Calls for Separation of Religion and State in Lebanon

[Faisal0200]

Seperation of Religion and State...? I think it's about fucking time xD!

:)

[Fawazawar]

Separation of state and religion is the only key to prosperity and stabilty of Lebanon. This movement is got to move forward by launching a donation fund to educate the many ignorants out there.

[nadajundi]

There will be a Lebanese 24 hour sit in this friday 18 march defending civil rights especially civil marriages and separation of religion and state :D

[nadajundi]

There will be a Lebanese 24 hour sit in this friday 18 march defending civil rights especially civil marriages and separation of religion and state :D

[MrMARKMANSON]

I See The Gay Flag (A)Haha

[MrSweetlife92]

SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISM FOR LEBANON SECULARISMMMMMMMM

[ass711]

these people are just anti-lebanese, brought in by foreigners from backwater diasporas in the west (UK, US) to disrupt lebanon and destroy the beautiful watan, either that or they are just former communists trying to destroy and ban religion (an unlikely situation in lebanon). egalitarianism means that no religion or party can take over the country, and that each religion/sect or party is divided equally based on the religious make-up or their party preferences.

[ass711]

egalitarianism is not going to ever go out of lebanon unless all religions there are abolished. secularism is the practice of removing religion from public life and banning religion in public with the eventual goal of encouraging people to become irreligious. in the video, the slogans of the demonstrators is

'what is your sect, none of your business',

that more than clear that the people demonstrating here are either atheist, agnostic, or irreligious.

[rogan71]

@ass711 - NO! Secularism is removing religion from politics...It has NOTHING to do with removing it from public life. In fact it guarantees freedom to worship whomever you choose. If you have religion intertwined with politics then that freedom is irradiated.

[ass711]

@rogan71 NO! Secularism is removing religion from public life, perfect examples are Turkey and France. (continued)

[rogan71]

@ass711 - NO IT ISN'T! look it up "Secularism is the concept that government or other entities should exist separately from religion and/or religious beliefs." France and Turkey are completely different....Secular countries are the most peaceful and successful on the planet... America ISN'T at all a secular nation...In EVERY secular nation in Europe there is 100% freedom of religion.....You are 100% wrong on almost every point!

[ass711]

@rogan71 now you're contradicting yourself, you said

"NO! Secularism is removing religion from politics"

so is it politics from religion or government from religion, make up your mind

NO, france and turkey aren't different, because they're constitution has state enshrined and encorced 'secularism' (either French 'laicite' or Turkish 'Kemalism'),

[ass711]

@rogan71 thankfully both turkey and france separate religion from state, politics, and public life so whichever definition you choose it will still describe turkey and france both secular nations

if EVERY nation in europe is secular like you said then by that logic turkey and france are secular (both european nations) and it further includes the UK which you later admitted is not secular, there you go again! contradicting yourself, no it is rather you who is 100% wrong on every point not me

[rogan71]

@ass711 - I see your point, but if every practice of every religious tradition was allowed we'd have public stoning and animal sacrifice in every town square....People are still free to practice their faith in secular societies....I said secularism separates religion from government not from public life...There's no contradiction....Turkey is secular and still a muslim country, and I used the UK as an example of the it working...You seem to have missed my point.

[ass711]

@rogan71 i want you to see how 'islamic' turkey is (i doubt it can even be called muslim)

/watch?v=-akFau_nlNY

/watch?v=eGIyXMcCas8

/watch?v=oycLimZDzZU

/watch?v=7mUPT2NpMj8

when you 'separate' religion from public life, you risk corrupting the religion more, as its followers stop practising it the correct way and deviate the teachings.

(cont)

[rogan71]

@ass711 - But no one is calling for the removal of religion from public life...Only from politics....If you need political leaders to enforce a religion then it is already corrupted....Islam is a mess. You have Saudi clerics calling for women to breast feed men and that Pokemon is part of a Zionist conspiracy...This is what happens when you let mentally ill, uneducated illiterates dictate religious morals to the people.

[ass711]

@rogan71

christianity has been corrupted from its original teachings (as outlined in the bible) as people deviated from its true teachings through secularism (as it has been practiced in america and western europe)

the same things are happening to islam in turkey

[ass711]

@rogan71 (continuing) if secularism is merely separation of religion and politics, then by that logic the islamic monarchy of saudi arabia is 'secular', since it doesn't have religion in politics (it only has islam in the state and society through sharia). in fact saudi arabia has no politics because it has no politicans since it's an ABSOLUTE monarchy (i.e no debates, parliament, elections).

[rogan71]

@ass711 - On that rationale, the UK isn't secular either as the Queen is the head of the church! But in the real world we know that she wields no political power, unlike the Saudi royals. If you think there is ONE Islamic country that has successfully separated religion from politics then you are living in a complete fantasy.It took Christianity 1500 years to begin to manage it...I give Islam another 500!

[ass711]

@rogan71 if secularism is merely separation of religion and politics, then by that logic america is NOT a secular nation since it has religion involved in politics regularly (i.e. during presidential elections obama was questioned about his religion, sarah palin used religion during election, christian zionists continue to pressure america to keep supporting israel because of their armageddon prophecy of jesus 2nd coming and killing all jews). (continued)

[ass711]

@rogan71 (continuing) so don't go telling me that secularism is the mere separation of religion and politics, because in theory and practice, seculrism is the separation of religion from politics, state, AND public life. if it guarantees the freedom to worship, then how will muslims apply their sharia laws in a 'secular state'? (continued)

[rogan71]

@ass711 - Muslims can and do practice Sharia in civil cases in many secular European countries....What "way of life" does secularism impose? Where in Britain, Scandinavia, France, Holland etc is there ONE way of life?

In fact if you can name me ONE instance where secularism has infringed on religious freedom I will concede the point to you!

[ass711]

@rogan71 "In fact if you can name me ONE instance where secularism has infringed on religious freedom I will concede the point to you!"

france bans the burka and other religious symbols in the schools, switzerland bans minarets, calls are being made in netherlands to BAN THE QURAN, most european countries (PARTIAL exception in the UK) have laws prohibiting polygamy while allowing gays to marry under the justification of 'freedom'

need i continue?

i am waiting for your concession...

[ass711]

@rogan71 if a man wants more than 1 wife isn't that an infringement of his religious freedom? of course it is. if a couple want their divorce carried out the way according to sharia instead through secular courts, isn't that their religious freedom to practice their religion the way they want to? of course, (continued)

[ass711]

@ass711 (continuing) but instead secular states and in fact secularism in general will infringe upon that freedom, demonstrating instead that it does NOT guarantee religious freedom but instead imposes its own way of life upon others.

[MasterAdam100]

If I want to buy a car or some alcohol on a Sunday or if I want to run for office and not have to believe in a god, I will do so! But for that to happen, "Blue Laws" must be abolished in America!

I applaud these brave people. The Lebanese have my up most respect!

[darkillity]

When will our Arab World wake up? Secularism is the way to go!

[adzug]

if we cud only separate the secular societies from the religous base countries on common philosophy, in a free mkt world of ideas rlig wud wither unable to compete with scientific secular societies.well take computers and science, they can keep the bible torah and koran.

[xRSCx]

Hezbollah have all interest in secularism.

They have renounced to islamic state, saying lebanon have to many religions.

And people are dumb, if they believe Hezbollah rule Lebanon alone...

Must important, since zionist criminal war in 2006, all partys in Lebanon are turing to Syria, making peace with them :)

Secularism = bad to zionist.

[xRSCx]

Good idea, hezbollah needs more power :)

People in west dont know, but in Lebanon, Hezbollah ant rule lebanon, if there leader is shia muslim. Presidente must be christian, and prime minister, sunni muslim.

[eyeisyou]

as long as you have types like hezbollah in your country and the syrians and iranians controlling the country from behind the scenes lebanon will never be able to get ahead.

so get those crazy jihadis out of your country!! they will only attract war and famine to your fine country!

[garrett2104]

Applause.

[XlinkK280]

Good job guys, the middle-east needs a reform!! Hell, Europe to haha.

And when we get of Oil, everything will be a lot peacefully in the world!

[guitarzeroh]

secular or bust; who wants to bust, honestly? 2010 baby!

[Androly]

Yay for Lebanon!

[Atheistbatman]

Good luck! The US has only been trying this for over 200 years with moderate success.

[QPOproZaC]

#FTW

[yo1o2eggs]

awesome!

[up2trix]

this is the kind of news that makes me optimistic about the world we live in. slowly but surely the forces of reason are prevailing against superstition that permeates humanity.

[MITHWORLD1]

@up2trix  me too ;)

[ilovepanslabyrinth]

@up2trix

Behind you all the way

I'm from New Zealand, proud I never had to go to a christian school

[Skoda130]

@up2trix I totally agree. To civilization in the Arabic world!

[0debug]

@up2trix Regarding optimism: yes, I also get glad when I see videos like this. It is hard to know whether this is representive of the whole Middle-East sentiment though. Some videos on youtube indicate that there _are_ those who say straight out in TV that a secular system is preferable. On the other hand, there are many islamist videos as well. It is hard to know which side(s) will prevail.

[up2trix]

Lebanon #FTW

[AkataBackUp]

Slowly, but surely, common-sense and reason seem to increasingly penetrate the Muslim world...

[mrgne1]

this video gives me so much hope for the future of our species

[prgalois]

Great comments on this video!

Bravo to this video, and bravo for all of you posting your good comments.

[LatinFreethinker]

There is hope for all us yet.... I bow to the bravery of these my fellow human beings.

[prgalois]

@LatinFreethinker  I agree

[kaiser1977ful]

Few small steps for those men but giants and important for mankind

[sonnygll]

Damn it! Even Lebanon is more progressive than us (America) now!

[AllHeathens1]

@sonnygll you do know that the USA was the first secular country...

[sonnygll]

@AllHeathens1

Of course. I'm just pointing out how much religion is inserted into government. It's really only been since the 1950's though. I'm also joking.

[AllHeathens1]

@sonnygll Yeah I agree. I think I was prob a bit fast at commenting. Seems can't delete comments anymore.

[DraskyVanderhoff]

I'm happy to see so many people against religion. I hope you get good result and change Lebanon

[slLLyhumans]

WOW thats awesome .

Living in America you get accustomed to the idea that all of the middle is made up of muslim finatics . Its good to see something contrary to that view .

Thumbs up !

[Xjak]

A toast to Lebanon, bravo!

[91741]

Great Job!

[msginca]

Awesome

[jeebersjumpincryst]

GO LEBANON!!!!!!!!

[Deioth]

Good luck, Lebanon. Maybe you can show America how it's supposed to be done XD

[fcdog555]

@Deioth America being a secular nation=failing:p

[Nerusai]

It's about time that Libanon went secular! My heart would cheer if this was made to be!

[123Atheist]

Awesome

[soulsanctuarymusic1]

fucking awesome!! about time we started to see stuff like this in the news!!

[ph4re9ooo1]

Good for them.

[HenryClayWIN]

sweet! Now if only we could get America to separate church and state...

[interstellarwonder]

@HenryClayWIN don't forget canada too

[h8red42]

"Bravo!"* i am standing and applauding.

[riotguards]

these people are exstremely smart

why can other countries learn from labanon

[jambimon]

There's hope after all, mean while the U.S. is moving in the opposite direction, wha!

[1deanwdaniel]

we're pull n for ya!!

[0mni42]

Woohoo!! Go Lebanon!!

[InternalCompass]

Good luck Lebanon!

[Wallyrus]

Religion has NO place in politics. Not only does it pose a conflict of interests, it's just plain unprofessional. In any other job, if you said, "I'm not going to do it your way, I'm going to do it THIS way because god told me to", you would be out on your ass.

[AvatarOfAvatar]

Religion = For the stupids

[JihadOfTheSoul]

There are More Muslims in Germany than Lebanon

[EmmaDelamare]

At last a story from Lebanon that is hopeful.

[bynumjimmy]

Good for Lebanon.

[kalamain]

YAY!!! Way to go!

Hope this is just the first in many steps to a true secular state for you.

I think that just getting something positive on the TV and in the world media will help you no end.

Good luck!

[jockay]

Go Lebanon!

[philthy122]

unimaginable even 10 years ago. Fantastic first step toward the age of reason.

[calgore5]

progress where  making it everyday

[ZergAteu]

Great! Good work Lebanon! Keep it up! Break the walls of ignorance and tribalism!

[loosekarrott]

this is grand news!

[losarman]

good on you Lebanon. I hope that it all works out for you

[zoxovox]

Luminifecals, lucifecals, photocoproids, photostercoids, luminicoproids, luministercoids, luxifecals, luxistercals, luxicoproids ... lol it just goes on and on

[zoxovox]

@zoxovox ack that was meant for another thread delete my posts.

[larryishere1]

Praise Allah! Democracy is finally sinking in!.... Hey.... I'm not the bitch of the leader!

[Saukko31]

And so it begins...

[GatorHighlights3]

Good for the Lebanese.

[MonaalizMJiheartU]

Great to see my fathers country being this open minded, I guess being ex Muslim and hating religion is in my genes or something, my dad was secular to, I always thought I was some kind of black sheep, but in Lebanon there seem to me allot of open minded people :)

If they do become secular I will go visit, I've always wanted to go to Lebanon since my dad died when I was young I've not been there, never even seen my family :)

[wildnine00]

Baby steps. Baby steps. I was born 100 years too soon.

[wickedlick]

Nice to see

[DeSwiss]

Religion ruins EVERYTHING.

[lanceawatt]

Its's difficult not to appear arrogant when you come across people who's lives are based on a peter pan style fairy tale.

[Eokam]

im so glad. good job lebanon

[InnerSmile72]

Yeah!!!! that gives you a good feeling all over, people dancing, freedom celebrated, hope for the future

[dayati]

Good job Lebanon. Now I hope every country takes steps to become truly secular, including the USA (which is only "technically" secular).

[eatingperson]

That's really cool to see. I always assumed Lebanon would have been pretty Islamic. Good for them to be able to do these kinds of things without having their heads cut off.

[ubermenschification]

@eatingperson Lebanon is not an islamic country and it has never been through its history

[mironowak]

I cannot believe that in this day and age a religious/sectarian affiliation would be stated on anybody's ID...

All the best to the People of Lebanon.

[Chiflado21]

@mironowak There are several countries where one's religion as to be stated on the ID card. Egypt, Indonesia. And you can't leave it blank, you have to give one of the officially recognized religions in the countries.

[mironowak]

@Chiflado21

Thanks mate for that info. reg. shameful - state sanctioned labelling of people.

What about "non-god -botherers" ( like myself) in the countries you mentioned ?

It is a tragicomic if not outright stupid situation.

[Chiflado21]

@mironowak Well, you need to say which religion you belong to, else you can't get an ID card, can't get married, can't study etc. So, basically, you have to lie or be excluded from society. Yes, it is a stupid situation and contradicts the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I had to be hospitalized in Indonesia last year, they asked me my religion as part of the administrative paperwork, I couldn't leave a blank. I just had to lie because I didn't want to dies from typhoid fever.

[mironowak]

@Chiflado21

Im just wondering, how would they react if one declares oneself as a scientologist or Mormon (not to mention Jewish) ?

Did you ask for a Christian ( just assuming) doctor and nurses? :-)

How do they solve sunni vs shiya problem in the hospital system there ?

[Chiflado21]

@mironowak You can only fill in something that's part of the 6 officially recognised religions (Islam, Catholicism, Protestantism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism), so you have to pick the one that hurts less. You will be treated with the same staff as everyone else, they only ask it for paperwork. They don't make an official distinction between Sunni or Shi'a (it's mostly Sunni there). Point is, you can't get hospital treatment if you insist on your "no religion" status

[renaudldw]

lebanon guys are hot.

[Hopeful71]

Lebanon is moving forward the USA is moving back...how long before we are the (by comparison) third world...with nukes.

[Nexius8]

Good work Lebanon but a solution is they could all join the Jedi sect.

[MilitantAtheistAhole]

@Nexius8 You do not approve of this religion.

[ubersteigen]

Good for Lebanon.

[mylittleturd]

Nice to hear some good news for once.

[ericaj58]

Hope lebonon moves in the right way.

[TheCaptainLulz]

A secular gathering, unremarkable. A secular gathering IN THE FRIGGIN ARAB WORLD, now that is something!

[MatchCard]

@TheCaptainLulz Got a problem with arabs >.>

Not all Arabs (as you can see in this video) are crazy muslim Jihadists.

[TheCaptainLulz]

@MatchCard you read me wrong. It was that a muslim (though not expressly fundamentalist) state would allow it in the first place. Not to mention that it would be covered on MEMRI. Im quite aware of what you said, I know a few myself.

[MatchCard]

@TheCaptainLulz Oh yeah, sorry for the misunderstand. Knowing a lot of Lebanese people myself, the majority of them are close minded and would see this as the act of the devil or something.... so this is surprising.

[TheJawsusNSexmanShow]

@MatchCard not the younger generations

[grenangle]

@TheCaptainLulz The Lebanese are not Arabs.

[UTubeBrowzer]

Why can't english writing be as beautiful as arabic?

[SecularResponse]

Thanks a lot! Excellent report! I had no idea that the secular arm was so vibrant and strong in Lebanon, or that there are 18 sects! These people deserve our support and respect!

[caseyrainer]

It is a huge step for those brave Lebanese...

You have my support..

[niginit]

They finally figured it out!

Good for Lebanon!

Remove religion and you solve 99.9% of all problems. It's like Lysol for germs!

[region1111]

Good for them. I hope they're successful in bringing their country into the modern age.

[DaShot2daheart]

Brave people i support you!

[Sanngot]

It's things like this that make me feel a little bit better about humanity. Go Lebanon! Show the middle east how it's done!

[ceresWar]

fuck religion, atheism for life

[dannypantsgm]

Good for them!

[redcloak676]

This is fantastic. Secularism is something all nationalities and faiths can get behind. Let's do it.  Forget about religion and let's talk about people.

[JPO1618]

Let's hope that secular states become the fad of the 21st century. Historians will look back on the 2000's as the century of the rise of a secular and rational world.

[DoctorE0]

Religion and state is like the ocean and oil spill... VERY BAD

Good luck to them!

[Quionic7]

@DoctorE0

I see what you did there

[Eopyk]

This is posetive news . Long live secularism :) We have Turkey and Azerbajan as muslim majority with a secular state. Not it is Libanons turn

All love from me Jasmine

[Darkfirebrand]

So nice to see a nonviolent march for a change, anywhere.

[IFloridaMotocrossI]

American citizens has forgotten what it's like to be denied rights based on religious discrimination. The US has been spoiled too long with freedom, so now the idiots think things would be better if Christianity ran the scene.

[FaganRoberts]

Considering the anti-US sentiment throughout the mideast, due primarily to our blanket unevenhanded support for Zionist Israel, the minute the word gets out these people want a secular, religious free government, similar to the one the US has under the 1st Amendment or Art. 6 US Constitution, the measure will be defeated. Sad, so sad.

Best of luck anyways!

[region1111]

@FaganRoberts - pathetic, trying to blame the country's infatuation with religion on israel, just like people like you try to blame everything on israel.

[FaganRoberts]

@region1111 The US has largely been under a religious delusion, to varying degrees, long before the state of Israel was created in 1948. I don't blame everything on Israel. I stated that America's slanted infatuation with Israel is the primary reason, among others, why Islamists hate the United States. It's a foreign policy issue based on Protestant religious adherence to Zionism and to a Jewish racist "god's chosen people" complex, which obscures rationality, reason and clear thinking.

[region1111]

@FaganRoberts there were anti-jew and anti-christian statements and sentiments in the koran long before there was ever any united states or israel. The muslims have always hated the infidels (especially jews and christians) - and israel is just a convenient excuse to hate them even more.

Also, you calling jews racist is you projecting your own pathetic racism onto them. Not every jew believes in that "chosen people" crap. Israel was created originally to escape persecution from people like you.

[Phelan666]

@region1111 Have you read the Koran? Not trying to start an argument, just curious.

On an unrelated note, I cannot begin to respect any country that does not separate religion from government and buisiness from either. Which means I hate all the world governments lol. (Just to clarify, when I say buisiness from government, I don't mean no regulation. I mean no corruption.)

[FaganRoberts]

@region1111 Your first paragraph is true, but it has nothing to do with what I've previously stated. Your throwing in a knee jerk red herring in for some reason.

I never stated Jews were racist. I stated any Jew who believes that they are specifically god's chosen people is a racist. And I'll go one step further.... insane. Much like many Nazis felt that whites were the superior race. Stop reading into things that aren't there before you jump to silly reactionary conclusions.

[region1111]

@FaganRoberts you have a hard time linking ideas and making proper associations, so I'll have to carefully articulate everything for you.

"I stated that America's slanted infatuation with Israel is the primary reason,among others, why Islamists hate the United States"

No, the primary reason islamists have a problem with the USA is because hatred of the infidel is deeply embedded in islamic culture. References to hating infidels/jews/christians were around long before Israel or the USA existed.

[FaganRoberts]

@region1111 I previously stated I agree with you. But for some reason you seem to ignore contemporary international relations. You can't ignore the fact that, AMONG OTHER THINGS (which I agree is religion based) uneven US support for Israel is the primary reason today's Islamists disdain the US. How can you disagree with this simple observation? Prior to the 1960's we had no issues with Arabs. Prior to 1948 Arabs and Jews coexisted in Palestine.

[HanSDevX]

I think this movement will fail, they'll problaby recieve some threats from their islamic neighbors, i'm just supposing.

[Muzzleflash219]

go lebanese

[dugges]

Fair play to them!!!!!

[KingMacintosh]

Go Lebanon. America needs to do the same and get Christianity out of their politics.

[OlSpazzy]

Good luck to them.

[666norton420]

very interesting.

maybe this secular fad will catch on....

;d