NASA Tailplane Icing Video Glenn Research Center

[guppiebugs]

Nobody seems to catch that the tailplane is not as a rule negatively loaded, especially at low speed. The DHC-6 tailplane never stalled - control forces just changed behind turbulent flow. The only thing true is that tailplane icing is dangerous, especially on servo-tabbed surfaces. The other thing true is that NASA "experts" don't know the first thing about Bernouilli flow or aircraft stability. Thats really dangerous ...

[mvanherd]

I believe that the Colgan Air pilot encountered this scenario.His reactions after the tailplane stall were correct and the co-pilots reducing of the flaps was correct.His response time was longer than the 2 /10th of a second reaction time that the test pilot stated and therefore the aircraft would have lost more than the 300 ft that the test pilot did and probably enter a spin,which it did.The auto pilot kept the plane flying in that configuration until the departure and the rest is aerodynamics

[umahuma4]

Dash 8*

[umahuma4]

Isnt this what happened to the Dah 8 Colgan Air up in Buffalo? A tail stall induced by tail icing since they were flying through known icing conditions.

[gynxor]

Not was reported by the NTSB. NTSB shows the pilot fails to recognize and or recover from a standard stall due to lack of airspeed in the landing configuration.

[snagpilot]

I don't believe that. There is no proof of ice bridging at all. I have never seen it, and I've been in a lot of icing. You have ice, turn on your boots.

[gvjackson81]

At less the 1/4" ice can actualy flex with the boot, build more ice while the boot is inflated and make a cap on the boot which can make the boot ineffective.

[gvjackson81]

But for regional turboprop ac the best anti/de-ice systems are the use of a system called a de-ice boot. This system when used correctly will almost always clean a huge percentage of the ice on the wings. The downside is if this system is manualy used most pilots at the site of any ice will use it to soon. Too soon meaning aprox less than 1/4".

[gvjackson81]

For the question of spraying hot water. Spraying hot water will freeze even faster. hot water frezes faster than cold water. water. But your train of thought is going in the right direction. In some ac there is hot glycol that is used. Its called a wing weeper system in which thousand of tiny holes let antifreeze coat the leading edge. This is anti-ice, another "anti-ice" system is a heated leading edge devices. Heated lead edge devices use either bp air from the engine or electric heating.

[tommo2785]

Hot water will not work. agreed. Namely due to the the fact that when you atomize a substance (like when you spray it out of a nozzle. The amount of surface area on the particle is exponentially increased in relation to the Volume to that of a solid jet. Thats High school physics and chemistry.

The heated leading edge idea is the best in my opinion. In refrigeration coils the ice build up is huge. Once it is formed the coil is heated and ice falls off, the same way a comercial ice machine works.

[gvjackson81]

I agree with pythos1, too much ap. I do disagree with total deactivation of ss/sp warnings. All in all. less ap in icing conditions. Actualy there should be no use of ap in known icing conditions, and more training for this type of situation

[eastcowestrev]

Why not spray boiling water directly onto the surfaces affected? or why not include heating into the actual leading edges affected when the aircraft are constructed?

[pythos1]

So here is a question.

While making your approach in icing conditions, stick shaker gives way to a thing called a stick pusher. This device gives all indications of a tailplane stall.

So should all such devices be deactivated until some better form of warning system is thought of.

I see people writing all sorts of ignorant crap about the flight crew of that Q400. What if he thought he was doing the right thing. He did retract the flaps and drop power before all control loss.

Too much auto.

[aescobar32]

are you relating this with the Q400 at buffalo?

[andyw248]

Interesting. That must be quite counterintuitive to pull back and reduce flaps on a final approach. Do the commercial TP simulators provide simulation of tailplane stalls?

[P0wningPrince]

awesome thanks for info.

[cjracer1000]

i saw this on google videos a while back

[Latvietis96]

Why so interesting?

[coolmanguy20]

cool info!