Anyone who's read "Story" might catch this little nugget of brilliance: while Kaufman is narrating how he doesn't want to take McKee's course, only to listen to McKee's advice on narration, McKee is drawing a diagram of "the gap": the moment in a story where one's actions (Kaufman not wanting to take McKee's course for fear of easy answers) lead to an opposite or greater effect than expected (McKee giving advice that Kaufman takes seriously).
If you can't find that stuff in LIFE then you, my friend, don't know CRAP about life! And why the FUCK are you wasting MY two precious hours with YOUR MOVIE? I don't have ANY use for it! I don't have any BLOODY use for it!!
@4ta2r Read story if you want an excellent book on the principles of writing. However, reading it - even a thousand times - won't make you a good writer... Just as reading a book on how to pitch a baseball won't instantly make you a major league pitcher. You need to practice for months on end, actively trying to write to the best of your ability and putting the principles into practice - until you understand them utterly and can write them in your sleep.
Most screenwriting gurus are full of shit. Full of absolute shit. McKee actually knows what he's talking about. I've never been to any of his seminars but most of what he says in Story is totally true.
this film has sooooo many layers to it its mind blowing,
people dont realize it
one example (a minor one) is simply how he screams out about voiceover and how bad it is, and thats actually charlie kauffman making a direct comment on himself, because the nicholas cage is actual in the middle OF a voiceover when brian cox screams out about how voiceovers are bad. this film is brilliant
@thomasgoodin While I agree it's brilliant, I disagree that "people don't realize it". Anyone who 'gets' this movie realizes what Kauffman is doing with the voiceover part.
@thomasgoodin - Thomas I was thinking about what you said, then I also noticed that after McKee says voiceovers are bad, when Kaufman walks out for lunch there is absolutely no sound and no voiceover hahah. Love Kaufman's sense of humour...
Theory is just a jump-off to real world application. Funny to see theorists so certain about choices & methods AFTER the sausage has been made. They seem oblivious to compromises made because a generator blew and you had to save the shot by going with handheld light, etc. Working writers, producers and even execs may touch base with the theory as sort of a palette-cleanse/get back to basics, use a few, discard the rest. But spout McKee in a production meeting and people will go, "Um, yeah..."
concur. Charlie's self-indulgent navel gazing script was quite the rage for us struggling screenwriters back 2002. That alligator was the perfect antidote.
"Self-indulgent navel gazing..." Doesn't the holy "write about what you know" edict imply that all effective writing will be navel-gazing?
His work does usually focus on only one person's experience. The rest of the ensemble always seems left out in the cold. This is probably what makes the scripts seem "self-indulgent." But I think this guy is a genius.
Right on my friend! Enjoy it well. Well "enjoy" is a strange word, since It is a very serious piece. But there are some very serious actors at work in it. Philip Seymour Hoffman does very well. Also, Emily Watson and Samantha Morton are both in it! So I was guaranteed to love that. Great actors. The little girl actor is a gem, too.
Big fan of all of them. Tom Noonan is also awesome. A great movie he made called "What Happened Was..." is worth locating. There is a small clip here on yt.
I saw the clip you mention. It looked good. He is very good in the Charlie Kaufman piece too. He seems to give very thoughtful, understated performances, such as Richard Jennings is capable of.
Yes, McKee is perhaps the biggest egomaniac asshole you'll ever have the misery of seeing. At least 50% of the seminar is his verbal masturbation, while his minions guffaw, hoping he'll read their screenplay. And the whole time you're thinking "if this guy's the guru why is the best he did an episode of Columbo?"
yeah, i have to half agree with you. But the guy does know what he's talking about. As to the "He's never written anything" crit that a lot people give him, I think it's a matter of some people are better "teachers" and "theorists" ... its what the students do with those tools, not what he did with them.
Its half craft and half talent, and anyone can learn craft, with the right teacher.
he's an actor who knows how to tweak a script. i went and it was better than any of my classes when I got my Masters. Think of all the great basketball coaches who never won a title, or the announcers who can analyze a game but never set foot on the field. That's what he does. he knows the craft.
Aristotle wrote the Poetics, which stands the test of time, yet never wrote a play. He's kind of like that.
Yeah the ability to articulate this stuff, to communicate it in different cities all over the world, that's an incredible gift. I've bought lots of books on writing and I'm astonished at the miserable trash people will try and publish on this subject. Besides I think McKee has had 12 optioned?
Robert McKee is a LIVING LEGEND. I too have attended the 36 hr STORY SEMINAR--(and wanted to hug him at the end too)LOL! If you're a WRITER serious about your writes--- McKee is your man. No Holds Barred.
no, he isnt. I took his Story seminar in los angeles a few weeks ago and he is one of the best teachers i ever had, at the end i ust wanted to hug him.
PFT brought me here (:
enriqueic 2 weeks ago
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enriqueic 2 weeks ago
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deenajuliette 1 year ago
quite possibly one of the best scenes in the history of cinema
clinker243 1 year ago
@clinker243 agreed!
baillou2 1 year ago
Anyone who's read "Story" might catch this little nugget of brilliance: while Kaufman is narrating how he doesn't want to take McKee's course, only to listen to McKee's advice on narration, McKee is drawing a diagram of "the gap": the moment in a story where one's actions (Kaufman not wanting to take McKee's course for fear of easy answers) lead to an opposite or greater effect than expected (McKee giving advice that Kaufman takes seriously).
And THAT is why this is one of my favorite films.
Spaztique 1 year ago
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ayashadilrukshi 1 year ago
If you can't find that stuff in LIFE then you, my friend, don't know CRAP about life! And why the FUCK are you wasting MY two precious hours with YOUR MOVIE? I don't have ANY use for it! I don't have any BLOODY use for it!!
bareknuckle42 1 year ago
So SHOULD you listen to Robert Mckee, or is he just a fake like all the other gurus?
4ta2r 1 year ago
@4ta2r He's authentic. A lot of the biggest films in have had his contribution - this film, for example.
qqs764 1 year ago
@4ta2r Read story if you want an excellent book on the principles of writing. However, reading it - even a thousand times - won't make you a good writer... Just as reading a book on how to pitch a baseball won't instantly make you a major league pitcher. You need to practice for months on end, actively trying to write to the best of your ability and putting the principles into practice - until you understand them utterly and can write them in your sleep.
Mckee's good, but you have to be too.
Stairc 1 year ago
*Amarcord
*Gummo
muertemiamor 1 year ago
Most screenwriting gurus are full of shit. Full of absolute shit. McKee actually knows what he's talking about. I've never been to any of his seminars but most of what he says in Story is totally true.
TulseLuper 1 year ago
this film has sooooo many layers to it its mind blowing,
people dont realize it
one example (a minor one) is simply how he screams out about voiceover and how bad it is, and thats actually charlie kauffman making a direct comment on himself, because the nicholas cage is actual in the middle OF a voiceover when brian cox screams out about how voiceovers are bad. this film is brilliant
thomasgoodin 3 years ago 4
@thomasgoodin While I agree it's brilliant, I disagree that "people don't realize it". Anyone who 'gets' this movie realizes what Kauffman is doing with the voiceover part.
mooseclamps 2 years ago 2
anyone who watches* this movie realizes it....
fixed.
RealJollyRoger 2 years ago
@thomasgoodin - Thomas I was thinking about what you said, then I also noticed that after McKee says voiceovers are bad, when Kaufman walks out for lunch there is absolutely no sound and no voiceover hahah. Love Kaufman's sense of humour...
benphua 1 year ago
@thomasgoodin uh, DUUUHHH!!!!
captross07 1 year ago
@captross07 i hope you get molested by your father
thomasgoodin 1 year ago
@thomasgoodin I hope a tranny hooker gives you AIDS.
captross07 1 year ago
@thomasgoodin Yeah, that irony caught me too :)
arministrator 1 year ago
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@thomasgoodin Yeah, that irony caught me too :)
arministrator 1 year ago
@thomasgoodin everyone notices that thomasgoodin, stop trying to show off
lkbl 6 months ago 15
@thomasgoodin No shit sherlock.
dantethepilgrim 1 month ago
Comment removed
olivergr 3 weeks ago
@thomasgoodin your dumbass comment was even more amusing than the clip, which is quite the compliment...
olivergr 3 weeks ago
I do love this scene. McKee is right too. How can anyone argue with what he just said?
Well said Mr. Mckee (um, I mean Mr. Kaufman)..lol
baillou2 3 years ago 3
Theory is just a jump-off to real world application. Funny to see theorists so certain about choices & methods AFTER the sausage has been made. They seem oblivious to compromises made because a generator blew and you had to save the shot by going with handheld light, etc. Working writers, producers and even execs may touch base with the theory as sort of a palette-cleanse/get back to basics, use a few, discard the rest. But spout McKee in a production meeting and people will go, "Um, yeah..."
mclent1 3 years ago
concur. Charlie's self-indulgent navel gazing script was quite the rage for us struggling screenwriters back 2002. That alligator was the perfect antidote.
agnernai 3 years ago
"Self-indulgent navel gazing..." Doesn't the holy "write about what you know" edict imply that all effective writing will be navel-gazing?
His work does usually focus on only one person's experience. The rest of the ensemble always seems left out in the cold. This is probably what makes the scripts seem "self-indulgent." But I think this guy is a genius.
Villagejonesy 3 years ago
Yes. A genius. My copy of SYNECDOCHE arrives tomorrow. Mind feast is imminent.
agnernai 3 years ago
Right on my friend! Enjoy it well. Well "enjoy" is a strange word, since It is a very serious piece. But there are some very serious actors at work in it. Philip Seymour Hoffman does very well. Also, Emily Watson and Samantha Morton are both in it! So I was guaranteed to love that. Great actors. The little girl actor is a gem, too.
Villagejonesy 3 years ago
Big fan of all of them. Tom Noonan is also awesome. A great movie he made called "What Happened Was..." is worth locating. There is a small clip here on yt.
agnernai 3 years ago
I saw the clip you mention. It looked good. He is very good in the Charlie Kaufman piece too. He seems to give very thoughtful, understated performances, such as Richard Jennings is capable of.
Villagejonesy 3 years ago
I love this movie!
milleralive 3 years ago
I do too!
CrzyJ1984 3 years ago
GOD HELP YOU IF YOU USE VOICE OVER!!!! omg classic
willharaldson 3 years ago
OMG. I love this movie, especially with my McKee background, keeping his book close like a bible. This scene had me on the floor. Thanks for posting.
JunebugPresentsLLC 3 years ago
Amo esta pelicula!! sobre todo esta escena!! X)
KNTIfilms 3 years ago
Brian Cox is brilliant in that 2 minutes. A great scene, so convincing that it's hard not to agree with what he's saying there.
BigxxBang 3 years ago
Yes, McKee is perhaps the biggest egomaniac asshole you'll ever have the misery of seeing. At least 50% of the seminar is his verbal masturbation, while his minions guffaw, hoping he'll read their screenplay. And the whole time you're thinking "if this guy's the guru why is the best he did an episode of Columbo?"
cubastatue 3 years ago
yeah, i have to half agree with you. But the guy does know what he's talking about. As to the "He's never written anything" crit that a lot people give him, I think it's a matter of some people are better "teachers" and "theorists" ... its what the students do with those tools, not what he did with them.
Its half craft and half talent, and anyone can learn craft, with the right teacher.
Oh, yeah, and he's still an egomaniac! ;)
imponderables 3 years ago
he's an actor who knows how to tweak a script. i went and it was better than any of my classes when I got my Masters. Think of all the great basketball coaches who never won a title, or the announcers who can analyze a game but never set foot on the field. That's what he does. he knows the craft.
Aristotle wrote the Poetics, which stands the test of time, yet never wrote a play. He's kind of like that.
scamon01 3 years ago
Yeah the ability to articulate this stuff, to communicate it in different cities all over the world, that's an incredible gift. I've bought lots of books on writing and I'm astonished at the miserable trash people will try and publish on this subject. Besides I think McKee has had 12 optioned?
tonyirwin50 3 years ago
And why the FUCK are you wasting my two precious hours with your movie!?
OddEdges 3 years ago 2
I LOVE THIS SCENE!
thank you! when i see it, i came to life again
Blopa64 3 years ago
My favorite scene in the movie! Thanx for posting.
The McKee book is very funny and very insightful . Along with Jerry Cheaver's book i'd say it's the best book on storytelling around.
Francologne 3 years ago
Robert McKee is a LIVING LEGEND. I too have attended the 36 hr STORY SEMINAR--(and wanted to hug him at the end too)LOL! If you're a WRITER serious about your writes--- McKee is your man. No Holds Barred.
PlayboysKitti 4 years ago
AHHHH this scene is so awesome. Cox's cameo role has to be one of the greatest in film history. Please Mr Kaufmann write a film about Cox's Mckee
murrayg 4 years ago
In all that toughness, McKee happens to be very right. EVERYTHINGS DOES happen in the world, but all at the same fucking time.
IntellectualJunior 4 years ago
thanks so much for putting this up. i love this scene
windupbird13 4 years ago
what a scene in what a movie!
kajet1 4 years ago
I read McKee's book and found it rather good. Is he really an asshole in person?
thejackal7137 4 years ago
no, he isnt. I took his Story seminar in los angeles a few weeks ago and he is one of the best teachers i ever had, at the end i ust wanted to hug him.
ivandalito 4 years ago
Could you post the scene right after this one, where McKee and Kaufman have their cafe "conference"?
Polonius571 4 years ago
I love it
Polonius571 4 years ago