takfam07....thank you for the understanding and support. i am glad that my message and words have not fallen on deaf ears. too bad pride gets in the way of the message for others
the reason unemployment is so high within the black community is because we 'largely' do not possess the skills or trade that booker t. washington was attempting to instill within the race. had blacks had steady & decent paying jobs, stablity would have dwell within the race and families. gradual improvement (economic, social, political) would have been amiable and unstoppable.
"....washington's approach did not provide an effective solution for change..." here in lies the problem: change and improvement are not equivalent. sometimes, change creates more problems than it solves. dubois' "instant change" theory proved more problematic in reality. the moment blacks were granted access to white coffee shops, restaurants, stores & establishments, it seems the we economically abandoned our own race. there were no longer black businesses. we have all we had to the whites.
I will be the first to insist that you are wrong. The 'economic state' of the black american race is largely a by-product of ignoring booker t. washington. as simple as it can be stated, there is a vast difference between theory & practicality. had the race followed washington in lieu of dubois, our community would have solid economic foundation. other races in america gain economic independence first. had our ancestors set up businesses, learned 'real' skills, more of us could afford college.
I disagree. Because of the lack of protection by the law, successful black farms and businesses in the Jim Crow era were under constant attack by racist whites who wanted to keep blacks in subservient roles . So, our community would not have achieved economic independence.
true blacks were under attack, but the cause of the attacks had nothing to do with 'protection of the law'. it was simply human relations. b/c of the effects of slavery, blacks were not viewed as equals. the law cannot change a person's viewpoint. the best way to change a person's viewpoint is to prove them wrong, not mandate protection under the law. i believe had we established economic independence early, human relations with white & black americans would have been better.
my logic is more practical. no human being can turn away the color of the green dollar. protection under the law was beneficial, but the wrong start. i don't believe protection under the law helped the black race, as much. economic independence would have delivered blacks from ghettos, poverty, improper education, single parent homes, crime, etc. 'protection under the law' prevented none of these. economic community independence was booker t. washington's vision...sadly ignored
@joninjones11 Brilliant: "the best way to change a person's viewpoint is to prove them wrong, not mandate protection under the law." I'm 100% Asian American, 4th generation. My immigrant great-grandparents might not have been aware of Booker (they probably couldn't read much), but they followed his principles to a "T" (no pun intended). It's frustrating that blacks have all but abandoned Booker T. Washington. I know in my heart that if they followed him, it'd be very different today.
@Leonmorgan85 True. But we did go with Du Bois and Ida B. Wells activisim and look where its got us today. Nowhere. All integration did, was make are uptity black people go with whites and live as whites. Du Bois's 10% was a joke, how can you uplift a race people by these 10%ers through education and being an elite class.
We then needed and still need a Liberal Education, and protection by the rule of law. Those to things will always make us un fit to be a slave. I believe we, as a black nation, follwed into Booker T's philosophy. Now we have everyone going to school for the sake of getting a job. Not many of us are thinkers or leaders. We believe to sole purpose of education was and is to get a job (work for someone eles) Liberal Education develop leaders not job seekers.
@joninjones11 I like your argument, but I think it is not 100% correct. you say "had the race followed washington in lieu of dubois"....many people did NOT follow dubois. At that time, dubois was an extremely radical & unpopular thinker--many people did not jump on his bandwagon--they wanted more economic independence and dubois didn't speak to that as much. the second thing is that blacks did set up businesses (black wall street, 1920s, oklahoma)...but jim crow prevented that success
i appreciate your thinking, but i feel the need to re-phrase: maybe the whole "race" didn't follow dubois (in a literal sense) but most certainly the elite, the politicians, the public figure of the race did yield to dubois and his logic...
W.E.B. Dubois helped form the NAACP, which largely and ideally advocated for civil rights for blacks under the law. the logic of the NAACP largely influenced Martin L. King, Cornell West, Jesse Jackson, etc. etc. etc.
it is my argument that.."these" leaders, pioneers, fighters for the black race fought a fight. it was a noble, necessary, altruistic...but i believe it would have been unnecessary to advocate for civil rights via the legal process, had these leaders preached job skills, economic independence, and community sharing. yes, i am familiar with 'the black wall street'. it was a horrific incident. but imagine if there were 20 'black wall streets' instead of just one. racism was real, but so was cash
@joninjones11 You dont make any sense . If you own a car and some one steals or vandalizes it. How does going out and obtaining 20 cars solve the problem? If that thief or thieves are still at large and you dont have any way to fight back then they will just steal or vandalize the 20 cars you have.
your argument is more theorectical than practical. yes, if you own 1 car and someone steals it, you have no car. but if you own 20 cars and someone steals 1, you steal have 19 remaining.... to get you where you need to go [PRACTICAL, yes..] What are the REAL chances that the same thief is going to come back and steal the other 19 cars? [not likely...] although it is possible for the 'thieves at large' to steal all twenty successfully, it isn't likely.
the larger point that i was trying make was that although racism was and still is real, it wouldn't have destroyed 20 black wall streets....no thief, i think would be able to successfully steal 20 cars from the same owner.
i reject that notion that "...blacks during that era didn't have any way to fight back..." i don't mean to be closed-minded or judgmental, but i do believe that booker t. washington's method was a better way to effectively fight back than w.e.b. dubois.
@joninjones11 your right cause at the end of the day dubois was said to be a part of the boule which helped divde blacks and discredit those like marcus Garvey
@joninjones11 jim crow was a very serious matter.....so we can't say that if blacks had set up businesses and learned real skills, then we could've afforded college. Again, we had many blacks who were prosperous and had the intention to sending their kids to school...but institutional & structural racism is very serious and very real. DuBois & Washington wanted the same things for blacks (economic & intellectual freedom) but had 2 different ways of attaining those means.
How about combining both educational philosophies?
nevinreese 2 weeks ago
takfam07....thank you for the understanding and support. i am glad that my message and words have not fallen on deaf ears. too bad pride gets in the way of the message for others
joninjones11 5 months ago
Thanks
ginasnaps50 6 months ago
the reason unemployment is so high within the black community is because we 'largely' do not possess the skills or trade that booker t. washington was attempting to instill within the race. had blacks had steady & decent paying jobs, stablity would have dwell within the race and families. gradual improvement (economic, social, political) would have been amiable and unstoppable.
joninjones11 8 months ago
"....washington's approach did not provide an effective solution for change..." here in lies the problem: change and improvement are not equivalent. sometimes, change creates more problems than it solves. dubois' "instant change" theory proved more problematic in reality. the moment blacks were granted access to white coffee shops, restaurants, stores & establishments, it seems the we economically abandoned our own race. there were no longer black businesses. we have all we had to the whites.
joninjones11 8 months ago
I will be the first to insist that you are wrong. The 'economic state' of the black american race is largely a by-product of ignoring booker t. washington. as simple as it can be stated, there is a vast difference between theory & practicality. had the race followed washington in lieu of dubois, our community would have solid economic foundation. other races in america gain economic independence first. had our ancestors set up businesses, learned 'real' skills, more of us could afford college.
joninjones11 8 months ago
@joninjones11
I disagree. Because of the lack of protection by the law, successful black farms and businesses in the Jim Crow era were under constant attack by racist whites who wanted to keep blacks in subservient roles . So, our community would not have achieved economic independence.
Leonmorgan85 8 months ago
@Leonmorgan85
true blacks were under attack, but the cause of the attacks had nothing to do with 'protection of the law'. it was simply human relations. b/c of the effects of slavery, blacks were not viewed as equals. the law cannot change a person's viewpoint. the best way to change a person's viewpoint is to prove them wrong, not mandate protection under the law. i believe had we established economic independence early, human relations with white & black americans would have been better.
joninjones11 8 months ago
@joninjones11
my logic is more practical. no human being can turn away the color of the green dollar. protection under the law was beneficial, but the wrong start. i don't believe protection under the law helped the black race, as much. economic independence would have delivered blacks from ghettos, poverty, improper education, single parent homes, crime, etc. 'protection under the law' prevented none of these. economic community independence was booker t. washington's vision...sadly ignored
joninjones11 8 months ago
@joninjones11 Brilliant: "the best way to change a person's viewpoint is to prove them wrong, not mandate protection under the law." I'm 100% Asian American, 4th generation. My immigrant great-grandparents might not have been aware of Booker (they probably couldn't read much), but they followed his principles to a "T" (no pun intended). It's frustrating that blacks have all but abandoned Booker T. Washington. I know in my heart that if they followed him, it'd be very different today.
takfam07 7 months ago
@Leonmorgan85 True. But we did go with Du Bois and Ida B. Wells activisim and look where its got us today. Nowhere. All integration did, was make are uptity black people go with whites and live as whites. Du Bois's 10% was a joke, how can you uplift a race people by these 10%ers through education and being an elite class.
MVPMichael83 2 months ago
@MVPMichael83 wow this statement made makes it more logical that dubois was apart ot the boule
smoothcollected 1 week ago
@Leonmorgan85
We then needed and still need a Liberal Education, and protection by the rule of law. Those to things will always make us un fit to be a slave. I believe we, as a black nation, follwed into Booker T's philosophy. Now we have everyone going to school for the sake of getting a job. Not many of us are thinkers or leaders. We believe to sole purpose of education was and is to get a job (work for someone eles) Liberal Education develop leaders not job seekers.
damahco 2 weeks ago
@Leonmorgan85
correction on two*
damahco 2 weeks ago
@Leonmorgan85 the same could be said about asians back in the day but they persevered
smoothcollected 1 week ago
@joninjones11 I like your argument, but I think it is not 100% correct. you say "had the race followed washington in lieu of dubois"....many people did NOT follow dubois. At that time, dubois was an extremely radical & unpopular thinker--many people did not jump on his bandwagon--they wanted more economic independence and dubois didn't speak to that as much. the second thing is that blacks did set up businesses (black wall street, 1920s, oklahoma)...but jim crow prevented that success
karlitarose 3 months ago
@karlitarose
i appreciate your thinking, but i feel the need to re-phrase: maybe the whole "race" didn't follow dubois (in a literal sense) but most certainly the elite, the politicians, the public figure of the race did yield to dubois and his logic...
W.E.B. Dubois helped form the NAACP, which largely and ideally advocated for civil rights for blacks under the law. the logic of the NAACP largely influenced Martin L. King, Cornell West, Jesse Jackson, etc. etc. etc.
joninjones11 3 months ago
it is my argument that.."these" leaders, pioneers, fighters for the black race fought a fight. it was a noble, necessary, altruistic...but i believe it would have been unnecessary to advocate for civil rights via the legal process, had these leaders preached job skills, economic independence, and community sharing. yes, i am familiar with 'the black wall street'. it was a horrific incident. but imagine if there were 20 'black wall streets' instead of just one. racism was real, but so was cash
joninjones11 3 months ago
@joninjones11 You dont make any sense . If you own a car and some one steals or vandalizes it. How does going out and obtaining 20 cars solve the problem? If that thief or thieves are still at large and you dont have any way to fight back then they will just steal or vandalize the 20 cars you have.
rashadkijani 2 months ago
@rashadkijani
your argument is more theorectical than practical. yes, if you own 1 car and someone steals it, you have no car. but if you own 20 cars and someone steals 1, you steal have 19 remaining.... to get you where you need to go [PRACTICAL, yes..] What are the REAL chances that the same thief is going to come back and steal the other 19 cars? [not likely...] although it is possible for the 'thieves at large' to steal all twenty successfully, it isn't likely.
joninjones11 2 months ago
@rashadkijani
the larger point that i was trying make was that although racism was and still is real, it wouldn't have destroyed 20 black wall streets....no thief, i think would be able to successfully steal 20 cars from the same owner.
i reject that notion that "...blacks during that era didn't have any way to fight back..." i don't mean to be closed-minded or judgmental, but i do believe that booker t. washington's method was a better way to effectively fight back than w.e.b. dubois.
joninjones11 2 months ago
@joninjones11 your right cause at the end of the day dubois was said to be a part of the boule which helped divde blacks and discredit those like marcus Garvey
smoothcollected 1 week ago
@joninjones11 jim crow was a very serious matter.....so we can't say that if blacks had set up businesses and learned real skills, then we could've afforded college. Again, we had many blacks who were prosperous and had the intention to sending their kids to school...but institutional & structural racism is very serious and very real. DuBois & Washington wanted the same things for blacks (economic & intellectual freedom) but had 2 different ways of attaining those means.
karlitarose 3 months ago
@joninjones11 I totally f'n agree
smoothcollected 1 week ago
@joninjones11 When our ancestors did this, the entire city was bombed and destroyed. Ever heard of Black Wall Street?
frankenpire87 1 week ago