None of the idiots opposing this remember that these are diehard terrorists and criminals, sworn to the destruction of the US. They won't care what your "feelings" are on this matter or anything else. You are already dead to them. Did they care Daniel Pearl was a liberal when they cut off his head as he screamed?? The only question that remains is would they like a twist of lemon in their water, or lime?
A campaign to outlaw waterboarding? If you outlaw waterboarding only outlaws will waterboard (the USA and its brutal allies). It is already illegal anyway. The USA is not going to abide by any international laws, period. International laws apply to other countries.
No, CIA cited 183 pours not 183 sessions. Sheesh even a 5th grader can figure out that number wouldn't add up considering the length of time they were detained. Stop drinking the koolaid and use your brain. And I hate to bust your bubble these people hate us for their "religious" reasons. They see us as infidels, always have.
@Cherub4874 ...Well I have a source. Go to nytimes dot com and then:
2009/04/20/world/20detain.html
That is the article. He was "waterboarded 183 times in March of 2003" on top of many other things like being held naked in captivity for way over a month staright
@Slotten68 NYTimes huh? Not surprising at all. Some advice 4 u, don't ever watch "24" or the movie "Unthinkable" you'll have a stroke or sumthin. We can just agree to disagree.
Why is pouring water over your face painful...? I don't really get it, don't flame me please. I seriously need someone to explain it to me. I looked it up and it just told me the definition of it, not why it's painful
@Nicro327 here's an example: have you ever been to the pool and got water in ur nose? try having it like that for ten seconds with the water coming. It tears your insides up with th water. That is why its painful. i dont reccomend trying it, i didnt survive three seconds before bursting.
@Nicro327 Well im not too sure but I figure if it's high up it would probably feel like someone hit you in the face really hard. If it's high up in the air and a lot of water is coming down on your face it probably would hurt. can you imagine? .. hopefully that helped?
@gothgirl4813 You can't breathe, water gets everywhere...EVERWHERE
You think you're drowning so you start to jolt & jerk out of it but you're tied down so you can't escape. Seconds later comes extreme claustraphobia, then complete and total deathly panic. People who doubted how serious it was tried doing it on camera and only lasted seconds. Months later they still have nightmares, flashbacks and panic attacks by the sound of slow pouring water or the feel of a soaking wet cloth. It's no joke
I guess it beats slowly being skinned alive, or having needles being stuck underneath one's fingernails, or having one take a wet sponge with electrical plugs and rub them on bare flesh, or crush one's finger joints with a set of pliers or using a white hot metal poke and branding one throughout one's body, or worse yet, dismember an individual limb by limb...hmmm...waterboarding doesn't seem so bad.
All those things, including waterboarding are unbearable though. It's like saying burning alive isn't as bad as having your limbs cut off, therefore having your limbs cut off is fine.
@ulktz : Please be serious and tell me you are just kidding...right? You're comparing burning one alive or dismembering an individual limb from limb is as comparable to waterboarding? Pray tell.
I'm comparing them hypothetically. You say waterboarding doesn't seem so bad compared to other forms of torture, as if that somehow makes waterboarding OK.
@ulktz In times of war..well..Yeah. Do I feel torture is okay? No. Am I being realistic to say that during times of war we should expect our boys to quote the Geneva convention and expect the enemies to abide by it or better yet gather around the bonfire, beat drums, sing cumbaya, and by doing so make our enemies feel sentiment for our soldiers and have them do less...or need I answer that question?
Yes, absolutely. All countries should abide by the Geneva convention as closely as possible. It's basic chivalry. We're all human. We all have basic human rights. What if China invaded your home or something? And didn't abide by the Geneva convention, and started torturing civilians? What if they tortured you and your family? Because be very clear. Many in Guantanamo are civilians with no evidence of being terrorists.
@ulktz : While I admire your sense of gallantry which you feel all others are obliged to emulate, its an idealism that stretches way past the threshold of common logic, and I'm not saying that to somehow devalue, discredit, or demean what you've said. However in reality, that geneva convention seems to slip one's mind during times of war. As for China, I wouldn't have to imagine they wouldn't abide by the G.C. They are by far one of the worst human rights violaters.
@ulktz : As for your last statement about many civilians in Guantanamo being held with no proof of being terrorists...I'd only lend partial credibility to that as many that were released, were recaptured again caught fighting against our troops in efforts to kill them. Unfortunately there is no reasoning with a junk yard dog when being attacked.
i wish every single idiot who favors "torture for justice" could experience their own insanity, the pain, imagine ur stomach bursting becuase so much fucking water was poured down it, its called fucking empathy, something many people are numb to the nwo/devil/evil will have no gawddamn problem settin up shop on this fucking planet because of ppl like you and that is why i dont blame ANYONE who cuts out early- its only gonna get worse before it gets better
@snakester851 as soon as you bring up NWO your post is horse shit, im sorry but I assume you think we didnt land on the moon, and that makes you an idiot.
@snakester851 I read your reply and your general disregard for grammar or spelling explains a lot about who you are and what your about. You win bud i cannot have an intelligent conversation with you so there will be no conversation.
@itsover123ification how many ppl r gonna bag on internet spelling? huh? THERE R ONLY SO MANY LETTERS U CAN POST SO ITS CALLED ABBREVIATION, and ur ridiculous reply pissed me the fuck off!!
@snakester851 your comment got removed, that should show you that your debating skills are dusty or nonexistent. Don't get mad, I agree with your original post but I don't give conspiracy theorist the time of day. Its silly thoughts like the NWO that gets people into these types of situations where they think water boarding is acceptable.
@itsover123ification im the one who removed it bud, cuz i was writing in too much hate. I've taken a breather now, but i don't really care for arguing on the internet (u kno wat dey sey). I have just experienced the worse side of duality for sometime now here in this world and i gotta say.... come on comet elenin/end of days/wat-have-u!! cuz i really don't think that the atrocities that go on here, mostly due to our own species, should bear on anyone. I'm tired.
@snakester851 do I "kno wat dey sey"? Get firefox as a browser it will tell you when your write something like that. The "atrocities" that you speak of are smaller then in any other generation. The 21st century may seem bad to you but in reality its been very calm. My issue is with people like you that somehow think that they or there life is somehow special. Your not special, your not important and your not unique but u think u know something that other have not figured out. Thisisyourdownfall
@itsover123ification ok pal, how many times do i have to tell u.....the mispellings r intentional. Now, once u get that thru ur moronic lil head then we shall move on.... By u stating that "i am not special" all the while professing ur "greatness in the world of spelling" is by far very contradictory my unitelligent compadre. I mean, unless ur trying to say that everyone is not special save for u? If that is the case then u r mistaken twice, to b continued (thats cuz i ran outta wordz) idiot...
@snakester851 You spelled words with a z at the end, I feel like that is enough said. If not here it goes, I have no ill feelings for people that condense words, but more so to those that add a z 2 words where the don't belong. I don't feel that I am n anyway special, for I and u am a protein that when we go we will be absorbed into the land to grow grass and feed worms. I just think that u think u are smarter then every other person that you come in contact with,Thatwouldbeamiscalculation.
@itsover123ification you r sadly mistaken because every single living organism on this planet and off is part of a larger, living organism whether u believe it or not thats how it is friend. And when ppl like urself try to discredit other ppl by saying wat u said then that only makes ppl like me stronger cuz I am aware of my potential and it surpassess the very edge of intellectualism that u may think u have. Bottom line, stop trying to disempower others and instead use that energy to further u
@snakester851 Also please show me the science behind your "larger living organism" argument, because what you are saying is false as far as my understanding goes. If its not I would love to be enlightened.
@itsover123ification AGAIN BECAUSE U R STUPID..... SUM PPL ABBREVIATE THEY WORDS CUZ ONE IT PISSSES IDIOTS LIKE URSELF OFF AND TWO THERE R ONLY SO MANY FUCKING LETTERS I AM ALLOWED TO TYPE HERE SO THIS WAY I AM ABLE TO SAY MORE........ANY QUESTIONS? MORON?
@snakester851 Again, because you are stupid. Some people abbreviate there* words because, one it pisses idiots like you off, and two there are only so many #ucking letters I am allowed to type here. So this way I am able to say more. Any questions, moron?
Wow I retyped something you wrote with moderately proper grammer and still have over 100 characters left........ Try again bud.
@itsover123ification as soon as u put ur lil gremlin fingers onto ur keyboard u fukd up son! wtf makes u associate nwo w/ fake moon landing? too many youtube conspiracy vids? well fyi the NWO/ILLUMINATI are more real than ur fukn tampon shoved up ur anus, and they DID go to the moon, idk when, BUT THEY WERE WARNED OFF. And as far as "torture tacticts" go, I've been in a GAWDDAMN WAR witnessing worse shit than this to get "info" so b4 u reply back, meditate on that shit first. PEACE FUKKER!!
@TitsMcGheex2 Who are the terrorist those who kill 3500 people or those who killed over 100,000 civilians. That is the civilian loss to the people of Iraq. Imagine for a moment that 100k of your country men and women were killed unjustly what would you do to them. Your small mind has a small reach of comprehension.
@itsover123ification your small mind cant comprehend shit, much less put together a properly worded and grammatically correct paragraph. and last time i checked, it was the terrorists who were blowing up civilians on purpose not the americans.
What many dont understand is that we Americans dont do this to our civilian prisoners, and we dont even do it to terrorist if they are detained in the United States. Yes, it is grueling, and it is deplorable, but, its not like we boil suspected terrorist alive as they do over across the Afghan border in Uzbekistan. Ron Paul is my choice for President, because stuff like this, while sometimes necessary (we wouldnt of got Usama without it), surely can be stopped overtime.
To all of you who don't have a problem with torture, think about the fact that we created terrorists and the fact that America is supposed to be better than torture. If you don't understand this, YOU are not an American, because I support an America where corrupt politics that create terrorism and condone torture doesn't exist. You know, land of the free home of the brave? Torturing someone is cowardice in my opinion, especially when it's your own Frankenstein monster.
Wow, where's the cloth over the guy's face? This isn't even close to real. Also, there's no way in HELL that fox news condones waterboarding. They also don't condone terror attacks. Would you torture somebody if they could tell you where hitler was and you could kill him easily with that information? I should think so.
"The Nick Berg beheading was hardly as sweet as the Dan Perl beheading. How am I supposed to jerk it to a beheading that LAME..." Waterboarding is sexy, get over it. Lyndie "Fatface" England can order me into a big ol' "sandnigger sandwich" of a flesh pile anyday. What a man won't do for love... lol.
All of you, quit whining. Watching "Agnes of God" or "Yentl", THAT's torture, yuk yuk.
There's a difference between doing what you think is right and killing innocent people who are merely going about their lives. Terrorists are sick people, they target high population areas, care little for who they hurt and cause untold misery to thousands of people. I hate the thought that my country uses torture, but if there is even the slightest chance it will stop terrorists from blowing up a school, hospital or busy mall, then do it but only as a last resort.
@Zantair8 Very few people would kill for simply being evil or because the person they are attempting to kill has ideological differences; in other words, terrorism is not an end. Even terrorists have reasons for doing what they do. Maybe if we better understood those reasons we could prevent an environment that creates terrorism in the first place instead of having to kill other human beings to solve the problem.
Amnesty International (AI) has absolutely no credibility whatsoever. In 2009 they admitted that the main author of their "report" on Israel's Gaza offensive was a known neo-Nazi; in 2007 evidence emerged that AI "activists" were involved in the transport of weapons and funding of terrorists in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria.
@1d0nTwAnTaUsErNaMe haha, i was saying the same thing. i thought it was like a bottled water commercial and i was bobbing to the music and then i was like, "what the shit?!?!"
@thelostpassengertube go watch the Nick Berg beheading then tell me our tactics are unacceptable. Wishing the world was a certain way is just plain stupid. Accepting the reality of the situation and dealing with it accordingly is what I believe in. I pose the same questions you asked of me to yourself. So to answer your question YES I want America to snap out of this pussy Liberal mentality and send a message that attacks like September 11th will not go unanswered. Where did you grow up?
@pLaYsKo0 That's right. I agree. We are constantly under attack and Americans don't even know it. To those who think "torture does not produce reliable info" I say...your ass is still alive aren't you? sincerely, thinking of "future generations"
@Slotten68 Lol. That's right, "you would confess" and the way that this works is, the info you provide is checked out. If it's not true guess what? Yup, you guessed it...back to the drawing board(well waterboard that is).
@Cherub4874 Right... But what if you don't have any information?
You're going to make up any story that could possibly "check out". If that is impossible and doesn't happen... well I guess it sucks to be you in this case then huh?
Unfortunately psychologists, military personel and history say that your story doesn't "check out". Khalid Sheik Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times and still provided false and misleading information.
@Slotten68 183 times?? Come on, more like 10. Number of times grossly exaggerated = hidden agenda. No, it's not gonna work 100% of the time but has thwarted more attacks than u could ever imagine. These people are taught from toddlers to hate us. Not surprising there's false and misleading info given sometimes, even after torture. Know your enemies cuz they sure know you.
@Cherub4874 Official CIA documentation specifically cites the number 183... Do you think I just made that up?
These people are taught as toddlers to hate us because we have been screwing the people who raised those kids for years. Weve been bombing the middle east for 50 years and overthrew governments that were sympathetic to our position. No wonder they hate us
But thats beyond the point. My only point here is that waterboarding doens't provide legit information consistantly and is wrong
@pLaYsKo0 Are you saying that torturing hundreds of innocent people who know nothing, is ok, just because one group of extremists murdered a guy? Have you ever actually been tortured?
Torture is unacceptable. It is not a good way of getting information. It has been proven ineffective. Has it worked before? Absolutely. But the majority of the time, people confess to things they did not do, or just make up stories so the torture ends. I suggest you have some people water-board you. See how it is
Those of you that oppose the use of harsh tactics for interrogation are clueless. You just cannot grasp the fact that this is war. WAR is cruelty, it is the ultimate sign of the failure of diplomacy. Support the war or not the indisputable FACT is that we are in a war. Peoples lives are at stake and you are obligated to do what ever is necessary to Win and do it as fast as possible. t sickens me to think of the cowards that raised you and how you will pass your gutless mentality.
Most of you people are just kids probably, debating about torture and politics you cannot do anything about. Torture has gotten a lot of information and saved a lot of lifes.
@micahgee Have you even read it? I would imagine you didn't. Because you obviously don't know what you're talking about. We did get intelligence from KSM that saved thousands of lives...thanks to waterboarding. Yay Dick Cheney.
@jonkabbash I didn't read it but I read 3 scathing reviews of it, including one from a former military interrogator. According to Scotland Yard his account of how the Heathrow (U.K.) plot was foiled was a lie. So how about you give me an actual case where torture saved lives? I would not refer you to read a whole book for one simple question, particularly if the author has never served in military or intelligence...
@e105b5 That answers my question. You didn't read it so you don't know what you're talking about. End of story..checkmate. You make comments about things you know nothing about. Reading a review of a book is not the same as reading the book. Waterboarding stopped the plot to blow up airliners over american cities for one...saving thousands. But whatever I tell you wont matter your mind is made up. Get back to me when you read the book with an open mind.
@jonkabbash What is wrong with you, how didn't you know that the event you said was the same one as the one I said!? That plot was foiled here in the UK by Scotland yard because they were being surveilled after being found guilty of conspiracy to murder one year before. Also one of the people when arrested had a USB stick with details of which planes they would hit. Don't believe every "fact" you read in a book unless you can verify it for yourself.
@e105b5 We've already established that you haven't read the book so you don't know what you're talking about. Waterboarding works, and it has saved lives. I love the CIA and I'm happy my taxes went to pay for waterboarding these animals. We'll see what happens now that Obama is in charge. We'll see the results of banning enhanced interrogation techniques, I fear that Al Quaida will be more likely to succeed now. We'll just have to wait.
@jonkabbash you call these people animals when all they do is fight for thier religion, these poeple labeled terroists are doing what they believe is right, you are saying that they diserve to be tortured for having an opinion different to some person they have never met that is hundreds of miles away?
I would like to acknowldge that none of you are veterans, obviously, because you promote war.
If you had even been on the front lines for say, an hour, you wouldnt be able to sit near a window for weeks.
when a siren blows, you would huddle in a fetal position.
you are sackless piles who dont care about who's lives are ruined, so ling as you can say you have the right to talk down to them, and not be punished.
you want the right to say things that never happened and even w/ot torture ugot it
Nelson Mandela, has been jailed as a terrorist. The fighters against apartheid use terrorist actions in his war against absolutelly bigger military and policial forces. Remember that wen you said "terrorist". Dresden bomber attacks over a civil populations aren't terrorist facts?
@guilford681 you think you are a patriot, dont you? Well, do you think about the so called ''terrorists''? They could feel the same about you and I, or they could be like me, and feel the opposite way. Just because someone lives in a country where some people are called terrorists, it doesnt mean that they are all one mind.
Great Music. It always more effective to combine Great Music with your Propaganda.
The truth is that anyone who administers Waterboarding has been waterboarded himself. Also, any American Military Pilot that will fly combat missions is waterboarded. Why doesn't Amnesty International make a video about that.
If you have to string up every suspected terrorist by his balls and it saves 1 American life, then do it. Fuck you liberal asses, war is WAR it is not a kids games, with rules and do overs. Its playin for keeps guys. If they can saw the heads off innocent reporters, I think we can pour some water on these guys, I they can handle it. You all should go watch the movie "unthinkable". Good god you liberal die hards are so stupid it makes me want to vomit.
@bongtoker92 human rights ring any bells? we all have them, no matter what religion, race, creed, colour or nationality. Even terrorists have human rights. Torture of any kind is horrible, what if it was someone in your family? your friends? you? how would you feel?. Ashamed, humiliated, anxious. Imagine being drowned, but coming up for air before being pulled under again. every 'suspected' terrorist is just that, suspected, innocent until proven guilty. War is pointless really, no one ever wins
@lolgirly100 Terrorists are not human. I would not be suspected of being a terrorist nor my friends and family, because we don't do anything that even remotely resembles a terrorist act. Innocent until proven guilty only applies to Americans and uniformed soldiers that respect the Geneva convention. These cowards hide behind school children and take cover in churches. We are subject to torture by their capture so we can torture them. The ends justify the means. Do you remember 9/11?
first off, if terrorists actually terrorize you, you are an imbicile
when have terrorists ''hidden behind school children''?
when have terrorists ''taken cover in churches''?
the only thing that applies was 911, which was a GOVERNMENT BUILDING, which, btw, didnt have any civilians in the building on schedule, so fuck the idea of innocents being killed
who really inspire terror into my fellow americans? people with turbans, or with black suits and a bad lie?
@bongtoker92 CIA don't wear uniforms, are they fair game for torture?
And the people they torture aren't necessarilly terrorists, they might just be a goat farmer who had a nice piece of land and his poor neighbor from a rival tribe who's family feuded with his for centuries decided to make a thousand dollars by telling the army that his neighbor was taliban so he could get his payday and use his neighbors land after his innocent neighbor was abducted and tortured.
@ImaginarySacrifice The "victims" in question deserve everything they get as I said I have no problem with waterboarding, and in many cases I think a more medieval approach should be taken.
@klm5986 Yes everyone who confesses to being a terrorist after waterboarding is a terrorist just like every person who was put into "the rack" or was "pressed with stone" during witch trials were witches.
It's not like people would confess to things that they didn't do to make immediate pain and terror stop. Nope, no sirreeeee!
@dwc19631963 Oh good point, because we should always set the standard for our own behavior by comparison with that of our adversary. You don't think too much of this country or of those who serve it, do you?
What is the effing point of fighting torturers and terrorists if we're going to give up our traditions of justice and be like them?
If you think we shouldn't do this you are stupid, we should flay them with a rake after soaking them in water for hours to get answers. People are either overly sensitive to everything nowadays or completely desensitized. These people do what they need to so you can continue to eat your cornflakes in the morning and sleep in your beds at night without worrying if you'll die by an explosion or gun fire.
@Verator No, because the people that actually run the interrogation programs that let you eat your cornflakes in front of your computer in your jammies while you fantasize about torturing people will tell you that this crap does nothing to help gather quality intelligence, while at the same time being a recruiting goldmine for terrorist organizations.
It's nice to see people prove my statements about how ignorant people are to the world. Do you believe everything the news media feeds your pathetic mind? They wouldn't be doing it if it didn't work genius. Tell me how Bryan Whitman, you probably don't even know who that is, says Guantanamo bay has allowed us to gather a lot of information to thwart several terrorist attacks, if these methods don't work and how CIA agents even claim WB has helped thwart hundreds of past attacks?
@Verator The fact that you would cite Bryan Whitman - of all people - as a way of suggesting that I'M the one who's gullible is simply hilarious. Whitman is a professional spinner, for god's sake. Do YOU even know who he is and what he's done? Put it this way: if I'd been carrying water for torturers for as long has he has, I'd darn well say that stuff too. Funny how these claims of "valuable intelligence" are never backed up with any specific evidence, though.
@Verator But this is irrelevant. We don't trash our history of just military practices just because we're facing an enemy that behaves barbarically. Want to do some more googling over your cornflakes? Google Malcolm Nance: an intelligence expert who is someone worth listening to on waterboarding because he's done it literally thousands of times.
Nance never said that water-boarding wasn't effective, he simply said he believed it was torture. Which is his OPINION as an intelligence consultant. Many more people who still work in the intelligence community believe it works and has worked in the past. You can't prove it doesn't work. Moral dilemmas are more left up to the bleeding hearts of the world.
You can't even stay focused on your argument first it's "it doesn't work" now it's "its just wrong to do." Learn to debate.
@Verator Wrong. Nance said exactly that, and more than that: as well as being counterproductive it's also a war crime. So, time for more cornflakes: Google Nance and Harpers and see what you come up with.
In addition to Nance, I'll cite General David Petraeus ( I think you know who that is) and Ronald Reagan (signer and proponent of the UN Convention on Torture) as unequivocally opposed to torture on practical grounds, moral grounds or both.
So who are these "many more people" you mentioned?
Wrong again, Nance never said that directly yet another one who can't read. Nance even said it was effective in getting them to talk,"they'll say anything to get it to stop" are his exact words. He wouldn't even comment on effectiveness when testifying before the house subcommittee.
"Thiessen claims that we gained intelligence by using these torture techniques. But this shows that he knows nothing about the intelligence process or how our enemy grows and sustains itself."
By the way, "they'll say anything to get it to stop," taken in context with his boast that he can get Thiessen to write down that Thiessen's whole book is nonsense, clearly means 'anything at all, even things they don't believe,' (i.e., lies).
@Verator It's not a question of focusing on "it doesn't work" vs. "it's wrong," because it both doesn't work and is wrong. Either one is a good reason not to do it. But do you really want to be in the position of arguing that: 1)It's wrong but we should still do it, or worse 2) It doesn't work but we should do it anyway?
I dealt with the issue of a spokesman who claims (nonspecifically) that it's effective by citing an expert and practitioner who says it's not. Ball's in your court.
Whitman is a pentagon spokesman, i find it truly hilarious you are a conspiracy nutter as well. If you think the government releases classified information to the public about how they prevent specific attacks, then you are just a plain moron.
Saying our military practices in the past have been just shows how stupid you really are, and more over how historically ignorant you are. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was WB and he gave us valuable insight and information, that is FACT.
@Verator Yes, a spokesman. Just like I said: a professional spinner who is ideologically on board (and on record) as supporting the policies of the previous administration and organizing PR efforts to promote public acceptance of those priorities. That's what a spokesman and a political activist does. This is politics, and it is all out in the open; no conspiracy involved. Nance and others are using the term "war criminal" - so what position would you take if you were in Whitman's shoes?
@Verator There's no reason at all that information obtained from suspects being tortured couldnt be given in redacted form to Congress or Senate members w/ security clearance to clear this up.
Regarding our military regulations for 200 years: the Army Field Manual prohibited torture in broad language. From Nance: "We have prosecuted & convicted men for using these techniques in the past, and we were right to do so."
There were POW atrocities committed by USA in the past. They were never policy.
@Verator Khalid Sheikh Mohammed: again, claims of effectiveness without actual evidence provided to anyone with security clearance or otherwise, so as to clear this up.
You say I "can't prove torture doesn't work." You're exactly right. And you can't prove it does, because we just have to trust the people responsible for the torture.
I'm sorry but there is nothing less American than saying 'yes' to that situation. History? Our whole history runs against that grain. It's totalitarian.
I don't have the time or the patience to respond to all of your posts, so I'll summarize my rebuttal into one.
Why are you arguing an argument you can clearly not ever prove me wrong or win the argument? Posturing? Do you vote, write your representatives, senators? Anyone who would choose a side need choose a battle, otherwise you epitomize hypocrisy. Do something, make a difference, if you care so much about people who would murder women and children than to fight like men in war.
What you don't have is the ability to respond factually, because the facts are not in your favor.
What I said was that I cannot, literally, "prove" beyond any shadow of any doubt that no useful fact was ever learned from anyone whom our men at arms were directed to torture. Just like you cannot prove the opposite. But that has little to do with winning the argument.
The fact is that military men such as Nance and Petraeus clearly believe that WB is not necessary and we shouldn't do it.
I would never want my son to serve in a military that tortures prisoners under its complete control. Would you? Torture affects both torturer and victim. We don't need to do it, and we shouldn't. The military history of this country has been that, at the level of policy, we follow the honorable rules of war at all times; we "live our values" as Petraeus puts it.
The men I cited care about having a military that works. Politicians care about politics, talk show hosts about selling ads.
@TheBiomuse Let's pool together 200k dollars and challenge anyone who's pro torture to volunteer to be chained to a radiator for a week while we go to work on them with blowtorches.
If we can force Verator to admit to being a spy for al qaeda in a week using waterboarding and any other spanish inquisition era interrogation practices we deem effective then we get his 200k, but if we can't break him with thumb screws and the rack then he gets our money.
Why is this any more horrendous to watch than a girl being tied down or held down and continuously gang raped? If our soldiers need to do something this drastic to secure our safety against a people that wants us all dead because of our religion...then I say go for it !!!!!!!!!!!
@dwc19631963 Well great, lets just start beheading people too without trials. We have something in the United States that makes us a free republic, its called the Bill of Rights, due process, the Constitution.
If you think that allowing the government to torture people will just be used for "terrorists" youre dead wrong. Government abuses every power it is given. Dont be surprised when youre being water boarded for speaking out against something you dont like.
@Nada1962 Scenario: There's a terrorist that has placed a bomb in heavily populated area the only way to find out is torture are you going to allow all those people to die just to appear humane? Right Answer: No in this world you do what is necessary, not what you like and I find torture disgusting and inhumane but in some instances necessary the only ones who don't are idealists who have no idea of the harshness of the real world because of their sheltered lives.
@USAForLife2057 You know what the die hard martyr would do in a ticking time bomb bullshit 24 situation, he'd lie lie lie lie and lie until the bomb goes off and while the cia is chasing shadows lives would be lost.
Torture causes innocent people to confess to anything, look up the spanish inquisition you uneducated hick...Yes the people the church accused of witchcraft, tortured and who confessed to withccraft were all practitioners of the dark arts...asshat.
@NewGameReleases I'm from new jersey you presumptuous peace of shit, figures you can't come up with an intelligent retort so you stick to petty insults.
@USAForLife2057 Yep, cuz there aint nothin more intellegent then that there yer mom joke! yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
problem is if you torture someone they'll just say yes or tell you what they think you want to hear not whats actually true hence all the faulty intelligence issues that plagued the CIA during the Bush presidency when torture tactics were used allot.
Waterboarding isnt torture if you ask me and to be honest if there were a situation where extracting information meant preventing a terrorist attack then I would be all for doing whatever is required. I say get Kieffer Sutherland in the room and lets get some answers lol.
@klm5986 Not under my control. You, on the other hand, are free to contact SERE director Malcolm Nance any time and set up your appointment to be waterboarded. He'll require something of you during your session, however: to say that that what he's doing is torture. And you'll say it, because you will say anything he wants you to say, whether you believe it or you don't, to make him stop. That's why torture is known to be an ineffective tool for quality intelligence gathering.
Just turning a hose on someones face or dumping a gallon of water on their face is not waterboarding... just a rather bad attempt to drown someone. Typically a sheet of saran wrap would be put over the detainees face, and a small hole would be poked in it over his mouth. Water would thereafter be dumped on the wrap and only a small stream will enter the detaines mouth through the hole to simulate drowning. Or so I heard (trying hard to look innocent)
Just turning a hose on someones face or dumping a gallon of water on their face is not waterboarding... just a rather bad attempt to drown someone. Typically a sheet of saran wrap would be put over the detainees face, and a small hole would be poked in it over his mouth. Water would thereafter be dumped on the wrap and only a small stream will enter the detaines mouth through the hole to simulate drowning. Or so I heard (trying hard to look innocent)
i'd rather waterboard one man if it meant keeping 20 people from getting blasted to shreds from a roadside bomb. Also, even though some guys don't have the info, better safe than sorry. Most of them do,
@baz00katooth So if you're suspected of being a mass murderer in america, the fbi should go to your home in the middle of the night, gun down your family, drag you out of bed and into their black van with a hood over your head, take you to a black site torture facility and torture you until you tell everyone you're a serial killer?
Sure you might be innocent but there is no habeus corpus for suspected murderers, so the fbi can torture away and when you confess you get the death penalty.
@dffykvn give me an example in which the fbi gunned down a us citizen's family and forced them to confess false info through torture on us soil and i might understand your logic.
also if the fbi did come after me for being a mass murderer, chances are their intel is pretty legit.
@baz00katooth Reagan prosecuted a texas sheriff and 3 deputies who got a 10 year sentance for waterboarding confessions out of criminals.
If it's too cruel and brutal for that monster Reagan it should be to cruel and brutal for us.
At least Reagan wasn't too stupid to realize that confessions under torture aren't legit because the victim will say anything even confess to crimes to stop the torture.
People were sold to us for AQ bounty without evidence so accusers could get rich.
maybe the US should try public executions of "proven" (not sure how would prove) terrorists to get them to stop attacking. seemed to work for China with Somali pirates, maybe less anger from other countries/people and probably don't get anything good from terrorists anyway. Or not, can't say I know/care about topic
@TearyWrist Maybe we shouldn't bother with trials and kill everyone accused of a crime.
You're accused of rape/murder/larceny? We don't need DNA evidence, we just take you over to the torture chamber to make you confess than chop your head off at the executioners block.
doesn't look that bad...besides, if he wants it to stop, maybe they should give up the damn information, they're only making it harder on themselves...wait a sec, maybe that's the plan...make waterboarding sound so terrible, that they'll just give up the information at the mention of the word...
You're assuming that they actually know something. Even if they are terrorists the best thing they could give us us the the name of their cell-leader which is completely useless.
None of the idiots opposing this remember that these are diehard terrorists and criminals, sworn to the destruction of the US. They won't care what your "feelings" are on this matter or anything else. You are already dead to them. Did they care Daniel Pearl was a liberal when they cut off his head as he screamed?? The only question that remains is would they like a twist of lemon in their water, or lime?
Goombah1212 6 days ago
A campaign to outlaw waterboarding? If you outlaw waterboarding only outlaws will waterboard (the USA and its brutal allies). It is already illegal anyway. The USA is not going to abide by any international laws, period. International laws apply to other countries.
klard 1 week ago
No, CIA cited 183 pours not 183 sessions. Sheesh even a 5th grader can figure out that number wouldn't add up considering the length of time they were detained. Stop drinking the koolaid and use your brain. And I hate to bust your bubble these people hate us for their "religious" reasons. They see us as infidels, always have.
Cherub4874 2 weeks ago
@Cherub4874 ...Well I have a source. Go to nytimes dot com and then:
2009/04/20/world/20detain.html
That is the article. He was "waterboarded 183 times in March of 2003" on top of many other things like being held naked in captivity for way over a month staright
Slotten68 2 weeks ago
@Slotten68 NYTimes huh? Not surprising at all. Some advice 4 u, don't ever watch "24" or the movie "Unthinkable" you'll have a stroke or sumthin. We can just agree to disagree.
Cherub4874 2 weeks ago
@Slotten68 check out 3 w's dot foxnews dot com front slash politics
Then search under "mohammed waterboarded 183 times" check it out.
Cherub4874 2 weeks ago
WAUKEE > VALLEY
warriorhansen 4 weeks ago
Why is pouring water over your face painful...? I don't really get it, don't flame me please. I seriously need someone to explain it to me. I looked it up and it just told me the definition of it, not why it's painful
Nicro327 1 month ago
@Nicro327 here's an example: have you ever been to the pool and got water in ur nose? try having it like that for ten seconds with the water coming. It tears your insides up with th water. That is why its painful. i dont reccomend trying it, i didnt survive three seconds before bursting.
Shad0wBlaster 1 month ago
@Shad0wBlaster Oh yeah I've had that happen, so painful
Nicro327 1 month ago
@Nicro327 Well im not too sure but I figure if it's high up it would probably feel like someone hit you in the face really hard. If it's high up in the air and a lot of water is coming down on your face it probably would hurt. can you imagine? .. hopefully that helped?
gothgirl4813 3 weeks ago
@gothgirl4813 You can't breathe, water gets everywhere...EVERWHERE
You think you're drowning so you start to jolt & jerk out of it but you're tied down so you can't escape. Seconds later comes extreme claustraphobia, then complete and total deathly panic. People who doubted how serious it was tried doing it on camera and only lasted seconds. Months later they still have nightmares, flashbacks and panic attacks by the sound of slow pouring water or the feel of a soaking wet cloth. It's no joke
Slotten68 2 weeks ago
@Slotten68 XD Well ya but I figured that was obvious. Who said it was a joke though?
gothgirl4813 2 weeks ago
they forgot to put the mask on him
rubydubus 1 month ago
Ohno AHHH FUCKK I wouldnt wish that on anybody oh NAWWWW!!!!!!
Josephjoel3 1 month ago
now im thirsty.
TheCrazyhorse1111 1 month ago
Rather have this done to me than sit through the Ellen show with my gf
lawnboyinthehood1980 2 months ago
Fucking morons who made this commercial did it wrong.
SpoonfullofSandrock 3 months ago
I guess it beats slowly being skinned alive, or having needles being stuck underneath one's fingernails, or having one take a wet sponge with electrical plugs and rub them on bare flesh, or crush one's finger joints with a set of pliers or using a white hot metal poke and branding one throughout one's body, or worse yet, dismember an individual limb by limb...hmmm...waterboarding doesn't seem so bad.
twilson11208 4 months ago
@twilson11208
All those things, including waterboarding are unbearable though. It's like saying burning alive isn't as bad as having your limbs cut off, therefore having your limbs cut off is fine.
ulktz 3 months ago
@ulktz : Please be serious and tell me you are just kidding...right? You're comparing burning one alive or dismembering an individual limb from limb is as comparable to waterboarding? Pray tell.
twilson11208 3 months ago
@twilson11208
I'm comparing them hypothetically. You say waterboarding doesn't seem so bad compared to other forms of torture, as if that somehow makes waterboarding OK.
ulktz 3 months ago
@ulktz In times of war..well..Yeah. Do I feel torture is okay? No. Am I being realistic to say that during times of war we should expect our boys to quote the Geneva convention and expect the enemies to abide by it or better yet gather around the bonfire, beat drums, sing cumbaya, and by doing so make our enemies feel sentiment for our soldiers and have them do less...or need I answer that question?
twilson11208 3 months ago
@twilson11208
Yes, absolutely. All countries should abide by the Geneva convention as closely as possible. It's basic chivalry. We're all human. We all have basic human rights. What if China invaded your home or something? And didn't abide by the Geneva convention, and started torturing civilians? What if they tortured you and your family? Because be very clear. Many in Guantanamo are civilians with no evidence of being terrorists.
ulktz 3 months ago
@ulktz : While I admire your sense of gallantry which you feel all others are obliged to emulate, its an idealism that stretches way past the threshold of common logic, and I'm not saying that to somehow devalue, discredit, or demean what you've said. However in reality, that geneva convention seems to slip one's mind during times of war. As for China, I wouldn't have to imagine they wouldn't abide by the G.C. They are by far one of the worst human rights violaters.
twilson11208 3 months ago
@ulktz : As for your last statement about many civilians in Guantanamo being held with no proof of being terrorists...I'd only lend partial credibility to that as many that were released, were recaptured again caught fighting against our troops in efforts to kill them. Unfortunately there is no reasoning with a junk yard dog when being attacked.
twilson11208 3 months ago
@twilson11208 "many that were released, were recaptured again caught fighting against our troops in efforts to kill them."
Source?
ulktz 3 months ago
@ulktz flipped into double agents
SuperBlogdog 1 month ago
@twilson11208 - flipped - sent back as double agents & provocateurs - common tactic
SuperBlogdog 1 month ago
a comment that isn't a paragraph long, C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!
stix471 5 months ago 2
i nearly drowned once. its rather unpleasant. seems to last a very long time.
zaroffhound 6 months ago
i wish every single idiot who favors "torture for justice" could experience their own insanity, the pain, imagine ur stomach bursting becuase so much fucking water was poured down it, its called fucking empathy, something many people are numb to the nwo/devil/evil will have no gawddamn problem settin up shop on this fucking planet because of ppl like you and that is why i dont blame ANYONE who cuts out early- its only gonna get worse before it gets better
snakester851 6 months ago
@snakester851 as soon as you bring up NWO your post is horse shit, im sorry but I assume you think we didnt land on the moon, and that makes you an idiot.
itsover123ification 6 months ago
Comment removed
snakester851 6 months ago
@snakester851 I read your reply and your general disregard for grammar or spelling explains a lot about who you are and what your about. You win bud i cannot have an intelligent conversation with you so there will be no conversation.
itsover123ification 6 months ago
@itsover123ification how many ppl r gonna bag on internet spelling? huh? THERE R ONLY SO MANY LETTERS U CAN POST SO ITS CALLED ABBREVIATION, and ur ridiculous reply pissed me the fuck off!!
snakester851 6 months ago
@snakester851 your comment got removed, that should show you that your debating skills are dusty or nonexistent. Don't get mad, I agree with your original post but I don't give conspiracy theorist the time of day. Its silly thoughts like the NWO that gets people into these types of situations where they think water boarding is acceptable.
itsover123ification 6 months ago
@itsover123ification im the one who removed it bud, cuz i was writing in too much hate. I've taken a breather now, but i don't really care for arguing on the internet (u kno wat dey sey). I have just experienced the worse side of duality for sometime now here in this world and i gotta say.... come on comet elenin/end of days/wat-have-u!! cuz i really don't think that the atrocities that go on here, mostly due to our own species, should bear on anyone. I'm tired.
snakester851 6 months ago
@snakester851 do I "kno wat dey sey"? Get firefox as a browser it will tell you when your write something like that. The "atrocities" that you speak of are smaller then in any other generation. The 21st century may seem bad to you but in reality its been very calm. My issue is with people like you that somehow think that they or there life is somehow special. Your not special, your not important and your not unique but u think u know something that other have not figured out. Thisisyourdownfall
itsover123ification 6 months ago
@itsover123ification ok pal, how many times do i have to tell u.....the mispellings r intentional. Now, once u get that thru ur moronic lil head then we shall move on.... By u stating that "i am not special" all the while professing ur "greatness in the world of spelling" is by far very contradictory my unitelligent compadre. I mean, unless ur trying to say that everyone is not special save for u? If that is the case then u r mistaken twice, to b continued (thats cuz i ran outta wordz) idiot...
snakester851 6 months ago
@snakester851 You spelled words with a z at the end, I feel like that is enough said. If not here it goes, I have no ill feelings for people that condense words, but more so to those that add a z 2 words where the don't belong. I don't feel that I am n anyway special, for I and u am a protein that when we go we will be absorbed into the land to grow grass and feed worms. I just think that u think u are smarter then every other person that you come in contact with,Thatwouldbeamiscalculation.
itsover123ification 6 months ago
@itsover123ification you r sadly mistaken because every single living organism on this planet and off is part of a larger, living organism whether u believe it or not thats how it is friend. And when ppl like urself try to discredit other ppl by saying wat u said then that only makes ppl like me stronger cuz I am aware of my potential and it surpassess the very edge of intellectualism that u may think u have. Bottom line, stop trying to disempower others and instead use that energy to further u
snakester851 6 months ago
@snakester851 Also please show me the science behind your "larger living organism" argument, because what you are saying is false as far as my understanding goes. If its not I would love to be enlightened.
itsover123ification 6 months ago
@itsover123ification why certainly.... check out FRACTALS, pretty much proves that everything is a replica of the whole.....check it out
snakester851 6 months ago
@itsover123ification AGAIN BECAUSE U R STUPID..... SUM PPL ABBREVIATE THEY WORDS CUZ ONE IT PISSSES IDIOTS LIKE URSELF OFF AND TWO THERE R ONLY SO MANY FUCKING LETTERS I AM ALLOWED TO TYPE HERE SO THIS WAY I AM ABLE TO SAY MORE........ANY QUESTIONS? MORON?
snakester851 6 months ago
@snakester851 Again, because you are stupid. Some people abbreviate there* words because, one it pisses idiots like you off, and two there are only so many #ucking letters I am allowed to type here. So this way I am able to say more. Any questions, moron?
Wow I retyped something you wrote with moderately proper grammer and still have over 100 characters left........ Try again bud.
itsover123ification 6 months ago
@itsover123ification as soon as u put ur lil gremlin fingers onto ur keyboard u fukd up son! wtf makes u associate nwo w/ fake moon landing? too many youtube conspiracy vids? well fyi the NWO/ILLUMINATI are more real than ur fukn tampon shoved up ur anus, and they DID go to the moon, idk when, BUT THEY WERE WARNED OFF. And as far as "torture tacticts" go, I've been in a GAWDDAMN WAR witnessing worse shit than this to get "info" so b4 u reply back, meditate on that shit first. PEACE FUKKER!!
snakester851 6 months ago
fuck em. terrorists deserve much worse.
TitsMcGheex2 6 months ago
@TitsMcGheex2 Who are the terrorist those who kill 3500 people or those who killed over 100,000 civilians. That is the civilian loss to the people of Iraq. Imagine for a moment that 100k of your country men and women were killed unjustly what would you do to them. Your small mind has a small reach of comprehension.
itsover123ification 6 months ago
@itsover123ification your small mind cant comprehend shit, much less put together a properly worded and grammatically correct paragraph. and last time i checked, it was the terrorists who were blowing up civilians on purpose not the americans.
TitsMcGheex2 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Fuck this planet, fuck all of you
SomeBlokeLol 7 months ago
What many dont understand is that we Americans dont do this to our civilian prisoners, and we dont even do it to terrorist if they are detained in the United States. Yes, it is grueling, and it is deplorable, but, its not like we boil suspected terrorist alive as they do over across the Afghan border in Uzbekistan. Ron Paul is my choice for President, because stuff like this, while sometimes necessary (we wouldnt of got Usama without it), surely can be stopped overtime.
HalfBornUnicornFetus 7 months ago
whats the song?
racered94 8 months ago
@racered94 burn the clock
LtColPayPay 7 months ago
SCARY WATER, OMFG IT'S MAKING MY HAND GO CRAZY! EVIL!
Vengrence 8 months ago
Hit hit again; he ain't talking yet.
jakedill1104 8 months ago
Guy looks thirsty. The Ninjas were just giving him a drink.
MadMilitiaMen 8 months ago
To all of you who don't have a problem with torture, think about the fact that we created terrorists and the fact that America is supposed to be better than torture. If you don't understand this, YOU are not an American, because I support an America where corrupt politics that create terrorism and condone torture doesn't exist. You know, land of the free home of the brave? Torturing someone is cowardice in my opinion, especially when it's your own Frankenstein monster.
MasteroChieftan 8 months ago
@MasteroChieftan sadly most americans do not seem to understand that.. it is not only their fault though.. brainwashing has occurred.
Wemsel69 8 months ago
Wow, where's the cloth over the guy's face? This isn't even close to real. Also, there's no way in HELL that fox news condones waterboarding. They also don't condone terror attacks. Would you torture somebody if they could tell you where hitler was and you could kill him easily with that information? I should think so.
D13fledermause 8 months ago
Okay, they're not even doing it right. There's supposed to be a wet cloth over the mouth and nose or else it doesn't work
wiseidiot5763 9 months ago
Awesome!
death7metal7girl7 9 months ago
"The Nick Berg beheading was hardly as sweet as the Dan Perl beheading. How am I supposed to jerk it to a beheading that LAME..." Waterboarding is sexy, get over it. Lyndie "Fatface" England can order me into a big ol' "sandnigger sandwich" of a flesh pile anyday. What a man won't do for love... lol.
All of you, quit whining. Watching "Agnes of God" or "Yentl", THAT's torture, yuk yuk.
NKVism1 10 months ago
To whom it may concern, If you don't want to be interrogated harshly, don't commit terrorists acts or hang out with terrorists.
HangInOutInCa 11 months ago
There's a difference between doing what you think is right and killing innocent people who are merely going about their lives. Terrorists are sick people, they target high population areas, care little for who they hurt and cause untold misery to thousands of people. I hate the thought that my country uses torture, but if there is even the slightest chance it will stop terrorists from blowing up a school, hospital or busy mall, then do it but only as a last resort.
Zantair8 11 months ago 2
@Zantair8 Very few people would kill for simply being evil or because the person they are attempting to kill has ideological differences; in other words, terrorism is not an end. Even terrorists have reasons for doing what they do. Maybe if we better understood those reasons we could prevent an environment that creates terrorism in the first place instead of having to kill other human beings to solve the problem.
PazGuerro 6 days ago
that's not even how waterborading is really done. wtf Amnesty International?
oldstock1607 11 months ago 2
Amnesty International (AI) has absolutely no credibility whatsoever. In 2009 they admitted that the main author of their "report" on Israel's Gaza offensive was a known neo-Nazi; in 2007 evidence emerged that AI "activists" were involved in the transport of weapons and funding of terrorists in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria.
AI is truly an immoral organization.
watabej 1 year ago 2
Hey this is a good song....
oh wtf!?!?
1d0nTwAnTaUsErNaMe 1 year ago
@1d0nTwAnTaUsErNaMe haha, i was saying the same thing. i thought it was like a bottled water commercial and i was bobbing to the music and then i was like, "what the shit?!?!"
ShiverTheClown 1 year ago
Any form of torture is barbaric and seldom produces reliable information.
1stQueenOfHearts 1 year ago
Whether it is morally right or wrong, torture does not produce RELIABLE information.
Destroyer220 1 year ago
@thelostpassengertube go watch the Nick Berg beheading then tell me our tactics are unacceptable. Wishing the world was a certain way is just plain stupid. Accepting the reality of the situation and dealing with it accordingly is what I believe in. I pose the same questions you asked of me to yourself. So to answer your question YES I want America to snap out of this pussy Liberal mentality and send a message that attacks like September 11th will not go unanswered. Where did you grow up?
pLaYsKo0 1 year ago 3
@pLaYsKo0 Message like getting your butts kicked in afghanistan? lolololooo
Darusdei 1 year ago
@pLaYsKo0 That's right. I agree. We are constantly under attack and Americans don't even know it. To those who think "torture does not produce reliable info" I say...your ass is still alive aren't you? sincerely, thinking of "future generations"
Cherub4874 1 year ago 3
@Cherub4874 After ten or twenty seconds of waterboarding, you would confess to kidnapping Lindbergh's child and wearing women's underwear.
Slotten68 2 weeks ago
@Slotten68 Lol. That's right, "you would confess" and the way that this works is, the info you provide is checked out. If it's not true guess what? Yup, you guessed it...back to the drawing board(well waterboard that is).
Cherub4874 2 weeks ago
@Cherub4874 Right... But what if you don't have any information?
You're going to make up any story that could possibly "check out". If that is impossible and doesn't happen... well I guess it sucks to be you in this case then huh?
Unfortunately psychologists, military personel and history say that your story doesn't "check out". Khalid Sheik Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times and still provided false and misleading information.
Slotten68 2 weeks ago
@Slotten68 183 times?? Come on, more like 10. Number of times grossly exaggerated = hidden agenda. No, it's not gonna work 100% of the time but has thwarted more attacks than u could ever imagine. These people are taught from toddlers to hate us. Not surprising there's false and misleading info given sometimes, even after torture. Know your enemies cuz they sure know you.
Cherub4874 2 weeks ago
@Cherub4874 Official CIA documentation specifically cites the number 183... Do you think I just made that up?
These people are taught as toddlers to hate us because we have been screwing the people who raised those kids for years. Weve been bombing the middle east for 50 years and overthrew governments that were sympathetic to our position. No wonder they hate us
But thats beyond the point. My only point here is that waterboarding doens't provide legit information consistantly and is wrong
Slotten68 2 weeks ago
@pLaYsKo0 Shame on you for STILL believing 9/11 was acted out by anyone other then our own American government in the year 2011.
Stop watching FOX and open your fucking eyes.
FreshSinceMyGenesis 10 months ago
@pLaYsKo0 Are you saying that torturing hundreds of innocent people who know nothing, is ok, just because one group of extremists murdered a guy? Have you ever actually been tortured?
Torture is unacceptable. It is not a good way of getting information. It has been proven ineffective. Has it worked before? Absolutely. But the majority of the time, people confess to things they did not do, or just make up stories so the torture ends. I suggest you have some people water-board you. See how it is
Andrewet123 6 months ago
that wasnt waterboarding .....
loeningg 1 year ago
@loeningg Its a form of waterboarding, there are several ways to be "waterboarded"
RyanR495 1 year ago
That was awesome! I do love a little waterboarding!!
jonkabbash 1 year ago
Those of you that oppose the use of harsh tactics for interrogation are clueless. You just cannot grasp the fact that this is war. WAR is cruelty, it is the ultimate sign of the failure of diplomacy. Support the war or not the indisputable FACT is that we are in a war. Peoples lives are at stake and you are obligated to do what ever is necessary to Win and do it as fast as possible. t sickens me to think of the cowards that raised you and how you will pass your gutless mentality.
pLaYsKo0 1 year ago
Most of you people are just kids probably, debating about torture and politics you cannot do anything about. Torture has gotten a lot of information and saved a lot of lifes.
EntertainmentTrends 1 year ago
@EntertainmentTrends Give an example case where torture got information that saved lives please, I'll be waiting.
e105b5 1 year ago
@e105b5 Read "Courting Disaster" by Marc Thiessen...It talks all about lives saved by the enhanced interrogation techniques.
jonkabbash 1 year ago
@jonkabbash
that book is full of rubbish.
Torture does not work, never has and never will be a source of reliable information period.
micahgee 1 year ago
@micahgee Have you even read it? I would imagine you didn't. Because you obviously don't know what you're talking about. We did get intelligence from KSM that saved thousands of lives...thanks to waterboarding. Yay Dick Cheney.
jonkabbash 1 year ago
@jonkabbash I didn't read it but I read 3 scathing reviews of it, including one from a former military interrogator. According to Scotland Yard his account of how the Heathrow (U.K.) plot was foiled was a lie. So how about you give me an actual case where torture saved lives? I would not refer you to read a whole book for one simple question, particularly if the author has never served in military or intelligence...
e105b5 1 year ago 3
@e105b5 That answers my question. You didn't read it so you don't know what you're talking about. End of story..checkmate. You make comments about things you know nothing about. Reading a review of a book is not the same as reading the book. Waterboarding stopped the plot to blow up airliners over american cities for one...saving thousands. But whatever I tell you wont matter your mind is made up. Get back to me when you read the book with an open mind.
jonkabbash 1 year ago
@jonkabbash What is wrong with you, how didn't you know that the event you said was the same one as the one I said!? That plot was foiled here in the UK by Scotland yard because they were being surveilled after being found guilty of conspiracy to murder one year before. Also one of the people when arrested had a USB stick with details of which planes they would hit. Don't believe every "fact" you read in a book unless you can verify it for yourself.
e105b5 1 year ago 16
@e105b5 We've already established that you haven't read the book so you don't know what you're talking about. Waterboarding works, and it has saved lives. I love the CIA and I'm happy my taxes went to pay for waterboarding these animals. We'll see what happens now that Obama is in charge. We'll see the results of banning enhanced interrogation techniques, I fear that Al Quaida will be more likely to succeed now. We'll just have to wait.
jonkabbash 1 year ago
@jonkabbash you call these people animals when all they do is fight for thier religion, these poeple labeled terroists are doing what they believe is right, you are saying that they diserve to be tortured for having an opinion different to some person they have never met that is hundreds of miles away?
DreadWerehog 11 months ago
I would like to acknowldge that none of you are veterans, obviously, because you promote war.
If you had even been on the front lines for say, an hour, you wouldnt be able to sit near a window for weeks.
when a siren blows, you would huddle in a fetal position.
you are sackless piles who dont care about who's lives are ruined, so ling as you can say you have the right to talk down to them, and not be punished.
you want the right to say things that never happened and even w/ot torture ugot it
itschewingu 1 year ago
Nelson Mandela, has been jailed as a terrorist. The fighters against apartheid use terrorist actions in his war against absolutelly bigger military and policial forces. Remember that wen you said "terrorist". Dresden bomber attacks over a civil populations aren't terrorist facts?
joseesblanco 1 year ago
toruture all arab fucks!
guilford681 1 year ago
@guilford681 you think you are a patriot, dont you? Well, do you think about the so called ''terrorists''? They could feel the same about you and I, or they could be like me, and feel the opposite way. Just because someone lives in a country where some people are called terrorists, it doesnt mean that they are all one mind.
Oh, and P.S., Fuck you
itschewingu 1 year ago
Great Music. It always more effective to combine Great Music with your Propaganda.
The truth is that anyone who administers Waterboarding has been waterboarded himself. Also, any American Military Pilot that will fly combat missions is waterboarded. Why doesn't Amnesty International make a video about that.
MrNeroBurns 1 year ago
What a load of liberal shit.........
Torture them all for trying to change our lives with evil acts,I have no sympathy for these evil scum,hang em all .
In fact bomb them all
t9alizee 1 year ago
If you have to string up every suspected terrorist by his balls and it saves 1 American life, then do it. Fuck you liberal asses, war is WAR it is not a kids games, with rules and do overs. Its playin for keeps guys. If they can saw the heads off innocent reporters, I think we can pour some water on these guys, I they can handle it. You all should go watch the movie "unthinkable". Good god you liberal die hards are so stupid it makes me want to vomit.
bongtoker92 1 year ago
@bongtoker92 human rights ring any bells? we all have them, no matter what religion, race, creed, colour or nationality. Even terrorists have human rights. Torture of any kind is horrible, what if it was someone in your family? your friends? you? how would you feel?. Ashamed, humiliated, anxious. Imagine being drowned, but coming up for air before being pulled under again. every 'suspected' terrorist is just that, suspected, innocent until proven guilty. War is pointless really, no one ever wins
lolgirly100 1 year ago
@lolgirly100 Terrorists are not human. I would not be suspected of being a terrorist nor my friends and family, because we don't do anything that even remotely resembles a terrorist act. Innocent until proven guilty only applies to Americans and uniformed soldiers that respect the Geneva convention. These cowards hide behind school children and take cover in churches. We are subject to torture by their capture so we can torture them. The ends justify the means. Do you remember 9/11?
bongtoker92 1 year ago
ok, ya stupid fuck, listen up
first off, if terrorists actually terrorize you, you are an imbicile
when have terrorists ''hidden behind school children''?
when have terrorists ''taken cover in churches''?
the only thing that applies was 911, which was a GOVERNMENT BUILDING, which, btw, didnt have any civilians in the building on schedule, so fuck the idea of innocents being killed
who really inspire terror into my fellow americans? people with turbans, or with black suits and a bad lie?
itschewingu 1 year ago
@bongtoker92 CIA don't wear uniforms, are they fair game for torture?
And the people they torture aren't necessarilly terrorists, they might just be a goat farmer who had a nice piece of land and his poor neighbor from a rival tribe who's family feuded with his for centuries decided to make a thousand dollars by telling the army that his neighbor was taliban so he could get his payday and use his neighbors land after his innocent neighbor was abducted and tortured.
dffykvn 1 year ago
@Nada1962 took the words right outta my mouth
MultiVaultDweller 1 year ago
go torture! :D
lukemattar 1 year ago
@ImaginarySacrifice The "victims" in question deserve everything they get as I said I have no problem with waterboarding, and in many cases I think a more medieval approach should be taken.
klm5986 1 year ago
@klm5986 Yes everyone who confesses to being a terrorist after waterboarding is a terrorist just like every person who was put into "the rack" or was "pressed with stone" during witch trials were witches.
It's not like people would confess to things that they didn't do to make immediate pain and terror stop. Nope, no sirreeeee!
/goosesteps away
dffykvn 1 year ago
@dwc19631963 Oh good point, because we should always set the standard for our own behavior by comparison with that of our adversary. You don't think too much of this country or of those who serve it, do you?
What is the effing point of fighting torturers and terrorists if we're going to give up our traditions of justice and be like them?
TheBiomuse 1 year ago
If you think we shouldn't do this you are stupid, we should flay them with a rake after soaking them in water for hours to get answers. People are either overly sensitive to everything nowadays or completely desensitized. These people do what they need to so you can continue to eat your cornflakes in the morning and sleep in your beds at night without worrying if you'll die by an explosion or gun fire.
Verator 1 year ago
@Verator No, because the people that actually run the interrogation programs that let you eat your cornflakes in front of your computer in your jammies while you fantasize about torturing people will tell you that this crap does nothing to help gather quality intelligence, while at the same time being a recruiting goldmine for terrorist organizations.
TheBiomuse 1 year ago
@TheBiomuse
It's nice to see people prove my statements about how ignorant people are to the world. Do you believe everything the news media feeds your pathetic mind? They wouldn't be doing it if it didn't work genius. Tell me how Bryan Whitman, you probably don't even know who that is, says Guantanamo bay has allowed us to gather a lot of information to thwart several terrorist attacks, if these methods don't work and how CIA agents even claim WB has helped thwart hundreds of past attacks?
Verator 1 year ago
@Verator The fact that you would cite Bryan Whitman - of all people - as a way of suggesting that I'M the one who's gullible is simply hilarious. Whitman is a professional spinner, for god's sake. Do YOU even know who he is and what he's done? Put it this way: if I'd been carrying water for torturers for as long has he has, I'd darn well say that stuff too. Funny how these claims of "valuable intelligence" are never backed up with any specific evidence, though.
TheBiomuse 1 year ago
@Verator But this is irrelevant. We don't trash our history of just military practices just because we're facing an enemy that behaves barbarically. Want to do some more googling over your cornflakes? Google Malcolm Nance: an intelligence expert who is someone worth listening to on waterboarding because he's done it literally thousands of times.
TheBiomuse 1 year ago
@TheBiomuse
Nance never said that water-boarding wasn't effective, he simply said he believed it was torture. Which is his OPINION as an intelligence consultant. Many more people who still work in the intelligence community believe it works and has worked in the past. You can't prove it doesn't work. Moral dilemmas are more left up to the bleeding hearts of the world.
You can't even stay focused on your argument first it's "it doesn't work" now it's "its just wrong to do." Learn to debate.
Verator 1 year ago
@Verator Wrong. Nance said exactly that, and more than that: as well as being counterproductive it's also a war crime. So, time for more cornflakes: Google Nance and Harpers and see what you come up with.
In addition to Nance, I'll cite General David Petraeus ( I think you know who that is) and Ronald Reagan (signer and proponent of the UN Convention on Torture) as unequivocally opposed to torture on practical grounds, moral grounds or both.
So who are these "many more people" you mentioned?
TheBiomuse 1 year ago
@TheBiomuse
Wrong again, Nance never said that directly yet another one who can't read. Nance even said it was effective in getting them to talk,"they'll say anything to get it to stop" are his exact words. He wouldn't even comment on effectiveness when testifying before the house subcommittee.
Verator 1 year ago
@Verator Sigh. Shall I just quote directly then?
"Thiessen claims that we gained intelligence by using these torture techniques. But this shows that he knows nothing about the intelligence process or how our enemy grows and sustains itself."
By the way, "they'll say anything to get it to stop," taken in context with his boast that he can get Thiessen to write down that Thiessen's whole book is nonsense, clearly means 'anything at all, even things they don't believe,' (i.e., lies).
TheBiomuse 1 year ago
@Verator It's not a question of focusing on "it doesn't work" vs. "it's wrong," because it both doesn't work and is wrong. Either one is a good reason not to do it. But do you really want to be in the position of arguing that: 1)It's wrong but we should still do it, or worse 2) It doesn't work but we should do it anyway?
I dealt with the issue of a spokesman who claims (nonspecifically) that it's effective by citing an expert and practitioner who says it's not. Ball's in your court.
TheBiomuse 1 year ago
@biotard
Whitman is a pentagon spokesman, i find it truly hilarious you are a conspiracy nutter as well. If you think the government releases classified information to the public about how they prevent specific attacks, then you are just a plain moron.
Saying our military practices in the past have been just shows how stupid you really are, and more over how historically ignorant you are. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was WB and he gave us valuable insight and information, that is FACT.
Verator 1 year ago
@Verator Yes, a spokesman. Just like I said: a professional spinner who is ideologically on board (and on record) as supporting the policies of the previous administration and organizing PR efforts to promote public acceptance of those priorities. That's what a spokesman and a political activist does. This is politics, and it is all out in the open; no conspiracy involved. Nance and others are using the term "war criminal" - so what position would you take if you were in Whitman's shoes?
TheBiomuse 1 year ago
@Verator There's no reason at all that information obtained from suspects being tortured couldnt be given in redacted form to Congress or Senate members w/ security clearance to clear this up.
Regarding our military regulations for 200 years: the Army Field Manual prohibited torture in broad language. From Nance: "We have prosecuted & convicted men for using these techniques in the past, and we were right to do so."
There were POW atrocities committed by USA in the past. They were never policy.
TheBiomuse 1 year ago
@Verator Khalid Sheikh Mohammed: again, claims of effectiveness without actual evidence provided to anyone with security clearance or otherwise, so as to clear this up.
You say I "can't prove torture doesn't work." You're exactly right. And you can't prove it does, because we just have to trust the people responsible for the torture.
I'm sorry but there is nothing less American than saying 'yes' to that situation. History? Our whole history runs against that grain. It's totalitarian.
TheBiomuse 1 year ago
@TheBiomuse
I don't have the time or the patience to respond to all of your posts, so I'll summarize my rebuttal into one.
Why are you arguing an argument you can clearly not ever prove me wrong or win the argument? Posturing? Do you vote, write your representatives, senators? Anyone who would choose a side need choose a battle, otherwise you epitomize hypocrisy. Do something, make a difference, if you care so much about people who would murder women and children than to fight like men in war.
Verator 1 year ago
@Verator
What you don't have is the ability to respond factually, because the facts are not in your favor.
What I said was that I cannot, literally, "prove" beyond any shadow of any doubt that no useful fact was ever learned from anyone whom our men at arms were directed to torture. Just like you cannot prove the opposite. But that has little to do with winning the argument.
The fact is that military men such as Nance and Petraeus clearly believe that WB is not necessary and we shouldn't do it.
TheBiomuse 1 year ago
@Verator
I would never want my son to serve in a military that tortures prisoners under its complete control. Would you? Torture affects both torturer and victim. We don't need to do it, and we shouldn't. The military history of this country has been that, at the level of policy, we follow the honorable rules of war at all times; we "live our values" as Petraeus puts it.
The men I cited care about having a military that works. Politicians care about politics, talk show hosts about selling ads.
TheBiomuse 1 year ago
@TheBiomuse Let's pool together 200k dollars and challenge anyone who's pro torture to volunteer to be chained to a radiator for a week while we go to work on them with blowtorches.
If we can force Verator to admit to being a spy for al qaeda in a week using waterboarding and any other spanish inquisition era interrogation practices we deem effective then we get his 200k, but if we can't break him with thumb screws and the rack then he gets our money.
dffykvn 1 year ago
I think Dick Cheney and George Bush and Sean Hannity should try it out before we totally outlaw it as inhumane and barbaric.
seamoremonster 1 year ago
@dwc19631963 or the removal of hands, eyes, legs, arms, etc.. don't even get me started on female circumcision at age 7....
romeosevendelta 1 year ago
Why is this any more horrendous to watch than a girl being tied down or held down and continuously gang raped? If our soldiers need to do something this drastic to secure our safety against a people that wants us all dead because of our religion...then I say go for it !!!!!!!!!!!
glgale92 1 year ago
@dwc19631963 Well great, lets just start beheading people too without trials. We have something in the United States that makes us a free republic, its called the Bill of Rights, due process, the Constitution.
If you think that allowing the government to torture people will just be used for "terrorists" youre dead wrong. Government abuses every power it is given. Dont be surprised when youre being water boarded for speaking out against something you dont like.
labartic 1 year ago
@Nada1962 Scenario: There's a terrorist that has placed a bomb in heavily populated area the only way to find out is torture are you going to allow all those people to die just to appear humane? Right Answer: No in this world you do what is necessary, not what you like and I find torture disgusting and inhumane but in some instances necessary the only ones who don't are idealists who have no idea of the harshness of the real world because of their sheltered lives.
USAForLife2057 1 year ago
@USAForLife2057 You know what the die hard martyr would do in a ticking time bomb bullshit 24 situation, he'd lie lie lie lie and lie until the bomb goes off and while the cia is chasing shadows lives would be lost.
Torture causes innocent people to confess to anything, look up the spanish inquisition you uneducated hick...Yes the people the church accused of witchcraft, tortured and who confessed to withccraft were all practitioners of the dark arts...asshat.
dffykvn 1 year ago
@USAForLife2057 That never happens. Your an uneducated fuck tard.
NewGameReleases 1 year ago
@NewGameReleases Happened a few months ago dickwad your the only uneducated fucktard here.
USAForLife2057 1 year ago
@USAForLife2057 what are you doing on youtube I thought nascar was on today!
NewGameReleases 1 year ago
@NewGameReleases I'm from new jersey you presumptuous peace of shit, figures you can't come up with an intelligent retort so you stick to petty insults.
USAForLife2057 1 year ago
@USAForLife2057 I thought it was intellegent. BTW whens the BBQ?
NewGameReleases 1 year ago
@NewGameReleases Right well retards always think their intelligent why don't you tell me when your done screwing your mom.
USAForLife2057 1 year ago
@USAForLife2057 Yep, cuz there aint nothin more intellegent then that there yer mom joke! yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
NewGameReleases 1 year ago
@NewGameReleases Up yours hillbilly
USAForLife2057 1 year ago
problem is if you torture someone they'll just say yes or tell you what they think you want to hear not whats actually true hence all the faulty intelligence issues that plagued the CIA during the Bush presidency when torture tactics were used allot.
Python207 1 year ago
Waterboarding isnt torture if you ask me and to be honest if there were a situation where extracting information meant preventing a terrorist attack then I would be all for doing whatever is required. I say get Kieffer Sutherland in the room and lets get some answers lol.
klm5986 1 year ago
@klm5986 Get waterboarded, then tell us it's not torture.
TheBiomuse 1 year ago
@TheBiomuse Become the victim of a terrorist attack, then tell us you dont approve.
klm5986 1 year ago
@klm5986 Not under my control. You, on the other hand, are free to contact SERE director Malcolm Nance any time and set up your appointment to be waterboarded. He'll require something of you during your session, however: to say that that what he's doing is torture. And you'll say it, because you will say anything he wants you to say, whether you believe it or you don't, to make him stop. That's why torture is known to be an ineffective tool for quality intelligence gathering.
TheBiomuse 1 year ago
The first half of this video is so trippy.
Kersey475 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Just turning a hose on someones face or dumping a gallon of water on their face is not waterboarding... just a rather bad attempt to drown someone. Typically a sheet of saran wrap would be put over the detainees face, and a small hole would be poked in it over his mouth. Water would thereafter be dumped on the wrap and only a small stream will enter the detaines mouth through the hole to simulate drowning. Or so I heard (trying hard to look innocent)
fitte6 1 year ago
Just turning a hose on someones face or dumping a gallon of water on their face is not waterboarding... just a rather bad attempt to drown someone. Typically a sheet of saran wrap would be put over the detainees face, and a small hole would be poked in it over his mouth. Water would thereafter be dumped on the wrap and only a small stream will enter the detaines mouth through the hole to simulate drowning. Or so I heard (trying hard to look innocent)
fitte6 1 year ago
i'd rather waterboard one man if it meant keeping 20 people from getting blasted to shreds from a roadside bomb. Also, even though some guys don't have the info, better safe than sorry. Most of them do,
baz00katooth 1 year ago
@baz00katooth So if you're suspected of being a mass murderer in america, the fbi should go to your home in the middle of the night, gun down your family, drag you out of bed and into their black van with a hood over your head, take you to a black site torture facility and torture you until you tell everyone you're a serial killer?
Sure you might be innocent but there is no habeus corpus for suspected murderers, so the fbi can torture away and when you confess you get the death penalty.
dffykvn 1 year ago
@dffykvn give me an example in which the fbi gunned down a us citizen's family and forced them to confess false info through torture on us soil and i might understand your logic.
also if the fbi did come after me for being a mass murderer, chances are their intel is pretty legit.
baz00katooth 1 year ago
@baz00katooth Reagan prosecuted a texas sheriff and 3 deputies who got a 10 year sentance for waterboarding confessions out of criminals.
If it's too cruel and brutal for that monster Reagan it should be to cruel and brutal for us.
At least Reagan wasn't too stupid to realize that confessions under torture aren't legit because the victim will say anything even confess to crimes to stop the torture.
People were sold to us for AQ bounty without evidence so accusers could get rich.
dffykvn 1 year ago
america is a great land but.....with shit like this its becoming one fucked up country!
taker3106 2 years ago
That's it? Doesn't seem any worse then having an older sibling tickle you non stop till you piss yourself.
Mauhadeeb28 2 years ago
maybe the US should try public executions of "proven" (not sure how would prove) terrorists to get them to stop attacking. seemed to work for China with Somali pirates, maybe less anger from other countries/people and probably don't get anything good from terrorists anyway. Or not, can't say I know/care about topic
TearyWrist 2 years ago
@TearyWrist Maybe we shouldn't bother with trials and kill everyone accused of a crime.
You're accused of rape/murder/larceny? We don't need DNA evidence, we just take you over to the torture chamber to make you confess than chop your head off at the executioners block.
dffykvn 1 year ago
Torture is terroism
cakemix2 2 years ago
doesn't look that bad...besides, if he wants it to stop, maybe they should give up the damn information, they're only making it harder on themselves...wait a sec, maybe that's the plan...make waterboarding sound so terrible, that they'll just give up the information at the mention of the word...
TearyWrist 2 years ago
You're assuming that they actually know something. Even if they are terrorists the best thing they could give us us the the name of their cell-leader which is completely useless.
Chronobeanz 2 years ago