Can Gold Confiscation Happen Again?

[jvforever72]

Just one last thing, gold looks nice, but it's perceived value is inflated, but don't get me wrong, there is gold in them there hills ( i hope it gets hyped up to 2000 like i think it will in the next year ), it just won't do you a lick of beans when it comes to genuine survival , or maybe it can if you know how to manipulate it properly, in various scenarios

[jvforever72]

In your example , in certain societies gold is putting food on the table but only because the agreement between the two parties, gold's worth comes from the acceptance of it's value, inherent or perceived, as does any commodity.

my main point is that, gold is not a savior of sorts for a total collapse of a monetary/societal system. The greeks, romans, spaniards, french, all had a contingent that thought it would shield them from change, we all know how that turned out.

[ytgv3fc7]

"at that point they could outlaw gold and confiscate so they can bring some Legitimacy to any new currency they come up with. "

if by "could" you mean "did" and if by "outlaw" you mean "still on the books" then maybe your statement would be a little more accurate.

[sang3Eta]

It's already happening in the US and UK hence all the "post in your gold" TV adverts that pay below market price!!!!

[goldhunting]

They'll already get almost 1/3 of your gold value when you go to sell it (Capital Gains Tax 28%). They'll require dealers, pawn shops, etc to photocopy your driver's license and report the money given to you for your gold.

Back in Roosevelt's day, the 'confiscation' as they call it, was where the Govt. paid the people for the gold (at current market value), not merely taking it away.

[alikokos]

silver in comparison to gold will not get confiscated i feel....is this why you invest in silver?

im not sure if i should say never

[superchink28]

I think gold confiscation CAN happen again. When the dust settled and countries around the world decided to go back to Gold Standard. They will have BIG problem, because central banks around the world DON'T have the gold/silver in their vault to get Gold standard currency happening.

So central banks around the world will turn to petty robbery, by collecting gold/silver from their citizens to replenish their vault.

[malamoozoo]

swine flu: WHO just announced they expect 2 billion people to be infected within 2 or 3 years - this is it folks - the big one!

[howthefagworks]

gold? lol losers

[helpendthefed]

Hey John, there actually is covert gold confiscation going on right now in the US. Ever heard of Cash for Gold? I just listened to an interview on goldseek where the person said the Federal Reserve is actually behind all these Cash For Gold programs. The dealers who collect the Gold are paid $1335 USD per oz by the Fed. Here's the link: radioDOTgoldseekDOTcom/shows/2­009/07.18.2009/GSR-07.18.09-c.­mp3 Skip to the 60 min mark for the interview.

[Decebal825]

i don't agree if the currency is not in the immediate stage of a collapse confiscation will probably trigger this collapse YES.

but what if the collapse is already underway there is a point where it will not make any difference they alarms are out and everyone knows it. whats happening....at that point they could outlaw gold and confiscate so they can bring some Legitimacy to any new currency they come up with.

[Decebal825]

funny that i tried to visit ainslie Bullion company to make in enquiry i haven't been there for a while.

before i can enter they informed me because of NEW legislation i an required to provide FULL PHOTO ID upon entry.

if i was paranoid i would swear the goverment wants to gather a list of all the people who make purchases maybe so they know whom to confiscate from.

[actop19]

Interesting point of veiw.

[zazoos2]

The elite are using newly printed money (bailout money) to purchase our gold. Where do you think these cash for gold business are getting 200 million to buy your used and unwanted gold. The elite are planning for the failure of the dollar. Great scheme, the fed prints more money and then uses it to purchase your gold, all the while devaluing the precious dollar. Good luck to us all.

[jvforever72]

nah , it's only worth something if us suckers believe it is , digital currency is coming and a worldwide currency . JV

[bingi151]

Well that's the point isn't it? People have "believed" it's worth something for 2000 years. People have "believed" that the current paper is worth something for 30. A system that is already bloated, buckling and succumbing to the same boring old lifecycle that every fiat system goes through.

And the suckers are those who hand over control of their wealth to bankers and let them play with the value of their money. Gold and silver allow wealth to exist outside of the central banks.

[slobomotion]

Endlessmountain has noted that my gold and silver calls have been spot on all year. Contact the EnTouch Network as described by KittenKattan's latest vid to get rune readings by me.

This is such a good vid -- I keep looking at it and sharing it.

[brainman95]

Have you finally gotten some sleep stella? You look 5 years younger LOL.

Can we use that as a price indicator? LOL

[jvforever72]

once again , it proves my point , the people that have he food , made the people that don't , feel like somehow gold is worth something .

it' no surprise your example comes from a nation so far in the past , they still think Pericles is walking around , they are easily manipulated .

If you offered them magic pixie dust in exchange for food , well , you know the answer to that one . JV

[stellaconcepts]

you said "how many times do i have to say it , gold is worthless , when someone needs food , they aren't thinking they need gold ."

I proved you wrong with a real life example and you start talking about pixie dust?

If you're not prepared to admit your wrong - thats fine - but dont tell me proving you wrong somehow proves your point.

Gold is a currency of last resort. Proven throughout history time and time again. Gold feeds people.

[bingi151]

What drugs are you on?

In your world $900/oz = worthless?

You're a bright one aren't you.

[jvforever72]

what fool is willing to buy it , not me , not for that price .

the people that are pumping gold , are the ones who already have plenty of it . they are pumping it like a worthless penny stock .JV

[bingi151]

Well obviously thousands of people and institutions, otherwise it wouldn't be worth $900+/oz now would it?

People like you usaid the same thing at 300, 400, 500, 600, 700 and 800/oz, were you this smug when it was $200/oz? Stupid you.

I bet five years ago you were claiming gold is dead and would never go for more than $200/oz again, and yet here we are.

If you had to bet your life on gold being valuable in the future vs paper you'd bet gold, everyone would.

[an0m0nus]

@jvforever72 the paper our moneys printed on is the pixie dust.. that's the thing people have be told is valuable whilst its worthless, its only granted value in people eye's by the force of the law, almost all fiat currency's are being devalued by the printing press no government can resist the urge, look at any central bank. all fiat currency's have failed, it might not happen again, but I'm gunna hedge against it.

[jvforever72]

@an0m0nus

Human resources and the ability to adapt to any environment is the real gold and palladium of the equation. It's what a person can do with their surroundings to survive that will distinguish the ones who will survive a trying time and the ones who will falter.

I agree that gold has value, as does palladium and the other precious metals, they are universally recognizable and enduring elements but they will not save someone if a collapse of the economic system transpires

[an0m0nus]

@jvforever72 your right but but if all your wealth is stored in paper money, it can be wiped out by the whim or folly of central banker's and if its deposited a run on the banks. precious metals & jewels, may not be hugely useful during bad economic times. but allow you retain wealth through a period's of inflation & hyper inflation, becoming useful afterwards.

combined with other resources goods and tool's, can such metals can provide insurance if the unthinkable does happen.

[jvforever72]

how many times do i have to say it , gold is worthless , when someone needs food , they aren't thinking they need gold .

the gold standard is dead , that was in a time when people were impressed with it's shiny color .

gold looks good , wow , and it has admirable conduction properties ( it even loses on that front with the advent of wireless electrical distribution ) , but if i'm out in the desert for 30 days and i haven't eaten or drank liquids , i'm not looking for gold .JV

[stellaconcepts]

you couldnt be more from the truth - where there is no currency, gold is the thing that is keeping people alive. do a search on youtube for "zimbabwe gold for food"

gold is literraly keeping these people alive!

so no - you cant eat gold - but its universally accepted for food.

and as for being in a desert starving and gold not being able to help you... well thats like saying your seatbelt wont save you if you drive off a cliff... does that mean you shouldnt wear a seatbelt?

[helpendthefed]

I have to adamantly agree with Stella on this one. Gold has been money or a store of money for thousands of years. Sure, you can't eat Gold as you keep bringing up. However, if you were out in a desert for 30 days and haven't eaten or drank liquids and you had 1 gold coin in your pocket, surely you could get someone to give you LOTS of food and water for that Gold coin. I'd bet they'd prefer the Gold coin to Federal Reserve Bank Notes too...

[jvforever72]

what if they don't want it or if there is nobody around , you made my point . that gold coin wouldn't do you any good in that situation , unless you find a way to turn it into food and water . JV

[helpendthefed]

You really have no idea what you're talking about. However, you'll find out soon enough for yourself.

[mydogjesus]

@jvforever72 your comments about how "gold is worthless" and that "the gold standard is dead, that was a time when were impressed with it's shiny color" are the most asinine and absurd things I've ever heard said about economics. Are you a 13 year old? You should go eat your dinner now, mommy is calling you. Jesus... are there really everyday people in the world with your level of comprehension? God help us.

[an0m0nus]

@jvforever72 value is subjective it it is placed on object's buy humans. people have valued gold from isolated disconnected civilisations since the dawn of civilisation to say its worthless seem's hasty, foolish even. its one of history's most universally valued commodity's.

people value gold for many properties, its permanences, it's almost totally immune to decay, it's scarcity combined with the fact cannot be created buy man nor easily faked. gold cannot be hyper-inflated paper can...

[richardsrevolution]

Hypothetically the dollar crashes and ends up with zero value.

International Bankers will try a new (possibly global) currency backed by gold.

Then they will need to confiscate

[IIIJHUSSLEIII]

(F)(U)(C)(K) OBAMA!!

[tabcan]

Gold and silver will be made illegal because it directly opposes the current fiat currency system. Initially a plan will be put in place for a voluntary surrender of your g & s at a set price. Afterward, if you don't comply, you will come under the pressure of the law if you are caught in possession, much like an illegal narcotic. If caught, prepare to have your house searched, lose any other g & s you have, serve a jail term, lose your job, etc. George Orwell would call it a "new freedom".

[dx11101]

Good points Stella, if they try to buy all of our gold from us the price would rise beyond belief. On a dimmer note; the only other option would be for the Government(s) to try take our gold by force and horde it simply because it is the arch enemy of the failing fiat currencies.

[Tigerpaws9097826]

Great analysis! I've pondered this question myself, and hadn't thought it through as well as you did. Thanks for the clear and insightful post.

[frankabler]

They would have to if they want to get their hands on any more than a few 100 ozs. Criminalizing the posession or use of G&S through legislation would yield the government nothing.

[BlackJeb09]

If they try to take my gold or silver they're going to get lead!

[Stealth0031]

Good vid and argument, but remember logic has not been used thus far in the Obama admin.

I agree with you. Still I would not be surprised. You???

All the best,

William

[stellaconcepts]

gotta be willing to roll with the punches thats for sure

[frankabler]

The US goverment will not confiscate gold or silver. It's just totally impractical and a complete waste of time and resources. BTW, I burried my G&S somewhere in Montana a few years back and I forgot exactly where that was. Have fun Obama.

[solojam]

good point they most likely would have confiscated it already, but with the new global currency that is coming out it will be backed by silver and gold, whose gonna hand in their silver or gold anyway unless they give 5000/500 per ounce respectively

[dojufitz]

It looks like you are in a sauna?

Or is that all the gold you have bouncing off the light?

[stellaconcepts]

i dont have any gold - well - hardly any... most of my metal is silver.

my camera cant handle the lighting in the room

[SamuraiCommando]

Silver pandas are absolutely ridiculous 30 bucks?

[stellaconcepts]

mental!

[PorscheB06]

Alot of the Silver Coins have sky high premiums. Apmex had a special off this past week on most Silver Products. They were as low as .79 -1.99 over spot. It only lasted one week. I bought some on Friday when the prices were the lowest last week. These other dealers are charging 19.00 and up for Silver Eagles, and around 30.00 for Panda's like you said. It is ridiculous. I found that buying the 10 ounce ir 100 ounce bars are a better deal. They don't have as much of a premium.

[meikagirl]

I don't trust this Govt.

[stellaconcepts]

smart girl... what have they done for you anyhow

[REDEMPTIONthreadz]

What about the creation of a new currency being backed by gold. That would put us back in the same boat as the 30's. They could confiscate it for the same purpose.

[stellaconcepts]

they can try... even if they do - only 25% handed it in last time - my guess is only 1% would this time

[lengthyounarther]

I think they could do it in the name of control. The precious metals like gold and especially silver could be (and to some extent already are) being used for alternative currances. If your not familiar look up the liberty dollar which was a victim of confiscation (without prosicution) just last year.

[MengersDisciple]

John,

What about the case where some other nation(s) (China?) decide to back their currency with gold?

In that case, the panic to get PMs is already underway, and the US government will have no qualms about stealing gold/silver from everyone who has it in the US...

Side Note: Good to see you back regularly on yt :)

[davincij15]

It would only happen if countries where transacting in gold and the dollar was not accepted.

[JackNeedles]

Gold confiscation wouldn't happen unless the USD becomes worthless or we see runaway inflation....which is still realistic.

[D4Shawn]

Why wouldn't they just confiscate gold to prevent us from hedging against inflation (after it clear that the dollar is plummeting anyways)? The whole point of inflation is to tax us (steal our money). Buying gold is a way to prevent that. Why then, wouldn't they prevent us from buying (or make it difficult and expensive to buy) gold and other non-dollar denominated assets? Didn't Mussolini do stuff like that?

[brodudemonkey]

No, 1% of Americans hold Gold, which is only the wealthy and smart people.

When the ball starts rolling faster people are going to go ***** to get there hands in real money.

Over the world like in Europe they are the ones buying the most, as in Germany which they know from there own history.

[PeakedEarth]

i agree. hit Auto White Balance on your camera or remove some yellow from your video feed. You are all washed out and everything is yellow an overexposed... even the blue in the window.

[bdc03]

I don't think it will be in the 30s everyone had gold. Now like 1 percent has gold.

[oldmrelics]

What if the goal of the Obama administration is to ruin the USD and pave the way for one world currency? Then, confiscating gold and silver would be needed to eliminate a competing currency. The US economy is on a road to ruin, at Obama's direct intervention. Let's all welcome the NWO... all I can say is...Got Guns!

[GuildF40]

I agree with you about Obama bringing the $ to ruin. I may stand alone here butI feel for the guy a bit as I think he is going to used as a scape goat for a lot of wrong doing. The powers that be will blame it all on him & force him to produce his birth cert and then say sorry USA he conned us it was not our fault.

Any way I am off to buy some more silver.

[slobomotion]

The Patriot Act is an indication that the U.S. government would like to do it, but I doubt they would dare. I'm in France, and my contacts in the States are extremely touchy these days. I'm trying not to provoke anybody. There's nothing they can actually do to me, but I don't need the aggravation.

[dgmoocher]

Thanks Stella!

I hear some different versions of confiscation out there. From what I understand, in the 30's it was "voluntary" to turn in coins. Only a very small percent complied as everyone held on to their gold. Our gov't a bit "slimy....er" nowadays so anything is possible. The Devmelev or whatever you call it.....could create havoc in currency AND metals. ? Interestin' times if nothing else! Ciao!

[boots920]

Gold Confiscation of 1933

Government steals We the people gold

- 10 year jail penalty given for ever oz citizen is caught with

-1939 government defaulted on gold certificates given in exchange for physical gold

Patriot Act - Has gold confiscation in it

[halfasheep]

"Patriot Act - Has gold confiscation in it "

WOW

[boots920]

Apparently so, its all heresay unless confirmed but where's there's smoke there's fire.

That's why its so important to charge Bush with War Crimes, if he's a criminal all legislation he signed could be void.

Obama has proven he's eligible for title of President.

No Registration of Live birth provided for taxpayer scrutiny

- all legislation he signs could be void

- all appointments could be void

- Status of Commander and Chief could be in jeopardy

The US is turning into Zimbabwe

[toogood6996]

really can you provide the exact words or source?

[CosmicDramaQueen]

The Patriot Act allows the gov't to confiscate Food, water and any resource that they deem necessary as well...I say Good Luck....there would be quite a fight on there hands.

[breakinmedia]

I really don't know much about this. but Couldn't Governments just confiscate it to stop a competing currency. like they did with the liberty dollar raid,

[Frequencitee]

I agree with John on this one. A number of the other Silver and Gold bugs talk about the confiscation question.

To make it illegal to hold Gold and Silver would send a signal to the rest oft he globe that the dollar is viewed as weak by the very country that is supplying it to the money market.

In turn, the response would be to dump the dollar and buy other currencies and hard assets. PM's would be one investment vehicle of many.

[Frequencitee]

For more insight revisit the political implications as outlined in the story, "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz"

Also, revisit the story. "Animal Farm" for a snapshot of where we are politically.

Read the unbelievable accuracy, at least in my perception, in Foundations of Crisis" on the research of Neil Howe and the late William Strauss.

[martialarm]

If something is so valuable that they ban the trade of it - then it is underground! Prohibition has never worked but only created nontaxable industrious. See Alcohol made the mobsters rich and drugs make the gangs rich today.

[fal2grace]

Great analysis. Thanks John.

[stellaconcepts]

if things got that bad - then it would be the least of your worry - put it that way.

if thats what the government had to do - then your probably better off selling everything and moving country anyhow.

[Raycheetah]

In the event of the original US gold confiscation, a substantial portion of the population held gold in the form of recently-circulated currency. There was enough of it out there to merit the effort of a confiscation. Nowadays, how many people actually have gold, let alone in any quantity sufficient to merit the effort and controversy to seize it? Plus, many who hold gold hold lead, too. Wouldn't be pretty. =^[.]^=

[skybirdbird]

But if the dollar is already toast....it is nothing but debt. If they need something real to pay global debt why not gold. Reminds me of my Grandmother when speaking of the last depression when banks were putting people out of their houses. She said "they would never do THAT again." Not really sure why she felt that way, but we see that they in fact ARE doing that again.

[stellaconcepts]

how much gold do you think is in the americans hands now compared to last time.

back then, gold was "money" now no-one owns it.... even if they did confiscate - they'd have to search REALLY hard to even find someone who has it!

[frankabler]

The US doesn't need anything but US dolars to pay off its debt. And it only costs the government 3 cents to print a $100 bill. Only a sucker would accept a fiat currency as payment to for goods and services and then hold on to it. Currency is exactly that. If it doesn't continue to flow it loeses value. Whenever I get dollars I immeditaley trade them for silver.

[drutter]

What are they gonna do, go door to door and search houses for shiny bars? I really can't see it, and I'm willing to entertain a lot of strange ideas. :p

[stellaconcepts]

touche'

plus dont forget what happened the first time they confiscated it - gold nearly doubled once the confiscation was complete.

only 25% of the population turned it in then (and they were probably the cash strapped) so how many you think will turn it in again after seeing the price double last time!

[AustralianinfoWars]

Well i think not bro Gold is a valuable metal dont you think? if the US dollar dies wont the powers to be look for the next best thing? GOLD???? or silver?

remember they said the WW1 was the war to end all wars, umm bro?

[Crow4gold]

just heard a video about China wanting to buy like $80 Billion Dollars. All I know is to look to the future we must look back to history. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gold confiscated. Gold is Gold and has always been prized by Kings... The U.S. Gov has done it before. Look at the Country now compared to then. Worse shape than before. Confiscation coming to the U.S.? I say yes.

[stellaconcepts]

why tho? what would be the reasoning?

[mlndstream]

A more likely scenario/theory that I've come across a few times now, is that gold will be revalued upwards and then sold to pay off national debt, of course I would suggest that you suppress the price of both Au+Ag for a very long time with paper promises for gold/silver that don't exist causing false supply, this way you could stifle mining due to poor profitability and really create a severe shortage causing immense rarity value when you decided to stop suppressing it? what a great idea;)

[mlndstream]

finally, someone discusses the possibility of gold confiscation by explaining why it was confiscated in the first place. While were in a fiat money system, confiscating gold makes as much sense as confiscating any other asset or commodity if all your going to do is sell it to pay off debt. The risk could come if the world has a single currency that wouldn't need to compete with other currencies, then it could be backed by gold and possibly need to be confiscated at some stage like before

[mlndstream]

also, from what I remember, gold bullion sales in the US have been limited in some way, and that would be a bad strategy if you were planning on confiscating gold from your citizens in the future as how could you confiscate enough bullion to pay off debt when the people your planning on taking it from don't have it in the first place?, I would think that you would promote it's sale in your own country then take it off your own citizens when their loaded up with it?

[yogiudo]

I think it can happen because Goldman Sachs wants the gold and they're the ones in full control of the US government at the moment.

[btbking]

what do you mean 'again'? there's no such thing as 'again'. Gold confiscation never happened here in Australia in the first place, dummy

[stellaconcepts]

The US obviously ;)

[dontblamethemessenge]

i think gold confiscation was because the US government put more paper in circulation than was backed by real gold (so fractional reserve). If people would exchange their paper for the gold, the gold would soon be vanished.

If they confiscate, people would ask: "but you have so many already in Fort Knox" and they would demand a check of the stack. It might turn out that the gold is not there..

[Airave]

I think they would have a hard time finding it regardless. ;)

[laplante31]

You listen to Mike Maloney to huh. lol.

[stellaconcepts]

ive read his book three times ;)

[askmeif]

Truth for those who have ears to hear:

With Fiat money systems, we are ruled by Lords,

With Gold/Silver systems, we are ruled by Kings,

Lords rule by emotion, spirit, (Software)

Kings rule by objects, flesh, (Hardware)

[boots920]

Gold/Silver coin , we are not ruled but are freemen.

[askmeif]

Perhaps the Truth about us and the Gold/Silver we buy, is that we honestly just want to experience the "Change" or the "Bump" that we would get in switching to the new PM backed money. We want to become rich off of the transition, but after the change, there would be no difference in the system, Gold/Silver would still go up, the only difference is that we would have it, and many would not?

[stellaconcepts]

i dont know if a gold standard is the way to go either... i think trade standards are the best way to a sound monetary policy... what about a country that doesnt produce gold but produces wheat for instance... a trade standard includes all the good things about a gold standard but flexible enough to make it work for the world... not just a country...

[snakecharmer133]

Gold and silver will be confiscated in order to remove any type of alternative currency. It is today illegal (in most EU countries) to use any other currency then the one that is issued by the national/central banks. If the currency system it taken down and a new currency is issued gold and silver will be confiscated, if not no one will use the new currency.

Confiscation may however not be direct, a law that prohibits you from selling or buying gold and silver would have the same effect.

[stellaconcepts]

i dont see this happening... its possible - i just dont see it.

[Eggy0]

I think snakec may have a point.

Why does taking physical possession of the gold make revaluation easier? FDR could have revalued $/gold in situ.

Confiscation to prevent currency competition sounds right. (?)

[CosmicDramaQueen]

What could potentially happen, like in the 30's is a PM crash before a Wall street and subsequent dollar crash....HOLD your Gold and Silver folks....even if it becomes illegal to Use/trade...remember Booze was once outlawed here, and it didn't stop the people from getting rich off it:) Don't worry....Be happy because it is still safer than a cash alternative:):):)

[SamuraiCommando]

I dont think there will be such thing as being rich when it gets to the point we are trading with gold amongst eachother. I would be afraid to give anyone any if they were going to narc me off.

[frankabler]

If a new currrency were to be issued, everyone will be using it because everyone's wages will be paid in the new currency. How can you make the  statement that no one will use the new currency? Like to buy groceries? Buy gas? Spend your wages?

[snakecharmer133]

You are wrong my friend, currency has always been issued as a mean to pay for public services. If you can provide them for yourself you will not use the new currency. To be honest most people dont matter enough for you to care about. The social worker in the project, the family who lives on welfare, the young man on unemployment benefits will never be interesting for you to barter with if a collapse comes. You shouldnt care what currency they use.

[martialarm]

I think the question is: Can asset confiscation occur? I think it is happening wholesale right now.

If in the USA Military enter a house to remove the occupant for martial law or swine flu disaster handling. I don't think your gold will be there when you or if you get to go home.

If gold and silver are the only real wealth then it must be at risk. But that is not a reason to not own any.

[143DREWID]

Directly on the mark. Asset confiscation is occurring right now. The confiscators will reset objective after ownership of asset majority is 'legally' achieved. Attrition will accomplish pm's repossession.

right now, Watch where the asset ownership is being transferred/repossessed.

[martialarm]

Yes they take the equities, the house, the car, the debts, the weapons, the kids, the gold and silver and then the farm.

And give you a new FEMA residence or RFI chip. A shovel and a plate of spam.

But at least being informed of those possibilities allows a person to seriously plan and not just have a brand new bug out bad sitting in the corner.

[GPmannnn]

Yay! It worked! Let me know if you need the outro exported the same way! Cheers!

[stellaconcepts]

yes I forgot when i did the vid to mention u - but i will for sure next vid - yes pls - if i could get the outro as well?

cheers

j

[hiphopsocnroc]

Hey, I sent you a mess. about gold and manipulation, any input thus far?

Relates to this video as well,

Peace-Rudy

[medulalumosa9]

John, this may be a very stupid thought (I'm by no means an economist) but, what about gold confiscation AFTER the dollar collapse? I think it still may be possible -in order to have something of worth to buy SDRs from the IMF in order to settle some debts or to buy things such as oil. What do you think?

[stellaconcepts]

one thing im realising more and more is the dollar has collapsed... its just in its death throws now. but $1 when it first came out is now worth just 2% in terms of buying power. thats a collapse.

what we're seeing now is more like a dollar repudiation... confiscating gold is not going to help that repudiation

[medulalumosa9]

Well, I'm not saying confiscation now, I was thinking after the collapse is absolute and utterly unarguable. -Where none of the spin masters on television or the White House could argue with it. -Where the entire world has dropped the dollar as the reserve currency. When the proverbial jig is up.

I think when we have nothing else of value in order to purchase basics such as oil and the foods we don't / can't produce ourselves (etc)...couldn't confiscation be on the table then?

[snakecharmer133]

The American/Western economy collapsed in the mid 70s, after that we have only had bubbles to keep the public from noticing this fact. A family is now forced to have both adults working in order to provide less life quality then during the 1970s. What we are seeing now is the aftershocks of this collapse.

Does anyone really believe that the U.S. are at war because it is fun to go to war, or could the war be a necessity in order to supply the U.S. economy with raw materials?

[medulalumosa9]

There's some excellent points!

[stellaconcepts]

thats pretty much summed up the last 40 years... good commetn

[SamuraiCommando]

That is the reality of what truly is downfall. Children should have a parent with them not a daycare worker.

[He101A]

Money is backed up by interest rates now.

[stellaconcepts]

money is debt now...

[SamuraiCommando]

ha, money or US dollars are backed by slavery. A promise to work your ass off till you are 70 years old.

[askmeif]

How can we say the dollar is no longer backed by Gold, when I can take about a thousand dollars and redeem them for an ounce of Gold in most any city?

[limitedplay]

because gold has more buying power then your 1000 dollars did ten years ago. Ten years ago you could have bought 4 or 5 ounces of gold today its only one

[askmeif]

So your saying that if we were on a Gold Standard, the price of Gold is FIXED?

If a plant an Apple Tree, and make a basket of of fruit out of my labors, and the amount of Gold is Fixed, that means that my apples added into the world would reduce the cost of all other existing apples/homes/cars/goods.

Gold Standard plus Growth of products = DEFLATION of prices?

[stellaconcepts]

not necessarily, gold doesnt have to be fixed... but it would mean for every dollar in circulation, you would need that amount of gold in the treasury.

[askmeif]

So it makes sense that Gold would go up, because there would be such demand to put it away to back currency.

Therefore, if Gold goes up with a Gold Standard, and Gold is going up with a Fiat system , result is that there is no Difference in either system, its all about faith either way?

[stellaconcepts]

no - it means the monetary base cannot be increased (doubled) overnight - you have to earn the money you make... thereby enforcing proper monetary government policy.

none of the big banks etc could have possibly have been bailed out on the gold standard.... it would have required every man woman and dog minging gold and dumping into the treasury....

by the way - i dont want to get into a debate if the gold standard is a good idea or not... im just telling you the difference.

[143DREWID]

that has repeatedly happened, historically.

[limitedplay]

@ askmeif not at all what Im saying is that your paper money would hold its purchasing power. In 1964 I could buy a gallon of gas for .25 because quarters were silver. Today I can still buy a gallon with that silver quarter but it takes you 3.00 paper money meaning for each paper dollar youve held you have lost 1200% purchase power.

[askmeif]

In 1964, you would work 1 hour to buy enough gas to take you 40 miles down the road. In 2009, if you work an hour you can easily go much farther. There is no loss of purchasing power when you compare an hours work for miles of gas use.

Today I can buy 8 Cheesburgers for 1 hour minimum wage, the same as in 1964 I presume.

[limitedplay]

@askmeif

did the reasearch and Im right you are not lol. Based on minimum wage in 1964 I could have bought 5 gallons of gas per hour worked. Today its only 2 gallons. Guess what else if I had saved those 5 quarters I would still get 5 gallons of gas today maybe 6. In 1964 I would have had to work under 15k hours to buy a house, today I have to work allmost 30k hours.

DONT TRY TELLING US WAGES HAVE KEPT UP WITH INFLATION,

I WILL GLADLY WORK FOR MIN. WAGE JUST PAY WITH SILVER QUARTERS

[askmeif]

A gallon of gas in 1964 would take you on average 8 miles. A gallon of gas in 2009 would take you on average 20 miles. 5 (1964 gallons) is the same as 2 (2009 gallons)

Today you can work under 15k hours to buy a house if you are willing to live with a single car garage, common counters and your laundry in the garage. ( a typical 1964 house). Today you get 3 car, with granite counters.

A form of Hedonics I presume.

[limitedplay]

@ askme call it what you want to call it the numbers still dont add up if you are talking median prices. I could live in a shack and only work 150 hours, theres no point to that.

To pay for a median priced home I would still have to work 25k hours as opposed to 14000 hours in 64.

Bottom line if I saved my silver from back then it would pretty safe to assume that my net wealth today would be better then it would by me putting that money into the stock market.

[limitedplay]

@ askme

Im still not sure what the lowest common denomonator is in this conversation. I still believe you had much more purchasing power in 1964.

Yes in recent quarters the savings rate has increased but mainly due to due paying off large debts.

In 1964 it was nearly people were saving 10% and working 5 more hours a week then now. In the previous quarters recently the savings was negative. My .15 cent in silver saved in 1964 would be more valuable then granite countertops and a large garage.

[D4Shawn]

"Gold Standard plus Growth of products = DEFLATION of prices?"

If there wasn't a central bank acting as a parasite upon the economy, then yes, we would probably have price deflation as the result of increased productivity. That is what prosperity is. That is what we's have (a lot more wealth) if the government didn't leech off the economy.

[stellaconcepts]

because if everyone wanted to do that then - then there wouldnt be be enough gold to go around.

backed by gold means for every $1 note - there is $1 in existance.

now the price of gold would have to go to about $15,000 USD just for the united states to be able to go onto the gold standard.

[SamuraiCommando]

John do you like coins over rounds for any reason considering the price differences?

[stellaconcepts]

no - i prefer the rounds... cheaper.

i have both - but only for diversifications sake... if I had to have 1 type - it would be bullion rounds.

[SamuraiCommando]

What about rounds versus bars? I just hate bars they suck to store.  Unless you know of some ingenius way to store them? I wish someone would do a video on silver storage and maintenance. I was considering burying mine but I can't think of a good way to do it.

[stellaconcepts]

burying is good - wrap them up in garbage bags - tap with masking tap then repeat - then store...

bars over rounds - because you often get more metal for your money.

[medulalumosa9]

Maybe a small portable safe which is both fireproof and water tight. After you put your silver in also include some of those oxygen absorbers and then for added protection put the safe in a plastic bag before buying it. -Just a thought.

[medulalumosa9]

Doh! That should be "before burying it."

[SamuraiCommando]

You think oxygen absorbers or dessicants will keep the silver from tarnishing? I guess it doesnt really matter if it tarnishes but it looks ugly. Ive never heard anyone but you John say bars over rounds. I wish I could find some tubes for bars that I could stack up 20s at a time.

[stellaconcepts]

if you can get the same metal for your money with rounds - then that would be better - bars only make sense if you are getting more ounces for your buck.

[SamuraiCommando]

Ok I see, You are all about the weight and thats it. I was on Bullion Direct recently looking at the CMX rounds/bars 1oz. Its funny that they cost more to get rounds from a mine that is certified by the Comex . Kinda seems dumb considering they are fraudulent anyways. I bought some before from there and got CMX rounds in an order of standard rounds.

[stellaconcepts]

tarnishing can be cleaned prior to sale and you will still get minimum spot price for tanished metal - silver is silver

[medulalumosa9]

Here's two easy and quick methods for cleaning tarnished silver:

Place a sheet of aluminum foil at bottom of sink. Run a quart of hot water into sink and add 1 Tablespoon of water softener (or laundry washing soda) and 1 Tablespoon salt. Place tarnished silver on the foil . The silver should become clean in 10 seconds -if not, then rub the silver with a soft cloth after removing from the water.

[medulalumosa9]

Number 2 method:

Mix some lemon juice and salt, dip a soft cloth in it and rub the silver with it. Rinse off with clean water and dry well.

[SamuraiCommando]

Weird what does the foil do?

[medulalumosa9]

LOL! I don't remember! Somfin to do wid doze darn electrons I supposin'!

[medulalumosa9]

Ya know, on a more smaller scale you could also use an aluminum pie pan instead of the sink...just be sure to adjust the amounts of the salt and softener too, naturally. :-)

[fal2grace]

and if you wrap the silver in aluminum foil, it won't tarnish...my mom used to do that with her silver flatware.

[martialarm]

Yes I have all my silver coins wrapped in foil, then in plastic inside a sock and wrapped up in masking tape. Place it in the ground and Ill be back for it later.

[medulalumosa9]

That's some good advice! Thanks!

And I'd love to know why someone gave us thumbs down for giving cleaning and storage advice.

[fal2grace]

someone went in this morning and put a minus 1 by all the comments from halfway down... must've been bored:)

[Raycheetah]

As John puts it, what matters is how much silver do you get for your fiat currency. The other side of the coin, though, is this: If you eventually just sell your PMs to a dealer to cash in on a much higher metal price, the form of the metal doesn't matter much (except that premiums on some coins, like SAEs, are accounted for in their buy price), only the metal weight. In the event of a societal breakdown, though, coins and rounds would make for a handier "crisis currency" than bars. =^[.]^=

[Frequencitee]

Storage.

I will be grouping all of my stash and then wrapping it in plastic. I would use PVC pipe, with both ends capped. Use dessicants (packing peanuts, oxygen and moisture absorbing materials) to protect against electrolysis.

I will use the same methods for a food and clean water hoard.

I'm planting a Maple tree to mark the spot to make it easier for my family to find it.

[CosmicDramaQueen]

525bimmer has a good video showing how to potentially bury your silver safely!