I realize there are hundreds of comments already, but...
Well said, if not terribly concisely. :P
I find that the problem with objectification isn't viewing people as objects - because we have physical bodies, and those bodies are objects. The problem is viewing people as MERELY objects; it is the reduction of people, in all their complex glory, to a body, an outfit, and some makeup.
I care about the way I dress. I care how other people react to my appearance. But I am more than just that.
It's not you who has to change the way you dress, and it isn't men either who need to change the way they act towards a woman who dresses up like a slut. False dichotomy. It is actually you who needs to change the way you act towards a man who pinches your ass when you are dressed like a slut. If that happens, just smile and take it.
I disagree with this video because what you are essentially saying is you wish to shift the burden of responsibility for appropriate behavior onto the man. So if you dress like a whore and the man likes it, you hate the fact he has objectified you. But this is purely irrational, because you initiated the whorishness.
I like this video. Not only was your rebuttal excellent but some of your further extrapolations about men and further out the power of sexuality was excellent. Thank you. Though at the risk of sounding like one of those "insipid women" you mentioned I love your hair. How did you do that?
(part 1) Wow I love this video so much. One of the things you were talking about was what objectification is defined as exactly. I could really identify with that as many times, even when running charity events, I have guys only comment on my body and completely ignore the cause or the message. And also the idea that you can want to be sexy without caring what every man thinks of you.. absolutely! I don't give a flying fuck if guy x, y, or z gets a stiffy from me.
More than one guy smiled at you lass. You forget that men are basically dumbasses when it comes to sex. If you were talking about how to get money power or bitches then we would not give a fuck about how you look! In this case however we cant help but ignore what you say so we can think about your good looks. It is not you, it is men. Now there are such things as manners, but bottom line, we are all basically just attracted. Yes we have a one track mind for the most part.
@BoundlessEyes This is the part where I say: He has already slept with you plenty, you are not a shiny anymore, of course he is going to pay attention to what you have to say. All that we craft is simply to tame our animal instinct, our innate nature. A man's common ancestor is 60,000 years old (genetics prove it) and he probably had one principal advantage over all other men: he was knocking up everything within reach. A woman's oldest ancestor is 160,0000 y.o. We basically outbred other men.
@BoundlessEyes "Of course he's not going to admit it to you, he wants to have sex with you.". This quote epitomises the view of a man that objectifies women due to the inherent lack of honesty in communicating his attraction. When a man can communicate his attraction clearly his desire will not be taken as objectification.
@BoundlessEyes What do you think about this? E.g. "great tits", "pert ass", "i'd love to get you naked". I think these compliments are well received if the attraction is voiced in a sex positive way. The point here is that there is a difference between objectification and inappropriateness.
Interestingly, I think it is feminism that has caused a rise in the objectification of women due to the perpetuation of the belief that "women don't like sex".
More than one guy smiled at you lass. You forget that men are basically dumbasses when it comes to sex. If you were talking about how to get money power or bitches then we would not give a fuck about how you look! In this case how ever we cant help to ignore what you say so we can think about your good looks. It is not you, it is men in general. Now there are such things as manners, but bottom line, we are all basically just attracted. Yes we have 1 track minds for the most part.
More than one guy smiled at you lass. You forget that men are basically dumbasses when it comes to sex. If you were talking about how to get money power or bitches then we would not give a fuck about how you look! In this case how ever we cant help to ignore what you say so we can think about your good looks. It is not you, it is men in general.
Oh my god yes! I've been on this train of though for a while, but haven't been able to express it quite as well as you now did. I've also been worried about being branded as a chauvinist trying to justify myself if I didn't formulate it properly.
Oh, and you're totally rocking the 40's-50's look.
Also, to present catch 22 you describe doesn't require the 'consent' of men to be presented. If a woman wore something revealing or overtly sexually expressive was then indignant when they get a reaction that expresses interest (likely based upon said display), it is a catch 22. Whatever the response, the catch exists. Cries of objectification vary with the reaction of the receiver to the method of expression. If she's interested, she's less likely to feel objectified. If not, more likely.
Objectification = automatically bad as a false notion. You go to the grocery store and you want your cashier to be good at what she does. She's (largely) a transactional object. Her interests and personal life are not necessary. In the realm of sex/attraction most men and women just objectify based upon different criteria (which can vary somewhat person to person). Men tend to objectify based upon what attracts them to women, women do as well, but what attracts is different.
Initially it may seem ironic, to be drawn to the '40's aesthetic, when, as you said, women were living at the height of objectification. But, setting aside the bit you do for yourself, isn't it also that you can look back and think to yourself how alluring the appearance of everyone was and wonder what it would be like to let them live with more confidence and the less oppressive objectification you think you live under. Isn't it like a gift to them and their memories. Just a thought.
Will was a genius & I find this quote shoots down all marxists, neo-cons, radical feminists & other people who are obsessed with ideology and try to live their life completely to the limited words of some "philosopher"
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. "
Do as your happiness would wish you do not some other who if you were to lose your sight, touch, hearing, smell and taste would cease to exist. All you would be left with is yourself.
Here's a question, would you like having sex with yourself? I wouldn't like having sex with myself. I think that highlights the whole illusion behind it. If you can keep it up then great, but it is an illusion.
@land9631 I don't think it's possible for most people to have sex with themselves... hermaphrodites, perhaps.
If you mean masturbation, sure, I touch myself. I'm not exactly sitting around all day with the curtains closed, however. Not a be-all-and-end-all. Have lots of other 'interests' =).
The only way that we can not be living for lies is if we work to prevent lives.So to the dedicated antinatalist it is about using what time you have to do the only real meaningful thing with it- preventing future lives.You're correct,both the internet and sex can be distractions.But we do put entirely too much focus and meaning into sex and love.If it's easy to get rid of why not?I do kind of scorn it.I scorn the thing I thought had meaning that just shows me all the flaws of human psychology.
@land9631 Condoms and adoption mean that I can hold a soft-line antinatalist stance without any issue. As I understand it VHEMT isn't anti-sex, it's anti-reproduction. And luckily I live in an era of extensive reproductive freedoms (in the West) and can therefore shag my life away happily without it becoming the business of antinatalists.
I think that you can look at sex and love as harmless fun, or you can see how much shit it causes for everyone.Can you deny that it's a big big distraction, perhaps the biggest waste of time there is?And if everyone was sterilized to not want it, I think it would solve a lot of problems.I think people could be their fullest self in that they would be focused on how to fix the world. It is harmless fun that has huge costs that I believe we'd all be better not to want. I don't want to want it.
@land9631 I don't think anything which I enjoy is a waste of time -that's what life is for. There is no objective meaning, it's about using what time you have in a way which makes you glad to be alive. And for me, sex is part of that.
I'm not distracted by sex - I have sex regularly when I want it and then go about my day. If you ask me, the internet is the distraction.
You're entitled to feel differently about it though, obviously.
The bottom line is that you are putting importance on your physicality. You are placing value in a stupid place. We are all victims of stupidity. And sex is stupid addiction. We should all be sterilized from birth so that we don't want to have sex and don't have to distract ourselves with all of this bullshit. And we can focus on what matters. Which is not lipstick and being pretty and painting your nails.
@land9631 What's important is that we don't all feel or respond the same way to things as you do, and neither should we want everyone to. Sex is harmless fun (sounds like your feelings on that are a little repressed, to me).
I was sitting in a pub once with a few "tough guy" co-workers and my ex-girlfriend was swooning over a hot guy that walked in and i said to her, i can see why your checking him out, "he's a fine looking fella". The amount of abuse i got off the "tough guys" in my company. lol. All of a sudden i was a closet homosexual. See, even men can't win with other men let alone women. I wonder if this adonis minding his own business felt "objectified", probably not lol.
@monogirl3 But if "He's flying by in a car" then it's something that happens in a split second. Are you that freaked out by a car horn, just avoid rush hour traffic lol!. C'mon, why do you feel negative emotions. Seriously, is your life going to be adversely affected by a comment that you can barely hear, bear in mind that the car in flying past you. Grow a thicker skin girl!
@StuOH A passing comment in the street happens in a split second too, why is that relevant when considering my reception to it? I can't believe you would need an explanation as to why one would feel unease having vulgarities barked at them. Unease is my gut reaction. I'm not being irrational or overly sensitive so you can keep your advice. If it happens I can write them off as an eejit & go on about my business but I'm NOT indifferent to being treated primarily as sexual prey to be jeered at.
I always rather liked male fashion from the 40s. It's the hats...
I've always been puzzled when being told that finding a woman attractive is objectifying her. It's all in the context. "You are beautiful" is one thing, "I'd fuck that" is quite another. The way I see it if I can compliment a woman (or a man for that matter, I'm comfortable enough with my sexuality to do that) without it being threatening or demeaning I'm good.
@Boundlesseyes Don't get me wrong, you make some pertinent points in your video but it's still a question of how we deal with other peoples ignorance and as much as agree with what you are saying, in my opinion it's trivial in the greater scheme of things and just puts men and women on either sides of the track. Yes "objectification", it happens but not nearly as much as some women like to think ;-).
If a women is cornered by a group of men who are making obscene gestures or remarks then i can understand why any women would be upset or terrified but let's be honest here, 99% of the time it's just a wolf whistle or lewd comment from a car window from an idiot trying to impress his mates! Why would you be upset by it. It hardly warrants a second thought. Let it go, move on!
@BoundlessEyes. Nah, it's my experience that most men don't leer at women and make inappropriate remarks but there are a few guys that will always "objectify women". Just be smart about it and don't take it to heart. Women have made lurid comments about me but i never get offended. I just think it's funny, not objectionable at all, usually with alcohol taken. More important things to be worrying about in my opinion.
@monogirl3 If a guy tells you to "get your rat out" just tell him that your pet mice is at home, you don't carry him with you. C'mon, use your head. What's the worst that can happen, "you get offended". Don't get offended. It's just a brainless comment from a jumped up moron who doesn't know any better. Bare in mind that it's usually loutish teenagers or 20 somethings just passing the time of day who make these comments. Try to put it in perspective and laugh it off.
@StuOH I use wit when possible but when he's flying by in a car, obviously any reply would be in vain.
Listen, I'm not saying I lose sleep, I'm merely saying it evokes immediate negative feelings. I'm well aware most men don't do it aswell. You might feel complimented, but I cannot garner any gratification from objectification delivered like that, it simply makes me feel less of a person in that moment. I'd add just because I find it distinctly unfunny doesn't mean I lack a sense of humour.
The very same women who feel objectified when a man makes a lurid remark would be upset if they didn't get any attention from men but they say "I'm not just a pretty face". Boys will be boys and feminist women are misguided if they feel offended by a throwaway comment with sexual overtones. Get a sense of humour and take it with a pinch of salt. Well thought through unbiased video though, us men have a brain and it's not located in our underpants! at least not with the guys i know.
@StuOH No one denies that compliments (even those of a sexual nature) can be nice or that throw away comments can't be treated as such - but crude remarks from strangers is embarassing & often intimidating for me personally. It's common where I live for guys shout out 'get yer rat out', their car horn making your heart near fail. How could you not feel degraded by that? It genuinely, without thought, triggers a negative emotional response in me. I fail to see how I'm misguided because of this.
I don't know why some women get pissed off when a guy wolf-whistles or remarks on her appearance, ie- you look hot! A young inebriated girl told me i was hot just last week when i was just walking down the street minding my own business, who cares. Was i being objectified, i couldn't care less. Actually, i just take it as a compliment as most men do when a women makes a positive comment on my appearance even if there are sexual overtones. But some women get the hump, why oh why! Silly stuff IMO.
@StuOH I think your experience is different from that of most women's, and a wise man listens and learns, rather than assuming everyone thinks and feels the way he does.
Although I'm not entirely sure I agree with the title itself, I do agree with most of what you have to say here; by the way, the Forties look definitely looks good on you :)
(1) I've just watched your vid from 2010... and it makes so much more sense than this one does. What I think is significant is that you're new attitude makes it much easier for you to fit in with the dominant culture. And this is a process which I've seen before. Someone starts off with a genuinely radical attitude which could threaten the status-quo... and they get a lot of shit for that. So, over time, they adapt to the pressure. (cont...)
(2) But obviously they can't just say, "Yeah, I caved" - so they come up with a whole new attitude, which makes them feel okay about fitting in. // Now maybe you're going to say I don't know you (which is true), or that I'm generalising... but being able to look at society and draw general conclusions is one of the things which helps us fight the system. Seeing ourselves as unique individuals who just sort of do stuff, and if people don't like it, that's their problem... well, that doesn't help.
(3) It goes back to that quote from Marx, apparently, saying that our culture is created by economic pressure. And I've noticed something similar in another of your vids, where you said you were going to get a job as a manager (or whatever it was) just for a couple of years to pay off your student debts. And maybe that was alright, you said. Which maybe it is. I'm not trying to give you a hard time for compromising.
(4) But I mention that as another example of how economics forces us to change our ideas... AND THEN we naturally come up with some way of justifying what we're doing as "probably alright, really." In contrast, if you'd left uni and gone into a feminist building collective which was 50/50 male and female - like what people did in ye olde days - you might have been more likely to respond to sexism by organising as a collective to confront it.
(5) Basically, all I'm saying is that I see a lot of this kind of attitude on YT, and I think people should maybe consider if it really is just a co-incidence that their ideas are changing in a way which happens to make it easier for them to fit in. And a major part of that is a the subjective-individualism which comes from having had so little experience of collective activities. Like, how many people have actually been in a strike involving hundreds of people... and won?
(6) - People under 30, that is // Or to put it another way - you young 'uns are like really losing the plot. You think you're re-inventing yourselves, but to me it looks like you're just finding ways to justify fitting in. // Anyway, as I mentioned earlier, I don't know you - but everyone else on YouTube just blurts out their opinions, so I thought I'd give it a try too :-)
@mickmle1 You've spammed my comments section with so many comments here that I'm not going to bother reading them. But from the first one I'm taking from this that you think I'm 'selling out'. But as I told you in this video, I was sitting around the house with the curtains closed when I happened to see Loreleila's video. What social pressure is there sitting in my bedroom on my own?
People grow and change. I say in this video that some of those ideas hold true, whilst others do not. [cont]
@BoundlessEyes I find this idea very patronizing - I'm being strong and original as long as I agree with you, but if I don't I'm caving in to pressure? You don't accredit me with enough strength and originality to stand on my own to feet and come to my own conclusions unless I come to those conclusions you have drawn?
I have enough strength to ignore your opinion on my motivations. Here - here's me ignoring your opinion.
@BoundlessEyes - That's classic - If I have an idea that's complex enough to require more than 50 words... that makes it spam. Welcome to YouTube-World. And if I criticise your pov that's just cos I want you to agree with me. My opinion, your opinion - how can anyone know which is more valid? Maybe by referring to the objective context of the capitalist system in which we live? Hell no, that's sooooo 70's. Anyway, I'll bugger off now - you're obviously not listening... which is your right :-)
@RichardRich1989 Demonstrate to me how I don't wish to take responsibility?
Yeah, a real man takes orders and kills who he's told to kill. Usually for resources. Can't wait to be one of them.
11% of the British Armed Forces are women. They are PREVENTED from fighting on the front line. Most people in the army don't fight 'to be men', they fight for scholarships and pay they couldn't otherwise have accessed.
The forty's style - love it! (Only, they didn't dare show a bra at that time, I'd think, or they'd be called whores). In the way a woman dresses, she expresses her artistic nature. It's not only for men, but the way she wants to look, and for other women as well.
If a man is well-dressed, and looks attractive, I listen even more attentively to what he has to say. This is the opposite of objectification.
@dewinthemorning Haha, yeah, the bra is a bit of artistic license.
I can't really think of any time I objectify men. I'm not really into pictures of topless hunks or anything like that... Even when I see men in porn I end up thinking 'wonder how much he gets paid? Wonder if he actually fancies this woman?' lol. Porn is not for over-thinkers.
@BoundlessEyes I don't objectify men, either. I can't be aroused only by the way a man looks, that's why I've never been 'in love' with any film star.
I think objectification reveals paucity of higher order feelings and sensitivities in a person.
@Eugenics2020 I'm guessing someone with a grudge from another comments section. But it's cool, because this is my channel and I can just un-spam them.
I enjoy experimenting with make up as an art form and mainly to express myself and make myself feel better, it's nice when someone compliments how it looks, but if it's something I enjoy doing I don't feel I'm objectifying myself. So I have to disagree about the make up tutorial videos. You should check out Klair de lys's channel, now she really does incorporate art into make up!
@PuffyAmiYumi You were one of the women I was apologising to, really. I didn't get it, and now I'm getting it more... Still not big on make-up tutorials in general, but I've found some Forties hair and make-up vids which I have enjoyed recently.
@BoundlessEyes Oh it's fine, sorry I misunderstood you, I get a bit defensive about the topic of make up and clothes, like what you said in your video, how some people assume they're doing it for this and that reason other than their own enjoyment of just doing it, however their is of course an element of it involving attraction, which is undeniable, but not the main reason, for myself anyway. Yeah Klair hasn't done any 40's looks but she's SO good at FX make up too like Terminator! Just wow!
@AlvinSawdust Lol, sort of missing the point of the video - this is for myself. If I was to adjust it to please you (a man) it wouldn't be me any more.
great video and well done. Its a hard thing to work out how to talk about this, I expected to do a video on it this weekend but I found it so very challenging to think about what I wanted to say as well as take into account how people would react to what I said. I do like the balance that you use to show you are aware of the difficulty of such a topic. I hope to join you on this topic soon and thank you for helping me focus my ideas. yours Earl
There doesn't need to be a draft for women because there is not draft for men currently. Should a large enough war occur, then by all means draft women into combat roles. If women are truly equal , then they should have the right to be cannon fodder just as much as men. Now if this did occur, watch how many feminists would reverse course.
@BoundlessEyes LOL, i love it when feminist BS is exposed. I wasn't referring to you individually, I'm talking about women in general, I suppose American women, since we're more likely to fight a big war and you Brits seem to fear war (translation, came to your senses).
@RichardRich1989 Exactly, Chivalry & Feminism cannot co-exist, trying to make them do so only creates an environment where men become Captain Save a Hoes. Chivalry assumes that women are not able to do certain things and therefore the man must step up. Feminism assumes women and men are equal and that women can do almost anything men can. If a woman can do anything a man can, then it becomes unnecessary for that man to be the provider , protector and financier for women.
@theinnerbadger I know, it's pretty mad. I got a response to a video from four months ago called 'Is This All There Is?' and some of the things he was quoting me as saying were like "Woah, I said that? Jesus, I was that bad...?"
Might be when the days draw in again I regress a bit, but without the weed I'm bound to be much better...
Who were you listening to at the start of this video? (I'm sure there's been some talk about it in the comments below, but I honestly just don't want to comb through all of them.)
"My political view is not undermined by how I dress" - ahh, you are so quotable sometimes.
Love this video for how balanced it is. One of my favourite things about you is that you're so comfortable talking about things that contradict each other... like you're attraction to the 40s/50s despite radical feminism, and admitting that you get caught up in the same human pattern seeking mindstuff.... because real life is complex and things contradict. It's refreshing. (and you do look amazing today)
@velvetporcupine Thanks, that's the nicest thing anyone's said in this comment section!
Yeah, it's weird that a lot of people think simply making a youtube video is your way of saying - "I'm perfect and right about everything and you're wrong". I just assume that everyone can see I'm no genius, I'm just thinking aloud, and I welcome counter-arguments.
The more I think about things the more I realise how utterly un-knowable things are. It makes my mind boggle when I think about it for too long!
You might want to watch out calling yourself a "radical feminist", look at the treatment Lori Adorable got for (allegedly) "misusing" the term...LOL
And I think you misunderstood the point of the original a bit, but so it goes, and you made some excellent points...and yes, men are responsible for how they act. That being said, as Loreleila's point originally was, women should not expect to be ignored when dressing more openly, something you acknowledged too, of course. =)
@BobChaos23 Haha, who's afraid of the big bad angry school of rad-fem?
I totally straw-manned the fuck out of Loreleila accidentally, so I've apologised. I seem to have a terrible habit of doing that... perhaps I should just talk to myself on youtube and leave other people out of it because I seem to cause offence whenever I try to venture off of my own channel...
I get a lot of what she was saying and agree with it in the main. Devil's advocate, I guess. I think she likes that though.
I like the main thrust of this video. It drives me up a wall to hear arguments that equate male sexual response/attraction with sexual objectification of women. And yes, men are not simple creatures, whatever people want to think. A penis is not an on/off switch.
I have always been interested in the idea of a woman feeling sexy as an internal state that doesn't relate to other people. By definition, doesn't feeling sexy mean that you attract attention, particularly from men?
@Friendough I think that's why I mainly rejected the idea of sexiness unless it was in private with a person I felt close to and respected by (although I've had a few one-night-stands with varying outcomes emotionally, so not always). So then I dressed down and didn't bother, and it just had the effect of damaging my self-image - I called myself an 'ugly chick'. I'm really happy with the '40s thing because it feels like me and like I'm in control of my own sexuality again. IDK if it makes sense.
@BoundlessEyes But definitely I can feel sexy without male admiration. Partly because I'm bi - women's admiration makes me feel sexy - and partly because a lot of the time I equate male admiration with porn/perfection and end up feeling inadequate. Ultimately sexiness probably always starts from within, from self-acceptance. That's much sexier than a complete stranger thinking he'd like to 'tap that' without knowing me at all.
@BoundlessEyes Gah, third comment - I'm rambling but it's interesting.
Also, I find all kinds of things erotic - the way things feel to the touch, curves in nature, unrealised sexual tension, some music, storms, the list is endless. So for me sexiness is more than the visual approval of the opposite sex.
I have often heard women say that, when it comes to when, confidence is sexy. I suppose this works the other way as well. You equate feeling sexy with feeling confident. However, being sexy, for men, is a different thing. What we consider sexy is primarily visual, and we are NEVER allowed to feel sexy ourselves, at least as heterosexuals. So I can see a divide here, a miscommunication. I do think it leads men into thinking that we are in a Catch 22.
Of course, the same principles apply to men. We have to come to feel comfortable in our own skin, with ourselves, and appreciate our own bodies whether or not we get approval from women. I have always felt that men who feel the rules of dating and attraction are unfair should just refuse to play along. But it is hard for many people to take themselves out of the dating game. For men, there is often nothing but loneliness awaiting them.
@Friendough How can a woman make a man feel sexy, in your opinion?
My boyfriend thinks he's hot shit, lol. Sometimes I have to fight with him for mirror space. But it's probably bravado, he's probably a little insecure, so I'd love to know what you think I can do to make him feel sexy.
Well, you know your boyfriend better than I do (which is not at all!) I think the allure of noire, the 20's, 30's, and 40's, is the illusion that men were men, and women were women, meaning that women knew what they wanted, and men knew how to provide it. Of course, it's crap. Men and women have always had our insecurities.
What do I think? Fuck, I like the librarian look. Honestly, women in bondage is hot as hell. Casual touching, looking away whenever he gets close...
But this is after you have already established a relationship. At that point, playing with the power dynamics and cultural archetypes provides for some very creative experiences.
The ultimate sexual attraction for any man (IMHO) is the virginal whore. That is, a woman who is willing to experience anything, but only for her one man. To create this fantasy, you need the right amount of flirting and then running away. It's hard to do. I only recommend it for experienced couples.
On the subject of less overtly sexual ways to make a man feel sexy: Asking for his opinion on things can make him feel important. Giving compliments on things he has provided or decisions he has made will give him confidence. Small, innocuous touches, such as touching his elbow, shoulder, or the edge of his hand will do the same.
I'm all for women having an equal amount of power as men, the only problem is that women often want the additional power but without the responsibility. The best way to destroy feminism is to give women full equality.
@Jaybird196 Yeah, fantastic album actually. 3 discs of her 'finest studio recordings'. But Gloomy Sunday isn't on there unless it's under another name, and that's my favourite.
Which radfem blogs do you read? What are your opinions on some of their, IMO, outrageous statements? From what I've read on the radfem blogs, I find it shocking that you of all people, is a radfem. Almost every contributor on the radfem blogs I've come across are super anti-PIV, anti-reproduction, hetero-critical lesbians (actual self-proclaimed lesbians.) And without over exaggerating here, I think a lot of the contributors in the radfem community actually do hate men.
@Byfield I don't read rad-fem blogs. I consider myself to be 'radical' because I actually want to change something about current situation, and whenever I say that everyone shouts 'RADIKAL!1!!' If radical is wanting things to change, I'm radical and proud.
I see no problem with hetero-critical lesbians - they deserve a voice like everyone else. Man-haters have no place in feminism[equality], but some women are drawn to it after they have been raped/repeatedly beaten by some men, so it's cloudy.
@vxbinaca Thanks. =) Got four new subs where normally I lose four or five per video. We'll see how long they last when I DO button up my top. Ironic in the context of this video.
additionally, if you ask me i wouldnt call you a radical feminist-i guess it depends on the definition. If you mean radical feminist as one who is radical to society at large, i would say no, but if you mean radical feminist as radical to other feminists, then i would agree :D at least radical to the majority of feminists that i hear about. Maybe most of your opinions represent those of most feminists? always hard to tell with limited experience and lack of information. <----thats waffling :D
@peteheatb3 I'd say radical to society at large. I'm not going to bomb the embassy or anything, but I would make major changes given the option.
The more I learn about it, the more I realise there really isn't any one opinion which is common to all feminists, so we have to default to 'advocating the equality of women with men' and interpret from there.
Don't believe what you hear. There are some nutters, but feminists have to be one of the most straw-manned groups around.
@BoundlessEyes completely agree. As far as various opinions go, it reminds me alot of humanism. A humanist can support such a wide variety of opinions-its pretty much impossible to constrict humanism to a couple positions.
Feminism challenges the status quo-as such alot of stupid people will exaggerate positions feminists hold in order to scare off the majority. I see it quite alot with atheism as well-fox news is brilliant at straw-manning atheism. Sucks, what can i say lol.
ok i'm confused. it's ok for women to dress in a way that says she's looking for sex, but it's not ok for a man to desire that same woman only for sex? if a woman just wants to have a one night stand with a random guy, does he still have to respect her on an intellectual level? is it ok that she only wants him for sex? or does she have to respect him on an intellectual level as well? is wrong if they both objectify each other and only want sex from each other?
@Cuddlebunzzzz No, IMO it's perfectly fine for a man to desire a woman for sex. But there are ways of approaching her which don't include honking, shouting, touching, etc. Such as striking up a conversation and seeing where it leads. Responding politely if she tells you she's not interested. It's ok if she wants him for sex too, but she should respect if he wants something deeper and not toy with him. It's not my business what 'they' do. This is about my personal preference.
@BoundlessEyes but if a man only wants a woman for sex, or vice versa, isn't that objectification? even if they do talk politely, is it wrong if the whole time they're just thinking "he/she's hot, can't wait to tap that," and everything they say is an attempt to get in the other's pants? is objectification always wrong or is it only wrong when it's done it a rude or vulgar way (such as shouting)?
@Cuddlebunzzzz I think it's only wrong when it's done in a dishonest way. If he tells her - 'I love you, can't wait to meet the parents' etc. purely to have sex with her then it's wrong. If he says, after a few introductory sentences, "I hope this doesn't offend you, but I think you're gorgeous and I'm wondering if you'd like to come back to my place?" then he's giving her the option to make fully-informed decision and respecting her right to decline.
@BoundlessEyes well i always hear people going on about how objectification is terrible in all contexts. but in this video it sounds to me like you're saying it's ok for a woman to present herself as a sexual object in order to attract sex, yet it's still wrong for a man to view that woman as merely a sexual object. perhaps i'm misunderstanding what objectification is. i don't think objectifying someone is the same as dehumanizing them, which is what rapists do. but maybe i'm wrong.
@Cuddlebunzzzz Nah, I'm saying that there's nothing wrong with a woman who just wants sex. But she's still that - a person who wants sex. She's not an object for sex.
@BoundlessEyes then i'm confused about what objectification is. i admittedly objectify women all the time (or i think i do). when i'm out and about and a woman with a nice body passes me, all i care about at that time is how good her body looks, not what she thinks. but at the same time i know that doesn't give me the right to just grab her or disrespect her in anyway, and i keep those naughty thoughts to myself. i realize shes a person, but at that moment all i think of her is "nice ass" (cont)
@BoundlessEyes (cont) i also don't always view all women in that way, i only think of women in that context when i'm having no interaction with them outside of glancing them over while they pass by me (and hoping they don't notice me doing it). if she were to stop and talk to me then i'd immediately shift my focus to what she's saying. so is that not objectification, or is it a scenario in which it's not a bad thing? or is it still wrong for me to think that way, from a feminist perspective?
i remember ages ago you gave zomgitscris a bollocking for wearing a bikini in holiday montage or something. then there was a shit load of boring drama. has your opinion on that changed?
and since i have permission to say so, you look damn good.
@BornUnderABadSign89 Yeah, I had that sort of thing in mind. I still wasn't being a misogynist at the time, that whole Peach part was bullshit, but I was being a knob about the bikini because I thought it reflected badly on me what she did, which is fucking stupid.
@MensRifleAssociation Nah, my self is tricksy and multi-faceted. Each time I think I've pinned it down it flits away to another corner. But I do feel better about my appearance than I did sitting around all morning researching techniques to disguise a lazy eyelid. =)
Would there be justification with the position that the purpose of dressing sexy, feminine and putting on the slap is to raise oneself on the social ladder than would otherwise be the case. To gain status with women in the main and extra male attention is merely a consequence of this?
@volnay853 I'd almost love that to be true but I doubt it. I'm not sure most women think the way I do about it...
I will say though that there have been times where women in my uni house were talking for hours about hair and make-up and I felt left out because I didn't give a fuck. And sometimes I wish I had more female friends, and my refusal to do that shit until recently might have had something to do with it. Loreleila definitely made some good points about mainstream male-friendly beauty..
I don't see why people would turn to youtube for sexual gratification. Don't they know about porn? You're very pretty, but I'm here to listen to your point of view, not to ogle you.
I liked and favourited this by the way. Really well said. :)
@BoundlessEyes nooooo it was abit more then that lol it was in an interview and she said something about feminism and that how feminism should be something you feel sexy about wearing and
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You look very nice, I love the 40s look. Great video btw.
InTylerWeTrust84 3 days ago
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InTylerWeTrust84 3 days ago
Great video, and you do look very lovely!
honeyortarrr 2 weeks ago
I just watched one of your earlier depressive videos. What a massive change! Awesome!
louea380 3 weeks ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Video aside. Love the vintage 1920's look and music.
sexyloser1128 1 month ago
You make a very good point. I don't know where these irrational feminists are,
Apocolypse786 2 months ago
I realize there are hundreds of comments already, but...
Well said, if not terribly concisely. :P
I find that the problem with objectification isn't viewing people as objects - because we have physical bodies, and those bodies are objects. The problem is viewing people as MERELY objects; it is the reduction of people, in all their complex glory, to a body, an outfit, and some makeup.
I care about the way I dress. I care how other people react to my appearance. But I am more than just that.
ohnobluescreen 2 months ago
It's not you who has to change the way you dress, and it isn't men either who need to change the way they act towards a woman who dresses up like a slut. False dichotomy. It is actually you who needs to change the way you act towards a man who pinches your ass when you are dressed like a slut. If that happens, just smile and take it.
shmiggen 3 months ago
I disagree with this video because what you are essentially saying is you wish to shift the burden of responsibility for appropriate behavior onto the man. So if you dress like a whore and the man likes it, you hate the fact he has objectified you. But this is purely irrational, because you initiated the whorishness.
shmiggen 3 months ago
When you dress up like a whore, then you will be treated as such.
shmiggen 3 months ago
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"What makes you think I give a fuck about what you think?"
Because you are making this video?
shmiggen 3 months ago
Those guys who said they jack.off to you must be lying. There is no way any guy could get wood from looking at you.
shmiggen 3 months ago
I loved the music in the background. Great video.
mmhmmmificate 4 months ago
What is your position on Slutwalk comrade? And why am I still blocked after I apologized? =(
CharemanNuke 5 months ago
fugly attention whore
Onyemeachi 5 months ago
Long videos are great, so I can listen, but play Pokémon at the same time.
I'm now subbed to you. Excellent video, I don't find one point I disagree with :)
QueenTox 5 months ago
I like this video. Not only was your rebuttal excellent but some of your further extrapolations about men and further out the power of sexuality was excellent. Thank you. Though at the risk of sounding like one of those "insipid women" you mentioned I love your hair. How did you do that?
NicoleAgent 5 months ago
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You need to lighten up!
htheprince 5 months ago
I don't understand, how do I achieve satisfactory objectification of someone?
bysslhe 5 months ago
(part 2) We should be able to exist in a context outside of sexual attraction and without being picked apart for our looks alone.
MakingTheMetalBand 5 months ago
(part 1) Wow I love this video so much. One of the things you were talking about was what objectification is defined as exactly. I could really identify with that as many times, even when running charity events, I have guys only comment on my body and completely ignore the cause or the message. And also the idea that you can want to be sexy without caring what every man thinks of you.. absolutely! I don't give a flying fuck if guy x, y, or z gets a stiffy from me.
MakingTheMetalBand 5 months ago
if objectification is a real 'problem' then women are the primary objectifiers
Eugenepwnsyou1 6 months ago
More than one guy smiled at you lass. You forget that men are basically dumbasses when it comes to sex. If you were talking about how to get money power or bitches then we would not give a fuck about how you look! In this case however we cant help but ignore what you say so we can think about your good looks. It is not you, it is men. Now there are such things as manners, but bottom line, we are all basically just attracted. Yes we have a one track mind for the most part.
PETEYPABLO1977 6 months ago
@PETEYPABLO1977 My boyfriend was reading over my shoulder and thinks that you should speak for yourself. =)
This is where you say something along the lines of "Of course he's not going to admit it to you, he wants to have sex with you."
BoundlessEyes 6 months ago
@BoundlessEyes This is the part where I say: He has already slept with you plenty, you are not a shiny anymore, of course he is going to pay attention to what you have to say. All that we craft is simply to tame our animal instinct, our innate nature. A man's common ancestor is 60,000 years old (genetics prove it) and he probably had one principal advantage over all other men: he was knocking up everything within reach. A woman's oldest ancestor is 160,0000 y.o. We basically outbred other men.
PETEYPABLO1977 6 months ago
@BoundlessEyes "Of course he's not going to admit it to you, he wants to have sex with you."
Your reply was correct lmao....
revemupman 6 months ago
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tumpshie24 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
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louea380 3 weeks ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@BoundlessEyes "Of course he's not going to admit it to you, he wants to have sex with you.". This quote epitomises the view of a man that objectifies women due to the inherent lack of honesty in communicating his attraction. When a man can communicate his attraction clearly his desire will not be taken as objectification.
louea380 3 weeks ago in playlist Uploaded videos
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@BoundlessEyes What do you think about this? E.g. "great tits", "pert ass", "i'd love to get you naked". I think these compliments are well received if the attraction is voiced in a sex positive way. The point here is that there is a difference between objectification and inappropriateness.
Interestingly, I think it is feminism that has caused a rise in the objectification of women due to the perpetuation of the belief that "women don't like sex".
louea380 3 weeks ago in playlist Uploaded videos
More than one guy smiled at you lass. You forget that men are basically dumbasses when it comes to sex. If you were talking about how to get money power or bitches then we would not give a fuck about how you look! In this case how ever we cant help to ignore what you say so we can think about your good looks. It is not you, it is men in general. Now there are such things as manners, but bottom line, we are all basically just attracted. Yes we have 1 track minds for the most part.
PETEYPABLO1977 6 months ago
More than one guy smiled at you lass. You forget that men are basically dumbasses when it comes to sex. If you were talking about how to get money power or bitches then we would not give a fuck about how you look! In this case how ever we cant help to ignore what you say so we can think about your good looks. It is not you, it is men in general.
PETEYPABLO1977 6 months ago
more than one guy smiled at you lass
PETEYPABLO1977 6 months ago
Oh my god yes! I've been on this train of though for a while, but haven't been able to express it quite as well as you now did. I've also been worried about being branded as a chauvinist trying to justify myself if I didn't formulate it properly.
Oh, and you're totally rocking the 40's-50's look.
raizumichin 6 months ago
Also, to present catch 22 you describe doesn't require the 'consent' of men to be presented. If a woman wore something revealing or overtly sexually expressive was then indignant when they get a reaction that expresses interest (likely based upon said display), it is a catch 22. Whatever the response, the catch exists. Cries of objectification vary with the reaction of the receiver to the method of expression. If she's interested, she's less likely to feel objectified. If not, more likely.
l33tm0nk3y 7 months ago
Objectification = automatically bad as a false notion. You go to the grocery store and you want your cashier to be good at what she does. She's (largely) a transactional object. Her interests and personal life are not necessary. In the realm of sex/attraction most men and women just objectify based upon different criteria (which can vary somewhat person to person). Men tend to objectify based upon what attracts them to women, women do as well, but what attracts is different.
l33tm0nk3y 7 months ago
I think you responded to some things that the other woman never said.
AllOtherNamesTaken2 7 months ago
Thanks for this video. It's important to draw the line in a reasonable way!
hugesinker 7 months ago
Initially it may seem ironic, to be drawn to the '40's aesthetic, when, as you said, women were living at the height of objectification. But, setting aside the bit you do for yourself, isn't it also that you can look back and think to yourself how alluring the appearance of everyone was and wonder what it would be like to let them live with more confidence and the less oppressive objectification you think you live under. Isn't it like a gift to them and their memories. Just a thought.
davetoepfer 7 months ago
Will was a genius & I find this quote shoots down all marxists, neo-cons, radical feminists & other people who are obsessed with ideology and try to live their life completely to the limited words of some "philosopher"
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. "
Do as your happiness would wish you do not some other who if you were to lose your sight, touch, hearing, smell and taste would cease to exist. All you would be left with is yourself.
ImaginedWriter 7 months ago
Here's a question, would you like having sex with yourself? I wouldn't like having sex with myself. I think that highlights the whole illusion behind it. If you can keep it up then great, but it is an illusion.
land9631 7 months ago
@land9631 I don't think it's possible for most people to have sex with themselves... hermaphrodites, perhaps.
If you mean masturbation, sure, I touch myself. I'm not exactly sitting around all day with the curtains closed, however. Not a be-all-and-end-all. Have lots of other 'interests' =).
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
The only way that we can not be living for lies is if we work to prevent lives.So to the dedicated antinatalist it is about using what time you have to do the only real meaningful thing with it- preventing future lives.You're correct,both the internet and sex can be distractions.But we do put entirely too much focus and meaning into sex and love.If it's easy to get rid of why not?I do kind of scorn it.I scorn the thing I thought had meaning that just shows me all the flaws of human psychology.
land9631 7 months ago
@land9631 Condoms and adoption mean that I can hold a soft-line antinatalist stance without any issue. As I understand it VHEMT isn't anti-sex, it's anti-reproduction. And luckily I live in an era of extensive reproductive freedoms (in the West) and can therefore shag my life away happily without it becoming the business of antinatalists.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
Love your video, you have a great point too, one I quite agree with.
Also, you look great. ;)
MiniarHalfshasa 7 months ago
@MiniarHalfshasa Thanks and thanks!
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
I think that you can look at sex and love as harmless fun, or you can see how much shit it causes for everyone.Can you deny that it's a big big distraction, perhaps the biggest waste of time there is?And if everyone was sterilized to not want it, I think it would solve a lot of problems.I think people could be their fullest self in that they would be focused on how to fix the world. It is harmless fun that has huge costs that I believe we'd all be better not to want. I don't want to want it.
land9631 7 months ago
@land9631 I don't think anything which I enjoy is a waste of time -that's what life is for. There is no objective meaning, it's about using what time you have in a way which makes you glad to be alive. And for me, sex is part of that.
I'm not distracted by sex - I have sex regularly when I want it and then go about my day. If you ask me, the internet is the distraction.
You're entitled to feel differently about it though, obviously.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
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land9631 7 months ago
The bottom line is that you are putting importance on your physicality. You are placing value in a stupid place. We are all victims of stupidity. And sex is stupid addiction. We should all be sterilized from birth so that we don't want to have sex and don't have to distract ourselves with all of this bullshit. And we can focus on what matters. Which is not lipstick and being pretty and painting your nails.
land9631 7 months ago
@land9631 What's important is that we don't all feel or respond the same way to things as you do, and neither should we want everyone to. Sex is harmless fun (sounds like your feelings on that are a little repressed, to me).
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
I should probably shut up now.
AlvinSawdust 7 months ago
You waffled Jess but I did enjoy listening.
AlvinSawdust 7 months ago
Bloody nuts I want to make you a cheese and tomato tosty! iT will be tasty x AHHHH relax
AlvinSawdust 7 months ago
@AlvinSawdust And make you a cup of tea x
AlvinSawdust 7 months ago
@AlvinSawdust fair trade :)
AlvinSawdust 7 months ago
@AlvinSawdust Two sugars?
AlvinSawdust 7 months ago
I was sitting in a pub once with a few "tough guy" co-workers and my ex-girlfriend was swooning over a hot guy that walked in and i said to her, i can see why your checking him out, "he's a fine looking fella". The amount of abuse i got off the "tough guys" in my company. lol. All of a sudden i was a closet homosexual. See, even men can't win with other men let alone women. I wonder if this adonis minding his own business felt "objectified", probably not lol.
StuOH 7 months ago
@monogirl3 But if "He's flying by in a car" then it's something that happens in a split second. Are you that freaked out by a car horn, just avoid rush hour traffic lol!. C'mon, why do you feel negative emotions. Seriously, is your life going to be adversely affected by a comment that you can barely hear, bear in mind that the car in flying past you. Grow a thicker skin girl!
StuOH 7 months ago
@StuOH A passing comment in the street happens in a split second too, why is that relevant when considering my reception to it? I can't believe you would need an explanation as to why one would feel unease having vulgarities barked at them. Unease is my gut reaction. I'm not being irrational or overly sensitive so you can keep your advice. If it happens I can write them off as an eejit & go on about my business but I'm NOT indifferent to being treated primarily as sexual prey to be jeered at.
monogirl3 7 months ago
@monogirl3 Seconded.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
I'm a man and my power comes from serving the people and working hard.
AlvinSawdust 7 months ago
I always rather liked male fashion from the 40s. It's the hats...
I've always been puzzled when being told that finding a woman attractive is objectifying her. It's all in the context. "You are beautiful" is one thing, "I'd fuck that" is quite another. The way I see it if I can compliment a woman (or a man for that matter, I'm comfortable enough with my sexuality to do that) without it being threatening or demeaning I'm good.
And yes, you do indeed look gorgous, Jess.
GriffinPilgrim 7 months ago
@Boundlesseyes Don't get me wrong, you make some pertinent points in your video but it's still a question of how we deal with other peoples ignorance and as much as agree with what you are saying, in my opinion it's trivial in the greater scheme of things and just puts men and women on either sides of the track. Yes "objectification", it happens but not nearly as much as some women like to think ;-).
StuOH 7 months ago
If a women is cornered by a group of men who are making obscene gestures or remarks then i can understand why any women would be upset or terrified but let's be honest here, 99% of the time it's just a wolf whistle or lewd comment from a car window from an idiot trying to impress his mates! Why would you be upset by it. It hardly warrants a second thought. Let it go, move on!
StuOH 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes. Nah, it's my experience that most men don't leer at women and make inappropriate remarks but there are a few guys that will always "objectify women". Just be smart about it and don't take it to heart. Women have made lurid comments about me but i never get offended. I just think it's funny, not objectionable at all, usually with alcohol taken. More important things to be worrying about in my opinion.
StuOH 7 months ago
@monogirl3 If a guy tells you to "get your rat out" just tell him that your pet mice is at home, you don't carry him with you. C'mon, use your head. What's the worst that can happen, "you get offended". Don't get offended. It's just a brainless comment from a jumped up moron who doesn't know any better. Bare in mind that it's usually loutish teenagers or 20 somethings just passing the time of day who make these comments. Try to put it in perspective and laugh it off.
StuOH 7 months ago
@StuOH I use wit when possible but when he's flying by in a car, obviously any reply would be in vain.
Listen, I'm not saying I lose sleep, I'm merely saying it evokes immediate negative feelings. I'm well aware most men don't do it aswell. You might feel complimented, but I cannot garner any gratification from objectification delivered like that, it simply makes me feel less of a person in that moment. I'd add just because I find it distinctly unfunny doesn't mean I lack a sense of humour.
monogirl3 7 months ago
The very same women who feel objectified when a man makes a lurid remark would be upset if they didn't get any attention from men but they say "I'm not just a pretty face". Boys will be boys and feminist women are misguided if they feel offended by a throwaway comment with sexual overtones. Get a sense of humour and take it with a pinch of salt. Well thought through unbiased video though, us men have a brain and it's not located in our underpants! at least not with the guys i know.
StuOH 7 months ago
@StuOH No one denies that compliments (even those of a sexual nature) can be nice or that throw away comments can't be treated as such - but crude remarks from strangers is embarassing & often intimidating for me personally. It's common where I live for guys shout out 'get yer rat out', their car horn making your heart near fail. How could you not feel degraded by that? It genuinely, without thought, triggers a negative emotional response in me. I fail to see how I'm misguided because of this.
monogirl3 7 months ago
@monogirl3 Seconded.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
I don't know why some women get pissed off when a guy wolf-whistles or remarks on her appearance, ie- you look hot! A young inebriated girl told me i was hot just last week when i was just walking down the street minding my own business, who cares. Was i being objectified, i couldn't care less. Actually, i just take it as a compliment as most men do when a women makes a positive comment on my appearance even if there are sexual overtones. But some women get the hump, why oh why! Silly stuff IMO.
StuOH 7 months ago
@StuOH I think your experience is different from that of most women's, and a wise man listens and learns, rather than assuming everyone thinks and feels the way he does.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
Although I'm not entirely sure I agree with the title itself, I do agree with most of what you have to say here; by the way, the Forties look definitely looks good on you :)
niriop 7 months ago
(1) I've just watched your vid from 2010... and it makes so much more sense than this one does. What I think is significant is that you're new attitude makes it much easier for you to fit in with the dominant culture. And this is a process which I've seen before. Someone starts off with a genuinely radical attitude which could threaten the status-quo... and they get a lot of shit for that. So, over time, they adapt to the pressure. (cont...)
mickmle1 7 months ago
(2) But obviously they can't just say, "Yeah, I caved" - so they come up with a whole new attitude, which makes them feel okay about fitting in. // Now maybe you're going to say I don't know you (which is true), or that I'm generalising... but being able to look at society and draw general conclusions is one of the things which helps us fight the system. Seeing ourselves as unique individuals who just sort of do stuff, and if people don't like it, that's their problem... well, that doesn't help.
mickmle1 7 months ago
(3) It goes back to that quote from Marx, apparently, saying that our culture is created by economic pressure. And I've noticed something similar in another of your vids, where you said you were going to get a job as a manager (or whatever it was) just for a couple of years to pay off your student debts. And maybe that was alright, you said. Which maybe it is. I'm not trying to give you a hard time for compromising.
mickmle1 7 months ago
(4) But I mention that as another example of how economics forces us to change our ideas... AND THEN we naturally come up with some way of justifying what we're doing as "probably alright, really." In contrast, if you'd left uni and gone into a feminist building collective which was 50/50 male and female - like what people did in ye olde days - you might have been more likely to respond to sexism by organising as a collective to confront it.
mickmle1 7 months ago
(5) Basically, all I'm saying is that I see a lot of this kind of attitude on YT, and I think people should maybe consider if it really is just a co-incidence that their ideas are changing in a way which happens to make it easier for them to fit in. And a major part of that is a the subjective-individualism which comes from having had so little experience of collective activities. Like, how many people have actually been in a strike involving hundreds of people... and won?
mickmle1 7 months ago
(6) - People under 30, that is // Or to put it another way - you young 'uns are like really losing the plot. You think you're re-inventing yourselves, but to me it looks like you're just finding ways to justify fitting in. // Anyway, as I mentioned earlier, I don't know you - but everyone else on YouTube just blurts out their opinions, so I thought I'd give it a try too :-)
mickmle1 7 months ago
@mickmle1 You've spammed my comments section with so many comments here that I'm not going to bother reading them. But from the first one I'm taking from this that you think I'm 'selling out'. But as I told you in this video, I was sitting around the house with the curtains closed when I happened to see Loreleila's video. What social pressure is there sitting in my bedroom on my own?
People grow and change. I say in this video that some of those ideas hold true, whilst others do not. [cont]
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes I find this idea very patronizing - I'm being strong and original as long as I agree with you, but if I don't I'm caving in to pressure? You don't accredit me with enough strength and originality to stand on my own to feet and come to my own conclusions unless I come to those conclusions you have drawn?
I have enough strength to ignore your opinion on my motivations. Here - here's me ignoring your opinion.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes - That's classic - If I have an idea that's complex enough to require more than 50 words... that makes it spam. Welcome to YouTube-World. And if I criticise your pov that's just cos I want you to agree with me. My opinion, your opinion - how can anyone know which is more valid? Maybe by referring to the objective context of the capitalist system in which we live? Hell no, that's sooooo 70's. Anyway, I'll bugger off now - you're obviously not listening... which is your right :-)
mickmle1 7 months ago
@RichardRich1989 This comment is brain-meltingly irrelevant.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@RichardRich1989 Demonstrate to me how I don't wish to take responsibility?
Yeah, a real man takes orders and kills who he's told to kill. Usually for resources. Can't wait to be one of them.
11% of the British Armed Forces are women. They are PREVENTED from fighting on the front line. Most people in the army don't fight 'to be men', they fight for scholarships and pay they couldn't otherwise have accessed.
You're a moron.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
The forty's style - love it! (Only, they didn't dare show a bra at that time, I'd think, or they'd be called whores). In the way a woman dresses, she expresses her artistic nature. It's not only for men, but the way she wants to look, and for other women as well.
If a man is well-dressed, and looks attractive, I listen even more attentively to what he has to say. This is the opposite of objectification.
dewinthemorning 7 months ago
@dewinthemorning Haha, yeah, the bra is a bit of artistic license.
I can't really think of any time I objectify men. I'm not really into pictures of topless hunks or anything like that... Even when I see men in porn I end up thinking 'wonder how much he gets paid? Wonder if he actually fancies this woman?' lol. Porn is not for over-thinkers.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes I don't objectify men, either. I can't be aroused only by the way a man looks, that's why I've never been 'in love' with any film star.
I think objectification reveals paucity of higher order feelings and sensitivities in a person.
dewinthemorning 7 months ago
Why has some of my comments been flagged as spam.
I dont get it. Whats that all about?, What did I do wrong?
Eugenics2020 7 months ago
@Eugenics2020 I'm guessing someone with a grudge from another comments section. But it's cool, because this is my channel and I can just un-spam them.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes cheers for fixing the Spam issue. I must have upset a few people with my population control ideas along with a few other views.
Eugenics2020 7 months ago
@Eugenics2020 Yeah, I'm sure it's not popular.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes so Boundless my mate Nuron666 was wondering whether your ever going to forgive him lol
Eugenics2020 7 months ago
I enjoy experimenting with make up as an art form and mainly to express myself and make myself feel better, it's nice when someone compliments how it looks, but if it's something I enjoy doing I don't feel I'm objectifying myself. So I have to disagree about the make up tutorial videos. You should check out Klair de lys's channel, now she really does incorporate art into make up!
PuffyAmiYumi 7 months ago
@PuffyAmiYumi You were one of the women I was apologising to, really. I didn't get it, and now I'm getting it more... Still not big on make-up tutorials in general, but I've found some Forties hair and make-up vids which I have enjoyed recently.
Thanks for the recommendation. =)
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes Oh it's fine, sorry I misunderstood you, I get a bit defensive about the topic of make up and clothes, like what you said in your video, how some people assume they're doing it for this and that reason other than their own enjoyment of just doing it, however their is of course an element of it involving attraction, which is undeniable, but not the main reason, for myself anyway. Yeah Klair hasn't done any 40's looks but she's SO good at FX make up too like Terminator! Just wow!
PuffyAmiYumi 7 months ago
Fasten three buttons up and you would be my adore!
AlvinSawdust 7 months ago
@AlvinSawdust Lol, sort of missing the point of the video - this is for myself. If I was to adjust it to please you (a man) it wouldn't be me any more.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
great video and well done. Its a hard thing to work out how to talk about this, I expected to do a video on it this weekend but I found it so very challenging to think about what I wanted to say as well as take into account how people would react to what I said. I do like the balance that you use to show you are aware of the difficulty of such a topic. I hope to join you on this topic soon and thank you for helping me focus my ideas. yours Earl
bikemessenger7 7 months ago
@bikemessenger7 I would love to hear your thoughts.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
There doesn't need to be a draft for women because there is not draft for men currently. Should a large enough war occur, then by all means draft women into combat roles. If women are truly equal , then they should have the right to be cannon fodder just as much as men. Now if this did occur, watch how many feminists would reverse course.
MrAnorexicBob 7 months ago
@MrAnorexicBob This is just bullshit. I wouldn't fight a war because I'm a pacifist, not because I'm a pussy.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes LOL, i love it when feminist BS is exposed. I wasn't referring to you individually, I'm talking about women in general, I suppose American women, since we're more likely to fight a big war and you Brits seem to fear war (translation, came to your senses).
MrAnorexicBob 7 months ago
@RichardRich1989 Exactly, Chivalry & Feminism cannot co-exist, trying to make them do so only creates an environment where men become Captain Save a Hoes. Chivalry assumes that women are not able to do certain things and therefore the man must step up. Feminism assumes women and men are equal and that women can do almost anything men can. If a woman can do anything a man can, then it becomes unnecessary for that man to be the provider , protector and financier for women.
MrAnorexicBob 7 months ago
Stop this! You are better than this.
AlvinSawdust 7 months ago
@AlvinSawdust *sigh*
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
And you look sexy. I loved hearing our ideas and opinions, they made me think.
Cheers Christine
christinepeace 7 months ago
Isn't looking at where you are and where you've been amazing? Leaves open all sorts of possibilities! ^.^ Well said, ma'am!
theinnerbadger 7 months ago
@theinnerbadger I know, it's pretty mad. I got a response to a video from four months ago called 'Is This All There Is?' and some of the things he was quoting me as saying were like "Woah, I said that? Jesus, I was that bad...?"
Might be when the days draw in again I regress a bit, but without the weed I'm bound to be much better...
Thanks!
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
Who were you listening to at the start of this video? (I'm sure there's been some talk about it in the comments below, but I honestly just don't want to comb through all of them.)
ashley060189 7 months ago
@ashley060189 It's Billie Holiday, a three-disc box-set called 'Her Finest Studio Recordings'. Love it love it love it.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
"My political view is not undermined by how I dress" - ahh, you are so quotable sometimes.
Love this video for how balanced it is. One of my favourite things about you is that you're so comfortable talking about things that contradict each other... like you're attraction to the 40s/50s despite radical feminism, and admitting that you get caught up in the same human pattern seeking mindstuff.... because real life is complex and things contradict. It's refreshing. (and you do look amazing today)
velvetporcupine 7 months ago
@velvetporcupine Thanks, that's the nicest thing anyone's said in this comment section!
Yeah, it's weird that a lot of people think simply making a youtube video is your way of saying - "I'm perfect and right about everything and you're wrong". I just assume that everyone can see I'm no genius, I'm just thinking aloud, and I welcome counter-arguments.
The more I think about things the more I realise how utterly un-knowable things are. It makes my mind boggle when I think about it for too long!
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
You might want to watch out calling yourself a "radical feminist", look at the treatment Lori Adorable got for (allegedly) "misusing" the term...LOL
And I think you misunderstood the point of the original a bit, but so it goes, and you made some excellent points...and yes, men are responsible for how they act. That being said, as Loreleila's point originally was, women should not expect to be ignored when dressing more openly, something you acknowledged too, of course. =)
BobChaos23 7 months ago
@BobChaos23 Haha, who's afraid of the big bad angry school of rad-fem?
I totally straw-manned the fuck out of Loreleila accidentally, so I've apologised. I seem to have a terrible habit of doing that... perhaps I should just talk to myself on youtube and leave other people out of it because I seem to cause offence whenever I try to venture off of my own channel...
I get a lot of what she was saying and agree with it in the main. Devil's advocate, I guess. I think she likes that though.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
I like the main thrust of this video. It drives me up a wall to hear arguments that equate male sexual response/attraction with sexual objectification of women. And yes, men are not simple creatures, whatever people want to think. A penis is not an on/off switch.
I have always been interested in the idea of a woman feeling sexy as an internal state that doesn't relate to other people. By definition, doesn't feeling sexy mean that you attract attention, particularly from men?
Friendough 7 months ago
@Friendough I think that's why I mainly rejected the idea of sexiness unless it was in private with a person I felt close to and respected by (although I've had a few one-night-stands with varying outcomes emotionally, so not always). So then I dressed down and didn't bother, and it just had the effect of damaging my self-image - I called myself an 'ugly chick'. I'm really happy with the '40s thing because it feels like me and like I'm in control of my own sexuality again. IDK if it makes sense.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes But definitely I can feel sexy without male admiration. Partly because I'm bi - women's admiration makes me feel sexy - and partly because a lot of the time I equate male admiration with porn/perfection and end up feeling inadequate. Ultimately sexiness probably always starts from within, from self-acceptance. That's much sexier than a complete stranger thinking he'd like to 'tap that' without knowing me at all.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes Gah, third comment - I'm rambling but it's interesting.
Also, I find all kinds of things erotic - the way things feel to the touch, curves in nature, unrealised sexual tension, some music, storms, the list is endless. So for me sexiness is more than the visual approval of the opposite sex.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes
:)
I have often heard women say that, when it comes to when, confidence is sexy. I suppose this works the other way as well. You equate feeling sexy with feeling confident. However, being sexy, for men, is a different thing. What we consider sexy is primarily visual, and we are NEVER allowed to feel sexy ourselves, at least as heterosexuals. So I can see a divide here, a miscommunication. I do think it leads men into thinking that we are in a Catch 22.
Friendough 7 months ago
@Friendough
Of course, the same principles apply to men. We have to come to feel comfortable in our own skin, with ourselves, and appreciate our own bodies whether or not we get approval from women. I have always felt that men who feel the rules of dating and attraction are unfair should just refuse to play along. But it is hard for many people to take themselves out of the dating game. For men, there is often nothing but loneliness awaiting them.
Friendough 7 months ago
@Friendough How can a woman make a man feel sexy, in your opinion?
My boyfriend thinks he's hot shit, lol. Sometimes I have to fight with him for mirror space. But it's probably bravado, he's probably a little insecure, so I'd love to know what you think I can do to make him feel sexy.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes Or perhaps that's your point, it has to come from him?
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes
Well, you know your boyfriend better than I do (which is not at all!) I think the allure of noire, the 20's, 30's, and 40's, is the illusion that men were men, and women were women, meaning that women knew what they wanted, and men knew how to provide it. Of course, it's crap. Men and women have always had our insecurities.
What do I think? Fuck, I like the librarian look. Honestly, women in bondage is hot as hell. Casual touching, looking away whenever he gets close...
Friendough 7 months ago
@Friendough
But this is after you have already established a relationship. At that point, playing with the power dynamics and cultural archetypes provides for some very creative experiences.
The ultimate sexual attraction for any man (IMHO) is the virginal whore. That is, a woman who is willing to experience anything, but only for her one man. To create this fantasy, you need the right amount of flirting and then running away. It's hard to do. I only recommend it for experienced couples.
Friendough 7 months ago
@Friendough
On the subject of less overtly sexual ways to make a man feel sexy: Asking for his opinion on things can make him feel important. Giving compliments on things he has provided or decisions he has made will give him confidence. Small, innocuous touches, such as touching his elbow, shoulder, or the edge of his hand will do the same.
Friendough 7 months ago
@Friendough Ah good, I was doing well intuitively on this last part.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes
Well done!
Also, that is a good look for you. Sexy and classy.
Friendough 7 months ago
Women with a brain are so fucking hot. *fap* *fap* *fap*
silversoul7 7 months ago
@silversoul7 LOL. Maybe I shouldn't give a shit what people do with my videos. Doesn't make any difference in my world.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
I'm all for women having an equal amount of power as men, the only problem is that women often want the additional power but without the responsibility. The best way to destroy feminism is to give women full equality.
MrAnorexicBob 7 months ago
@MrAnorexicBob BTW, you're looking cute Jess. You coming back to the US anytime in the near future.
MrAnorexicBob 7 months ago
@MrAnorexicBob I'm a bit puzzled by this - 'women' often want? Which women? And what do they have to do with me?
Thanks. And no plans to return yet - desperately trying to find a job. Keep defaulting on payments and having things cut off.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
Is that Billie Holiday in the background?
Jaybird196 7 months ago
@Jaybird196 Yeah, fantastic album actually. 3 discs of her 'finest studio recordings'. But Gloomy Sunday isn't on there unless it's under another name, and that's my favourite.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes Mine too. She had a fantastic voice ^_^ . My next best favorite is " Moanin' Low" .
Jaybird196 7 months ago
Which radfem blogs do you read? What are your opinions on some of their, IMO, outrageous statements? From what I've read on the radfem blogs, I find it shocking that you of all people, is a radfem. Almost every contributor on the radfem blogs I've come across are super anti-PIV, anti-reproduction, hetero-critical lesbians (actual self-proclaimed lesbians.) And without over exaggerating here, I think a lot of the contributors in the radfem community actually do hate men.
Byfield 7 months ago
@Byfield I don't read rad-fem blogs. I consider myself to be 'radical' because I actually want to change something about current situation, and whenever I say that everyone shouts 'RADIKAL!1!!' If radical is wanting things to change, I'm radical and proud.
I see no problem with hetero-critical lesbians - they deserve a voice like everyone else. Man-haters have no place in feminism[equality], but some women are drawn to it after they have been raped/repeatedly beaten by some men, so it's cloudy.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
What do you think about Elevatorgate?
CadicusTheDamned 7 months ago
@CadicusTheDamned I don't.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
Your comments are interesting and you're easy on the eyes (even if you buttoned up that shirt).
vxbinaca 7 months ago
@vxbinaca Thanks. =) Got four new subs where normally I lose four or five per video. We'll see how long they last when I DO button up my top. Ironic in the context of this video.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
additionally, if you ask me i wouldnt call you a radical feminist-i guess it depends on the definition. If you mean radical feminist as one who is radical to society at large, i would say no, but if you mean radical feminist as radical to other feminists, then i would agree :D at least radical to the majority of feminists that i hear about. Maybe most of your opinions represent those of most feminists? always hard to tell with limited experience and lack of information. <----thats waffling :D
peteheatb3 7 months ago
@peteheatb3 I'd say radical to society at large. I'm not going to bomb the embassy or anything, but I would make major changes given the option.
The more I learn about it, the more I realise there really isn't any one opinion which is common to all feminists, so we have to default to 'advocating the equality of women with men' and interpret from there.
Don't believe what you hear. There are some nutters, but feminists have to be one of the most straw-manned groups around.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes completely agree. As far as various opinions go, it reminds me alot of humanism. A humanist can support such a wide variety of opinions-its pretty much impossible to constrict humanism to a couple positions.
Feminism challenges the status quo-as such alot of stupid people will exaggerate positions feminists hold in order to scare off the majority. I see it quite alot with atheism as well-fox news is brilliant at straw-manning atheism. Sucks, what can i say lol.
peteheatb3 7 months ago
ok i'm confused. it's ok for women to dress in a way that says she's looking for sex, but it's not ok for a man to desire that same woman only for sex? if a woman just wants to have a one night stand with a random guy, does he still have to respect her on an intellectual level? is it ok that she only wants him for sex? or does she have to respect him on an intellectual level as well? is wrong if they both objectify each other and only want sex from each other?
Cuddlebunzzzz 7 months ago
@Cuddlebunzzzz No, IMO it's perfectly fine for a man to desire a woman for sex. But there are ways of approaching her which don't include honking, shouting, touching, etc. Such as striking up a conversation and seeing where it leads. Responding politely if she tells you she's not interested. It's ok if she wants him for sex too, but she should respect if he wants something deeper and not toy with him. It's not my business what 'they' do. This is about my personal preference.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes but if a man only wants a woman for sex, or vice versa, isn't that objectification? even if they do talk politely, is it wrong if the whole time they're just thinking "he/she's hot, can't wait to tap that," and everything they say is an attempt to get in the other's pants? is objectification always wrong or is it only wrong when it's done it a rude or vulgar way (such as shouting)?
Cuddlebunzzzz 7 months ago
@Cuddlebunzzzz I think it's only wrong when it's done in a dishonest way. If he tells her - 'I love you, can't wait to meet the parents' etc. purely to have sex with her then it's wrong. If he says, after a few introductory sentences, "I hope this doesn't offend you, but I think you're gorgeous and I'm wondering if you'd like to come back to my place?" then he's giving her the option to make fully-informed decision and respecting her right to decline.
What do you think?
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes well i always hear people going on about how objectification is terrible in all contexts. but in this video it sounds to me like you're saying it's ok for a woman to present herself as a sexual object in order to attract sex, yet it's still wrong for a man to view that woman as merely a sexual object. perhaps i'm misunderstanding what objectification is. i don't think objectifying someone is the same as dehumanizing them, which is what rapists do. but maybe i'm wrong.
Cuddlebunzzzz 7 months ago
@Cuddlebunzzzz Nah, I'm saying that there's nothing wrong with a woman who just wants sex. But she's still that - a person who wants sex. She's not an object for sex.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes then i'm confused about what objectification is. i admittedly objectify women all the time (or i think i do). when i'm out and about and a woman with a nice body passes me, all i care about at that time is how good her body looks, not what she thinks. but at the same time i know that doesn't give me the right to just grab her or disrespect her in anyway, and i keep those naughty thoughts to myself. i realize shes a person, but at that moment all i think of her is "nice ass" (cont)
Cuddlebunzzzz 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes (cont) i also don't always view all women in that way, i only think of women in that context when i'm having no interaction with them outside of glancing them over while they pass by me (and hoping they don't notice me doing it). if she were to stop and talk to me then i'd immediately shift my focus to what she's saying. so is that not objectification, or is it a scenario in which it's not a bad thing? or is it still wrong for me to think that way, from a feminist perspective?
Cuddlebunzzzz 7 months ago
i remember ages ago you gave zomgitscris a bollocking for wearing a bikini in holiday montage or something. then there was a shit load of boring drama. has your opinion on that changed?
and since i have permission to say so, you look damn good.
BornUnderABadSign89 7 months ago
@BornUnderABadSign89 Yeah, I had that sort of thing in mind. I still wasn't being a misogynist at the time, that whole Peach part was bullshit, but I was being a knob about the bikini because I thought it reflected badly on me what she did, which is fucking stupid.
Thanks.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
i hope you have self realised.
MensRifleAssociation 7 months ago
@MensRifleAssociation Nah, my self is tricksy and multi-faceted. Each time I think I've pinned it down it flits away to another corner. But I do feel better about my appearance than I did sitting around all morning researching techniques to disguise a lazy eyelid. =)
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
Would there be justification with the position that the purpose of dressing sexy, feminine and putting on the slap is to raise oneself on the social ladder than would otherwise be the case. To gain status with women in the main and extra male attention is merely a consequence of this?
volnay853 7 months ago
@volnay853 I'd almost love that to be true but I doubt it. I'm not sure most women think the way I do about it...
I will say though that there have been times where women in my uni house were talking for hours about hair and make-up and I felt left out because I didn't give a fuck. And sometimes I wish I had more female friends, and my refusal to do that shit until recently might have had something to do with it. Loreleila definitely made some good points about mainstream male-friendly beauty..
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
I don't see why people would turn to youtube for sexual gratification. Don't they know about porn? You're very pretty, but I'm here to listen to your point of view, not to ogle you.
I liked and favourited this by the way. Really well said. :)
TheLaughingOut 7 months ago
@TheLaughingOut Haha, I know, I mean, in the porn world, a girl slagging off feminism in her bikini top is foreplay.
=p
Thanks. =)
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
I think Geri Haliwell touched up on this when people asked her about her union jack dress in the spice girls and what it ment to her.
FletchRDG 7 months ago
@FletchRDG Girl...power? lol.
BoundlessEyes 7 months ago
@BoundlessEyes nooooo it was abit more then that lol it was in an interview and she said something about feminism and that how feminism should be something you feel sexy about wearing and