The carbine was rather unique amongst all arms in WWII domestic or foreign. It wasn't a rifle or a sub-machingun. Did any other nation in WWII have a real carbine? Not just a cut-down of a fullsize model.The M2 all but replaced the sub-machinegun. What would you rather have out of the american arsenal of the time; Thompson, M3 greasgun, M50 Reising, M42 U.D. or the M2 carbine?
Technically the Italians made the first assault rifle. Overtime, various countries produced rifles that improved upon the original assault rifle concept. Gas systems (like the short stroke piston used in the M1 Carbine), intermediate cartridges, ect. were all thrown together and produce the modern assault rifles we know and love today.
@Tfarnham849 I dont know if a gun that never saw service really qualifies if youre talking about the rigotti, i think the russians made the first one, and the germans made the first good one.
@millakilla Russians made the Federov Automat, which, in all fairness, was closer to a battle rifle than an assault rifle (it was chambered in 6.5mm Arisaka, so it technically counts as a battle rifle due to cartridge diameter). It was still a definite step in the right direction though.
@wwood14 Yes you can think of the m2 as an early assault rifle. The main thing that it's missing is a pistol grip (look at the place where you would put your trigger hand on an m16 in comparison). It's a small weapon that fires a light round, is fully automatic, and has a large detachable magazine. That's basically the recipe for an assault rifle
@Tippet76 the pistol grip is not a requirement of being an assult rifle its needs an intermediate cartridge to be select fire no pisol grip requires thats just for californias bullshit assult weapons ban
The problem with the M2 in combat was not the lack of penetration, it was the lack of power compared to the M1 Garand. The .30 Carbine round has a bullet essentially the same diameter as the .30-06 the Garand used, but lighter at 110gr vs. 150gr, and slower at 1900fps vs. 2700fps. To a large extent the .30 Carbine is somewhere between a pistol and rifle in terms of power, and it showed. The M1 Carbine was meant to be a replacement for a pistol, not a rifle, it was the first "PDW".
During the Korean war, this gun was issued to me in the USAF. In basic training we had to blindfolded, take it apart and then put it together again. And, I think it was the M1, not the M2. I think the M2 is like a machine gun, finger on trigger and multiple shots. This was so long ago, but memories of this come to mind. I qualified as a sharpshooter with only a couple of point and I almost made Expert marksman. In Korea I used the M2 and used "Bannana clips" which were taped together.
I heard the Germans were quite fond of the carbines they recovered. I don't know if there were any M-2 carbines issued to soldiers in the European theater,
@isuckaman The M2 Carbine was only put into production in April 1945; and conversion kits were sent out to mod currently issued M1 Carbines to full auto/semi select fire. Some M2's did make it to Europe for the final push into Germany but they would have been rare. In the Pacific the Army employed them in the final campaigns in the Philippines. If they had decided to invade Japan instead of dropping the A bombs im sure they would have seen widespread use.
@ginjaninja1988 Funny that you say that: My grandpa served in the Korean War with 2nd Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment and he traded his Lee-Enfield rifle for an American M2 Carbine. He said that the reason he liked it was because it was full-auto and they were going against some tough fellas (the Chinese)
@Litterboxer529 I don't blame him. The Lee Enfield is a great rifle but I would do the same as your Grandpa if I was in his shoes. Those Chinese would have come thick and fast. The initial Carbine was supposed to be select fire but they gave up on that to get it out in time for troops who were starting to leave the US en mass to start overseas campaigns (mid 1942 onwards). Thanks for sharing that little bit of info; quite interesting to hear history from a personal viewpoint.
I didn't know the Viet Cong wore body armor. I was lead to believe the M-16 was a light weight alternative to the M-14 with almost the same stopping power.
Well, I'm not sure what to believe. If it is as powerful as that You Tube video you're alluding to shows, then it seemed like the perfect weapon for Vietnam. In jungle fighting accuracy over 100 meters isn't required. So why did the US develop the M-16? I think you may be overrating the "stopping power" of the carbine.
@isuckaman The M1 Carbine cartridge was like a pistol cartridge, like ball head, you know. That shape of the projectile reduces the penetration power to most body armor. The requirement was to defeat Soviet's body armor, so, yah, that the reason why the M-16 was developed.
@isuckaman Many of the stories like that one are pure myth; or an odd occurance that has turned into a myth of common occurance as it is told. There is a video here on Youtube of a .30 M1 Carbine easily penetrating 8 layers of frozen Denim, 6 inches of wood and a waterjug in one shot. Within 300m it is deadly.
@AGeekWithAShotgun I'd disagree, but thats my opinion. The .30 is a straight walled cartridge that really only produces velocities around 1800 fps. I still think it is more of a high powered pistol cartridge than a low powered rifle cartridge. This is all just semantics of course.
Guys the m1 carbine was made for people who had a hard time carrying the garand because of duty.
It was a trade off between a pistol and a rifle. It is basically a pistol round but given the Geneva convention it had round nose jacketed ammo. Mor accurate than the Thomson and more range. Not that less in the knock down given round restrictions though...
@deepwoodskentuckian you can own autos even if you arn't class 3 ffl(what i presume you mean by a class 3 licence?), a civie like you and me(unless you cop ex army I don't know), needs to go trough the nfa to get a machine gun but it must be registered before 1986(when the "fire arm owned protection act" ( an ironic tittle)) cop ex army or class 3 ffl can own any new old whatever and gets them far cheaper than us, you do have to live in a pro gun state to get 1 as a civie aka florida
@bandman232 yes it i has been and still is no class 3 ffl required it has to be pre 1986 if your a civie though class 3 ffl law enforcment or ex army can get newer ones, depends of statye if you live in a comminist pro pot anti liberty state like commiefornia, no chance if you live in a progun area like flrida is doable but lots of paper work.
@e0o9kii yes it i has been and still is no class 3 ffl required it has to be pre 1986 if your a civie though class 3 ffl law enforcment or ex army can get newer ones, depends of statye if you live in a comminist pro pot anti liberty state like commiefornia, no chance if you live in a progun area like flrida is doable but lots of paper work. you can own an rpg(though are rare banned is most stated and rounds count as nfa items so around $1000) nothing is really illegal just hard to get, check
@radioblueheart All it needs is expanding bullets. FMJ bullets don't cause much damage. Also, the 5.56 and 7.62 in this case would be the Mini-14 and M14 respectivley.
But this gun would be far more versatile if it was chambered for pistol rounds rather than such a specific cartridge. You could easily get the same results if it were chambered for 7.62 Tokarev. Plus if you had a TT-33 they could be interchangeable.
@radioblueheart this is an american weapon. why would we use a russian pistol round? that wouldnt make sence. now if we made it a .45 that would make sence. but they stuck with the 30 carbine round because its between the 30-06 of the garand, and the .45 of the thompson or 1911.
why did they try replacing this marvelous weapon with the m14 you couldn't even hit the target full auto more than once with the m14 this was a fantastic weapon
@Daynknight1001 It's all about calibers. The army didn't want to be making different caliber ammo for different weapons. since 7.62 NATO was adopted this was seen as a good intermediate cartridge and there was no need for carbine and mostly sub gun calibers as the 7.62 NATO could (so they claim) both. I agree though the m2 seemed more practical to me given after the m-14 the went to m-16. a light weight small caliber weapon.
@Xiolablu3 well that's one of those things that will be debatable forever. It's so mid range that a great argument could be made for both sides. I have an M-1 carbine and a Ruger blackhawk in .30 M-1 and there is a large difference in shooting them and I could make a argument that supports both sides.
@fresca9990211 They are illegal here as well, unless they were in the country before the ban was enacted. There are only so many automatics left and they can be expensive as heck.
During my time in the military many years ago, I wanted to be issued an M-2 Carbine, but ended up with the M-1 Carbine. The alternative was to haul around a BAR and all of the associated magazines. I didn't want to lug that weight around. That was before M-16's came into use. The only obvious difference between the M-1 and M-2 Carbines was the round bolt and selector switch with the M-2.
@DougDaCosta You didn't want to be issued a BAR? What the hell you' smoking? Well, if you didn't want the weight then that's different. Those BARs are some good stuff.
@YoshiFan100 Once the M-16's appeared, it changed everything. No more need for a two man BAR team. (One reloads while the other lays down fire). The only problem was almost everybody wasting ammo by shooting full auto when it wasn't needed and then complaining about not enough ammo. What did "they" figure...40,000 M-16 rounds per VC killed? Maybe the M-1 carbine wasn't so bad after all, even if it is a light load.
@DougDaCosta what are you talking about two man BAR team it's clip loaded smart one and good luck having fire superiority with the m1 carbine which practically fires pistol ammo while the vc have ak 47's with 7.62 milimeter catridges that can puncture flak jackets like paper
@YoshiFan100 They are 20 lbs loaded, run out of shots after 3-4 good bursts, & the only way to lighten them is to get rid of the bipod, which is the only thing that makes effective automatic fire at targets over 50 yards away practical. They are also a pain to reload because that magazine is a big one & if you are too close to the ground, you cannot get the mag in & out without turning the gun over. Grandpa knew of a BAR man who happily traded in his BAR for a vz30 LMG he captured.
@player1234518 Yes, but it depends on which state you live in. Machine guns and select-fire weapons are insanely expensive and heavily taxed. Lots of paperwork also accompanies such a purchase.
@mike12703 If you consider 8,000 Dollars not expensive, I want your job. You cant even pick up a Full auto AK For less then 10,000 So it seems, And it requires alot of paperwork, tax stamps, ATF involvement.
ITT people don't know what the difference between pistol rounds, revolver rounds, intermediate rounds and rifle rounds. Let me help you:
9x19mm is an example of a pistol round. It was designed exclusively to be fired from a semiautomatic handgun. There are 9x19mm rifles and machine guns, but those were never taken into consideration when it was designed.
.357 Magnum (9x33mm) is a revolver round. It was designed exclusively to be fired from a revolver (lever rifles notwithstanding).
.357 was never intended to be fired from anything other than a large, heavy-framed revolver. (Lever rifles are the exception to the rule in that they're made in pretty much every caliber on the market for every type of gun.) It's just too heavy for a .357 pistol to be practical (and yes, that does include the Desert Eagle).
.30-06 (7.62x63) is a rifle round. It's designed purely for heavy battle rifles and GPMGs, and is completely impractical for a pistol round. It's extremely difficult to fire a .30-06 machinegun without a mount of some kind.
7.62x39 is an intermediate round. It's designed to be stronger than a pistol round, but more controllable than a rifle round. It was explicitly designed to be easy to handle, especially during rapid fire.
7.62x33 IS an intermediate round, albeit a small one.
@StephenETavington The .30 Carbine is not really an intermediate rifle round. It's more along the line of a pistol caliber, so I guess a better designation would be towards a SMG/Carbine.
@StephenETavington I guess that would work. Thing is, weapons are constantly evolving, or some weapons are unique enough to where they're hard to define. However, it's definitely not an assault rifle, as the .30 Carbine does not have the characteristics of an intermediate rifle round.
@rhinogek Self defence? or if you're a bad guy who gets guns from the black market to hurt people with?. I love collecting guns, but I hate gun crime, the bad guys and the illegal guns from the black market can just shove it, and leave the law abiding responsible people and their guns alone.
@LoneWolf05 I'm not a black market dealer or a bad guy or anything like that. I know self defence, but only sick and twisted people murder like that. Warfare is an exception
@darrylhaynes And yet cars kill more than 40,000 people each year, gun related deaths are less than 6000 per year.
It all depends on the owner of the gun, thats why we need to keep them out of the hands of criminals, and in the hands of those who respect, and use them responsibly.
Having no guns increased homicide rates...its true...look at washington DC! Handguns are entirely banned there and they have the highest homicide rate in the entire USA
@AGeekWithAShotgun They were unbanned a few years ago, if I'm not mistaken. A news crew covered it. It's here on Youtube. I watched the whole series, they end up donating the gun (A .38 Special if I remember correctly) to the Museum since it's a part of history.
The M2 version of the M1 Carbine was a VERY effective weapon, It had an impressive rate of fire at 700-800 rounds per minute. I wish they all had the selector switch on them.
The M2 Carbine is technically in the submachinegun catagory & not assault rifle becuase it is a sub-rifle-caliber machinegun and a total blast to shoot and shoot it all day long .If you could afford alot of the nowadays purty dang expensive ammo anyway .
The M2 Carbine is a Fully Automatic Variant based off of the M1 Design. Technically speaking, based on the round it fires, it is an Assault Rifle, and not a Rifle, or PDW.
The M1 Carbine, the more well known model of this firing group, and outwards design, is a Semi Automatic PDW. While it COULD be classified as an assault rifle, due to it's round, it is generally not. This is because the M1/M1A1 both lacked a fully automatic firing mode...
@battlefields2mine actually the daddy of the m16 would be the m14....and the grandfather the m1...check out this video...eugene soner took the m14 and changed it into an m16 by changing the stock level to reduce recoil and so on. I'll send u the vid
@KirkeyTheTurkey7 no, the m14 became the ar 10, which was changed to fit a 5.56 x 45 nato,call an ar 15 which that was given the military designation m16
@Ps3Jasonisonfire so ur saying the m14 became the ar10 and then became the ar15? thats basically what im saying...the ar15 is the prototype for the m16
@KirkeyTheTurkey7 Uh, no the AR15 was a Civilian rifle made by ArmaLite, the final prototype for the M16 was the XM16E1 the Original being the XM15E1, developed by Colt. The AR15 is a separate, final product. It isn't a prototype, more of a basis for what they wanted for the military.
@daonejorge that would be incorrect. americas first assault rifle would be an 03 springfield with the petterson device attached. it converted the bolt action to a .30 cal pistol cartridge for trench sweeping. it was developed during the first world war.
@bad74maverick no that would not be incorrect, the pedersen (not petterson device) allowed the 03 to shoot a intermediate round in semi automatic. i will list the 3 requirements for an assualt rifle and explain as we go along how i am right. 1- weapon must fire a intermediate round. check you have that, 2nd it must have a detachable magazine, check you have that, 3rd it HAS to be select fire, semi auto is not select fire, this it is not an assault rifle. M2 still holds as americas first
@daonejorge Ok your requirements are correct and I stand wrong about the petterson.One thing I have though along those requirements. the thompson sub gun fired what the military considered an intermediate cartridge (even though it was a pistol cartridge) it was introduced in1919 and 250 entered service with marines in 1921 then adopted in 1938. the m2 was built and adopted in 1944 thus even if you don't consider the tommy gun first the german mp43 was before the m2 firing 7.92 kurz. made in 1942
@bad74maverick well the .45 ACP is not a intermediate round, it never was adopted as a intermediate round, intermediate rounds fill in the gap between pistol and rifle rounds. my argument was the .45acp was developed for pistols, and was never intended to be any kind of rifle round. so i have to disagree. and there is no reason to bring up the mp43 i am talking about Americas first assault rifle, not the very first assault rifle. only Americas.
@daonejorge Ok I once again stand corrected. My friend wanted me to argue that the BAR would have been first but I kept telling him that it was a support role weapon. Hence it shooting 30-06. One thing we did have a good discussion about is weather the full auto M-1A is considered an assault weapon. It like BAR shot a rifle round was full auto but the M-1A was not a support weapon.
@bad74maverick the m1a aka the civilian m14 shoots the .308 which is a full sized rifle round once again, and yes the bar was a SAW. and just to be technical there is a big difference between assault rifle and the dubbed term "assault weapon" assault rifle is a real gun term, assault weapon is a term dubbed by old white people to scare dumb asses of all gun owners. when it comes down to a assault rifle remember the 3 key elements
@daonejorge thats what I said, My theory of weapons is assault is an action not an object so assault weapon or rifle is a hijacked term. an AR-15 is considered an assault rifle when in truth it's a sporting rifle that looks like and assault weapon. I said the M1A was a Battle rifle like the FAL wich was full auto as well. he thought since the M-1A shot a 7.62 mm rifle round that it made it a more potent assault weapon. Using your 3 steps in logic I explained how it was not.
@TomoeNageX its chambered for an intermediate 30 caliber round, that is not a pistol sized round as you said. and im not saying there isnt one but i have never heard of a pistol that fires that, and the round i believe was specifically designed for the m1 which became the m2, so nope your wrong
@daonejorge I didn't say it was a pistol round, I said it was more of a pistol size round than a rifle round. To be designated as a rifle it has to have a rifle cartridge. Many SMGs and Pistols actually have larger rounds than the .30 Carbine, which was, as you said, designed specifically for the M1 Carbine. I'm saying it's not a rifle cartridge, it's a rounded cartridge *similar* to a pistol round.
@daonejorge And yet it is slightly smaller, in both dimensions, than the .32 H&R Magnum handgun round. So are the Revolvers that fire that round Assault Rifles?
@TomoeNageX wasthe .32 h&r mag ammo design based off of a full sized rifle round? was it design intended to be used in a close to mid range rifle. no so no its not an intermediate round.
@daonejorge Actually the .30 carbine was based off of the idea of besting the .45 ACP rounds range, but not replacing a full rifle. Also, the carbine itself was intended as a side-arm for a machine gunner, or the main weapon of a Paratrooper, as the full rifle was too unwieldy. "The Carbine and its reduced-power .30 cartridge was not intended to serve as a primary infantry weapon, nor was it comparable to more powerful intermediate cartridges later developed for assault rifles." This too serves.
@TomoeNageX as i respect the facts you state and do not deny them you must look at the outcome, the .30 carbine was used as a main weapon for plenty of soldiers, the m1 did have questionable stopping power roughly being equal to that of a .357 but even the 5.56 in the m16/m4 family has questionable stopping power, when it comes down to it, the m2 qualifys the historical definition of a assualt rifle.
@daonejorge The thing here is though, the M4 technically isn't an Assault Rifle either, it too is classified as a Carbine, adapted from the full M16A2 assault rifle in order to keep one platform but fill two roles. The M4 replaced the grease gun for the SMG role. The attempt was also done with the CAR-15 during Vietnam, creating the GAU-6/A Carbine, which was classified as a Carbine/Submachine gun. What it comes down to is, the M2 Carbine is neither an SMG or an AR, it is, as named, a Carbine.
@TomoeNageX carbine does not mean it isnt an AR. it still fulfills the requirements. carbine simply means shorter version, smg's only fire pistol rounds, thus again your point is wrong
@daonejorge The 5.72x28mm round is not a pistol round, neither is the 4.6x30mm round, both designed specifically for SMGs. A carbine is a class of weapon. There are not as many in each class so as a result they are considered to be part of another. The M1 M2 M3 and M4 Carbines are all Carbines, and are not Assault Rifles, if the M4 was an assault rifle, and not a Carbine, they wouldn't have that AND the M16 in use by the Military. Rifleman still carry the M16.
@TomoeNageX both of thoes rounds are classified as PDW rounds by most people, the p90 and the mp7 are regularly considered pdw's not smg's as they DO NOT shoot the standard pistol rounds, now back to carbines a quote- "being essentially shortened versions of full rifles firing the same ammunition, although often at a lower velocity" (wikipedia) the point is the label carbine simply means it is a shortened version of a rifle. the m4 is a carbine assault rifle. simple as that.
@daonejorge Perhaps it is the basic sense people take from that, but the fact of the matter is, it is a carbine, which although similar to another class of weapon, it is it's own. You mentioned the MP7 is a PDW, well the same website you cited stated a PDW is in most respects a submachine gun, so a carbine is in most respects a shorter rifle. But then by your own logic it is not a rifle, it is another classification altogether, and the .30 Carbine is the same argument as the 4x30 as well.
@daonejorge A carbine isn't a "hybrid" between an SMG and a rifle, its just the barrel length of a firearm. A carbine doesn't have a full size rifle length barrel. Hence the M16 uses a 20 inch barrel making it a rifle. The M4 uses a 14.5 inch barrel making it a carbine. Even certain Lee Enfield rifles were classified as jungle carbines in WW2 because of the shortened barrel, but they were still bolt action operated. Get you facts straight pal.
@THEKINGOFMETROPOLIS what the fuck are you talking about, i never said a carbine was like a smg we where talking about assault rifles. i know a carbine is any shortened or compacted rifle system in. how bout you read the convos correctly and get your facts straight "pal"
@daonejorge It also states that a PDW is a hybrid between an SMG and a carbine. If a carbine was not a separate classification they wouldn't say that, they would say it's a hybrid between an SMG and a Rifle. But in reality, that is people would say of the modern Carbine.
@TomoeNageX Only the U.S. Marines use the M16A4. The Army uses M4A1's as their standard issue. The M4 is an assault rifle are you dumb? An intermediate rifle caliber, select fire weapon.
@daonejorge no that would be the BAR or Browning Automatic Rifle it entered service in 1918 though very un assault rifle like by modern standards it was the best that could be made at that time.
Furthermore the M2 is really more of an SMG if knew the development history of the M1 carbine family of weapons youd know that this weapon fired pretty much a pistol round because the M1 carbine was originally intended to be issued to non-combatants as a self defense weapon to replace handguns and give them better range but be easier to fire than a rifle round.They found that the M1 was very useful for CQ combat so they made the M2 in effect making a SMG with a little bit more range.
The round itself is called the .30 carbine and was intended from the beginning to be a rifle round. It was the first intermediate round developed for a rifle. Only later on was a pistol chambered for it.
@TheHondamonkey wtf your joking right? the bar was Americas first squad automatic weapon, it fired a full sized rifle round, thus in NO way was it an assault rifle.
@daonejorge No I am not joking the BAR was originally designed to be an automatic rifle for use in assaulting trenches in WWI you could ask John Browning if you'd like but he has long since passed away. The weapon was really too bulky for this role so they tended to use it more as a support weapon through many criminals such as Clyde Barker and many soldiers in WWII used it like an assault rifle which was its original interned role.
The carbine was rather unique amongst all arms in WWII domestic or foreign. It wasn't a rifle or a sub-machingun. Did any other nation in WWII have a real carbine? Not just a cut-down of a fullsize model.The M2 all but replaced the sub-machinegun. What would you rather have out of the american arsenal of the time; Thompson, M3 greasgun, M50 Reising, M42 U.D. or the M2 carbine?
mindeloman 1 month ago
I'm not looking forward to the snow.. and its coming soon :(
CoreyIsTheName 2 months ago
So is this a true M2 or is it just the trigger group from an M2?
boosted28 4 months ago
That's a lot of heat for such a tiny gun. Thanks for the post!
Davito2000 4 months ago
Could you think of the M2 as an early version of an assault rifle?? I'm not a gun guy..
wwood14 5 months ago
@wwood14 Nope. The AK-47 was already adopted by Russia, and the STG-44 was made before that. So thank the germans for assault rifles. :)
bandman232 5 months ago
@bandman232
Technically the Italians made the first assault rifle. Overtime, various countries produced rifles that improved upon the original assault rifle concept. Gas systems (like the short stroke piston used in the M1 Carbine), intermediate cartridges, ect. were all thrown together and produce the modern assault rifles we know and love today.
Tfarnham849 5 months ago
@Tfarnham849 I dont know if a gun that never saw service really qualifies if youre talking about the rigotti, i think the russians made the first one, and the germans made the first good one.
millakilla 5 months ago
@millakilla Russians made the Federov Automat, which, in all fairness, was closer to a battle rifle than an assault rifle (it was chambered in 6.5mm Arisaka, so it technically counts as a battle rifle due to cartridge diameter). It was still a definite step in the right direction though.
Thatevilmidget 4 months ago
@wwood14 Yes you can think of the m2 as an early assault rifle. The main thing that it's missing is a pistol grip (look at the place where you would put your trigger hand on an m16 in comparison). It's a small weapon that fires a light round, is fully automatic, and has a large detachable magazine. That's basically the recipe for an assault rifle
Tippet76 4 months ago
@Tippet76 the pistol grip is not a requirement of being an assult rifle its needs an intermediate cartridge to be select fire no pisol grip requires thats just for californias bullshit assult weapons ban
TheAlexagius 3 months ago
@TheAlexagius If that's all that's required than by your definition a SAW is an assault rifle and not a machine gun.
Tippet76 3 months ago
@Tippet76 miseed out 1 thing fired for the shoulder
TheAlexagius 3 months ago
@TheAlexagius What long gun isn't fired from the shoulder?
Tippet76 2 months ago
@Tippet76 shotguns with pistol grips and not stocks
TheAlexagius 2 months ago
@TheAlexagius If there is no stock than it is not a long gun. Again, by your definition a weapon like the SAW is an assault rifle
Tippet76 2 months ago
The problem with the M2 in combat was not the lack of penetration, it was the lack of power compared to the M1 Garand. The .30 Carbine round has a bullet essentially the same diameter as the .30-06 the Garand used, but lighter at 110gr vs. 150gr, and slower at 1900fps vs. 2700fps. To a large extent the .30 Carbine is somewhere between a pistol and rifle in terms of power, and it showed. The M1 Carbine was meant to be a replacement for a pistol, not a rifle, it was the first "PDW".
Duvallmd 5 months ago
During the Korean war, this gun was issued to me in the USAF. In basic training we had to blindfolded, take it apart and then put it together again. And, I think it was the M1, not the M2. I think the M2 is like a machine gun, finger on trigger and multiple shots. This was so long ago, but memories of this come to mind. I qualified as a sharpshooter with only a couple of point and I almost made Expert marksman. In Korea I used the M2 and used "Bannana clips" which were taped together.
SalPedi 5 months ago
I heard the Germans were quite fond of the carbines they recovered. I don't know if there were any M-2 carbines issued to soldiers in the European theater,
isuckaman 6 months ago
@isuckaman yes the krauts loved picking these up and using them
garandfan12 6 months ago
@isuckaman The M2 Carbine was only put into production in April 1945; and conversion kits were sent out to mod currently issued M1 Carbines to full auto/semi select fire. Some M2's did make it to Europe for the final push into Germany but they would have been rare. In the Pacific the Army employed them in the final campaigns in the Philippines. If they had decided to invade Japan instead of dropping the A bombs im sure they would have seen widespread use.
ginjaninja1988 6 months ago
@ginjaninja1988 Funny that you say that: My grandpa served in the Korean War with 2nd Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment and he traded his Lee-Enfield rifle for an American M2 Carbine. He said that the reason he liked it was because it was full-auto and they were going against some tough fellas (the Chinese)
Litterboxer529 5 months ago
@Litterboxer529 I don't blame him. The Lee Enfield is a great rifle but I would do the same as your Grandpa if I was in his shoes. Those Chinese would have come thick and fast. The initial Carbine was supposed to be select fire but they gave up on that to get it out in time for troops who were starting to leave the US en mass to start overseas campaigns (mid 1942 onwards). Thanks for sharing that little bit of info; quite interesting to hear history from a personal viewpoint.
ginjaninja1988 5 months ago
@ginjaninja1988 'welcome!
Litterboxer529 5 months ago
I didn't know the Viet Cong wore body armor. I was lead to believe the M-16 was a light weight alternative to the M-14 with almost the same stopping power.
isuckaman 6 months ago
@isuckaman., also with less reoil and more accuracy.
itsmaxthemaster 6 months ago
Well, I'm not sure what to believe. If it is as powerful as that You Tube video you're alluding to shows, then it seemed like the perfect weapon for Vietnam. In jungle fighting accuracy over 100 meters isn't required. So why did the US develop the M-16? I think you may be overrating the "stopping power" of the carbine.
isuckaman 6 months ago
@isuckaman The M1 Carbine cartridge was like a pistol cartridge, like ball head, you know. That shape of the projectile reduces the penetration power to most body armor. The requirement was to defeat Soviet's body armor, so, yah, that the reason why the M-16 was developed.
1stMarineCapt 6 months ago
During the winter fighting in Korea the stopping power of this weapon was reduced by the heavy uniforms worn by Chinese troops.
isuckaman 6 months ago
@isuckaman Many of the stories like that one are pure myth; or an odd occurance that has turned into a myth of common occurance as it is told. There is a video here on Youtube of a .30 M1 Carbine easily penetrating 8 layers of frozen Denim, 6 inches of wood and a waterjug in one shot. Within 300m it is deadly.
ginjaninja1988 6 months ago
Couldn't you say this is an assault rifle? It fires an intermediate cartridge.
WASPfreak 7 months ago
@WASPfreak Basically, The .30 carbine cartridge is somewhere between a pistol and and intermediate rifle cartridge like the 5x56x45 and 7x62x39.
FiedtheNeedIT1 7 months ago
@FiedtheNeedIT1
.30 Carbine is an intermediate rifle cartridge.
AGeekWithAShotgun 7 months ago
@AGeekWithAShotgun I'd disagree, but thats my opinion. The .30 is a straight walled cartridge that really only produces velocities around 1800 fps. I still think it is more of a high powered pistol cartridge than a low powered rifle cartridge. This is all just semantics of course.
FiedtheNeedIT1 7 months ago
@WASPfreak
Yes, the M2 Carbine is an assault rifle.
AGeekWithAShotgun 7 months ago
Now I know what grandpa's talking about when he tells me his stories from Korea!!!
Litterboxer529 7 months ago
I carried one of these during drug raids and was well armed. The m1version.
Don't like smg for police work....
ferdonandebull 8 months ago
Guys the m1 carbine was made for people who had a hard time carrying the garand because of duty.
It was a trade off between a pistol and a rifle. It is basically a pistol round but given the Geneva convention it had round nose jacketed ammo. Mor accurate than the Thomson and more range. Not that less in the knock down given round restrictions though...
ferdonandebull 8 months ago
Is it legal to own a full auto M1 Carbine in the USA?
e0o9kii 9 months ago
@e0o9kii no
bandman232 9 months ago
@bandman232 unless you have a class 3 license then if you have one of them you can own automatic weapons
deepwoodskentuckian 9 months ago
@deepwoodskentuckian you can own autos even if you arn't class 3 ffl(what i presume you mean by a class 3 licence?), a civie like you and me(unless you cop ex army I don't know), needs to go trough the nfa to get a machine gun but it must be registered before 1986(when the "fire arm owned protection act" ( an ironic tittle)) cop ex army or class 3 ffl can own any new old whatever and gets them far cheaper than us, you do have to live in a pro gun state to get 1 as a civie aka florida
TheAlexagius 9 months ago
@bandman232 yes it i has been and still is no class 3 ffl required it has to be pre 1986 if your a civie though class 3 ffl law enforcment or ex army can get newer ones, depends of statye if you live in a comminist pro pot anti liberty state like commiefornia, no chance if you live in a progun area like flrida is doable but lots of paper work.
TheAlexagius 9 months ago
@e0o9kii yes it i has been and still is no class 3 ffl required it has to be pre 1986 if your a civie though class 3 ffl law enforcment or ex army can get newer ones, depends of statye if you live in a comminist pro pot anti liberty state like commiefornia, no chance if you live in a progun area like flrida is doable but lots of paper work. you can own an rpg(though are rare banned is most stated and rounds count as nfa items so around $1000) nothing is really illegal just hard to get, check
TheAlexagius 9 months ago
@e0o9kii state laws some its legal some you need a class 3 ffl
TheAlexagius 9 months ago
look! its the widdershins RC-1!
15kwakmatthew 9 months ago
God I live that sound!
allrightbrain 10 months ago
The only thing I don't like about this thing is its caliber. Why don't they scale it up to 5.56 or 7.62, or scale it down to 9mm or .45?
radioblueheart 10 months ago
@radioblueheart The bullet has the same energy as a .357 magnum.
AztecWarrior777 10 months ago
@AztecWarrior777
That may be true, but it lacks knock down power.
All I am saying is that it could be improved upon.
radioblueheart 10 months ago
@radioblueheart All it needs is expanding bullets. FMJ bullets don't cause much damage. Also, the 5.56 and 7.62 in this case would be the Mini-14 and M14 respectivley.
AztecWarrior777 10 months ago
@AztecWarrior777
I was thinking 7.62 like sks or mini-30.
But this gun would be far more versatile if it was chambered for pistol rounds rather than such a specific cartridge. You could easily get the same results if it were chambered for 7.62 Tokarev. Plus if you had a TT-33 they could be interchangeable.
radioblueheart 10 months ago
@radioblueheart this is an american weapon. why would we use a russian pistol round? that wouldnt make sence. now if we made it a .45 that would make sence. but they stuck with the 30 carbine round because its between the 30-06 of the garand, and the .45 of the thompson or 1911.
Airsoft501stAirborne 10 months ago
OMG ASSAULT WEPEN
cloudycolacorp 10 months ago
why did they try replacing this marvelous weapon with the m14 you couldn't even hit the target full auto more than once with the m14 this was a fantastic weapon
Daynknight1001 10 months ago
@Daynknight1001 It's all about calibers. The army didn't want to be making different caliber ammo for different weapons. since 7.62 NATO was adopted this was seen as a good intermediate cartridge and there was no need for carbine and mostly sub gun calibers as the 7.62 NATO could (so they claim) both. I agree though the m2 seemed more practical to me given after the m-14 the went to m-16. a light weight small caliber weapon.
bad74maverick1 10 months ago
@bad74maverick1 The .30 carbine is more like a slightly larger pistol round than a rifle round
Xiolablu3 8 months ago
@Xiolablu3 well that's one of those things that will be debatable forever. It's so mid range that a great argument could be made for both sides. I have an M-1 carbine and a Ruger blackhawk in .30 M-1 and there is a large difference in shooting them and I could make a argument that supports both sides.
bad74maverick1 8 months ago
Sucks that autos are illegal in Canada, off to the USA!!!
fresca9990211 11 months ago 2
@fresca9990211 They are illegal here as well, unless they were in the country before the ban was enacted. There are only so many automatics left and they can be expensive as heck.
Stritchers 11 months ago
@fresca9990211 im with yah on that one buddy
wade239 10 months ago
During my time in the military many years ago, I wanted to be issued an M-2 Carbine, but ended up with the M-1 Carbine. The alternative was to haul around a BAR and all of the associated magazines. I didn't want to lug that weight around. That was before M-16's came into use. The only obvious difference between the M-1 and M-2 Carbines was the round bolt and selector switch with the M-2.
DougDaCosta 11 months ago
@DougDaCosta and the bayonet lug and rear sight
glitchbusters 11 months ago
@DougDaCosta You didn't want to be issued a BAR? What the hell you' smoking? Well, if you didn't want the weight then that's different. Those BARs are some good stuff.
YoshiFan100 11 months ago
@YoshiFan100 Once the M-16's appeared, it changed everything. No more need for a two man BAR team. (One reloads while the other lays down fire). The only problem was almost everybody wasting ammo by shooting full auto when it wasn't needed and then complaining about not enough ammo. What did "they" figure...40,000 M-16 rounds per VC killed? Maybe the M-1 carbine wasn't so bad after all, even if it is a light load.
DougDaCosta 11 months ago
@DougDaCosta what are you talking about two man BAR team it's clip loaded smart one and good luck having fire superiority with the m1 carbine which practically fires pistol ammo while the vc have ak 47's with 7.62 milimeter catridges that can puncture flak jackets like paper
Daynknight1001 10 months ago
@YoshiFan100 They are 20 lbs loaded, run out of shots after 3-4 good bursts, & the only way to lighten them is to get rid of the bipod, which is the only thing that makes effective automatic fire at targets over 50 yards away practical. They are also a pain to reload because that magazine is a big one & if you are too close to the ground, you cannot get the mag in & out without turning the gun over. Grandpa knew of a BAR man who happily traded in his BAR for a vz30 LMG he captured.
Stritchers 11 months ago
@YoshiFan100 BAR is WW1 technology
Xiolablu3 8 months ago
@Xiolablu3 The 1911 was made before that.
The 1911 is still better than the new M9's they're handing out now. It's not about when, it's about how.
YoshiFan100 8 months ago
R they legal in the USA
player1234518 1 year ago
@player1234518 Yes, but it depends on which state you live in. Machine guns and select-fire weapons are insanely expensive and heavily taxed. Lots of paperwork also accompanies such a purchase.
CrystalHunter1989 1 year ago
@CrystalHunter1989 no they aren't. you can get one for around 6,000-8,000 dollars.
mike12703 11 months ago
@mike12703 If you consider 8,000 Dollars not expensive, I want your job. You cant even pick up a Full auto AK For less then 10,000 So it seems, And it requires alot of paperwork, tax stamps, ATF involvement.
inotcookie553 11 months ago
ITT people don't know what the difference between pistol rounds, revolver rounds, intermediate rounds and rifle rounds. Let me help you:
9x19mm is an example of a pistol round. It was designed exclusively to be fired from a semiautomatic handgun. There are 9x19mm rifles and machine guns, but those were never taken into consideration when it was designed.
.357 Magnum (9x33mm) is a revolver round. It was designed exclusively to be fired from a revolver (lever rifles notwithstanding).
(continued)
asdfzxc920 1 year ago
@asdfzxc920
.357 was never intended to be fired from anything other than a large, heavy-framed revolver. (Lever rifles are the exception to the rule in that they're made in pretty much every caliber on the market for every type of gun.) It's just too heavy for a .357 pistol to be practical (and yes, that does include the Desert Eagle).
(continued)
asdfzxc920 1 year ago
@asdfzxc920
.30-06 (7.62x63) is a rifle round. It's designed purely for heavy battle rifles and GPMGs, and is completely impractical for a pistol round. It's extremely difficult to fire a .30-06 machinegun without a mount of some kind.
7.62x39 is an intermediate round. It's designed to be stronger than a pistol round, but more controllable than a rifle round. It was explicitly designed to be easy to handle, especially during rapid fire.
7.62x33 IS an intermediate round, albeit a small one.
asdfzxc920 1 year ago
@asdfzxc920
(Sorry for all the log comments)
asdfzxc920 1 year ago
how much do .30 carbine rounds cost?
crazyswordsman125 1 year ago
why wasn't this in call of duty black ops
jmantime 1 year ago
Fat guy with a little gun
blackrosebasser 1 year ago
Can this weapon be called an "assault rifle"?
StephenETavington 1 year ago
@StephenETavington It's a carbine. A smaller, lighter, more compact version.
RarghImGunnaEatU 1 year ago
@StephenETavington
Yes, it is. It is America's first assault rifle.
Cowbelltheoneandonly 1 year ago
@StephenETavington The .30 Carbine is not really an intermediate rifle round. It's more along the line of a pistol caliber, so I guess a better designation would be towards a SMG/Carbine.
skankuser 1 year ago
@skankuser So automatic carbine/ supersized SMG? (The definition of SMG is: fires pistol rounds, looks like a carbine than a pistol)
StephenETavington 1 year ago
@StephenETavington I guess that would work. Thing is, weapons are constantly evolving, or some weapons are unique enough to where they're hard to define. However, it's definitely not an assault rifle, as the .30 Carbine does not have the characteristics of an intermediate rifle round.
skankuser 1 year ago
@StephenETavington The M1/M2 Carbines are basically beefed up handguns, with big power and better range and accuracy.
LoneWolf051 1 year ago
Where may I obtain one and how much do they cost?
LordShadrach 1 year ago
pretty low recoil
kmklover 1 year ago
i didnt know the carbine had a burst fire mode? or was that a later version
norcofoxrider 1 year ago
i hate guns...
darrylhaynes 1 year ago
@darrylhaynes why :P
rhinogek 1 year ago
been shot twice.....hurts like hell....smell your flesh burning....fuck a gun..
darrylhaynes 1 year ago
@darrylhaynes guns are fine and I understand your views perfectly. I don't hold anything againsed you, but who the hell would shoot somebody.
rhinogek 1 year ago
thank you....but i still hate guns..
darrylhaynes 1 year ago
@darrylhaynes then why are you watching this video you lifeless fucking loser. Go troll for replys from people somewhere else.
day10020 1 year ago 2
@rhinogek Self defence? or if you're a bad guy who gets guns from the black market to hurt people with?. I love collecting guns, but I hate gun crime, the bad guys and the illegal guns from the black market can just shove it, and leave the law abiding responsible people and their guns alone.
LoneWolf051 1 year ago
@LoneWolf05 I'm not a black market dealer or a bad guy or anything like that. I know self defence, but only sick and twisted people murder like that. Warfare is an exception
rhinogek 1 year ago
@darrylhaynes Well I've been in a few car wrecks before, and it hurt like hell, but I dont hate cars.
LoneWolf051 1 year ago
cars are not made 4 killing....guns are...
darrylhaynes 1 year ago
@darrylhaynes And yet cars kill more than 40,000 people each year, gun related deaths are less than 6000 per year.
It all depends on the owner of the gun, thats why we need to keep them out of the hands of criminals, and in the hands of those who respect, and use them responsibly.
LoneWolf051 1 year ago
@darrylhaynes
Having no guns increased homicide rates...its true...look at washington DC! Handguns are entirely banned there and they have the highest homicide rate in the entire USA
AGeekWithAShotgun 1 year ago
@AGeekWithAShotgun ??????????????????
darrylhaynes 1 year ago
@darrylhaynes
im saying guns prevent homicides....
cuz u seem to be a person who wants guns to be banned
AGeekWithAShotgun 1 year ago
@AGeekWithAShotgun i hate guns
darrylhaynes 1 year ago
@darrylhaynes
then why are you commenting on gun videos
AGeekWithAShotgun 1 year ago
@AGeekWithAShotgun They were unbanned a few years ago, if I'm not mistaken. A news crew covered it. It's here on Youtube. I watched the whole series, they end up donating the gun (A .38 Special if I remember correctly) to the Museum since it's a part of history.
RarghImGunnaEatU 1 year ago
What do you get when M1 Garand & M2 Carbine mate... M1 Garand+M2 Carbine=M14
FreestylaBoy 1 year ago
@FreestylaBoy No.
csmybuttt 1 year ago
The M2 version of the M1 Carbine was a VERY effective weapon, It had an impressive rate of fire at 700-800 rounds per minute. I wish they all had the selector switch on them.
msuber 1 year ago
so basically, its a full auto m1 carbine?
iamadness69 1 year ago
I was issued a M2 Carbine in the Army/attached to the US 7th Army.
Great close qtrs weapon. But learned to be chary with the auto response.
You could actually melt the barrel, with too much of that sort of firing. And as
I remember it fired a 30 Cal. round.
Tonyp2356 1 year ago
As used in the korean war.
SonnyJWright 1 year ago
Anyone know a good place to find one and how much they tend to run for?
spmcfar 1 year ago
@spmcfar My Uncle just bought one for $250-300...i forget what he told me, it came with the 15 round mag.
gargster18 1 year ago
SWEET
terrorterminator 1 year ago
cool i like it with a knife on it
MrCrapCookie 1 year ago
I think that this carbine is a good tool to shoot cuttlefish, but can I also shoot vicuñas with this carbine to get their Karakul and broadtail?
warden9876 1 year ago
The M2 Carbine is technically in the submachinegun catagory & not assault rifle becuase it is a sub-rifle-caliber machinegun and a total blast to shoot and shoot it all day long .If you could afford alot of the nowadays purty dang expensive ammo anyway .
bigdubbatoo 1 year ago
Guy looks like a penis
Lexicanoe 1 year ago
@Lexicanoe You were just lookin' in the mirror .
bigdubbatoo 1 year ago
in cod2 this weapon sucks :@
Avb2903 1 year ago
@Avb2903 This weapons isn't in ANY cod.
airplaneguru84 1 year ago
@airplaneguru84 ....yeah,in cod it is the M1A1 one...semi automatic...i was refering it
Avb2903 1 year ago
@Avb2903 The M1A1 Carbine is the semi automatic version. This is the M2 Carbine, the fully automatic version. It isn't in any COD game.
Randomdude121 1 year ago
@Randomdude121 i was refering to the M1A1
Avb2903 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Avb2903 This weapon isn't in ANY cod.
airplaneguru84 1 year ago
these guys are probabley korean war vets :)
Jordonification 1 year ago
The M2 Carbine is a Fully Automatic Variant based off of the M1 Design. Technically speaking, based on the round it fires, it is an Assault Rifle, and not a Rifle, or PDW.
The M1 Carbine, the more well known model of this firing group, and outwards design, is a Semi Automatic PDW. While it COULD be classified as an assault rifle, due to it's round, it is generally not. This is because the M1/M1A1 both lacked a fully automatic firing mode...
Although several modern AR's lack it as well...
Blarghenspiel 1 year ago
weighed only 5.5 pounds most rifles are 9 pounds or more
Gtaivownz 1 year ago
o wow
this is the first full auto video i have seen of this weapon
i see most people fire this weapon on semi
incubus9000 1 year ago
Since this rifle has an intermediate cartridge is it classified as an assault rifle, or just a rifle?
iamnicoyouarebob 1 year ago
where can I purchase it? online or local Gun store? I live in southern California or semi Automatic version
Drcritic0 1 year ago
Man, awesome gun. Only gripe I imagine would be the $15 spent per 30 rd mag emptied ($0.50 x 30)
Badhyungah 1 year ago
lol that dude in the beginning looks like a beast in those shades
xXL3GITAMACYXx1 1 year ago
Daddy of M16
battlefields2mine 1 year ago
@battlefields2mine actually the daddy of the m16 would be the m14....and the grandfather the m1...check out this video...eugene soner took the m14 and changed it into an m16 by changing the stock level to reduce recoil and so on. I'll send u the vid
KirkeyTheTurkey7 1 year ago
@KirkeyTheTurkey7 no, the m14 became the ar 10, which was changed to fit a 5.56 x 45 nato,call an ar 15 which that was given the military designation m16
Ps3Jasonisonfire 1 year ago
@Ps3Jasonisonfire so ur saying the m14 became the ar10 and then became the ar15? thats basically what im saying...the ar15 is the prototype for the m16
KirkeyTheTurkey7 1 year ago
@KirkeyTheTurkey7 Uh, no the AR15 was a Civilian rifle made by ArmaLite, the final prototype for the M16 was the XM16E1 the Original being the XM15E1, developed by Colt. The AR15 is a separate, final product. It isn't a prototype, more of a basis for what they wanted for the military.
TomoeNageX 1 year ago
30 carbine ammo these days is sooo expensive!
davidmarino96 1 year ago
how how much did it cost? did you buy a license or are you an FFL class 3?
2010GT500 1 year ago
Americas first assault rifle
daonejorge 1 year ago 26
@daonejorge that would be incorrect. americas first assault rifle would be an 03 springfield with the petterson device attached. it converted the bolt action to a .30 cal pistol cartridge for trench sweeping. it was developed during the first world war.
bad74maverick 1 year ago
@bad74maverick no that would not be incorrect, the pedersen (not petterson device) allowed the 03 to shoot a intermediate round in semi automatic. i will list the 3 requirements for an assualt rifle and explain as we go along how i am right. 1- weapon must fire a intermediate round. check you have that, 2nd it must have a detachable magazine, check you have that, 3rd it HAS to be select fire, semi auto is not select fire, this it is not an assault rifle. M2 still holds as americas first
daonejorge 1 year ago
@daonejorge Ok your requirements are correct and I stand wrong about the petterson.One thing I have though along those requirements. the thompson sub gun fired what the military considered an intermediate cartridge (even though it was a pistol cartridge) it was introduced in1919 and 250 entered service with marines in 1921 then adopted in 1938. the m2 was built and adopted in 1944 thus even if you don't consider the tommy gun first the german mp43 was before the m2 firing 7.92 kurz. made in 1942
bad74maverick 1 year ago
@bad74maverick well the .45 ACP is not a intermediate round, it never was adopted as a intermediate round, intermediate rounds fill in the gap between pistol and rifle rounds. my argument was the .45acp was developed for pistols, and was never intended to be any kind of rifle round. so i have to disagree. and there is no reason to bring up the mp43 i am talking about Americas first assault rifle, not the very first assault rifle. only Americas.
daonejorge 1 year ago
@daonejorge Ok I once again stand corrected. My friend wanted me to argue that the BAR would have been first but I kept telling him that it was a support role weapon. Hence it shooting 30-06. One thing we did have a good discussion about is weather the full auto M-1A is considered an assault weapon. It like BAR shot a rifle round was full auto but the M-1A was not a support weapon.
bad74maverick 1 year ago
@bad74maverick the m1a aka the civilian m14 shoots the .308 which is a full sized rifle round once again, and yes the bar was a SAW. and just to be technical there is a big difference between assault rifle and the dubbed term "assault weapon" assault rifle is a real gun term, assault weapon is a term dubbed by old white people to scare dumb asses of all gun owners. when it comes down to a assault rifle remember the 3 key elements
daonejorge 1 year ago
@daonejorge thats what I said, My theory of weapons is assault is an action not an object so assault weapon or rifle is a hijacked term. an AR-15 is considered an assault rifle when in truth it's a sporting rifle that looks like and assault weapon. I said the M1A was a Battle rifle like the FAL wich was full auto as well. he thought since the M-1A shot a 7.62 mm rifle round that it made it a more potent assault weapon. Using your 3 steps in logic I explained how it was not.
bad74maverick 1 year ago
@daonejorge Not really, it's chambered for more pistol size rounds, it's basically an SMG with a bit more range.
TomoeNageX 1 year ago
@TomoeNageX its chambered for an intermediate 30 caliber round, that is not a pistol sized round as you said. and im not saying there isnt one but i have never heard of a pistol that fires that, and the round i believe was specifically designed for the m1 which became the m2, so nope your wrong
daonejorge 1 year ago
@daonejorge I didn't say it was a pistol round, I said it was more of a pistol size round than a rifle round. To be designated as a rifle it has to have a rifle cartridge. Many SMGs and Pistols actually have larger rounds than the .30 Carbine, which was, as you said, designed specifically for the M1 Carbine. I'm saying it's not a rifle cartridge, it's a rounded cartridge *similar* to a pistol round.
TomoeNageX 1 year ago
@TomoeNageX yes it is rounded like a pistol round but it is designed to be a smaller rifle round, thus it is an intermediate round,
daonejorge 1 year ago
@daonejorge And yet it is slightly smaller, in both dimensions, than the .32 H&R Magnum handgun round. So are the Revolvers that fire that round Assault Rifles?
TomoeNageX 1 year ago
@TomoeNageX wasthe .32 h&r mag ammo design based off of a full sized rifle round? was it design intended to be used in a close to mid range rifle. no so no its not an intermediate round.
daonejorge 1 year ago
@daonejorge Actually the .30 carbine was based off of the idea of besting the .45 ACP rounds range, but not replacing a full rifle. Also, the carbine itself was intended as a side-arm for a machine gunner, or the main weapon of a Paratrooper, as the full rifle was too unwieldy. "The Carbine and its reduced-power .30 cartridge was not intended to serve as a primary infantry weapon, nor was it comparable to more powerful intermediate cartridges later developed for assault rifles." This too serves.
TomoeNageX 1 year ago
@TomoeNageX as i respect the facts you state and do not deny them you must look at the outcome, the .30 carbine was used as a main weapon for plenty of soldiers, the m1 did have questionable stopping power roughly being equal to that of a .357 but even the 5.56 in the m16/m4 family has questionable stopping power, when it comes down to it, the m2 qualifys the historical definition of a assualt rifle.
daonejorge 1 year ago
@daonejorge The thing here is though, the M4 technically isn't an Assault Rifle either, it too is classified as a Carbine, adapted from the full M16A2 assault rifle in order to keep one platform but fill two roles. The M4 replaced the grease gun for the SMG role. The attempt was also done with the CAR-15 during Vietnam, creating the GAU-6/A Carbine, which was classified as a Carbine/Submachine gun. What it comes down to is, the M2 Carbine is neither an SMG or an AR, it is, as named, a Carbine.
TomoeNageX 1 year ago
@TomoeNageX carbine does not mean it isnt an AR. it still fulfills the requirements. carbine simply means shorter version, smg's only fire pistol rounds, thus again your point is wrong
daonejorge 1 year ago
@daonejorge The 5.72x28mm round is not a pistol round, neither is the 4.6x30mm round, both designed specifically for SMGs. A carbine is a class of weapon. There are not as many in each class so as a result they are considered to be part of another. The M1 M2 M3 and M4 Carbines are all Carbines, and are not Assault Rifles, if the M4 was an assault rifle, and not a Carbine, they wouldn't have that AND the M16 in use by the Military. Rifleman still carry the M16.
TomoeNageX 1 year ago
@TomoeNageX both of thoes rounds are classified as PDW rounds by most people, the p90 and the mp7 are regularly considered pdw's not smg's as they DO NOT shoot the standard pistol rounds, now back to carbines a quote- "being essentially shortened versions of full rifles firing the same ammunition, although often at a lower velocity" (wikipedia) the point is the label carbine simply means it is a shortened version of a rifle. the m4 is a carbine assault rifle. simple as that.
daonejorge 1 year ago
@daonejorge Perhaps it is the basic sense people take from that, but the fact of the matter is, it is a carbine, which although similar to another class of weapon, it is it's own. You mentioned the MP7 is a PDW, well the same website you cited stated a PDW is in most respects a submachine gun, so a carbine is in most respects a shorter rifle. But then by your own logic it is not a rifle, it is another classification altogether, and the .30 Carbine is the same argument as the 4x30 as well.
TomoeNageX 1 year ago
@TomoeNageX look its obvious neither of us will agree with each other so lets just end it
daonejorge 1 year ago
@daonejorge Yeah, I left to go to sleep after writing that last one and realized how long this has been going and how it will just keep going.
TomoeNageX 1 year ago
@daonejorge A carbine isn't a "hybrid" between an SMG and a rifle, its just the barrel length of a firearm. A carbine doesn't have a full size rifle length barrel. Hence the M16 uses a 20 inch barrel making it a rifle. The M4 uses a 14.5 inch barrel making it a carbine. Even certain Lee Enfield rifles were classified as jungle carbines in WW2 because of the shortened barrel, but they were still bolt action operated. Get you facts straight pal.
THEKINGOFMETROPOLIS 1 year ago
@THEKINGOFMETROPOLIS what the fuck are you talking about, i never said a carbine was like a smg we where talking about assault rifles. i know a carbine is any shortened or compacted rifle system in. how bout you read the convos correctly and get your facts straight "pal"
daonejorge 1 year ago
@daonejorge It also states that a PDW is a hybrid between an SMG and a carbine. If a carbine was not a separate classification they wouldn't say that, they would say it's a hybrid between an SMG and a Rifle. But in reality, that is people would say of the modern Carbine.
TomoeNageX 1 year ago
@TomoeNageX Only the U.S. Marines use the M16A4. The Army uses M4A1's as their standard issue. The M4 is an assault rifle are you dumb? An intermediate rifle caliber, select fire weapon.
THEKINGOFMETROPOLIS 1 year ago
@daonejorge
M1 Grand dunce. And it was made by a Canadian, for pointers.
TheCondemnedProphet 1 year ago
@daonejorge no that would be the BAR or Browning Automatic Rifle it entered service in 1918 though very un assault rifle like by modern standards it was the best that could be made at that time.
TheHondamonkey 1 year ago
Furthermore the M2 is really more of an SMG if knew the development history of the M1 carbine family of weapons youd know that this weapon fired pretty much a pistol round because the M1 carbine was originally intended to be issued to non-combatants as a self defense weapon to replace handguns and give them better range but be easier to fire than a rifle round.They found that the M1 was very useful for CQ combat so they made the M2 in effect making a SMG with a little bit more range.
TheHondamonkey 1 year ago
@TheHondamonkey
The round itself is called the .30 carbine and was intended from the beginning to be a rifle round. It was the first intermediate round developed for a rifle. Only later on was a pistol chambered for it.
disturbedone5009 1 year ago
@TheHondamonkey wtf your joking right? the bar was Americas first squad automatic weapon, it fired a full sized rifle round, thus in NO way was it an assault rifle.
daonejorge 1 year ago
@daonejorge No I am not joking the BAR was originally designed to be an automatic rifle for use in assaulting trenches in WWI you could ask John Browning if you'd like but he has long since passed away. The weapon was really too bulky for this role so they tended to use it more as a support weapon through many criminals such as Clyde Barker and many soldiers in WWII used it like an assault rifle which was its original interned role.
TheHondamonkey 1 year ago