Such dialog isn't radical nor has it changed in 40 years. In the 60's & 70's Hippy's used the same language to express their trips. I know, I was one. I 'dropped' huge doses of Sandoz acid over 50 times till it lost its appeal. The notion that LSD is a key to open doors to new spiritual worlds is delusional. It's a means to an end--namely for personal exploration. We project our thoughts & desires onto the real world. Shamanism exploits that fact. But like dense fog it vanishes in the sunlight.
My 1st trip was fantastical NOT spiritual. In my early 20s I tripped over 50 times. I only did pure liquid Sandoz LSD. I stuck a needle into a small vial of clear liquid & put a drop on my tongue. It tingled for days. Within 10 mins my senses were hyper; time slowed, gravel sparkled like diamonds, I saw oddities everywhere, kaleidoscopic colors swirled even with eyes closed. Near-by traffic noise was doppler-like. 2 hrs later I wanted it to end. Weird dreams assailed my sleep 36 hrs later.
The outcome of all psychedelic experience is dependent upon one's mood. A bad mood makes achieving positive results all but impossible. That's not to say that some kind of personal insight isn't possible. It means that during the psychedelic experience moods are dynamic things--we react instantly to external & internal stimuli--more quickly than normal. Therefore, we must be more vigilant & in control of our real-time reactions rather than the teachings of any specific guru, cult, or religion.
As city dwellers, most 1st time acid users will become profoundly affected by the opening up of the doors of perception as Huxley expressed it. The tight spaces of the city constrict the 'vision.' Farmers on the other hand 'see' the world in a different way than most city folk. I think most farmers will see the LSD experience much as the shaman does--connected to Nature rather than dislocated. The seasons have a profoundly different meaning as it pertains to crops and livestock maintenence.
Since science cannot prove or disprove the existence of spiritual worlds it's up to each of us to decide what's real. The imagination is a powerful tool. The ability to think rationally helps us all to determine fact from fiction. Taking LSD is like throwing a monkey wrench into a finely tuned thinking machine. The lines between the rational & real become distorted. Senses delightfully rearrange into flavored colors & visual sounds. But it's delusional. Temporary as fog in bright sunlight.
Im glad for people like Mr. Grof,one way or the other,because definitely,there is high sense of truth in whatever he knows.
However,I prefer steadily practices of Yoga,which is quite of process but whatever you achieve is yours and stays unlike with drugs,which also works but in very limited way,in the sense,it gives glimpse but wont let you stay right,so.
the blessings of all the saints and buddhas and gurus be upon you all. you are all beautiful beings who have touched and felt the warmth of your own divine selves. may it bring you the deepest gifts of the mystical and the divine states of consciousness. peace be upon you all now and always.
I really like what you said about spirituality and religion. I talk to my religious friends and I get a sense that they know less about the divine then I do. And I've never practised religion. I've only learned from my own journey. I've said fuck you god so many times and waited for the lighting to strike. I believe that's necessary to some degree to discover your own place in the cosmos. Your own divinity.
Honeslty ... I always felt like I shouldn't admit this but... I fell much MORE in tune with life when I'm on mushrooms. My intellectual power is greatly increased. I feel borderline psychic, I can feel energy. I can examine the multi layers of my mind! I can talk to God in me. I can create with ease. I learn so much. THen in the normal sober reality my learning is not even close. It's just a mundane state of being.
This is very fascinating stuff. Although I agree that there is no bad trip per say, would it be very stupid for a semi-schizophrenic/bipolar person to experience with Psychedelics? I recall it IS being used as therapy so...at the same time I cannot smoke marijuana because it worsens my condition
If I may answer. It has to be understood that our mental health system is the belief system that LABELS people with visionary experience 'schizophrenic, psychotic, bipolar'-----When thats dug, then we know that people HAVING visionary experience need support, because they are ALREADY having it. They wouldn't need psychedelics as they'd be superfluous
I've had this stuff happen to my mind without any drugs. The mind is able to it naturally, i think (depending on where you are psychologically), but of course its different, but essentially the same. Email me if u wanna talk about it.
The book kind of dated but the main theme has only become more relevant. (if that makes any sense) It is somewhat depressing to read now as the seventies were a long time ago, and since then we have generaly gone in the oposite directions of those suggested by Capra...still worth a read, should turn you onto a variety of other interesting minds.
Wow! You are incredibly helpful. If you don't mind, I have a couple other questions. One concern I have is that a bad trip might be psychologically scarring to me. I certainly will start on lower dosages, but there's a chance...
Anyway, thank you SO MUCH. I really appreciate your responding to me.
There has been a lot of negative things said about the entheogenic experience.
I don't like the term 'Bad Trip', i prefer 'Learning Experience'. And from my experience, 'bad trips' usually come from stuff you've not dealt with consciously, or from holding on (to an idea of yourself) - as always, let go! It's ok.
There is a possibility you will be physically sick. It may sound like hippie nonsense, but this sickness is often the throwing up of old, stale emotions. You'll feel better afterwards. (I believe this is even more so with Ayahuasca, but i have no experience so i can't say).
The best way to avoid a 'bad trip' is to prepare yourself (as best you can for an experience). Tidy up. Have fun. This is a ritual for you alone.
Since January, I have been very depressed, and my brain and body felt a "switch" into confiding in the ego and the path of thought in order to avoid emotions. I feel extremely unhealthy. I am numb to emotion. Looking for a way to cleanse myself spiritually, I came upon the idea of entheogen use. Is this dangerous in my current state?
The first thing to remember is they are not physically dangerous ---
it may be wise to state the obvious here - the mushrooms we are talking about are against the law in most countries. This makes it very difficult for you to grow your own.
Growing your own is good; You should always be sure of anything you put in your mouth, mushrooms are no different, also, growing your own provides time to research and prepare yourself for what may come (although keep in mind it's an experience - and despite similarities, it's different for everyone, and different every time).
Also, although you may know that your mushrooms are physically harmless, it could be useful to make a note of this should you decide to take any - at times you may not always believe it ;) - Remember it's the ego (world view, belief system, story) that's dying, not you. Remember also that for most of your life, this ego has been you - you'll know it's happening - just let go!
It has been said that they are an AWE FULL experience, and at what Terence McKenna called a 'Heroic Dose', it won't be something you'll ever forget (remembering of course that awe can be both +ve and -ve).
They are also a joyful experience. I use the metaphor of a blocked and bent pipe, separating 'you' from the 'one'. The more rigid the pipe, the more that old stale emotions will build up at the bends (the pipe and these bends being our personality).
The more dirt (that's the stuff we've experienced but not fully faced) that's in our pipe, the messier it's going to be unblocking it.
From my experience low doses push you (your point of consciousness) up the pipe so far, and higher doses take you higher, further out (there is a ceiling where more is simply wasted - Terence's Heroic Dose being the upper limit.)
Low doses are good (if hard work) if you fancy cleaning up some of your sh!t. Higher doses are great if you need an experience to confound your senses, a taste of the so much more than we ordinarily are.
The further out you travel, the more you may want to reflect on your experiences afterwards. The more you may want to reflect on other methods (body and breath work, music, etc) used to achieve similar results. I found the words of Ram Dass to be particularly useful in this respect.
One thing that everyone agrees upon when taking entheogens is the importance of set, setting, and support. That's the 'vibes' in you, the room, and anyone else present. If possible, avoid taking anything out of fear, anger, and desperation, with mushrooms being best taken in a spirit of adventure, acceptance, and wonder.
Ultimately you need to trust your self, your intuition, and accept responsibility for your own life. You'll know if you just need to go for a run to clear your head (a great idea), or if things are so bad you've nothing to lose (better to ditch the old ideas than the monkey suit.)
This is True, Dr Grof himself now teaches a breathing technique to access the same states.
However, just as Foods rich in vitamin C can be useful when a person is physically under the weather, so Mushrooms (another food remember) can be helpful in seeing through the noise of advertising and the Myth of Culture, enabling and aiding a Person to find their 'real Self'.
i'm not against mushrooms unless they are used the right way, just as shamans did, and the same thing for smells, they help a lot with getting into these states of consciousness
the music sucks. Fucking hell.
stellarshore 1 year ago
@stellarshore its from a movie called koyaanisqatsi, FYI
rodfrost3 4 months ago
Buddha called the transcendental dimensions the kayas (Sanskrit).
Delve deeply & the phase change to luminous being occurs.
The direction is laid out by the intuition masters you do not have to start from square one.
Just like the mycologist can benefit from previous knowledge of which mushrooms are poisonous & which are edible.
Wisdom is luminous awareness. Hate concepts are poisonous.
Compassion is evolutionary resulting in a
phase change into a luminous being like glacier to steam.
Starwheel6 1 year ago
You like this video. Thanks for the feedback! See more videos you liked.
Mathfails 1 year ago
love the backing track, from an amazing film KOYAANISQATSI,Life out of balance.
russellbar01 1 year ago
thank you for sharing diz. <3
Mathfails 1 year ago
Such dialog isn't radical nor has it changed in 40 years. In the 60's & 70's Hippy's used the same language to express their trips. I know, I was one. I 'dropped' huge doses of Sandoz acid over 50 times till it lost its appeal. The notion that LSD is a key to open doors to new spiritual worlds is delusional. It's a means to an end--namely for personal exploration. We project our thoughts & desires onto the real world. Shamanism exploits that fact. But like dense fog it vanishes in the sunlight.
metaspherz 1 year ago
My 1st trip was fantastical NOT spiritual. In my early 20s I tripped over 50 times. I only did pure liquid Sandoz LSD. I stuck a needle into a small vial of clear liquid & put a drop on my tongue. It tingled for days. Within 10 mins my senses were hyper; time slowed, gravel sparkled like diamonds, I saw oddities everywhere, kaleidoscopic colors swirled even with eyes closed. Near-by traffic noise was doppler-like. 2 hrs later I wanted it to end. Weird dreams assailed my sleep 36 hrs later.
metaspherz 1 year ago
The outcome of all psychedelic experience is dependent upon one's mood. A bad mood makes achieving positive results all but impossible. That's not to say that some kind of personal insight isn't possible. It means that during the psychedelic experience moods are dynamic things--we react instantly to external & internal stimuli--more quickly than normal. Therefore, we must be more vigilant & in control of our real-time reactions rather than the teachings of any specific guru, cult, or religion.
metaspherz 1 year ago
As city dwellers, most 1st time acid users will become profoundly affected by the opening up of the doors of perception as Huxley expressed it. The tight spaces of the city constrict the 'vision.' Farmers on the other hand 'see' the world in a different way than most city folk. I think most farmers will see the LSD experience much as the shaman does--connected to Nature rather than dislocated. The seasons have a profoundly different meaning as it pertains to crops and livestock maintenence.
metaspherz 1 year ago
Since science cannot prove or disprove the existence of spiritual worlds it's up to each of us to decide what's real. The imagination is a powerful tool. The ability to think rationally helps us all to determine fact from fiction. Taking LSD is like throwing a monkey wrench into a finely tuned thinking machine. The lines between the rational & real become distorted. Senses delightfully rearrange into flavored colors & visual sounds. But it's delusional. Temporary as fog in bright sunlight.
metaspherz 1 year ago
Im glad for people like Mr. Grof,one way or the other,because definitely,there is high sense of truth in whatever he knows.
However,I prefer steadily practices of Yoga,which is quite of process but whatever you achieve is yours and stays unlike with drugs,which also works but in very limited way,in the sense,it gives glimpse but wont let you stay right,so.
Thanks Mr.Grof and others.
Let's Go,Czech Go!! =)
denyseck2 2 years ago
the blessings of all the saints and buddhas and gurus be upon you all. you are all beautiful beings who have touched and felt the warmth of your own divine selves. may it bring you the deepest gifts of the mystical and the divine states of consciousness. peace be upon you all now and always.
theinkbrain 2 years ago
blessings...
IChoseTheRedPill 2 years ago
ah! now i see...
thank you.
live in peace.
theinkbrain 2 years ago
I really like what you said about spirituality and religion. I talk to my religious friends and I get a sense that they know less about the divine then I do. And I've never practised religion. I've only learned from my own journey. I've said fuck you god so many times and waited for the lighting to strike. I believe that's necessary to some degree to discover your own place in the cosmos. Your own divinity.
Iseeyoursoul 3 years ago 6
Honeslty ... I always felt like I shouldn't admit this but... I fell much MORE in tune with life when I'm on mushrooms. My intellectual power is greatly increased. I feel borderline psychic, I can feel energy. I can examine the multi layers of my mind! I can talk to God in me. I can create with ease. I learn so much. THen in the normal sober reality my learning is not even close. It's just a mundane state of being.
Iseeyoursoul 3 years ago 6
@Iseeyoursoul Psychedelics only gives you a small distorted glimpse of what you can achieve through meditation.
misterioustranger 1 year ago
This is very fascinating stuff. Although I agree that there is no bad trip per say, would it be very stupid for a semi-schizophrenic/bipolar person to experience with Psychedelics? I recall it IS being used as therapy so...at the same time I cannot smoke marijuana because it worsens my condition
Brownsweiger 3 years ago
If I may answer. It has to be understood that our mental health system is the belief system that LABELS people with visionary experience 'schizophrenic, psychotic, bipolar'-----When thats dug, then we know that people HAVING visionary experience need support, because they are ALREADY having it. They wouldn't need psychedelics as they'd be superfluous
zezt 3 years ago
I've had this stuff happen to my mind without any drugs. The mind is able to it naturally, i think (depending on where you are psychologically), but of course its different, but essentially the same. Email me if u wanna talk about it.
daveheet 3 years ago 2
The book kind of dated but the main theme has only become more relevant. (if that makes any sense) It is somewhat depressing to read now as the seventies were a long time ago, and since then we have generaly gone in the oposite directions of those suggested by Capra...still worth a read, should turn you onto a variety of other interesting minds.
laotsu7777 4 years ago
fritjof capra wrote two books that turned me onto grof. They are called Turning Point and Uncommon Wisdom.
laotsu7777 4 years ago
Hi, thanks for the info. i've had a copy of Turning Point on my 'to read' pile for some time, think i'll give it a go.
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
can anyone translate that to spanish? i dont understand all the themes
matomania 4 years ago
How do you put an experience like entheogens into words?
The comments read from the bottom up if that helps ;)
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
Thank you so so so much.
monkeys55 4 years ago
Wow! You are incredibly helpful. If you don't mind, I have a couple other questions. One concern I have is that a bad trip might be psychologically scarring to me. I certainly will start on lower dosages, but there's a chance...
Anyway, thank you SO MUCH. I really appreciate your responding to me.
monkeys55 4 years ago
Bad Trips?
There has been a lot of negative things said about the entheogenic experience.
I don't like the term 'Bad Trip', i prefer 'Learning Experience'. And from my experience, 'bad trips' usually come from stuff you've not dealt with consciously, or from holding on (to an idea of yourself) - as always, let go! It's ok.
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
There is a possibility you will be physically sick. It may sound like hippie nonsense, but this sickness is often the throwing up of old, stale emotions. You'll feel better afterwards. (I believe this is even more so with Ayahuasca, but i have no experience so i can't say).
The best way to avoid a 'bad trip' is to prepare yourself (as best you can for an experience). Tidy up. Have fun. This is a ritual for you alone.
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
1) being unable to accept your condition/the effects of the drug = tension
2) resistance to this tension = panic
3) panic will lead to a bad trip unless you accept whatever you are seeing/thinking and realize that it was only a trip and the effects of the drug
prepare yourself for the trip, be reasonably educated on the effects and what to expect from the drug and there will be NO possibility of a bad trip
joonboy 4 years ago 3
easier said then done tho
Rockyzach88 2 years ago
The first time i took Mushrooms, i took a 'Monkey Dose' - if i were a monkey and came upon them in a field, how many mushrooms would i eat?
I tried one (it didn't taste that good, but i knew they were physically harmless)
I ate a small hand-full (it felt about right)
Later, after i had adjusted to the initial wobbles in perception, and slight waves of nausea, it felt right (for me) to eat a few more...
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
After this i was off, a running Brave facing insurmountable rivers, racing the tide.
A rite of passage.
You will be altered by your experience.
You are altered by every thought that passes.
The next day you'll want time to reflect (longer if possible).
You know if it's the right time. No sense in rushing.
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
Since January, I have been very depressed, and my brain and body felt a "switch" into confiding in the ego and the path of thought in order to avoid emotions. I feel extremely unhealthy. I am numb to emotion. Looking for a way to cleanse myself spiritually, I came upon the idea of entheogen use. Is this dangerous in my current state?
monkeys55 4 years ago
Big Question ;)
The first thing to remember is they are not physically dangerous ---
it may be wise to state the obvious here - the mushrooms we are talking about are against the law in most countries. This makes it very difficult for you to grow your own.
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
Growing your own is good; You should always be sure of anything you put in your mouth, mushrooms are no different, also, growing your own provides time to research and prepare yourself for what may come (although keep in mind it's an experience - and despite similarities, it's different for everyone, and different every time).
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
Also, although you may know that your mushrooms are physically harmless, it could be useful to make a note of this should you decide to take any - at times you may not always believe it ;) - Remember it's the ego (world view, belief system, story) that's dying, not you. Remember also that for most of your life, this ego has been you - you'll know it's happening - just let go!
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
It has been said that they are an AWE FULL experience, and at what Terence McKenna called a 'Heroic Dose', it won't be something you'll ever forget (remembering of course that awe can be both +ve and -ve).
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
They are also a joyful experience. I use the metaphor of a blocked and bent pipe, separating 'you' from the 'one'. The more rigid the pipe, the more that old stale emotions will build up at the bends (the pipe and these bends being our personality).
The more dirt (that's the stuff we've experienced but not fully faced) that's in our pipe, the messier it's going to be unblocking it.
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
From my experience low doses push you (your point of consciousness) up the pipe so far, and higher doses take you higher, further out (there is a ceiling where more is simply wasted - Terence's Heroic Dose being the upper limit.)
Low doses are good (if hard work) if you fancy cleaning up some of your sh!t. Higher doses are great if you need an experience to confound your senses, a taste of the so much more than we ordinarily are.
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
The further out you travel, the more you may want to reflect on your experiences afterwards. The more you may want to reflect on other methods (body and breath work, music, etc) used to achieve similar results. I found the words of Ram Dass to be particularly useful in this respect.
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
One thing that everyone agrees upon when taking entheogens is the importance of set, setting, and support. That's the 'vibes' in you, the room, and anyone else present. If possible, avoid taking anything out of fear, anger, and desperation, with mushrooms being best taken in a spirit of adventure, acceptance, and wonder.
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
So would i recommend them?
Ultimately you need to trust your self, your intuition, and accept responsibility for your own life. You'll know if you just need to go for a run to clear your head (a great idea), or if things are so bad you've nothing to lose (better to ditch the old ideas than the monkey suit.)
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
As with everything in life, you get out what you put in.
You know yourself better than anyone and you hardly know your self.
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
i hope this helps, all the best, Simon
myfriendsimon 4 years ago
Person can reach these states even without psychedelics, find your real self and you'll start to understand
RojiUraBokuToKimiE 5 years ago
This is True, Dr Grof himself now teaches a breathing technique to access the same states.
However, just as Foods rich in vitamin C can be useful when a person is physically under the weather, so Mushrooms (another food remember) can be helpful in seeing through the noise of advertising and the Myth of Culture, enabling and aiding a Person to find their 'real Self'.
They are not the Way, they are a Way.
They are Natural, and they are Banned.
myfriendsimon 5 years ago
i'm not against mushrooms unless they are used the right way, just as shamans did, and the same thing for smells, they help a lot with getting into these states of consciousness
RojiUraBokuToKimiE 5 years ago
You're right. They should be treated with the upmost respect.
myfriendsimon 5 years ago
very true, great video
spawnfan101 5 years ago
What a MAN!!!
Stan grof is nothing less than a ntrue genius.
This guy managed to go through the veil and get back with useful infos for our species.
He invested almost all his life in the pursuit of the true meaning of the entheogen experience.
He is one of the few human beings I dream to encounter in my life.
Long life to STAN GROF!
xxredspadexx 5 years ago
hear! hear!
myfriendsimon 5 years ago
Alright! Koyaanisqatsi music! Good movie! Go Phillip Glass!
monkeys55 4 years ago