Other than inheriting or winning the lottery there are some very clear principals that enable someone to gain wealth. Pay attention in school and STAY there until you graduate. NO children out of wedlock, no marriage before you can afford one! Use REAL birth control do not depend on your partner to do it!! WORK as if YOU were the boss and your salary was coming out of your own pocket! Save 10% of EVERY paycheck BEFORE you spend one dime. Respect yourself-respect others.
@sortathesame None of that will make you wealthy. Owning and growing a business will which is the real problem in the black community and really what needs to be address; not what the government or white people should do for us.
@LaRod72 LaRod, you are correct to a certain point...owning a business can make you wealthy or it can make your wealth disappear. But owning a business will forever remain out of reach if you make poor life choices especially regarding education, having children, savings and work ethics. A business will not fall in your lap, nor will the means to start your own business...the hard work and the good personal decisions must come first. Thanks for your response!
@sortathesame@LaRod72 LaRod, you are correct to a certain point...owning a business can make you wealthy or it can make your wealth disappear. But owning a business will forever remain out of reach if you make poor life choices especially regarding education, having children, savings and work ethics. A business will not fall in your lap, nor will the means to start your own business...the hard work and the good personal decisions must come first. Thanks for your response!
@LaRod72 LaRod, you are correct to a certain point...owning a business can make you wealthy or it can make your wealth disappear. But owning a business will forever remain out of reach if you make poor life choices especially regarding education, having children, savings and work ethics. A business will not fall in your lap, nor will the means to start your own business...the hard work and the good personal decisions must come first. Thanks for your response!
@sortathesame Sorry, the above may post more than once as when I hit post it gave me an error message and said post again. Hopefully it will only show up once.
To grendel1013, which black people haven't invented anything, ppl like Dr. Drew, Latimer, Garret Morgan, McCoy, tell me, which black? Either you're a comedian or the dumbest, ignorant, white idiot on the face of this earth.
@Royisinabox No, if that were true, we wouldn't even be talking about a person's skin color. There is no reason statistics have to match up exactly; and statistics alone are not evidence, they are ways people crunch numbers, not natural law. The individual earns where he ends up, the group he gets put in shouldn't determine anything (and doesn't if government doesn't mess with stuff).
@cyranothe2nd Are you really that stupid? Some get where they are dishonestly, but never because of skin color, and giving people positions based on skin color via AA won't change anything. Furthermore, such dishonesty must be proven, and no one has any specific evidence that jobs are given out on a skin-color basis regularly.
@patsfanczar Really? So white people that inherent homes from their parents while black people were denied loans (before the Fair Housing Act) don't benefit from their skin color? Or how about the huge disparity between average family wealth between whites/blacks, which is 50/1? Or the stats that say that white people with lower scores get into colleges based on the alumni status of their parents, while blacks don't? Srsly, I don't see how you can deny this. Maybe you just don't want to see.
@cyranothe2nd Sounds to me like you just compared rich man vs. poor man and made 2 seriously insulting stereotypes and provided no evidence at all. After all, there are lies, there are damn lies, and then there are statistics. Fact is no statistic I have been shown objectively proves beyond a doubt that racism is still widespread in job selection. Furthermore, it isn't even government's job to tell private industry who it has to hire/ educate.
@cyranothe2nd White people inherit homes from their parents! DANG! My parents missed that completely! I was CHEATED!
The disparity between the average white family and black family average out very close when the black family is a two parent home. Sadly, 72% of black children are born into single parent homes. Welfare is NOT a good way to develop wealth! More white women than black are on welfare but only because population black women are only 7% of the total population.
I believe in what is called " tough love". Take away all the Blacks legs up due to the fact that they don't use any of them in a way they were designed for, they abuse it at the cost of tax payers and hard working individuals. Take all the " Gibs ma dats" and let them hang, and maybe when the hand outs are no longer there MAYBE they will get the point, adapt or die. Give them 100% equality, and if they can't cut it tough shit.
I have no sympathy for Blacks. All races in Human History has been enslaved, discriminated, etc and they all seem to pull ahead except for Blacks. They bitch and whine about how unfair the system is and yet they do not take any incentive to improve their way of life. Blacks have more legs up than any other race in Human history and yet they still screw things up. As for Black families that lack the "true" family structure that is their own fault.
@Royisinabox You can't argue facts. U.S Blacks average I.Q is 80, Whites is 95. Why do you think Blacks score much lower than any other race? It is also well known that Blacks that use the "Race" card to get into Ivy league Colleges are 99% likely to drop out. And our education system does not help the matter, they are so afraid of crossing that race barrier that they don't teach them basic skills so they can at least have a sporting chance in the real world. It's ASK not AX.
@grendel1013 come on now man... first off, if those statistics are true, you need to truly empathize with some of these black folks. I'm sure about 90% of white parents treat and raise there kids with authoritative values, showing them the ways and how to become successful, just as their parents had done to them. In the African American community, there is a huge lack of family, and the values they provide to life and success. If more black families were united, things would be different
@iLiveforthedanks Oh btw they are BLACK not African American. Unless they immigrated here from Africa they are Black. It would be like calling myself an Italian American because my grandfather immigrated here from Italy. Stop trying to make Blacks feel good about themselves when it is not PC. Like bastardizing History by saying Blacks contributed to society through inventions, when in fact they have not invented a dam thing worth noting.
George Alcorn - Nathaniel Alexander - Virgie Ammons
B
Benjamin Banneker - Janet Emerson Bashen - Patricia Bath - Andrew Jackson Beard - Miriam E. Benjamin - Edmond Berger - Henry Blair - Bessie Blount - Sarah Boone - Otis Boykin - Charles Brooks - Phil Brooks - Henry Brown - Marie Brown - Robert Bryant - John Albert Burr
C
George Washington Carver - George Carruthers - Benjamin S. Carson That's just what I can post here. Try looking things up, ass.
@Royisinabox Facts speak truth and are not biased. This " White guilt" that the LIbtards are force feeding down every single White persons throat has to go. We gave Blacks equality, and yet they can't cut it so YT has to lower standards so Blacks can get a leg up. And still with all the leg ups YT gives them they still manage to fuck it up, so what does that tell you? Blacks will always bitch about inequality until YT gives them everything on a silver platter for free.
@Royisinabox Bullshit. Giving Blacks more "Gibs me dats" does not raise them to higher levels. It is a known FACT That Blacks have been given jobs that they are not qualified for. It is a known FACT that Public and Private agencies have lowered their standards to accommodate Blacks. It is a known FACT that Colleges have lowered their standards so Blacks can have access. FACT Blacks have lower I.Qs than any other race and everyone has to accommodate that fact. Want equality, pass the dam test.
@Royisinabox There is no such thing as racism. Racism is racism.
"People of color receive less opportnity"
You are making nothing more than an assumption. Do you have evidence that it (meaning your statistic) is because of reduced opportunity? Fact is, you can't. Nobody except the extremely radical actually care what COLOR A PERSON'S SKIN IS (there really is no separate "race") when they are looking to hire an effective employee.
@Royisinabox "White people have and make more money per capita than people of color." This is based on what? And why are we making the distinction only based on the color of skin a person happened to be born with? You aren't even looking at qualifacations or any other possible causes. Your research is incredible (if you did much at all) because you do not dig deep enough.
If you own a computer, which i'm assuming you do, the materials i encourage you to read won't cost you anything. I've told you my opinion many times: AA is necessary b/c w/out it "minorities" would not be admitted into colleges at an acceptable %. I tried telling you that this has been proven by the "Shape of the River" but you refuse to read it. I suggested you read the Supreme Court case on AA and you refuse to count it as germane. How can this discussion continue when ur blissfully ignorant?
However one should consider if there are others in the country who have not historically benefited from AA and because of more recent circumstances, have been discriminated against: eg. Muslims, people from the Middle East etc. Because using AA would mean more exposure for them and therefore alleviating much of the ignorance in the U.S about the faith/people. There is no shortage of documents that show discrimination against people of a darker complexion, more recently...
There is a fundamental error in the way the questions herein are answered. The panelists are all debating whether there should be a moratorium on affirmative action to those who have historically benefited from the process. This debate would hold much water if that was the question.
@patsfanczar Affirmative Action has never been about letting unqualified minorities take jobs from overqualified whites, but rather to have guidelines which allows institutions to make sure they are educating a diverse student body for a more diverse world. This tactic breaks down stereotypes and benefits everyone at the institution. Affirm. Act. is necessary because institutions have proved that without it non-whites would be severely under-represented. There is nothing fairer than this.
@Talmadge33 Underrepresented? Are we talking about a congress now? Affirmative action is racist, and is unconstitutional for the government to engage in. Now you tell me, why does a black man or a mexican, or any other person of any other minority need this extra boost? Are you trying to say that simply having white skin can make a man superior at nearly everything? If this is so, I would say you must be a racist.
@patsfanczar i'm talking about being underrepresented at an institution. Affirmative Act is not racist and it is not unconstitutional according to the Supreme Court. Read the 2003 Michigan Law School ruling and you'll see why. It is an opportunity for qualified minorities to attain jobs or be accepted into schools of higher education. Without Affirm Act the amount of minorities in the workforce and school wouldn't be nearly as high as it is. We need more Affirm Act policies. How is it racist?
@Talmadge33 Simply put, it's racist because it involves looking at people's races. Ideally, the most qualified people should be accepted to the jobs and schools, regardless of skin color. The color-blind approach is the ONLY morally correct path.
I'm confused as to why you believe we need more people of various skin colors in jobs/schools... why aren't you equally concerned with heights, weights, shoe sizes, eye colors, and hair colors? Why is skin color more important?
@lacusftw Considering one's race isn't racist; ostracizing people based on their race is racist. AA makes sure that all qualified people of different racial backgrounds (including whites) have an equal chance of employment and representation in the workforce. It's not so much that you are confused as it is your unwillingness to truly think about this issue. Being "color-blind" on the surface seems admirable, but in a country that is notorious for racism considering race is necessary.
@Talmadge33 How can you possibly believe that AA provides everyone with an "equal" chance? If any racial group is given any amount of preference whatsoever, the chances aren't equal. As I previously said, ONLY color blindness will provide "equal" chances for all races. There's no reason someone's skin color should grant them an unfair boost
@lacusftw You're talking about AA as if it is denying applicants a spot in school or the workforce, when in actuality AA makes sure that no one racial group is being ostracized or effectually "shut out". I'm not sure how to make my case any clearer. Also, is your opposition to AA based on principle of its consideration of race or on its being racist in practice?
@Talmadge33 Race is an institution now? I don't know about you, but I thought the best idea to fighting racism was to be "colorblind" (which I would proudly say I am). Furthermore, affirmative action by the government is unconstitutional (I don't care what a bunch of old men with a political agenda say). There are amendments which have been put in place which ban racism (notably the 14th).
@Talmadge33 Furthermore, i don't see how you don't understand that discriminating against a person by the color of his skin is racist. I believe the Civil Rights Champion MLK dreamed of people NOT being judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. Affirmative action is not needed to "help" minorities. In this country, we get jobs and admission to colleges based upon what we have done ourselves: Are minorities inept, then?
@patsfanczar No, i don't think that minorities are inept. I also don't think that AA judges people by the color of their skin. What AA does is suggest a kind of framework that makes sure a plurality of minorities are accepted into institutions of higher education and the workforce. I don't see how AA discriminates against anybody, perhaps you could explain how discrimination plays a part in an AA policy. MLK's philosophy has never been a part of the US school system criteria for acceptance.
@Talmadge33 You are still judging people by the color of their skin and saying that minorities are inept because you insist that someone of a certain skin color should get admitted to a college or given a job, as if they are not good enough to earn it themselves.
AA is discrimination because a man with white skin is denied a college application to a less qualified person of another skin color (and yes, use of AA means that the individual in question would be less qualified) .
@patsfanczar No one is being denied anything because of an AA policy. People get denied admittance into college and don't get hired for a particular job for a variety of reasons. If AA did what you think it does, then there would be very few white skinned college freshmen in America, however that does not seem to be the case. If and when white skinned people become the minority in America they will be protected from discrimination by the AA policy.
@Talmadge33 By what you are saying in this debate, it would appear you have no clue yourself what AA does. In AA, two people (one white, one a "minority" skinned person) who have similar criteria for entrance, even with the white person having slightly better criteria, the white person is denied. This says two things: you are being biased against a white person, and your argument is based upon the fact that minorities aren't good enough to enter college on their own.
@patsfanczar My asking you what race u were was a joke. My bad if u got offended; just try to relax. But a more serious question is how old are you? I only ask becuz i'm 20 and i'd feel bad if all this time i was debating a kid who isn't sure what he/she is talking about. I'm not trying to insinuate that you don't know what ur talking about, but u seem to be ignorant to a few things and i'm not sure u understand what AA really is. it's absolutely not like institutions in 1960s south.
@Talmadge33 20, lol. You don't seem to understand the connections between AA and the pre-civil rights south (not 1960's, it was that way from about 1620 to 1960). You yourself have yet to cite anything that undeniably proves racism is necessary in giving people jobs.
Yes, there are white people who get into community colleges with less than a 3.0, and there are minorities that get denied entrance into prestigious colleges with more than a 3.0, not sure what your point is.
@Talmadge33 Furthermore, I'm not sure what you mean by "MLK's philosophy has never been a part of the US school system criteria for acceptance," because I am talking civil rights here, which you would be massively stupid to say he did nothing for, and also massively stupid to say it didn't affect schools or job acceptance.
@patsfanczar I should have said school admittance instead of "acceptance". MLK has absolutely contributed to social justice and peace. But as far as the integration of schools and this AA policy, MLK's philosophy is not apart of the criteria. Perhaps the Civil Rights Movement as a whole played some part, but not MLK. I can definitely see where you are confused. you're better off doing ur on research than taking my word for why schools were integrated.
@patsfanczar Also, there's no need to insinuate that i am massively stupid. I think you need to do more research on AA and see how and why it is being implemented by schools and in the workforce. You seem confused of how the policy works. What makes you think that white people r being discriminated against? What studies support that claim? Again, i have never said minorities are inept; i have a hard enough time calling minorities, minorities. By the way, are you white?... lol Joking, joking :)
@Talmadge33 I'm not insinuating that you are massively stupid unless you believe that Dr.King did nothing to further racial EQUALITY which affected SCHOOLS greatly.
You comment on whether I am white or not is irrelevant, but it further indicates your racist attitude.
You need to do some research yourself on what exactly is the definition of race and the definition of discrimination, then put those together and you may hopefully understand the simple concepts I am telling you. AA is based on nothing but race, and is basically the same exact thing that happened in the south to blacks since before the 60's. I have to ask why you feel you need unscientific studies for everything. Change your gear and use real logic, not empty studies.
@patsfanczar I'm not a huge fan of unscientific facts, but there have been in depth studies on the merits of AA and that the policy is necessary. Not all minorities who apply to schools get in; and ur example seems to imply that unqualified minorities get in via AA and overqualified whites don't get in becuz of it. So i'll ask u, do white (non minority) ppl get into schools with less than a 3.0gpa and are there minorities who don't get accepted into schools with a 3.0gpa?
@patsfanczar sometimes ppl just don't get into school, racism and discrimination are not factors. AA makes sure that campuses racially reflect the applicants and population of America. Again, no one is being discriminated against. Ur example is valid, i'm sure that does happen, but how many applicants of the same background get in with a lower gpa. Please, please read a book on the subject. What is ur problem with AA, kid?
What I am trying to ask you is would you give me specific examples where AA is needed because someone was denied entrance to a college just because his or her skin was black? Maybe we should leave of the "ethnicity" field on the college applications?
As far as "What is ur problem with AA, kid" I would believe you would have to be bloody stupid not to understand this already. Maybe you need to stop telling me I'm stupid, wake up, and read what my arguments are.
@patsfanczar I'm not trying to call you stupid, kid. And i'm trying very hard to see where you are coming from. Simply put, AA is needed so that school campuses and classrooms reflect the diversity of their world. I suppose a similar argument is what i would use for AA in the workforce. My point is that ppl get into college and don't get into college regardless of their race.
@Talmadge33 What you are saying is that you value a black student sitting right next to a white student so specifically that you would put your philosophical BS in front of hard work and a good education. This is what troubles me. You are stupidly pretending that AA doesn't affect anything, while it seems to have this magical effect of diversifying schools (which is totally unnecessary). Deserving people do get denied jobs and schooling based on race, otherwise AA wouldn't exist...
@patsfanczar The problem is that the majority of the US used to be white, and therefore without even trying to schools get campuses that are majority white. But, as a institution of higher learning in a diverse country, a school must educate all people from every race and socieo-economic class. This is where AA comes n2 play, that's why schools use AA. Now, what exactly is troubling to you about this policy? Because not every white male who applies to a college gets in? C'mon, get real, kid
@Talmadge33 Furthermore, you are doing nothing but stereotyping and being just about as racist as it gets while still being able to pretend you aren't. You are looking at demographics and insisting that the ratios of black:white:whatever in schools should match exactly what they are in the real world, which does not consider the individual people who worked their asses off to get where they are. To go on further, AA is not needed to help social class, that is what an earned scholarship is for.
@Talmadge33 Now you've cited the example of "when white people become the minority, AA will help them, too." This is not pleasing, because it once again puts people who have earned their way into college at a serious disadvantage. The way I see it, getting an education is an individual effort, not one based off of what color your skin is.
And seriously, read my posts and quit calling me stupid (i take "kid" as "stupid". Completely unnecessary).
@patsfanczar I don't mean to call you stupid, kid, but ur thoughts 2 me seem uninformed & therefore childish. U are just not grasping what AA is for or how it works. I'm sorry that you do not currently possess the ability to see the other side. This is sad because you are also against AA for some ideological post racial US that has been proven to not exist. We have an obligation to educate all types of qualified ppl. You just don't seem to understand this. I feel sorry 4 u kid. Grow Up
@Talmadge33 My thoughts are uninformed then? I see that you were outright lying saying you did not mean to call me stupid, Pinocchio. How about you enlighten me as to what is uninformed in what I am saying. I am using logic, not bullshit from some random website. I don't even see how it is possible to be making uninformed comments when I am running logic circles around you. I am well aware of how AA works, the one who doesn't understand and is making under-informed comments appears to be you.
@Talmadge33 I am not pretending that America is beyond racism (clearly, because we are still using race for college admittance). What I'm trying to do is make it that way, and what you are trying to do is keep America from the dream of all those who fought so hard for EQUAL civil rights. "We have an obligation to educate all types of qualified ppl" which is what AA doesn't do. AA gives people jobs and college for skin color, not qualification.
I feel sorry for you (not really, but if it makes you feel better) that I have dizzied you with logic to the point that you have to make weak character attacks like this one. I see you side's point, and I find absolutely no reason in it: You have given me no reason why a man should be denied a decent college education or a decent job because his skin isn't of the right color, you have only insisted (with emptiness) "it must be so."
@patsfanczar Relax kid; you don't have to reply 3xs. i think u are misinformed because the AA policy does not restrict people from being accepted into school or accept unqualified people into school. I think u are confused and don't understand that just because people don't get accepted into college doesn't mean that AA had a part to play. That has never been a part of the policy. I don't think that its a personal attack to say that ur opinion is based on falsehoods. U understand that, kid?
@Talmadge33 I wouldn't have to make 3 posts if it wasn't for the # characters filter in yt.
You need to get to understanding logic, kid. People do get denied education based on nothing but AA, I don't care what liberal, twisted book you seem to be trying to get me to read. Logically, if people weren't accepted or denied only on the basis of race, AA wouldn't boost anyone, and thus there would be no point in this debate because AA would just be a hollow word that doesn't help or hurt anyone.
@patsfanczar Just take it easy kid. I resent being called a liberal, i'm more of a socialist politically. The "liberal, twisted book" i suggested you should read earlier were the case concerning AA and the Univ of Michigan and "The Shape of the River" authored by William Bowen and Derek Bok, the former Presidents of Princeton and Harvard Univ. Their study proved that AA was necessary and important. Hopefully u will read 1 of these b4 replying, kid. But somehow, kid, i don't think u will :)
@Talmadge33 LOL, socialist is liberal. I have no concern over some book you must be getting paid to advertise, but the fact is the president of Princeton or Harvard University doesn't mean jack to me when it comes to studies, especially since you can provide no evidence in a debate as to WHY Affirmative Action is necessary, instead telling me to read the same book which has corrupted your mind and drained it of logic and ethics.
@patsfanczar Once again kid you have proven your childishness. You could read the studies of the 2 former Presidents of Princeton and Harvard which proves the need for AA, yet you choose not to because its "illogical". You could read the Supreme Court case concerning AA and the Univ of Michigan, but you choose not to because it "corrupted my mind". If you don't want to read material that's germane to the topic at hand it is pointless to debate with you. Please grow up. Happy holidays, kid.
@Talmadge33 I like the way that just because I disagree with you, you decide to drop name attacks and call me childish, maybe it reflects your own character. I chose not to read these because they are a waste of time and money, and provide no better insight into the issue than what I already have. All it is is the opinion of a few individuals which only you seem to hold significant. The fact is that the debate over AA is a logical and ethical one, not one that needs studies done about it.
@Talmadge33 And I still have yet to hear in your words exactly why Affirmative Action is so necessary. The point in citing sources, after all, is to quote them, not to tell your opponent in a debate to find your information for you.
@patsfanczar On youbutts? *I* link people to sources so they will read them. If they're too lazy to do that and instead wish for me to quote little tidbits, then that let's me know that they are not interested in actually learning about it and I don't even bother discussing it with them anymore.
@patsfanczar (Con't) If you truly wish to understand the importance of AA then I can recommend some excellent books and essays, but they are heavy on history because, well, you can't understand it without learning the history and past policies and outcomes.
...Or do you honestly expect to understand the entirety of the issue from a quote that can be posted in one or a few youtube comments?
@OmorosePanya Tell me, what facts do you have? My point is heavily laden with logic, while you're whole side talks about essays which express little more than the opinion of somebody who got that opinion published to make money off of chums who would buy it. The fact is, you two need to cut the "there's this essay I'm not going to name which you should read" and actually cite facts and logic if you wish to sway me (or at least not look stupid).
@patsfanczar I was unaware that events in history---particularly well-documented exclusionary policies and their results---were opinions. Silly me!
Direct quote anything that implies that I did not plan to give you those things.
Which facts and statistics? Those about wealth and income disparities? The college enrollment rate of each race? The poverty rates of each race? The criminality of each race? Racial profiling?
@OmorosePanya You don't understand how this works, do you? Sourcing you to something that states that x percentage of y race are z will NOT explain to you why affirmative action is necessary, which is what you asked. That said, tell me which statistics you want and I will find them for you.
It's unfortunate if you're asking for these things because you're too goddamned lazy to read a book, but the reality is that, if you wish to understand, that's what you're going to have to do. Research. Learn. For numerous hours. You're going to have to understand Johnson's intent. You're going to have to understand the policies that put us in this mess in the first place. You need a foundation upon which to analyze the statistics you desire. Without it, how do you expect to understand?
@OmorosePanya Quote the exact words I typed which were asking for statistics. It would appear to me that nobody who insists upon persisting with racist policies in schools has the patience to read my comments or the brain to understand it.
@patsfanczar You asked me what facts I have, and you also asked the other person. Which nonstatistical (or nonmathematical or nonscientific in nature) facts do you desire that explain why affirmative action is necessary? Furthermore, you appear to conclude that essays and books DON'T or CAN'T have facts.
@OmorosePanya I have never found books or essays to have very reliable facts: They tout opinions and generally little else. I want raw facts: How about you tell me exactly what brings your so claimed need for affirmative action in selection of college and job applications? I want yo hear undeniable facts that you seem to be claiming to have that people are racist pro-whites in selecting those, that there would be a need to balance against that with more racism, and bring in real logic.
@patsfanczar Sorry for the slow reply. I don't generally log into youtube so I always forget about my discussions with people.
Perhaps you just don't know how to find the better, more reliable ones?
I didn't say that. Pay attention.
I'm confused as to what you want me to find. Nothing with an explanation, apparently, because you don't know how to find reliable sources so you assume they're all bad. Am I just linking you to a fact sheet?
@patsfanczar Your qualifications are puzzling to me. I don't understand how you expect to learn about this from a fact sheet. Is it just something that lists policies? I still think all of this is because you don't want to actually learn about the US history relevant to this, which is critical to understanding this as a whole.
Can we start with what affirmative action is? I have a feeling that you really don't know.
@OmorosePanya What, right now, warrants such racist policies as affirmative action? Its a pretty simple question, or maybe your mind is just to small to understand it. My major issue is that you left-wingers can't seem to drop the concept of skin color and realize that stereotyping is not how you run an economy right.
@patsfanczar So, in conclusion, I will provide you with a much needed HISTORY lesson and then SUPPLEMENT you with statistics. That's right---they only SUPPORT the point; they don't function AS the point. You apparently don't understand the function of statistics, which makes me wonder why you request them in the first place. It's quite basic that they don't explain CONCEPTS, which is what AA is. They don't explain WHY, which is what you asked. Math and science explain HOW, not WHY.
I know how to eradicate racism: We become a theocracy and there is no more separation between Church and State. We take to heart what our founding fathers said about God. If Christianity was what our theocracy was based on, racism would slowly dissolve.
I could give you my thoughts on the economy, but that would primarily support the notion of a level playing-field.
@GodChristLord I don't think I can agree that a theocracy would help end racism. Usually theocracies are heavily racist. The middle east is a good example. The KKK is very much all about some Jesus. The bible is used quite often to justify bigotry of all types. What about christianity would trigger the end of racism?
@GodChristLord I disagree with you there as well. I'm pretty well read on it in fact. Perhaps you could explain why your interpretation is correct and all the others are not? Matthew 27:25 has been used for a long time to justify the persecution of Jews. The book of John is pretty harsh on Jews as well. Both the old testament and the new testament are supportive of slavery.
Leviticus 19:20-22 Ephesians 6:5-9 There are a large amount of others as well.
@GodChristLord If we take to heart what our founding fathers said about god we would have to take in The Treaty of Tripoli. It's not very supportive of the idea that we are a religious nation much less a christian one.
You do not think we are a Christian nation, with Jesus Christ at the very fiber in most of what Americans are? Well if not in 2010, maybe in 1985 when I was in school.
@GodChristLord Our laws are set up secular. God does not play a part in it. The Treaty of Tripoli states quite clearly that were are not a christian nation. I was raised Presbyterian. I have Scandinavian heritage.
I have never heard of the Treaty of Tripoli used for the purposes you have used it. Instead of taking up this comments section on this person's upload if you like to carry on we could do it on our channels (Personal Messages).
@GodChristLord I prefer to do my debating in the open. Convincing the person you are debating with is next to impossible. Convincing people that might read it is not. I would have very little use of taking the debate away from here. I appreciate your dedication to the subject and the respectful way which you have handled yourself. If you would like to continue I would rather stay here.
@benympls Why would I think that? This comes from a conversation that got totally of course. padaw. claimed that since I was Caucasian that I was privileged, and so I contended that if that were true then those that benefit from Affirmative Action, minorities, are lazy.
@GodChristLord Affirmative Action is an economic issue and you said your economic stances support the level playing field. Affirmative Action is the mechanism for leveling the field. There is a disconnect in your logic that I am confused by.
Affirmative action is absolutely wrong. All it does is further enforce the belief that minorities are somehow inferior and require special consideration to be successful in this country. How can I phrase this so that it makes sense? I know... AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IS RACIST!
Obamas mediocre grades at Occidental College did not merit admission into Colombia, where his mediocre grades should have precluded admittance to Harvard Law School, where he was artificially thrust to the lead the Harvard Law Review, where he became the first leader NOT to write editorial pieces. Obama was given such privileges without proven merit.
opponents to affirmative action claim that it gives people of color an unfair advantage, but whites have had unfair advantage directly from our government throughout our entire history. so apparently, when our government attempts to equalize that imbalance, we are apparently giving an unfair advantage. Minus the fact that the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women, but besides that fact, it's totally anti-white, right?
@kurozaki45 I disagree. Black kids from rich families get low scores. Non-emigrating sub-saharian africans have low IQs. Maybe we should not dismiss prof. Watson's opinions so quickly ("all our social policies are based on the fact that their [Africans'] intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really."). Sure, it's unpleasant. As is the fact that the sun will some day scorch the earth.
"False" isn't a logical equivalent of "unpleasant".
Yes, I think it is high time that we now give up on blacks. Someone should say once and fo all that blacks are really inferior to other races in every way, and that there is really no hope for them. They are only good as slaves, nothing more. I will never sign up for a black doctor or dentist, nor will enroll in a class taught by a black teacher.
Yes, I think it is high time that we now give up on blacks. Someone should say once and fo all that blacks are really inferior to other races in every way, and that there is really no hope for them. They are only good as slaves, nothing more. I will never sign up for a black doctor or dentist, nor will enroll in a class taught by a black teacher.
@DaveFoster143Records Have you ever heard about "White privilege", or taken and anthropology class? If not, you should read up on that. 'Race' is a social construct.
@1029blue No, it was supposed to be impersonal (I'm no native English speaker as you might have guessed). Read: "how can a "social construct" make a race jump higher on average than some other race? ".
@ltrizzle84 Exactly. It can't. Actually, "race does not exist" arguments are purely ideological, like the old stupid "blacks have no soul". They try to force to give up the term "race" to describe largely inbred groups who share similar totally real and obvious characteristics, like jumping higher on average, having light skin, being more prone to some diseases, higher IQ. They don't say "these traits don't exist", they say "don't use the word race to describe them". It's a linguistic dispute.
@ltrizzle84 be careful, you might convince some people you're genetically unable to make a point without insulting! In addition, your government must be a very powerful one to make you jump a couple of feet higher than a poor European like me ... the almighty power of discrimination, what the hell might DNA have to do with it, right? It's all skin deep, right? (WTF?!) My, my, say it 100 times over and you end up believing it.
the needs of the many,outweigh those of the few.We are the only mammals on the face of the Earth that does not pratice "selective" breeding.And our species & our enviroment will end up paying the ultimate price for this shortsightedness.We are nothing more than parasites on Earth,we have earned our fate......sad.
Question: Should a Caucasian individual whose family or ancestry was not in the USA until after 1865 (when slavery ended) be penalized by Affirmative Action when he or she applies for a job, more specifically a public-sector job?
PLEASE give me your thoughts and rationale only if you have completed college study to some degree in the US.
Still want some input on Affirmative Action ? The answer is no and further more the time of immigration by Anglo-Americans has nothing to do with this issue in the first place. There are some simple facts that need to be understood by the masses that are politically incorrect to discuss. This however does not change the fact that they are indeed fact. In sum humans are opportunists and affirmative action like many other things leads to opportunism.
@GodChristLord of course. anyone who is white is benefiting from white privilege if their family came here in the 1600s or if they came here last week. AA isn't a penalization for being white, its to help those who AREN'T white with the crap that they have to deal with day in and day out.
@GodChristLord i did read...the whole point of AA is to give brown people at least a chance at equality. there is no way you can completely eradicate the systemic problems our society has. you can't erase the fact that white people from the moment they are born (no matter what their familial history is) are already ahead of the game. this isn't about penalizing, its about giving black people a chance they wouldn't otherwise have because of the culture we live in.
My ancestry had no white privileged because they got here shortly AFTER slavery ended. AA came about to make up for slavery. NONE OF MY FAMILY WAS IN THE
U S A TO TAKE PART IN SLAVERY. They were in Europe.
Should we penalize Russians or blacks or all bald males or all lesbians for the death and crucifixion of Christ when it was the Romans back then who were accountable.
@GodChristLord I think the point is that you are benefiting from white privilege if you are white in America. You. Not your ancestors. When you drive down the street and aren't pulled over for driving while black, you have just benefited. Try watching Tim Wise's Pathology of White Privilege. He covers every argument you've come up with and everyone I've heard. Even if you don't agree with him at the end you can at least see where the other side comes from a little better.
I am not privileged. I am a common/ordinary man. AA not profiling. If I benefit from some sort of white privilege then a black person hurts himself from laziness.
@GodChristLord I will admit I'm making the assumption that you are white given that you are concerned that you are being blamed for slavery. If that's not so then you need to tell me. I say again but with more precision, statistically speaking you are far less likely to be pulled over as a white male. This is a benefit. If you don't agree or want more supporting evidence I can provide it. However it would be easier to watch the video I recommended.
Paco, this is an AA upload and comment section. Do you have anything to say in regard to those two subjects? Otherwise, I am out. 'AA upload and comment section.'
@GodChristLord The white privilege has been your affirmative action for as long as you have been in America. It is penalizing minorities. If you could eradicate racism amongst whites then we would not need Affirmative Action. It's not like racism is gone and it won't self regulate out of existence. You know Tim Wise is in part 3 of this debate. I will say that if you have a better mechanism to offset white privilege than affirmative action I'd like to hear it.
White privilege remains today. For example in one study a university submitted identical job applications and resumes to a variety of employment sectors and job levels. All they changed were one set was given names like Bob Smith (white names) the other set were given black sounding names like Tyrone Greene
Even with identical applications, identical qualifications the white names got significantly more call-backs
@LeopardFrogPilboxhat If so, then black laziness remains today. I can give you a case if we examine Section 8 and food stamp applicants. I wonder too, what race has the highest percentage of parents both present during their child's life?
For the record,and before some fanatic misconstrues my point and wants debate...I am comfortable with any progressive person(not in the political sense but as in intelligent,rationale and altruistic)regardless of race.
I do not believe those traits are even distributed among races.Unlike actual racist people I allow for exceptions for individuals.
If immigration policy imposed better screening(for progressive traits)much of the ethnic tensions we have now would diminish IMO.
Inferior is a relative term.People would be speaking more in terms of specialization if they knew any better though(which they don't).
They don't speak of specialization because it doesn't square with leftist ideologies of equality.
It is here that we can see anti-science parallels between religious fanaticism and leftist ideology.The collectivist mind(in it's generic sense)is exposed for it's weakness as it manifests in both religion and ideology.
Why not? White people have generalized non-whites, for centuries, in order to establish and perpetuate sickening propaganda that further divides people.
Let's extend your logic(I know it's irrational emoting but let's pretend shall we?).
Since blacks,taken as a whole, have perpetrated grossly higher rate of interracial rape that it's ok for non blacks to treat *all* blacks as a block?We should disregard the individual?
I'm done with you jackass.You have nothing but rudderless feelings.
agriculturalism,evolutionary specialization,G,K vs R,DRD4,MAOA 7R,bell curves,Lewontin's Fallacy,etc etc...
Politicians nor the public speak with such terms because they live in the dark.Even worse they don't understand that they are in the dark and proceed as if they are somehow wise.
Hence the commentary here of the chatting classes.
Speaking as a black man I'd have to say that I'm against affirmative action. However, affirmative action is no different from white privilege. The only distinction is that one policy benefits whites and the other benefits non-whites. You may hear a person say, "Well, you only got the job because you're black." Indeed, there may be some truth in that statement but that doesn't take away from the centuries that we were denied an opportunity for the same reason. This is just food for thought.
Just one thing i like to point out, notice the amount of negative feed back on people who agree with tim wise is almost identical, the numbers are all the same..is like the racist patrol got a distress call fromt its fellow brothers to come spew lies and spam the lines, this is something you will notice on almost anything relating to minorities rights or complains, its easy to see a pattern here, racism is over?, jus type black or mexican on youtube then read the commens then tell me is over.
Hexsal handsdown to you my friend your clearly right... Race is something we notice everyday in this country...In my opinion Affiramtive Action is the least the Govt could give back to the mniorties in this country and how they treated in the past... Lets face it the White man got a head start in this country since 1776!! we minorties had no rights or anything in our favor at all... until the 1960s Civil Rights movement...we minorities in general were bacisly living in the shadows of the white
I can supply studies,evidence that lays it all out. Blacks and whites have different collective sensibilities,behavior trends and abilities,the roots are fundamentally genetic.
..that pluralism in FACT leads to greater mistrust and less happiness in communities,to more hostility between people.
There are cold facts to support that which should be obvious to anybody.
That one needs to point out the non sequitur,the problem created by AA highlights the futility of debating such rubes.
You can supply studies, evidence that lays it all out?
I guess that is fascinating to someone here but proving PLURALISM "leads to greater mistrust and less happiness in communities ..." is a sloppy attempt at deflection. Can you actually articulate an argument against AA ? Your posts indicate your idea Utopia will include a bloody war along ethnic lines. Then will you support AA for those who lose? What aspects of multiculturalism will slide in bloody chaos? Do you mean Rock'n'roll?
So, technically this makes Asians better than whites. They do far better than you in academics, they commit less crime(or at least they don't get caught), on average their household makes more money than a white person. What are you saying?
'Affirmative Action' is Anti-white discrimination. Regardless of your motivation being for it's continuance is to be Anti-white.
willyrobinson 1 month ago
@willyrobinson slavery was anti black so i guess we're even.
fuckronaldreagan 2 days ago
@fuckronaldreagan - equal in slavery while living under the guise of liberty?
willyrobinson 2 days ago
Other than inheriting or winning the lottery there are some very clear principals that enable someone to gain wealth. Pay attention in school and STAY there until you graduate. NO children out of wedlock, no marriage before you can afford one! Use REAL birth control do not depend on your partner to do it!! WORK as if YOU were the boss and your salary was coming out of your own pocket! Save 10% of EVERY paycheck BEFORE you spend one dime. Respect yourself-respect others.
sortathesame 7 months ago 4
@sortathesame None of that will make you wealthy. Owning and growing a business will which is the real problem in the black community and really what needs to be address; not what the government or white people should do for us.
LaRod72 4 months ago in playlist Affirmative Action Debate
@LaRod72 LaRod, you are correct to a certain point...owning a business can make you wealthy or it can make your wealth disappear. But owning a business will forever remain out of reach if you make poor life choices especially regarding education, having children, savings and work ethics. A business will not fall in your lap, nor will the means to start your own business...the hard work and the good personal decisions must come first. Thanks for your response!
sortathesame 4 months ago
@sortathesame @LaRod72 LaRod, you are correct to a certain point...owning a business can make you wealthy or it can make your wealth disappear. But owning a business will forever remain out of reach if you make poor life choices especially regarding education, having children, savings and work ethics. A business will not fall in your lap, nor will the means to start your own business...the hard work and the good personal decisions must come first. Thanks for your response!
sortathesame 4 months ago
@LaRod72 LaRod, you are correct to a certain point...owning a business can make you wealthy or it can make your wealth disappear. But owning a business will forever remain out of reach if you make poor life choices especially regarding education, having children, savings and work ethics. A business will not fall in your lap, nor will the means to start your own business...the hard work and the good personal decisions must come first. Thanks for your response!
sortathesame 4 months ago
@sortathesame Sorry, the above may post more than once as when I hit post it gave me an error message and said post again. Hopefully it will only show up once.
sortathesame 4 months ago
@sortathesame good advice
Sivels 2 months ago
Comment removed
strauss12345 7 months ago
All been debunked, google " Black invention myths". So you can just go fuck yourself retard.
grendel1013 8 months ago 2
To grendel1013, which black people haven't invented anything, ppl like Dr. Drew, Latimer, Garret Morgan, McCoy, tell me, which black? Either you're a comedian or the dumbest, ignorant, white idiot on the face of this earth.
mjewing8 9 months ago
@Royisinabox No, if that were true, we wouldn't even be talking about a person's skin color. There is no reason statistics have to match up exactly; and statistics alone are not evidence, they are ways people crunch numbers, not natural law. The individual earns where he ends up, the group he gets put in shouldn't determine anything (and doesn't if government doesn't mess with stuff).
patsfanczar 9 months ago
@patsfanczar Please tell me you don't actually believe that individuals get where they are because they earn it. No one can be that privileged...
cyranothe2nd 8 months ago
@cyranothe2nd Are you really that stupid? Some get where they are dishonestly, but never because of skin color, and giving people positions based on skin color via AA won't change anything. Furthermore, such dishonesty must be proven, and no one has any specific evidence that jobs are given out on a skin-color basis regularly.
patsfanczar 8 months ago
@patsfanczar Really? So white people that inherent homes from their parents while black people were denied loans (before the Fair Housing Act) don't benefit from their skin color? Or how about the huge disparity between average family wealth between whites/blacks, which is 50/1? Or the stats that say that white people with lower scores get into colleges based on the alumni status of their parents, while blacks don't? Srsly, I don't see how you can deny this. Maybe you just don't want to see.
cyranothe2nd 8 months ago
@cyranothe2nd Sounds to me like you just compared rich man vs. poor man and made 2 seriously insulting stereotypes and provided no evidence at all. After all, there are lies, there are damn lies, and then there are statistics. Fact is no statistic I have been shown objectively proves beyond a doubt that racism is still widespread in job selection. Furthermore, it isn't even government's job to tell private industry who it has to hire/ educate.
patsfanczar 8 months ago
@cyranothe2nd White people inherit homes from their parents! DANG! My parents missed that completely! I was CHEATED!
The disparity between the average white family and black family average out very close when the black family is a two parent home. Sadly, 72% of black children are born into single parent homes. Welfare is NOT a good way to develop wealth! More white women than black are on welfare but only because population black women are only 7% of the total population.
sortathesame 7 months ago
I believe in what is called " tough love". Take away all the Blacks legs up due to the fact that they don't use any of them in a way they were designed for, they abuse it at the cost of tax payers and hard working individuals. Take all the " Gibs ma dats" and let them hang, and maybe when the hand outs are no longer there MAYBE they will get the point, adapt or die. Give them 100% equality, and if they can't cut it tough shit.
grendel1013 9 months ago
I have no sympathy for Blacks. All races in Human History has been enslaved, discriminated, etc and they all seem to pull ahead except for Blacks. They bitch and whine about how unfair the system is and yet they do not take any incentive to improve their way of life. Blacks have more legs up than any other race in Human history and yet they still screw things up. As for Black families that lack the "true" family structure that is their own fault.
grendel1013 9 months ago
@Royisinabox You can't argue facts. U.S Blacks average I.Q is 80, Whites is 95. Why do you think Blacks score much lower than any other race? It is also well known that Blacks that use the "Race" card to get into Ivy league Colleges are 99% likely to drop out. And our education system does not help the matter, they are so afraid of crossing that race barrier that they don't teach them basic skills so they can at least have a sporting chance in the real world. It's ASK not AX.
grendel1013 9 months ago
@grendel1013 come on now man... first off, if those statistics are true, you need to truly empathize with some of these black folks. I'm sure about 90% of white parents treat and raise there kids with authoritative values, showing them the ways and how to become successful, just as their parents had done to them. In the African American community, there is a huge lack of family, and the values they provide to life and success. If more black families were united, things would be different
iLiveforthedanks 9 months ago
@iLiveforthedanks Oh btw they are BLACK not African American. Unless they immigrated here from Africa they are Black. It would be like calling myself an Italian American because my grandfather immigrated here from Italy. Stop trying to make Blacks feel good about themselves when it is not PC. Like bastardizing History by saying Blacks contributed to society through inventions, when in fact they have not invented a dam thing worth noting.
grendel1013 9 months ago
@grendel1013
Black inventors. Enjoy.
George Alcorn - Nathaniel Alexander - Virgie Ammons
B
Benjamin Banneker - Janet Emerson Bashen - Patricia Bath - Andrew Jackson Beard - Miriam E. Benjamin - Edmond Berger - Henry Blair - Bessie Blount - Sarah Boone - Otis Boykin - Charles Brooks - Phil Brooks - Henry Brown - Marie Brown - Robert Bryant - John Albert Burr
C
George Washington Carver - George Carruthers - Benjamin S. Carson That's just what I can post here. Try looking things up, ass.
cyranothe2nd 8 months ago
@Royisinabox Facts speak truth and are not biased. This " White guilt" that the LIbtards are force feeding down every single White persons throat has to go. We gave Blacks equality, and yet they can't cut it so YT has to lower standards so Blacks can get a leg up. And still with all the leg ups YT gives them they still manage to fuck it up, so what does that tell you? Blacks will always bitch about inequality until YT gives them everything on a silver platter for free.
grendel1013 9 months ago
@Royisinabox Bullshit. Giving Blacks more "Gibs me dats" does not raise them to higher levels. It is a known FACT That Blacks have been given jobs that they are not qualified for. It is a known FACT that Public and Private agencies have lowered their standards to accommodate Blacks. It is a known FACT that Colleges have lowered their standards so Blacks can have access. FACT Blacks have lower I.Qs than any other race and everyone has to accommodate that fact. Want equality, pass the dam test.
grendel1013 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Royisinabox There is no such thing as racism. Racism is racism.
"People of color receive less opportnity"
You are making nothing more than an assumption. Do you have evidence that it (meaning your statistic) is because of reduced opportunity? Fact is, you can't. Nobody except the extremely radical actually care what COLOR A PERSON'S SKIN IS (there really is no separate "race") when they are looking to hire an effective employee.
patsfanczar 10 months ago
@Royisinabox "White people have and make more money per capita than people of color." This is based on what? And why are we making the distinction only based on the color of skin a person happened to be born with? You aren't even looking at qualifacations or any other possible causes. Your research is incredible (if you did much at all) because you do not dig deep enough.
patsfanczar 10 months ago
If you own a computer, which i'm assuming you do, the materials i encourage you to read won't cost you anything. I've told you my opinion many times: AA is necessary b/c w/out it "minorities" would not be admitted into colleges at an acceptable %. I tried telling you that this has been proven by the "Shape of the River" but you refuse to read it. I suggested you read the Supreme Court case on AA and you refuse to count it as germane. How can this discussion continue when ur blissfully ignorant?
Talmadge33 1 year ago
aw shit son this finna be a battle FIGHT
Meteorman312 1 year ago
LOL @ Commie liberal retards.
gctechs 1 year ago
wite ppl got they money by stilling it from ppl of cola
DollaBiIIz 1 year ago
...who have been thought to be Muslim, when they are in fact Hindus/Sikhs
catsdogseagles 1 year ago
However one should consider if there are others in the country who have not historically benefited from AA and because of more recent circumstances, have been discriminated against: eg. Muslims, people from the Middle East etc. Because using AA would mean more exposure for them and therefore alleviating much of the ignorance in the U.S about the faith/people. There is no shortage of documents that show discrimination against people of a darker complexion, more recently...
catsdogseagles 1 year ago
There is a fundamental error in the way the questions herein are answered. The panelists are all debating whether there should be a moratorium on affirmative action to those who have historically benefited from the process. This debate would hold much water if that was the question.
catsdogseagles 1 year ago
'Rosenkranz'- you know what side he's on.
zunk11 1 year ago
LOVE these Intelligence Squared debates. Thanks for this video.
sleepcity 1 year ago
1)society doesn't NEED racial diversity
2)It IS racist to say that minorities are disadvantaged
3)Affirmative action makes the world unnecessarily harder for hard working people whose skin happens to be white
4)Why should a person get something that he or she didn't earn, and hasn't got a clue about?
patsfanczar 1 year ago 2
@patsfanczar Affirmative Action has never been about letting unqualified minorities take jobs from overqualified whites, but rather to have guidelines which allows institutions to make sure they are educating a diverse student body for a more diverse world. This tactic breaks down stereotypes and benefits everyone at the institution. Affirm. Act. is necessary because institutions have proved that without it non-whites would be severely under-represented. There is nothing fairer than this.
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 Underrepresented? Are we talking about a congress now? Affirmative action is racist, and is unconstitutional for the government to engage in. Now you tell me, why does a black man or a mexican, or any other person of any other minority need this extra boost? Are you trying to say that simply having white skin can make a man superior at nearly everything? If this is so, I would say you must be a racist.
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@patsfanczar i'm talking about being underrepresented at an institution. Affirmative Act is not racist and it is not unconstitutional according to the Supreme Court. Read the 2003 Michigan Law School ruling and you'll see why. It is an opportunity for qualified minorities to attain jobs or be accepted into schools of higher education. Without Affirm Act the amount of minorities in the workforce and school wouldn't be nearly as high as it is. We need more Affirm Act policies. How is it racist?
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 Simply put, it's racist because it involves looking at people's races. Ideally, the most qualified people should be accepted to the jobs and schools, regardless of skin color. The color-blind approach is the ONLY morally correct path.
I'm confused as to why you believe we need more people of various skin colors in jobs/schools... why aren't you equally concerned with heights, weights, shoe sizes, eye colors, and hair colors? Why is skin color more important?
lacusftw 1 year ago
@lacusftw Considering one's race isn't racist; ostracizing people based on their race is racist. AA makes sure that all qualified people of different racial backgrounds (including whites) have an equal chance of employment and representation in the workforce. It's not so much that you are confused as it is your unwillingness to truly think about this issue. Being "color-blind" on the surface seems admirable, but in a country that is notorious for racism considering race is necessary.
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 How can you possibly believe that AA provides everyone with an "equal" chance? If any racial group is given any amount of preference whatsoever, the chances aren't equal. As I previously said, ONLY color blindness will provide "equal" chances for all races. There's no reason someone's skin color should grant them an unfair boost
lacusftw 1 year ago
@lacusftw You're talking about AA as if it is denying applicants a spot in school or the workforce, when in actuality AA makes sure that no one racial group is being ostracized or effectually "shut out". I'm not sure how to make my case any clearer. Also, is your opposition to AA based on principle of its consideration of race or on its being racist in practice?
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 Race is an institution now? I don't know about you, but I thought the best idea to fighting racism was to be "colorblind" (which I would proudly say I am). Furthermore, affirmative action by the government is unconstitutional (I don't care what a bunch of old men with a political agenda say). There are amendments which have been put in place which ban racism (notably the 14th).
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@patsfanczar thanks for your post. i hope i helped to clear up some of your misunderstandings of this necessary policy.
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 Furthermore, i don't see how you don't understand that discriminating against a person by the color of his skin is racist. I believe the Civil Rights Champion MLK dreamed of people NOT being judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. Affirmative action is not needed to "help" minorities. In this country, we get jobs and admission to colleges based upon what we have done ourselves: Are minorities inept, then?
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@patsfanczar No, i don't think that minorities are inept. I also don't think that AA judges people by the color of their skin. What AA does is suggest a kind of framework that makes sure a plurality of minorities are accepted into institutions of higher education and the workforce. I don't see how AA discriminates against anybody, perhaps you could explain how discrimination plays a part in an AA policy. MLK's philosophy has never been a part of the US school system criteria for acceptance.
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 You are still judging people by the color of their skin and saying that minorities are inept because you insist that someone of a certain skin color should get admitted to a college or given a job, as if they are not good enough to earn it themselves.
AA is discrimination because a man with white skin is denied a college application to a less qualified person of another skin color (and yes, use of AA means that the individual in question would be less qualified) .
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@patsfanczar No one is being denied anything because of an AA policy. People get denied admittance into college and don't get hired for a particular job for a variety of reasons. If AA did what you think it does, then there would be very few white skinned college freshmen in America, however that does not seem to be the case. If and when white skinned people become the minority in America they will be protected from discrimination by the AA policy.
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 By what you are saying in this debate, it would appear you have no clue yourself what AA does. In AA, two people (one white, one a "minority" skinned person) who have similar criteria for entrance, even with the white person having slightly better criteria, the white person is denied. This says two things: you are being biased against a white person, and your argument is based upon the fact that minorities aren't good enough to enter college on their own.
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@patsfanczar My asking you what race u were was a joke. My bad if u got offended; just try to relax. But a more serious question is how old are you? I only ask becuz i'm 20 and i'd feel bad if all this time i was debating a kid who isn't sure what he/she is talking about. I'm not trying to insinuate that you don't know what ur talking about, but u seem to be ignorant to a few things and i'm not sure u understand what AA really is. it's absolutely not like institutions in 1960s south.
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 20, lol. You don't seem to understand the connections between AA and the pre-civil rights south (not 1960's, it was that way from about 1620 to 1960). You yourself have yet to cite anything that undeniably proves racism is necessary in giving people jobs.
Yes, there are white people who get into community colleges with less than a 3.0, and there are minorities that get denied entrance into prestigious colleges with more than a 3.0, not sure what your point is.
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 Furthermore, I'm not sure what you mean by "MLK's philosophy has never been a part of the US school system criteria for acceptance," because I am talking civil rights here, which you would be massively stupid to say he did nothing for, and also massively stupid to say it didn't affect schools or job acceptance.
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@patsfanczar I should have said school admittance instead of "acceptance". MLK has absolutely contributed to social justice and peace. But as far as the integration of schools and this AA policy, MLK's philosophy is not apart of the criteria. Perhaps the Civil Rights Movement as a whole played some part, but not MLK. I can definitely see where you are confused. you're better off doing ur on research than taking my word for why schools were integrated.
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@patsfanczar Also, there's no need to insinuate that i am massively stupid. I think you need to do more research on AA and see how and why it is being implemented by schools and in the workforce. You seem confused of how the policy works. What makes you think that white people r being discriminated against? What studies support that claim? Again, i have never said minorities are inept; i have a hard enough time calling minorities, minorities. By the way, are you white?... lol Joking, joking :)
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 I'm not insinuating that you are massively stupid unless you believe that Dr.King did nothing to further racial EQUALITY which affected SCHOOLS greatly.
You comment on whether I am white or not is irrelevant, but it further indicates your racist attitude.
patsfanczar 1 year ago
You need to do some research yourself on what exactly is the definition of race and the definition of discrimination, then put those together and you may hopefully understand the simple concepts I am telling you. AA is based on nothing but race, and is basically the same exact thing that happened in the south to blacks since before the 60's. I have to ask why you feel you need unscientific studies for everything. Change your gear and use real logic, not empty studies.
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@patsfanczar I'm not a huge fan of unscientific facts, but there have been in depth studies on the merits of AA and that the policy is necessary. Not all minorities who apply to schools get in; and ur example seems to imply that unqualified minorities get in via AA and overqualified whites don't get in becuz of it. So i'll ask u, do white (non minority) ppl get into schools with less than a 3.0gpa and are there minorities who don't get accepted into schools with a 3.0gpa?
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@patsfanczar sometimes ppl just don't get into school, racism and discrimination are not factors. AA makes sure that campuses racially reflect the applicants and population of America. Again, no one is being discriminated against. Ur example is valid, i'm sure that does happen, but how many applicants of the same background get in with a lower gpa. Please, please read a book on the subject. What is ur problem with AA, kid?
Talmadge33 1 year ago
What I am trying to ask you is would you give me specific examples where AA is needed because someone was denied entrance to a college just because his or her skin was black? Maybe we should leave of the "ethnicity" field on the college applications?
As far as "What is ur problem with AA, kid" I would believe you would have to be bloody stupid not to understand this already. Maybe you need to stop telling me I'm stupid, wake up, and read what my arguments are.
I guess that's to much to ask.
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@patsfanczar I'm not trying to call you stupid, kid. And i'm trying very hard to see where you are coming from. Simply put, AA is needed so that school campuses and classrooms reflect the diversity of their world. I suppose a similar argument is what i would use for AA in the workforce. My point is that ppl get into college and don't get into college regardless of their race.
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 What you are saying is that you value a black student sitting right next to a white student so specifically that you would put your philosophical BS in front of hard work and a good education. This is what troubles me. You are stupidly pretending that AA doesn't affect anything, while it seems to have this magical effect of diversifying schools (which is totally unnecessary). Deserving people do get denied jobs and schooling based on race, otherwise AA wouldn't exist...
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@patsfanczar The problem is that the majority of the US used to be white, and therefore without even trying to schools get campuses that are majority white. But, as a institution of higher learning in a diverse country, a school must educate all people from every race and socieo-economic class. This is where AA comes n2 play, that's why schools use AA. Now, what exactly is troubling to you about this policy? Because not every white male who applies to a college gets in? C'mon, get real, kid
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 Furthermore, you are doing nothing but stereotyping and being just about as racist as it gets while still being able to pretend you aren't. You are looking at demographics and insisting that the ratios of black:white:whatever in schools should match exactly what they are in the real world, which does not consider the individual people who worked their asses off to get where they are. To go on further, AA is not needed to help social class, that is what an earned scholarship is for.
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 Now you've cited the example of "when white people become the minority, AA will help them, too." This is not pleasing, because it once again puts people who have earned their way into college at a serious disadvantage. The way I see it, getting an education is an individual effort, not one based off of what color your skin is.
And seriously, read my posts and quit calling me stupid (i take "kid" as "stupid". Completely unnecessary).
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@patsfanczar I don't mean to call you stupid, kid, but ur thoughts 2 me seem uninformed & therefore childish. U are just not grasping what AA is for or how it works. I'm sorry that you do not currently possess the ability to see the other side. This is sad because you are also against AA for some ideological post racial US that has been proven to not exist. We have an obligation to educate all types of qualified ppl. You just don't seem to understand this. I feel sorry 4 u kid. Grow Up
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 My thoughts are uninformed then? I see that you were outright lying saying you did not mean to call me stupid, Pinocchio. How about you enlighten me as to what is uninformed in what I am saying. I am using logic, not bullshit from some random website. I don't even see how it is possible to be making uninformed comments when I am running logic circles around you. I am well aware of how AA works, the one who doesn't understand and is making under-informed comments appears to be you.
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 I am not pretending that America is beyond racism (clearly, because we are still using race for college admittance). What I'm trying to do is make it that way, and what you are trying to do is keep America from the dream of all those who fought so hard for EQUAL civil rights. "We have an obligation to educate all types of qualified ppl" which is what AA doesn't do. AA gives people jobs and college for skin color, not qualification.
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 "I feel sorry 4 u kid. Grow Up"
I feel sorry for you (not really, but if it makes you feel better) that I have dizzied you with logic to the point that you have to make weak character attacks like this one. I see you side's point, and I find absolutely no reason in it: You have given me no reason why a man should be denied a decent college education or a decent job because his skin isn't of the right color, you have only insisted (with emptiness) "it must be so."
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@patsfanczar Relax kid; you don't have to reply 3xs. i think u are misinformed because the AA policy does not restrict people from being accepted into school or accept unqualified people into school. I think u are confused and don't understand that just because people don't get accepted into college doesn't mean that AA had a part to play. That has never been a part of the policy. I don't think that its a personal attack to say that ur opinion is based on falsehoods. U understand that, kid?
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 I wouldn't have to make 3 posts if it wasn't for the # characters filter in yt.
You need to get to understanding logic, kid. People do get denied education based on nothing but AA, I don't care what liberal, twisted book you seem to be trying to get me to read. Logically, if people weren't accepted or denied only on the basis of race, AA wouldn't boost anyone, and thus there would be no point in this debate because AA would just be a hollow word that doesn't help or hurt anyone.
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@patsfanczar Just take it easy kid. I resent being called a liberal, i'm more of a socialist politically. The "liberal, twisted book" i suggested you should read earlier were the case concerning AA and the Univ of Michigan and "The Shape of the River" authored by William Bowen and Derek Bok, the former Presidents of Princeton and Harvard Univ. Their study proved that AA was necessary and important. Hopefully u will read 1 of these b4 replying, kid. But somehow, kid, i don't think u will :)
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 LOL, socialist is liberal. I have no concern over some book you must be getting paid to advertise, but the fact is the president of Princeton or Harvard University doesn't mean jack to me when it comes to studies, especially since you can provide no evidence in a debate as to WHY Affirmative Action is necessary, instead telling me to read the same book which has corrupted your mind and drained it of logic and ethics.
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@patsfanczar Once again kid you have proven your childishness. You could read the studies of the 2 former Presidents of Princeton and Harvard which proves the need for AA, yet you choose not to because its "illogical". You could read the Supreme Court case concerning AA and the Univ of Michigan, but you choose not to because it "corrupted my mind". If you don't want to read material that's germane to the topic at hand it is pointless to debate with you. Please grow up. Happy holidays, kid.
Talmadge33 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 I like the way that just because I disagree with you, you decide to drop name attacks and call me childish, maybe it reflects your own character. I chose not to read these because they are a waste of time and money, and provide no better insight into the issue than what I already have. All it is is the opinion of a few individuals which only you seem to hold significant. The fact is that the debate over AA is a logical and ethical one, not one that needs studies done about it.
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@Talmadge33 And I still have yet to hear in your words exactly why Affirmative Action is so necessary. The point in citing sources, after all, is to quote them, not to tell your opponent in a debate to find your information for you.
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@patsfanczar On youbutts? *I* link people to sources so they will read them. If they're too lazy to do that and instead wish for me to quote little tidbits, then that let's me know that they are not interested in actually learning about it and I don't even bother discussing it with them anymore.
OmorosePanya 1 year ago
@patsfanczar (Con't) If you truly wish to understand the importance of AA then I can recommend some excellent books and essays, but they are heavy on history because, well, you can't understand it without learning the history and past policies and outcomes.
...Or do you honestly expect to understand the entirety of the issue from a quote that can be posted in one or a few youtube comments?
OmorosePanya 1 year ago
@OmorosePanya Tell me, what facts do you have? My point is heavily laden with logic, while you're whole side talks about essays which express little more than the opinion of somebody who got that opinion published to make money off of chums who would buy it. The fact is, you two need to cut the "there's this essay I'm not going to name which you should read" and actually cite facts and logic if you wish to sway me (or at least not look stupid).
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@patsfanczar I was unaware that events in history---particularly well-documented exclusionary policies and their results---were opinions. Silly me!
Direct quote anything that implies that I did not plan to give you those things.
Which facts and statistics? Those about wealth and income disparities? The college enrollment rate of each race? The poverty rates of each race? The criminality of each race? Racial profiling?
OmorosePanya 1 year ago
@OmorosePanya You don't understand how this works, do you? Sourcing you to something that states that x percentage of y race are z will NOT explain to you why affirmative action is necessary, which is what you asked. That said, tell me which statistics you want and I will find them for you.
OmorosePanya 1 year ago
It's unfortunate if you're asking for these things because you're too goddamned lazy to read a book, but the reality is that, if you wish to understand, that's what you're going to have to do. Research. Learn. For numerous hours. You're going to have to understand Johnson's intent. You're going to have to understand the policies that put us in this mess in the first place. You need a foundation upon which to analyze the statistics you desire. Without it, how do you expect to understand?
OmorosePanya 1 year ago
@OmorosePanya Quote the exact words I typed which were asking for statistics. It would appear to me that nobody who insists upon persisting with racist policies in schools has the patience to read my comments or the brain to understand it.
patsfanczar 1 year ago
Comment removed
OmorosePanya 1 year ago
@patsfanczar You asked me what facts I have, and you also asked the other person. Which nonstatistical (or nonmathematical or nonscientific in nature) facts do you desire that explain why affirmative action is necessary? Furthermore, you appear to conclude that essays and books DON'T or CAN'T have facts.
OmorosePanya 1 year ago
@OmorosePanya I have never found books or essays to have very reliable facts: They tout opinions and generally little else. I want raw facts: How about you tell me exactly what brings your so claimed need for affirmative action in selection of college and job applications? I want yo hear undeniable facts that you seem to be claiming to have that people are racist pro-whites in selecting those, that there would be a need to balance against that with more racism, and bring in real logic.
patsfanczar 1 year ago
@patsfanczar Sorry for the slow reply. I don't generally log into youtube so I always forget about my discussions with people.
Perhaps you just don't know how to find the better, more reliable ones?
I didn't say that. Pay attention.
I'm confused as to what you want me to find. Nothing with an explanation, apparently, because you don't know how to find reliable sources so you assume they're all bad. Am I just linking you to a fact sheet?
:-/
OmorosePanya 11 months ago
@patsfanczar Your qualifications are puzzling to me. I don't understand how you expect to learn about this from a fact sheet. Is it just something that lists policies? I still think all of this is because you don't want to actually learn about the US history relevant to this, which is critical to understanding this as a whole.
Can we start with what affirmative action is? I have a feeling that you really don't know.
(I apologize if I don't reply for a week. >.>)
OmorosePanya 11 months ago
@OmorosePanya What, right now, warrants such racist policies as affirmative action? Its a pretty simple question, or maybe your mind is just to small to understand it. My major issue is that you left-wingers can't seem to drop the concept of skin color and realize that stereotyping is not how you run an economy right.
patsfanczar 11 months ago
@patsfanczar --- Taken to PM ---
OmorosePanya 11 months ago
@patsfanczar So, in conclusion, I will provide you with a much needed HISTORY lesson and then SUPPLEMENT you with statistics. That's right---they only SUPPORT the point; they don't function AS the point. You apparently don't understand the function of statistics, which makes me wonder why you request them in the first place. It's quite basic that they don't explain CONCEPTS, which is what AA is. They don't explain WHY, which is what you asked. Math and science explain HOW, not WHY.
Basic.
OmorosePanya 1 year ago
Just blacks and hispanics? No mention of first peoples?
loewenclass 1 year ago
I know how to eradicate racism: We become a theocracy and there is no more separation between Church and State. We take to heart what our founding fathers said about God. If Christianity was what our theocracy was based on, racism would slowly dissolve.
I could give you my thoughts on the economy, but that would primarily support the notion of a level playing-field.
GodChristLord 1 year ago
@GodChristLord I don't think I can agree that a theocracy would help end racism. Usually theocracies are heavily racist. The middle east is a good example. The KKK is very much all about some Jesus. The bible is used quite often to justify bigotry of all types. What about christianity would trigger the end of racism?
padawanskeptic 1 year ago
Thanks. You do not understand Christianity.
GodChristLord 1 year ago
@GodChristLord I disagree with you there as well. I'm pretty well read on it in fact. Perhaps you could explain why your interpretation is correct and all the others are not? Matthew 27:25 has been used for a long time to justify the persecution of Jews. The book of John is pretty harsh on Jews as well. Both the old testament and the new testament are supportive of slavery.
Leviticus 19:20-22 Ephesians 6:5-9 There are a large amount of others as well.
padawanskeptic 1 year ago
@GodChristLord You did not address my economic question. I assume you concede?
1856 Reverend Thomas Stringfellow a baptist minister wrote "A Scriptural View of Slavery" Pretty pro-slave document.
padawanskeptic 1 year ago
@GodChristLord If we take to heart what our founding fathers said about god we would have to take in The Treaty of Tripoli. It's not very supportive of the idea that we are a religious nation much less a christian one.
padawanskeptic 1 year ago
You do not think we are a Christian nation, with Jesus Christ at the very fiber in most of what Americans are? Well if not in 2010, maybe in 1985 when I was in school.
Do you happen to be Jewish?
GodChristLord 1 year ago
@GodChristLord Our laws are set up secular. God does not play a part in it. The Treaty of Tripoli states quite clearly that were are not a christian nation. I was raised Presbyterian. I have Scandinavian heritage.
padawanskeptic 1 year ago
I have never heard of the Treaty of Tripoli used for the purposes you have used it. Instead of taking up this comments section on this person's upload if you like to carry on we could do it on our channels (Personal Messages).
GodChristLord 1 year ago
@GodChristLord I prefer to do my debating in the open. Convincing the person you are debating with is next to impossible. Convincing people that might read it is not. I would have very little use of taking the debate away from here. I appreciate your dedication to the subject and the respectful way which you have handled yourself. If you would like to continue I would rather stay here.
padawanskeptic 1 year ago
@GodChristLord Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli reads as follows:
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion...
There is more to it but it would not fit in the text box here.
padawanskeptic 1 year ago
@GodChristLord Do you think that the founders added in seperation of church in & state as a joke?
benympls 1 year ago
@benympls Why would I think that? This comes from a conversation that got totally of course. padaw. claimed that since I was Caucasian that I was privileged, and so I contended that if that were true then those that benefit from Affirmative Action, minorities, are lazy.
GodChristLord 1 year ago
@GodChristLord Affirmative Action is an economic issue and you said your economic stances support the level playing field. Affirmative Action is the mechanism for leveling the field. There is a disconnect in your logic that I am confused by.
padawanskeptic 1 year ago
Affirmative action is absolutely wrong. All it does is further enforce the belief that minorities are somehow inferior and require special consideration to be successful in this country. How can I phrase this so that it makes sense? I know... AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IS RACIST!
dunkelfier 1 year ago
Obamas mediocre grades at Occidental College did not merit admission into Colombia, where his mediocre grades should have precluded admittance to Harvard Law School, where he was artificially thrust to the lead the Harvard Law Review, where he became the first leader NOT to write editorial pieces. Obama was given such privileges without proven merit.
islandmuffin 1 year ago
opponents to affirmative action claim that it gives people of color an unfair advantage, but whites have had unfair advantage directly from our government throughout our entire history. so apparently, when our government attempts to equalize that imbalance, we are apparently giving an unfair advantage. Minus the fact that the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women, but besides that fact, it's totally anti-white, right?
artsygirlnessa 1 year ago
the thing is that immigrants that come here are the poor uneducated ones looking for a better life
and that is why they have lower scores
the ones with money stay in their country and are usually part of the ruling class
kurozaki45 1 year ago
@kurozaki45 I disagree. Black kids from rich families get low scores. Non-emigrating sub-saharian africans have low IQs. Maybe we should not dismiss prof. Watson's opinions so quickly ("all our social policies are based on the fact that their [Africans'] intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really."). Sure, it's unpleasant. As is the fact that the sun will some day scorch the earth.
"False" isn't a logical equivalent of "unpleasant".
secessionesubito 1 year ago
lol, what a joke.
tybash 1 year ago
Fuck affirmative action. The most qualified should get the job.
gothstar14 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Yes, I think it is high time that we now give up on blacks. Someone should say once and fo all that blacks are really inferior to other races in every way, and that there is really no hope for them. They are only good as slaves, nothing more. I will never sign up for a black doctor or dentist, nor will enroll in a class taught by a black teacher.
DaveFoster143Records 1 year ago
Yes, I think it is high time that we now give up on blacks. Someone should say once and fo all that blacks are really inferior to other races in every way, and that there is really no hope for them. They are only good as slaves, nothing more. I will never sign up for a black doctor or dentist, nor will enroll in a class taught by a black teacher.
DaveFoster143Records 1 year ago
@DaveFoster143Records Have you ever heard about "White privilege", or taken and anthropology class? If not, you should read up on that. 'Race' is a social construct.
1029blue 1 year ago
@1029blue how can a "social construct" make you jump higher than me? May that come from "black privilege"?
secessionesubito 1 year ago
@secessionesubito Are you saying that I am "black"? If so, I have to disappoint you.
1029blue 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@1029blue No, it was supposed to be impersonal (I'm no native English speaker as you might have guessed). Read: "how can a "social construct" make a race jump higher on average than some other race? ".
secessionesubito 1 year ago
@secessionesubito I know the answer! It can't?
ltrizzle84 1 year ago
@ltrizzle84 Exactly. It can't. Actually, "race does not exist" arguments are purely ideological, like the old stupid "blacks have no soul". They try to force to give up the term "race" to describe largely inbred groups who share similar totally real and obvious characteristics, like jumping higher on average, having light skin, being more prone to some diseases, higher IQ. They don't say "these traits don't exist", they say "don't use the word race to describe them". It's a linguistic dispute.
secessionesubito 1 year ago
@secessionesubito Exactly. And if Blacks are so downtrodden and poor how is it that they excel in certain sports?
leeason1 1 year ago
@DaveFoster143Records Race is made up by the government dumbass. take a sociology class...you fucking tard.
ltrizzle84 1 year ago
@ltrizzle84 be careful, you might convince some people you're genetically unable to make a point without insulting! In addition, your government must be a very powerful one to make you jump a couple of feet higher than a poor European like me ... the almighty power of discrimination, what the hell might DNA have to do with it, right? It's all skin deep, right? (WTF?!) My, my, say it 100 times over and you end up believing it.
secessionesubito 1 year ago
@secessionesubito It wouldn't surprise me, if you were one of those people, who claim that women are dumber than men because their heads are smaller.
1029blue 1 year ago
@ltrizzle84 Yeah, so skin color and skull formation is just a fiction of government? LOL, dumb fuck go study genetics instead of sociology.
leeason1 1 year ago
@leeason1 The only race is human. You are talking about ethnicity. Now go take a shit in your mothers mouth before I do.
ltrizzle84 1 year ago
@ltrizzle84 FUCK YOU you stupid liberal cunt.
leeason1 1 year ago
@leeason1 Go back to Africa!
ltrizzle84 1 year ago
the needs of the many,outweigh those of the few.We are the only mammals on the face of the Earth that does not pratice "selective" breeding.And our species & our enviroment will end up paying the ultimate price for this shortsightedness.We are nothing more than parasites on Earth,we have earned our fate......sad.
wilatemodel 2 years ago
Question: Should a Caucasian individual whose family or ancestry was not in the USA until after 1865 (when slavery ended) be penalized by Affirmative Action when he or she applies for a job, more specifically a public-sector job?
PLEASE give me your thoughts and rationale only if you have completed college study to some degree in the US.
GodChristLord 2 years ago 2
Still want some input on Affirmative Action ? The answer is no and further more the time of immigration by Anglo-Americans has nothing to do with this issue in the first place. There are some simple facts that need to be understood by the masses that are politically incorrect to discuss. This however does not change the fact that they are indeed fact. In sum humans are opportunists and affirmative action like many other things leads to opportunism.
hatchls1 1 year ago
@GodChristLord of course. anyone who is white is benefiting from white privilege if their family came here in the 1600s or if they came here last week. AA isn't a penalization for being white, its to help those who AREN'T white with the crap that they have to deal with day in and day out.
morlock19 1 year ago
...family arrived after slavery ended (post-1865). The benefit we have gotten has been penalized because of our skin color. Read.
GodChristLord 1 year ago
@GodChristLord i did read...the whole point of AA is to give brown people at least a chance at equality. there is no way you can completely eradicate the systemic problems our society has. you can't erase the fact that white people from the moment they are born (no matter what their familial history is) are already ahead of the game. this isn't about penalizing, its about giving black people a chance they wouldn't otherwise have because of the culture we live in.
morlock19 1 year ago
My ancestry had no white privileged because they got here shortly AFTER slavery ended. AA came about to make up for slavery. NONE OF MY FAMILY WAS IN THE
U S A TO TAKE PART IN SLAVERY. They were in Europe.
Should we penalize Russians or blacks or all bald males or all lesbians for the death and crucifixion of Christ when it was the Romans back then who were accountable.
You are making completely no sense.
GodChristLord 1 year ago
@GodChristLord I think the point is that you are benefiting from white privilege if you are white in America. You. Not your ancestors. When you drive down the street and aren't pulled over for driving while black, you have just benefited. Try watching Tim Wise's Pathology of White Privilege. He covers every argument you've come up with and everyone I've heard. Even if you don't agree with him at the end you can at least see where the other side comes from a little better.
padawanskeptic 1 year ago
I am not privileged. I am a common/ordinary man. AA not profiling. If I benefit from some sort of white privilege then a black person hurts himself from laziness.
GodChristLord 1 year ago
@GodChristLord I will admit I'm making the assumption that you are white given that you are concerned that you are being blamed for slavery. If that's not so then you need to tell me. I say again but with more precision, statistically speaking you are far less likely to be pulled over as a white male. This is a benefit. If you don't agree or want more supporting evidence I can provide it. However it would be easier to watch the video I recommended.
padawanskeptic 1 year ago
Comment removed
GodChristLord 1 year ago
Paco, this is an AA upload and comment section. Do you have anything to say in regard to those two subjects? Otherwise, I am out. 'AA upload and comment section.'
GodChristLord 1 year ago
@GodChristLord The white privilege has been your affirmative action for as long as you have been in America. It is penalizing minorities. If you could eradicate racism amongst whites then we would not need Affirmative Action. It's not like racism is gone and it won't self regulate out of existence. You know Tim Wise is in part 3 of this debate. I will say that if you have a better mechanism to offset white privilege than affirmative action I'd like to hear it.
padawanskeptic 1 year ago
White privilege remains today. For example in one study a university submitted identical job applications and resumes to a variety of employment sectors and job levels. All they changed were one set was given names like Bob Smith (white names) the other set were given black sounding names like Tyrone Greene
Even with identical applications, identical qualifications the white names got significantly more call-backs
LeopardFrogPilboxhat 1 year ago
@LeopardFrogPilboxhat If so, then black laziness remains today. I can give you a case if we examine Section 8 and food stamp applicants. I wonder too, what race has the highest percentage of parents both present during their child's life?
GodChristLord 1 year ago
@GodChristLord
I invite you to go deep into the hollers of Appalachia. There you will find whites that are doing next to nothing to improve their lot in life.
Go into the trailer parks of the midwest and you will find white degeneracy everwhere you look.
Go into the tenements of any major city and you will find whites living in the same conditions as the blacks.
LeopardFrogPilboxhat 1 year ago
@LeopardFrogPilboxhat So what is your point? You say what I already know. And, I say what you already know.
GodChristLord 1 year ago
@LeopardFrogPilboxhat do you know what university conducted this experiment??
itsbeenbrought 1 year ago
For the record,and before some fanatic misconstrues my point and wants debate...I am comfortable with any progressive person(not in the political sense but as in intelligent,rationale and altruistic)regardless of race.
I do not believe those traits are even distributed among races.Unlike actual racist people I allow for exceptions for individuals.
If immigration policy imposed better screening(for progressive traits)much of the ethnic tensions we have now would diminish IMO.
spentonmediocrity 2 years ago
@spentonmediocrity How do you define 'progressive traits'? How would that be determined? Do you know anything about the immigration progress?
1029blue 1 year ago
Inferior is a relative term.People would be speaking more in terms of specialization if they knew any better though(which they don't).
They don't speak of specialization because it doesn't square with leftist ideologies of equality.
It is here that we can see anti-science parallels between religious fanaticism and leftist ideology.The collectivist mind(in it's generic sense)is exposed for it's weakness as it manifests in both religion and ideology.
spentonmediocrity 2 years ago
Why not? White people have generalized non-whites, for centuries, in order to establish and perpetuate sickening propaganda that further divides people.
svaughn4 2 years ago
Let's extend your logic(I know it's irrational emoting but let's pretend shall we?).
Since blacks,taken as a whole, have perpetrated grossly higher rate of interracial rape that it's ok for non blacks to treat *all* blacks as a block?We should disregard the individual?
I'm done with you jackass.You have nothing but rudderless feelings.
spentonmediocrity 2 years ago
What the hell are you talking about. That's not even what I was trying to convey. I don't know where you're coming from.
svaughn4 2 years ago
correction-drd47r ,maoa
spentonmediocrity 2 years ago
agriculturalism,evolutionary specialization,G,K vs R,DRD4,MAOA 7R,bell curves,Lewontin's Fallacy,etc etc...
Politicians nor the public speak with such terms because they live in the dark.Even worse they don't understand that they are in the dark and proceed as if they are somehow wise.
Hence the commentary here of the chatting classes.
spentonmediocrity 2 years ago
Comment removed
spentonmediocrity 2 years ago
Speaking as a black man I'd have to say that I'm against affirmative action. However, affirmative action is no different from white privilege. The only distinction is that one policy benefits whites and the other benefits non-whites. You may hear a person say, "Well, you only got the job because you're black." Indeed, there may be some truth in that statement but that doesn't take away from the centuries that we were denied an opportunity for the same reason. This is just food for thought.
svaughn4 2 years ago
Omorose Panya, you can notice that he has the same number of negative feed back on all his commens 11 just enuff to usurp his commens, coincidence?
Hexsal 2 years ago
Just one thing i like to point out, notice the amount of negative feed back on people who agree with tim wise is almost identical, the numbers are all the same..is like the racist patrol got a distress call fromt its fellow brothers to come spew lies and spam the lines, this is something you will notice on almost anything relating to minorities rights or complains, its easy to see a pattern here, racism is over?, jus type black or mexican on youtube then read the commens then tell me is over.
Hexsal 2 years ago
Hexsal handsdown to you my friend your clearly right... Race is something we notice everyday in this country...In my opinion Affiramtive Action is the least the Govt could give back to the mniorties in this country and how they treated in the past... Lets face it the White man got a head start in this country since 1776!! we minorties had no rights or anything in our favor at all... until the 1960s Civil Rights movement...we minorities in general were bacisly living in the shadows of the white
ArabianKnight1201 2 years ago
Granted,youtube is no place for real debate due to it's limitations.
That said others can observe how you rely on personal attacks whereas i stick to the point.Does it mean I am right?No
But I AM...
Anyhow,people able to see beyond today's prejudices and superstitions can see the matter for what it is.
You don't have a leg to stand on and multiculturalism will slide in bloody chaos fairly soon.
Your religion will be exposed as will as it's dim witted followers.
spentonmediocrity 2 years ago
I can supply studies,evidence that lays it all out. Blacks and whites have different collective sensibilities,behavior trends and abilities,the roots are fundamentally genetic.
..that pluralism in FACT leads to greater mistrust and less happiness in communities,to more hostility between people.
There are cold facts to support that which should be obvious to anybody.
That one needs to point out the non sequitur,the problem created by AA highlights the futility of debating such rubes.
spentonmediocrity 2 years ago
You can supply studies, evidence that lays it all out?
I guess that is fascinating to someone here but proving PLURALISM "leads to greater mistrust and less happiness in communities ..." is a sloppy attempt at deflection. Can you actually articulate an argument against AA ? Your posts indicate your idea Utopia will include a bloody war along ethnic lines. Then will you support AA for those who lose? What aspects of multiculturalism will slide in bloody chaos? Do you mean Rock'n'roll?
shaxebeer 2 years ago
So, technically this makes Asians better than whites. They do far better than you in academics, they commit less crime(or at least they don't get caught), on average their household makes more money than a white person. What are you saying?
svaughn4