IQ2 Debate: "Europe is failing its Muslims" - Summing up and results. (6 of 6)

[antiracistspider]

the audience vote has proved that racism is hear to stay in Europe. It is sickening to see the smile on the face of a racist like Douglas Murray because his notion has won. If this was Hitlers Germany and the motion was if it was ok to murder the innocent jews, that motion too would have won. The truth is that most non mulsims are failing the world and humanity at large.

[bumpy0027]

@antiracistspider Come on man how come is that racism..I am american indian i agree 100% with douglas..muslims are stone age people...hav u ever noticed y nobody speaks against sikhs hindus or buddhists in western world..islam sucks...being brown...i dont think it is racist...muslims use this word just to get edge...Fact of matter is all people other than muslim hate muslims...they might not say on face..but nobody will like there family member to b muslim or marry a muslim.

[mistWalker66]

I am really disappointed that no one mentioned the stupidity in teaching children any scripture which is in its literal form hostile towards other beliefs(or non-belief).Sure, one could argue that not all Muslims are hostile; There is a CHANCE that people can come across a different,more peaceful interpretation (and they do).That is indisputable.

But why the hell would you expose people to it in the first place?!

[Ticklytinker]

Yay!

[qxw667]

Muslims are ignorant, Christians are delusional, and Jews are reason for this predicament!

[Craigipedia]

the learned people who argue against the influx of Islam do so because WE DON'T BASE OUR LIVES ON A BOOK. We don't want your book. We don't need your book. If you NEED your book to live, fine, but I don't need it, and I have the right to burn it or eat it or throw in in the river if I want to. That's the whole point

[Craigipedia]

come on Tariq... I expected more than a weak ad hominem from a professor at Oxford University

[Kbrt111]

Sense of superiority? European values are superior to Islamic ones

[bogdanF132]

I remember watching the debate on catholicism with Hitchens and Fry; they tore that religion to shreds but nobody in the audience booed and hissed. These people act like they were literally raised by camels. They haven't got the slightest concept about civlised dialogue. Congratulations to all the muslims there, they have proved yet again that islam is the stuff of angry mobs and not debate panels.

[DiLxThief]

Nobody is asking u to respect us... we dnt need ur respect... we need u to act like human beings... and remember when the Nazis did the same to the jews... persecuted them, took their freedoms away from them. Eurpean Government now wants to tell us HOW our women should dress?!!! u want to tell me how to live my life.. according to ur morals and standards?.. WHO R U?

[dirty1smelly1turban]

@DiLxThief if you want to dress how YOU WANT to dress, do it somewhere else. if you want to be EUROPEANS, dress like Europeans, eat like Europeans, act like Europeans! why are you trying to piss against the wind? we are not a cultural mosaic, if you want to wear a head scarf, do it in canada or go home. WHEN WE ACCEPT YOU INTO EUROPE, WE ARE ACCEPTING YOU AS A PERSON, NOT A FUCKING CULTURE!!!!!! you cant mix two cultures, because you will get a big piece of shit!

[dirty1smelly1turban]

@dirty1smelly1turban also the argument that we are treating people as a culture instead of 'individuals' is bs. OF COURSE WE WILL TREAT YOU AS A CULTURE IF YOU BRING IT WITH YOU. AS I SAID BEFORE, WHEN WE ACCEPT YOU INTO EUROPE, WE ARE ACCEPTING YOU AS A PERSON, NOT A CULTURE!!!!!! we expect you to change according to your environment, ITS CALLED ADAPTING!!!!!!!!!! if you dont adapt, go back to your own lands and work on your problems. and what about the hundreds of churches burned in islam?

[DiLxThief]

u accept me as a person, but not as a culture? Are u on drugs mate?... u sound very very confused mate.. ur contradicting urself all over.. U say u dnt accept our culture right? Yet u dnt mind eating a curry every friday?... or going to muslim restaurants and takeaways.. U sounding more n more like a racist. Who are u to accept me? i dnt wna e accepted by biggots like u... We dnt adapt and we dnt change.. if u believe monkeys evolved n became humans, we aint gna adapt to that LOL.

[DiLxThief]

where are the churches being burned? where?... where is ur proof? ur a liar.. Go and look in iraq n iran over 1million christians live side by side with muslims.. and have been for thousands of yrs.. U r a racist.. its quite clear how much hatred u hold in ur heart for fellow human beings.. its Nazi fashists like u, europe tried to get rid off... but now ur showing ur ugly faces again.. this world doznt belong to u son.. learn to e tollerant.. because we tollerate u.

[DiLxThief]

I'll dress how i want, where i want.. u dont own europe and neither does ne1 else.. No1 can stop me or my family, i was born here, im a british citizen.. and i aint going newhere soon. I work and pay my taxes so regardless am staying until a time comesm when i cannot practice my religion. U talk about freedom and democracy? what kind of freedom n democracy are u preaching? u hypoccite.

[sinclair61]

@DiLxThief and I will say whatever I want about "faith based" medieval fringe elements of OUR society.

[DiLxThief]

well y dnt u also take a look at the high levels of rape, pedophilia, incest, drugs, murder, child abuse, violence, alcoholism... hypocracy, corruption, child sex slavery.. take a look at prostition and failed marriages, and high levels of divorce and epidemic levels of teenage pregnancies... dept, mass unemployment.. please also make about these MEDIEVAL FRINGE ELEMENTS OF YOUR SOCIETY... Joker!

[sinclair61]

@DiLxThief Correct, it is my society, and I will say what I want about it. Are you able to criticize YOUR society? Have you got a job? Do you have freedom of speech?

[DiLxThief]

Lol ur a joke mate.. its not only ur society... but everyones society.. thats what democracy is u muppet... and yeah i work, n pay my taxes... do u have freedom of speech? do u pay ur taxes? i hope u do... because thats another problem, too many free loaders killing the system. Lol

[sinclair61]

@DiLxThief you are obviously one of those talented pupils that fully absorbed just about everything from the English Comprehensive education that you were "given". Maybe you could turn your hand to knocking out a few sonnets, Pros and poems on the subject, and give us all a treat.

[DiLxThief]

@sinclair61 I'll leave that for u son... "given"??? Lol are u having a laugh? My dad payed his taxes and payed his national insurrance... what's the given about it??? lol i had every right... u sound more n more like a nazi every comment.

[DiLxThief]

Who are u telling to go home? i was born here, i grew up here.. i work here and pay my taxes here... this is my home. who are u to tell me to go home? europe belongs to me as much as it does to u... i have every right to live here and practice my faith as do others.. i dnt c ne1 complaining about the catholic Nunz?.. i dnt see ne1 complaining about the Sikhs with their turbans... u see, we will never be like u.. N we will never give up our religion for ppl like u.

[exhunter]

I believe the vote was rigged!!!!!

[deeeznutz87]

@exhunter what you believe doesnt mean a damn thing

[positionnormal71]

Good, fair and decent result. Does that mean we've all got a fatwa on our heads now?

[DontYouHateMondays]

Gosh...

Why don't we have a similar show in Germany?

All we have is "Who wants to be a millionaire" "Big Brother" and other

stuff.

Eventhough the fact, that the speakers had much too less time for their speeches, this program is so much better than the whole german TV.

[DontYouHateMondays]

To summarize the problem:

Western society members are very critic

Muslims aren't that critic than western society members / aren't at all

If you're mother tells you, the world is a plate, you'd believe her rather than a stranger, who says the exact opposite, if you dont think about it / if you're not critic, right?

[princeairboy]

babi douglas murray

[HiAdrian]

Very disappointing debate to me. The format was unsuited, and the speakers not clear/articulate enough on their stances.

[MonaalizMJiheartU]

I didnt watch the debate & I wont, I cant tolerate Tariq Ramadan, I think the title should be, Muslims are failing Europe. As an ex Muslim, still close with some Muslim people, all they do is moan &complain about how bad they are treated, & people should respect them more, they are the most bigoted people,, their hateful anti-Semitic and they never respect any one elses views.

Europe is failing it self by allowing Muslims to walk all over them, I'm begging you to wake up!

[krackpotkikr]

@MonaalizMJiheartU if muslims were anti semetic there would be no jew today... look into the history you will find the biggest empire is the islamic empire and our glorious Qur'an teaches us to be semetic and not otherwise. QUR'AN refer to JEWS and CHRISTAINS as PEOPLE OF THE BOOK it means we have to believe in all prophets mentioned in THE TORAH an THE BIBLE..... whoever is feeding your mind is doing a great job in keeping you ignorant and hard minded with all the hypocracy intact......

[MonaalizMJiheartU]

@krackpotkikr

No one is feeding me anything, just another typical Muslim response, I know what the Quran says, I grew up Muslim and I read the Quran.

You can sugar coat it as much as you like, the truth is most Muslims are anti- Semitic, maybe not you, but the majority is, I grew up among them I should know, theres hate towards all Jews Israelis and they think the world would be a better place without them!

[DiLxThief]

@MonaalizMJiheartU... Ist of all... i dnt think u were ever a muslim... 2ndly i dnt think uve ever read a single ayat in the Quran... The muslims are not Anti-anything... its not the israeli soldiers u see dying on the news everyday is it? its not the Jews u see bleeding to death from military attacks is it? palestinians dnt have helicopter gunships..

[DiLxThief]

U talking to me about how the muslims hate israel... Why dnt u talk about how the israelis treat the muslims? they Kidnap children.. kill them... and sell their organs on the black market! But we dnt see this on the media do we? But as soon as a muslim retaliates, its on the news straight away. and Israel begin their new wave of terror on the palestinians.

[DiLxThief]

Ne1 who agrees with the two plonkers on the right, seriously needs to get things into perspective. This Twat! said that "people apply different Standard when it comes to muslims and islam".. Well DUH!!!! thats cuz biggots like u are attacking it all the time... forcing people to defend. What do u expect? for muslims to give u a trophy after u insult their faith?....

[DiLxThief]

the Plonker on the right from Holland.. said that by making the cartoons... they were saying to muslims that we accept u, and u are apart of our society... "by publishing these cartoons we r saying u are part of europe" ARE U FVKING HIGH? By insulting sum1z way of life! lying about their faith, spreading false accusations, by Humiliating them to the world ur ACCEPTING THEM??? give me a fvcking break dude.

[DiLxThief]

lets say... I swear at ur mother... calling her a prostitute... a bitch... a whore! i tell the masses that ur mother has 3 nipples, i tell the masses ur mother sleeps with men for pennies... i draw pictures of ur mum NUDE in pornographic images and post them to ur house.. and to everyone on ur street in ur neighbourhood. Then wen u ask me, WHY DID U DO SUCH A THING.. i say cuz i accept u..

[DiLxThief]

Would u take that as a answer?... i am sure.. an i expect ne decent... free, open minded human being to beat the shlt out of me right their n then! because that is a insult in itself... U have to humiliate me, to accept me?.... cudnt u accept me the way i am? u had to persecute me and my beliefs in order to consider me part of europe?... Fuk u! keep ur europe.. i dnt wna live in a place like that! no1 would.

[fzjanjua]

@MonaalizMJiheartU I'm afraid you're a liar, I've never come across these muslims you're speaking off, with what you've said, you're clearly the bigot!

... How are muslims walking all over europeans? How do you know what is like to be discriminated against just because of your religion or skin colour, obviously not very much because you wouldn't be defending, as this clearly shows you're not an ex muslim, unless you're pale and have a european name.

[azaroch]

tariq you are a complete dipshit!

[Xexillia]

BAM! that showed those hippies.

[richmeister4eva]

happy days are here to stay, ignorant minorities get pwned XD

[happiestgirl1000]

Also, I have to bite my tongue every time I hear some PRETTY sexist men - Christopher Hitchens included - go on and on about 'how badly Islam treats women'. Dear God, check yourselves before pointing fingers. The thought of Hitchens criticizing Islam for its treatment of women makes me laugh. This is the same guy who wrote an entire piece for Vanity Fair about 'how women aren't funny'. STFU douchebag.

[Morahg]

Here are some of the things that happen to women due to muslim doctrine: female genital mutilation (to remove all sexual pleasure permantly), honor killings, forced marriages, pedophilia (young girls), removing women's rights to come and go without a male relative, compulsory wearing of the hajib, rape and or stoning of women accused of being unfaithful, and the lawful beating of wives. There may be more, but this is the extent of my meager knowledge.

[rollotwomassey]

If you can equate tongue-in-cheek, wry, deadpan British [from a "progressive," leftist, Trotskyist, atheist, secular humanist] humor regarding whether or not women, as a whole, are funny with the sort of institutionalized misogyny given credence in most schools of Islamic jurisprudence I fear your judgment is well beyond repair.

[weikko79]

@happiestgirl1000 Right. Writing that women aren't funny totally equals stoning women to death. Are you really that stupid or just pretending?

[happiestgirl1000]

Douglas Murray is a classic case of a person's insides reflecting their outsides. He would actually be attractive if his sliminess and arrogance didn't literally reek through his pores. Though as a straight girl, I get the feeling somehow that he doesn't bat for my team.

I thought Tariq Ramadan argued brilliantly (his "Welcome to Social Cohesion" made me laugh) and I enjoyed listening to him.

[rollotwomassey]

If that is true his insides must reflect intelligence, brevity, wit and moral courage then as he won over a hostile audience. I think he is arrogant but that doesn't mean he's wrong- he's used to getting the better of people in both his rhetoric and his debating results. His sexuality is a complete non-sequitir but I think you may be wrong- he's just an exceedingly toffish, Oxbridge-educated Englishman which is often mistaken for something else.

[QuarkyGideon]

The segregation does not come from europeans forcing their worldview upon anyone; but muslim individuals giving out death threats to anyone who criticises them be it writing a book or making a cartoon.

Were were the apostates of islam or one of the major religious critics?

[nitramrot]

Why isnt Sam Harris or Christopher Hitchens in this debate???

[1LTPETE]

@nitramrot @nitramrot I was thinking EXACTLY the same thing. Hitchens should have been there. I was recalling this little episode on the issue of rights for women and Islam:

You have to type in "Christopher Hitchens confronts audience member on the status of Iranian women" in the YouTube search field. Apparently I can't post the url here.

[nitramrot]

@1LTPETE

Being a huge youtube-fan of Hitchens, I think

Ive seen that clip before but its always worth a second look. Thanks

[simsi1616]

PWNED! Of course Europe isn't failing its muslims. Why is it muslims always have to be the victims. Wherever they go they seem to view themselves as the victims. You don't see that kind of nonsense from other cultural minorities. Grow up you bunch of babies!

[KUzZ911]

All the Muslims know the Truth. According to Allaha we won this Vote! These People will only realise on the day of Judgement!!!

[MythF]

Tariq Ramadan > douglas

haha that's for sure.

[frankystein12]

I respectively disagree with the Dutch diplomat's closing statement about the who issue of superiority. True, some issues have both sides that can be argued, while others do not. Like the equality of gender, government accountability, and separation of church of state, only an insane individual on a bad day would argue against these virtues that have been the foundation of progressive societies.

[easterneuropeanmind]

HuRAY!! Congratulations! It's not Europe who's failing!

[thegreatestbak]

secular values are superior...not just toislam but to christianity and judaism as well.

[thegreatestbak]

if you want to kill islam do the following things: 1- stop support for israel (apartheid) 2- steop support for evangelical christianity 3- let the muslim countries economies prosper 4- religion dies out 5- muslims in europe dont feel threatened because their hoe countries are not threatened 6- religion dies out 7- harmony and multiculturalism prosper you cant kill a religion and isolate it...for every action there is a reaction attack muslims and their faith grows stronger stop all abramics

[WOranos]

@thegreatestbak

Your point #5 is quite interesting and I feel it nails the crux of the problem, even though it wasn't intended.

The home countries of muslims in Europe should be EUROPEAN countries, not middle eastern ones. This, more than anything else, exemplifies why western society is facing mounting islamic radicalization. Even when we see the problem, we won't acknowledge it, let alone lift a finger to stop it, thus inviting more problems. We show weakness when strength is required.

[shaioliver]

yeah Saudi Arabia is failing economy ??

[thegreatestbak]

Islam is a disease but so is christianity

The U.S. invades the middle east because of cunt-servative christians in power wanting to steal oil and treat muslims like garbage.

The middle eastern economies are trashed and muslim immigrants move to europe, clinging to a faith that was strengthened because of this.

Both sides have good points, but in the end this is a problem that can only be solved by letting religion die out.

I side with Flemming on this 60/40

[RobGoth100]

Douglas Murray comes off as the least "hip" person on the panel yet he speaks the truth and not sopistry. The others deal with straw men arguments.

[thegreatestbak]

i agree for the most part, but murray also uses some red herrings--i wish he would be a little more clear on WHY islam is a problem, but its only obvious to people who are not religious or not muslim

[RobGoth100]

Check out Robert Spencer on YouTube.

He does research into Islam.

[thegreatestbak]

@RobGoth100 will do thanks

[Afrobeat100]

@thegreatestbak

To have that properly explained check out Christopher Hitchens

[thegreatestbak]

@Afrobeat100

yep. im a huge fan--thanks

[redarrowhead]

@RobGoth100

true that

[krackpotkikr]

@RobGoth100 wat truth of mr.douglas murray are you talkin about??? is it the teacing of hate and bigotry in campuses every week??? where is the proof??? if talkin nonsnese and bullshit while the whole audience gags and boo's truth to you then you are a racist who is here to hear hate against islam.....

[RobGoth100]

@krackpotkikr The only hate and bigotry on campuses is from the left and Islamofascist right which is racist in their own ways.

[2012sangram]

@RobGoth100 Douglas Murray is a Islam hater who is ignorant and who cant read plain English.

[MrPAKISTANArmy]

What is the religion of thoses americans and Britishers are responsible for 600000 killings of muslims(after9/11) They are christians and Jews.

The westerns have lived only 50 years of prosperity. And think that they are the most cultural and moral people lived for thousands of year. Before that they are buchering people of India, australia, africa, china.

They are afraid of Purity of Islam. Yes for those who declared themself of the enemy of Islam there activities must be countered.

[72faithfree]

b4 islam eats all societies and countries please visit below sites and learn the tactics of this beast and help to kill it.

faithfreedomDOTorg

jihadwatchDOTorg

thereligionofpeaceDOTcom

islam-watchDOTorg

peace

[RobGoth100]

Douglas Murray is correct. The others deal in sopistry.

"Europe is Doomed"

Mark Steyn

[Afrobeat100]

@RobGoth100

Maybe we should vest our hope on Iran -they seem pretty fed up with Islam there :)))

[floradeliza]

islam = scientology

both are twaddle that the lonely go to

[tdottim]

Terrible show. Let people ask 6 or 7 "questions" in a row...then don't address a tenth of them. Terrible host. And the show is called IQSQUARED, and they can't even spell 'failing'.

[Afrobeat100]

@tdottim

Indeed. Like someone else posted here it was in fact a poorly led talkshow -no debate at all. At least not the part recorded

[CorporalNym]

Brave Douglas Murray tells the truth. You cannot be a Muslim believing the Koran is from God with all it's horror and be moderate.

So Tariq, what does work? More Mosques, more halal slaughter houses, Islamic schools? More concessions to Islam. Where are Islam's concessions to Europe?

As for brotherhood in Islam where is it for non believers gays etc. Tariq, its Taqiyya. I don't believe you. it's my right

[MsGLULU]

No Segregation for ALL women, and We dont want to hear muslims preaching hates and telling us we are pigs, kouffars, and they will kill us ! My country is not for sale for Petrol in exchange. Bravo we learned nothing, jsut waiting from muslims to fight for peace inside their own community !

[Belegaer]

why did the BBC cut things out?

BBC is a joke

[Mattyb88ful]

Islam is not THE problem. It is PART of the problem.

THE problem is religion. Muslims are just as horrible as Christians and Jews. If these people disappeared, the world would be such a better place. No -Israeli-Palestinian conflict; no homophobia; no sexism; no religious hatred; et cetera.

[phantommate]

Bring on the rapid demise of all religions. Bring on enllightenment. Gone would be hate!

[cantleysugar]

Bring a packed lunch. You're in for a long wait.

[gtalcstories]

the problem with this debate is that islam was treated as a race, and critiscisms against it were hence rasict.

The best and most important comment came from the gentleman who said that if you replaced muslims with white evangelicals we would oppose them just the same.

Islam is a religion. It claims to know things about the creation of the universe and morality which it can not possibly know, and says that those who dont believe this, can expect to suffer, and deserve an eternity in hell.

[elindred]

indeed, I think this is a major factor behind the phenomenon of homegrown islamic extremism and jihad. By convincing western born muslims that islam is a race, they can garner sympathy for muslims elsewhere, then make a case that the west is/has been persecuting muslims and invading muslim territory, then make a case that they should fight to defend their race. It's an insidious strategy that hijacks modern sensibilities against racism to shield their iron age barbarism from criticism.

[patbrien]

When Murray was asked if he would mind a child converting to Islam, the debate folded. Of course he wouldn't. That's the point of his position. The question HAD to be reversed, yet wasn't. Would any of the Muslims mind if a child decided to convert to Christianity, declared himself gay or an atheist? The (true) answer to that decides who is failing. 'European Muslim' has to mean Muslims who can choose as individuals without fear. Fair question from a Muslim, but not to a Muslim, it seems.

[Scarzet]

The Islamic culture is centuries behind the west when it comes to a civilized society, why do you immigrate to Europe if you love your country so much and that your country is doing everything so much better than the west?

[Afrobeat100]

@Scarzet

This can be summarised as follows : " Yankee, go home, and please take me with you " :)))

[elindred]

This is a retarded debate format. The speakers had no alloted time to address each other, and way too much time was devoted to permitting the peanut gallery to blab without being answered by the speakers. This is basically a glorified talk show. After seeing previous iq2 debates I am very disappointed.

[iqsquared]

The debate format was changed in order to fit with the BBC World News broadcast. The unedited transcript is available on our website and a full audio version will be available soon on our iTunes.

[elindred]

It is my humble opinion (subject to debate) that at a time when real, productive, honest and, most importantly, public dialogue about this very serious issue is so desperately wanting, it is a crying shame that this precious 1hr of on-air dialectic opportunity was so badly wasted, sabotaged from the onset by some very unfortunate editorial decisions. Perhaps these decisions were unavoidable, I don't know, but in that case, my opinion is that it would have been just as good to broadcast static.

[view587]

Sorry all the Muslims find the need to go negative on every realistic remark. Not ready to accept criticism! Sorry Cant respect anyone who says we should have a moratorium on Stoning! Tariq Ramadan is perfect to cause a divide in Europe

[bazodee2]

Europe should place signs on her borders that say: "Sexually liberal atheist playground - religious nutters not welcome!"

maybe that would help?!

[ashtool]

i just wish the world would get rid of all religion. it is such a crock of shit.

imagine if there was no religion. what a step forward....

we are getting close to this goal, brothers and sisters.

[bazodee2]

AMEN brother.. or sister.

[olimario]

People will find other excuses to murder and oppress.

[tdottim]

I agree with olimario. The problem is humans often adopt nutty ideologies to fulfill a need (in many people) to believe in something. Religions are among the biggest culprits and killers historically, but if you leave a vacuum, in will come some other wackjob ideology (Marxism, Communism, Fascism, Environmentalism). But it is mind boggling that in 2010 so many people are still believing these ridiculous myths.

[Fleshious]

Well done, Douglas.

[angjn]

I would just like to clarify that I see no reason to believe that a majority of at least western muslims wish Europe to be an islamic state, I do not think the minority who do is as small as we wish it was. The number of muslims actually prepaired to use violence to advance this goal is extremely small but what matters is the goal, not just the means

[alwaysblank]

Should have placed a bottle of Johnnie Walker on the end of a string and dragged it across the atlantic and got old Hitchens in to debate. Minds would have been blown. ;-{}

[alwaysblank]

Muslims in this audience remind me of the American Christian members of the audiences at Hitchens/Dawkins debates. They dont listen to what is being said and just sit and wait for their chance to cheer and clap at anything which is said by someone of their faith.

[dringles]

The muslims engaged in some loudmouthed bullying, and Ramadan was just sucking up to his fellow believers.

The PC women just stated some multicultural cliches. Just a bunch of rubbish.

While Rose and Douglas made some fine speeches which werent sugarcoated with PC sirup.

Nice to see that the grim realities were more convincing compared to muslim populism.

[sirMucha]

It's a huge pleasure to hear Flemming Rose's intelligent rhetoric.

I wish those muslim women didn't live in such denial.

[ahr8p]

They better should have invited Aayan Hirsi Ali.

[Mike3303]

Her and Christopher Hitchens would have been an incredible team.

[poiuytrew2]

@Mike3303

Her? Who's her?

[trucanadian]

Huge amount of sample bias in that population. The muslim-non-muslim ratio was huge. The muslims weren't there to even consider the other side but rather to just enforce their political beliefs on others. I personally think both sides did shitty jobs supporting their sides.

[Biankito]

Agreed, none of the muslim stood up and said "yes, we realize there is a minority who is pushing extreme views of our religion into societies who adopt them, but we are not all part of it"

Instead of recognizing that, they went all out on the defensive, which clearly pictures them as being bias.

[XPMBblues]

@trucanadian Agreed that both sides did a shitty job, the against guys should have been clearer about who they were criticizing (minority of more extreme people within muslim minority and those pushing to get islam into politics), since it resulted in their weakest points.

And the muslim audience members booing them weren't civil at all!

[angjn]

I think you contradicted yourself there, if it really was only a small minority of muslims who dont value freedom and democracy then one would not expect that ammount of booing to come from the muslims in the audience. I think the woman is right that alot of people don't want to believe that islam is a huge problem for the west, I however base my beliefs not on what makes me feel comfortable, but instead base them on what is true.

[XPMBblues]

@angjn You are entirely right (wtf was I thinking)! Thanks. There has been some retarded religious accommodationism in my country and for some reason I thought there was a minority of people lobbying for these things, when the real answer was right under my nose..

[angjn]

@XMPblues I'm sensing some sarcasm here. Were you sincere or not in your agreement with me? sorry if I come across as stupid, but text can make sarcasm difficult to differentiate from sincerity. If you do disagree with my asseessment of the situation to it is your right to do so and I would never suggest otherwise, I would just appreciate some clarification.

[XPMBblues]

@angjn With 100% sincerity. I was surprised I actually didn't put the 1 and 1 together to make 2 in my first post, and do appreciate you pointed it out.

[angjn]

@XMPblues Well then, you are most welcome. Pardon my suspicions, as you know its extremely unusual to change anyones mind about anything on the internets.

[m2ab85]

I watched the full Show in BBC Wold...its full of Rubbish ...Disappointing , u EU guys are trash

[rogkeista]

This woman Petra Stienen is full of banal rubbish.

[pikkumyy12]

Overall a great debate with not only the debaters having good sense and intelligent comments, but a lot of time the audience also shone with smart remarks.

[Finiras]

how can a continent fail the followers of a religion?

[Reid573]

Such demagogy from Ramadan. I'm glad to see the audience didn't fall for it during the vote. And as always, bravo to Douglas for telling it like it is.

[Reiff444]

Douglas Murray argued well. All those who bood should read the Quran

[glyderau]

A good result. The muslim speaker at the end uses the same old trick; by accusing the others of being against social cohesion, he justifies a religion which is totalitarian. Such nonsense, i'm glad the audience saw sense.

[Aaberg123]

Well said Flemming.