A Question Calvinist can't clearly directly answer, children that are beaten, some raped and even murdered, God preordained this before her birth is what a true Predestined Elected Calvinist believes, but will not admit it. examples are JonBenét Ramsey, Dennis Rader and John Wayne Gacy, Jr. who molested and killed 33 teenage boys.
In Romans 9 Paul is showing both sides of double predestination. He shows us Jacob the vessel of honor prepared beforehand for glory. Then he shows us Pharoah the vessel of dishonor prepared for distruction. God is the potter. Mankind is the lump. God is making one vessel for honor and another for dishonor. According to Paul, if you get what he is teaching you will ask, "Why does God find fault? For who has resisted His will?" The obvious implication is that noone has resisted God's will.
@tonytaylor2012 A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. Wait another clue, everyone that is pro calvin posting on utube videos, are white males, ask them, bet they are.....get it yet? still probably not.
4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.
God created Pharoah to make His power known so that His name would be declared in all the earth. When God hardened Pharoah's heart it became impossible for Pharoah to obey and let the people go. Pharoah didn't harden his own heart, but God said that He would harden Pharoah's heart. Romans 9 says He does that to whomever He wills. There is nothing passive about that.
"So then He has mercy on whom He will have mercy,and He hardens whom He will harden."Romans9:18 To the Calvinist: I contend this is a statement not of exclusivism,but a statement of inclusivism. For instance, if God decided to have mercy on those in the lake of fire,we have no reason for complaint.Why. Because of said statement--"He has mercy on whom he will have mercy." Actually God hardens everyone. Why?--For God has shut up all in disobedience that he might show mercy to all."Romans11:32
@741rjohnson A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero... Wait another clue, everyone that is pro calvin posting on utube videos, are white males, ask them, bet they are.....
How is it that God hardens the hearts of the reprobate "without actively intervening" in their hearts??? This video is clearly unscriptural. Double predestination means that God predetermines both election and reprobation before the creation of the world--that's true of both the supralapsarian view and the infralapsarian view. There is a decree to reprobation and that is clear in Scripture: Romans 9:11-13
The term "Double Predestination" is idiotically redundant. The non-elect are exactly that: not-predestinated to conform to the image of Christ and are therefore going to Hell. They are "appointed to damnation". If you don't like predestination, tough; God doesn't care what you like. His word is final. Christ died for the Church ONLY and His Church is made up of believers in His Word.
@dead'ed Huh? All have sinned, even the Elect, but Christ gave His life for His Church (Eph 5:25: Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;). You enter the Church by believing in Him. Belief in Jesus is the gift of God (Phil 1:29: For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;). Suffering conforms you to His image, which only the Elect are predestined to do (Rom 8:29). You're in error.
@tolar9 before the elect became saved what was they? sinners.. thats what the bible means when it says "For all have sinned and come short to the Glory o God"
@deadcell1 Did you miss the part where I agreed with that? We're all sinners; Elect and Non-elect. What's your point? What about my original comment do you disagree with? Your sin statements are irrelevant.
@tolar9 I agree with you to a certain extent unless with the part that is stated in your original comment when you state "Christ died for the church only" Which siginfies that he died to save the rightous. The rightous don't need saving the ungodly do.
@deadcell1 Actually, the Church is made up of all those who believe in Jesus as Messiah; no one is righteous (Rom 3:10). Either way, all humans are sinners (Rom 3:23), but only those who don't believe pay for their own sin and go to Hell. Clearly Christ didn't die for them or they wouldn't be in Hell (it would be double-jeopardy if Christ paid the price and then they had to pay it again, right?). And Ephesians 5:25 tells us Christ gave His life for the Church--the body of believers.
@tolar9 A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. Wait another clue, everyone that is pro calvin posting on utube videos, are white males, ask them, bet they are.....get it yet? still probably not.
Sorry, but I don't believe God's Heart can be harden. That's why He sent Jesus Christ. To prove to us His loving Power. If that's the case then life is not worth living. At least for me. A lot of things have been split and divided in the word. To me everything somwhat confused but when you read about the Father it's different. There is to much duality in this. Kind of confusing.
How can God God be passive to a choice of man.? Men have power and knowledge God does not possess?. Outside of God an autonomous power and knowledge.? God is interfering in independent power, knowledge.? ( not His own ) Fighting independent spirits out of control.? Where did flesh of man get power and knowledge.? Man has virtue and attribute to act independenly.? God is not passive but at perfect rest.There is no power but of God.God planned an ordained will.So Esau acted by his inner man ?
@polopowers1 A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero... Wait another clue, everyone that is pro calvin posting on utube videos, are white males, ask them, bet they are.....
Dude if God doesn't cause people to go to hell He just know who will go to hell and causes who will go to heaven, then why call it double pre-destination?
This really doesnt make sense if one really pay attention. "IF" God created one for hell, that means he put the attributes of hell in them to creat them for it. a attribute of hell is plainly SIN. No elequant of speech can change that fact my friend. So what is it man sinned cause he wanted to or God predestined him for hell which means he puts also the attributes of hell in them. It doesnt sound like a doulbe predestination he claiming but more like double minded about the Potter.
now we are predestin to be comformed to the image of his son, meaning we are predestin to be christ like. rom;8;29. now does that sound like God predestines his sheep to hell?no. but he does ordained people to hell. jude;4. the word predestination is for the believers only. by definition. preordained is God predetermine will. so is predestination but its not used in sending a man to hell. the word predestination is used only 6 times in the bible. its used when talking about a mans salvation.
to hell. now we know that man can not make a choice to come to God. theres nothing good in him niether does he seek after God,none seek after God not one. man can not go to hell even if he wants to, God has to preordain a man to hell.read; rom;9;20-21. read 2 peter; 2;10-22. these same people are in jude;4; we have to study the word in the original text, the hebrew o.t. greek n.t. to get a better understanding of Gods word. one of the things we have to do is to define the words in the original.
the problem is the word predestination and the way people use it. by definition predestination is for the believer only.pro orizo in the greek its a division of darkness and light. it means we are pre bound to the light. taken out of darkness and brought into the light. now what is light? light is the truth,those who do the truth come to the light. so god can not predestinate a man to hell because there is no light or truth in hell. there is no such thing as double predestination.God ordain men
I appreciate that mark making the brave proclamation that God does say he will preordain some to hell.The only problem is a Moral argument issue.If we are to follow God as our moral example.Does this make God the author of evil?.This does have to be answered whether in the scirpture or not.The God who tells us to lay down our life for our neighbor.....also tells us that he will damn some to eternal torment for no moral reason other than to bring himself glory.This has to be dealth with.Thank you
In this,I would ask people to read john calvin.He made statements that sin was not the motivater for his action in predistination but It was his will and ordaining that some men be damned.You cannot say God allows some to be lost when in his soveriegn determination,he ordained or willed it in his decision making.In other words he is the prime mover of the act of damnation.Know,this is in Calvin's writings.People should prayer and weigh this issue out.
There is an Election. Just trust God you will be one of them. Think about it. If there were 1,000,000 ppl; how many ppl would choose God? The Bible says ZERO Rom3:11. How many will God save? The Bible says a multitude that can't be numbered Rev7:9. Stop being afraid and trust God! God's election is merciful because without it, NOBODY WILL BE SAVED!!! Amen.
@SuperDonster A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. You might reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”.....see, don't get it
I know there are plenty out there who are going to Hell but that isn't the question!
Are there any that choose, willingly, the lake of fire? Is there anythat see it for what it truly is and choose it rather than heaven? Or is it something they do, not realizing they are doing it, to where it will be a surprise to them?
@jls201 A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. You might reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”.....see, point made, you can't answer
Even men sinful glorify God by difference and powerless nature contrary to God's will.Pilate glorified God doing His will: Christ must be crucified and raised the third day. Could Pilate make a different choice.? No! all men glorify God. The elect glorify Christ exceptionally. Being made new creations of His desire. The Elect sanctified by Christ are purity of His election in grace. And so glorify God in a different design not in the natural order of all other men.Men are always powerless.
God does not bring Himself glory. God is glory revealed. There is no measure of glory that comes from outside of God Himself. God ordains His glory in creative and saving will. God does not make a will that adds glory to His Nature( this is limited understanding Mark is revealing). God's glory cannot be marred or diminished or created it is His Nature and when revealed a statement of Himself but not a "bringing" of glory to God. God is glory and all men glorify God but only elect glorify Christ.
There is but destination for all not by difference but by ordaining will.Esau was elected, as much as Paul of Tarsus just not the same election.God does not intervene ever! He pre ordains He does not act in time. He rested after finishing all His creative will and saving will. Mark is suggesting God comes into peoples lifes in space & time or does not come into peoples lives in space & time. God does not intervene ever. He is at perfect rest of all His will.God's will is done not getting done
@TheRdmin I don't deny that those men believed that, however, the fact can't be argued that there are MANY calvinists who don't believe we have a free will too. Trust me. There is 2 sides to this.
@TheKJVberean A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. You might reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”.....see, point made, you can't answer
@TheRdmin Me, not know what calvinism is? Calvinism is a denial of free will, that is if you hold to all points of calvinism. Only thing is, if one point of calvinism falls then so does the rest of the system.
@TheKJVberean Calvinist do not believe that people do not have free will. Go and read some of the great writings on this topic. Jonathan Edwards and Martin Luther both wrote works stating that man chooses to do what he wants to do. He simply does not want God. And God, through regeneration changes a man's want to.
Hey Mark, Actively or Passively Hardening Pharoh sounds nice, until you realize that Pharoh was Actively Created Sinful-- so God never really "Passively" Hardened Pharoh, He ACTIVELY Hardened him during His Conception. When oh when will I ever find a consistent calvinists?
We are predestined and elect according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God! 1Pet 1:2 and Rom 8:29. God foreknows everything including those who will respond in faith to His Grace in Christ Jesus, both before and after the cross.
@rplende A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. You might reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”.....see, point made, you can't answer
A SUIVRE finished their missions by propaging the message of god for humankind men will not have an aliby in front of god we are not informed we do not know etc if jesus has sacrified himself to save you from the punishment of god and you are sure to go paradise why are waiting kill your self i will tell something all prophets will go to paradise but all of them will be judjed also.
A SUIVRE the sins of your father or your family your are not judjed for it WALA TAZIROU WAZIRATEN WIZRA OKHRA means every one is judjed for his own sins in the judjment day is not the christ who will pay for all what you did if it is like that why there is judjment in the judjment day your mother it comes to you and ask to give her points from your good deeds you will refuse even mothers are the most beloved one for humankind jesus and all prophets finished ltheir missions ASUIV
christians you pretend tha all your sins are taken by jesus when he was crusfied (is not true he was not) you see what god said of the jews they said we are the beloved and chosen people of god we will go all in paradise god said if you are sure kill yourselselfes why are waiting for god all mankind are same no colors no origin no rich no poor only the beleif of allah is only god and follwing his demands and what is yours deeds during your life the sins of your father A SUIVRE
Whoever made this video- Please do some research about WHO the ELECT are- They are the 144,000 as mentioned in my comments below. They are different than the rest of us. WE are the general body of Christ- Heaven is to come down to the earth, it will be the new heavens, and the new earth. Research about these chosen 144,000, and you will find that they are the ONLY people that God has pre-selected/ elected. PLEASE REALIZE that if God is the one who chooses who is and is not saved- the
@TheWayandWordofLife A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. You might reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”.....see, point made, you can't answer
OOOOPPPPS! Please read my comment below first, THEN, continue to this one...... Satan is the lord of this world, for a while longer. I'm not saved because God chose me to be, or because I was afraid of Hell. I'm saved because I knew that the GOOD things within life, nature, childhood, family, and myself were the things that bring TRUE HAPPINESS, AND JOY, as well as strength, and wisdom to deal with the crappy, and harsh things in life. I don't know why so many people reject goodness,
The doctrine of predestination is false, because it completely contradicts with the desperate need of the ONE AND ONLY SAVIOR for ALL of Humanity- Jesus Christ, and the power of our free will choice- to WANT to LOVE GOD, to FREELY CHOOSE Jesus Christ as our Lord AND SAVIOR. I AM SAVED BECAUSE; I believe with all my mind that God exists, I am mesmerized by the intense beauty, and complexity of ALL that He created, I LOVE ALL true goodness in humankind, and appreciate life's blessings, I have
Salvation is for every single person who has, and will ever live on this earth. Including ALL people who have died BEFORE JESUS Conquered sin, death, and Satan at the cross. God will give all who never heard of Christ, or God, babies, children, teens who died not saved, etc. God also says that He will Judge every person according to their HEART, God is NOT A CRUEL monster, nor is He a BLIND FOOL. HE is never unjust, nor unfair. He'll is NOT A LITERAL pit of lava, and fire, where the godl
WRONG, and very FALSE, misguided teaching. The ONLY "ELECT" people that God, and Christ speak of are the Elect 144,000 that GOD will select to rule with Christ. GOD clearly explains who these CHOSEN persons are, they are people who devoted every part of their life to God, Jesus Christ, and even willingly died for their great devotion. People like Paul, Abraham, John, Elijah, Etc. THESE ELECT have NOTHING at all to do with the rest of us! WHEN ANY Religion, or DENOMINATION of a religion, DOES
Who cares about predestination? God desires all to be saved. And if you love God then you try your best to help. Not tell people that there presdestined to hell. What is wrong with you people? Predestination is a arguement that no one can win.OnlyGODknows
Isaiah 55:8-9“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
The speaker makes the assumption that double PD is valid. What if this premise is wrong? Elect well could mean that these are the ones who by their will power choose God in his son Jesus. The quote from Romans 9 is not about individuals but is about the nation of Israel. So Romans 9 is not about individual destination. Human will exist. The work of people is to believe in Jesus. An Act of the will. John 6:28 or so. Acts 2, Acts 4. Scripture teaches Choice. Calvinism is deadly to the soul
@dragonfly101 No, the cross is the power, God draws all men by it, I believe in the sovereignty of God. But I don't believe it eliminates the free will of man to make a choice after the Holy Spirit draws. With calvinists denying free will it ruins the rest of doctrines, you will look at scripture out of its context.
@TheKJVberean Calvinists don't deny the free will of man. They believe that man has free will, but that they will never choose God unless God intervenes. Man chooses to do what he wants, but he doesn't want God.
Can't you see that Christians having arrogant, nasty arguments over non-essentials like Calvinism v. Arminianism is a powerful tool of Satan to make us look like fools before non-believers, and diminish our testimonies? What is important are the essentials--Christ and Him crucified. Quit wasting your breath arguing semantics and screaming "heresy" about non-essentials and use it to carry the Gospel to all the world. Stop arguing Paul and start obeying Christ--God has real work for you to do.
OK, here is a ? 4 ANY Paul Washer/Calvismism/Armianian teacher’
How does some1 who is NOT predestined 4 heaven & basically DO love sin & dislike God get saved so they can escape hell & go to heaven?
If this person who loves sin & dislike God DOES indeed BELIEVE in Christ & God & obviously wants & desires heaven (self preservation) how do THEY get saved from hell?
@Sogwa The question you asked does not happen. People left to themselves will always reject God. Salvation comes about through a miraculous work of God.
So If this person who loves sin & dislike God DOES indeed BELIEVE in Christ & God & obviously wants & desires heaven HOW DOES such a miraculous work of God COME ABOUT since natural man will always reject God?!?!
@Sogwa The process is explained in Ezekiel 36, John 3, and 2 Corinthians 5:17. The theological term is regeneration and the term Jesus used is being "born again". God causes the person to have new desires, hence the "new heart" mentioned in Ezekiel 36. The person who has not been born again, or drawn by the Father cannot come to Christ. They will always reject Christ. So, it is a work of God giving the sinner the desire to come to Christ.
@TheRdmin Then how does the love of God show itself for depraved beings that are the elect? And how exactly would such sentiment be 'love' on the part of an elect person?
@010101zz God shows love for them by causing them to be "born again". They are given the desire to love and follow Christ. The elect are just as depraved as the rest, not desiring to submit to Christ. The elect are caused to be born again.
@Sogwa If they believe in Christ they have been redeemed. If they truly trust Christ and treasure Him, they have been redeemed. But they did this only because God loved them first and caused them to be born again.
Well not sure if I fully understand/agree with u b/c even satan & demons BELIEVE in Christ. & ANY1
would TRY to love Christ & turn from sin to preserve their live & salvation - even if for only 2 hours. The ? is how does some1 who is NOT elect "get God" to "make them love" Christ, holiness, & Him since obviously they would NOT chose or desire it naturally?!?!
What can 1 do/beg/ask etc. 2 get God to save them (by regeneration) since the "sinners prayer" won't work?!
@Sogwa The non-elect do not desire God. They do not hear His voice because they are not His. The non-elect will never desire to be saved. They do not desire to "truly" turn to Him. So, the question you are asking cannot be answered. The "non-elect" that turn to Christ do not exist.
@Sogwa Sorry I have been away from you tube for quite a while now. The answer really is quite simple. You repent, that is turn from your sins and turn to God. And Believe, that is trust in Christ and Christ alone for salvation. God enables a person through regeneration to desire God and to have the ability to turn to Him, but you must still turn to Him.
Ergo: yes, calvinism states, God does actively direct evil, but no, says calvinism, it doesn't make Him responsible for it. Who is? Well, mankind of course. Even if mankind has no free will and is programmed to do whatever God has planned for it, the blame for sin lies entirely with mankind. Calvin's successor Beza had no reservations going so far as to proclaim the Fall itself was preordained, which is called supralapsarianism.
You know how Calvin solved this dilemma? Simple. Whenever the logical end result of his theology resulted in the dreaded notion that it made God the author of sin, Calvin snuck in a wholly unbiblical doctrine that has since been the piece of duck tape holding the entire theology together: Calvin speaks of the 'unknown and unrevealed' will of God. Of which there is not a single mention in the bible. Aside that, Calvin came up with the solution that "God wills and wills not at the same time..."
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero... Wait another clue, everyone that is pro calvin posting on utube videos, are white males, ask them, bet they are..... why can't Calvinist understand this when you point this out? They will reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”see, Blind and Deaf
The eternal problem of calvinism, and especially the doctrine of double predestination, is that it takes away all guilt and all responsibility for sin from mankind, and inadvertently bestows it upon God himself, which reeks of blasphemy to me. I have read about and debated with adherents of calvinism on this point, and none of it/them are able to come up with a logical rebuttal of this claim. Then again, neither could Calvin.
The Edomites pretty much went for that well-known concept: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. In this case, Babylon. Naturally Maleachi was grieved. As was the whole of Israel. And what better way to vent this hatred than to apply divine hatred to that group of people that has caused you said grief? And this then has since Calvin been co-opted as scriptural proof for double predestination...
Now, why would Maleachi write about the Edomites in such a negative way? Because the Edomites, who sought to break away from Israel, were instrumental in ransacking the temple in Jerusalem in 586 BCE, thereby being the most hated collaborators of the invading Babylonians. THAT is the proper context of the 'Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated' text. Naturally, Maleachi would write of the Edomites as if they were hated by God from the start: Maleachi represented the Israelite tradition.
I was with him for a little while, but it still doesn't make sense that if every inclination man has is towards sin, God would choose some over others. If some are a bit more sinful than others so God turns those ones over to their sin, where is grace? I don't think that is God's formula. Look at Paul, he persecuted and killed christians, yet God chose him to become an apostle and share the gospel. That doesn't fit with this theory - why didn't God turn him over to his sinful nature?
@oldsoulify But I'm sure you're one of the elect, right? It's remarkable that a bit of text out of Romans 9, itself referencing a bit of text in Maleachi 1, has been taken as 'gospel truth' that solidifies the ghastly dogma of individual damnation from the womb. ESAU, as refered to both by Paul and Maleachi, does not mean the individual, historic Esau, rather it means the Edomites, who are said to have sprang from the seed of Esau.
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones So what you're saying is the Edomites are reprobate, before having done good or evil... Nations such as the Edomites are made up of individuals.
@mcintyma No I am not saying that. I do not believe the bible is the 'inerrant' word of God. It is the word of men, and it shows some glitters of the eternal Light, yes, but it remains man's work. Which explains why the Edomites have been assigned the thankless role of God's most hated people in Maleachi. And lo and behold, look what happens in the Gospel of John: here we are told that a new group of people are descendants from the devil... Guess what group.
@oldsoulify A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. You might reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”.....see, point made, you can't answer
@misteRiOuZz100 Exactly! Invoking The Light is all about Luke 8:17! Soon after receiving my Light Truths, numbers appeared to me in a vision in such a beautiful script, as if written by the hand of God. I knew the invocation had a special purpose and the numbers, translated according to the Hebrew alphabet proclaim: "‘In the name of God, let it come to pass, by God’s permission, mercy and power, like a weapon, His hand sweeps out all that is concealed to be revealed’! Truly a gift from God.
@misteRiOuZz100 Very true... One may understand the true nature of darkness in this way: block the light with an object and what happens? A shadow appears. Take away that which blocks the light and the shadow disappears! I will forgive you seventy times seven, my Brother, but I have only been grateful for the pure clarity of your own good insights. Like children, we enter the Kingdom on the wings of the Spirit of Truth!
I believe Jesus annuls the hardening of hearts. His apostles had "hardened hearts" (Mark 6:52) even until after the resurrection (Luke 24:25) Then Jesus "opened their mind" (Luke 24:45) and gave the gift of the Holy Ghost (John 14:26).
John 12:30-32: "This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the ruler of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me." Who says ONLY "the elect" will be saved?
@crystalcorp it's the other way around young lady the apostles could not believe cause in the old testament the HOLY GHOST had not been given so even though they saw all the miracles they still doubted even today we have troble believing if it isn't for the spirit that bears witness and the gift of faith that it's given to us by GOD we would not be able to believe ego? no ego here there?hhhhhmmmmm most likely lol
@patriotsfan1379 That's exactly my point! All the scripture in the world will not reveal it to you... only as Jesus says "my Father in heaven" and only through the Holy Ghost. When you answered me, you answered with your ego instead of the Spirit. Hmmmmmm. If you disagree, back it up with scripture. If Jesus meant ALL Elect He would have said so. He said ALL MEN. Contemplate His words and receive the Spirit of Truth and you will know the higher meanings of scripture. God bless.
@crystalcorp hhhhmmmmmmm now we getting somewhere you are right all the scripture in the world cannot unless GOD does a regenerating work am sorry if I got you all worked up but the bible does teach if read carefully that in the use of all, world it is used collectivly not generally example; mark 1;5 but we know that not all got baptised cause the pharesis didn't want more? young lady? God bess you
@patriotsfan1379 I see your point. The phrase "all men" is often used emphatically. Still the verse I cited speaks to me. I asked "Who says only the elect will be saved?" If only the elect will be saved, why would Jesus draw "all men unto" him? Perhaps the answer is... "less iniquity in the world". I am reminded of the scripture where Jesus ignores the pleas of a woman until she says "yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table". Her effort paid off and she was saved...
@crystalcorp also in the scripture that you used we know that not all man have been drawn to Christ so we must either say he lied or that HE really meant men from all nations in many times n places what you think huh?
@patriotsfan1379 Yes. In Revelation Christ speaks of a new earth and heaven and 1000 years of His reign; perhaps he was looking far forward when light ultimately triumphs over darkness. I am reminded of one of my favorite scriptures:
1 Corinthians 4:5:
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
An interesting contrast may be found between your reference to Moses and God willing to give all kinds of signs when asked and Jesus refusing to give any sign when asked and instead refers to Jonas:
Matthew 16:4 "A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas."
Passively harden? **Your creating adjective out of a verb. In order to "harden a heart" an action is necessary. Non action is NOT an action. Do the Calvinists have some form of alternate grammar that I'm not privy to? Also why the mincing of words? Wouldn't the bible read something like God allowed pharaohs heart to stay hardened, instead of using the verbs. Also 22:30 is an action. God removing his arm is an ACTION. That is not passivity. Removing a dam is an action to letting water flow.
@SaviourOfAll thats not the same GOD is holy therefore HE hates evil and even if it wasn't hate GOD still loved esau less so that he was excluded from election all the verses you mention before are only to the elect you are taking scripture out of context I know why you don't understand do you want to know?
@patriotsfan1379 "thats not the same" you say? Are you kidding? So, God is so "holy" that He HATES His enemies, but demands that we humans LOVE ours? Wow! You have not only brought God down to your own human level, but you have brought Him down to the level of a SNAKE!
I urge you in love to get off of this Calvinistic bandwagon while you still have some sense left. This will destroy you!
God Created Evil. Isaiah 45:7. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Also, lets assume your right. Isn't it still unfair that God would cherry pick whom he would passively harden? By turning us over to our sins God is allowing some to go to hell. We're all helpless to our sin.The "pharaohs" of the world have bad luck. To me hyper Calvinism is the only proper way of looking at this logically. But i have a hard time with it to.
This video answers nothing. If God actively elects a FEW to salvation (while predestinating the rest for "eternal hell"), then the end result is still the same with Calvinism - with or without "equal ultimacy"! This does NOT make the Calvinist god more merciful.
The Good News is that God predestines ALL for good reason: To DISPLAY ALL HIS ATTRIBUTES! He USES the 'vessels of honor' to HAVE MERCY on the 'vessels of wrath' (Rom 11). Rom 11 answers Rom 9. God's WRATH lasts but a MOMENT (Ps 30:5)
@SaviourOfAll the whole chapter talks about choosing one while bypassing another you are twisting scripture I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I WILL HAVE MERCY you thinkGOD will overlook 1 attribute to display another and tats not biblical psalms30.5 is directed to believers
@patriotsfan1379 Actually, it says GOD hardens WHOM HE WILL HARDEN as well. He doesn't just "bypass another" — and you think I'M the one twisting scripture? (BTW, Ps 30:5 is about God's wrath enduring but a moment to ANYONE. His wrath is ALWAYS momentary compared to His mercy)
Rom 9 is explained in detail in Rom 10 & 11. Compare Rom 9:21 with Rom 11:16 (Hint: the LUMP). Then compare Rom 9:21-23 with Rom 11:31-32 (this is the PURPOSE of the vessels of mercy - TO HAVE MERCY ON ALL UNBELIEVERS).
@SaviourOfAll taken out af context rom 11;14 in order to make some howmy fellow jews jelous and thus"SAVE SOME OF THE" rom 1131 32 all does not mean generally but collectivly all meaning gentiles n jewas not everysingleone but some throughout the woerl otherwise the bible is redundant when it clearly teaches that some will go to hell
@patriotsfan1379 You do the very thing you accuse me of doing. Read the CONTEXT:
"If by any means I may provoke THEM (his countrymen), and might save some of THEM...
READ THE NEXT VERSE:
"For if the [temporary] casting away of THEM be the RECONCILING OF THE WORLD, what shall the receiving of THEM [his countrymen] be, but L-I-F-E FROM THE DEAD?"
Eventually ALL will be reconciled. Even those who Paul could NOT provoke!
BTW: "Hell" is a phantom imagination of the church. Let it go.
@SaviourOfAll all does not meanall jews for if that was the case than everybody is going to be sved n go to heaven but the bible does not teach that it teaches that many people are going to hell all in the context of that chapter refer to the elect not all in general rom ch; 9 paul states that he wishes he could be cursed so that his countrymen could be saved and he states that GODS promisess have not failed because not all israel belongs to the promised
@patriotsfan1379 You can't use Calvinistic logic to disprove plain scriptural facts. I cannot make it any plainer to you. Rom 11:16 makes it abundantly clear that ALL those that Paul was trying to provoke will be reconciled (after the fullness of the gentiles be come in). How can you not see it?
Yes, not ALL Jews are the SEED of promise. But the promise is that THROUGH the seed, shall ALL NATIONS be blessed. It is THROUGH the mercy OF the seed that all vessels of wrath shall receive mercy.
@SaviourOfAll so you are saying that GOD will not save all the jews HISpeople the patriarchs by whom the sacred writtings were brought forth and through whom the Christ came but HE will save ALL the gentiles ? is thats why HE endured with much patience the vesselsPREPARED FOR DESTRUCTION? now where do you see any mercy in that statement? you are a humanist 2 peter 3;7 talks about the day of judgement and the destruction of the ungodly is that the same mercy you are refering to? am waiting
@patriotsfan1379 That's not what I am saying at all. You need to read my comments. I said that not ALL Jews are part of the SEED. Only a remnant of the Jews + a remnant of the Gentiles are the SEED of Abraham (FIRST-fruits —OF— God's creatures - Jam 1:18). These remnants are the 'vessels of mercy'. All unbelieving Israel & Gentiles are 'vessels of wrath'.
BUT, it is THROUGH the SEED (vessels of mercy) that all unbelievers (vessels of wrath) are shown mercy. This is the PURPOSE of 'election'.
@patriotsfan1379 The salvation kind of mercy. Rom 5:18-19, Rom 11:31-32, 1 Cor 15:22-28, Col 1:16-20, 1 Tim 2:4-6, 1 Tim 4:10, Luke 3:6, 1 Jn 2:2, etc, etc, etc.
@SaviourOfAll 2 thessalonians1;when the LORD JESUS is revealed from heaven with HIS mighty angelsin flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who DO NOT KNOW GOD AND ON THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST I think thats perfectly clear you are twisting scripture there is a hell
@patriotsfan1379 The problem with Calvinism & Arminianism is that neither understands the PURPOSE of election.
"Election" is NEVER to the exclusion of the world. "Election" is ALWAYS for the BENEFIT of the unbelieving world. This is how God works. This is WHY Paul can say in Rom 11:32-33:
"For God hath concluded ALL in unbelief, THAT he might have MERCY upon ALL. O the DEPTH of the RICHES both of the wisdom and knowledge of God"
This is the MYSTERY that Paul revealed, yet NOBODY believes it!
If a "elected one" name can be removed from the Book of Life, as we see at (Ex 32:32-33, Ps 69:27-28, Rev. 22:18-19), unconditional and "forever no matter what" salvation, and arbitrary predestination, BOTH fall down in absolute and unquestionable way for eve, and ever, and ever, and ever. Amem!
@Brucev7 if you are talking about the fall that was before sin entered but now the bible says we are slaves to sin so as far as a slave is defined he stays a slave 24\7 because if he stops being that at any time than he is not a slave first but even before the fall GOD had predestined JESUS to be the lamb slain before the foundation of the world HE says I know the end from the begining in Isaiah so all these things were predetermined
@Brucev7 the bible never teaches that!!! man teach that you are supposing that the creature it's autonomous from his creator and or HIS plan Jesus is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world there is a plan a nd GODS plan cannot be stoped if GOD knew eve would fall than HE predestined it " I KNOW THE END FROM THE BEGINNIG DECLARES THE LORD "
@patriotsfan1379 thats right. read rom;8;20. for the creature was made subject to vanity not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope. vanity means whats devoid of truth, perverseness,depravity. isa;46;10. a good scripture. keep giving them scripture and if they belong to god then they will see the pile of dong that they really are and also see without Christ they are nothing and cant do nothing. thats why GOD has to predestinate a family,if he dont nobody would come.
@patriotsfan1379 God bless you. i veiwed your comments in this forum and i see that you are carrying your cross(preaching truth with his word)and dying to the flesh( to the lie that man has a choice in his salvation)daily and following christ so that you can be his disciple(learner) keep on keeping on. may the lord keep you and your family in the well way.
@patriotsfan1379 I disagree. We see throughout the Bible, choices of persons. God has foreknowledge, but he is not a Puppeteer, a "Manipulator." He gives the gift of free will so a Human can respond back in love. He does not force any of His creation to love Him back.
@Brucev7 proverbs30;12 there is a generation that are pure in their own eyes; and yet are not washed from their filthiness thats the generation we live in today wich you are part of you do not understand your own depravity you think you can come to GOD on your own terms and time that you do not see your sinof pride its your great fall you can never sing amazing grace and really mean it and as you look on people you think you have made the better choice the wiser choice by choosing GOD
@Brucev7 therefore you look down on those who don't you are like the pharisi who thanked GOD cause he was not like the other guy cause you give your tenth and so you don;t even ask for mercy rom 3;10;12 there is none righteous no not one; there is none who understand; there is NONE THAT SEEKETH after GOD;they have all turned aside; they have all become unprofitable;there is none that doeth good no not even one but ofcourse this does not apply to you cause you have freewill n youcan choose
Yea these are the types of questions we have to ask God directly. Maybe an answer will come now, as long as we are steadfast in prayer, praying to God, the God of the bible, and staying nourished on His food (word). Or maybe itswhat you have to wait to know in heaven with Him.
Even Arminians have Double Predestination in their theology!!! How??? Because in eternity past,when God was reviewing all possible realities and deciding upon this reality for humanity(I'm speaking in human terms.God doesn't have to "think it out".He's omniscient), He knew who would and WOULDNT be saved...AND HE CHOSE IT!He therefore,by choosing this reality, predestined a KNOWN multitude for Hell, and a KNOWN multitude for Heaven. Arminian theology doesn't escape the dilemma of predestination.
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A Question Calvinist can't clearly directly answer, children that are beaten, some raped and even murdered, God preordained this before her birth is what a true Predestined Elected Calvinist believes, but will not admit it. examples are JonBenét Ramsey, Dennis Rader and John Wayne Gacy, Jr. who molested and killed 33 teenage boys.
hemet92544 5 days ago
In Romans 9 Paul is showing both sides of double predestination. He shows us Jacob the vessel of honor prepared beforehand for glory. Then he shows us Pharoah the vessel of dishonor prepared for distruction. God is the potter. Mankind is the lump. God is making one vessel for honor and another for dishonor. According to Paul, if you get what he is teaching you will ask, "Why does God find fault? For who has resisted His will?" The obvious implication is that noone has resisted God's will.
tonytaylor2012 3 weeks ago
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@tonytaylor2012 A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. Wait another clue, everyone that is pro calvin posting on utube videos, are white males, ask them, bet they are.....get it yet? still probably not.
hemet92544 6 days ago
Proverbs 16:4
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.
God created Pharoah to make His power known so that His name would be declared in all the earth. When God hardened Pharoah's heart it became impossible for Pharoah to obey and let the people go. Pharoah didn't harden his own heart, but God said that He would harden Pharoah's heart. Romans 9 says He does that to whomever He wills. There is nothing passive about that.
tonytaylor2012 3 weeks ago
"So then He has mercy on whom He will have mercy,and He hardens whom He will harden."Romans9:18 To the Calvinist: I contend this is a statement not of exclusivism,but a statement of inclusivism. For instance, if God decided to have mercy on those in the lake of fire,we have no reason for complaint.Why. Because of said statement--"He has mercy on whom he will have mercy." Actually God hardens everyone. Why?--For God has shut up all in disobedience that he might show mercy to all."Romans11:32
741rjohnson 1 month ago
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@741rjohnson A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero... Wait another clue, everyone that is pro calvin posting on utube videos, are white males, ask them, bet they are.....
hemet92544 6 days ago
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How is it that God hardens the hearts of the reprobate "without actively intervening" in their hearts??? This video is clearly unscriptural. Double predestination means that God predetermines both election and reprobation before the creation of the world--that's true of both the supralapsarian view and the infralapsarian view. There is a decree to reprobation and that is clear in Scripture: Romans 9:11-13
cranmer1959 2 months ago
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cranmer1959 2 months ago
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@rockstarcola100
1) If you think you know you are reprobate when it is impossible to know and you don't repent of your foolish presumptions then you are reprobate.
2) If you are wise enough to turn to Jesus to be saved from your sin then you should be wise enough to realise your wisdom is a gift from God.
BeholdTheCross 2 months ago
The term "Double Predestination" is idiotically redundant. The non-elect are exactly that: not-predestinated to conform to the image of Christ and are therefore going to Hell. They are "appointed to damnation". If you don't like predestination, tough; God doesn't care what you like. His word is final. Christ died for the Church ONLY and His Church is made up of believers in His Word.
tolar9 3 months ago
@tolar9 You are in error, Christ died for the sinners not the righteous. "For all have sinned and come short to the glory of God"
deadcell1 1 month ago
@dead'ed Huh? All have sinned, even the Elect, but Christ gave His life for His Church (Eph 5:25: Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;). You enter the Church by believing in Him. Belief in Jesus is the gift of God (Phil 1:29: For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;). Suffering conforms you to His image, which only the Elect are predestined to do (Rom 8:29). You're in error.
tolar9 1 month ago
@tolar9 before the elect became saved what was they? sinners.. thats what the bible means when it says "For all have sinned and come short to the Glory o God"
deadcell1 1 month ago
@deadcell1 Did you miss the part where I agreed with that? We're all sinners; Elect and Non-elect. What's your point? What about my original comment do you disagree with? Your sin statements are irrelevant.
tolar9 1 month ago
@tolar9 I agree with you to a certain extent unless with the part that is stated in your original comment when you state "Christ died for the church only" Which siginfies that he died to save the rightous. The rightous don't need saving the ungodly do.
deadcell1 1 month ago
@deadcell1 Actually, the Church is made up of all those who believe in Jesus as Messiah; no one is righteous (Rom 3:10). Either way, all humans are sinners (Rom 3:23), but only those who don't believe pay for their own sin and go to Hell. Clearly Christ didn't die for them or they wouldn't be in Hell (it would be double-jeopardy if Christ paid the price and then they had to pay it again, right?). And Ephesians 5:25 tells us Christ gave His life for the Church--the body of believers.
tolar9 1 month ago
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@tolar9 A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. Wait another clue, everyone that is pro calvin posting on utube videos, are white males, ask them, bet they are.....get it yet? still probably not.
hemet92544 6 days ago
Sorry, but I don't believe God's Heart can be harden. That's why He sent Jesus Christ. To prove to us His loving Power. If that's the case then life is not worth living. At least for me. A lot of things have been split and divided in the word. To me everything somwhat confused but when you read about the Father it's different. There is to much duality in this. Kind of confusing.
SuperLmer 3 months ago in playlist Sermons
How can God God be passive to a choice of man.? Men have power and knowledge God does not possess?. Outside of God an autonomous power and knowledge.? God is interfering in independent power, knowledge.? ( not His own ) Fighting independent spirits out of control.? Where did flesh of man get power and knowledge.? Man has virtue and attribute to act independenly.? God is not passive but at perfect rest.There is no power but of God.God planned an ordained will.So Esau acted by his inner man ?
polopowers1 5 months ago
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@polopowers1 A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero... Wait another clue, everyone that is pro calvin posting on utube videos, are white males, ask them, bet they are.....
hemet92544 6 days ago
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polopowers1 5 months ago
Dude if God doesn't cause people to go to hell He just know who will go to hell and causes who will go to heaven, then why call it double pre-destination?
philosophizer149 5 months ago
This really doesnt make sense if one really pay attention. "IF" God created one for hell, that means he put the attributes of hell in them to creat them for it. a attribute of hell is plainly SIN. No elequant of speech can change that fact my friend. So what is it man sinned cause he wanted to or God predestined him for hell which means he puts also the attributes of hell in them. It doesnt sound like a doulbe predestination he claiming but more like double minded about the Potter.
PRAYERWARRIORKING 6 months ago
now we are predestin to be comformed to the image of his son, meaning we are predestin to be christ like. rom;8;29. now does that sound like God predestines his sheep to hell?no. but he does ordained people to hell. jude;4. the word predestination is for the believers only. by definition. preordained is God predetermine will. so is predestination but its not used in sending a man to hell. the word predestination is used only 6 times in the bible. its used when talking about a mans salvation.
MrRomans829 6 months ago
to hell. now we know that man can not make a choice to come to God. theres nothing good in him niether does he seek after God,none seek after God not one. man can not go to hell even if he wants to, God has to preordain a man to hell.read; rom;9;20-21. read 2 peter; 2;10-22. these same people are in jude;4; we have to study the word in the original text, the hebrew o.t. greek n.t. to get a better understanding of Gods word. one of the things we have to do is to define the words in the original.
MrRomans829 6 months ago
the problem is the word predestination and the way people use it. by definition predestination is for the believer only.pro orizo in the greek its a division of darkness and light. it means we are pre bound to the light. taken out of darkness and brought into the light. now what is light? light is the truth,those who do the truth come to the light. so god can not predestinate a man to hell because there is no light or truth in hell. there is no such thing as double predestination.God ordain men
MrRomans829 6 months ago
This is very good.
Amajor34 6 months ago
I appreciate that mark making the brave proclamation that God does say he will preordain some to hell.The only problem is a Moral argument issue.If we are to follow God as our moral example.Does this make God the author of evil?.This does have to be answered whether in the scirpture or not.The God who tells us to lay down our life for our neighbor.....also tells us that he will damn some to eternal torment for no moral reason other than to bring himself glory.This has to be dealth with.Thank you
777bal 6 months ago
@777bal READ PRO;16;4. ISA;45;7. REV;4;11. JUDE;1;13. EC; 7;13. ACTS;4;28.
MrRomans829 6 months ago
In this,I would ask people to read john calvin.He made statements that sin was not the motivater for his action in predistination but It was his will and ordaining that some men be damned.You cannot say God allows some to be lost when in his soveriegn determination,he ordained or willed it in his decision making.In other words he is the prime mover of the act of damnation.Know,this is in Calvin's writings.People should prayer and weigh this issue out.
777bal 6 months ago
I have this series on "The Sovereignty of God" also and would highly recommend it.
bobcaldwellrocks 6 months ago
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Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 6 months ago
those pants are ridiculous just like this video!
Crazyman1212 6 months ago
Excellent! Study to show thyself approved. For God to give someone over to their sin is a frightening thought.
BornTwyce4 6 months ago
I can explain this easier. if your interested please IM me.
ArthurCorp1 6 months ago
Nope, still don't get it. Any other preachers I can listen to, who might make sense of this?
Mojosbigstick 7 months ago
can't hear this.. why so low?
utubin67 7 months ago
There is an Election. Just trust God you will be one of them. Think about it. If there were 1,000,000 ppl; how many ppl would choose God? The Bible says ZERO Rom3:11. How many will God save? The Bible says a multitude that can't be numbered Rev7:9. Stop being afraid and trust God! God's election is merciful because without it, NOBODY WILL BE SAVED!!! Amen.
SuperDonster 7 months ago
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@SuperDonster A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. You might reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”.....see, don't get it
hemet92544 6 days ago
/watch?v=SFGiJIjePtQ
rubantin 7 months ago
@LaneCh great example in the caption!
npotts89 7 months ago
the simple answer is NO..
We choose our destination. However, God knows what we will chose..
onlytruegod 7 months ago
@onlytruegod "We choose our destination. However, God knows what we will chose.."
I was just wondering if anyone has ever willingly chose the lake of fire?
jls201 7 months ago
@jls201 - Yes, there are plenty who chose the lake of fire. It is crazy but there are tons out there.
onlytruegod 7 months ago
@onlytruegod
I know there are plenty out there who are going to Hell but that isn't the question!
Are there any that choose, willingly, the lake of fire? Is there anythat see it for what it truly is and choose it rather than heaven? Or is it something they do, not realizing they are doing it, to where it will be a surprise to them?
jls201 7 months ago
@jls201 - Yes, I personally know a few. they know the still desires evil than good.
onlytruegod 7 months ago
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@jls201 A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. You might reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”.....see, point made, you can't answer
hemet92544 6 days ago
I know it is a silly question but bear with me!
Why do people reject Christ?
jls201 7 months ago
Even men sinful glorify God by difference and powerless nature contrary to God's will.Pilate glorified God doing His will: Christ must be crucified and raised the third day. Could Pilate make a different choice.? No! all men glorify God. The elect glorify Christ exceptionally. Being made new creations of His desire. The Elect sanctified by Christ are purity of His election in grace. And so glorify God in a different design not in the natural order of all other men.Men are always powerless.
polopowers1 7 months ago
God does not bring Himself glory. God is glory revealed. There is no measure of glory that comes from outside of God Himself. God ordains His glory in creative and saving will. God does not make a will that adds glory to His Nature( this is limited understanding Mark is revealing). God's glory cannot be marred or diminished or created it is His Nature and when revealed a statement of Himself but not a "bringing" of glory to God. God is glory and all men glorify God but only elect glorify Christ.
polopowers1 7 months ago
There is but destination for all not by difference but by ordaining will.Esau was elected, as much as Paul of Tarsus just not the same election.God does not intervene ever! He pre ordains He does not act in time. He rested after finishing all His creative will and saving will. Mark is suggesting God comes into peoples lifes in space & time or does not come into peoples lives in space & time. God does not intervene ever. He is at perfect rest of all His will.God's will is done not getting done
polopowers1 7 months ago
@TheRdmin I don't deny that those men believed that, however, the fact can't be argued that there are MANY calvinists who don't believe we have a free will too. Trust me. There is 2 sides to this.
TheKJVberean 7 months ago
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@TheKJVberean A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. You might reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”.....see, point made, you can't answer
hemet92544 6 days ago
@TheRdmin Me, not know what calvinism is? Calvinism is a denial of free will, that is if you hold to all points of calvinism. Only thing is, if one point of calvinism falls then so does the rest of the system.
TheKJVberean 7 months ago
@TheKJVberean Calvinist do not believe that people do not have free will. Go and read some of the great writings on this topic. Jonathan Edwards and Martin Luther both wrote works stating that man chooses to do what he wants to do. He simply does not want God. And God, through regeneration changes a man's want to.
TheRdmin 7 months ago
@TheRdmin Then you're not a "calvinist." Calvinism is a denial of free will.
TheKJVberean 7 months ago
@TheKJVberean Well that all depends on how you define free will.
Risen1s 7 months ago
@TheKJVberean Or does it mean that you don't know what Calvinism is?
TheRdmin 7 months ago
Hey Mark, Actively or Passively Hardening Pharoh sounds nice, until you realize that Pharoh was Actively Created Sinful-- so God never really "Passively" Hardened Pharoh, He ACTIVELY Hardened him during His Conception. When oh when will I ever find a consistent calvinists?
apollos6640 7 months ago
We are predestined and elect according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God! 1Pet 1:2 and Rom 8:29. God foreknows everything including those who will respond in faith to His Grace in Christ Jesus, both before and after the cross.
rplende 7 months ago
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@rplende A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. You might reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”.....see, point made, you can't answer
hemet92544 6 days ago
I like waffles. Like if you also like waffles :-)
zHAGANz 7 months ago
A SUIVRE finished their missions by propaging the message of god for humankind men will not have an aliby in front of god we are not informed we do not know etc if jesus has sacrified himself to save you from the punishment of god and you are sure to go paradise why are waiting kill your self i will tell something all prophets will go to paradise but all of them will be judjed also.
4219551 8 months ago
A SUIVRE the sins of your father or your family your are not judjed for it WALA TAZIROU WAZIRATEN WIZRA OKHRA means every one is judjed for his own sins in the judjment day is not the christ who will pay for all what you did if it is like that why there is judjment in the judjment day your mother it comes to you and ask to give her points from your good deeds you will refuse even mothers are the most beloved one for humankind jesus and all prophets finished ltheir missions ASUIV
4219551 8 months ago
christians you pretend tha all your sins are taken by jesus when he was crusfied (is not true he was not) you see what god said of the jews they said we are the beloved and chosen people of god we will go all in paradise god said if you are sure kill yourselselfes why are waiting for god all mankind are same no colors no origin no rich no poor only the beleif of allah is only god and follwing his demands and what is yours deeds during your life the sins of your father A SUIVRE
4219551 8 months ago
Whoever made this video- Please do some research about WHO the ELECT are- They are the 144,000 as mentioned in my comments below. They are different than the rest of us. WE are the general body of Christ- Heaven is to come down to the earth, it will be the new heavens, and the new earth. Research about these chosen 144,000, and you will find that they are the ONLY people that God has pre-selected/ elected. PLEASE REALIZE that if God is the one who chooses who is and is not saved- the
TheWayandWordofLife 8 months ago
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@TheWayandWordofLife A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. You might reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”.....see, point made, you can't answer
hemet92544 6 days ago
OOOOPPPPS! Please read my comment below first, THEN, continue to this one...... Satan is the lord of this world, for a while longer. I'm not saved because God chose me to be, or because I was afraid of Hell. I'm saved because I knew that the GOOD things within life, nature, childhood, family, and myself were the things that bring TRUE HAPPINESS, AND JOY, as well as strength, and wisdom to deal with the crappy, and harsh things in life. I don't know why so many people reject goodness,
TheWayandWordofLife 8 months ago
The doctrine of predestination is false, because it completely contradicts with the desperate need of the ONE AND ONLY SAVIOR for ALL of Humanity- Jesus Christ, and the power of our free will choice- to WANT to LOVE GOD, to FREELY CHOOSE Jesus Christ as our Lord AND SAVIOR. I AM SAVED BECAUSE; I believe with all my mind that God exists, I am mesmerized by the intense beauty, and complexity of ALL that He created, I LOVE ALL true goodness in humankind, and appreciate life's blessings, I have
TheWayandWordofLife 8 months ago
Salvation is for every single person who has, and will ever live on this earth. Including ALL people who have died BEFORE JESUS Conquered sin, death, and Satan at the cross. God will give all who never heard of Christ, or God, babies, children, teens who died not saved, etc. God also says that He will Judge every person according to their HEART, God is NOT A CRUEL monster, nor is He a BLIND FOOL. HE is never unjust, nor unfair. He'll is NOT A LITERAL pit of lava, and fire, where the godl
TheWayandWordofLife 8 months ago
WRONG, and very FALSE, misguided teaching. The ONLY "ELECT" people that God, and Christ speak of are the Elect 144,000 that GOD will select to rule with Christ. GOD clearly explains who these CHOSEN persons are, they are people who devoted every part of their life to God, Jesus Christ, and even willingly died for their great devotion. People like Paul, Abraham, John, Elijah, Etc. THESE ELECT have NOTHING at all to do with the rest of us! WHEN ANY Religion, or DENOMINATION of a religion, DOES
TheWayandWordofLife 8 months ago
@TheWayandWordofLife Jehovah's Witness are we?
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@TheWayandWordofLife amazing, all things you say and you dont use any scriptures to back up what youre saying. are we Jehovahs Witness?
MrRomans829 6 months ago
Who cares about predestination? God desires all to be saved. And if you love God then you try your best to help. Not tell people that there presdestined to hell. What is wrong with you people? Predestination is a arguement that no one can win.OnlyGODknows
Isaiah 55:8-9“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
ICarnagezI 8 months ago
This video is teaching a false gospel and is very misleading. Dangerous
MRGV7373 8 months ago
The speaker makes the assumption that double PD is valid. What if this premise is wrong? Elect well could mean that these are the ones who by their will power choose God in his son Jesus. The quote from Romans 9 is not about individuals but is about the nation of Israel. So Romans 9 is not about individual destination. Human will exist. The work of people is to believe in Jesus. An Act of the will. John 6:28 or so. Acts 2, Acts 4. Scripture teaches Choice. Calvinism is deadly to the soul
MRGV7373 8 months ago
@dragonfly101 No, the cross is the power, God draws all men by it, I believe in the sovereignty of God. But I don't believe it eliminates the free will of man to make a choice after the Holy Spirit draws. With calvinists denying free will it ruins the rest of doctrines, you will look at scripture out of its context.
TheKJVberean 8 months ago
@TheKJVberean Calvinists don't deny the free will of man. They believe that man has free will, but that they will never choose God unless God intervenes. Man chooses to do what he wants, but he doesn't want God.
TheRdmin 7 months ago
Can't you see that Christians having arrogant, nasty arguments over non-essentials like Calvinism v. Arminianism is a powerful tool of Satan to make us look like fools before non-believers, and diminish our testimonies? What is important are the essentials--Christ and Him crucified. Quit wasting your breath arguing semantics and screaming "heresy" about non-essentials and use it to carry the Gospel to all the world. Stop arguing Paul and start obeying Christ--God has real work for you to do.
lolamom2 8 months ago
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If you are truly born again you are Gods elect. If you do not believe in God and are not born again, you are not Gods elect! Simple!
jojomarie66 8 months ago
this is a brainwashing video
treesapa 8 months ago
OK, here is a ? 4 ANY Paul Washer/Calvismism/Armianian teacher’
How does some1 who is NOT predestined 4 heaven & basically DO love sin & dislike God get saved so they can escape hell & go to heaven?
If this person who loves sin & dislike God DOES indeed BELIEVE in Christ & God & obviously wants & desires heaven (self preservation) how do THEY get saved from hell?
Awaiting an answer!
Sogwa 8 months ago
@Sogwa The question you asked does not happen. People left to themselves will always reject God. Salvation comes about through a miraculous work of God.
TheRdmin 8 months ago
@TheRdmin
So If this person who loves sin & dislike God DOES indeed BELIEVE in Christ & God & obviously wants & desires heaven HOW DOES such a miraculous work of God COME ABOUT since natural man will always reject God?!?!
CAN U EXPLAIN the process or HOW??
Sogwa 8 months ago
@Sogwa The process is explained in Ezekiel 36, John 3, and 2 Corinthians 5:17. The theological term is regeneration and the term Jesus used is being "born again". God causes the person to have new desires, hence the "new heart" mentioned in Ezekiel 36. The person who has not been born again, or drawn by the Father cannot come to Christ. They will always reject Christ. So, it is a work of God giving the sinner the desire to come to Christ.
TheRdmin 8 months ago
@TheRdmin Then how does the love of God show itself for depraved beings that are the elect? And how exactly would such sentiment be 'love' on the part of an elect person?
010101zz 7 months ago
@010101zz God shows love for them by causing them to be "born again". They are given the desire to love and follow Christ. The elect are just as depraved as the rest, not desiring to submit to Christ. The elect are caused to be born again.
TheRdmin 7 months ago
@Sogwa If they believe in Christ they have been redeemed. If they truly trust Christ and treasure Him, they have been redeemed. But they did this only because God loved them first and caused them to be born again.
TheRdmin 7 months ago
@TheRdmin
Well not sure if I fully understand/agree with u b/c even satan & demons BELIEVE in Christ. & ANY1
would TRY to love Christ & turn from sin to preserve their live & salvation - even if for only 2 hours. The ? is how does some1 who is NOT elect "get God" to "make them love" Christ, holiness, & Him since obviously they would NOT chose or desire it naturally?!?!
What can 1 do/beg/ask etc. 2 get God to save them (by regeneration) since the "sinners prayer" won't work?!
Sogwa 7 months ago
@Sogwa The non-elect do not desire God. They do not hear His voice because they are not His. The non-elect will never desire to be saved. They do not desire to "truly" turn to Him. So, the question you are asking cannot be answered. The "non-elect" that turn to Christ do not exist.
TheRdmin 7 months ago
@Sogwa Sorry I have been away from you tube for quite a while now. The answer really is quite simple. You repent, that is turn from your sins and turn to God. And Believe, that is trust in Christ and Christ alone for salvation. God enables a person through regeneration to desire God and to have the ability to turn to Him, but you must still turn to Him.
TheRdmin 4 months ago
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God actively predestines men and women to hell.
oldsoulify 9 months ago
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TheKJVberean 9 months ago
@TheKJVberean How is that?
dragonify101 8 months ago
@TheKJVberean Arminianism is a heresy. It teaches that we do something that gives the cross its power. That is complete heresy.
dragonify101 8 months ago
Ergo: yes, calvinism states, God does actively direct evil, but no, says calvinism, it doesn't make Him responsible for it. Who is? Well, mankind of course. Even if mankind has no free will and is programmed to do whatever God has planned for it, the blame for sin lies entirely with mankind. Calvin's successor Beza had no reservations going so far as to proclaim the Fall itself was preordained, which is called supralapsarianism.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
You know how Calvin solved this dilemma? Simple. Whenever the logical end result of his theology resulted in the dreaded notion that it made God the author of sin, Calvin snuck in a wholly unbiblical doctrine that has since been the piece of duck tape holding the entire theology together: Calvin speaks of the 'unknown and unrevealed' will of God. Of which there is not a single mention in the bible. Aside that, Calvin came up with the solution that "God wills and wills not at the same time..."
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
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@TennesseeOwnsMyBones A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero... Wait another clue, everyone that is pro calvin posting on utube videos, are white males, ask them, bet they are..... why can't Calvinist understand this when you point this out? They will reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”see, Blind and Deaf
hemet92544 6 days ago
The eternal problem of calvinism, and especially the doctrine of double predestination, is that it takes away all guilt and all responsibility for sin from mankind, and inadvertently bestows it upon God himself, which reeks of blasphemy to me. I have read about and debated with adherents of calvinism on this point, and none of it/them are able to come up with a logical rebuttal of this claim. Then again, neither could Calvin.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
The Edomites pretty much went for that well-known concept: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. In this case, Babylon. Naturally Maleachi was grieved. As was the whole of Israel. And what better way to vent this hatred than to apply divine hatred to that group of people that has caused you said grief? And this then has since Calvin been co-opted as scriptural proof for double predestination...
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
Now, why would Maleachi write about the Edomites in such a negative way? Because the Edomites, who sought to break away from Israel, were instrumental in ransacking the temple in Jerusalem in 586 BCE, thereby being the most hated collaborators of the invading Babylonians. THAT is the proper context of the 'Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated' text. Naturally, Maleachi would write of the Edomites as if they were hated by God from the start: Maleachi represented the Israelite tradition.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
I was with him for a little while, but it still doesn't make sense that if every inclination man has is towards sin, God would choose some over others. If some are a bit more sinful than others so God turns those ones over to their sin, where is grace? I don't think that is God's formula. Look at Paul, he persecuted and killed christians, yet God chose him to become an apostle and share the gospel. That doesn't fit with this theory - why didn't God turn him over to his sinful nature?
vicjube 9 months ago
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law, love under will.
ForestXII 9 months ago
Yes, God actively predestines men and women to hell.
oldsoulify 9 months ago
@oldsoulify But I'm sure you're one of the elect, right? It's remarkable that a bit of text out of Romans 9, itself referencing a bit of text in Maleachi 1, has been taken as 'gospel truth' that solidifies the ghastly dogma of individual damnation from the womb. ESAU, as refered to both by Paul and Maleachi, does not mean the individual, historic Esau, rather it means the Edomites, who are said to have sprang from the seed of Esau.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones So what you're saying is the Edomites are reprobate, before having done good or evil... Nations such as the Edomites are made up of individuals.
mcintyma 9 months ago
@mcintyma No I am not saying that. I do not believe the bible is the 'inerrant' word of God. It is the word of men, and it shows some glitters of the eternal Light, yes, but it remains man's work. Which explains why the Edomites have been assigned the thankless role of God's most hated people in Maleachi. And lo and behold, look what happens in the Gospel of John: here we are told that a new group of people are descendants from the devil... Guess what group.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
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@oldsoulify A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. You might reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”.....see, point made, you can't answer
hemet92544 6 days ago
@misteRiOuZz100 You are a blessing!! Thank you, dear Brother.
crystalcorp 9 months ago
@misteRiOuZz100 Exactly! Invoking The Light is all about Luke 8:17! Soon after receiving my Light Truths, numbers appeared to me in a vision in such a beautiful script, as if written by the hand of God. I knew the invocation had a special purpose and the numbers, translated according to the Hebrew alphabet proclaim: "‘In the name of God, let it come to pass, by God’s permission, mercy and power, like a weapon, His hand sweeps out all that is concealed to be revealed’! Truly a gift from God.
crystalcorp 9 months ago
@misteRiOuZz100 Very true... One may understand the true nature of darkness in this way: block the light with an object and what happens? A shadow appears. Take away that which blocks the light and the shadow disappears! I will forgive you seventy times seven, my Brother, but I have only been grateful for the pure clarity of your own good insights. Like children, we enter the Kingdom on the wings of the Spirit of Truth!
crystalcorp 9 months ago
@misteRiOuZz100 Amen! Thank you dear Brother :)
crystalcorp 9 months ago
I believe Jesus annuls the hardening of hearts. His apostles had "hardened hearts" (Mark 6:52) even until after the resurrection (Luke 24:25) Then Jesus "opened their mind" (Luke 24:45) and gave the gift of the Holy Ghost (John 14:26).
John 12:30-32: "This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the ruler of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me." Who says ONLY "the elect" will be saved?
crystalcorp 9 months ago
@crystalcorp the all is not general but collective only the elect will be drawn stop taking verses out of context
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 Your interpretation ONLY. Stop interpreting the bible for your own ego purposes.
crystalcorp 9 months ago
@crystalcorp it's the other way around young lady the apostles could not believe cause in the old testament the HOLY GHOST had not been given so even though they saw all the miracles they still doubted even today we have troble believing if it isn't for the spirit that bears witness and the gift of faith that it's given to us by GOD we would not be able to believe ego? no ego here there?hhhhhmmmmm most likely lol
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 That's exactly my point! All the scripture in the world will not reveal it to you... only as Jesus says "my Father in heaven" and only through the Holy Ghost. When you answered me, you answered with your ego instead of the Spirit. Hmmmmmm. If you disagree, back it up with scripture. If Jesus meant ALL Elect He would have said so. He said ALL MEN. Contemplate His words and receive the Spirit of Truth and you will know the higher meanings of scripture. God bless.
crystalcorp 9 months ago
@crystalcorp hhhhmmmmmmm now we getting somewhere you are right all the scripture in the world cannot unless GOD does a regenerating work am sorry if I got you all worked up but the bible does teach if read carefully that in the use of all, world it is used collectivly not generally example; mark 1;5 but we know that not all got baptised cause the pharesis didn't want more? young lady? God bess you
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 I see your point. The phrase "all men" is often used emphatically. Still the verse I cited speaks to me. I asked "Who says only the elect will be saved?" If only the elect will be saved, why would Jesus draw "all men unto" him? Perhaps the answer is... "less iniquity in the world". I am reminded of the scripture where Jesus ignores the pleas of a woman until she says "yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table". Her effort paid off and she was saved...
crystalcorp 9 months ago
@crystalcorp definition is important look up all men in the greek and you will get your answer.
MrRomans829 6 months ago
@crystalcorp also in the scripture that you used we know that not all man have been drawn to Christ so we must either say he lied or that HE really meant men from all nations in many times n places what you think huh?
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 Yes. In Revelation Christ speaks of a new earth and heaven and 1000 years of His reign; perhaps he was looking far forward when light ultimately triumphs over darkness. I am reminded of one of my favorite scriptures:
1 Corinthians 4:5:
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
Praise God for that day!
crystalcorp 9 months ago
An interesting contrast may be found between your reference to Moses and God willing to give all kinds of signs when asked and Jesus refusing to give any sign when asked and instead refers to Jonas:
Matthew 16:4 "A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas."
crystalcorp 9 months ago
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You say God is not the "author of sin" yet Isaiah 45:7 clearly testifies:
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things".
crystalcorp 9 months ago
Passively harden? **Your creating adjective out of a verb. In order to "harden a heart" an action is necessary. Non action is NOT an action. Do the Calvinists have some form of alternate grammar that I'm not privy to? Also why the mincing of words? Wouldn't the bible read something like God allowed pharaohs heart to stay hardened, instead of using the verbs. Also 22:30 is an action. God removing his arm is an ACTION. That is not passivity. Removing a dam is an action to letting water flow.
ArmedMannequins 9 months ago
oh is that the same election were GOD says Jacob I loved but ESAU I hated?
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 God hates nobody. Rom 9:13 is a hyperbole. Paul means that God chose Jacob OVER Esau. It has nothing to do with carnal hatred...
Lk 14:26
"If any man come to me, and H-A-T-E not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters...he CANNOT be my disciple."
Let me ask you this: Do YOU HATE your own father, mother, wife, children, brothers and sisters? I hope not!
This means to place God FIRST O-V-E-R your family. Stop listening to Calvinists. They LIE.
SaviourOfAll 9 months ago
@SaviourOfAll GOD HATES THE PROUD all unbelievers are pridefull they do not think they need GOD you are wrong again
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 How many more of my bullets are you going to try and dodge?
Answer my question...
Do YOU HATE your own father, mother, wife, children, brothers and sisters?
SaviourOfAll 9 months ago
@SaviourOfAll thats not the same GOD is holy therefore HE hates evil and even if it wasn't hate GOD still loved esau less so that he was excluded from election all the verses you mention before are only to the elect you are taking scripture out of context I know why you don't understand do you want to know?
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 "thats not the same" you say? Are you kidding? So, God is so "holy" that He HATES His enemies, but demands that we humans LOVE ours? Wow! You have not only brought God down to your own human level, but you have brought Him down to the level of a SNAKE!
I urge you in love to get off of this Calvinistic bandwagon while you still have some sense left. This will destroy you!
SaviourOfAll 9 months ago
God Created Evil. Isaiah 45:7. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Also, lets assume your right. Isn't it still unfair that God would cherry pick whom he would passively harden? By turning us over to our sins God is allowing some to go to hell. We're all helpless to our sin.The "pharaohs" of the world have bad luck. To me hyper Calvinism is the only proper way of looking at this logically. But i have a hard time with it to.
ArmedMannequins 9 months ago
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ArmedMannequins 9 months ago
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ArmedMannequins 9 months ago
This video answers nothing. If God actively elects a FEW to salvation (while predestinating the rest for "eternal hell"), then the end result is still the same with Calvinism - with or without "equal ultimacy"! This does NOT make the Calvinist god more merciful.
The Good News is that God predestines ALL for good reason: To DISPLAY ALL HIS ATTRIBUTES! He USES the 'vessels of honor' to HAVE MERCY on the 'vessels of wrath' (Rom 11). Rom 11 answers Rom 9. God's WRATH lasts but a MOMENT (Ps 30:5)
SaviourOfAll 9 months ago
@SaviourOfAll the whole chapter talks about choosing one while bypassing another you are twisting scripture I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I WILL HAVE MERCY you thinkGOD will overlook 1 attribute to display another and tats not biblical psalms30.5 is directed to believers
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 Actually, it says GOD hardens WHOM HE WILL HARDEN as well. He doesn't just "bypass another" — and you think I'M the one twisting scripture? (BTW, Ps 30:5 is about God's wrath enduring but a moment to ANYONE. His wrath is ALWAYS momentary compared to His mercy)
Rom 9 is explained in detail in Rom 10 & 11. Compare Rom 9:21 with Rom 11:16 (Hint: the LUMP). Then compare Rom 9:21-23 with Rom 11:31-32 (this is the PURPOSE of the vessels of mercy - TO HAVE MERCY ON ALL UNBELIEVERS).
SaviourOfAll 9 months ago
@SaviourOfAll taken out af context rom 11;14 in order to make some howmy fellow jews jelous and thus"SAVE SOME OF THE" rom 1131 32 all does not mean generally but collectivly all meaning gentiles n jewas not everysingleone but some throughout the woerl otherwise the bible is redundant when it clearly teaches that some will go to hell
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 You do the very thing you accuse me of doing. Read the CONTEXT:
"If by any means I may provoke THEM (his countrymen), and might save some of THEM...
READ THE NEXT VERSE:
"For if the [temporary] casting away of THEM be the RECONCILING OF THE WORLD, what shall the receiving of THEM [his countrymen] be, but L-I-F-E FROM THE DEAD?"
Eventually ALL will be reconciled. Even those who Paul could NOT provoke!
BTW: "Hell" is a phantom imagination of the church. Let it go.
SaviourOfAll 9 months ago
@SaviourOfAll all does not meanall jews for if that was the case than everybody is going to be sved n go to heaven but the bible does not teach that it teaches that many people are going to hell all in the context of that chapter refer to the elect not all in general rom ch; 9 paul states that he wishes he could be cursed so that his countrymen could be saved and he states that GODS promisess have not failed because not all israel belongs to the promised
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 You can't use Calvinistic logic to disprove plain scriptural facts. I cannot make it any plainer to you. Rom 11:16 makes it abundantly clear that ALL those that Paul was trying to provoke will be reconciled (after the fullness of the gentiles be come in). How can you not see it?
Yes, not ALL Jews are the SEED of promise. But the promise is that THROUGH the seed, shall ALL NATIONS be blessed. It is THROUGH the mercy OF the seed that all vessels of wrath shall receive mercy.
SaviourOfAll 9 months ago
@SaviourOfAll so you are saying that GOD will not save all the jews HISpeople the patriarchs by whom the sacred writtings were brought forth and through whom the Christ came but HE will save ALL the gentiles ? is thats why HE endured with much patience the vesselsPREPARED FOR DESTRUCTION? now where do you see any mercy in that statement? you are a humanist 2 peter 3;7 talks about the day of judgement and the destruction of the ungodly is that the same mercy you are refering to? am waiting
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 That's not what I am saying at all. You need to read my comments. I said that not ALL Jews are part of the SEED. Only a remnant of the Jews + a remnant of the Gentiles are the SEED of Abraham (FIRST-fruits —OF— God's creatures - Jam 1:18). These remnants are the 'vessels of mercy'. All unbelieving Israel & Gentiles are 'vessels of wrath'.
BUT, it is THROUGH the SEED (vessels of mercy) that all unbelievers (vessels of wrath) are shown mercy. This is the PURPOSE of 'election'.
SaviourOfAll 9 months ago
@SaviourOfAll and just what kind of mercy do you think the bible is talking about? i can't wait 4 this one
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 The salvation kind of mercy. Rom 5:18-19, Rom 11:31-32, 1 Cor 15:22-28, Col 1:16-20, 1 Tim 2:4-6, 1 Tim 4:10, Luke 3:6, 1 Jn 2:2, etc, etc, etc.
SaviourOfAll 9 months ago
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@SaviourOfAll 2 thessalonians1;when the LORD JESUS is revealed from heaven with HIS mighty angelsin flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who DO NOT KNOW GOD AND ON THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST I think thats perfectly clear you are twisting scripture there is a hell
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 The problem with Calvinism & Arminianism is that neither understands the PURPOSE of election.
"Election" is NEVER to the exclusion of the world. "Election" is ALWAYS for the BENEFIT of the unbelieving world. This is how God works. This is WHY Paul can say in Rom 11:32-33:
"For God hath concluded ALL in unbelief, THAT he might have MERCY upon ALL. O the DEPTH of the RICHES both of the wisdom and knowledge of God"
This is the MYSTERY that Paul revealed, yet NOBODY believes it!
SaviourOfAll 9 months ago
If a "elected one" name can be removed from the Book of Life, as we see at (Ex 32:32-33, Ps 69:27-28, Rev. 22:18-19), unconditional and "forever no matter what" salvation, and arbitrary predestination, BOTH fall down in absolute and unquestionable way for eve, and ever, and ever, and ever. Amem!
marcelobetel 10 months ago
The gift of Free Will from God, in His grace, is not predestination.
Brucev7 10 months ago
@Brucev7 the bible never teaches freewill
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 Yes it does. Gen 3
Brucev7 9 months ago
@Brucev7 if you are talking about the fall that was before sin entered but now the bible says we are slaves to sin so as far as a slave is defined he stays a slave 24\7 because if he stops being that at any time than he is not a slave first but even before the fall GOD had predestined JESUS to be the lamb slain before the foundation of the world HE says I know the end from the begining in Isaiah so all these things were predetermined
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 Eve was free to make her decision. So was Adam.
Brucev7 9 months ago
@Brucev7 the bible never teaches that!!! man teach that you are supposing that the creature it's autonomous from his creator and or HIS plan Jesus is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world there is a plan a nd GODS plan cannot be stoped if GOD knew eve would fall than HE predestined it " I KNOW THE END FROM THE BEGINNIG DECLARES THE LORD "
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 thats right. read rom;8;20. for the creature was made subject to vanity not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope. vanity means whats devoid of truth, perverseness,depravity. isa;46;10. a good scripture. keep giving them scripture and if they belong to god then they will see the pile of dong that they really are and also see without Christ they are nothing and cant do nothing. thats why GOD has to predestinate a family,if he dont nobody would come.
MrRomans829 6 months ago
@MrRomans829 saw your comments on top i liked them GOD bless you n keep you may HE commfort you in all your times of need
patriotsfan1379 6 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 God bless you. i veiwed your comments in this forum and i see that you are carrying your cross(preaching truth with his word)and dying to the flesh( to the lie that man has a choice in his salvation)daily and following christ so that you can be his disciple(learner) keep on keeping on. may the lord keep you and your family in the well way.
MrRomans829 6 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 I disagree. We see throughout the Bible, choices of persons. God has foreknowledge, but he is not a Puppeteer, a "Manipulator." He gives the gift of free will so a Human can respond back in love. He does not force any of His creation to love Him back.
Brucev7 9 months ago
@Brucev7 proverbs30;12 there is a generation that are pure in their own eyes; and yet are not washed from their filthiness thats the generation we live in today wich you are part of you do not understand your own depravity you think you can come to GOD on your own terms and time that you do not see your sinof pride its your great fall you can never sing amazing grace and really mean it and as you look on people you think you have made the better choice the wiser choice by choosing GOD
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 That is a diff. subject.
Brucev7 9 months ago
@Brucev7 therefore you look down on those who don't you are like the pharisi who thanked GOD cause he was not like the other guy cause you give your tenth and so you don;t even ask for mercy rom 3;10;12 there is none righteous no not one; there is none who understand; there is NONE THAT SEEKETH after GOD;they have all turned aside; they have all become unprofitable;there is none that doeth good no not even one but ofcourse this does not apply to you cause you have freewill n youcan choose
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 Read prior reply.
Brucev7 9 months ago
@Brucev7 read what?
patriotsfan1379 9 months ago
@patriotsfan1379 never mind.
Brucev7 9 months ago
Yea these are the types of questions we have to ask God directly. Maybe an answer will come now, as long as we are steadfast in prayer, praying to God, the God of the bible, and staying nourished on His food (word). Or maybe itswhat you have to wait to know in heaven with Him.
JeshuaLivingWord 10 months ago
Even Arminians have Double Predestination in their theology!!! How??? Because in eternity past,when God was reviewing all possible realities and deciding upon this reality for humanity(I'm speaking in human terms.God doesn't have to "think it out".He's omniscient), He knew who would and WOULDNT be saved...AND HE CHOSE IT!He therefore,by choosing this reality, predestined a KNOWN multitude for Hell, and a KNOWN multitude for Heaven. Arminian theology doesn't escape the dilemma of predestination.
josh96748 11 months ago
Please read the two articles on calvinism/osas herewww.ipertisalithias.gr/page5.htmland pass it on. May God keep you in His truth.
outofthebox7 11 months ago