NJ Install WaterFurnace Geothermal heating & cooling PART 1

[tommy0135]

This administratio is just as addicted to oil as any other. Lybia proves it.

[M2Lfilms]

So you replaced the geothermal hot water tank with a solarthermal hot water tank.

1. What was the problem with the geothermal hot water tank?

2. Why did the geothermal hot water tank have to be replaced?

3. Is the solarthermal hot water tank more efficient than the geothermal hot water tank?

4. What are the price differences?

5. Can you post a video answering these questions and explaining so those of us considering installing a system can benefit from the answers?

[the43k]

Actually, I think you need to write a letter to the department of energy and explain why you think ground source heat pumps are not a form of renewable energy. I'd argue your first point, but I don't know what it is.

DOE- website definition

The geothermal heat pump, also known as the ground source heat pump, is a highly efficient renewable energy technology that is gaining wide acceptance for both residential and commercial buildings..........

[shark2k86]

Two things. First, look at DX Geothermal, as that uses copper pipes so your response to casemon is false. Second, what you installed is not a renewable energy. You are not generating any power. You are transferring heat (either from your home to the ground or vice versa) and then expanding that heat (the heat pump) to make it hotter. But you do not generate any power from this. You should more correctly tell people that you installed a Ground-Source Heat Pump.

[daltonagre]

Here in Brazil, there's no electricity being produced from geothermal power.

[the43k]

@daltonagre You are thinking of a different type of geothermal..... We don't use the magma of the earth to generate steam to make electricity. This is using the ground as a heat exchanger.

[mphello]

@the43k Well, maybe if you dug a little deeper, you'd hit magma! (just kidding)

Great video!

[Pasechnik1]

I cannot believe this monster rig couldn't dipper and less holes. The hole is too big (water well type). The grout is not high efficient :(

[sassylassy526]

The music is annoying.

[casemon]

Thanks for sharing this. Watching the video in the car with my father, he has a question:

What material are the loops made from? Was copper considered, given it's high thermal efficiency?

Also, what was the total cost, including equipment, landscaping, drilling, materials, etc.?

+1 for The Zeitgeist Movement; we're one planet and we can do better than we currently are; we have the means today! GeoThermal is just one piece to solving our shared energy issues.

[the43k]

@casemon the loops are PVC geothermal grade, they last 50 years. Copper is not an option. Cost is very difficult because there are 20 different variables, including soil type to size of home. it could cost 25k to 45k for a house 2000sqft to 4000sqft. That is before the 30% tax credit and other state rebates. In general the payback is about 7 years and you can expect 50% to 75% reduction in energy costs for heating and cooling.

[HeavyDemir]

what is the coolant temp going in and coming out of the wells ??

[the43k]

The temperatures fluctuate during the seasons. If we started with a temperature of 55 degrees going into winter, at the end of the season, the inline temperatures could be 31 degrees. Generally, the efficiency will be the best during the beginning of each season. Ground coldest at beginning of summer, because of all the heat taken out and ground the warmest at beginning of winter because of all the heat added. As long as you have an 8 degree temperature difference, the system will work properly.

[Sweeeeny]

Comparing air-to-air and Geotherm forced air costs. Plumbers hear “Geo” & up go prices. Ducting is the same as is the control electronics. The units have the same components- compressor, condenser, evaporator, etc. 400’ well is app $7.5k installed, glycolled, pumped and presented to the plumber ready to connect. The A to A requires components outside & you need to bury refrigerant & power lines & build a plinth. Difference in price is between $8-$10k extra ignoring the cost of the well. Why?

[the43k]

There is some manipulation of price, and some companies are worse than others, however, with geothermal systems, including Waterfurnace, they use very high quality and efficient components. You also need to compare Geo to the highest quality furnace or hybrid unit. Ultimately, it is a different installation process, that many techs don't know how to do, so at this point its a higher skill level trade, or at least different. So there is a limited number of contractors that have the ability

[Sweeeeny]

Curious - why stop at the bedrock? It has much better thermal properties than sand and gravel and I would have thought the equipment you had there would go through it without problem. Two x two hundred would be my choice.

[the43k]

@Sweeeeny Agreed. At the time it was 6k to have a mud (sand) driller and about 14k to have a rock driller. With a transition from sand to rock being about 80ft, we'd have to case (steel pipe) all the way to 80 ft. Very expensive, before the 30% federal tax credit and we had limited funds. In the position I'm in now, I'd highly consider what you are suggesting.

[truthteller908]

I live in Jersey and I'm interested in becoming part of the team. How can I get my foot in the door in this buisness? I'm 27 and have some HVAC experince under my belt already and will work for peanuts for the opportunity to gain some geothermal experience.

[paydirt66]

Sorry guys but it's you that are ridiculous. Everyone and there mother should use these as long as they dont live near a fault zone. I think you guys don't understand how it works or you wouldnt be saying that. Look at it like this. Go to the back of your refrigerator and feel the radiator. I bet its warm. In winter geothermal works the same way with refrigerator fluid, except the earth is the refrigerator and your house is the radiator.

[demmylowther]

Geo thermal is not practicle for the ave. homeowner .Most people ,not all,but most do not consider their HVAC system to be that much of a priority they will spend that kind of money,and have their lawn ripped up.Basically it's for wealthy people with larger size homes.Maybe one day it will change,I don't see that happening though !

[dwetick]

This whole concept is ridiculous!

[demmylowther]

@dwetick Absolfuckinlutely !

[m3141592]

Its lifetime costs are about the same as a gas one, and it saves 70% on your bill.

[fibbsabaddy]

how?

[ianmeadmaker]

Anyone interested in this should check out The Zeitgeist Movement.

[jpgab93]

I don't understand. Why would someone's property taxes go up b/c of this? B/c the house's value goes up?

[wwe107]

So all that money you thought you would be saving from not using coal, propane, oil, or gas would be sucked out of you in the form of a new tax bill. Don't you love your government and the banks that have an interest in everything, yet?

[dahur]

If we have a 4.5 kw solar system put in here in NM, (where we have 6.2 sun hours per day), approximately 2 1/2 months of production will go just to satisfy the property tax increase of about $200 per year. That has to change. So many people are not aware of this. Also I believe the home owners insurance will go up also.

[dahur]

Got an estimate here in southern New Mexico. 4 tons @ $7500 per=$30,000 Fed and state tax credits of 40%= $12k. Total cost $18k. (well, the contractor's contract has a 10% plus or minus, I'm sure it would be plus). What people also need to know is your property taxes are GOING UP. That is if you don't live in one of the 26 states that exempt for renewable energy. My accessor told me for each $20,000 invested, there will be an increase of about $100 per year. That doesn't work for me..

[the43k]

Assuming all your data is correct, your getting the most efficient HVAC system made on the planet, that will cut your heating, cooling and hot water (installed desuperheater) by 50% to 70%. If you deduct the cost of a regular system-since you needed a HVAC system in some shape or form anyway- I suspect you'll pay off the additional cost of digging the loops in years. Now as far as tax accessors, I've seen the same issue her in NJ in some towns and all have retracted the additional charge.

[the43k]

Now you have a environmentally friendly system that doesn't use gas or oil, you can produce the energy needed to run it on your roof with solar panels and you have spent 18K dollars on a system that you can expect to see a yearly return of around 10%. And you have done your part to remove our nations dependency on foreign oil and hopefully prevented climate change.

[dahur]

Yes, that's why I want to have one put in, and still do. NJ is a state that has passed the exemption for renewable energy, (in fact according to my Home Power magazine, NJ is one of the best states for RE. Your accessor has to remove the cost.

Until it's in black and white, I can't take it for granted our accessor will remove the cost. I have to wait for legislation to get passed.

We moved here from Michigan last year, mainly for RE. However, we've met this hurdle, temporarily, I hope.

[dahur]

When I said NJ is one of the best states for RE, I meant for tax incentives.

[truthteller908]

@the43k I live in Jersey and I'm interested in becoming part of the team. How can I get my foot in the door in this buisness? I'm 27 and have some HVAC experience under my belt already (completed 11month Lincoln Tech HVAC course and have worked for Richards heating and cooling doing residential installations in essex county) and will work for peanuts for the opportunity to gain some geothermal experience.

[siszam]

You will save a lot more in energy costs than you will pay in additional taxes. Do the math. Would you rather pay a hundred less in taxes and several hundred more to heat and cool your home or pay a hundred in taxes and get many time that in energy savings? Be smart. Plus you get a tax credit for installing an energy star rated heating system.

[dahur]

I'm not going to be penalized for doing the right thing, by paying more in property taxes. As soon as NM passes a property tax exemption, I'm on board. That's just me. Others won't mind paying yearly to have a Geothermal or RE system.

[the43k]

not sure where you live, but here in NJ there is not tax increase for a green improvement.

[dahur]

Yes you're lucky NJ is one of the 26 states that have property tax exemptions for RE systems. Here in NM , we do not.(yet)

[Itanium153]

NJ is friendly as far as going green,

There are no tax hikes for going green.

I had solar panel installed on my home from sunpower/Mercury solar.

I am going to think about this investment geo thermal after getting more solar panels.

[the43k]

When you are ready, contact me.. I do geothermal installations.

[Itanium153]

NJ Does not tax for going green.

Think about it we are killing are need for forgein oil.

[KenliMusic]

That's Great! Great stuff!

[KenliMusic]

So how's the system working out for you now that it's been going for a while?

[the43k]

Extremely happy. No problems with waterfurnance and very happy we installed it. I did have some performance data that was concerning me, it was then soon realized that we had some serious insulation and air-leakage issues that we had to address. You can watch my weatherization video regarding that.  Now that we are sealed tight, the system is running above projected water-furnace performance standards.

[fretraer]

Well these systems are not really that green as you are saying. I worked on a lot of these units where leaks develope in the ground loop (filled up with antifreeze) and since repair was too expensive costumer opted for just filling up everytime with water/antifreeze.

[the43k]

I can't really defend a system that was installed improperly. The systems installed now use an environmentally friendly glycol in the very unlikely event of a leak. The pipes are fused together with extremely high temperatures that give the pipes life expectancies of over 50 years. I would be willing to bet that its impact on the earth is far safer then oil and gas spills that continue to destroy our clean water and land on a daily basis.

[tooldrums1000]

NICE! But renewable energy isnt avaliable to power the whole us grid.

[the43k]

I disagree. Is it a quick and easy fix, absolutely not. Over decades could we switch to solar, wind, wave, biofuel and geothermal, plus do a massive investment in conservation and efficiency.  Absolutely yes. The power grid and several other key topics would have to be addressed, but it is very possible.

[the43k]

There is enough solar energy striking the earth to supply the planets energy needs, yet all the other options. Again, not suggesting it would be easy, but if we spent as much money on renewable energy development as we do bombs, airplanes and tanks we be there already.

[hulkmam3]

this looks amazing. eventauly we gotta come to terms with or soroundings and enviroment we got to or we are doomed.

[rvbarnesboy]

I believe in this technology and think that it will be emergent. seems like a no brainer. for all the reasons he said. am putting in my house in upstate new york. should pay for itself in five years. cheap oil is OVER.

[4773266]

Go Ed! I agree with you completely. Should work well in The Bahamas.

[Congcong143]

I am in the planning stage of putting geothermal heat pump in my home here in NJ too. It's very expensive (32K) because i don't have air ducts. Our heating is oil furnace and the cost has risen up to almost $5 a gallon. How long ago did you do this? are starting to get the benefit of it?

[the43k]

I am completing the inside work today (Envision WaterFurnace and GeoTank).. I will have part II online soon. As far as benefits it will take some time to compile all data. We expect a system payback in about 7 to 8 years at current prices. We shall see.

[the43k]

I will do my best, keep in mind actual long term savings will take months for the data to be calculated. Happy to hear you enjoyed part 1.

[georgiageothermal]

Nice video. Looking forward to Part 2, and hope it includes details about return on investment. I'm about to install a geothermal system in south Georgia & wish there were more testimonials online from people who have done it. The environmental benefits of geothermal are a no-brainer. I don't need to be convinced about that. For this technology to really catch on, people need details of cost & cost savings. At last year's NG prices, I expect my system to pay for itself in 6 years or less.

[the43k]

Part II is coming as soon as it is complete