Wong Shun Leung and Bruce Lee

[toyube95]

haha brucie wanted private lessons from WSL i totally understand him!

[2jgard]

I read in one of Jessie Glover's book that Bruce Lee had gotten better in wing chun, and that he was able to land blows on Wong Shun Leung. If you watch videos of how Wong moved, you can see that Bruce Lee was influenced by that and also was able to move in a similar fashion.

[THEpillows100]

its funny how wongs bitch ass discredits bruce lee as a martial artist yet im sure later in life , the jkd phase of bruce lee in his life , he wouldve whooped wongs ass

[cornwallgeezer]

Everyone claims to have taught Bruce, but Wong really did!

FACT!!

[shittysignup]

@ maliciousdoc

Idiot, get your facts straight. Wong is one of a few ppl that can claim to have trained Lee. Yip Man was his Sifu but didn't train the beginners very often.

Wong was BL Sihing and showed Lee most of the stuff he knew about Wing Chun.

Meh...shitty cliché but soooo many ppl being wrong on the internet...

[shittysignup]

@Gungfu1978

Too bad you seem not to have learned all the kicks within the WC system. There are 8 different kicks in the wooden dummy form alone plus thse from Chum Kiu.

Not flashy high kicks which are useless against skilled opponents on the street.

Most good kickers fall on their ass when they try to use high kicks or jumping kicks on the street. Tight pants and slippery shoes can be a bitch.

[GetDamage]

@shittysignup Don't know about all that... lol. My teacher knocked out a guy on the streets with a high roundhouse to the head. The fight was over with only one hit. He came at him with a haymaker, my teacher side step and delivered the kick. It'a a muay thai roundhouse :D

[IXSuperRadGamerXI]

@GetDamage Lol your teacher did not fight a skilled opponent then. Nobody with skill will ever throw a wild haymaker . Not to say your teacher isn't good, just pointing out that your example wasn't a good one.

[shittysignup]

@mtube620 "like in real combat, BL would likely win over him."

Lol, ask around among the old WC guys...Wong kicked BL's arse whenever they trained. Even years later after he left WC & visited Wong in HK. Wong doesn't look the part but was Yip Man top fighter tested in countless beimo fights.

Get your facts straight.

[Ljenkins9000]

@shittysignup "Wong doesn't look the part but was Yip Man top fighter tested in countless beimo fights"

Yeah, like in the 70s when he fought a Muay Thai guy and ended up in the hospital for weeks.

[maliciousdoc]

everyone claims to teach bruce lee these days....

[TheSenseofTouch]

rofl YAP man

[GVDkomop]

my trainer trained with Wong Shung Leung

[phoenix0225]

BL can never win WSL, WSL has never lost a challenge, he is a legend in wing chun, BL wing chun is not as good as WSL, only his legs are damn bloody fast.

[maliciousdoc]

@phoenix0225 another bloody fool.

[phoenix0225]

@maliciousdoc whatever, mr know-it-all

[mtube620]

typo

he can beat* his sifu

[mtube620]

like in real combat, BL would likely win over him.

Personally, i feel honor if my son or my students eventually exceed my ability. Progression and improvement is purpose of life. BL constantly seek improvement, so i don't doubt BL can beat WSL one day, whether that day was just before his death or if BL had lived longer. Whether WSL can lose to BL or not, WSL is still a teacher of BL. A disciplined student should never boast himself that he can be his sifu.

[kist420]

no , wong shun leung taught bl, and they did sparr in real like, even before bl death, bruce wrote to wong that he was the only respectful teacher he ever had.

[mtube620]

Mrjournalism101, i don't know why u so preoccupied of BL can beat WSL or not. BL is a loose cannon since his youth. Without guidance like WSL, i doubt BL is philosophical as he was. By WSL account of his last sparring with BL, he said it was for research, both were using ~50% power. It is not far fetch to believe WSL could still have the upper hand over BL in technique and anticipation. WSL did say with 50% power, he can deflect BL's throws but admitted had BL used full force, cont'd...

[bedboundmonkey]

when did Bruce learn from WSL he trained as a closed door student of Ip Man for 2 years before heading to America.

[synkronyk]

no he didn't, wong trained him.

[Gungfu1978]

All i can say is Bruce Lee was an extraordinary fighter and a scientist. WSL was a good wing chun master. I practice wing chun 4 years and im not bad with my feet. When i was using my feet, no one could handle this in wing chun. So i realise that i need to find the truth outside all fixed pattern like Bruce Lee said. Wing chun is really good but you must be able to kick as well

[synkronyk]

bruce didn't ever understand that the patterns aren't fixed in the application, merely in the training.

Wong was a great fighter, and better than bruce ever managed to be,

[jacobjjj555]

in reality, how the hell would you know how good they were in comparison? bruce lee's fighting philosophy was influenced by wong, and bruce lee went on to better it.

wing chun is too fixed in reality, thats what bruce learnt from being around wc for a long time. its not that he didnt understand it; he knew theoretically wc was supposed to be not fixed, but in reality it was and how people used it it was.

[synkronyk]

Yes, it is exactly the problem that he didn't understand it enough. I have been taught by people who trained at the same time, and who have been trained by wong. Wong was always significantly better, and this doesn't mean that li junfan wasn't good, simply that he never surpassed his teacher.

It is questionable that he ever bettered it, for he still couldn't beat wong.

[jacobjjj555]

Well, first of all Wong was Bruce teacher n at tha time he was just a teen so of course Wong at that time was more experienced. Yes, Wong was always better at WC, but when Bruce grew up and learned allot more about fighting in general (other styles etc) it isnt clear at this stage if wong was still the better fighter? even wong himself admitted to being looked up to too much and that he wasnt invincible. mayb bruce taught him this? i dont know where you get your info that bruce could never beat?

[aedimus]

@jacobjjj555 I don't think Bruce taught him that mindset, I think it blossomed when Wong accidentally blinded an opponent in a match Wong provoked. I believe Wong was in his mid twenties at the time, but that was, in my opinion, one of the events that changed Leung's outlook on things.

[synkronyk]

yo'ure clueless.

[sonnenschein33]

well...Wong is famous for his successful rooftopfights....Lee is famous for his movies...

[MrJournalism101]

and his fights on the set...Lee was no joke.

[sonnenschein33]

Lee was no joke...that's right...but a lot people take the movies or the fights in the movies for reality...and that's the problem.

[VictorDanDan]

.

That is an entertainment.

[Melv666]

Bruce's limit had reached an extraordinary level which Wong Shun Leong haven't...

[ssj7gokurpg]

a month before bruce died, wsl visited bruce. Bruce still could not beat wsl

[Melv666]

Sure??I'll bet on Bruce....Who's with me?

[gnicevids]

not me

[MrJournalism101]

Yeah Right...that's Wong side of the story....I read that BS article myself...Sounds to me like Wong was trying to make himself look good...Bruce had IMPROVED ALOT by the end of his life....Wing Chun is all about Rythmn which is ok if the other fighter fights that style...BUT JKD is all about broken Rythmn...Lee would have murder this guy...so i don't buy this crap at all.

[ssj7gokurpg]

If bruce's final letter to wsl exists, then wsl was telling the truth. But since the internet can make anything up, we just need to have faith

[hoppers001]

well now I wouldn't call wsl a push over. No bruce lee incorporated other styles into his JKD so against a purely wing chun fighter, well he's going to be in for a surprise.

[MrJournalism101]

Wong was Bruce's teacher in WC...So no he's no push over in WC..But as we all know WC is somewhat weak when compared to other arts such as Thai boxing and many forms of Karate. Lee was light years ahead of Wong..even though Wong taugh him WC. WSL was knocked out by a guy in Taiwan and he just forgot to tell everyone else, that he was carried out on a stretcher...No one should believe anything Wong said or anything about WC back in those days. Most of it was fictional.

[hoppers001]

wing chun isn't about force, it's about deflection and parrying while being fast. The wing chun chain punch??? Bruce Lee may or may not be better than WSL in wing chun but bruce has other forms to back him up. WSL got knocked out by a guy in taiwan??? LOL Wow that sure is humiliating to the best disciple of the late yip man.

[ssj7gokurpg]

its funny how when its a mainstream martial art guy that gets knocked, out it isn't much of a big deal. But when it happens to a Kung fu guy its like the end of the world for him. Getting knocked out happens even to the best.

btw, wc is strong against muay thai and karate

[hoppers001]

because of the parrying.

[MrJournalism101]

it's a big deal because this guy claimed to be the best in the world...Trust me...When Lyoto Machida finally gets his ass whipped...It will be a big deal...same as when it was discovered that Wong got his ass KOed...Wong was running around telling people that he beat Bruce a few months before he died...YEAH RIGHT..He never said shit when Bruce was alive...Now it seems that everyone either trained Lee or beat him...lol...Bruce would beat Wong and 4 others like him at the same time.

[rpierini]

When did Wong Shun Leung get beaten? Seriously, I want to know . The common belief as well his Wiki page, etc. is that he never lost. It's said that Duncan Leung never lost either for what it's worth.

[MrJournalism101]

It was back in 1957 in Taiwan..Wong claimed he was never defeated when he was alive but when he died a couple of his long time students found out otherwise..Keep in mind this was the same fella that said he defeated Bruce Lee just before he died" Hawkins Cheung was the first person to come out and say WSL was lying...Hawkins stated that Lee wasn't the same fighter he was as a teenager and Bruce was much much better. Cheung stated no one could lay a finger on Bruce before he died. WSL=a liar

[rpierini]

I have a series of articles by Hawkins Cheung, about his and Bruce's teenage years and other subjects but there's nothing about WSL being a liar. I'd like to see it for myself though. Could you direct me to the source of that info?

[rpierini]

And it wouldn't bother me personally even if he did lose a fight or two- especially if it was in 1957- he was obviously not the WC master then that he was at the end of his life. But it would bother me to learn that he lied about it...

[MrJournalism101]

I will find the article and send it to you...Sorry i only stopped in to check my email...Were out camping...:)...No when WSL lost this fight...He was in his prime...He would have been 21 or 22 years old....Losing is a part of fighting...but lying when you lose...That's what gets me. Many of the guys close's to Bruce all say NO one could touch him...Even one of his best Friends...William Cheung...People seem to forget..Lee didn't just train in WC...JKD is pure MMA

[MrJournalism101]

Wu ming Jeet was the name of the guy who Knocked out WSL...Wong had to be carried out on a stretcher. There was an article that was put out by Hawkins Cheung, Robert Lee (Bruce's brother) and one of Bruce's sister...They are reportedly doing a movie on the Life of Bruce Lee..Not the hollywood BS version but a REAL FACT based account. Inosanto, Demile, Glover (Bruce first student) also stated No one could touch that man...I like WSL up until i found out he lied about not being defeated.

[MrJournalism101]

Yeah it was in a interview in it they spoke with Hawkins Cheung..I think the site was Wing Chun world or something like that...But in that interview...Hawkins Cheung said that he was a close friend and long time training partner with Bruce in WC. He also said Bruce was an above average WC student and that's why alot of guys who were senior to Bruce forced Yip to use Bruce race as a issue to kick him out...Cheung then stated although WSL had taught Bruce..No one could touch Lee before he died.

[rpierini]

We may have quite a controversy on our hands- And I thought W. Cheung had the monopoly on that!

Anyway, at wingchundotorg(wing chun world), in the library link, there's an article titled "Wong Shun Leung: the legend behind the legend".

[rpierini]

Now granted, it's written by David Peterson, WSL's main student. But he says things like "Over the years, Lee would strive to be able to overcome the skill of his teacher, using Wongs level of expertise as the yardstick by which he measured his own development as a fighter. But try as he might, Bruce Lee was never able to defeat Wong Shun Leung in combat." and "In 59 Bruce told me that Wong was the greatest fighter in the Wing Chun style, and that he had successfully defeated all challengers."

[rpierini]

So let's let Hawkins Cheung cast the final vote. Try & post the interview where he says that stuff...

[MrJournalism101]

Hawkins is just another in a long line of guys who are trying to self promote himself...I read an article where he also said If he were to fight with Bruce he would have attacked Lee's legs...beause they were weak....If you look back at Bruce Lee notes...He only mentions 3 guys from back in those Hong Kong years...Yip Man, WSL and William Cheung.. He never mentioned Hawkins...I will see if i can find that article again on here.

[MrJournalism101]

Yeah I wouldn't believe anything that comes from any of WSL or William Cheung students. Bruce was never able to beat Wong at Wing Chun...because Bruce was just a young kid when he left Hong Kong...People never seem to get how much Bruce had learned once he came to the US to train. Bruce wasn't the same fighter he was after he became what he was....Jesse Glover went to Hong Kong with Bruce and he stated that he'd never seen anyone as good as Bruce...He did say WSL was a good fighter.

[synkronyk]

moron. Bruce never beat wong in a fight, a sparring match or even in training.

[MrJournalism101]

How do you know? I guess you were there in Hong Kong after Lee had came to America and discovered and created Jeet Kune Do...If Wong was better than Lee he would have stepped up and let the world know....I don't believe a word that comes from WSL or any of those so called WC master...As far as your comment goes on Bruce just being an actor...Say that to Chuck Norris, Jhoon Rhee, Ed Parker, Dan Inosanto, Jesse Glover or the unlucky challengers that fought him. Asshole.

[synkronyk]

fuck off moron.

I do know, and have spoken on many occasions to guys who WERE there in HK while bruce was training.

The beauty of the truth is that it doesn't matter what you believe, simply what the facts prove.

[MrJournalism101]

sure you have...and sure they were...alot of people claim to have known Bruce Lee....

[Gungfu1978]

You know your stuff my friend :-) That's exactly what happen

[MrJournalism101]

David Peterson...lol...That name alone should say enough...Mr Peterson was one of Mr WSL non-chinese students who worship the ground WSL walked on. Think about it...If WSL was better than Bruce why didn't he come out and say something when Lee was alive...Why didn't he challenge Bruce when Lee was publically saying he was the best. Hong Kong studios and producers were offering Movie contracts and a reported half a million dollars to any man that could defeat Bruce Lee and no one ever did.

[rpierini]

Very interesting!

Hey speaking of W. Cheung, I must admit that I've been doing a bit of Cheung bashing lately. Wanna read some funny comments? Check out the video 'Wing Chun Siu Lim Tau - William Cheung'.

[erwinsoo]

WC weak against muay thai and karate? a wing chunner cross trained and knowledgeable in muay thai or karate will know otherwise. Can a muay thai or karateka defend against a wing chunner coming into range with 6-7 combination strikes per second? To be fair, MT training hardens the body very well and fighters can take alot of punishment. Wing chun does not have the same intensity of hard sparring and free fight training

[MrJournalism101]

A Wing Chun fighter would never get close enough to a Thai fighter to land those 6 to 7 strikes youre talking about...Bruce Lee himself said many of his fellow WC brothers went to Thailand and fought and lost against Thai fighters...I'm also talking from experience...Thai is no joke...

[hoppers001]

wing chun isn't the best. it won't top all martial arts. however it's the best kind of art to use against street thugs or your average joes.

[erwinsoo2]

even duncan leong has problems with thai fighters and western boxers. WC footwork is insuffiicent and lacks long range techniques. It will be nice to add muay thai kicking and other long range fist techniques.

[DarranHight]

They were made to wear boxing gloves like the Thai fighters. Thai is no joke though, indeed.

[rpierini]

I think in WC vs. MT it comes down to the practicioner. MT certainly isn't a joke, but neither is WC. The thing is though most MT guys live for fighting, practice constantly, and are really tough. Many WC guys, on the other hand, take it kinda casually.

[rpierini]

I agree. I am a WC student and love it.

But I used to do Tracy Kempo-Jujitsu.

And I have to say that WC has all the answers for Karate and then some, provided that one is learning GOOD WC and not crap WC. But of course, it still comes down to the practicioner!

[rpierini]

BTW this was in response to erwinsoo's last comment(not erwinsoo2).

[5150martin]

@MrJournalism101 somewhat weak, how did you work that out,its an amazing skill,and its very clever,so the strongest always wins, money buys a story,if wong got knocked out , that was his only documented loss,if,,,so run that somewhat weak when compared to other arts again please,,,

[hoppers001]

where did you get that info again?

[ssj7gokurpg]

in wikipedia. yes, he got knocked out. But he only knew siu lim tao. At the time there was no gan sau in the siu lim tao. the guy hit him in the lower ribs and injured him before knocking him out.

[hoppers001]

who cares, a ko is a ko.

[dreamcastII]

Bruce got a bloody nose by Wong Shun Leung for turning away his students

[Brucelee4eva]

unbelievable with how many people bruce lee was in contact with.

[DrewNZ]

Interesting - the double Jum at the begining of CK is not present in most lineages even in some WSL lines today....but there it is in the vid :)

[gragrn]

Excellent, thanks Clive. Always great to see Sigung Wong Shun Leung, especially when he's talking about that golden era of the late 50's early 60's.

[cspunk89]

Can you tell me what movie is this? THANKS.

[clivepot]

There is a 70's movie calles "Bruce's Fingers" which is about Bruce Lee (a fictional story) and his finger techniques and Wong Shun Leung himself is in this movie. However, I think there is also a film about the life of Bruce Lee which includes an interview with Wong Shun Leung but I do not know its title. You could ask at "Wing Chun Archives" or "Everything Wing Chun" web sites.

[newbielives]

@clivepot Is this really fictional? or real stories of Bruce told by Wong Shun Leung?

[redjak72]

@cspunk89 is very great

[cspunk89]

@redjak72 I was talking about the title... but thanks anyhow.

[PICLex]

love how they dubbed in the sounds of the punches.

[shengchenfan]

I heard this story before,I would like to see more of this video.

[markohu]

very nice

[soloVTKF]

Yes indeed very nice...

[WSLGLVT]

the first 30 seconds were a cool peek into the window of what was =)