14-14 Salvation Water Through Baptism ? - Church of Christ

[ydnar0591]

Peter; 14 Who shall "tell thee words", whereby thou and all thy house shall be "saved". 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed "baptized with water"; "BUT" ye shall be Baptized with the "HOLY GHOST". 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like "gift" as he did unto us, who "believed on the Lord Jesus Christ"; what was I, that I could withstand God ? ACTS 11:14-17

[ydnar0591]

So far as vs 2:14 goes, James here is NOT talking about a Saved man losing salvation without good works, he is saying check yourself to see if your conversion was real in the first place. If we "SEE" a hungry brother or sis {vs 15.} and DO NOTHING. Then I would question our conversion too, we've all helped people.

10b "make your calling and election sure. 2Peter 1:10

Christians do these type works by faith unaware, it's just 2nd nature...it's like breathing to genuine Christians.

[ydnar0591]

James is speaking of justification by works before MEN. Paul is speaking of justifcation by Faith before GOD.

Both used Abraham as an example of their point.

Paul wrote:

2 For if Abraham were "justified by works", he hath whereof to GLORY; but NOT "BEFORE GOD". Romans 4:2

GOD saw Abraham's FAITH at MT. Moriah NOT his works, men saw his works and believed.

Abraham was not trying to impress MEN, nor could he be saved by his works, he BELIEVED GOD and ACTED BY FAITH. Romans 4:5 ..EPH 2:10

[AMCD83]

4 If we take this man at his word, we will not receive the free gift of salvation because our faith is without works. James says “faith without works is dead” (2:17). If faith in God is enough then even the demons are saved (James 2:19). This does not mean that all one must do to be saved is baptism. An active, working faith is a lifelong practice. Salvation begins at repentance and baptism, but we must remain faithful (active faith) to live in heaven

[thardin69]

@AMCD83 Compare James 2:18. Dead faith doesn"t mean no faith. Works is an outward appearance, and proof of faith. That is the point James is making.

[lllllannalllll]

@thardin69 "Compare James 2:18. Dead faith doesn"t mean no faith. Works is an outward appearance, and proof of faith." That's a dodge. Dead faith certainly doesn't mean "no faith" - who said it did? "Dead faith" means a fact that has not acted ... is lifeless ... has not done a thing. Faith at it's inception is NECESSARILY "faith only" - "faith alone" - and avails three naughts, two ciphers, and a zero AT THAT POINT. Believers have a right TO BECOME sons of God.

[thardin69]

@AMCD83 Demons do believe in God, dut they don"t repent.

[AMCD83]

3 James provides an Abraham as an example. God told him he would give him land for his family. Did Abraham simply have to believe (faith only) that the free gift of land and children would happen (grace only)? No, Abraham had to act on that faith to receive the free gift by leaving his father’s house, his home country and follow God where He instructed.

[AMCD83]

2 I contend that man’s salvation came down through Jesus’ perfect life, dying on a tree so that his blood could wash away sins. We come in contact with that blood Romans 6:1-4.That is the free gift of God; free grace, providing man a way out of sin. If we have faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God that his sacrifice will save us we can have salvation.That faith is working however. James 2:14-24 teaches we must have a working faith; one that is not just a hearer of the word but a doer as well

[AMCD83]

1 The man preaches at the end “we are saved through grace alone, through faith alone, through Christ alone”. His whole argument is baptism is something extra; all we need is grace only, faith only and Christ only. I don’t see the logic in that statement; if all we need is grace only then why do I need faith as well? Or if all I need is faith only that means there is no room for grace only or Christ only

[connersryan]

@AMCD83 I'm sorry you misunderstood me. What I am trying to explain to you is that someone who does not have enough faith and trust in christ to get baptized is probably not saved. Where the Campbellite cult known as "The Church of Christ" and such others make their mistake is that they rely on a saving act performed by a man to save them. They say that "contact the blood" is in the bible, but i have yet to read that verse or have a cult leader show me one. Book Chapter Verse?

[thardin69]

@AMCD83 Without faith there is no grace Eph 2:8, Heb 11:6, Rom 10:14. Faith is also freely given Rom 12:3. From this point forward, your obediance will increase fath. This is where James 2:14-24 comes in, however there are no "good" works until you are saved Eph 2:10.

[LoyalRonin]

I was raised in the COC. This man is right on!

[demondagger19]

That was awesome.

[AMCD83]

So by that statement one would conclude that the book of Acts is unimportant. Bold statement.

[AMCD83]

@AMCD83 Further more, if the book of Acts is like a news paper and only including the bare essentials of the facts then what does it mean that every conversion story told in it includes baptism? I would agree that there is not much hermeneutical information can be taken but the fact is in a book that gives the essentials, one fact that remains . . . baptism is part of each and every conversion story in Acts.

[connersryan]

@AMCD83 No one is saying that Baptism should be taken out of the Bible. They are just saying that it's not the modes by which someone receives salvation. I would even say that someone who refuses water baptism probably is not saved. You think that some wonderous power is in the water when it is only a symbol.

[AMCD83]

@connersryan 1 I am puzzled by your statement. First you say that it is not the mode by which one is saved but then go on to say that a soul would be condemned if they are not baptized. This man is certainly preaching that baptism is not necessary.Water baptism is absolutely a symbol.There is nothing magical or special about the water. It is no more miraculous then the sacrifices commanded in the Old Testament.But if the Israelites failed to make sacrifice they would no longer be obedient to God

[AMCD83]

@connersryan 2 If baptism is commanded in the New Testament as the mode one receives salvation (Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, Matthew 28:19-20, 1 Peter 3:21) and is present in every one of the conversion stories in the book of Acts. I do not see the wisdom of not teaching that it is necessary for salvation or arguing against the need.

[thardin69]

@AMCD83 We are saved by grace-Eph 2:8-9. It is not baptism that saves you, yet we are still commanded to baptize. If for nothing else, it will increase faith. Remember, baptism is symbolic- Romans 6 and 1 Peter 3:20-21. Nobody physically dies like Christ did. These verses symbolize repentance as well as death to your old self. 2 Cor 5:17. It is only symbolic to your decision (repentance) to follow (obediance) Christ.

[weerprobeer]

VERY HELPFUL! The role of baptism is superbly explained by Morey.

[pretoshohmoofc]

VERY GOOD! he said it all.

[ccumings]

This is quite sad really, a man who has dedicated alot of time to teaching in error. Baptism is necessary for Salvation, its quite simple really. Research for yourselves, dont listen to this man. Baptism is not just an outward sign, its not an after-thought. I pray the truth may abound and people may ignore this mans error of teaching.

[TheDistanceGo]

Mat. 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. But this really isn't true niether according to this mans teaching. All who have just faith are saved.

[TheDistanceGo]

I feel sorry for this man-he is way over cofident and leaves little room for learning. I would not want to be next to such as him on the day of judgement when he is asked why he continued to teach false doctrine and make the words of our Lord so in effective. I'm sure if God did not mean all of what He meant, His inspiring word would be much shorter. Just believe in Christ-The End! Oh how we make it seem so easy and put a period on that!

[squirrelmaster4life]

One must first understand that Baptism was a commandment given by Jesus Christ after he himself resurrected with all power from the grave. It is not a sign, its not a proffesion its obedience to the masters command. Any man saying otherwise does not have the Doctrine of Christ, and has neither the Father neither the Son. Men have perverted the Gospel, and are teaching contrary to what Jesus taught, breaking the commandments of men to uphold the traditions of men.mathew 7:21-acts 2:38 1pet 3:21,

[squirrelmaster4life]

after listening to this message, I dont believe this man said anything about the gospel of Jesus Christ. (Mark16:15-16)15:1-4 the gospel) (romans 1:16 the gospel is the power to save) 2thesa 1:7-8 Jesus taking vengeance on those who dont know god and havent obeyed the gospel) Romans 6:3-6 obeying the Gospel) Acts 2:38 baptized for the remission of sins, gift of holy ghost Lords ads to the church)/ Eph 1-22-23 ( christ is the head of the church which is his body)acts 2:42 follow apostles doctrine

[squirrelmaster4life]

He may of not made an issue, but he made it a commandment ! Mark 16:15-16 ( and he said unto them go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature, he who believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he who believes not shall be dammed

[larryinwillis]

Jesus's baptism was not taught until the day of Pentecost. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John deal with the life of Jesus. so sure, they don't deal with baptism. For the same reason they don't deal with attending church services or giving. Does that diminish those things?

[larryinwillis]

the selling of all they had was voluntary and not required. read the full passage. the epistles were written to people who had already been baptized for the remission of their sins. it is a common mistake to apply passages written to christians to non-christians. read the first few verses of ephesians or romans. from there on when Paul says "we" he is referring to Christians, not non-christians. a quick little question--were the ephesians baptized or not baptized? justify your answer.

[nikeshoxman]

This Morey should be positively ashamed that he belittles the Book of Acts in order to bolster his little pet. He is derogatory and slandering. Acts is the Book of Conversions - and he belittles it!  Mark it down: he will give account for that. I would rather have never heard the gospel and plead for mercy than be in his shoes. This is serious business - eternity is a long time! Listener, pay attention to his "poking fun" and mocking a Book of the Bible. There is a REASON he must do that.

[LoveJC777]

John 3:5

Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Galatians 3:26-27

You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

*How does it say we get INTO Christ in the verse above?

Acts 22:16

And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.

God's Word says what it says.

[nikeshoxman]

And "for" in Gal 3:27 is the greek "gar" which means "to introduce the reason". The verse coincides perfectly with John 1:12 which says believers have the RIGHT or PRIVILEGE to BECOME sons of God. One can't become something he already is; he must exercise that right. It's a choice. God wants to save everybody, but He never promised to do so. I hope it's not sacrireligious to say that I wish HE would, but His ways are not MY ways. The only saving faith is an obedient faith: "Trust and Obey"

[bjobe1964]

Had you NOT repented, you would be lost. Godly sorrows leads on to repent, and "unless ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." And repentance is something YOU did - God didn't do it for you. If it's something you did, then obviously it's a work - but it wasn't optional. That apparently is why James said, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." A "saving faith" includes works - not works of man's design, but those commanded by God, such as repentance.

[LoveJC777]

Excellent point; well put.

[bjobe1964]

A shame that a good representative from the church of Christ was not on hand to offer a defense. Anybody can make a one-sided argument and win: there is no opponent! This guy apparently believes and just said "we are saved by faith alone" - yet the Bible says "faith without works is dead". So this man preaches salvation AT THE POINT of a dead faith. No matter what he may do afterwards, the fellow just said "saved by faith alone - and faith, alone, is dead.

[christdiedonthecross]

Greetings in the name of my personal Lord and Savior Jesus Christ have you started casting out demons have you started healing the sick have you received the Holy Ghost! COfC a false church and doctrine the Devil is a lier!

[333pro333]

A great series! The Churches of Christ are spreading, and recruiting. Very interesting to hear how the cults have a common origin.

[SKYSPLASH]

One Baptism Saves that of Fire the hOLY SPIRIT recieved at believing recieving Gods grace alone.

Water Baptism is an outward work testifying to Gods Grace.

Many that have been Baptized by water and do not believe will be damned.

Many that have been Born Again filled with the spirit and HAVE not been Water Baptized will BE IN HEAVEN.

[nikeshoxman]

Eph 4:4, "There is ONE baptism" Mark it down. I don't know how many you teach because you refuse to say, but if you teach more than one - then that's too many. You have been asked how many baptisms you teach, and you remain as silent as a graveyard at midnight. Come on out and speak up! The church of Christ teaches ONE baptism. You teach who knows how many. See how one false doctrine leads to another and another?

[SKYSPLASH]

Thier is a Baptism by the Spirit not done by HUMAN HANDS and a PHYSICAL ACT OF WATER BAPTISM done by human hands.

One is done BY GOD the other by MAN.

[jonyrock777]

WOW! never thought of that. Thanks. So have you been baptized with fire?

[jonyrock777]

Church of Christ teaches one baptism and they do it effectiively but so does apostoics as well has pentocastols but why does the church of christ not include them as part of the brethern? I know they believe that becaseu I was in the Church of Christ.

[godsperspective]

Baptism! Is it from heaven or from men?

[SKYSPLASH]

One Baptism from HEAVEN the Baptism of Fire the Holy Spirit Recieved when You Believe and By Gods Grace Alone. Being Born Again.

Water Baptism is a Physical work salvation does not come from it is not dispensed by it. It is an important Christian Ritual that shows you have the spirit of Christ in you. But anyone can be Baptized by water and not all that are Baptized by water are Born Again Holy Spirit filled Christians.

[SKYSPLASH]

Question is Salvation of God alone or Water Baptism and The finished work of Christ at the Cross.

Revelations 7 10And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."

BELONGS TO GOD ALONE. Can you sing this for all Christians will be singing it in heaven.