumed a much more sustainable rate. There is no bigger polluter than government involvement in the economy - it inherently causes massive misallocation of resources and waste. Take public roads for example - (NEXT)
munkyusm 1 month ago
@PObserver (CONT) Public roads sound good, but what it really does is encourages millions upon millions of people to drive anywhere they want. This is like the major cause of global warming.
munkyusm 1 month ago
@munkyusm Well it's good to see that deregulation and a free market really has the interests of environmental preservation at heart...
PObserver 1 month ago
@PObserver Is this sarcasm? Free markets truly do care about the environment. If you don't believe me, go out to the country and look around. There's nothing but people owning land and keeping their property clean for the most part. You don't see many people clear cutting their land and laughing hysterically while wearing top hats and monocles. This only happens in the current situation, where government takes land and gives/sells it to business.
munkyusm 1 month ago
@munkyusm I don't know where you live but where I do, it's all suburbs and strip malls. When it gets overrun with "undesirables" it branches out even further, like urban sprawl is a majesty to behold. Its reasons are entirely economic, its method inefficient.
PObserver 1 month ago
@PObserver Whoa, wait a minute...you're not calling what we have now a free market are you? This is state capitalism - only slightly less centrally planned than China.
munkyusm 1 month ago
@munkyusm How is it not a free market? What would a free market look like? All markets inevitably become like what we have now. Crony and for itself.
PObserver 4 weeks ago
@PObserver A free market can't exist when there's a government. You're correct, as long as there is a government, cronyism rules the roost. But look back, the evidence is obvious...the less government intervention in the economy, the better. Imagine no intellectual property laws, no such thing as corporations, and no such thing as a federal reserve. Only individuals cooperatively trading with each other without any government coercion.
munkyusm 4 weeks ago
@munkyusm Looking back I'm reminded of when there was less government intervention, and I think about the looms, the child miners and slavery spanning thousands of years. All of this stuff still exists and is still financed by Western money.
PObserver 4 weeks ago
@PObserver Child labor? You do realize children have been working for the past 80,000 years right? Unless you have an advanced economy where you don't need their help, children will work on a farm etc. Slavery spanning thousands of years? Are you fucking kidding me? This was ALWAYS facilitated by the state. And calling these things a western phenomenon? Complete absurdity.
munkyusm 4 weeks ago
@munkyusm No, I'm just pointing out it's continued by those who feel there isn't any slavery in the world. Yeah children work but the point is that there is exploitation. Your example of a family farm is very different from a factory and to merely survive. The point is, government or no, I don't trust those who control wealth in capitalist societies.
PObserver 4 weeks ago
@PObserver You're still not understanding how a true free market works. There would be a sound currency so the poor could actually save. There would be no ip laws, so people could not become billionaires. There would be no massive corporations. Prices would forever be dropping to the lowest possible rate. The average citizen would be a millionaire in this environment by the time they retired.
munkyusm 3 weeks ago
@munkyusm Add to that, that a chain of banks and capital wouldn't function as a legitimate ponzi scheme wherein the accumulation of wealth would coalesce with a select few? Corporatism seems almost inevitable, even in the most ardently libertarian societies. Is this society you're dreaming of one that advocates voluntarism? That if you disagree with the mode of production, that you can opt out as it were? If not I'm not sure it's one I'd want to live in.
PObserver 1 month ago