It's all over the world & not just JW's there is a shift in consciousness where man has finally seen through all these limitations of religion & are being enlightened in different ways as their is infinite ways to be enlightened other than religion, just doing what excites you is enlightening,Man is starting to learn what christ was teaching & that is freedom from judgement & awareness on a higher level is what life is about, peace, joy & love found within & not from a book
@TheSnarkyApologist Where is it written or eeven proved that you forfeit your soul? the thing that most religion don't want to understand is Jesus did not live by a book of contradictions, NO he Knew that man created his reality through his beliefs & thoughts emotions without doubt, Christ didn't believe, HE KNEW which is deeper than belief itself & is felt at the heart of every man, no need for a book to replace the heart.God is all that is period, how else can god know of everything..cont
if he is not part of it's creations, how could god know what happen to all, Only the meek shall inherit the earth, If you live like christ you will indeed inherit the earth,& that is live in the freedom without judgement, as god as is all that is is unconditional as christ was the son of god. Christ was not judgemental over .sinners.liers,murders. why? because he knew the bigger picture of all that is & it's part to each & everything in it, no judgement, it just is, mans ego needs be tamed.
@TheSnarkyApologist, there is never an exchange for your soul it's your eternally , nothing, no one not even God can take that from You. than it would contradict god itself, When you say forfeit without having to read the bible, Matthew 16:26 is ego related as in letting your ego rule you, but no soul is forever ignorant, & one way or another will always yearn for the soul as a baby to it's mother's breast, the ego is what you can call satan, it take control of you if you are unaware, cont
All that is(god) asks that you which whom it shows itself through for experience that you show responsibilty for your own conscious awareness, as in to be aware of the right choices that are always being given to you from within, however ignored by the ego for physical gain, which is no sin to god but a stepping stone for learning who you are,God does not put you on earth for you to ignore yourself, that in itself is a mockery of god, we have been given life to enjoy, & to be grateful to god
I studied with the JW for a few weeks,, I broke off from them when according to them JESUS is the Mighty God and JEHOVAH is the Almighty God Yet they claim there is only one God, JESUS is Michael The Archangel when in heaven, NOT to attend any other church, nor study any other religious materials, Trinity means three Gods and is of Pagan Origin, none of which is in the Bible...unconscionable liars !
Many do lie. I have seen it first hand. Most are simply spiritually lost and NEED an organization to lead them. They CANNOT understand the things of God so what do they do? They change the words in the Bible and print their own to fit their doctrine!
Not toooo backwards huh?
1 Cor 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
How can you be born again if you are teaching or practising things that are displeasing to Jehovah and that have the demonic roots that they have? Trinity, immortality of the soul, cross symbols, christmas, new years, valentine's day, birthdays, easter, halloween, I mean...let's get real..every one of them with backgrounds to either/or paganism, witchcraft, magic and idolatry!
If it's displeasing Jehovah why did HE approve of them in 1919?
Here is what's going on my friend....
1 Cor 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The "org" couldn't understand God's Word, so they printed their own to make it fit what they wanted it to fit.
@TheSnarkyApologist Snarky..I don't really need to answer this point...you have answered it yourself..again..look at the paganistic practices that you are teaching and/or celebrating and encouraging others to do..all originating from paganistic practices involving magic, witchcraft, satanism and idolatry. How can you say what you just said re W.T. when you insist on practicing these things? Is it not the very one who insists on practicing such things the one who is spiritually blinded???
@TheSnarkyApologist 1)Wrong..the WT was not involved in all those practices in 1919. I believe the only one left was the cross symbol and it was eliminated by 1929 immediately after research was completed and its background was revealed. 2)Wrong..Jesus knew the truth and formed his own organization and TAUGHT them to do it right. 3) Jehovah was not immediately pleased and it would take time to gain that approval depending on the efforts to eliminate the false religious influences remaining
@TheSnarkyApologist It may be good enough for you Bill, but it's not good enough for Jehovah and that's why once the research was done on it and it became knowledgeable that it was tied into paganism..a new truth emerged at that time and it was eliminated, thus continueing the cleaning up of the congregation and the distancing of itself from apostate christendom.
@TheSnarkyApologist within the organization. History shows that he blessed those efforts. 3) If there were still false influences, no matter how minor, within the organization, they would need to be cleaned up as research and proper understandings were eventually revealed to them by Jehovah.
No...wrong again my friend. You see when someone is making an inspection and they have criteria for judging, they don't say, "you failed all these points, but you have time to clean it up, just forget about MY list of criteria". See how foolish that is.
No, the fact remains that the WT was celebrating birthdays and giving presents, taught Jesus died on a cross, etc, etc,...
Jesus inspected them based on what they were doing, and gave them thumbs up!
@TheSnarkyApologist Thumbs up only began when they began cleaning up their act and eliminating false teachings and separating themselves from wrong practices.
@TheSnarkyApologist I'm afraid you've missed the point here somehow Bill. It's not a matter of who was right or wrong.Here is the whole point. Let's not forget that mankind was far removed from the truth of what the bible taught for roughly 1700 yrs. When Jehovah's people were thrown in prisons all over the world during WW1 for refusing to pick up arms, they removed the stains of bloodguilt from their hands that the clergy of christendom had on theirs. Of course they would receive God's approval
@TheSnarkyApologist for this. That's a given. However, they still needed to continue distancing themselves from Babylon the great, the world empire of false religion, by continuing to remove manmade doctrines from their practices. As the background of these practices became known to them through historical records, they were stopped.Thus Jehovah over a period of time revealed "new light" or new truth to his organization. and refined them.That's why it wasn't until 1939, after all these doctrines
@TheSnarkyApologist were eliminated, he did not allow them to carry his name. This is similar to what will happen on the paradise earth during the thousand yr. reign. Although such things as sickness and death will be immediately removed from us, we will still need a period of time to develop our personalities and work towards perfection. That is not going to happen in an instant. That's what the thousand yr. reign is for. As the book of Revelations says, there will be a new book which will
@TheSnarkyApologist teach us what Jehovah continues to require from us and teach us how to live in peace. Jehovah's people, although imperfect as individuals are already working towards that now by applying bible principles and Jehovah's laws to their everyday conduct. I'm afraid it's just not an overnight process, but something that has to be worked towards by obeying and loving Jehovah's laws and requirements.
@TheSnarkyApologist Re approval in 1919, I believe this is in fullfillment of bible prophecy in Revelation where the 2 witnesses would be silenced for 3 1/2 days. During ww2 the president of the WTBS and seven other members of the GB were sentenced to 20yrs. imprisonment after being charged with sedition when they put out a book blasting the world empire of false religion for her involvement with war, revealing her bloodguilt for those who were losing their lives. They were then exonerated from
Snarky...you've gotta be a stubborn Irishman or something!!!...lol. Every major doctrine you are teaching originates from paganism and or witchcraft or spiritism of sorts!!! Read what 2 Corinthians 6: 14-17 has to say about practising such things and sitting at the table of Jehovah. Promise me you will read this and consider carefully what it says.
celebrate christmas. Have you ever revealed your deep feelings to a close personal friend? Do you remember sometimes how intense it can be, sometimes even resulting in tears on your part? This is how we should approach Jehovah when we pray..just like talking to your closest friend and hold nothing back, because he is our closest friend and he loves us dearly. If you approach him that way and ask him deeply from your heart to use his spirit to direct you to do the right thing..he will answer you.
HE DID 11/17/1003 10:35 pm I was born again. God gave me newness in life. I was forever forgiven of my sins and he gave me a new heart with new desires. The old was gone, behold all things were made new.
In all seriousness I was made a new creation in Christ. Jesus is my shepherd. I hear His voice and He knows me. He is closer than a brother as His word says.
Have you considered that the angels were not singing praises or celebrating his birth, but rather the arrival of mankind's redeemer? Have you considered that what the angels held of importance was not the birth of Jesus, but rather the fulfillment of God's word regarding his "seed" and the crushing of the head of the "serpent"? As I've suggested, you should approach Jehovah in deeply heart felt prayer regarding this celebration and ask him to help you make the right decision as to continuing to
Again, birthdays are deeply rooted in paganism and witchcraft. Jesus would not have celebrated them. In our day, it hasn't changed.It's still celebrated on Dec.25 and still involves exchanging of gifts and drunken revelries, or have you never been to a christmas party? It's commendable that you are taking doctrinal origins into consideration, because Jesus would never involve himself in anything that had roots in witchcraft, worship of false gods, etc., and I think deep down inside you know that
Would you say I was wrong if I wanted to celebrate the birth of Jesus. I would sing song of praise, everything would bring praise and glory to God. It doesn't have to be on a certain day in particular.
@TheSnarkyApologist Snarky it wouldn't be right for me to tell you "you're wrong". All I can do is point out the origins of it and have you ask yourself..if it's roots are in paganism and Jesus and the apostles didn't celebrate it, therefore not showing it as any importance, should I be celebrating it? Would Jesus celebrate it knowing it had roots to paganism and witchcraft? Would Jesus involve himself in a practice that might displease his heavenly Father?
@TheSnarkyApologist No Snarky..as I mentioned before, do you really think you would have Jehovah's approval if you were exercising a practise which has its roots deeply imbedded not just into paganism but also witchcraft? I can't answer that for you. You have to consider all the evidence and make that decision for yourself as you are a free moral agent with the right to choose what is or isn't displeasing to God. It's certainly something I wouldn't practise. Ask yourself this..Is my standing
@badwingduck1 before my creator worth taking the chance of sacrificing by practising a pagan based holiday that he more than likely does not approve of? And as a self proclaimed teacher of God's word, should I be encouraging others to practise it and thereby risk their good standing and spiritual well being before their creator as well? You need to take this in prayer to Jehovah very seriously and ask for his spirit to direct you to make the right decision and do the right thing.
@TheSnarkyApologist Remember this, that Jehovah is merciful, gracious, forgiving, loving, and tenderly merciful. Whether you are one of his people or not, he will hear you if you approach him with a deeply heartfelt desire and a view to doing the right thing and a view to making whatever changes are necessary to stop doing things that are displeasing to him. That's why we need to approach him humbly, with deep sincerety and with an open mind and heart.
I hate to tell you this Snarky, but before you share truth with J.W.s, you have to have some, and I don't mean teachings such as trinity, immortality of the soul, symbols of the cross or any other pagan based doctrine.
@TheSnarkyApologist Such as Christmas (held every year on Dec.25 of the Roman calendar in honor of the Sun god Saturnalia..involved the exchanging of gifts and drunken revelries)(sound familiar?) Easter ( originated in ancient babylon involving the fertility(egg represents female fertility) goddess Semiramis-wife of Nimrod&mother of Tamuz- later called Ishtar) Halloween?? I don't think I need to explain that one..pretty self explanatory. Isn't it strange that all your main doctrinal teachings
@TheSnarkyApologist are centered around and take their roots from paganism, witchcraft, worship of false gods, fertility rites which you even allow your children to practice, etc? These are no doubt "expressions inspired of demons" because demons are their origin. When you look at them honestly, shouldn't you feel a deep concern?
Now, is it better to follow the traditions of wild debauchery at Christmas as you put it, OR PERHAPS to Celebrate the Birth of our Savior?
Would someone running AGAINST the grain of wild debauchery and revelry be condemned because they FOUGHT to convert that event to a birth celebration of Christ?
@TheSnarkyApologist I apologize Snarky, I don't mean to embarass you here, but the facts are the facts right? I understand what you are trying to say about christmas, but there is no scriptural or historical basis that shows that either Jesus, his disciples or the true early christians celebrated his birthday. His death was important, and another matter. "Eat, drink, keep on doing this in remembrance of me" (Nisan 14th Jewish calendar at sundown). This is a scriptural command from Jesus himself.
@TheSnarkyApologist As someone who claims to be teaching bible truth, would one want to be making excuses for pagan doctrine in order to build the membership within our beliefs as the Catholic church and Pope Constantine did in 384 A.D.? Paganism is not of God and neither is its doctrines.
I glanced at that one quickly, so you may be right. I'll have to check it again, however, it was obviously an approved ceremony as the covenant people of Israel were permitted to use it, and so were the early christians. That would have been a ceremony therefore that was sanctioned and permitted by Jehovah himself. Also, there was no false worship or spiritistic practices involved with it, and that's a huge consideration as opposed to say birthdays.
LET ME TELL YOU BUDDIES...the jehovah's witnesses is a fanatical cult. This is FACT from one who was brainwashed into their fanatical dogma from birth. They are a dangerous group. This cult destroys lives, families! The only difference between them and the taliban, are the guns and bombs. The jehovah's witnesses weapons are their brainwashing skills. The watchtower, bible and track society decides what dogma to teach and the people are brainwashed into believing the SHIT is the truth. EVIL
The jehovah's witnesses are an insidious cult of fanatics. They are like the taliban, instead of guns and bombs to spread their religious dogma, they have perfected brainwashing. So many lives have been ruined by them. EXPOSE THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE...EVIL
Ok, ok, will all the Bible thumping people stand up and tell me why it is that you can take one or two scriptures to try and prove your point, but quietly leave out all the interesting ones in the Old Testament? Hey, the really cool ones, like going out and circumcising you dead enemys and bringing home their foreskins for a trophy for your future wife, to please your new father in law and show him how brave you are.... Hmm? I guess it must make sense but I missed the point somewhere.. comments?
@91fatboy51 The small part you missed was the cultural aspects of THAT specific time. And how things were understood in relation to other people groups and covenants. For instance the 10 Commandments were a summarization of a treaty used by other people group prior to Israel.
A thorough understanding takes study of more than a few comments this video allows.
Sort of like asking me to have you explain how quantum physics and strings theories work in synergism.
@meshel2012 oh I totally agree they are a cult....but they believe they are doing Gods work when in all reality they are doing the devils...hopefully all jw will come to know the TRUE JESUS CHRIST! Before its to late !
@Jesransam First, they are not a cult and the only reason anyone would use that word is 1) as an insult 2)jealousy and 3)envy. You also sound like a trinitarian, so I would suggest that you google search "origin of the trinity" and click on "from paganism to Constantine", and read what the archaeologists and historians tell us there about their actual findings on the teaching of the trinity and its origins. Then call J.W.s a cult.
That JW's are called a cult is not meant as a personal insult to individual JW's. The modern definition of cult refers to any group that uses manipulative psychological “Mind Control” techniques to recruit and control their members. This is clearly in evidence among JW's. The bible is interpreted for you and before you can be baptised you are asked if you agree with all the doctrines unique to JW's (subject to change of course).
It is insulting when the WT publication refers to those who leave as apostates and mentally diseased. Those attacks are personal and can hurt those who have left. When those on the outside say you are part of a cult they are not attacking you personally, using abusive language as the WT does. Describing you as a cult member is simply telling you that you have been tricked into joining and coerced into staying, it says nothing about you personally. Matthew 5:22.
@starfillednights Thank you...I appreciated your post and I can tell that you are a reasonable person. The attitude on some of these sites towards Jehovah's witnesses is almost of a mob mentality and I think by what you've written in your posts that you can see that...good discernment. Jehovah's witnesses are very far from being a cult. They are a principled people and an intelligent nation of people. That is far from a cult. If you ever have the chance to actually sit with them and enter into
@starfillednights discussion with them, you will find that they are a very refined, law abiding, kind and considerate people. Their very being is based on the christian law of love. Jesus said that we should love our neighbour as ourselves and also that we should love even our enemies. Jehovah's witnesses adhere to that scriptural law. When they knock on your door...they do this out of love for their neighbour. As Jehovah said...he doesn't with for anyone to lose their right to life and neither
I freely acknowledge all the qualities you mentioned are evident among some JW's,not all though.My mother is a JW, I know she is sincere in her beliefs.I have first hand knowledge of how most JW's have been "tricked into joining."For instance, about six months ago I stumbled upon one unique teaching of the JW's.Jesus is not their mediator, he is mediator for only the 144,000.My mother was not made aware of that fact when she was studying nearly 30 years ago, she only found out when I told her!
Also, many sincere people have left the JW organisation and continue to worship God and put faith in his Son, but these individuals can be called apostates and family members are told to shun them. This is unchristian behaviour and causes many to fear leaving when their personal bible study causes them to interpret scriptures differently to the WT. This is how they are "coerced into staying."
@starfillednights I have been disfellowshipped for about 20 yrs. but I do not blame it on Jehovah, his organization or his people...I blame myself...I knew what his requirements were, and I chose to disobey them. There is no one else to blame except me. Disfellowshipping is not a nice situation, however, it is according to the apostle Paul's 1st letter to the congregation in Corinthia a scriptural matter. However in his 2nd letter to them, if a person shows genuine remorse for wrongdoing, there
The congregations back then were to remove the "wicked" from their midst. There was the case of the man who slept with his fathers wife, and did so openly it would seem and without remorse. Who could argue with removing such a man? I am sure there are some disfellowshiped for similar wicked acts. Many though are disfellowshiped simply for disagreeing with WT doctrine, even though they have great faith in the Father and the Son.
@starfillednights This is a good reasonable point you've brought up and it deserves a proper and reasonable answer. It's a thing many have referred to here as "independant thinking". There is nothing wrong with independant thinking, and in fact almost all of Jehovah's witnesses think extremely independantly. In fact if you search utube 'a preview of the new world" you will find a very good example of it. However, although her thinking was independant, she stuck to scriptural theme and scriptural
@starfillednights thinking. It's not the independant thinking that's wrong in itself...it's when the independant thinking strays away from scriptural teaching that is wrong. When one's thinking becomes contrary to bible teaching, then it is necessary to remove that person from the christian congregation if necessary so that others do not adhere to unscriptural teachings.
@starfillednights I apologize...I've lost you on this one..too many posts required here without enough room to reply to questions properly. You'll need to be more specific as to requirements of what.
@badwingduck1 I'm sorry starfillednights..nice handle by the way..a thinking persons synonym....but I'm a little lost in cyberspace here I think...lol. I'm having trouble following you right now. Try again please.
One common example. To become a JW you must give up birthday celebrations even though there is no command within the entirety of the scriptures for Christians to do so. Christians have freedom in such matters. "One [man] judges one day as above another; another [man] judges one day as all others; let each [man] be fully convinced in his own mind." Romans 14:5
@starfillednights I think I found you currently again...lol. This again is a thinking persons question. May I ask you this? If you loved Jehovah, and even if there is no direct mention of violation of his law, but the law you are considering might be connected to paganism...would you want to risk displeasing him? If you thought that it might be dispicable to him , would you want to practice it anyway and take the chance of losing his favor? The early christians did not practice it.
Glad you found me! Forgive me for saying this but what you have stated is typical Watchtower logic and unscriptural. Many things are said to be connected to paganism. For instance are you aware that even baptism has its roots in ancient Babylon and Egypt, even circumcision is thought to have pagan origins. I suppose what i am saying is that pagan roots does not make a practice displeasing to YHWH. If your everlasting life was at stake it would have been mentioned, but it's not.
The idea that birthday celebrations are an ‘idolizing’ of the person is an unrealistic categorisation. Couples who celebrate a wedding anniversary are not idolizing themselves nor idolizing their marriage. Like so many other things, it is the way in which things are done, the spirit shown, and this can vary widely. Nowhere in the Scriptures is there any indication of God’s disapproval of birthday celebrations. They are silent in that respect. It is a case of men presuming to know God’s thinking.
@starfillednights ahah!!! there you are!!...lol. I will have to google search what you said and see if what you are saying is true. Historians and archaeologists are not stupid. However, scripturally as far as everlastring life is concerned..your not quite right there, but that is another discussion. I can prove it to you scripturally that this is what Jehovah has promised us. I will direct you to what the bible says concerning this, but we'll need to stick to the subject.
@starfillednights The only birthday celebrations mentioned in the bible were practiced by pagan nations, and they all resulted in tradgedy for Jehovah's people. It is a known fact amongst historians that neither Jesus, his apostles or the true early christians celebrated birthdays. My conscience, because I wish not to do what is displeasing to God, tells me not to celebrate them.
Using that logic then, as an illustration, let's say that the Scriptures had no reference to marriage feasts other than marriage feasts held by two pagans or non-Christians (perhaps even with some coincidental drunkenness or immorality occurring)would that make marriage feasts something wrong, unfit for Christians?
@starfillednights Gotcha again..lol. The answer is this. The bible shows that Jesus himself celebrated marriages, however there was no immorality involved as that would be displeasing to his heavenly father. We are supposed to be christians which litterally tanslated means "like Christ". Therefore, as christians, we would not want to be involved with immoral practices.We can celebrate this with a clean conscience because our Maste did. So now we have to ask ourselves...if Jesus celebrated
@badwingduck1 I took the extra time to search circumcision and baptism on my puter. You almost had me..lol..except for one thing. Both practices originated amongst God's original covenant people...THE JEWS. No pagan origin there, however it did spread from the jews who were God's covenant people to the pagan nations. That is different, though than originating from the pagans...totally different, as it was already approved by the true God and it is also scriptural.
@starfillednights these things can we? Of course we can, but only with the view that we need to stay loyal to him and our creator Jehovah, meaning that we would not indulge in drunkeness or immorality. If it occurs with others around us, then we should as christians, excuse ourselves politely and walk away.
As far as I'm aware there was no rule within the mosaic law forbidding birthdays. Either way Christians are not under law. We know the early Jewish Christians imposed circumcision upon the gentile Christians, perhaps they imposed their ban on birthdays too? It seems logical. I don't know why your conscience is bothered by birthdays but I would like to ask you if your conscience is affected as you go about your day using the Gregorian calendar, with its days and months named after pagan gods?
@starfillednights LMAO...Funny you brought that up because I remember a brother at an assembly doing a public discourse that dealt exactly with the fact that not only the months, but also the days of the week being named after pagan gods. However, as Jesus said in the first part of John 17:15 "I request you not to take them out of the world..." Obviously we live in the world and are affected by it christian or not. We are not scripturally expected to lose track of time...lol. I think you are
@starfillednights splitting hairs here somewhat and just like the Jews who made the accusation against Jesus that he was claiming to be God, you are doing the same to me..them so they could stone him and prove him wrong, and me just to try to prove that what I am saying to you is wrong. Everything I have spoken to you here tonight I back with scripture. Have you even bothered to look them up in your own bible to know if they are true or not?
@badwingduck1 The Pharisees where the ones who put burdens on the people, a bit like the GB do with the JW's today. Like I've said, it's nothing against you personally. You have presented your interpretation of the scriptures as have I. Though you have not yet provided an adequate explanation as to why Christians cannot celebrate their birthdays. When the apostles said they would add no further burden the GB thought otherwise.
@starfillednights Thank you for being kind and reasonable. I appreciate it. People who are on here tend to act like a rabid mob if they know you have a J.W. background and you would not believe how many posts I have had to answer. I feel as Jesus did when the Jews made accusations against him so they could have an excuse to stone him. However, it's all good because it's been 20 yrs. for me and it helps me remember what I thought I could never remember..lol. I've probably forgotten more about
@starfillednights what the bible teaches than most on here will ever know in their lifetimes. The main reason J.W.s do not celebrate birthdays other than the fact that the early christians didn't is because the only 3 times they were mentioned in the bible, they resulted in tradgedy for God's people, including John the Baptist, and if I remember right, birthdays come from pagan backgrounds. However, I will search google on the origin of birthdays and get back to you to make sure about that.
@starfillednights Whoa!!! That didn't take very long...lol...I just checked out the origin of birthdays and it originates with witchcraft...lololol...thanx but no thanx, you can celebrate them if you want to, but I sure won't. As soon as I saw witchcraft involvment I didn't bother reading anymore...you can check it out yourself...origin of birthdays on search.
@starfillednights UUUmmmmm...I think that before I answer this one...you had best do a puter search on the origin of birthdays...lol. I think after you read that, you'll find that the GB wasn't putting any unnecessary burdens at all...lol.
@starfillednights Not true...it originated with early Israel, which means it had God's approval and spread from there to the pagan nations. Again...search your puter and you'll find it.
@starfillednights Lets end the discussion for the night . it is 4:30 here...lol. A.M. You said your mom is a J.W. This is good, because she now has a hope for a future, something this world severely lacks. So I will quote you scriptures that prove that her hope is very real. Go to sleep and pick this up in the A. M., because I will be looking up scripture in the bible and it will take a little time.Then read them and see for yourself. Unless you have no desire for God's kingdom to be established
@badwingduck1 "This is good, because she now has a hope for a future, something this world severely lacks" All those who place their hope in Him will not be disappointed. We should not place our trust in a man made religious organisations with corrupt leaders who teach that Jesus is not the mediator for the world but only a select 144,000. This is a lie and it take the glory away from our Lord and gives it to man, to whom no salvation belongs. Psalms 146:3.
Flesh and blood will not inherit God's kingdom. When the Christ arrives in his glory and the angels with him he will say to those on his right "inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world" how will you be able to enter this kingdom with your flesh & blood body?
@starfillednights on the earth, you will have to agree with them as a reasonable person..Rev. 11:18 latter part says that those "ruining the earth will themselves be brought to ruin".. Isaiah45:18 middle part "the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the one who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to ge inhabited"...Isaiah 33:24 "And no resident will say I am sick"..Isaiah 65:21&22 says in part.."They will not build and someone else have
@starfillednights occupancy". I could go on and on if I wanted to. What a wonderful hope for mankind and our future. This is God's promise to us...and it WILL BE FULFILLED!!!
As most Christians are aware those scriptures refer to the restoration of Israel to their homeland and have nothing to do with the future paradise earth JW's expect. Paradise in the scriptures is in heaven. 2 Cor 12:2-4. The earth, indeed the universe will not exist forever, it is scientifically impossible. YHWH made the universe and the physical laws that govern it. The universe is expanding and will in many eons go dark. Research the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
The scriptures agree with this view. "They themselves will perish, but you yourself will keep standing; And just like a garment they will all of them wear out. Just like clothing you will replace them, and they will finish their turn." Psalm 102:26.
@starfillednights If this were true, could you tell me what Revelations 21"1-5 refers to??? You are basing your trust in man made theory. The bible tells us at Psalms 146:3 "Do not put your trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man to whom no salvation belongs". Jehovah did indeed create the universe and the physical laws that govern it just as you say, so this is what he had to say regarding the earth at Isaiah 45:18 and read this from your own bible:"For this is what Jehovah has said,
The new Earth will be nothing like the physical earth we have today, the scriptures often use hyperbole as it impossible for our minds to comprehend the reality of what awaits us. Ask yourself, if flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom how do you as a Jehovah's Witnesses expect to inherit everlasting life in God's kingdom?
@starfillednights Flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom..in the heavens, however, the earthly kingdom which we pray for in the Lord's prayer is a different story. Besides, if about 6 or 7 billion people go up there...what are they going to do up there..rule as kings??? If so, and there is no one on the earth, what or whom are they going to rule over?
The new Heaven & Earth are nothing like most envisage. The number of people who have ever lived is in excess of 107 billion. There would be no room on this earth for that many people. Nor would there be enough land area to produce food for that many people. The logistics of it are a nightmare. It certainly wouldn't be like the paradise pictures presented to you by the WT. The fact is that the term "paradise earth" does not appear in the entire bible.
@starfillednights Cool...but did you know that they have already figured out that they could take the present world's population and stand them all shoulder to shoulder and fit them inside the state of Texas and still have room? Besides Jehovah put the desire in us to procreate and if he wanted to he could remove it without harm. Also man can send spacecraft to the stars now, so why did he create such a vast universe? Who's to say that he won't point to the stars and show us how to get there?
@badwingduck1 Well I will wait on the Father to reveal whatever future blessings he has in store. It does no good to speculate or to interpret the scriptures to fit our preconceived ideas. The WT does that a lot and finds itself having to change understandings all the time. The generations teaching as an example. When my mother was studying she was told armageddon was a few years away because the generation which saw 1914 were nearly all dead. The world is still here.
@starfillednights I believe that it's possible that your mother was told that it would end soon, and according to known chronology, 1975 was the end of 6000 yrs. of proven written history, however, too many people jumped to their own conclusions that it would usher in Armageddon and that's not true. No wonder so many fell away after, however this was foretold by Jesus when he said that the evil slave would say "my master has delayed". Jehovah has his appointed time of which even the gb admits
@starfillednights that they do not know the day or hour and always have stood by that. I think the generation Jesus was talking about since 1914 was not the 80 yr. one that the scriptures talk about but there was another one of 120 yrs. which takes us right to 2034. That's the one where Jehovah met with the angels and said mans lifespan was too long and he would shorten it to 120 yrs.
What happens if the end you believe in does not come between now and 2034? "He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them."(Luke 21:8)
The WT has been saying ‘The due time has approached' since it's inception.
@starfillednights Lol...had a feeling you wouldn't quit. I remember a scripture, but believe it or not I forget where it is...lol. It's the one where the apostles said to Jesus "but Lord, you have sayings of everlasting life, where else are we to go to?" Well, if there is no everlasting life as promised, then it doesn't matter anymore and then I will believe that there is no God because there will be nowhere else to go. That's not likely to happen though, and with world affairs being the way
“It does not belong to YOU to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction." Look what false prophesying has done to discredit Christianity, causing many to stumble. I am keeping in expectation of the day of the Lord. It can come at anytime, my faith is not shaken if it does not come in my lifetime or in the next thousand million years. If a person has their faith fixed on the foundation, which is Christ, there is nowhere else they need go.
@starfillednights Listen kid...ya gotta slow down..I'm gettin' old...lol..to a point I agree with what you say here, however, Jesus gave us all the signs of his presence which have occured since 1914..nation rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom (war on a world wide scale of which we've seen 2), increase in earthquakes, food shortages, disease and the disgusting standing in a holy place(the United Nations because they claim to be the only hope for mankind for peace on earth and only
Daniel 4 says nothing of future fulfilment of the 7 times prophecy, the interpretation was given and it was Nebuchadnezzar represented by the tree. In other prophecies of Daniel it is clearly stated there would be a future fulfilment, not so in Daniel 4. In order for the GB to hang onto the 1914 year they have to ignore all available evidence showing that their 607 date for the destruction of Jerusalem is wrong.
@starfillednights Possibly, I don't know enough about it to say whether you're right or wrong, however as I mentioned previously, even the apostles and the prophets made mistakes, because even though they were guided by God's spirit, they were still imperfect men. Same for the GB. They would be the first to admit they are imperfect and make mistakes and I've heard them say so at assemblies in the past.
Well I do not judge them personally but the scriptures say to "test the inspired expression because many false prophets have gone out into the world." So each of us have that mandate.
@starfillednights To test anything that you are told is scriptural is the right thing to do. Paul commended one of the congregations for verifying everything he had taught them and not just taking his word for it. Hmm. been up all night. Breakfast time over here. What part of the world do you live in?...I'll be right over for dinner...lol.
@starfillednights God's kingdom can bring peace on earth so they are therefore disgusting in their claims, and they cannot replace God's kingdom) and in 2 Timothy..children being disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, fierce, puffed up with pride, headstrong, not open to any agreement, etc. etc. So we are definitely there. In fact if Jehovah doesn't step in soon, we'll all be in trouble. Trust me..it will be in our lifetime. How soon?..who knows? It's close!
@starfillednights they are, if it doesn't happen, then we are all in trouble, so it won't matter. One more thing...so you know that the promise is a paradise on EARTH and not heaven...Psalms 37:11 which states "But the meek ones themselves will possess THE EARTH, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." There is certainly no interpretation to be made on that one my friend..lol. Hope to see you there...and your mom too.
The scriptures should be harmonious so I do not personally understand this scripture to be speaking about a future fulfilment other than that which was fulfilled in the days of Israel. The hebrew word for EARTH can also be translated LAND. This how most Christian denominations and indeed the Jews understand that passage of scripture. The Israelites were indeed restored to their LAND and enjoyed a period of peace. Whatever God has in store for us in the future I am sure it will be amazing.
@starfillednights My best answer for you to this is to read Isaiah 11:6-9. I don't think this is describing heaven as animals won't be in heaven. Also I'm too lazy right now to look it up but the bible states that "no one will wake up and say "I am sick"". and "no one will build a home and someone else have occupancy". Obviously an earthly hope. Also the "mountains will overflow with wheat". Please stop reading into the scriptures what is not there. the meek shall inherit the Earth.
@badwingduck1 Jehovah also said that he did not create the earth simply for nothing, but that he created it "even to be inhabited". That sounds like earth to me...not heaven.
There are so many problems with the JW interpretation, it's hard to know exactly where to begin. As I have clearly shown from the scriptures, this earth will eventually (I don't know when) no longer exist. It will ware out.
Because JW's begin with a false assumption, namely that God intended for Adam and his offspring to live on the earth literally forever they get everything else wrong. Christians have known for 2000 years God's basic plan, even though they do not know exactly every detail. Even the patriarchs had some understanding. Hebrews 11:16 "Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them."
@starfillednights This scripture is talking about the 144,000 who will rule with Christ as kings in the heavenly gov't. which will rule the earth over the 1,000 yr. reign. If your belief is that EVERYONE will go to heaven to rule with him, over whom are they going to rule if there is no one on earth??
@starfillednights In reply re the earth will wear out. I can't find it here to comment directly, so I'll answer here. That is directly in conflict with bible teaching. Make sure you read Psalms 104:5 from your own bible where it says "He has founded the earth upon its established places, It will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever!!!
@badwingduck1 You should also read psalms 37:29 which says "the righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it. The word used in the hebrew texts means earth and not land. You should not replace words scripturally in order to try to bring them into conformity with what you want to teach, but rather the other way around.
@starfillednights The due time is already here...we just don't know the day or hour...but we do know by world events that we are close. The WT has never given an exact day or hour for armageddon since its inception. Those are misunderstandings. I should know, as I have been in touch with them for about 55 yrs. Not misunderstandings on their part, but on the part of others, most who have gone on heresay and never even been a part of the WBTS.
There are many older publications over at wt archives dot com written by Russell and Rutherford, in which they specifically point to dates armageddon would occur. 1975 was a date also pushed forward by the GB, I know JW's today who acknowledge that fact. Many JW's though seem to have collective amnesia regarding these false dates they announced in advance. Jesus made it easy for us by instructing us to avoid those who come announcing "the due time has approached."
Now you are saying 2034. When will the JW GB ever learn? You do not get salvation associated to an organisation, if that were so Jesus would have told us. In John 10 he tells us that HE is the door, that we must go through him, that his sheep do not listen to ANOTHER voice, certainly not the hired man. "Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.” Acts 4:12.
@starfillednights What are you talking about? I'm talking chronology according to the maximum age that Jehovah allows us to live which is approximately 120 yrs!! You are a perfect example of those who have jumped to conclusions.
@starfillednights Not true..Never have they given a date for armageddon. No one knows the day or hour. We can only go by the last generation that Jesus spoke about since the end of the gentile times in 1914. Bible chronology can be very complicated and difficult and be misunderstood and the 6000 yr. written history of man may have been mistakenly dated, but certainly not armageddon. Even the governing body will be the first to admit that they are imperfect and can make mistakes. In fact the
The scripture simply reads "flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom" no distinction is made between an earthly and heavenly. The GB must make that distinction for that scripture to fit into their broken theology.
Also when Paul describes the resurrection of the dead he does not describe two separate types of resurrection for Christians. Also, if you are to be resurrected on the earth, why will you not marry? Jesus' words there pose great difficulty there for the JW understanding, I know they find that piece of the puzzle difficult to fit into the whole.
@starfillednights the Creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who DID NOT CREATE IT SIMPLY FOR NOTHING, WHO FORMED IT EVEN TO BE INHABITED..." Do you really think he will allow it to perish? You are now going to have to choose between man made theories or scriptural teaching.You either believe what the bible teaches, or you don't!!
Are you saying that this is a man made theory? (Psalm 102:26) . . .They themselves will perish, but you yourself will keep standing; And just like a garment they will all of them wear out. Just like clothing you will replace them, and they will finish their turn. . .
(Isaiah 51:6) 6 “Raise YOUR eyes to the heavens themselves, and look at the earth beneath. For the very heavens must be dispersed in fragments just like smoke, and like a garment the earth itself will wear out,. . .
@starfillednights This conforms to Rev 21:1-5 and is reference to the fact that he is making a new heavens...the establishment of God's kingdom in the heavens..and a new earth...the establishment of God's kingdom on the earth. That would be the casting out of Satan (the dragon) from the heavens, and the wiping out of the satanic political and false religious system of things on the earth which will be replaced with earth's original purpose....paradise.
@badwingduck1 I love Jehovah..I love you..I love my brothers in the truth. Jehovah loves me..he loves you..he loves his people. Because Jesus taught us to love your neighbours as yourself and even to love our enemies, as long as I think your life and the lives of people that you love are at stake I will continue to "preach the good news of God's kingdom throughout the earth" this is a kingdom that he has promised us.and it would be nice to have nice discussions with you forever.
@starfillednights I just realized something. When I said that Jehovah might refer us to the stars as anothe place to live...that is independant thinking. It's my own thoughts and they may be right or wrong. I am as a J.W. allowed to think this way, however, it is not something that is a scriptural fact. It is simply my own dependant thinking whether it is right or wrong. However if I try to enforce that way of thinking on others in the congregation, then I become apostate in my teachings. It is
@starfillednights I've lost you again...I apologize...another time perhaps? you had good questions, and with reason, they definitely should be answered. I think the page here is too filled up...I look forward to talking to you again.
@starfillednights is a recommendation for reinstatement. So I am cleaning up my life and returning to meetings with a strong view to repentance. As far as the mediator thing is concerned you may have misunderstood what was being said. Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. In fact we cannot approach Jehovah in prayer in reality without asking all things prayed for through his son as mediator. To this day anytime you hear one of Jehovah's people praying, such as at a meeting, you will
@starfillednights always hear the person leading the congregation in prayer ask all things in and through the name of Jesus Christ..Amen, thereby using and accepting Jesus Christ as our mediator.Where do people hear these things from anyway? The only way Jehovah is a mediator in the other sense that you mentioned is that he would not diredt us as individuals as concerns things that need to be revealed to the congregations.In the other situation he would use the faithful and discrete slave class.
"Through the new covenant, Jehovah makes bless- ings available to many by means of a few. Those in the covenant are few, a mere 144,000. Through them, millions from all nations will be blessed with everlasting life in an earthly paradise." WT March 1 2012 p17.
(Acts 4:12) . . .there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is NOT ANOTHER NAME under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”
@starfillednights This is correct. These ones are bought from amongst mankind with the blood of Jesus to rule with him as kings and form the peaceful heavenly gov't. which will rule over the earth, and who better than they, because they have experienced the problems that man has faced and no one could understand our problems better than them. The millions it talks about are the "great crowd which no man can number..these are my other sheep". These are those amongst mankind who have the earthly
@starfillednights hope of living eternally in perfect peace and health on the paradise earth. Think about it reasonably...if we all went to heaven and ruled with Jesus as kings as some religions teach...what would you do up there, and over whom would you rule?
@starfillednights do Jehovah's people. As Jehovah wishes all to take the road leading to life...so do his people. As Jehovah would hurt very deeply if someone loses their life because of disobedience to his laws and requirements...so do his people. Jesus spoke about a kingdom that would be set up on the earth ending all the terrible problems that mankind is faced with...death, war, sickness, disease, family breakup, etc. Jehovah's witnesses are advocators of that kingdom.The bible talks about us
@starfillednights being able to build our own homes and "no one else will take possession of them" . It even says that "no one will wake up and say..I am sick". These are just some of the promises that Jehovah has given us.
It's all over the world & not just JW's there is a shift in consciousness where man has finally seen through all these limitations of religion & are being enlightened in different ways as their is infinite ways to be enlightened other than religion, just doing what excites you is enlightening,Man is starting to learn what christ was teaching & that is freedom from judgement & awareness on a higher level is what life is about, peace, joy & love found within & not from a book
sluggfish 7 hours ago
@sluggfish
Matthew 16:26
What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?
Blessings!
TheSnarkyApologist 5 hours ago
@TheSnarkyApologist Where is it written or eeven proved that you forfeit your soul? the thing that most religion don't want to understand is Jesus did not live by a book of contradictions, NO he Knew that man created his reality through his beliefs & thoughts emotions without doubt, Christ didn't believe, HE KNEW which is deeper than belief itself & is felt at the heart of every man, no need for a book to replace the heart.God is all that is period, how else can god know of everything..cont
sluggfish 4 hours ago
if he is not part of it's creations, how could god know what happen to all, Only the meek shall inherit the earth, If you live like christ you will indeed inherit the earth,& that is live in the freedom without judgement, as god as is all that is is unconditional as christ was the son of god. Christ was not judgemental over .sinners.liers,murders. why? because he knew the bigger picture of all that is & it's part to each & everything in it, no judgement, it just is, mans ego needs be tamed.
sluggfish 3 hours ago
@TheSnarkyApologist, there is never an exchange for your soul it's your eternally , nothing, no one not even God can take that from You. than it would contradict god itself, When you say forfeit without having to read the bible, Matthew 16:26 is ego related as in letting your ego rule you, but no soul is forever ignorant, & one way or another will always yearn for the soul as a baby to it's mother's breast, the ego is what you can call satan, it take control of you if you are unaware, cont
sluggfish 3 hours ago
All that is(god) asks that you which whom it shows itself through for experience that you show responsibilty for your own conscious awareness, as in to be aware of the right choices that are always being given to you from within, however ignored by the ego for physical gain, which is no sin to god but a stepping stone for learning who you are,God does not put you on earth for you to ignore yourself, that in itself is a mockery of god, we have been given life to enjoy, & to be grateful to god
sluggfish 3 hours ago
@sluggfish
It's written in that book you say is full of contradictions!
You know which one, the one you are spending all your time and energy trying to dispell ; )
Try to stay ontask with the topic of this video or poof ; )
TheSnarkyApologist 1 hour ago
I studied with the JW for a few weeks,, I broke off from them when according to them JESUS is the Mighty God and JEHOVAH is the Almighty God Yet they claim there is only one God, JESUS is Michael The Archangel when in heaven, NOT to attend any other church, nor study any other religious materials, Trinity means three Gods and is of Pagan Origin, none of which is in the Bible...unconscionable liars !
Ekereku 2 days ago
@Ekereku
Many do lie. I have seen it first hand. Most are simply spiritually lost and NEED an organization to lead them. They CANNOT understand the things of God so what do they do? They change the words in the Bible and print their own to fit their doctrine!
Not toooo backwards huh?
1 Cor 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
TheSnarkyApologist 1 day ago
How can you be born again if you are teaching or practising things that are displeasing to Jehovah and that have the demonic roots that they have? Trinity, immortality of the soul, cross symbols, christmas, new years, valentine's day, birthdays, easter, halloween, I mean...let's get real..every one of them with backgrounds to either/or paganism, witchcraft, magic and idolatry!
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@badwingduck1
If it's displeasing Jehovah why did HE approve of them in 1919?
Here is what's going on my friend....
1 Cor 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The "org" couldn't understand God's Word, so they printed their own to make it fit what they wanted it to fit.
I will respect your choice however.
TheSnarkyApologist 1 day ago
@TheSnarkyApologist Snarky..I don't really need to answer this point...you have answered it yourself..again..look at the paganistic practices that you are teaching and/or celebrating and encouraging others to do..all originating from paganistic practices involving magic, witchcraft, satanism and idolatry. How can you say what you just said re W.T. when you insist on practicing these things? Is it not the very one who insists on practicing such things the one who is spiritually blinded???
badwingduck1 1 day ago
@badwingduck1
The point you missed my friend is this....the WT was involved in all those practices in 1919 right?
Answer: RIGHT!
Jesus checked all the religions of the world looking for the org that was doing it right. Right?
Answer: RIGHT!
Based on what the WT was doing HE was pleased, right?
Answer: RIGHT!
Question: What right does the WT have in STOPPING the things they were doing when they had Jehovah and Jesus' total approval?
Answer: They DON'T!
It's all about the MEN in NY
TheSnarkyApologist 1 day ago
@TheSnarkyApologist 1)Wrong..the WT was not involved in all those practices in 1919. I believe the only one left was the cross symbol and it was eliminated by 1929 immediately after research was completed and its background was revealed. 2)Wrong..Jesus knew the truth and formed his own organization and TAUGHT them to do it right. 3) Jehovah was not immediately pleased and it would take time to gain that approval depending on the efforts to eliminate the false religious influences remaining
badwingduck1 1 day ago
@badwingduck1
You NEVER believe me, but the fact of the matter is this....I know MORE about your organization than YOU do. Don't think that's a bad thing though.
Here's the fact's my friend...The organization was celebrating Christmas until 1926. That's PAST 1919, right?
If it's good enough for Jehovah, it's good enough for me!
Go watch my video going into more detail on this.
It's entitled...1919 - Why Quit A Good Thing?
Thanks!
Good luck
TheSnarkyApologist 1 day ago
@TheSnarkyApologist It may be good enough for you Bill, but it's not good enough for Jehovah and that's why once the research was done on it and it became knowledgeable that it was tied into paganism..a new truth emerged at that time and it was eliminated, thus continueing the cleaning up of the congregation and the distancing of itself from apostate christendom.
badwingduck1 1 day ago
@TheSnarkyApologist within the organization. History shows that he blessed those efforts. 3) If there were still false influences, no matter how minor, within the organization, they would need to be cleaned up as research and proper understandings were eventually revealed to them by Jehovah.
badwingduck1 1 day ago
@badwingduck1
No...wrong again my friend. You see when someone is making an inspection and they have criteria for judging, they don't say, "you failed all these points, but you have time to clean it up, just forget about MY list of criteria". See how foolish that is.
No, the fact remains that the WT was celebrating birthdays and giving presents, taught Jesus died on a cross, etc, etc,...
Jesus inspected them based on what they were doing, and gave them thumbs up!
TheSnarkyApologist 1 day ago
@TheSnarkyApologist Thumbs up only began when they began cleaning up their act and eliminating false teachings and separating themselves from wrong practices.
badwingduck1 1 day ago
@badwingduck1
are you humbly admitting that I was correct and you were wrong?
TheSnarkyApologist 1 day ago
@TheSnarkyApologist I'm afraid you've missed the point here somehow Bill. It's not a matter of who was right or wrong.Here is the whole point. Let's not forget that mankind was far removed from the truth of what the bible taught for roughly 1700 yrs. When Jehovah's people were thrown in prisons all over the world during WW1 for refusing to pick up arms, they removed the stains of bloodguilt from their hands that the clergy of christendom had on theirs. Of course they would receive God's approval
badwingduck1 1 day ago
@badwingduck1
you stated the WT did NOT get involved in Christmas Celebrations in 1919.
I stated that they DID!
Now...
are you going to humbly admitting that I was correct and you were wrong?
TheSnarkyApologist 17 hours ago
@TheSnarkyApologist for this. That's a given. However, they still needed to continue distancing themselves from Babylon the great, the world empire of false religion, by continuing to remove manmade doctrines from their practices. As the background of these practices became known to them through historical records, they were stopped.Thus Jehovah over a period of time revealed "new light" or new truth to his organization. and refined them.That's why it wasn't until 1939, after all these doctrines
badwingduck1 1 day ago
@badwingduck1
you stated the WT did NOT get involved in Christmas Celebrations in 1919.
I stated that they DID!
Now...
are you going to humbly admit that I was correct and you were wrong?
Let me see how humble you REALLY are. It's not a big deal to simply say you're wrong. I have done it before.
I want to teach you how to do it.
Humbleness is NOT a weakness but a strength.
Now, go ahead and say something like "you were right and I was wrong"....
TheSnarkyApologist 46 minutes ago
@TheSnarkyApologist were eliminated, he did not allow them to carry his name. This is similar to what will happen on the paradise earth during the thousand yr. reign. Although such things as sickness and death will be immediately removed from us, we will still need a period of time to develop our personalities and work towards perfection. That is not going to happen in an instant. That's what the thousand yr. reign is for. As the book of Revelations says, there will be a new book which will
badwingduck1 1 day ago
@TheSnarkyApologist teach us what Jehovah continues to require from us and teach us how to live in peace. Jehovah's people, although imperfect as individuals are already working towards that now by applying bible principles and Jehovah's laws to their everyday conduct. I'm afraid it's just not an overnight process, but something that has to be worked towards by obeying and loving Jehovah's laws and requirements.
badwingduck1 1 day ago
@TheSnarkyApologist Re approval in 1919, I believe this is in fullfillment of bible prophecy in Revelation where the 2 witnesses would be silenced for 3 1/2 days. During ww2 the president of the WTBS and seven other members of the GB were sentenced to 20yrs. imprisonment after being charged with sedition when they put out a book blasting the world empire of false religion for her involvement with war, revealing her bloodguilt for those who were losing their lives. They were then exonerated from
badwingduck1 1 day ago
@badwingduck1 all charges and released from prison 3 1/2 yrs. later in 1919, thus fullfilling the prophecy on the 2 witnesses.
badwingduck1 1 day ago
Snarky...you've gotta be a stubborn Irishman or something!!!...lol. Every major doctrine you are teaching originates from paganism and or witchcraft or spiritism of sorts!!! Read what 2 Corinthians 6: 14-17 has to say about practising such things and sitting at the table of Jehovah. Promise me you will read this and consider carefully what it says.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
celebrate christmas. Have you ever revealed your deep feelings to a close personal friend? Do you remember sometimes how intense it can be, sometimes even resulting in tears on your part? This is how we should approach Jehovah when we pray..just like talking to your closest friend and hold nothing back, because he is our closest friend and he loves us dearly. If you approach him that way and ask him deeply from your heart to use his spirit to direct you to do the right thing..he will answer you.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@badwingduck1
HE DID 11/17/1003 10:35 pm I was born again. God gave me newness in life. I was forever forgiven of my sins and he gave me a new heart with new desires. The old was gone, behold all things were made new.
In all seriousness I was made a new creation in Christ. Jesus is my shepherd. I hear His voice and He knows me. He is closer than a brother as His word says.
Many thanks and blessings!
Bill
TheSnarkyApologist 2 days ago
Have you considered that the angels were not singing praises or celebrating his birth, but rather the arrival of mankind's redeemer? Have you considered that what the angels held of importance was not the birth of Jesus, but rather the fulfillment of God's word regarding his "seed" and the crushing of the head of the "serpent"? As I've suggested, you should approach Jehovah in deeply heart felt prayer regarding this celebration and ask him to help you make the right decision as to continuing to
badwingduck1 2 days ago
Again, birthdays are deeply rooted in paganism and witchcraft. Jesus would not have celebrated them. In our day, it hasn't changed.It's still celebrated on Dec.25 and still involves exchanging of gifts and drunken revelries, or have you never been to a christmas party? It's commendable that you are taking doctrinal origins into consideration, because Jesus would never involve himself in anything that had roots in witchcraft, worship of false gods, etc., and I think deep down inside you know that
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@badwingduck1
Would you say I was wrong if I wanted to celebrate the birth of Jesus. I would sing song of praise, everything would bring praise and glory to God. It doesn't have to be on a certain day in particular.
What would be wrong for me to do that?
TheSnarkyApologist 2 days ago
@TheSnarkyApologist Snarky it wouldn't be right for me to tell you "you're wrong". All I can do is point out the origins of it and have you ask yourself..if it's roots are in paganism and Jesus and the apostles didn't celebrate it, therefore not showing it as any importance, should I be celebrating it? Would Jesus celebrate it knowing it had roots to paganism and witchcraft? Would Jesus involve himself in a practice that might displease his heavenly Father?
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@badwingduck1
So then we both agree it would be acceptable for me to celebrate the glorious birth of Jesus my Lord and Savior correct?
TheSnarkyApologist 2 days ago
@TheSnarkyApologist No Snarky..as I mentioned before, do you really think you would have Jehovah's approval if you were exercising a practise which has its roots deeply imbedded not just into paganism but also witchcraft? I can't answer that for you. You have to consider all the evidence and make that decision for yourself as you are a free moral agent with the right to choose what is or isn't displeasing to God. It's certainly something I wouldn't practise. Ask yourself this..Is my standing
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@badwingduck1 before my creator worth taking the chance of sacrificing by practising a pagan based holiday that he more than likely does not approve of? And as a self proclaimed teacher of God's word, should I be encouraging others to practise it and thereby risk their good standing and spiritual well being before their creator as well? You need to take this in prayer to Jehovah very seriously and ask for his spirit to direct you to make the right decision and do the right thing.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@badwingduck1
I will respect your right to refuse to celebrate Jesus birth. (The angels sand and gave praise, which is good enough for me)
If you can respect my right to give him honor praise and glory.
Then I guess we are fine right ; )
TheSnarkyApologist 2 days ago
@TheSnarkyApologist Remember this, that Jehovah is merciful, gracious, forgiving, loving, and tenderly merciful. Whether you are one of his people or not, he will hear you if you approach him with a deeply heartfelt desire and a view to doing the right thing and a view to making whatever changes are necessary to stop doing things that are displeasing to him. That's why we need to approach him humbly, with deep sincerety and with an open mind and heart.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
Well..it's 11 A.M. here...gotta get some sleep tonight today...lol
badwingduck1 2 days ago
I hate to tell you this Snarky, but before you share truth with J.W.s, you have to have some, and I don't mean teachings such as trinity, immortality of the soul, symbols of the cross or any other pagan based doctrine.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@badwingduck1
such as....
TheSnarkyApologist 2 days ago
@TheSnarkyApologist Such as Christmas (held every year on Dec.25 of the Roman calendar in honor of the Sun god Saturnalia..involved the exchanging of gifts and drunken revelries)(sound familiar?) Easter ( originated in ancient babylon involving the fertility(egg represents female fertility) goddess Semiramis-wife of Nimrod&mother of Tamuz- later called Ishtar) Halloween?? I don't think I need to explain that one..pretty self explanatory. Isn't it strange that all your main doctrinal teachings
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@TheSnarkyApologist are centered around and take their roots from paganism, witchcraft, worship of false gods, fertility rites which you even allow your children to practice, etc? These are no doubt "expressions inspired of demons" because demons are their origin. When you look at them honestly, shouldn't you feel a deep concern?
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@badwingduck1
I see your point and point well taken.
Now, is it better to follow the traditions of wild debauchery at Christmas as you put it, OR PERHAPS to Celebrate the Birth of our Savior?
Would someone running AGAINST the grain of wild debauchery and revelry be condemned because they FOUGHT to convert that event to a birth celebration of Christ?
TheSnarkyApologist 2 days ago
@TheSnarkyApologist I apologize Snarky, I don't mean to embarass you here, but the facts are the facts right? I understand what you are trying to say about christmas, but there is no scriptural or historical basis that shows that either Jesus, his disciples or the true early christians celebrated his birthday. His death was important, and another matter. "Eat, drink, keep on doing this in remembrance of me" (Nisan 14th Jewish calendar at sundown). This is a scriptural command from Jesus himself.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@TheSnarkyApologist As someone who claims to be teaching bible truth, would one want to be making excuses for pagan doctrine in order to build the membership within our beliefs as the Catholic church and Pope Constantine did in 384 A.D.? Paganism is not of God and neither is its doctrines.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
I glanced at that one quickly, so you may be right. I'll have to check it again, however, it was obviously an approved ceremony as the covenant people of Israel were permitted to use it, and so were the early christians. That would have been a ceremony therefore that was sanctioned and permitted by Jehovah himself. Also, there was no false worship or spiritistic practices involved with it, and that's a huge consideration as opposed to say birthdays.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
It should be left to the individual conscience not imposed.
starfillednights 2 days ago
no one man has ever claimed to be the faithful and discreet slave it is a collective group. wake up!!!!!
ianiig 1 week ago
God bless you. I was a JW thirty plus years now Christan Freedom is wonderful.
tugaman1000 1 week ago
@tugaman1000 woo hoo...GOOD for you my friend!!!
TheSnarkyApologist 1 week ago
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LET ME TELL YOU BUDDIES...the jehovah's witnesses is a fanatical cult. This is FACT from one who was brainwashed into their fanatical dogma from birth. They are a dangerous group. This cult destroys lives, families! The only difference between them and the taliban, are the guns and bombs. The jehovah's witnesses weapons are their brainwashing skills. The watchtower, bible and track society decides what dogma to teach and the people are brainwashed into believing the SHIT is the truth. EVIL
jonathonlb 1 week ago
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The jehovah's witnesses are an insidious cult of fanatics. They are like the taliban, instead of guns and bombs to spread their religious dogma, they have perfected brainwashing. So many lives have been ruined by them. EXPOSE THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE...EVIL
thetruth666ish 2 weeks ago
Ok, ok, will all the Bible thumping people stand up and tell me why it is that you can take one or two scriptures to try and prove your point, but quietly leave out all the interesting ones in the Old Testament? Hey, the really cool ones, like going out and circumcising you dead enemys and bringing home their foreskins for a trophy for your future wife, to please your new father in law and show him how brave you are.... Hmm? I guess it must make sense but I missed the point somewhere.. comments?
91fatboy51 3 weeks ago
@91fatboy51 The small part you missed was the cultural aspects of THAT specific time. And how things were understood in relation to other people groups and covenants. For instance the 10 Commandments were a summarization of a treaty used by other people group prior to Israel.
A thorough understanding takes study of more than a few comments this video allows.
Sort of like asking me to have you explain how quantum physics and strings theories work in synergism.
See what I mean?
TheSnarkyApologist 2 weeks ago
@meshel2012 oh I totally agree they are a cult....but they believe they are doing Gods work when in all reality they are doing the devils...hopefully all jw will come to know the TRUE JESUS CHRIST! Before its to late !
Jesransam 3 weeks ago
@Jesransam First, they are not a cult and the only reason anyone would use that word is 1) as an insult 2)jealousy and 3)envy. You also sound like a trinitarian, so I would suggest that you google search "origin of the trinity" and click on "from paganism to Constantine", and read what the archaeologists and historians tell us there about their actual findings on the teaching of the trinity and its origins. Then call J.W.s a cult.
badwingduck1 1 week ago
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@badwingduck1 isnt it funny the trinity was believed long before Constantine yup the JWs are a cult
protiebuster 1 week ago
That JW's are called a cult is not meant as a personal insult to individual JW's. The modern definition of cult refers to any group that uses manipulative psychological “Mind Control” techniques to recruit and control their members. This is clearly in evidence among JW's. The bible is interpreted for you and before you can be baptised you are asked if you agree with all the doctrines unique to JW's (subject to change of course).
starfillednights 3 days ago
It is insulting when the WT publication refers to those who leave as apostates and mentally diseased. Those attacks are personal and can hurt those who have left. When those on the outside say you are part of a cult they are not attacking you personally, using abusive language as the WT does. Describing you as a cult member is simply telling you that you have been tricked into joining and coerced into staying, it says nothing about you personally. Matthew 5:22.
starfillednights 3 days ago
@starfillednights Thank you...I appreciated your post and I can tell that you are a reasonable person. The attitude on some of these sites towards Jehovah's witnesses is almost of a mob mentality and I think by what you've written in your posts that you can see that...good discernment. Jehovah's witnesses are very far from being a cult. They are a principled people and an intelligent nation of people. That is far from a cult. If you ever have the chance to actually sit with them and enter into
badwingduck1 3 days ago
@starfillednights discussion with them, you will find that they are a very refined, law abiding, kind and considerate people. Their very being is based on the christian law of love. Jesus said that we should love our neighbour as ourselves and also that we should love even our enemies. Jehovah's witnesses adhere to that scriptural law. When they knock on your door...they do this out of love for their neighbour. As Jehovah said...he doesn't with for anyone to lose their right to life and neither
badwingduck1 3 days ago
I freely acknowledge all the qualities you mentioned are evident among some JW's,not all though.My mother is a JW, I know she is sincere in her beliefs.I have first hand knowledge of how most JW's have been "tricked into joining."For instance, about six months ago I stumbled upon one unique teaching of the JW's.Jesus is not their mediator, he is mediator for only the 144,000.My mother was not made aware of that fact when she was studying nearly 30 years ago, she only found out when I told her!
starfillednights 3 days ago
Also, many sincere people have left the JW organisation and continue to worship God and put faith in his Son, but these individuals can be called apostates and family members are told to shun them. This is unchristian behaviour and causes many to fear leaving when their personal bible study causes them to interpret scriptures differently to the WT. This is how they are "coerced into staying."
starfillednights 3 days ago
It fits the definition of a cult perfectly.
starfillednights 3 days ago
@starfillednights I have been disfellowshipped for about 20 yrs. but I do not blame it on Jehovah, his organization or his people...I blame myself...I knew what his requirements were, and I chose to disobey them. There is no one else to blame except me. Disfellowshipping is not a nice situation, however, it is according to the apostle Paul's 1st letter to the congregation in Corinthia a scriptural matter. However in his 2nd letter to them, if a person shows genuine remorse for wrongdoing, there
badwingduck1 3 days ago
The congregations back then were to remove the "wicked" from their midst. There was the case of the man who slept with his fathers wife, and did so openly it would seem and without remorse. Who could argue with removing such a man? I am sure there are some disfellowshiped for similar wicked acts. Many though are disfellowshiped simply for disagreeing with WT doctrine, even though they have great faith in the Father and the Son.
starfillednights 3 days ago
@starfillednights This is a good reasonable point you've brought up and it deserves a proper and reasonable answer. It's a thing many have referred to here as "independant thinking". There is nothing wrong with independant thinking, and in fact almost all of Jehovah's witnesses think extremely independantly. In fact if you search utube 'a preview of the new world" you will find a very good example of it. However, although her thinking was independant, she stuck to scriptural theme and scriptural
badwingduck1 3 days ago
@starfillednights thinking. It's not the independant thinking that's wrong in itself...it's when the independant thinking strays away from scriptural teaching that is wrong. When one's thinking becomes contrary to bible teaching, then it is necessary to remove that person from the christian congregation if necessary so that others do not adhere to unscriptural teachings.
badwingduck1 3 days ago
His requirements or their requirements?
starfillednights 3 days ago
@starfillednights I apologize...I've lost you on this one..too many posts required here without enough room to reply to questions properly. You'll need to be more specific as to requirements of what.
badwingduck1 3 days ago
@badwingduck1 I'm sorry starfillednights..nice handle by the way..a thinking persons synonym....but I'm a little lost in cyberspace here I think...lol. I'm having trouble following you right now. Try again please.
badwingduck1 3 days ago
One common example. To become a JW you must give up birthday celebrations even though there is no command within the entirety of the scriptures for Christians to do so. Christians have freedom in such matters. "One [man] judges one day as above another; another [man] judges one day as all others; let each [man] be fully convinced in his own mind." Romans 14:5
starfillednights 3 days ago
@starfillednights I think I found you currently again...lol. This again is a thinking persons question. May I ask you this? If you loved Jehovah, and even if there is no direct mention of violation of his law, but the law you are considering might be connected to paganism...would you want to risk displeasing him? If you thought that it might be dispicable to him , would you want to practice it anyway and take the chance of losing his favor? The early christians did not practice it.
badwingduck1 3 days ago
Glad you found me! Forgive me for saying this but what you have stated is typical Watchtower logic and unscriptural. Many things are said to be connected to paganism. For instance are you aware that even baptism has its roots in ancient Babylon and Egypt, even circumcision is thought to have pagan origins. I suppose what i am saying is that pagan roots does not make a practice displeasing to YHWH. If your everlasting life was at stake it would have been mentioned, but it's not.
starfillednights 3 days ago
The idea that birthday celebrations are an ‘idolizing’ of the person is an unrealistic categorisation. Couples who celebrate a wedding anniversary are not idolizing themselves nor idolizing their marriage. Like so many other things, it is the way in which things are done, the spirit shown, and this can vary widely. Nowhere in the Scriptures is there any indication of God’s disapproval of birthday celebrations. They are silent in that respect. It is a case of men presuming to know God’s thinking.
starfillednights 3 days ago
@starfillednights ahah!!! there you are!!...lol. I will have to google search what you said and see if what you are saying is true. Historians and archaeologists are not stupid. However, scripturally as far as everlastring life is concerned..your not quite right there, but that is another discussion. I can prove it to you scripturally that this is what Jehovah has promised us. I will direct you to what the bible says concerning this, but we'll need to stick to the subject.
badwingduck1 3 days ago
@starfillednights The only birthday celebrations mentioned in the bible were practiced by pagan nations, and they all resulted in tradgedy for Jehovah's people. It is a known fact amongst historians that neither Jesus, his apostles or the true early christians celebrated birthdays. My conscience, because I wish not to do what is displeasing to God, tells me not to celebrate them.
badwingduck1 3 days ago
Using that logic then, as an illustration, let's say that the Scriptures had no reference to marriage feasts other than marriage feasts held by two pagans or non-Christians (perhaps even with some coincidental drunkenness or immorality occurring)would that make marriage feasts something wrong, unfit for Christians?
starfillednights 3 days ago
@starfillednights Gotcha again..lol. The answer is this. The bible shows that Jesus himself celebrated marriages, however there was no immorality involved as that would be displeasing to his heavenly father. We are supposed to be christians which litterally tanslated means "like Christ". Therefore, as christians, we would not want to be involved with immoral practices.We can celebrate this with a clean conscience because our Maste did. So now we have to ask ourselves...if Jesus celebrated
badwingduck1 3 days ago
@badwingduck1 I took the extra time to search circumcision and baptism on my puter. You almost had me..lol..except for one thing. Both practices originated amongst God's original covenant people...THE JEWS. No pagan origin there, however it did spread from the jews who were God's covenant people to the pagan nations. That is different, though than originating from the pagans...totally different, as it was already approved by the true God and it is also scriptural.
badwingduck1 3 days ago
@starfillednights these things can we? Of course we can, but only with the view that we need to stay loyal to him and our creator Jehovah, meaning that we would not indulge in drunkeness or immorality. If it occurs with others around us, then we should as christians, excuse ourselves politely and walk away.
badwingduck1 3 days ago
As far as I'm aware there was no rule within the mosaic law forbidding birthdays. Either way Christians are not under law. We know the early Jewish Christians imposed circumcision upon the gentile Christians, perhaps they imposed their ban on birthdays too? It seems logical. I don't know why your conscience is bothered by birthdays but I would like to ask you if your conscience is affected as you go about your day using the Gregorian calendar, with its days and months named after pagan gods?
starfillednights 3 days ago
@starfillednights LMAO...Funny you brought that up because I remember a brother at an assembly doing a public discourse that dealt exactly with the fact that not only the months, but also the days of the week being named after pagan gods. However, as Jesus said in the first part of John 17:15 "I request you not to take them out of the world..." Obviously we live in the world and are affected by it christian or not. We are not scripturally expected to lose track of time...lol. I think you are
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@starfillednights splitting hairs here somewhat and just like the Jews who made the accusation against Jesus that he was claiming to be God, you are doing the same to me..them so they could stone him and prove him wrong, and me just to try to prove that what I am saying to you is wrong. Everything I have spoken to you here tonight I back with scripture. Have you even bothered to look them up in your own bible to know if they are true or not?
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@badwingduck1 The Pharisees where the ones who put burdens on the people, a bit like the GB do with the JW's today. Like I've said, it's nothing against you personally. You have presented your interpretation of the scriptures as have I. Though you have not yet provided an adequate explanation as to why Christians cannot celebrate their birthdays. When the apostles said they would add no further burden the GB thought otherwise.
starfillednights 2 days ago
@starfillednights Thank you for being kind and reasonable. I appreciate it. People who are on here tend to act like a rabid mob if they know you have a J.W. background and you would not believe how many posts I have had to answer. I feel as Jesus did when the Jews made accusations against him so they could have an excuse to stone him. However, it's all good because it's been 20 yrs. for me and it helps me remember what I thought I could never remember..lol. I've probably forgotten more about
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@starfillednights what the bible teaches than most on here will ever know in their lifetimes. The main reason J.W.s do not celebrate birthdays other than the fact that the early christians didn't is because the only 3 times they were mentioned in the bible, they resulted in tradgedy for God's people, including John the Baptist, and if I remember right, birthdays come from pagan backgrounds. However, I will search google on the origin of birthdays and get back to you to make sure about that.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@starfillednights Whoa!!! That didn't take very long...lol...I just checked out the origin of birthdays and it originates with witchcraft...lololol...thanx but no thanx, you can celebrate them if you want to, but I sure won't. As soon as I saw witchcraft involvment I didn't bother reading anymore...you can check it out yourself...origin of birthdays on search.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@starfillednights UUUmmmmm...I think that before I answer this one...you had best do a puter search on the origin of birthdays...lol. I think after you read that, you'll find that the GB wasn't putting any unnecessary burdens at all...lol.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
Baptism also has spiritistic origins, should that prevent christians from being baptised?
starfillednights 2 days ago
@starfillednights Not true...it originated with early Israel, which means it had God's approval and spread from there to the pagan nations. Again...search your puter and you'll find it.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
It predates early Israel. Google
Baptism: A Pre-Christian History
starfillednights 2 days ago
@starfillednights Lets end the discussion for the night . it is 4:30 here...lol. A.M. You said your mom is a J.W. This is good, because she now has a hope for a future, something this world severely lacks. So I will quote you scriptures that prove that her hope is very real. Go to sleep and pick this up in the A. M., because I will be looking up scripture in the bible and it will take a little time.Then read them and see for yourself. Unless you have no desire for God's kingdom to be established
badwingduck1 3 days ago
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@badwingduck1 "This is good, because she now has a hope for a future, something this world severely lacks" All those who place their hope in Him will not be disappointed. We should not place our trust in a man made religious organisations with corrupt leaders who teach that Jesus is not the mediator for the world but only a select 144,000. This is a lie and it take the glory away from our Lord and gives it to man, to whom no salvation belongs. Psalms 146:3.
starfillednights 3 days ago
Flesh and blood will not inherit God's kingdom. When the Christ arrives in his glory and the angels with him he will say to those on his right "inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world" how will you be able to enter this kingdom with your flesh & blood body?
starfillednights 3 days ago
@starfillednights on the earth, you will have to agree with them as a reasonable person..Rev. 11:18 latter part says that those "ruining the earth will themselves be brought to ruin".. Isaiah45:18 middle part "the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the one who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to ge inhabited"...Isaiah 33:24 "And no resident will say I am sick"..Isaiah 65:21&22 says in part.."They will not build and someone else have
badwingduck1 3 days ago
@starfillednights occupancy". I could go on and on if I wanted to. What a wonderful hope for mankind and our future. This is God's promise to us...and it WILL BE FULFILLED!!!
badwingduck1 3 days ago
As most Christians are aware those scriptures refer to the restoration of Israel to their homeland and have nothing to do with the future paradise earth JW's expect. Paradise in the scriptures is in heaven. 2 Cor 12:2-4. The earth, indeed the universe will not exist forever, it is scientifically impossible. YHWH made the universe and the physical laws that govern it. The universe is expanding and will in many eons go dark. Research the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
starfillednights 3 days ago
The scriptures agree with this view. "They themselves will perish, but you yourself will keep standing; And just like a garment they will all of them wear out. Just like clothing you will replace them, and they will finish their turn." Psalm 102:26.
starfillednights 3 days ago
@starfillednights If this were true, could you tell me what Revelations 21"1-5 refers to??? You are basing your trust in man made theory. The bible tells us at Psalms 146:3 "Do not put your trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man to whom no salvation belongs". Jehovah did indeed create the universe and the physical laws that govern it just as you say, so this is what he had to say regarding the earth at Isaiah 45:18 and read this from your own bible:"For this is what Jehovah has said,
badwingduck1 3 days ago
The new Earth will be nothing like the physical earth we have today, the scriptures often use hyperbole as it impossible for our minds to comprehend the reality of what awaits us. Ask yourself, if flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom how do you as a Jehovah's Witnesses expect to inherit everlasting life in God's kingdom?
starfillednights 3 days ago
@starfillednights Flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom..in the heavens, however, the earthly kingdom which we pray for in the Lord's prayer is a different story. Besides, if about 6 or 7 billion people go up there...what are they going to do up there..rule as kings??? If so, and there is no one on the earth, what or whom are they going to rule over?
badwingduck1 2 days ago
The new Heaven & Earth are nothing like most envisage. The number of people who have ever lived is in excess of 107 billion. There would be no room on this earth for that many people. Nor would there be enough land area to produce food for that many people. The logistics of it are a nightmare. It certainly wouldn't be like the paradise pictures presented to you by the WT. The fact is that the term "paradise earth" does not appear in the entire bible.
starfillednights 2 days ago
@starfillednights Cool...but did you know that they have already figured out that they could take the present world's population and stand them all shoulder to shoulder and fit them inside the state of Texas and still have room? Besides Jehovah put the desire in us to procreate and if he wanted to he could remove it without harm. Also man can send spacecraft to the stars now, so why did he create such a vast universe? Who's to say that he won't point to the stars and show us how to get there?
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@badwingduck1 Well I will wait on the Father to reveal whatever future blessings he has in store. It does no good to speculate or to interpret the scriptures to fit our preconceived ideas. The WT does that a lot and finds itself having to change understandings all the time. The generations teaching as an example. When my mother was studying she was told armageddon was a few years away because the generation which saw 1914 were nearly all dead. The world is still here.
starfillednights 2 days ago
@starfillednights I believe that it's possible that your mother was told that it would end soon, and according to known chronology, 1975 was the end of 6000 yrs. of proven written history, however, too many people jumped to their own conclusions that it would usher in Armageddon and that's not true. No wonder so many fell away after, however this was foretold by Jesus when he said that the evil slave would say "my master has delayed". Jehovah has his appointed time of which even the gb admits
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@starfillednights that they do not know the day or hour and always have stood by that. I think the generation Jesus was talking about since 1914 was not the 80 yr. one that the scriptures talk about but there was another one of 120 yrs. which takes us right to 2034. That's the one where Jehovah met with the angels and said mans lifespan was too long and he would shorten it to 120 yrs.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
What happens if the end you believe in does not come between now and 2034? "He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them."(Luke 21:8)
The WT has been saying ‘The due time has approached' since it's inception.
starfillednights 2 days ago
@starfillednights Lol...had a feeling you wouldn't quit. I remember a scripture, but believe it or not I forget where it is...lol. It's the one where the apostles said to Jesus "but Lord, you have sayings of everlasting life, where else are we to go to?" Well, if there is no everlasting life as promised, then it doesn't matter anymore and then I will believe that there is no God because there will be nowhere else to go. That's not likely to happen though, and with world affairs being the way
badwingduck1 2 days ago
“It does not belong to YOU to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction." Look what false prophesying has done to discredit Christianity, causing many to stumble. I am keeping in expectation of the day of the Lord. It can come at anytime, my faith is not shaken if it does not come in my lifetime or in the next thousand million years. If a person has their faith fixed on the foundation, which is Christ, there is nowhere else they need go.
starfillednights 2 days ago
@starfillednights Listen kid...ya gotta slow down..I'm gettin' old...lol..to a point I agree with what you say here, however, Jesus gave us all the signs of his presence which have occured since 1914..nation rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom (war on a world wide scale of which we've seen 2), increase in earthquakes, food shortages, disease and the disgusting standing in a holy place(the United Nations because they claim to be the only hope for mankind for peace on earth and only
badwingduck1 2 days ago
Ok I'll slow down! hehe
starfillednights 2 days ago
@starfillednights Thanx...you little devil you...lol
badwingduck1 2 days ago
Daniel 4 says nothing of future fulfilment of the 7 times prophecy, the interpretation was given and it was Nebuchadnezzar represented by the tree. In other prophecies of Daniel it is clearly stated there would be a future fulfilment, not so in Daniel 4. In order for the GB to hang onto the 1914 year they have to ignore all available evidence showing that their 607 date for the destruction of Jerusalem is wrong.
starfillednights 2 days ago
@starfillednights Possibly, I don't know enough about it to say whether you're right or wrong, however as I mentioned previously, even the apostles and the prophets made mistakes, because even though they were guided by God's spirit, they were still imperfect men. Same for the GB. They would be the first to admit they are imperfect and make mistakes and I've heard them say so at assemblies in the past.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
Well I do not judge them personally but the scriptures say to "test the inspired expression because many false prophets have gone out into the world." So each of us have that mandate.
I must go now though, dinner time where I live.
Been a pleasure conversing with you.
starfillednights 2 days ago
@starfillednights To test anything that you are told is scriptural is the right thing to do. Paul commended one of the congregations for verifying everything he had taught them and not just taking his word for it. Hmm. been up all night. Breakfast time over here. What part of the world do you live in?...I'll be right over for dinner...lol.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@starfillednights God's kingdom can bring peace on earth so they are therefore disgusting in their claims, and they cannot replace God's kingdom) and in 2 Timothy..children being disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, fierce, puffed up with pride, headstrong, not open to any agreement, etc. etc. So we are definitely there. In fact if Jehovah doesn't step in soon, we'll all be in trouble. Trust me..it will be in our lifetime. How soon?..who knows? It's close!
badwingduck1 2 days ago
All the bible students who have ever lived and died thought the same. They were wrong. You may be right. You shouldn't say it though.
starfillednights 2 days ago
@starfillednights they are, if it doesn't happen, then we are all in trouble, so it won't matter. One more thing...so you know that the promise is a paradise on EARTH and not heaven...Psalms 37:11 which states "But the meek ones themselves will possess THE EARTH, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." There is certainly no interpretation to be made on that one my friend..lol. Hope to see you there...and your mom too.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
The scriptures should be harmonious so I do not personally understand this scripture to be speaking about a future fulfilment other than that which was fulfilled in the days of Israel. The hebrew word for EARTH can also be translated LAND. This how most Christian denominations and indeed the Jews understand that passage of scripture. The Israelites were indeed restored to their LAND and enjoyed a period of peace. Whatever God has in store for us in the future I am sure it will be amazing.
starfillednights 2 days ago
@starfillednights My best answer for you to this is to read Isaiah 11:6-9. I don't think this is describing heaven as animals won't be in heaven. Also I'm too lazy right now to look it up but the bible states that "no one will wake up and say "I am sick"". and "no one will build a home and someone else have occupancy". Obviously an earthly hope. Also the "mountains will overflow with wheat". Please stop reading into the scriptures what is not there. the meek shall inherit the Earth.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@badwingduck1 Jehovah also said that he did not create the earth simply for nothing, but that he created it "even to be inhabited". That sounds like earth to me...not heaven.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
There are so many problems with the JW interpretation, it's hard to know exactly where to begin. As I have clearly shown from the scriptures, this earth will eventually (I don't know when) no longer exist. It will ware out.
starfillednights 2 days ago
Because JW's begin with a false assumption, namely that God intended for Adam and his offspring to live on the earth literally forever they get everything else wrong. Christians have known for 2000 years God's basic plan, even though they do not know exactly every detail. Even the patriarchs had some understanding. Hebrews 11:16 "Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them."
starfillednights 2 days ago
Whatever our futures be, I wish you peace and joy in your Christian life as you do your best to live according to spirit Christ instills.
starfillednights 2 days ago
@starfillednights This scripture is talking about the 144,000 who will rule with Christ as kings in the heavenly gov't. which will rule the earth over the 1,000 yr. reign. If your belief is that EVERYONE will go to heaven to rule with him, over whom are they going to rule if there is no one on earth??
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@starfillednights In reply re the earth will wear out. I can't find it here to comment directly, so I'll answer here. That is directly in conflict with bible teaching. Make sure you read Psalms 104:5 from your own bible where it says "He has founded the earth upon its established places, It will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever!!!
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@badwingduck1 You should also read psalms 37:29 which says "the righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it. The word used in the hebrew texts means earth and not land. You should not replace words scripturally in order to try to bring them into conformity with what you want to teach, but rather the other way around.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@starfillednights The due time is already here...we just don't know the day or hour...but we do know by world events that we are close. The WT has never given an exact day or hour for armageddon since its inception. Those are misunderstandings. I should know, as I have been in touch with them for about 55 yrs. Not misunderstandings on their part, but on the part of others, most who have gone on heresay and never even been a part of the WBTS.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
There are many older publications over at wt archives dot com written by Russell and Rutherford, in which they specifically point to dates armageddon would occur. 1975 was a date also pushed forward by the GB, I know JW's today who acknowledge that fact. Many JW's though seem to have collective amnesia regarding these false dates they announced in advance. Jesus made it easy for us by instructing us to avoid those who come announcing "the due time has approached."
starfillednights 2 days ago
Now you are saying 2034. When will the JW GB ever learn? You do not get salvation associated to an organisation, if that were so Jesus would have told us. In John 10 he tells us that HE is the door, that we must go through him, that his sheep do not listen to ANOTHER voice, certainly not the hired man. "Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.” Acts 4:12.
starfillednights 2 days ago
@starfillednights What are you talking about? I'm talking chronology according to the maximum age that Jehovah allows us to live which is approximately 120 yrs!! You are a perfect example of those who have jumped to conclusions.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@starfillednights Not true..Never have they given a date for armageddon. No one knows the day or hour. We can only go by the last generation that Jesus spoke about since the end of the gentile times in 1914. Bible chronology can be very complicated and difficult and be misunderstood and the 6000 yr. written history of man may have been mistakenly dated, but certainly not armageddon. Even the governing body will be the first to admit that they are imperfect and can make mistakes. In fact the
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@starfillednights apostles even made mistakes as did the prophets. Inspired by God, yes, but perfect men..no.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
The scripture simply reads "flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom" no distinction is made between an earthly and heavenly. The GB must make that distinction for that scripture to fit into their broken theology.
starfillednights 2 days ago
Also when Paul describes the resurrection of the dead he does not describe two separate types of resurrection for Christians. Also, if you are to be resurrected on the earth, why will you not marry? Jesus' words there pose great difficulty there for the JW understanding, I know they find that piece of the puzzle difficult to fit into the whole.
starfillednights 2 days ago
@starfillednights the Creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who DID NOT CREATE IT SIMPLY FOR NOTHING, WHO FORMED IT EVEN TO BE INHABITED..." Do you really think he will allow it to perish? You are now going to have to choose between man made theories or scriptural teaching.You either believe what the bible teaches, or you don't!!
badwingduck1 3 days ago
Are you saying that this is a man made theory? (Psalm 102:26) . . .They themselves will perish, but you yourself will keep standing; And just like a garment they will all of them wear out. Just like clothing you will replace them, and they will finish their turn. . .
starfillednights 3 days ago
(Isaiah 51:6) 6 “Raise YOUR eyes to the heavens themselves, and look at the earth beneath. For the very heavens must be dispersed in fragments just like smoke, and like a garment the earth itself will wear out,. . .
starfillednights 3 days ago
@starfillednights This conforms to Rev 21:1-5 and is reference to the fact that he is making a new heavens...the establishment of God's kingdom in the heavens..and a new earth...the establishment of God's kingdom on the earth. That would be the casting out of Satan (the dragon) from the heavens, and the wiping out of the satanic political and false religious system of things on the earth which will be replaced with earth's original purpose....paradise.
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@starfillednights Not meaning to be rude, but could you explain to me what this has to do with the price of tea in China?
badwingduck1 2 days ago
@badwingduck1 I love Jehovah..I love you..I love my brothers in the truth. Jehovah loves me..he loves you..he loves his people. Because Jesus taught us to love your neighbours as yourself and even to love our enemies, as long as I think your life and the lives of people that you love are at stake I will continue to "preach the good news of God's kingdom throughout the earth" this is a kingdom that he has promised us.and it would be nice to have nice discussions with you forever.
badwingduck1 3 days ago
@starfillednights I just realized something. When I said that Jehovah might refer us to the stars as anothe place to live...that is independant thinking. It's my own thoughts and they may be right or wrong. I am as a J.W. allowed to think this way, however, it is not something that is a scriptural fact. It is simply my own dependant thinking whether it is right or wrong. However if I try to enforce that way of thinking on others in the congregation, then I become apostate in my teachings. It is
badwingduck1 3 days ago
@starfillednights I've lost you again...I apologize...another time perhaps? you had good questions, and with reason, they definitely should be answered. I think the page here is too filled up...I look forward to talking to you again.
badwingduck1 3 days ago
@starfillednights is a recommendation for reinstatement. So I am cleaning up my life and returning to meetings with a strong view to repentance. As far as the mediator thing is concerned you may have misunderstood what was being said. Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. In fact we cannot approach Jehovah in prayer in reality without asking all things prayed for through his son as mediator. To this day anytime you hear one of Jehovah's people praying, such as at a meeting, you will
badwingduck1 3 days ago
@starfillednights always hear the person leading the congregation in prayer ask all things in and through the name of Jesus Christ..Amen, thereby using and accepting Jesus Christ as our mediator.Where do people hear these things from anyway? The only way Jehovah is a mediator in the other sense that you mentioned is that he would not diredt us as individuals as concerns things that need to be revealed to the congregations.In the other situation he would use the faithful and discrete slave class.
badwingduck1 3 days ago
"Through the new covenant, Jehovah makes bless- ings available to many by means of a few. Those in the covenant are few, a mere 144,000. Through them, millions from all nations will be blessed with everlasting life in an earthly paradise." WT March 1 2012 p17.
starfillednights 3 days ago
So through the 144,000, those in paradise earth will gain everlasting life.
starfillednights 3 days ago
It seems the Watchtower does not adhere to scriptural teachings.
starfillednights 3 days ago
(Acts 4:12) . . .there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is NOT ANOTHER NAME under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”
starfillednights 3 days ago
@starfillednights This is correct. These ones are bought from amongst mankind with the blood of Jesus to rule with him as kings and form the peaceful heavenly gov't. which will rule over the earth, and who better than they, because they have experienced the problems that man has faced and no one could understand our problems better than them. The millions it talks about are the "great crowd which no man can number..these are my other sheep". These are those amongst mankind who have the earthly
badwingduck1 3 days ago
@starfillednights hope of living eternally in perfect peace and health on the paradise earth. Think about it reasonably...if we all went to heaven and ruled with Jesus as kings as some religions teach...what would you do up there, and over whom would you rule?
badwingduck1 3 days ago
@starfillednights do Jehovah's people. As Jehovah wishes all to take the road leading to life...so do his people. As Jehovah would hurt very deeply if someone loses their life because of disobedience to his laws and requirements...so do his people. Jesus spoke about a kingdom that would be set up on the earth ending all the terrible problems that mankind is faced with...death, war, sickness, disease, family breakup, etc. Jehovah's witnesses are advocators of that kingdom.The bible talks about us
badwingduck1 3 days ago
@starfillednights being able to build our own homes and "no one else will take possession of them" . It even says that "no one will wake up and say..I am sick". These are just some of the promises that Jehovah has given us.
badwingduck1 3 days ago