How many embassies of muslim nations get burned? How many lfags of muslim countries get burned? Why do muslims claim a right to not be offended by what happens in the west?
@mahdi0123456789 No, the truth is that you don't have the right to not be offended. If you're offended then tough shit, I can't expect someone who lives in a socialist country to understand freedom. They killed a man in the street for drawing a picture. I'm sure you think there's nothing wr
@KenMacMillan you dont even know what you are talking about can you say bomb on a plane no. can you threaten someone no. and if the thing you say hurts over a billion people then is just tough? you sound stupid. would you put up with somenone if they drew you mom or dad in a degrading way on the newspaper that over 5 million read i guess not.
@mahdi0123456789 " you dont even know what you are talking about can you say bomb on a plane no. can you threaten someone no. and if the thing you say hurts over a billion people then is just tough?"
Doesn't matter if I insult a billion people or one person. Same fucking thing. Get over yourself.
@KenMacMillan no limitations? so i can express myself by calling you're mother a whore? or calling Christians mindless freaks? that's the dumbest thing i have heard today... OF COURSE there are limitations, you have your freedom of expression, but we have to draw the line when it comes to INSULTING a faith. This cartoon was deliberately made ONLY to insult, not to convey any message or critical thinking whatsoever, only to INSULT. however the reaction was still exaggerated...
@yougonasorry You most certainly can express yourself by calling someone's mother a whore & christians mindless freaks. It happens all the time. We do not draw the line when it comes to insulting a faith unless the followers of that faith will murder you in cold blood like the scum that they are.
@KenMacMillan No,like the ignorant you are,you should no that if you continuously insulted someone in public you could get arrested for 'public indecency' now that is just another term for not respecting other people. It's quite despicable that some people with your mentality consider THAT as freedom of speech (no critical thinking, no moral values to argue about,nada,NOTHING, just plain simply insulting the prophet) and you consider THAT as freedom of speech, absolutely disgusting
@KenMacMillan are you a complete retard?? that has NOTHING to do with 'hey nice hat' it is PLAIN SIMPLY A PROVOCATION, this caricature has been created plain simply to provoke,do you speak English??? like i said no critical thinking or messages behind it nothing NADA. now if you don't understand that then you are intentionally just trolling and wasting my time or you just have a mental deficiency to understand it. I don't see any other explanation
@KenMacMillan of course I'm not defending the reaction some extremists had such as calling for the beheading of the artists or something, but i COMPLETELY understand where their anger comes from. Freedom of expression YES, but we DO draw the line when it comes to plain simply wanting to INSULT without any intellectual or critical message behind it, just simply provoke and call it freedom of speech, that's absolutely retarded. You KNOW they will get angry, so why do it? dumbass...
im glad to hear all the criticism about irshad from muslims, she is far to intelligent and liberal to be calling herself a muslim and your hatfull very islamic behaviour will finally allow her to break the chains of religion
@amareto35 No, it's called freedom. Freedom of speech. A concept that has existed in the Western world for hundreds of years, a concept that has made the Western world so much better that millions and millions of Muslims leave Islamic countries and move to Western countries.
The problem with Muslims is they hate their own countries, move from their own Islamic societies, and then don't understand freedom. You live in the US, you have freedom to thank to be able to say what you want. Respect it
@CloseTheseEyes "a concept that has existed in the western world".. are you sure about that ? I don't know if you "know" a country called "Austria".. If you deny Holocaust, you will go to jail for 3 years.. Germany you can't even say heil Hitler, let alone to deny it.. So please, think before you make any comments and don't embarrass yourself....
When the west is offending Muslim religion, is freedom of speech..When I offend holocaust, I'll go to jail for 3 years.. You can't have both ways...
@amareto35 A religion is a set of non-physical beliefs, the holocaust was the systematic gassing of millions of people. Spot the difference you backwards primitive?
A belief system cannot be offended, and a religion cannot hold such sensitivities. It would be wrong to criticise the holocaust just as it would be wrong to deny the killing of Palestinians in Gaza, you need to differentiate religious beliefs with denying world massacres.
You have more freedom in Europe than in the Middle East.
@CloseTheseEyes Look, I do not need a lecture.. Please don't change the subject.. Define "freedom of speech".. Don't get confused, we are NOT talking about what's wrong and what's right.. We are talking about, can I say what EVER I want in the western world? Again, don't send me private messages, and let people see how smart you are....
@CloseTheseEyes Well it's hasn't really existed for hundreds of years (depends on country) and it certainly havent been allowed for all in the west (lower classes)
Tariq Ramadan is saying that as soon as the people in the Muslim countries have democracies and not dictators they will start to understand it......
That is bullshit!!
Islam is a religion in which pople are asked to subdue themselfs under a lider, and they are not asked to think for themselfs but repeat what is written in a ancient primitive script!
Democracy and islam is like oil and water!
Dictatorship is the system in Islam! Look at the muslim world! Dictatorships everywhere!!
@malsifood I removed my comment, because when I reflected on it I questioned the point of it all. There's no point fanning flames to a subject where you have a fixed opinion and mine contrasts with that. Somalia has been left in a state of anarchy since the intervention there and it is a tradgedy. War lords have taken advantage of the vacuum that not having a stable, recognised government brings. We may see a similar development in Iraq. You cannot blame Islam for the actions of men.
@malsifood the west loves a dictator, they love them. Until they turn against them as happened in Iraq most recently, but has happened in Cuba and Iran before. Two vile dictatorships sponsored by America and in Iran's case Britain also, then the regime changes and the 'super powers' are told to get lost and all hell breaks loose. Everyone think's their viewpoint is the right one...you, me, irshad manji whoever. The reality though is poor people the world over are getting done over.
I totally agree with Tariq Ramadan that freedom of expression comes with responsibility. If your going to use it in provocative and immature manner, then don't be surprised if people act in that way. Just imagine if a skinhead provoked and used freedom of expression against black people or said the "N" word against Martin Luther King or Malcolm X.
I also think that Muslims should not react in the way that they do by burning and vandalizing things.
It still shocks me that in the 21st century, people still act like this. People talking about death because of a CARTOON. Its a bit monty python. Also, it gets on my nerves when people say something along the following lines..."i believe in freedom of speech, oh absolutely, but it has limits".
If the first Amendment is toppled in this country, many of us will join together into a powerful faction to destroy the enemies of freedom and human rights. There is a right to bear arms in this nation that has in part fostered a more robust sense of individual liberty. Millions would consider it their duty to cast off the yoke of an overweening state. The Mohammedans don't get it...they would suffer, as your gods are my witnesses, and they would be ruined along with the rest of us.
Who cares about this lesbian! She's not a scholar of Islam, she's not Middle Eastern, she doesn't speak Farsi, or Arabic or Turkish, so how would she know what internal dialogue and developments are happening in Muslim civil societies. She's one of those shameless brown people who have made their services available to the Empire to justify the brutal imperialistic onslaught. She's irrelevant.
I'll admit that I don't really agree about the whole homosexuality thing being accepted in islam but I think we're being a over-board and hypocritical her main goal is to stop all this radical extreme violence : stoning women to death in third world countries oppression ,abuse all these unjust extreme acts are the main reason why Islam and muslims have this hate image portrayed by everyone and how do know that Manji is wrong? heck how do we know that we are right? at the end Allah decides that
How do you know that she's not one of those people who really aren't muslim, but are the ones that are trying to make the muslims look bad, I mean building a mosque for muslims can be a way of her to make people believe her, and her ways of becoming famous and showing the world false information about Islam. How in the world do you call your self a muslim, when you're a lesbian. And this is my freedom of speech..
All I'm saying is, why would she preach islam, when clearly she does not follow any of the rules? She doesn't even fall under the muslim category. How do you know that she's not one of those people who really aren't muslim,
Of all the creatures in the world will ye approach males". "And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!" - Holy Quran 26:165-166 If she is a true muslim, would she not act upon the Qur'an, because afterall, muslims are supposed to act upon the Qur'an,her building a mosque for the lesbians/gays does not make any sense at all. So how can she judge other muslim?
There are various verses in Quran where Allah clearly says about Homosexuality. What happened to the land of Sodom and Gomorah, and its gay people?According to the Holy Quran Allah destroyed the land and killed all of its people, We also (sent) Lut: he said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? "For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." - Holy Quran 7:80-81
Irshad Manji is a lesbian. whereas clearly Homosexuality is not permitted in Islam and a lot of other religions. If she is a true muslim, would she not act upon the Qur'an, because afterall, muslims are supposed to act upon the Qur'an, her building a mosque for the homosexuals does not make any sense. So how can she judge other muslim? All I'm saying is, why would she preach islam, when clearly she does not follow any of the rules?
western culture has freedom of excuse so get used to it.
if you dont like it, go to one of the backward countries of the middle-east.
muslims should stop being crybabies and making excuses for violence, and just grow up, and accept the rough and tumble of debate just like everyone else does.
This lesbo is making her services available to the Empire's need since September 11th to find any and every reason to demonise Islam and Muslims, so that the carnage, war and imperialism that is unleashed on Muslim countries is justified. The US is the chief sponsor of state terrorism, as it is the ONE that funds, arms, protects and props all of the brutal oppressive dictatorships in the Middle East.
@Nejiboud: Oh, look at the widdle man beating up on and insulting a woman because she has a different view of Islam that he does! Archie Bunker/Alf Gannett have nothing on you, a loser who parrots whatever his imam says and can't think for himself. THINK FOR YOURSELF instead of being a mindless religious zombie.
Silly idiot, my opposition to imperialist onslaught is not religiously driven, and you are stupid for assuming that I'm Muslim, I'm Greek Orthodox Christian.
So the idea is that freedom of speech should be suppressed because it might be offensive to a bunch of illiterates who think that violence is the answer to everything. Why is in never the fault of these Muslims and that everyone else must cater to them?
the only reason Irshad Manji is being known in the western world is because the west media outlets love any muslim bashing, and there she gets her 15 mins of glory..any outspoken activist of islam is a cheerleader on foxnews and cnn.
@zee687 You are wrong. I don't think she is bashing Islam..I think she is expounding Islam for Christians from a woman's perspective. Her views on Islam are similar to the views expressed by Saudi and Bahraini women. Quran have been expounded only by the Imams They corrupted Quran by issuing so many fatwas. Most muslims are confused which one is correct.
@InitialDAmine I do not confirm nor deny. It is better that I discuss outside the horizon of religion..I understand Salman Rushdie and Ayaan Ali decided to abandon religion altogether because religion posed a threat to their lives. Religion tends to polarize people. There are those who discuss religion not to understand. They come to the table ready to prove each other wrong, not to find common ground but to dig the differences, blow it up and defeat and humiliate each other.
@samlarsenwrites cont..I admire Tariq, Ramadan, Irshad and Nadim Shehadi because they seem introspective and encourage self-examination of Islam as a religion and its practices without bashing Islam or Christianity. Muslims themselves must examine Islam and its many incoherent practices. Islam has many faces in the eyes of non-muslims because Islam is practiced differently in every Islamic state. Muslims themselves are surprised at what other muslims say about Islam.
@samlarsenwrites there is a diffrence between real islam and countries politics.
As for for Ramadam he is an intelectuel which is highly respected worldwide from Japan passing by europe to the USA and which i respect as for Irshad excuse me but sometime she is talking about stuff she doesn't know and the only reason she is acting and saying what the west want to hear and so she can sell her books and what so ever.
@InitialDAmine Well, Irshad Manji have a different perspective on Islam because she is Yemeni woman educated in the West. You are a man, and I am sure this is the first time you witnessed an eloquent muslim woman who speak about Islam in another way. The reaction of muslim men to muslim women activist is severe. Bahrain media bans Ghada Jamseer from appearing on TV. Arab reaction to Saudi journalist Nadine al Bedair was also severe because she questions polygamy . Do you like polygamy?
@samlarsenwrites nope not really she is wrong on the whole line.and she is not a Muslim. I am a mean doesn't mean i never had contact with woman and their Idioligy starting with my familly to the view of many other european countries that i visited.
@InitialDAmine Well... thanks..at least you have found something true in what she say about Islam...I did not expect you to agree totally....I will be very concerned if you cannot see anything truthful about her at all.
@InitialDAmine Again, you can disagree with me all you want..I will respect that...but I listen to many ordinary muslims, "Islamic scholars" and the Imams...I look at the culture, politics and history and I see a lot of dissonance. That is why I said muslims sometimes are surprised at what other muslims are saying about their religion. I do not pretend to be Islamic scholar....but notice that scholars at Al-Azar University, the mullahs in turkey, Saudi cannot even agree on as niqab.
@samlarsenwrites sure you have you point of view and you respect her, i don't and i told you why with argument, and from the begining my point was on objectif argumentation and not the subjecif feelings that you have.
@zee687 Right, well then why is Tariq Ramadan, the casuistic poster boy for hazy Islamo-wank, constantly afforded airtime by these so-called Muslim-hating Western media outlets? Do media outlets in Muslim majority countries offer the same platform for Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins to vent their opinions?
@zee687 (Islam Sensitization)=(Fetish of Liberal Media)
(Freedom of Expression)=(Anything that Mohammedans don't mind Hearing, Seeing, Rumoring)
Islamic sensitivities be DAMNED.
Mohammed, his supreme wooliness the profit seeking war-monger be DAMNED!!!
John McCain wanted to follow Osama bin Laden at the Gates of Hell. (Whether or not Hell exists, it's a colorful metaphor!) Obama and the liberal left want to bend over backward to make every accommodation for the poisonous lies of the towel heads.
Just look at the horrible media today, Muslim terrorists sending bombs by cargo plane! The media is guilty for Islam bashing isn't it?
They shouldn't mention these incidents, shouldn’t they.
These terrorists do not have anything to do with Islam, besides they pray 5 times a day, get educated in mosques how to treat the unbelievers and so on. That’s only quran which is violent, Islam is not isn’t it? And Muslims do not understand quran violence! They only practice it!
@malsifood you will struggle to find a mainstream monotheistic religion which does not contain within it's scriptures references to bloodletting and war. What you and these terrorists do not realise is that there are strict guidelines, rules of engagements. Now, I don't for a moment pressume that you support western military attacks on civilians. In the same way I do not accept or in any way justify acts of indiscriminate killing done apparently in the name of Islam or muslim suffering.
@malsifood oh here we go, ur quick to point out how some stupid terrorist send bombs in packages but nothing about the hundreds of thousands that have died in Iraq and afghanistan(civilians) , but which you would call collateral damage, you are the most henious , shameless individual who has a personal vendetta agaisnt a peaceful religion, as ignorant as you are, who probably went to school, imagine what these uneducated individuals think about christianity dropping bombs every day.
@asf4321 Some times the prophet ask to respect the people of the book, other to slaughter them, depending on the "revelation"... Are christians allowed to open churchs in Saudi arabia? Are secular, atheist, minorities tolerated? I am not sure... In Egypt the copts are less than second class citizens. I am yet to see one muslim intellectual criticizing the treatment of minorities in the arab/islamic world.
buddy, when your people pillaged and colonized the world, my people spent centuries fighting the muslims...my ancestors displayed ottoman heads as trophies so don't lecture me on the muslim world. and i am also aware that christians also have blood on their hands. the man here is trying to fight against centuries of hatred from both sides. he is trying to get to the core of the problem, and he speaks critically of both sides. that is what i admire, and you are fucking dumb not to see
how many nations, tribes, and peoples has the western christian church an ALL its denominations forcibly convert and exploit? what about inquisitions?? and are not the muslims second class citizens in europe today???
we should never fall into the trap of our biases but look at both sides of the story. i just read this guys book and he has a point. on the other hand i am embarrassed that you as a fellow canadian would speak such nonsense.
@asf4321 First of all I suggest you keep away from name calling, second I am not sure why you put Canadians in such a high esteem. I mean they did elect a reactionary prime Minster after all. Third just because your so called people committed act of savagery against muslims, it does not make you an expert on the religion. Fourth, why you do you assume that I belong to the colonizers tribe.
yes it does make me an expert on the religion ..500 years we lived with them side by side as their slaves or as their overlords so yes i am an expert. and not just religion but culture as well!!
you condemn this you condemn that... you are completely off the point i am speaking here of dr. ramadan's balanced and critical view of the issues that NO ONE denies except you! "muslims against gays muslims against minorities".. no one is fucking denying it you idiot
@asf4321 I might well be an open minded Muslim who is condemning my own community for practices of intolerance against other minorities, including gays that is. There is a saying in Arabic that goes as follow: Daweeha bi alti hia a7ssan. But of course you are not an Arab nor a Muslim to understand that.
@asf4321 Further more just because the west committed historical (and current) atrocities it doesn’t mean that minorities and women in the Muslim word, in accordance with the infamous sharia laws, should be put at a disadvantage. I suggest you bundle up and have some tea you proud Canadian….
..so stop going back to it. these people have different values and beliefs..& both muslims & others FAIL to see commonalities & FAIL to live with mutual tolerance and respect. that is the whole point of this discussion and here you are criticizing a man that is AWARE of all that and is trying to talk about it ..& all i hear is "sharia law" "gay rights" ...did you even bother to loook at the video ? i have no idea what you find unreasonable?? tell me what the fuck is unreasonable here
@asf4321 Your relativism is a bit naive.... The debate should include a theological debate about the text itself. Which verse is to take literally and which is to take symbolically... I find all these apologist like yourself and these debaters here full of slippery slop. Frankly, i am not sure why we should even bother with these archaic laws "revealed" 1500 years ago by some bedouin, delusional warrior. Reform should start by questioning the relevance of these texts to our times.
do you even know what relativism is? how am i being a relativist????
you are an idiot and there is no need to continue this discussion... whatever rational person reads what i wrote will understand...you on the other hand dont even bother reading my comments much less having the cognitive capacity to understand them.
text bible, gur'an, whateverrrr is not the point here in this video. its not a point anywhere.. human actions are which is what is being dealt with here
theological debate whats right and wrong.. spoken like a true westerner...
you think all the secrets are in the stupid text. you explored the bible too.. your exploration was so thorough that there are thousands denominations that cannot agree on jack shit. much less form a moral consensus...and even if they do will the people who spend their lives spending, consuming, "freeing" themselves ever obey??
without wisdom and knowledge taken in through the heart all that is EMPTY text.
this lesbian should know ot ask why the same Danish newspaper before the muslma cartoons refused to post cartoons depicting the Christ. Another double standard? also Rose Flaming visited Daniel Pipe the sionist leader who agreed to participate in a orchestastration allowing the danish public to accept to send more tropps to Afghanistan
I admire Manji as a Muslim...there should be many muslim women like her...she is an inspiration and intelligent muslim woman....calling her Kaffir is ridiculous..that kind of attitude is a reflection of an ancient tribal mentality that is pervasive in muslim countires.
@Mirpuri420 I do not understand Islam...why I am oblige to understand islam? Do I oblige you to understand my religion. Hindus and Buddhists live with us, eat with us and work with us..and we are all happy and live in peace...we do not fear each other..yet we do not know each other religion. What is so freaking special with Islam?
@samlarsenwrites sorry but she is far from being a Muslim and my judgement is not about the make up, hair cut or the cloths...it is about what she is saying which reflect no muslims but her self!!and with no Islamic ideas. Tariq Ramadan is the man.
@InitialDAmine I respect your views about her but I disagree with your comments of who she is relative to Islam. She is not a typical muslim woman, like PM Benazir Bhutto of Pakistan. I am in fact happy to hear that a muslim woman has the honesty to study and look at Islam from another perspective, a woman's perspective and discuss it in public. I think she doing islam a favor so that the negative stereotype of Islam in public mind is modified in a positive way.
@samlarsenwrites You can't be a muslim while doing the capital sins and saying some none Islamic or making some terrible mistakes when mentioning the sources.
Tariq is the man because he is a real intelectual and real knowledge, sure his english doesn't reflect that as much at least not as much as his french but i suggest you to look on his works
@InitialDAmine Then probably half the Imams and muslims are non-muslims? For example most Afghans men and Pakistani Pashtons practice homosexuality. Prostitution and drinking alcohol is legal in Morocco and Tunisia. Iranian and Iraqi Shia practice nikah muta. So are they muslims or no?
@samlarsenwrites then you are talking about what you don't know and you are plainely wrong.And probably not a muslim i don't know.First of all you won't find an Imam doing a capital sin and neither small ones btw if he does he won't be an Imam, the Imam is choosen among a group of persons and by this group for his sagess and knowdlege on Islam which would be higher than the other..
@InitialDAmine You are hilarious. I wont find imam doing capital sin? You innocent fool.
Saudi authorities arrested an imam – Islamic preacher – who is suspected of carrying out several burglaries, a press report said on Tuesday.
“The Saudi man is suspected to have been involved in burgling several shops and engaging in some other illegal activities,” a local police source told Arab News. 12/8/2008
@Santiso1962 first of all stealing is NOT a capital sin so i invite you to get you fact straight, second you have to understand that Imam is NOT A JOB it is not like a Priest, and Imam is someone with the highest knowledge and which is highly respect of a group that this groupe agrees on to lead the Selat....
third was the suspection proved porsitive and the man was really stealing?
A 48-year-old imam who teaches children about the Koran has been charged with sexually molesting an 11-year-old female student.
According to the charge sheet the incidents are alleged to have occurred in August and September 2009 in the girl's family home south of Stockholm. The 48-year-old was a regular visitor to the apartment and taught the girl and her 14-year-old elder brother about the Koran and the Arabic language.
@InitialDAmine A Bosnian court has found an Imam guilty of sexually abusing an underage girl and sentenced him to 18 months in prison, in a case that shocked Bosnia and stirred up tensions between local media organizations and the country’s influential Islamic Community.
The family of the girl pressed charges against the Imam last year, accusing him of sexually molesting their underage daughter during religion classes.
@InitialDAmine In Tunisia it is legal...in Morocco it is prostitution is illegal but what's the law declaring it illegal is not implemented...Prostitutes abound in Casablanca and Rabat and Tangiers. So what is the point?
@Santiso1962 are you an imbecile? so if we folowing your logic, killing someone is illegal by the law, and because there are criminales the laws are useless?
@samlarsenwrites my point was quite clear on the matter a LAW is a LAW so no derailling plz. Who knows what would be the consequence of prostution, destroyed families, aids and other sexual diseases, bastard children ect ect ect, it is the same as alchool and driving nothing is hapening the moment you want to drive but something is more likely to happen afterwards....
And just to folow my logic , why there are laws that forbiden nudity?or driving bare foot? ect ect
@InitialDAmine Well, I guess some are smarter than others. Islamic Tunisia found it smarter to legalize prostitution. They are able to control it in one place, supervise the health concerns. Prostitutes do not roam around the streets and expose the women to rapes and killing. I think it is a better choice.
@samlarsenwrites what did you find smarter? prostitution is illegal in Tunisia as in Morocco i can't believe you trust such propagandas from the people that wants to ruine Islam image just the exemple for the guy that made an account just to make up lies and he coudn't even answer me.Check you mails i sent you a wiki link in which you can check the Appendice.
@InitialDAmine You got it wrong mate. If prostitution is illegal in Tunisia, explain to me the whore houses in the medina. It is an irony actually because the medina in Tunis is declared a World Heritage site by the Untied Nations. It would appear as if prostitution is part of cultural heritage. Maybe you have not seen the whorehouses or Red Light District but it is there. If you like we can go together, pick our girls together and we can have sex orgies right there at the medina.
@samlarsenwrites 1-I've given you what the law states which says clearly prostitution is ILLIGAL, if you get caught you get punished by the law.
2-Illegal doesn't mean it doesn't exist i ve given you clear exemple crime is illegal doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
3-You don't even know what you are talking about, Medina is the arabic word which refers to City, which is used nowadays to refers to the old city and of course it is a UN world heritage not only Tunis but alot of maghreb Medinas.
@InitialDAmine Whatever the law says is irrelevant when the actual practice is otherwise. Again, in Tunisia prostitution is legal,. No one gets arrested, the customers and the prostitutes or the shop owners who operate the brothels. Government doctors go there the shops to check the health of the women. Again I invite you to come with me in Tunis..let us go to the medina, We can have beer or coffee at Boulevard Habib Bouguiba afterwards.
@samlarsenwrites Sorry you keep insisting with a guilible argument, you can also find drog dealers and buy drog from them aswell doesn't mean they are LEGAL
@samlarsenwrites i told you i've been living in morocco for 17years, i was born there and grown up there i know the Maghreb culture and way of thinking. And i clearly stated Prostution exist but it is illegal if you get caught you are in trouble.
@InitialDAmine Please tell me your thoughts about this verse in the Quran:
[5:51] O you who believe, do not take certain Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them. GOD does not guide the transgressors.
@samlarsenwrites Ok I've got the Coran in front of me you say sourate 5 Ayat or versse 51 and there is no such thing. And i read Arabic and My Coran is in arabic so post the correct thing location.
@InitialDAmine You made a general statement that Imam is someone with the highest knowledge and highly respected. I posted several news items about Imams caught in different kinds of crimes. I do not want to embarrass you, but to prove to you that they are humans like the rest of us. We should be careful about elevating them into such a high pedestal because, like Christian priests, Imams have weaknesses too.
@Santiso1962 you do not want to embarasse me? is this how you are making an excuse to you self to not answer me? you didn't even answer me, or you can't??!
@samlarsenwrites 1-Pakistani men practice homosexuality?wrong if you are taking the anecdote to generalse to other people is plainly false and can't be taken as argumentation.
2-Prostitution and alchool are ILLEGAL in morocco and tunisia the only thing allowed is selling them like hotels in bars for tourists for exemple, locals can buy them but once caught drinking in public for exemple they pay the price.
@InitialDAmine Anecdote? You are less informed about your culture. Have you heard Bacha Bazi? You heard about Kandahar, the gay capital of central asia?
Prostitution illegal in Tunisia and Morocco-Stupid Fool-come with me, I will tour you at the Medina
Prostitution Illegal in Morocco and Tunisia-Stop peddling your dis-information about this countries. You might get arrested.
@Santiso1962 I wonder who's the stupid fool here, I'am a Moroccan and i grow and morocco till my 20s and u know what i m talking about, Porstitution is illegal by LAW so don't try to impress anyway with you lies.
@InitialDAmine Well I do not know about your law but I have been to morocco and tunisia twice. I enjoyed the company of beautiful prostitutes we pick up at Boulevard Mohammed V and Boulevard d'Anfa. There are so many I thought it was legal. If it is illegal why there are so many. The medina in Tunis is like that of Netherlands. Prostitution is everywhere, so I don't think it is big deal. The big deal is when it is denied.
@Santiso1962 took you much to answer huh?I m sure you went no where and you have this account just for the troll and to make lies an spread fake propaganda, next time make a consistant account that doesn't betray you.
@samlarsenwrites 3-Again you are taking the anecdote and trying to generalise to other people wich is plainely wrong, i ll let you search on the matter and tell me how much people on these population do such thing.
@farhan00 who gives the shit about your Islamic greeting? we are free people...our ancestors fought and died for us to have the freedom of expression..Yours did not ....I know you Muslims never fought for anything resembeling anything close the Universla Human rights of all of us , you just pushing your Islam and its shitty backward dogmas on the rest ..
I givah shit who you are ..or where you from...Whenever some crap goes on in the Middle East I hear raving Muslims with their Allahu Akhbar Takbeer on our streets ...--those are not Americans ...those are invaders , fifth columnists ...and you maybe one of them..oh well, one nice day , it all will come to the end ...it will be ugly ..but will be the end of Islam in the West
you are not cave men....you look like us, you talk like us , yet you re fossils with the 7th century mentality....felling hurt and entitled to push the medieval shit you follow on the rest of us and demanding respect for it , since supposedly you are followers of THE religion..
We have dealt with such idiocy 400-600 years ago , when some fucks in their overblown self-bestowed delusional sense of entitlement that you have today ,as well, were ordering the rest of us around since they supposedly too were the true believers and the rest then were the enemies of god...
well, that you are acting like that ---that is understandable , what can one expect of Muslims ? as I said, you are fossils , your thinking is stuck somewhere between 7th and 12th European century but the fact that the West had not learnt that lesson..well, it will be repeated then again... ..and not for you to compete with me in putting out sarcastic jokes!!
@Kbrt111 What can I say? Clearly your intelligence has 'pwnd' me, because I'm just a Muslim caveman, right? I'm stuck in the 7th century Europe, despite being American...but you said I'm just Middle Eastern.
Have I have been pwned by your profound intellect?
@farhan00 you right ...you are just a Middle Eastern..and like a little spoiled child who learned finally to talk as an adult yet not to think -- trying to immitate ...
and the West ----is an irresponsible parent that allows the spoiled and somewhat evil child (Muslims ) to run around and wreck a havoc ..to tell Muslims to get over it and grow up ---is useless. Muslims , as children (somewhere before age 11) , do not have facilities to understand what is growing up means, let alone getting over it..
@Kbrt111 So, I am 100% middle-eastern, despite never having been to the middle east, nor are my parents from there, nor is my citizenship from any middle eastern country, nor have I even VISITED there.
@farhan00 note that it any of my business but i seriously believe that ur wastin ur time with this kbrt .. If u have to debate on youtube with someone then debate with someone who uses their intellect and can articulate good arguments.. other than that, it's a complete waste of time!!
Of course having honor / shame based culture does not help.
slovokia 3 months ago
How many embassies of muslim nations get burned? How many lfags of muslim countries get burned? Why do muslims claim a right to not be offended by what happens in the west?
slovokia 3 months ago
People think Irshad is a lesbian. Nope, did her once and she's damn straight. Tell them already Irshad.
wagnersear 8 months ago
The problem is the cartoons? How stupid do they think people are? There are no limitations to freedom of speech.
KenMacMillan 11 months ago 3
@KenMacMillan yes there are you are stupid freedom of speech becomes limited when you offend a certain race,religion or country.
mahdi0123456789 10 months ago
@mahdi0123456789 No, the truth is that you don't have the right to not be offended. If you're offended then tough shit, I can't expect someone who lives in a socialist country to understand freedom. They killed a man in the street for drawing a picture. I'm sure you think there's nothing wr
KenMacMillan 10 months ago
@KenMacMillan you dont even know what you are talking about can you say bomb on a plane no. can you threaten someone no. and if the thing you say hurts over a billion people then is just tough? you sound stupid. would you put up with somenone if they drew you mom or dad in a degrading way on the newspaper that over 5 million read i guess not.
mahdi0123456789 10 months ago
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@mahdi0123456789 " you dont even know what you are talking about can you say bomb on a plane no. can you threaten someone no. and if the thing you say hurts over a billion people then is just tough?"
Doesn't matter if I insult a billion people or one person. Same fucking thing. Get over yourself.
DamLazyFuk 8 months ago
@KenMacMillan no limitations? so i can express myself by calling you're mother a whore? or calling Christians mindless freaks? that's the dumbest thing i have heard today... OF COURSE there are limitations, you have your freedom of expression, but we have to draw the line when it comes to INSULTING a faith. This cartoon was deliberately made ONLY to insult, not to convey any message or critical thinking whatsoever, only to INSULT. however the reaction was still exaggerated...
yougonasorry 1 month ago
@yougonasorry You most certainly can express yourself by calling someone's mother a whore & christians mindless freaks. It happens all the time. We do not draw the line when it comes to insulting a faith unless the followers of that faith will murder you in cold blood like the scum that they are.
KenMacMillan 1 month ago
@KenMacMillan No,like the ignorant you are,you should no that if you continuously insulted someone in public you could get arrested for 'public indecency' now that is just another term for not respecting other people. It's quite despicable that some people with your mentality consider THAT as freedom of speech (no critical thinking, no moral values to argue about,nada,NOTHING, just plain simply insulting the prophet) and you consider THAT as freedom of speech, absolutely disgusting
yougonasorry 1 month ago
@yougonasorry That is exactly the type of speech that needs to be defended. You don't have to defend speech like "Hey, nice hat".
KenMacMillan 1 month ago
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@KenMacMillan are you a complete retard?? that has NOTHING to do with 'hey nice hat' it is PLAIN SIMPLY A PROVOCATION, this caricature has been created plain simply to provoke,do you speak English??? like i said no critical thinking or messages behind it nothing NADA. now if you don't understand that then you are intentionally just trolling and wasting my time or you just have a mental deficiency to understand it. I don't see any other explanation
yougonasorry 1 month ago
@KenMacMillan of course I'm not defending the reaction some extremists had such as calling for the beheading of the artists or something, but i COMPLETELY understand where their anger comes from. Freedom of expression YES, but we DO draw the line when it comes to plain simply wanting to INSULT without any intellectual or critical message behind it, just simply provoke and call it freedom of speech, that's absolutely retarded. You KNOW they will get angry, so why do it? dumbass...
yougonasorry 1 month ago
It's evil by design & must be removed from all western cultures. Islam must go.
KenMacMillan 11 months ago
Tariq has evil eyes.
apostatesspeak 1 year ago
im glad to hear all the criticism about irshad from muslims, she is far to intelligent and liberal to be calling herself a muslim and your hatfull very islamic behaviour will finally allow her to break the chains of religion
biggidy1st 1 year ago
Irshad sounds more like an anti-muslim. She's a lesbian and that's not a sign of being respectful to God. I don't mean to offend a certain people.
fredfelosofar 1 year ago
@fredfelosofar You speak the truth. She's using her "muslim faith" as a ploitical tool to add some kind of credibility to her agenda.
blackstars56 1 year ago 4
I think the two gentelman are more reasonable than the woman.
Anotherwords what she is saying its ok to insult our prophet (PUH).
amareto35 1 year ago
@amareto35 No, it's called freedom. Freedom of speech. A concept that has existed in the Western world for hundreds of years, a concept that has made the Western world so much better that millions and millions of Muslims leave Islamic countries and move to Western countries.
The problem with Muslims is they hate their own countries, move from their own Islamic societies, and then don't understand freedom. You live in the US, you have freedom to thank to be able to say what you want. Respect it
CloseTheseEyes 10 months ago
@CloseTheseEyes "a concept that has existed in the western world".. are you sure about that ? I don't know if you "know" a country called "Austria".. If you deny Holocaust, you will go to jail for 3 years.. Germany you can't even say heil Hitler, let alone to deny it.. So please, think before you make any comments and don't embarrass yourself....
When the west is offending Muslim religion, is freedom of speech..When I offend holocaust, I'll go to jail for 3 years.. You can't have both ways...
amareto35 9 months ago
@amareto35 A religion is a set of non-physical beliefs, the holocaust was the systematic gassing of millions of people. Spot the difference you backwards primitive?
A belief system cannot be offended, and a religion cannot hold such sensitivities. It would be wrong to criticise the holocaust just as it would be wrong to deny the killing of Palestinians in Gaza, you need to differentiate religious beliefs with denying world massacres.
You have more freedom in Europe than in the Middle East.
CloseTheseEyes 9 months ago
@CloseTheseEyes Look, I do not need a lecture.. Please don't change the subject.. Define "freedom of speech".. Don't get confused, we are NOT talking about what's wrong and what's right.. We are talking about, can I say what EVER I want in the western world? Again, don't send me private messages, and let people see how smart you are....
amareto35 9 months ago
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@amareto35 "Define 'freedom of speech' "
Self-evident, isn't it?
"We are talking about, can I say what EVER I want in the western world?"
Here in the US, yes, as long as no there's no threat of violence behind the words.
DamLazyFuk 8 months ago
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@amareto35 "When I offend holocaust, I'll go to jail for 3 years.. You can't have both ways..."
Well, that's clearly wrong and a violation of free speech. Likewise, Muslims shouldn't be immune from insults or criticism.
DamLazyFuk 8 months ago
@CloseTheseEyes Well it's hasn't really existed for hundreds of years (depends on country) and it certainly havent been allowed for all in the west (lower classes)
Giagantus 3 months ago
manji told the truth about one thing... she is an unislamic advocate
take2skittles 1 year ago
irshad manji needs a deeeeeeeep dick'ín
najatgroothoofd 1 year ago
Cant stand that retarded bitch
twedimowni 1 year ago
Tariq Ramadan is saying that as soon as the people in the Muslim countries have democracies and not dictators they will start to understand it......
That is bullshit!!
Islam is a religion in which pople are asked to subdue themselfs under a lider, and they are not asked to think for themselfs but repeat what is written in a ancient primitive script!
Democracy and islam is like oil and water!
Dictatorship is the system in Islam! Look at the muslim world! Dictatorships everywhere!!
malsifood 1 year ago
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anwarwhufc83 1 year ago
@anwarwhufc83
You dont have the guts to stand for what you say?
Did you mention Ghadafi dictator? Mullah dictators of iran?
Islamic dictators of Somalia, Sudan, Tchad, EAU, Quatar
Islam is for dictators, because muslims are not encouraged to think, islam wants people to be obediant and submissive!
Totally devoted to a dictator! (Allah or whoever)
malsifood 1 year ago
@malsifood I removed my comment, because when I reflected on it I questioned the point of it all. There's no point fanning flames to a subject where you have a fixed opinion and mine contrasts with that. Somalia has been left in a state of anarchy since the intervention there and it is a tradgedy. War lords have taken advantage of the vacuum that not having a stable, recognised government brings. We may see a similar development in Iraq. You cannot blame Islam for the actions of men.
anwarwhufc83 1 year ago
@anwarwhufc83
The one with fixed opinion is you!
Somalis has been in a state of anarchy since the country existed!
Or there was a dictator in the past, only benefiting his own tribe, now the dictators are these totalitarian Muslims!
Muslims all (i mean really all together) do have all the same fixed opinion!
Or you have that opinion or you are not a Muslim!
Muslims get that opinion in the mosques and they do not even verify if it is true!
malsifood 1 year ago
@malsifood the west loves a dictator, they love them. Until they turn against them as happened in Iraq most recently, but has happened in Cuba and Iran before. Two vile dictatorships sponsored by America and in Iran's case Britain also, then the regime changes and the 'super powers' are told to get lost and all hell breaks loose. Everyone think's their viewpoint is the right one...you, me, irshad manji whoever. The reality though is poor people the world over are getting done over.
anwarwhufc83 1 year ago
I totally agree with Tariq Ramadan that freedom of expression comes with responsibility. If your going to use it in provocative and immature manner, then don't be surprised if people act in that way. Just imagine if a skinhead provoked and used freedom of expression against black people or said the "N" word against Martin Luther King or Malcolm X.
I also think that Muslims should not react in the way that they do by burning and vandalizing things.
thethinkingmuslim 1 year ago
@TeraPeoPunjabi GET A FUCKING LIFE. you go around calling her a homo on every video she does? you think anybody cares?
btw, i bet you're in the closet. get over yourself you dumb muslim.
karlsmith00 1 year ago
@karlsmith00 TeraPeoPunjabi is a Punjabi - that speaks for itself in explanation of his retrograde morality and values.
kawaiigardiner 1 year ago
hey folks, usual muslim apologist "central" behaviour, comments above ^ ^ ^ lol !
throwbacks like them would sooner attack someone, than face the fact that their
behaviour is abhorrent & unacceptable....as for .& t.ramadan
perleeez! that er! pseudo intellectual, has lost all credibility, and has been laughed out of france
secula4eva 1 year ago
It still shocks me that in the 21st century, people still act like this. People talking about death because of a CARTOON. Its a bit monty python. Also, it gets on my nerves when people say something along the following lines..."i believe in freedom of speech, oh absolutely, but it has limits".
finchy633 1 year ago
If the first Amendment is toppled in this country, many of us will join together into a powerful faction to destroy the enemies of freedom and human rights. There is a right to bear arms in this nation that has in part fostered a more robust sense of individual liberty. Millions would consider it their duty to cast off the yoke of an overweening state. The Mohammedans don't get it...they would suffer, as your gods are my witnesses, and they would be ruined along with the rest of us.
MinisterAilingTongue 1 year ago
Who cares about this lesbian! She's not a scholar of Islam, she's not Middle Eastern, she doesn't speak Farsi, or Arabic or Turkish, so how would she know what internal dialogue and developments are happening in Muslim civil societies. She's one of those shameless brown people who have made their services available to the Empire to justify the brutal imperialistic onslaught. She's irrelevant.
Nejiboud 1 year ago
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@Nejiboud
allez sale blanc ramène moi des bébés arabo-musulman, j'ai la trique mon frére wallah la mecque, la france sera islamopédophiliser en 2012.
MAROCCANPEDOPHILE 1 year ago
@Nejiboud
wow, i can fell the love from your post. Allah would be very proud of you
childfreeman 1 year ago
They are asshole just like you.
pathan1k1 1 year ago
I'll admit that I don't really agree about the whole homosexuality thing being accepted in islam but I think we're being a over-board and hypocritical her main goal is to stop all this radical extreme violence : stoning women to death in third world countries oppression ,abuse all these unjust extreme acts are the main reason why Islam and muslims have this hate image portrayed by everyone and how do know that Manji is wrong? heck how do we know that we are right? at the end Allah decides that
Jokerchic411 1 year ago
How do you know that she's not one of those people who really aren't muslim, but are the ones that are trying to make the muslims look bad, I mean building a mosque for muslims can be a way of her to make people believe her, and her ways of becoming famous and showing the world false information about Islam. How in the world do you call your self a muslim, when you're a lesbian. And this is my freedom of speech..
Tdreamer240 1 year ago
All I'm saying is, why would she preach islam, when clearly she does not follow any of the rules? She doesn't even fall under the muslim category. How do you know that she's not one of those people who really aren't muslim,
Tdreamer240 1 year ago
Of all the creatures in the world will ye approach males". "And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!" - Holy Quran 26:165-166 If she is a true muslim, would she not act upon the Qur'an, because afterall, muslims are supposed to act upon the Qur'an,her building a mosque for the lesbians/gays does not make any sense at all. So how can she judge other muslim?
Tdreamer240 1 year ago
There are various verses in Quran where Allah clearly says about Homosexuality. What happened to the land of Sodom and Gomorah, and its gay people?According to the Holy Quran Allah destroyed the land and killed all of its people, We also (sent) Lut: he said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? "For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." - Holy Quran 7:80-81
Tdreamer240 1 year ago
Irshad Manji is a lesbian. whereas clearly Homosexuality is not permitted in Islam and a lot of other religions. If she is a true muslim, would she not act upon the Qur'an, because afterall, muslims are supposed to act upon the Qur'an, her building a mosque for the homosexuals does not make any sense. So how can she judge other muslim? All I'm saying is, why would she preach islam, when clearly she does not follow any of the rules?
Tdreamer240 1 year ago
muslims have NO right not to be offended.
western culture has freedom of excuse so get used to it.
if you dont like it, go to one of the backward countries of the middle-east.
muslims should stop being crybabies and making excuses for violence, and just grow up, and accept the rough and tumble of debate just like everyone else does.
catveezle 1 year ago
This lesbo is making her services available to the Empire's need since September 11th to find any and every reason to demonise Islam and Muslims, so that the carnage, war and imperialism that is unleashed on Muslim countries is justified. The US is the chief sponsor of state terrorism, as it is the ONE that funds, arms, protects and props all of the brutal oppressive dictatorships in the Middle East.
Nejiboud 1 year ago
@Nejiboud: Oh, look at the widdle man beating up on and insulting a woman because she has a different view of Islam that he does! Archie Bunker/Alf Gannett have nothing on you, a loser who parrots whatever his imam says and can't think for himself. THINK FOR YOURSELF instead of being a mindless religious zombie.
Neville6000 1 year ago
@Neville6000
Silly idiot, my opposition to imperialist onslaught is not religiously driven, and you are stupid for assuming that I'm Muslim, I'm Greek Orthodox Christian.
Nejiboud 1 year ago
So the idea is that freedom of speech should be suppressed because it might be offensive to a bunch of illiterates who think that violence is the answer to everything. Why is in never the fault of these Muslims and that everyone else must cater to them?
highstakes136 1 year ago
Brother Ramadan exudes confidence and eloquence... He's a true academic and a great example of a true, educated, well-read Muslim...
honidizzle 1 year ago
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honidizzle 1 year ago
they need a million, like ishad, to drag their sorry asses out of the dark ages
go irshad
secula4eva 1 year ago
more deceitful doublespeak babble from ramadan,(as usual)
muslims have NO right not to be offended, they better get used to it.
their intolerant/backward attitude, shows their intellectual inferiority
and that of their flawed book.
secula4eva 1 year ago
irshad is a whore.
WorldIslamicOrder 1 year ago
the only reason Irshad Manji is being known in the western world is because the west media outlets love any muslim bashing, and there she gets her 15 mins of glory..any outspoken activist of islam is a cheerleader on foxnews and cnn.
zee687 1 year ago 19
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samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
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@zee687 You are wrong. I don't think she is bashing Islam..I think she is expounding Islam for Christians from a woman's perspective. Her views on Islam are similar to the views expressed by Saudi and Bahraini women. Quran have been expounded only by the Imams They corrupted Quran by issuing so many fatwas. Most muslims are confused which one is correct.
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites I've been wondering and wanted to ask you this are you a muslim?
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine I do not confirm nor deny. It is better that I discuss outside the horizon of religion..I understand Salman Rushdie and Ayaan Ali decided to abandon religion altogether because religion posed a threat to their lives. Religion tends to polarize people. There are those who discuss religion not to understand. They come to the table ready to prove each other wrong, not to find common ground but to dig the differences, blow it up and defeat and humiliate each other.
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites cont..I admire Tariq, Ramadan, Irshad and Nadim Shehadi because they seem introspective and encourage self-examination of Islam as a religion and its practices without bashing Islam or Christianity. Muslims themselves must examine Islam and its many incoherent practices. Islam has many faces in the eyes of non-muslims because Islam is practiced differently in every Islamic state. Muslims themselves are surprised at what other muslims say about Islam.
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites there is a diffrence between real islam and countries politics.
As for for Ramadam he is an intelectuel which is highly respected worldwide from Japan passing by europe to the USA and which i respect as for Irshad excuse me but sometime she is talking about stuff she doesn't know and the only reason she is acting and saying what the west want to hear and so she can sell her books and what so ever.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine Well, Irshad Manji have a different perspective on Islam because she is Yemeni woman educated in the West. You are a man, and I am sure this is the first time you witnessed an eloquent muslim woman who speak about Islam in another way. The reaction of muslim men to muslim women activist is severe. Bahrain media bans Ghada Jamseer from appearing on TV. Arab reaction to Saudi journalist Nadine al Bedair was also severe because she questions polygamy . Do you like polygamy?
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites nope not really she is wrong on the whole line.and she is not a Muslim. I am a mean doesn't mean i never had contact with woman and their Idioligy starting with my familly to the view of many other european countries that i visited.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine Well... thanks..at least you have found something true in what she say about Islam...I did not expect you to agree totally....I will be very concerned if you cannot see anything truthful about her at all.
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites for got to add country politics and historical culture.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites no because your knowledge about seems alot of time inacurrate and about the Islamic countries.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine Again, you can disagree with me all you want..I will respect that...but I listen to many ordinary muslims, "Islamic scholars" and the Imams...I look at the culture, politics and history and I see a lot of dissonance. That is why I said muslims sometimes are surprised at what other muslims are saying about their religion. I do not pretend to be Islamic scholar....but notice that scholars at Al-Azar University, the mullahs in turkey, Saudi cannot even agree on as niqab.
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites sure you have you point of view and you respect her, i don't and i told you why with argument, and from the begining my point was on objectif argumentation and not the subjecif feelings that you have.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@zee687 exactly
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@zee687 its always amusing to see a non-muslim woman being asked to represent views of Muslim women.
pengo2007 1 year ago
@zee687 Right, well then why is Tariq Ramadan, the casuistic poster boy for hazy Islamo-wank, constantly afforded airtime by these so-called Muslim-hating Western media outlets? Do media outlets in Muslim majority countries offer the same platform for Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins to vent their opinions?
disdanic 1 year ago
@disdanic Amen, brother (or sister)!
MinisterAilingTongue 1 year ago
@zee687 (Islam Sensitization)=(Fetish of Liberal Media)
(Freedom of Expression)=(Anything that Mohammedans don't mind Hearing, Seeing, Rumoring)
Islamic sensitivities be DAMNED.
Mohammed, his supreme wooliness the profit seeking war-monger be DAMNED!!!
John McCain wanted to follow Osama bin Laden at the Gates of Hell. (Whether or not Hell exists, it's a colorful metaphor!) Obama and the liberal left want to bend over backward to make every accommodation for the poisonous lies of the towel heads.
MinisterAilingTongue 1 year ago
@zee687
so, any critical analysis of islam is not allowed?
childfreeman 1 year ago
@zee687
so, any critical analysis of islam is not allowed?
childfreeman 1 year ago
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@zee687
so, any critical analysis of islam is not allowed?
childfreeman 1 year ago
@zee687
Just look at the horrible media today, Muslim terrorists sending bombs by cargo plane! The media is guilty for Islam bashing isn't it?
They shouldn't mention these incidents, shouldn’t they.
These terrorists do not have anything to do with Islam, besides they pray 5 times a day, get educated in mosques how to treat the unbelievers and so on. That’s only quran which is violent, Islam is not isn’t it? And Muslims do not understand quran violence! They only practice it!
malsifood 1 year ago
@malsifood you will struggle to find a mainstream monotheistic religion which does not contain within it's scriptures references to bloodletting and war. What you and these terrorists do not realise is that there are strict guidelines, rules of engagements. Now, I don't for a moment pressume that you support western military attacks on civilians. In the same way I do not accept or in any way justify acts of indiscriminate killing done apparently in the name of Islam or muslim suffering.
anwarwhufc83 1 year ago
@malsifood oh here we go, ur quick to point out how some stupid terrorist send bombs in packages but nothing about the hundreds of thousands that have died in Iraq and afghanistan(civilians) , but which you would call collateral damage, you are the most henious , shameless individual who has a personal vendetta agaisnt a peaceful religion, as ignorant as you are, who probably went to school, imagine what these uneducated individuals think about christianity dropping bombs every day.
zee687 1 year ago
@zee687
It is not “some stupid terrorist”!
The quran says that all Muslims must fight the people from the book (Christians and Jews) and the unbelievers!
You Muslims at first change that stupid quran, otherwise I have the right to call you all terrorists!
And secondly: Recognize the UN human rights declaration!
No Islamic dominated country and no Islamic organization does recognize the UN international human rights declaration!
We humans have the Human Rights, Sharia is for monkeys!
malsifood 1 year ago
@malsifood
actually their prophet has called for respecting the "people of the book".
asf4321 1 year ago
@asf4321
but only until they pay Jizya (protection tax) with their own hands and feel themselves subdued 9:29
You stupid Muslims are just trying to deceive! That is what the quran also tells you!
Oh you just created your channel to answer my comment and then you deleted it! What a childish coward decision!
malsifood 1 year ago
@malsifood
i'm not muslim you idiot
my channel has been on for 3 years thank you.
i think you're a coward that is too afraid to discuss this openly on this video because you are too uneducated to have a normal debate.
you're a tard that just turned retard
asf4321 1 year ago
@asf4321
well your channel is blocked to anyone!
malsifood 1 year ago
@asf4321 Some times the prophet ask to respect the people of the book, other to slaughter them, depending on the "revelation"... Are christians allowed to open churchs in Saudi arabia? Are secular, atheist, minorities tolerated? I am not sure... In Egypt the copts are less than second class citizens. I am yet to see one muslim intellectual criticizing the treatment of minorities in the arab/islamic world.
Bonyloft 1 year ago
@Bonyloft
buddy, when your people pillaged and colonized the world, my people spent centuries fighting the muslims...my ancestors displayed ottoman heads as trophies so don't lecture me on the muslim world. and i am also aware that christians also have blood on their hands. the man here is trying to fight against centuries of hatred from both sides. he is trying to get to the core of the problem, and he speaks critically of both sides. that is what i admire, and you are fucking dumb not to see
asf4321 1 year ago
@Bonyloft
how many nations, tribes, and peoples has the western christian church an ALL its denominations forcibly convert and exploit? what about inquisitions?? and are not the muslims second class citizens in europe today???
we should never fall into the trap of our biases but look at both sides of the story. i just read this guys book and he has a point. on the other hand i am embarrassed that you as a fellow canadian would speak such nonsense.
asf4321 1 year ago
@asf4321 First of all I suggest you keep away from name calling, second I am not sure why you put Canadians in such a high esteem. I mean they did elect a reactionary prime Minster after all. Third just because your so called people committed act of savagery against muslims, it does not make you an expert on the religion. Fourth, why you do you assume that I belong to the colonizers tribe.
Bonyloft 1 year ago
@Bonyloft
yes it does make me an expert on the religion ..500 years we lived with them side by side as their slaves or as their overlords so yes i am an expert. and not just religion but culture as well!!
you condemn this you condemn that... you are completely off the point i am speaking here of dr. ramadan's balanced and critical view of the issues that NO ONE denies except you! "muslims against gays muslims against minorities".. no one is fucking denying it you idiot
asf4321 1 year ago
@asf4321 I might well be an open minded Muslim who is condemning my own community for practices of intolerance against other minorities, including gays that is. There is a saying in Arabic that goes as follow: Daweeha bi alti hia a7ssan. But of course you are not an Arab nor a Muslim to understand that.
Bonyloft 1 year ago
@asf4321 Further more just because the west committed historical (and current) atrocities it doesn’t mean that minorities and women in the Muslim word, in accordance with the infamous sharia laws, should be put at a disadvantage. I suggest you bundle up and have some tea you proud Canadian….
Bonyloft 1 year ago
@Bonyloft
..so stop going back to it. these people have different values and beliefs..& both muslims & others FAIL to see commonalities & FAIL to live with mutual tolerance and respect. that is the whole point of this discussion and here you are criticizing a man that is AWARE of all that and is trying to talk about it ..& all i hear is "sharia law" "gay rights" ...did you even bother to loook at the video ? i have no idea what you find unreasonable?? tell me what the fuck is unreasonable here
asf4321 1 year ago
@asf4321 Your relativism is a bit naive.... The debate should include a theological debate about the text itself. Which verse is to take literally and which is to take symbolically... I find all these apologist like yourself and these debaters here full of slippery slop. Frankly, i am not sure why we should even bother with these archaic laws "revealed" 1500 years ago by some bedouin, delusional warrior. Reform should start by questioning the relevance of these texts to our times.
Bonyloft 1 year ago
@Bonyloft
do you even know what relativism is? how am i being a relativist????
you are an idiot and there is no need to continue this discussion... whatever rational person reads what i wrote will understand...you on the other hand dont even bother reading my comments much less having the cognitive capacity to understand them.
text bible, gur'an, whateverrrr is not the point here in this video. its not a point anywhere.. human actions are which is what is being dealt with here
asf4321 1 year ago
@Bonyloft
theological debate whats right and wrong.. spoken like a true westerner...
you think all the secrets are in the stupid text. you explored the bible too.. your exploration was so thorough that there are thousands denominations that cannot agree on jack shit. much less form a moral consensus...and even if they do will the people who spend their lives spending, consuming, "freeing" themselves ever obey??
without wisdom and knowledge taken in through the heart all that is EMPTY text.
asf4321 1 year ago
stupid dike
Sarwer20 1 year ago
this lesbian should know ot ask why the same Danish newspaper before the muslma cartoons refused to post cartoons depicting the Christ. Another double standard? also Rose Flaming visited Daniel Pipe the sionist leader who agreed to participate in a orchestastration allowing the danish public to accept to send more tropps to Afghanistan
alfredomafioso 1 year ago
Manji is without doubt, Kaffir, ... i dont know how they allow her to represent Muslims, shes is clear cut Kaffir.
Mirpuri420 1 year ago
@Mirpuri420
I admire Manji as a Muslim...there should be many muslim women like her...she is an inspiration and intelligent muslim woman....calling her Kaffir is ridiculous..that kind of attitude is a reflection of an ancient tribal mentality that is pervasive in muslim countires.
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites
Thats because you have no understanding of Islam, and you dont know what a Muslim is, and what Muslim suppose to be like, and what Islam teaches ...
Mirpuri420 1 year ago
@Mirpuri420 I do not understand Islam...why I am oblige to understand islam? Do I oblige you to understand my religion. Hindus and Buddhists live with us, eat with us and work with us..and we are all happy and live in peace...we do not fear each other..yet we do not know each other religion. What is so freaking special with Islam?
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites sorry but she is far from being a Muslim and my judgement is not about the make up, hair cut or the cloths...it is about what she is saying which reflect no muslims but her self!!and with no Islamic ideas. Tariq Ramadan is the man.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine I respect your views about her but I disagree with your comments of who she is relative to Islam. She is not a typical muslim woman, like PM Benazir Bhutto of Pakistan. I am in fact happy to hear that a muslim woman has the honesty to study and look at Islam from another perspective, a woman's perspective and discuss it in public. I think she doing islam a favor so that the negative stereotype of Islam in public mind is modified in a positive way.
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites You can't be a muslim while doing the capital sins and saying some none Islamic or making some terrible mistakes when mentioning the sources.
Tariq is the man because he is a real intelectual and real knowledge, sure his english doesn't reflect that as much at least not as much as his french but i suggest you to look on his works
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine Then probably half the Imams and muslims are non-muslims? For example most Afghans men and Pakistani Pashtons practice homosexuality. Prostitution and drinking alcohol is legal in Morocco and Tunisia. Iranian and Iraqi Shia practice nikah muta. So are they muslims or no?
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites then you are talking about what you don't know and you are plainely wrong.And probably not a muslim i don't know.First of all you won't find an Imam doing a capital sin and neither small ones btw if he does he won't be an Imam, the Imam is choosen among a group of persons and by this group for his sagess and knowdlege on Islam which would be higher than the other..
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine You are hilarious. I wont find imam doing capital sin? You innocent fool.
Saudi authorities arrested an imam – Islamic preacher – who is suspected of carrying out several burglaries, a press report said on Tuesday.
“The Saudi man is suspected to have been involved in burgling several shops and engaging in some other illegal activities,” a local police source told Arab News. 12/8/2008
Santiso1962 1 year ago
@Santiso1962 first of all stealing is NOT a capital sin so i invite you to get you fact straight, second you have to understand that Imam is NOT A JOB it is not like a Priest, and Imam is someone with the highest knowledge and which is highly respect of a group that this groupe agrees on to lead the Selat....
third was the suspection proved porsitive and the man was really stealing?
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine Imam charged with sex offences
A 48-year-old imam who teaches children about the Koran has been charged with sexually molesting an 11-year-old female student.
According to the charge sheet the incidents are alleged to have occurred in August and September 2009 in the girl's family home south of Stockholm. The 48-year-old was a regular visitor to the apartment and taught the girl and her 14-year-old elder brother about the Koran and the Arabic language.
Santiso1962 1 year ago
@Santiso1962 ok give me the source i dare you. and again congratulation for finding the Anecdote, TRY harder.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@Santiso1962 and btw why are you derailing and avoiding answring me? are you disturbed with my questions?
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine A Bosnian court has found an Imam guilty of sexually abusing an underage girl and sentenced him to 18 months in prison, in a case that shocked Bosnia and stirred up tensions between local media organizations and the country’s influential Islamic Community.
The family of the girl pressed charges against the Imam last year, accusing him of sexually molesting their underage daughter during religion classes.
Santiso1962 1 year ago
@Santiso1962 so give me answers!!! or you can't ? figures!
So prostitution is legal in morocco in tunisia? go on impress me more with your lies
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine In Tunisia it is legal...in Morocco it is prostitution is illegal but what's the law declaring it illegal is not implemented...Prostitutes abound in Casablanca and Rabat and Tangiers. So what is the point?
Santiso1962 1 year ago
@Santiso1962 are you an imbecile? so if we folowing your logic, killing someone is illegal by the law, and because there are criminales the laws are useless?
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine No killing someone is a different matter because another life was destroyed or someone get hurt.
In prostitution who got hurt? What was destroyed?
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites my point was quite clear on the matter a LAW is a LAW so no derailling plz. Who knows what would be the consequence of prostution, destroyed families, aids and other sexual diseases, bastard children ect ect ect, it is the same as alchool and driving nothing is hapening the moment you want to drive but something is more likely to happen afterwards....
And just to folow my logic , why there are laws that forbiden nudity?or driving bare foot? ect ect
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine Well, I guess some are smarter than others. Islamic Tunisia found it smarter to legalize prostitution. They are able to control it in one place, supervise the health concerns. Prostitutes do not roam around the streets and expose the women to rapes and killing. I think it is a better choice.
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites what did you find smarter? prostitution is illegal in Tunisia as in Morocco i can't believe you trust such propagandas from the people that wants to ruine Islam image just the exemple for the guy that made an account just to make up lies and he coudn't even answer me.Check you mails i sent you a wiki link in which you can check the Appendice.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine You got it wrong mate. If prostitution is illegal in Tunisia, explain to me the whore houses in the medina. It is an irony actually because the medina in Tunis is declared a World Heritage site by the Untied Nations. It would appear as if prostitution is part of cultural heritage. Maybe you have not seen the whorehouses or Red Light District but it is there. If you like we can go together, pick our girls together and we can have sex orgies right there at the medina.
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites 1-I've given you what the law states which says clearly prostitution is ILLIGAL, if you get caught you get punished by the law.
2-Illegal doesn't mean it doesn't exist i ve given you clear exemple crime is illegal doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
3-You don't even know what you are talking about, Medina is the arabic word which refers to City, which is used nowadays to refers to the old city and of course it is a UN world heritage not only Tunis but alot of maghreb Medinas.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine Whatever the law says is irrelevant when the actual practice is otherwise. Again, in Tunisia prostitution is legal,. No one gets arrested, the customers and the prostitutes or the shop owners who operate the brothels. Government doctors go there the shops to check the health of the women. Again I invite you to come with me in Tunis..let us go to the medina, We can have beer or coffee at Boulevard Habib Bouguiba afterwards.
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites Sorry you keep insisting with a guilible argument, you can also find drog dealers and buy drog from them aswell doesn't mean they are LEGAL
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine Not when the government itself is operating it.
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites got a prove on that ?
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine Come with me to Tunis. Life sometimes is not what it seems.
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites i told you i've been living in morocco for 17years, i was born there and grown up there i know the Maghreb culture and way of thinking. And i clearly stated Prostution exist but it is illegal if you get caught you are in trouble.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine Please tell me your thoughts about this verse in the Quran:
[5:51] O you who believe, do not take certain Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them. GOD does not guide the transgressors.
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites Ok I've got the Coran in front of me you say sourate 5 Ayat or versse 51 and there is no such thing. And i read Arabic and My Coran is in arabic so post the correct thing location.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine Please tell me what verses 5:51, 5:80 and 3:28 say in your Quran.
samlarsenwrites 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine You made a general statement that Imam is someone with the highest knowledge and highly respected. I posted several news items about Imams caught in different kinds of crimes. I do not want to embarrass you, but to prove to you that they are humans like the rest of us. We should be careful about elevating them into such a high pedestal because, like Christian priests, Imams have weaknesses too.
Santiso1962 1 year ago
@Santiso1962 you do not want to embarasse me? is this how you are making an excuse to you self to not answer me? you didn't even answer me, or you can't??!
where are all your claims?
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine Cool off...you are burning....
Santiso1962 1 year ago
@Santiso1962 if i wasn't cool i woudn't be able to answer and hit the spot each time.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites 1-Pakistani men practice homosexuality?wrong if you are taking the anecdote to generalse to other people is plainly false and can't be taken as argumentation.
2-Prostitution and alchool are ILLEGAL in morocco and tunisia the only thing allowed is selling them like hotels in bars for tourists for exemple, locals can buy them but once caught drinking in public for exemple they pay the price.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine Anecdote? You are less informed about your culture. Have you heard Bacha Bazi? You heard about Kandahar, the gay capital of central asia?
Prostitution illegal in Tunisia and Morocco-Stupid Fool-come with me, I will tour you at the Medina
Prostitution Illegal in Morocco and Tunisia-Stop peddling your dis-information about this countries. You might get arrested.
Santiso1962 1 year ago
@Santiso1962 I wonder who's the stupid fool here, I'am a Moroccan and i grow and morocco till my 20s and u know what i m talking about, Porstitution is illegal by LAW so don't try to impress anyway with you lies.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine Well I do not know about your law but I have been to morocco and tunisia twice. I enjoyed the company of beautiful prostitutes we pick up at Boulevard Mohammed V and Boulevard d'Anfa. There are so many I thought it was legal. If it is illegal why there are so many. The medina in Tunis is like that of Netherlands. Prostitution is everywhere, so I don't think it is big deal. The big deal is when it is denied.
Santiso1962 1 year ago
@Santiso1962 took you much to answer huh?I m sure you went no where and you have this account just for the troll and to make lies an spread fake propaganda, next time make a consistant account that doesn't betray you.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@samlarsenwrites 3-Again you are taking the anecdote and trying to generalise to other people wich is plainely wrong, i ll let you search on the matter and tell me how much people on these population do such thing.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
@InitialDAmine Learn islamic culture...apparently you hardly know anything.
Santiso1962 1 year ago
@Santiso1962 you are the one who need to learn about islam, but you don't want and won't be able anyway.
InitialDAmine 1 year ago
wtf is irshad talking about
hasqas123 1 year ago
Irshad Manji has zero intellectual merit. She can't even say the Islamic greeting properly. She's just a good speaker. That's it.
farhan00 1 year ago
@farhan00 who gives the shit about your Islamic greeting? we are free people...our ancestors fought and died for us to have the freedom of expression..Yours did not ....I know you Muslims never fought for anything resembeling anything close the Universla Human rights of all of us , you just pushing your Islam and its shitty backward dogmas on the rest ..
Kbrt111 1 year ago
@Kbrt111 FYI, I'm an American.
farhan00 1 year ago
@farhan00
I givah shit who you are ..or where you from...Whenever some crap goes on in the Middle East I hear raving Muslims with their Allahu Akhbar Takbeer on our streets ...--those are not Americans ...those are invaders , fifth columnists ...and you maybe one of them..oh well, one nice day , it all will come to the end ...it will be ugly ..but will be the end of Islam in the West
Kbrt111 1 year ago
@Kbrt111 Based on your last comment, would you say its clear that your intellectualism has destroyed my cave-man backwardness? :-)
farhan00 1 year ago
@farhan00
@farhan00
you are not cave men....you look like us, you talk like us , yet you re fossils with the 7th century mentality....felling hurt and entitled to push the medieval shit you follow on the rest of us and demanding respect for it , since supposedly you are followers of THE religion..
Kbrt111 1 year ago
@farhan00
We have dealt with such idiocy 400-600 years ago , when some fucks in their overblown self-bestowed delusional sense of entitlement that you have today ,as well, were ordering the rest of us around since they supposedly too were the true believers and the rest then were the enemies of god...
Kbrt111 1 year ago
@farhan00
well, that you are acting like that ---that is understandable , what can one expect of Muslims ? as I said, you are fossils , your thinking is stuck somewhere between 7th and 12th European century but the fact that the West had not learnt that lesson..well, it will be repeated then again... ..and not for you to compete with me in putting out sarcastic jokes!!
Kbrt111 1 year ago
@Kbrt111 What can I say? Clearly your intelligence has 'pwnd' me, because I'm just a Muslim caveman, right? I'm stuck in the 7th century Europe, despite being American...but you said I'm just Middle Eastern.
Have I have been pwned by your profound intellect?
farhan00 1 year ago
@farhan00 you right ...you are just a Middle Eastern..and like a little spoiled child who learned finally to talk as an adult yet not to think -- trying to immitate ...
Kbrt111 1 year ago
@Kbrt111 You misspelled 'imitate'
Racists and bigots and religious fanatics are all-the-same. Don't think you're any different.
badfoods 1 year ago
@farhan00
and the West ----is an irresponsible parent that allows the spoiled and somewhat evil child (Muslims ) to run around and wreck a havoc ..to tell Muslims to get over it and grow up ---is useless. Muslims , as children (somewhere before age 11) , do not have facilities to understand what is growing up means, let alone getting over it..
Kbrt111 1 year ago
@Kbrt111 So, I am 100% middle-eastern, despite never having been to the middle east, nor are my parents from there, nor is my citizenship from any middle eastern country, nor have I even VISITED there.
YOU'RE A GENIUS!! Keep it up!
farhan00 1 year ago
@farhan00 Don't bother arguing with bigots on YouTube. They're never going away.
badfoods 1 year ago
@farhan00 : If you have to decide between to Ummah and the US - where does your loyalty go ?
januk36 1 year ago
@januk36 The Ummah, of course!
If you had to decide between Freedom and the US, where would your loyalty go?
farhan00 1 year ago
@farhan00 note that it any of my business but i seriously believe that ur wastin ur time with this kbrt .. If u have to debate on youtube with someone then debate with someone who uses their intellect and can articulate good arguments.. other than that, it's a complete waste of time!!
wedjhet0nazar 1 year ago
@Kbrt111 You are quite accurate.
kreplach2 1 year ago