No creator, - Nazism and Eugenics -Dawkins Part 4

[marcotenshi]

@dimthelight Would you require the name of the German Law that was to be enforced for the gassing of people to happen too?

[piusvapor]

Inherited desire to be nice? So if you could remove this gene physically one would lose all ability to be nice. This seems to be the only real way to prove that this proposition is true. I'm sorry but I need proof; making fun of and insulting Christians is not enough for me to be considered an unquestioned authority.

[TomFynn]

@piusvapor Altruism gene: greatergood-dot-berkeley-dot-e­du-slash-article-slash-item-sl­ash-is_there_an_altruism_gene

[S24995]

@marcotenshi Those who adapt best to change should be the slogan used more than survival of the fittest in reference to Darwin's idea.

[marcotenshi]

@S24995 Even that is misleading. Organisms don't evolve. Species do.

[marcotenshi]

@S24995 Even that is misleading. The crocodile species hasn't adapted in millions of years.

[ThirstyDad65]

heil hitler

[Dionysus24779]

Does someone know where I could find the full video of that propaganda clip starting at 0:42 ?

[quagmire444]

@marcotenshi LOL. Do you purposely present false facts to the public and expect us to belive so? There is plenty of evidence that hitler and the nazi regime showed great interest in Darwinism. As they killed the jews they believed they were doing so to speed up the evolutionary process.

[marcotenshi]

@quagmire444 Thats a pretty wide definition of influence given that a basic understanding of evolutionary theory shows precisely why eugenics, and what hitler wanted to do, is a very bad idea.

Origin of Species was on the list to be burned.

So....they got evolution wrong, and didnt want anyone to read the actual account. Hmmmmmm.

[gamesbok]

@quagmire444 Quotes by Hitler showing that he did not accept Darwinian macroevolution:

"The fox remains always a fox, the goose remains a goose, and the tiger

will retain the character of a tiger". - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf,

vol. i, ch. xi

"...nowhere inside a kind

shows such a development as the breadth of the jump , as Man must supposedly

have made, if he has developed from an ape-like state to what he is today."-

26 July 1942 in 'Hitler's Table Talk'

[gamesbok]

@quagmire444 The Nazis banned teaching of Darwin.

Guidelines from Der Bucherie 2:6 (1935), P279

No.6 Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (H�ckel).

6. Schriften weltanschaulichen und lebenskundlichen Charakters, deren Inhalt die falsche naturwissenschaftliche Aufkl�rung eines primitiven Darwinismus und Monismus ist (H�ckel).

The didn't accept Darwin at all.

[gamesbok]

@quagmire444 Perhaps you could supply us with this evidence that Hitler and the Nazis showed great interest in Darwin, and perhaps you can't.

Moses and Joshua were very interested in genocide, but I don't think they read Darwin.

[Kingfillins]

That is incorrect. Hitler was influenced by Darwin. The English translation of Hitlers writing has changed the actual base meaning.

A desire to be nice is there in many spices.

[gamesbok]

@Kingfillins How exactly did the English translation of the Laws banning Darwin change the base meaning?

Guidelines from Der Bucherie 2:6 (1935), P279

No.6 Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (H�ckel).

6. Schriften weltanschaulichen und lebenskundlichen Charakters, deren Inhalt die falsche naturwissenschaftliche Aufkl�rung eines primitiven Darwinismus und Monismus ist (H�ckel).

[bjcc420]

thanks for posting

[TheDarkLordLucifer]

"In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross."

-Adolph Hitler

[STEPHENWRAYSFORD33]

@marcotenshi "Survival of the fittest" was added to later editions I think, Darwin didn't coin the term however. Eugenics and Darwinism was perverted and distored by the Nazi movement to fit with their ideas of racial supremacy.

[Craigipedia]

@marcotenshi

don't speak reason to the people who hate Darwin... they just don't get it

awesome stats though

[marcotenshi]

Survival of the fittest isn't evolution.

Like I said. Lets say someone 'applied' F=MA to push people of cliffs..and suddenly newtonian mechanics is guilty of forming the basis of people being pushed off cliffs?? That doesn't even make sense.

Why does this argument work for evolution?

[Deeprive]

@marcotenshi Survival of the fittest is the basis of evolution. In order for all the species on earth to evolve, the frequency of traits needs to change. This happens by certain genes surviving, and others not as much. This is one of the many ways genes get redestributed

[infectingthecrypts]

I'd like to know how the nazis were applying darwins theories. Where in nature does Zyklon-B exist? If you want real "natural selection" then there has to be a culture change, not some government controlled gas-chambers. People must learn to marry/have sex with people who aren't just "hawt" or a "set of rawkin' tits" but also are fucking idiots.

[DLPBurke]

I do think Dawkins is being a bit decitful here too. Hitler was definately applying "survival of the fittest" and there is no way round that.

[bentothetenthpower]

Don't you mean "survival of the most suggestible?" The Nazi's were not stronger or fitter than anyone else, they were more numerous and obedient. You apparently just think "Aryans" are fittest. Ignorant.

[DLPBurke]

No, I don't "just think" that at all. Do not place words into my mouth. Understood?

[bentothetenthpower]

Not really. What did you mean if not that? In what way was Hitler applying Darwin's theory? BTW I did not mean to offend, just point out what seemed obvious to me.

[Juantanam0]

Teddy Roosevelt loved the idea as well.

[heloizyjhenifer]

Yes and no, he was applying survival of the fittest but the fittest to "what"?

If it was only about pruning large birth defects or several mental illnesses then you don't need Hitler (if he did only that it might have passed unnoticed), Sweden was praciting forced sterilization until 1974 or so.

Also, as a species we need diversity for adaptation, Hitler had no such notion and his idea of how genetics work were simplistic.

[marcotenshi]

Yet the phrase survival of the fittest doesn't appear in Darwins work.

Anyone who understands evolution understands why eugenics if the stupidest idea ever conceived.

End of.

[DLPBurke]

It may be noted however that racial hygienist ideas were far from unique to the Nazi movement. The ideas of social Darwinism were widespread in all western countries in the early 20th century, and the eugenics movement had many followers among educated people, being particularly strong in the United States.

[DLPBurke]

It may be "stupid" but that is what Hitr believed and it is based on evolution. natural selection is not a far cry from that.

[marcotenshi]

How can something be accurately said to be based on something if the logic of that basis is wrong?

Would it not be more accurate to say its based on a misunderstanding of evolution?

[DLPBurke]

no because, it is based on evolution...we know that the fittest survive. That evolution is unkind. The lower species are simply food. The superior win.

This ios the very nature of evolution and Selfish gene. To conclude that it is all based on nonsense is inaccurate.

[marcotenshi]

Evolution isnt any more applicable to culture or society than ANY other scientific theory. If hitler did base his ideology on evolution he did it for no reason that can be justified within evolutionary theory.

[eterna2]

On this planet of ours human culture and civilization are indissolubly bound up with the presence of the Aryan. If he should be ... ...

...

Whoever would dare to raise a profane hand against that highest image of God among His creatures would sin against the bountiful Creator of this marvel and would collaborate in the expulsion from Paradise.

~ Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler

[breedofthe45]

Yesterday we witnessed the destruction of all that we belive in attach importance to,instead of kings with whom we share a blood bond,our deadly enemies rule,the jews,so long as i hold the iron hammer,i shall lead Thule to war,our decipline is germanic descipline,OUR GOD IS WALVATHER,our emblem is ARYAN-the first flame,the SUN,the eagle.. -Adolf Hitler (manuscript untitled,known as  Main Kampf 2nd edition)

1936.

[blaziermissy]

People would do well to study natural selection and to study survival of the fittest. Most people have a fifth grade understanding of it.

We should study up and get rid of the beliefs and myths surrounding these phenomen.

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

Molleen Matsumura:

In my view, humanism relies on reason and compassion. Reason guides our attempt to understand the world about us. Both reason and compassion guide our efforts to apply that knowledge ethically, to understand other people, and have ethical relationships with other people.

[johnnyk2112]

Margaret Sanger, a rabid eugenicist, started Planned Parenthood, hoping to eliminate "colored" people.

[mchchicago78]

thank you. i did not know that fact.

cheers

[mrgeorgegenius]

over and over the eugenicists roll this rock up the hill and over ond over it rolls down,.often on them.

[mrgeorgegenius]

the problem is that the masses will not dedicate themselves unselfishly to the production and protection of an elite while extermating their own posterity.

[mrgeorgegenius]

selection must not be left to chance for chance is cruel,capricious and ,all to often,expensive but must be instead led by the kindly elite Harvard professors ,British aristocrats,Serbian psychiatrists,Aryans and so on.

[Tleilaxu0]

Seeing as many of the greatest athletes of the world are coloured, putting aryans on your list of superiours seem rather stupid.

[311bmurr]

thats whats called a scientific dictatorship there r no kind elite look at history if u give them that power they will kill us all anyans too they will kill anyone thats a threat to their power and control

[mrgeorgegenius]

in the struggle for food,those who have an advantage inherited pass and prevail the advantage on to their children who prevail even more the english aristocracy happened.

[mrgeorgegenius]

eugenics is dedicated to the idea that all men are created un equal.and food is running out.

[loturos]

strawman argument. modern eugenics is about genetic engineering intended to remove defective illness causing genes so that those who would have been born with them can live better lives. playing god? fuck god. ask him why he didnt remove those genes himself.

[311bmurr]

modern eugenics is about killing 90 to 95 percent of the earths population and leaving only the very very rich elite alive and if that doesn't disprove god i don't know what will

[93alvbjo]

HAHAHAHA

[DiabSoulBooker]

that's probably one of the smartest things i've ever heard. it's true though.. fuck god... we're just fixing his stupid fuckin mistakes. if he was better at his job ( even though anyone with a brain knows it's all bullshit ) then we wouldn't have to be doing his work for him.

[petfoodonly]

Selective breading of humans in principle is a great idea. The problem is deciding what 'good' aspects we want to select for.

People who attempted eugenics had amazingly stupid definitions of what they wanted to select for and against. I.e. blond hair is good and Jewishness is bad. That was VERY silly.

But why not define good traits and bad traits better than that? Like, intelligence is good and propensity to heart disease and cancer are bad?

[simplybornhuman]

We can still have Eugenics through one-child policy for the poor, abortions, and things which don't do any permanent damage to individuals. IVF, Designer babies, Artificial Wombs, Cloning, freeing up the limitations to Sperm donation and making it more public, giving tax breaks for DNA analysis to put on ID's, cellphone DNA analysis (planning couples could review what their children would look like, and see the genetics of their mate),babies In Work, pressuring the rich through tax incentives...