Has history been tampered with? Moses upon the fiery mountain Vesuvius? Inverted maps?

[777buckdaddy]

if this is true then it would be gods will. it would be his will for you, to be telling me this. and it would be gods will that i dont believe you. your not getting the real point that god was giving. the only only thing that you can possibly take with you when you die is the, lives that you touch and the choices that you make. so its not when where or how -- it is the message, that you are supposed to learn from. the only thing that we were given was choice! and use the past to make right ones

[777buckdaddy]

if this is true then it would be gods will. it would be his will for you, to be telling me this. and it would be gods will that i dont believe you. your not getting the real point that god was giving. the only only thing that you can possibly take with you when you die is the, lives that you touch and the choices that you make. so its not when where or how -- it is the message, that you are supposed to learn from. the only thing that we were given was choice! and use the past to make right ones.

[lizazoon]

There is NO evidence for the existence of Moses.

[XSC3]

"Hinduism" is just the European umbrella term for the indigenous religions of India. It is incredibly diverse (330 million gods!) and continues to grow and change (there are gurus there today that are worshiped by some people). So while it probably contains some things that are very old, much of it is post-Christian, and influenced by Christianity, and other religions.

[iammrlee]

I agreed with most of your other comments but your view of Christianity seems slightly over-righteous. No offense intended.

All religions grows and changes over time or at some point. Even the Chunch's stand changes as the Pope changes. Customs and cultures changes along with its people. Nothing is spared.

[XSC3]

Dionysius is credited in these lists with "changing water into wine" like Jesus did at the Wedding of Cana (jars of hand washing water became good wine). Rather, Dionysius' temple would sometimes leak wine, or people would leave empty bowls in the Temple overnight and the next day they'd be filled with wine.

This is why the copycat theory isn't taken seriously by modern accademics. It sounds impressive at first, until you try tracking down some of the references & see how tortured they are.

[XSC3]

Horus was never crucified, but killed by a scorpion in his youth (and brought back to life by his mother's magic), and was concieved when he mother had sex with his father's corpse (after it was torn apart by his mortal enemy, his mother sewed it back together and in some versions revived it just long enough to have sex with it, in other versions she impregnated herself with his reversed penis). Mithras was born from a rock, fully grown (and some shepherds helped pull him out).

[XSC3]

For example, you've probably heard it said that Krishna was born of a virgin and crucified. Neither of these are true. He was the eighth child by his human mother and father. He was killed in a hunting accident, where an arrow pierced his foot under (or next to) a tree.

[XSC3]

Once Christianity became popular, others tried to duplicate its success, and so they borrowed from it. The Mythers have it backwards, and try to take the later incarnations of these pagan cults, to say that the early cult of Jesus copied them. The texts and inscriptions we do have show that this just isn't the case. People like Graves (and his modern disciple Dorothy Murdock, aka Acharya S) turn these texts into vague lists and use loaded words to make them SOUND the same... and make stuff up.

[XSC3]

Plus, what we today call "Hinduism" was molded and shaped by Christian missionaries, well meaning European anthropologists and 19th century colonialists. Yes, primitive rites and Vedic ritual priesthoods existed long before Christianity, however, the cult of Krishna was heavily influenced by Christian missionaries, and characters like him grew in importance because of this social interaction, not the other way around. If you look at these gods pre-NT, they look nothing like Jesus.

[XSC3]

Basically, these conspiracy theories lack even the most basic understanding of how history is done, and instead resort to simplistic assumptions of mass forgetfulness and over-arching conspiracy and disinformation campaigns. No wonder the one promoting it is out of his field of expertise... seek the truth!

[mithec]

archaeological, dendro-chronological, paleo-graphical and radiocarbon methods of dating of ancient sources and artefacts and found them non-independent, non-exact, statistically implausible, contradictory and viciously circular because they are based on concensual chronology. google>books>fomenko

[XSC3]

Sorry, but as I've been saying, Fomenko is a KOOK (an amateur making extraordinary claims outside his field of expertise). So some Russian mathematician is going to overturn the entire fields of history, archeology, anthropology, etc? Great, let's see his work pass rigorous academic muster... oh wait, he's a conspiracy theorist, so it's all a plot! ;)

[saltydog78]

From reading the book dendro-chronology is only reliable on certain trees, but yet it's very difficult to make assumptions on just a tree.

It's funny how how they found the shroud of Turin during much political strife between the Palestinians and Israel.

[XSC3]

The Shroud of Turin is a fake. Whatever you think it is, it came no earlier than the 14th century. You can't start from the point that it's a genuine relic and that therefore Jesus lived in the late middle ages...

The "Shroud" doesn't match up the description in the Gospels which says there was a seperate head piece in addition to the linen wrappings, anyway.

[saltydog78]

wouldn't you suppose the bible it-self is a conspiracy? After wasn't the bible written by men? and edited by Roman authority?

[XSC3]

Not really, because the Bible is actually a bunch of documents written over a long period of time by many different (Jewish) authors. The New Testament was written over a period of about 50 years (the earliest a mere twenty years after Jesus died). The "Roman authorities" didn't edit the Bible. Rather the Christians collected these pre-existing books together and called them "scripture." Nobody doubts they were written by men (as are all documents), but they are believed inspired by God.

[saltydog78]

The Romans perverted the Jewish tradition by mixing paganism in with it..Hence Christianity. One would wonder as to why the story of the Hindu God Krishna is a mirror of the Jesus story. Hinduism is probably the oldest religion predating Judaism hundreds of years..Furthermore you may want to check the Roman God Mithras..Another Roman fairytale that changed taste..namely Jesus..no offense

[XSC3]

On the contrary, Christianity existed before the Romans had anything to do with it. Yes, there was a church in Rome (that Paul wrote to), but Christianity was not legalized until 313, and didn't become the state religion of Rome until 381. What "pagan practices" were "mixed in"? Let me guess, you're going to quote me from Graves and Massey? Sorry, but those guys have no credentials and their work is a hundred years out of date.

Mithras and Krishna, pre NT, are nothing like Jesus. No offense.

[XSC3]

The originals would have been earlier than the earliest copies (these were translated from Greek into Coptic, we have parts that are in Greek and parts in Coptic that are newer, both ancient).

Irenaeus writes against the Gnostic heretics, whom he quotes extensively. These works he mentions appear also.

[XSC3]

It's not that hard for trained experts to spot fakes. The "Gospel of Barnabas" for example is an obvious medieval fake. But the Gospel of Thomas? Ancient, even if scholars differ over precisely HOW ancient it is (estimates range from 50 CE, a small minority, to 160 CE, a larger group, most putting it in the early 2nd century). And please note that these are COPIES that we have.

[XSC3]

Nice try, but that means these imaginary 15-17th century forgers were writing with ink over a thousand years old on scrolls and codexes that were over a thousand years old... sorry, try again!

[XSC3]

Hmm, Christ was born in the middle ages? Gee, that's a neat trick! Then how come we have late 1st and 2nd century writers commenting extensively on his life and quoting from the New Testament at length? The writings of Irenaeus of Lyons alone contradict this ridiculous kooky revisionist "history" (I hestitate to call it "history" done by non-historians...).

[mithec]

'ancient' writers were all medieval ones writing under 'ancient' pseuodonims. the was quite a market for 'antiquity' in xv-xvii cy.

[XSC3]

Right, so again, it's all a conspiracy, and only one (unqualified) guy has figured it all out, and they all laugh at him... because... it's all a conspiracy! How... unlikely.

[mithec]

before commenting: google>books>fomenko, thank you for your time.

[lordsovereign]

1996 Pope John Paul II:

"Today, almost half a century after the publication of the encyclical [pope pius XII "humani generic" 1950], new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis... The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of this theory."

a clear papal admission that evolution is real and bible stories of creation are fairytales.