(VI) To tie this together, AAT2 describes the process of the internalization of capacities. These are bound up into a goal hierarchy: some are conscious, others are non-conscious. Through self-directed attention and mindfulness one becomes focally aware of each stage. Thus enabling a specific strategy for conscious self-mastery. Properly considered, this need not imply a homnunculus or internal controller of the self. Rather change develops organically in mindful awareness and self-reflection.
@TRAGlCHERO Hey TH, you preempt my strike ;) as a matter of fact, it is the process and structure of attention I was planning on pursuing, I’m really interested in its mehcanism and potency (especially as it relates to aesthetics, rhetoric and effective conversations), as you say it is the key, the power we have, by the way I really like your comments and find them extremely useful, I’ll reread them a coupla times for sure, they are very much appreciated, really great stuff, Thank you!
@almafarag Before I forget, I should mention that AAT2 was specifically developed to model of communication competencies. Hmmm... I think I know what you're up to >:-) If you implied talk as crucial to the construction of social identity (i.e., effective conversations, rhetoric, and aesthetics).
@TRAGlCHERO By the way, have you come across Todd Oakley, it’s semantics-oriented, I guess, but he deals specifically with the grammar of attention, here’s a link: w w w mind-consciousness-language com/articles%20oakley1 h t m
@almafarag Didn't mean to steal your thunder ;-) I agree with the general direction you're taking. Todd Oakley, is a new name. Thanks for introducing me. I reviewed part of his theory. It's definitely on the right track. His six principles are in line with the research I'm aware of. I've also followed rhetoric for some time, but never made the connection to attention. It's an interesting thought. I'm curious to see how far he operationalize his views in practice. Will stay tuned. Cheers.
(V) I believe Buddhist psychology provides the solution, as a state of mindful awareness to present conditions is to simultaneously reorganize the flow of attention, and thus re-modulate, over long-periods of practice, the underlying patterns of neural activation in the system. I conjecture that CCT, AAT/AAT2, coupled with research on mindfulness produces a natural framework for pursuing conscious change strategies, skill-acquisition, and larger alterations in the architecture of personality.
(IV) I want to suggest that such patterns are entrained neural states, implanted over years of experience, and intimate features of the structure of personality. Which is why they can be so hard to dismantle at the conscious level. These are pernicious due to the process of automaticity (as you have said), or of repeated non-conscious activations. But we know that neural networks also decay over time. And here I agree with what has been said, the key to this problem is attention.
(III) This theory was used to model AAT/AAT2 (see Parks, 1985, 1994). Personal action is broken into a hierarchy of self-regulation across nine levels of abstraction from muscle movements to idealized selves. Behavior is mobilized into a coherent performance under this view. Crucial to this theory is the idea of self-directed attention: The momentary shifting in attention to relevant internal standards (embedded neural patterns) and external approximations of those standards.
(II) Negative feedback describes a discrepancy-reduction/action-perception cycle. Present perceptions are compared to a reference goal/value in order to reduce deviations in output behavior. Perceptions are processed in pattern recognition, and sedimented into neural circuitry (the comparator function), which produce equilibrium or disequilibrium in the system. The organism attempts to reach internal coherence between perceived conditions and overt behavior (see Carver & Scheier, 1982).
(I) I'm loving this discussion. Space permitting, I'd like to contribute some thoughts. I'll make six comments, and try to be concise. CCT (cybernetic control theory), and AAT2 (action assembly theory) suggest insights on personality modulation, viewed in terms of skill-disposition-acquisition. Briefly, in CCT, organisms are seen as self-regulating systems. Negative feedback (NF) serves as the basic unit and includes input (perception), comparison (value), and output (behavior) functions.
... is here now in the present state of affairs. I guess what I'm trying to flush out is a subtle motivation for doing these practices. Sometimes I practice without being free to inquire because I'm trying to get somewhere I once was usually because of some discomfort, anxiety, or fear. When I'm totally free to inquire, all my energy is directed towards inquiry and insight occurs.
@Internalexpansion great comments, thank you so much for taking the time and sharing your views, 'practicing without being free to inquire because we're trying to get somewhere we were before' can be a serious impediment indeed, we all know how things won't really work when we are forcing them, how could you relax by straining? we stretch more efficiently when we just let go and allow gravity to do the work... persistence should be paired with patience (with our current limitations)...
cont: to gain this insight I once had. However, sometimes I catch myself trying to escape the present situation the present state of affairs through these visualizations, meditations etc. So again, I guess I re-emphasize the point that these issues are a matter of state of mind, and to try to reach for a state of mind that you hold dear in your memory is again an escape. The circumstances are ever-changing, we are everchanging, and so the shortest distance to insight to understanding is.....
I re-watched the first part of the video before I posted my comments and realized that I was restating a lot of what you had already said, but I had already written them out so there they are haha. I do tend to lapse into habitual patterns, and what I have found myself doing is trying something that worked for me in the past.
The reengineering of personality through conscious effort has some interesting implications in my eyes. When we become aware of an undesirable pattern of thinking and feeling our reaction is to move away from this pattern by creating a more suitable one. Now, this reengineering is a reaction that stems from a judgment of a previous pattern, and in effect is treating the symptoms without addressing the underlying cause; because of this the new pattern is quite fragile.
It is not rooted to the core of our being. I may be mistaken but again in my eyes this reaction points us to the root of a socially constructed schizophrenia. This reaction assumes that we stand apart from our thoughts and feelings as some definite entity that can direct them, when it appears to me that the experience of ourselves as ‘the controller’ of thought is just a thought itself. When this thought is no longer there, we as individual personalities have disintegrated.
No doubt we as the idea of ourselves can change the way we appear, we can revaluate experiences through memory and reinterpret events to better suit our current situations, but it’s just the same game. We substitute one program for the next and in doing so we stray from a more whole understanding of personality.
There is a kind of effortless change I’ve experienced a few times in my life that occurs when I become deeply aware of the root of an issue. One where there is no violence no forcing a pattern to conform to another, but effortless transformation fuelled by understanding. This change I cannot formulate, I can give no program for.
@Internalexpansion 'effortless change that occurs when I become deeply AWARE of the root of an issue' - this is very true, and I think you capture the crucial point here, actually the argument I try to put forward is very much in alignment with what you say, by recognizing underlying 'principles' (which simultaneously relieve us of unnecessary stress) we get a glimpse at how much it is a matter of state of mind, and perception... [cont]
@almafarag the tricky thing, in my opinion, might be that we tend to lapse back into our habitual, inhibiting patterns, and in order to regain the liberating state that the insight (into the 'principle') affords we have to recognize that 'principle' again and again (through visualization, meditation, exercise, diet, dialogue, etc. etc.) until it becomes the new default (automatized) in our interactions
Whoah! :o This video has so much great content! That was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for sharing. Keep up the great work.
Kostas.
kakosuranosx 1 year ago
(VI) To tie this together, AAT2 describes the process of the internalization of capacities. These are bound up into a goal hierarchy: some are conscious, others are non-conscious. Through self-directed attention and mindfulness one becomes focally aware of each stage. Thus enabling a specific strategy for conscious self-mastery. Properly considered, this need not imply a homnunculus or internal controller of the self. Rather change develops organically in mindful awareness and self-reflection.
TRAGlCHERO 1 year ago
@TRAGlCHERO Hey TH, you preempt my strike ;) as a matter of fact, it is the process and structure of attention I was planning on pursuing, I’m really interested in its mehcanism and potency (especially as it relates to aesthetics, rhetoric and effective conversations), as you say it is the key, the power we have, by the way I really like your comments and find them extremely useful, I’ll reread them a coupla times for sure, they are very much appreciated, really great stuff, Thank you!
almafarag 1 year ago
@almafarag Before I forget, I should mention that AAT2 was specifically developed to model of communication competencies. Hmmm... I think I know what you're up to >:-) If you implied talk as crucial to the construction of social identity (i.e., effective conversations, rhetoric, and aesthetics).
TRAGlCHERO 1 year ago
@TRAGlCHERO By the way, have you come across Todd Oakley, it’s semantics-oriented, I guess, but he deals specifically with the grammar of attention, here’s a link: w w w mind-consciousness-language com/articles%20oakley1 h t m
almafarag 1 year ago
@almafarag Didn't mean to steal your thunder ;-) I agree with the general direction you're taking. Todd Oakley, is a new name. Thanks for introducing me. I reviewed part of his theory. It's definitely on the right track. His six principles are in line with the research I'm aware of. I've also followed rhetoric for some time, but never made the connection to attention. It's an interesting thought. I'm curious to see how far he operationalize his views in practice. Will stay tuned. Cheers.
TRAGlCHERO 1 year ago
(V) I believe Buddhist psychology provides the solution, as a state of mindful awareness to present conditions is to simultaneously reorganize the flow of attention, and thus re-modulate, over long-periods of practice, the underlying patterns of neural activation in the system. I conjecture that CCT, AAT/AAT2, coupled with research on mindfulness produces a natural framework for pursuing conscious change strategies, skill-acquisition, and larger alterations in the architecture of personality.
TRAGlCHERO 1 year ago
(IV) I want to suggest that such patterns are entrained neural states, implanted over years of experience, and intimate features of the structure of personality. Which is why they can be so hard to dismantle at the conscious level. These are pernicious due to the process of automaticity (as you have said), or of repeated non-conscious activations. But we know that neural networks also decay over time. And here I agree with what has been said, the key to this problem is attention.
TRAGlCHERO 1 year ago
(III) This theory was used to model AAT/AAT2 (see Parks, 1985, 1994). Personal action is broken into a hierarchy of self-regulation across nine levels of abstraction from muscle movements to idealized selves. Behavior is mobilized into a coherent performance under this view. Crucial to this theory is the idea of self-directed attention: The momentary shifting in attention to relevant internal standards (embedded neural patterns) and external approximations of those standards.
TRAGlCHERO 1 year ago
(II) Negative feedback describes a discrepancy-reduction/action-perception cycle. Present perceptions are compared to a reference goal/value in order to reduce deviations in output behavior. Perceptions are processed in pattern recognition, and sedimented into neural circuitry (the comparator function), which produce equilibrium or disequilibrium in the system. The organism attempts to reach internal coherence between perceived conditions and overt behavior (see Carver & Scheier, 1982).
TRAGlCHERO 1 year ago
(I) I'm loving this discussion. Space permitting, I'd like to contribute some thoughts. I'll make six comments, and try to be concise. CCT (cybernetic control theory), and AAT2 (action assembly theory) suggest insights on personality modulation, viewed in terms of skill-disposition-acquisition. Briefly, in CCT, organisms are seen as self-regulating systems. Negative feedback (NF) serves as the basic unit and includes input (perception), comparison (value), and output (behavior) functions.
TRAGlCHERO 1 year ago
... is here now in the present state of affairs. I guess what I'm trying to flush out is a subtle motivation for doing these practices. Sometimes I practice without being free to inquire because I'm trying to get somewhere I once was usually because of some discomfort, anxiety, or fear. When I'm totally free to inquire, all my energy is directed towards inquiry and insight occurs.
Internalexpansion 1 year ago
@Internalexpansion great comments, thank you so much for taking the time and sharing your views, 'practicing without being free to inquire because we're trying to get somewhere we were before' can be a serious impediment indeed, we all know how things won't really work when we are forcing them, how could you relax by straining? we stretch more efficiently when we just let go and allow gravity to do the work... persistence should be paired with patience (with our current limitations)...
almafarag 1 year ago
@almafarag 'persistence should be paired with patience' - Beautiful, thank you again Mark :)
Internalexpansion 1 year ago
cont: to gain this insight I once had. However, sometimes I catch myself trying to escape the present situation the present state of affairs through these visualizations, meditations etc. So again, I guess I re-emphasize the point that these issues are a matter of state of mind, and to try to reach for a state of mind that you hold dear in your memory is again an escape. The circumstances are ever-changing, we are everchanging, and so the shortest distance to insight to understanding is.....
Internalexpansion 1 year ago
I re-watched the first part of the video before I posted my comments and realized that I was restating a lot of what you had already said, but I had already written them out so there they are haha. I do tend to lapse into habitual patterns, and what I have found myself doing is trying something that worked for me in the past.
Internalexpansion 1 year ago
The reengineering of personality through conscious effort has some interesting implications in my eyes. When we become aware of an undesirable pattern of thinking and feeling our reaction is to move away from this pattern by creating a more suitable one. Now, this reengineering is a reaction that stems from a judgment of a previous pattern, and in effect is treating the symptoms without addressing the underlying cause; because of this the new pattern is quite fragile.
Internalexpansion 1 year ago
It is not rooted to the core of our being. I may be mistaken but again in my eyes this reaction points us to the root of a socially constructed schizophrenia. This reaction assumes that we stand apart from our thoughts and feelings as some definite entity that can direct them, when it appears to me that the experience of ourselves as ‘the controller’ of thought is just a thought itself. When this thought is no longer there, we as individual personalities have disintegrated.
Internalexpansion 1 year ago
No doubt we as the idea of ourselves can change the way we appear, we can revaluate experiences through memory and reinterpret events to better suit our current situations, but it’s just the same game. We substitute one program for the next and in doing so we stray from a more whole understanding of personality.
Internalexpansion 1 year ago
There is a kind of effortless change I’ve experienced a few times in my life that occurs when I become deeply aware of the root of an issue. One where there is no violence no forcing a pattern to conform to another, but effortless transformation fuelled by understanding. This change I cannot formulate, I can give no program for.
Thank you for sharing your insights Mark
Internalexpansion 1 year ago
@Internalexpansion 'effortless change that occurs when I become deeply AWARE of the root of an issue' - this is very true, and I think you capture the crucial point here, actually the argument I try to put forward is very much in alignment with what you say, by recognizing underlying 'principles' (which simultaneously relieve us of unnecessary stress) we get a glimpse at how much it is a matter of state of mind, and perception... [cont]
almafarag 1 year ago
@almafarag the tricky thing, in my opinion, might be that we tend to lapse back into our habitual, inhibiting patterns, and in order to regain the liberating state that the insight (into the 'principle') affords we have to recognize that 'principle' again and again (through visualization, meditation, exercise, diet, dialogue, etc. etc.) until it becomes the new default (automatized) in our interactions
almafarag 1 year ago