Korea always steals other countries' culture, ideas, ....everything! They claimed everything about japan is all from korea. but not only Japanese things. Also Christianity, Jesus....these are also from Korea, they claimed.
Koreans shameless plagiarism has no limit. Please find out the truth from following video.
when using sharp long things, speed (fencing) is always a huge advantage over raw power (kendo). I mean the loser is going to get hit anyway, you don't get any more points for using both hands on a big ass sword.
@zxz1357 um, kendo isn't raw power, there is speed as well, and the katana is a fairly small sword compared to others like the claymore, broadsword, etc. but other than that, i'm trying to figure out y they wouldn't put the katana against a sabre... seems like it would make more sense
Not certain where your getting those dates from? I do know that Kendo is about 100 yrs old.
While western fencing, has come out of thousands of yrs of technical and innovative design, from continually evolving warfare and civil defence. An art developed out of logic and mathematics, into the art we have today.
As opposed to an ossified folk art, based upon the subjective teachings of individuals, in a society that stagnated for centuries!
В кендо привычные оклонятся от ударов и блокировать их так как нехочется по башке деревяшкой получить, а в класическом фехтовании им пофиг, вот они и тычутся этими шпагами, кто первый на сотую долю секунды ударит тот и победил, по сути большенство боёв заканивается обоюдным уколом, в старину наверно так недрались, а больше на защиту внимания обращали
@Kucarain But you have to remember, fencing evolved when weapons evolved. Fencing assumes the opponent has minimal armour. In that situation, a heavier weapon that is swung would often lose.
@MrNozza123 Respectfully, that evolution of weapons hypothesis was common during the 19th century but, it's just not true. I've fought and observed many cross-style bouts and the trend lines show the better fighter wins. Also, let us not forget, in competition, the rules that one is fighting under can make a substantial difference in outcomes. Armor vs. civilian weapons is a problem. Short vs. long can be difficult. Sword vs. sword- it's the user.
I guess as a modern day analogy, if you put 3 men - one with a shotgun, one with a pistol and one with a rifle (no sniper sights) in a forest within 1 mile radius for 2 days. Who will win?
Pistols and shotgun have no range, rifles and shotguns are poor in highly confined spaces, rifles and pistols need superior marksmanship. Perhaps, the difference is in the conditions the battle takes place and whose strategy is better utilized to negate the other advantages??
The rifle is an enormous advantage, even if it's bolt action, and its weaknesses are not enough to make it some kind of fair, paper-rock-scissors kind of fight. Just like someone using a European style straight sword will have a huge advantage against someone with a typical Japanese cutting blade.
Well, I'm thinking of highly confined spaces not unlike ventilated ducts where you can only crawl. I would think a rifle is cumbersome in such environments. That's why bullpup rifles were invented and being adopted.
The movements in fencing largely come from heavier blades designed to stab through mail and the weak spots of plate armor, they didn't poof into existence suddenly with the advent of flimsy, thin civilian swords. In fact, the straight thrust was used by swords able to defeat European armor, so they would be especially adept at defeating inferior Japanese armor.
If that were the case, K1 kickboxing would be dominated by TKD and Karate fighters, since there are FAR more of them in the world. Some styles ARE better. If I used drunken boxing, I would be a lot worse off than any decent, competition sharpened style that demands efficient movements. A fencer has an enormous advantage with his/her straight line attack and footwork.
@Fektthis Actually no. Technology marches on. In cross discipline duels the more modern weapon and technique almost always wins regardless of skill. The lighter quicker fencing epee is a massive advantage over the bulky shinai. Soldiers historically had good reasons for adopting new weapons...
@Exshinrasoldier Yes. The martial equivalent of the epee is the 19th century duelling sword. The martial equivalent of the foil is the 18th smallsword/court sword. The martial equivalent of the olympic sabre is the late 19th duelling sabre. All of them are would be sharp. None of them would have rebated flexibility for safety. Like the shinai is a proxy for the katana, so the fencing weapons were proxy for real duelling weapons.
but would one who has been fencing his entire life be able to use the real equivalent of the fencing sword? like i know in kendo they use live blades for training all the time. more then prepared to use one if the need be.
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no bashing or anything bro, just wanted to know ^^ peace.
@Exshinrasoldier Unlikely. Most sport/olympic fencers only fence with their sporting versions and have never held a real duelling wepon. Some classical fencers/historical do but they are a minority. Likewise while many kendoka train with a shinai many never really train with a katana, its only those who practice kenjutsu who know how to trully use a katana. In both kendo and fencing there are techniques you simply wouldnt use if your life was on the line
@Exshinrasoldier Although Olympic Champion Aldo Nadi fought a duel in the 1920's against a experienced duellist. He still won though even by his own admission he had never fought with sharp weapons before. You can find his chilling account on google (keywords Aldo Nadi Duel). You can use many of the same techniques, but none of the more elaborate moves, which will simply get you killed quickly.
@Exshinrasoldier I think now....sword fighting is all about art. Whether its Fencing or Kendo. Eh... they used to use live blades for fencing too. WAY BACK IN THE DAY! XD like all sword fighting. Then fencing was inducted to become an olympic sport....is Kendo an olympic sport?...im being serious is it?
@Exshinrasoldier I think now....sword fighting is all about art. Whether its Fencing or Kendo. Eh... they used to use live blades for fencing too. WAY BACK IN THE DAY! XD like all sword fighting. Then fencing was inducted to become an olympic sport....is Kendo an olympic sport?...im being serious is it?
shouldn't they be wearing the opposing sport's protective gear, rather than their own? The fencer's sword could definitely weasel between the bars of the kendo mask.
Each of the practitioners are made comfortable in their attire since that's what they train in, they therefore most likely will perform their best in it.
Secondly, the potential risk of injury adds to the realism, (Kendo gets no psychological advantage - fencer can't parry like you would with a rapier).
How do you expect him to perry that wodden sword with a cable-like weapon? But as a fencer, I can say that Kendo needs more effort than fencing... But less tactics
This stupid. Kendo is a sword fight originally derived from use of katana, a war-sword. Fencing is a art for of a rapier, a sub-weapon for a spear or a broadsword. By the purpose of weaponry, kendo is bound to be superior. It will be a totally different story against broadsword, gladius, and Damascus sword.
@Gitanes081280 Not quite correct. The rapier is not a substitution weapon for the spear or broadsword, it was a duelling weapon in its own right. Also Olympic fencing does not translate to the use of the rapier. Its training was meant to teach the 19th century regulation dueling weapon (epee) the 17th century smallsword (foil) and the 19th century duelling sabre (sabre). Kendo is derived from a battlefield side arm, but real fencing weapons are not flexible/blunted like in olympic fencing.
@Gitanes081280 And even better for stage fencing. Who told you that fencing is an art of rapier? Sabre is not a fencing or is a sort of rapeir? and what you see here is not a rapier.
I was so excited to get into Kendo... but its so close minded...The very idea of seriously doing a bout like this is silly any way... especially since they picked Saber! Wtf? Saber? I mean... i know they Also don't strike the legs, like in Kendo(lame) but still...Epee would be more realistic, much more! Also the rules in each sport are so different...Also style counts for nothing... Its all about the Athlete as an idavidual
@ANBUKakashi575 Why epee will be much realistic? Do you understand, that kendo is a slashing weapon like sabre? It will be a bit easier to poor kendo dude to defend against eppe, but sabre is the most realistic weapon. It is all about tactics. One (kendo) is ridiculous and another is reasonable. That's it.
These types of things are stupid I find. Kendo vs Fencing. More like one person VS another person. Also in kendo and in fencing you get more than one chance to touch. So why don't they have a match that goes on for a while? Either way if one person is a better sword fighter then he will win regardless the style. Getting stabbed is getting stabbed.
@drysabre I don't know that much about kendo but I do know about Kenjutsu and I'm pretty sure a Fencer would be cut in half along with his sword by a real sword master. Again I think it would depend on the skill of the person.
@RicRagsLive Can you please post a link to Kenjutsu video? Everything I found doesn't impress me yet. WIll appreciate. You absolutely right when you refer to skill level. Fencing, Kendo, Smendo or Schmondo, or whatever else doesn't exist by itself. Each discipline is represented by concrete person. Two thumbs up.
@RicRagsLive And you know this how, exactly? Because your japanese cartoons have told you so? Considering that cutting people in half is considered to be a myth, you don't sound like much of an expert.
I'm going to go ahead and give the match to the Kendoka because while he would have gotten stabbed in the hip, the fencer would have eaten a katana through the top of his head.
@wesgrip You have made the same mistake countless others have made on this thread, If you look carefully at 0:17 sec from the over the shoulder replay camera you can see the kendoka's shinai misses the head. The side view is very misleading.
navyteccs - 1) Fencing came about for one on one un-armored dueling (Not effective for the battlefield). 2) Samuria armor? Really? Come on! It was made to stop piercing weaponry (arrows,spears,etc). 3) Why not have an un-armored Kendoist go up against someone in full plate European armor? .
When I try to discuss what was being done tactically I usually lose them or I get the ever common response of "That is impossible and can not be done" to which I say "Why not? I just did it to you". They never respond after this (Yes I have gotten this response from at least a half dozen individuals).
over what is tactically being done, same as in video) not to mention objective fencing or personal observations by the coach. I will stop here as the list does go on and on. As for the Kendoist, in short I could not give a dissertation on a Kendoists training and what they particularly focus on. All I can say is that their instructors just do not drill them in this way. In fact every match I have ever been in the Kendoists is usually fixated on what was being done technically...
I would have to say it is the way they train. Look at a competitive fencer. A coach will, yes, clean up technique where needed but, as quickly as possible move beyond that and drill the fencer endlessly on tactics (distance, timing and tempo). The fencer will be given drills with other fencers that are geared toward specifically manipulating these three things as well as video observation (Of world class fencers) and club mate observation (that is watching two club members fence and going...
if u guys are QQing cuz u think the samurai could beat a french soldier then your right. but in these 2 sports fencing will always win because fencing is pure speed and directness, and has much better footwork. but in reality fencing swords would never penetrate samurai armor. and even if it did the strike wouldnt be enough to kill somone right away (unless it struck some where vital which doesnt happen often) and the samurai would have a short time to strike a much more devastating blow.
Well I fenced a little in school, but never tried kendo, but I always learned that fencing was about thrusting and stabbing. Since when did slapping someone on the thigh with the side of your foil count as a win?
To lanjib your a douche.... but anyways reason fencing was the winner because it was on defense, then offense however the kendo guy was on offense then defense then back to offense
@TheTrismegistos let me rephrase that, when your locked at the hilt and you boot somone in the ribs to push them away while keeping a concious effort to not get your leg chopped off, why is that not allowed? or do you even know
@TheTrismegistos No, never. The moment you attempt, against a skilled opponent, they'd just move the sword down and sever the leg.
The better "hand to hand" techniques can be seen in short sword Kendo in which one can seize the opponent's arm, in order to prevent them cutting, to stab or strike them. Kicking is unwise, and illegal.
I don't get it. Since when did sports become "protect my leg from your sword?" If it were that serious it's a death "match" lol, the one with more hate wins.
but yea, i would think light steel is faster than a wooden stick
@SaoriOx Actually the leg/groin is one of the more important areas the protect. The Femeral artery is one of the more important points to hit as severing it will cause a man to very quickly bleed out unless a torniquet is quickly applied. As for the Sabre hit quite frankly I think it was (according to the discipline at least )off target - below the waist line. Mind you the kendoka misses the head shot too, so it isnt a very instructive video either way.
@SaoriOx Its more the idea, based upon the origin of the sport. As Sport Fencing came from rapier techniques, Kendo evolved from kenjutsu, in which you couldnt find time to do something reckless like kicking and risking your leg. The one with more hate as you put it, DOES NOT win, because, generally, anger/hate/rage will make a fighter reckless - the one with the clearest mind wins. TO say otherwise is folly.
Probably, but then, metal is generally heavier. I have used both and know this.
Also you completely disregarded my point from my earlier statements. Fighting has nothing to do with the sword you use. Hell, all things being equal, you could have the worst technique in the world and be up against a man who has done nothing but study forms and soundly school the man if you manage the distance better.
What, by your definition is a real sword? Was not an Epee blade used as a dualling sword at one time and why not a foil? If you are talking about cut vs thrust, historically the thrust has been proven superior in an unarmored dual. Which now puts us into thrusting weapons. Are you referencing the rapier? In which case you are ignorant of the fact that a lighter blade gives a series advantage. Thus a court sword or even an Epee would have an advantage over someone with a clumsy Rapier.
sorry but the foil is only fast enough because of how light and bendable..real combat he would die...I fence and do kendo...mix them with a real sword and beat both.
@sallenbaugh Its not a Foil its a Olympic Sabre. The weight of a Olympic sabre is approximatly the same as a Shinai plus the blade length is shorter. Im wondering if you really have fenced if you cant tell the difference between the disciplines...
@muresug since I wasnt talking about the foil or a shinai...and was refering to real swords. I can actually fence with real weapons....you Im sure just fence with your mouth from your computer...I on the otherhand do live matches. If you dont like my improper wording your to traditional to have useful skill anyway...
Though a Kendoist can keep distance very well they are lacking in the ability to control distance and have no concept of stealing distance. Now I will stop at distance and not even touch timing or tempo as everything I just said will probably go over every ones head and to talk further on the practical applications of tactics would only increase confusion.
These three things are how you tactically fight regardless of what you do. It is the chess theory of martial arts so to speak. How to block and how strike means nothing without these three.Distance is the most important of the three and is the corner stone of everything you do (A weak cornerstone makes your house crumble but a strong one makes impregnable). Nothing you do will work if you do not have good distance control. Fencing, as everyone tends to overlook, is a game of distance.
Funny thing this, Kendo vs Fencing debate. Honestly I have gone against many kendoist and have had more of a challenge from some un-rated fencers (The highest practitioner of Kendo being a first don from Japan). ANY martial combat, be it hand or with a weapon comes down to three things. Distance, timing and tempo.
OHAY, LET'S HAVE TWO DIFFERENT SPORTS THAT EVOLVED AWAY FROM COMBAT FACE OFF! IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT THEY HAVE DIFFERENT SCORING SYSTEMS OR ARE HIDEOUSLY REMOVED FROM COMBAT, BUT JAPAN NATIONALISM WINS, SO I'VE GOT MY BONER ALL THE SAME!
@TheChefeChapado The kendoka actually misses with his shinai. Check at 0:17 the replay camera shot from over the shoulder. Its fairly obvious from the replay the the shinai does not hit the head. Before causing damage you have to be able to hit your target first.
@muresug well, you can actually here the slap, i doubt a shinai would make that sound if it didn't touch the mask, sure it wasn't an official hit, but it still touched the mask
fencing student caught him in the thigh, causing at most a flesh wound, while the kendo student slashed his opponent's face in half. In manner of speed, its obvious that the one with the longer stick will be the winner. Its like trying to see whats faster, a back hand hook or a jab.
@Temujin4815 Ah but the kendoka missed the head as pointed out on this thread about a hundred times. Check at 0:17 The camera replay from over the shoulder gives the best view You can see that the shinai's trajectory is well wide of the head.
@bgvfm Ya, I fenced for 3yrs (in high school). Though since I graduated, I haven't really sparred at all! :( Foil is just too quick, kendo = dead. lol
faut comparer ce qui est comparable les gens, ce sabre a etait employer avec l'arrivé des tercios espagnol, le "pique and shot" le sabre avait un role mineur
une arme a deux main ne peux pas vaincre une arme a une main et bouclier...^^
@titi89911 C'est pas un fleuret dans le video, le discipline c'est sabre olympique. Le sabre militaire comme le katana sert a TUER pas seulement a BLESSER. (francais c'est pas ma langue, desolais)
@muresug Je n'ai jamais dit que le katana servait à blesser. Bien au contraire, le katana est une ARME déstiné à TUER son adversaire. Et dans la video, l'homme en blanc (escrimeur) qui tient un malheureux fleuret se prend un jolie "men". Dans la vrai vie, il serait mort... le kendoka, dans son armure, n'a pas senti la faible frappe de l'escrimeur.
@titi89911 C'est pas un men. Regarde a 0:18 la vue par derriere. Tu peux voir que le kendoka a manque sa botte en plein soleil, en tant qu'a certifié beaucoup de fois dans ce fil. En plus je pense che tu croix che un sabre militaire c'est un arme de formation come le sabre olympique! Le sabre militaire pouvez certainement passer armatueur.Si le kendoka utilser un katana dans le vrai vie, alor un escrimeur emploierait un sabre militaire.
@titi89911 Ce n'est pas la même technique employé. L'escrimeur n'est pas entrainé à se servir d'un katana qui pèse plus d'un1 kg pour rappel (et ne peux donc pas se tenir d'une main dans la position de l'escrimeur). Il est vrai que de plus près le kendoka a bel et bien frôlé la tête de son adversaire, mais avec quel puissance... :o
I can confirm that this is in fact sabre (you can tell from the guard)
Either way this is a poor attack. Sabreurers usually do cuts to the head and below the waist is considered off target. And any épéeist who let's his lunges plunge that far will have a face full of holes.
Kendo was proven stronger repeatedly back in the1920's. You know, back when they were smart enough to switch helmets. :P
And the fencer getting the leg while the kendoka gets the head is very common throughout history of these matches, probably the single most common outcome. It seems obvious but some people need to reminded that it is somewhat possible that having your leg stabbed might kill you, LOL
weight difference is almost negligable and possibly even equal, after all the shinai is made of bamboo. On the other hand the sabre is 88cm long while the Shinai is 120cm. I think is pretty fair.
@Saberdemon101 Epee max weight is 770g with average weight about 500 and is the HEAVIEST of the three fencing disciplines. But what you see in the video is not epee it is a Sabre. His guard is upright as opposed to pointing towards the and the conductive metal jacket over the arms torso and the head indicate that he is a sabreaur. An epeeist wears no conductive metal material. But the most telling evidence is the sword itself. At 0:12 you can see the distinctive curved bell guard of he sabre
@ThaiBettas I think that normally it would have made contact, but when fencers lunge the body is usually lowered futher down from where the kendoka expects the head to normally be. Im pretty sure if it was repeated the kendoka would quicky adjust.
@DeRandomSpamm No you are looking at it from just the side angle. The bend in the shinai is just inertia and is a natural product of physics, It doesnt mean it has actually hit anything. The view from the cam replay over the shoulder at 0:18 sec shows the whole trajectory of the strike and it's fairly obvious the shinai doesnt get touch the head.
Kendo just reactively chops up and down. The saber fencer merely feinted and got the reaction and then hit. I am glad to see the Japanese judges were honest, honorable enough to admit it.
@deaddoc these kinds of sports evolved from killing techniques.. they are different now but some fundamentals still apply.. the reason why a hit counts as a hit in kendo is because each strike is enough to disable your opponent.. thus why a hit has any significance at all.. what's fencing gonna do, short of piercing somebody's heart or brain? a strike that aims to chop off the arm or slice open the brain is bounds to take longer. some common sense goes a long way friend. think, think a little.
@spyletu You don't need to insult me. As a modern fencer, I helped developed rapier and dagger fencing in the early 80s on. We had lots of Eastern guys including Kendo practiioners who wanted to do it and thought their styles were superior. The Western fencer is supposed to evade and make a hit. It was proven in at least the 19th century that a cut is not as devastating as a pierce. Even a pierce to an arm is disabling. Cont2;
@deaddoc Cont2; I proved that for real against a Kendo style fighter once. Kendo fighters a stiff, and only do one thing. Fencing requires lots of movement, adaptive tactics and evasion of heavy blades like the Katana to make hits to make mostly point hits. The cultural difference is that in Western dueling sometimes only that first blood sufficed to satisfy honor. It made it more civilized. But until they began to sterilize blades many died from infections.
@spyletu Actually Im with deaddoc on this. Surgeons on the napoleonic wars actually have figures on this. The British changed their swords from cutters to thrusters because they found that because the french thrust their weapons their British soldiers died more often, while the french though dreadfully chopped could be fit for service with proper care and treatment. A thrust really does kill, especially if aimed at the internal organs, where the body goes into involuntary shock.
"for me i would say fencing is for pussys and kendo ist for real warriors"
LMAO you still couldn’t get the spelling right even when you copied and pasted from a word processor !!! :)
To make such as statement means that you do neither arts! Further more only a fucking idiot, would castigate against his/her own, cultural heritage; In favour of a system, that was less sophisticated and contained less techniques then European medieval long sword fencing.
@Bulllseye2012 are you not able to understand words when the are not 100% perfectly spell right ? thats sad.... and to your comment i do kendo and for me it comes more close to be a warrior just from the fact that you have to wear a bogu (armor) and other facts as f.eks. the state of mind a kendoka tries to achieve where live or death have no meaning
@Bulllseye2012 believe what you want for all i care i know what i do in my life you dont
and still its sad how you want perfect grammatic after all the brain don't even need it to understand a sentence or words for that matter and English is not my main language even it it was i have no need for a perfect sentence to understand it only people like you and that is just poor : /
I’ll tell you what then. I’ll post the link to your neck of the woods, for the Historical European Martial Arts (Northern Europe) finder. I suggest you go down to one of these groups with your bamboo, walk in and tell them to their face “fencing is for pussys and kendo ist for real warriors”
@loknar86 I grew up doing Kendo, moved to go to college in 06 and there was no Kendo. I figured that fencing was a pussy sport like you and that it would be an easy A so I took a class. Short story, I am a Ni-dan and I'll be fencing epee this weekend at nationals in Reno, so I have sufficient knowledge of both. If I were to say that one art was superior to the other in pure fighting, then I'd have to side with fencing. Kendo is still my first love, but to say that fencing is inferior is ignorant
@Bulllseye2012 and for the being a idiot for castigate against the own culture and so on, well i would say only a smart person would have a open and wide horizons to choose what he or she likes more
@loknar86 But with that statement you play into Bullseye2012's argument: Japan was definetly more isolationalist than the europeans and were unwilling to learn from other nations or cultures. At least in europe they were willing to adopt the scimitar (eventually sabre) from the middle-east and were willing to re-examine swordplay from the point of view of science than thinking tradition was always better. And before disparaging 'fencing is for pussys' you really should try it before criticising.
@loknar86 I would have to disagree, both arts are fantastic in their own ways. French, German, and Spanish style fencers were fantastic warriors in their era and their countries, just as the Japanese fencers were fantastic warriors in their countries and eras. The samurai were the elite as were the musketeers. Both around in the same time period and both were fantastic at their jobs. It's all a matter of preference. In a life or death duel, it comes down to the fighter in that moment.
For myself I took Tai Chi for a while: Im quite stocky and as a foil fencer I found that I used to tense up in the shoulder and eventually my arm, making my blade work in competitions heavy and unable to react to stimuli. Tai Chi taught me flowing and plastic arm movements that enabled me to make better disengaged. So all all fighting styles are to be respected if only because they may have something to teach that our own style doesnt have.
(except for lightsaber geeks- not sure about them)
"I don’t think Lees work split I think Inosantoe is using a form of Silat and its too complex at that!"
There defenitly is a split and the two sides dont like each other (ridiculous I know...) An interesting book on the subject of the diference is the book by Teri Tom - The straight Lead (It even talks aboy the JKD/Fencing connection. I always wondered where Inosanto Silat/kali stuff came in. Certainly dont see it in Bruce's Tao
"We could also learn mindfullness from kendo or Mushin."
Well maybe, or you could learn the zen way of flower arranging? Or take up Yoga.
My main argument goes to the Japanophile, Katanaphile. That some how its better then anybody else! Take a look at some of the minds that got helped the development of Fence such as Voltaire, up against What basically a Folk Art!
@Bulllseye2012 "My main argument goes to the Japanophile, Katanaphile. That some how its better then anybody else!"
I know I know, the curse of the otaku/weeaboo fanatic that thinks katana's are magic. But disparaging the japanese arts is counterproductive. The greater problem if the perception of Fencing in popular culture as an art for 'poncey fairys', rather than the fact that it was an science born out killing efficiency. Blame hollywood for that and those technicolour 50's movies.
Jap kendo nearly died out after the Satsuma uprising 1877. The head of the Tokyo police “Kawaji Toshiyoshi,” got Kendo into part of the police training. As he wrote that ,“Fencing is practised assiduously in various western nation. If Japan abolishes fencing, then some day we will have to learn it from them."
“Now the Sabre is nowhere as Sharpe as the Japanese sword; so if we abolish Japanese Swordsmanship & learn to use the western Sabre, that would be evident to throwing away gold & picking up broken roofing tiles."
@AngelBiLove Thanks you straight and to the point, my friends fences and I have a blackbelt in Tae Kwon Do, Kempo, and Aikido. We duel with opposite swords all the time and our victories go back and forth all the time, It's a stupid arguement. The two are such opposites for totally different cultures using completely different sword. If you put fencers on a battlefield against knights or samurai they'd be killed, because a small fencing sword can't pierce such armor. But one on one, it's differe
KENDO FOREVER
augusteplise 1 week ago
フェンシングは道着の横をかすめたに過ぎない。よって致命傷に至っていない。
しかし、剣道は相手の顔に到達している。かなり致命傷。
実践では、やはり剣道が最強でしょう。
hatoyamako 1 month ago
@hatoyamako
実戦どうこうじゃなくて、これは、剣道という「競技」と、フェンシングという「競技」の試合。
実戦は関係ない。
enkatsugi 1 month ago
@ComradeMing well, the kendoka would have also sustained a flesh wound somewhere around the hips or legs.
KatanaRapierCombo2 2 months ago
@ComradeMing what's IRL?
KatanaRapierCombo2 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Korea always steals other countries' culture, ideas, ....everything! They claimed everything about japan is all from korea. but not only Japanese things. Also Christianity, Jesus....these are also from Korea, they claimed.
Koreans shameless plagiarism has no limit. Please find out the truth from following video.
/watch?v=FaOCQ9AQyP0
kyokutouyori 2 months ago
when using sharp long things, speed (fencing) is always a huge advantage over raw power (kendo). I mean the loser is going to get hit anyway, you don't get any more points for using both hands on a big ass sword.
zxz1357 2 months ago
@zxz1357
burdzsu 2 months ago
Válasz a videóra... n
burdzsu 2 months ago
@zxz1357 um, kendo isn't raw power, there is speed as well, and the katana is a fairly small sword compared to others like the claymore, broadsword, etc. but other than that, i'm trying to figure out y they wouldn't put the katana against a sabre... seems like it would make more sense
ryuhayabusa2000 2 months ago
So a 950yo art vs a 100yo 'thing'
Why dont i see the logic behind this?
TheTommyKay 2 months ago
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@TheTommyKay
Not certain where your getting those dates from? I do know that Kendo is about 100 yrs old.
While western fencing, has come out of thousands of yrs of technical and innovative design, from continually evolving warfare and civil defence. An art developed out of logic and mathematics, into the art we have today.
As opposed to an ossified folk art, based upon the subjective teachings of individuals, in a society that stagnated for centuries!
Bulllseye2012 2 months ago
Darth Maul vs Zorro? xD
nintendo4ever123 3 months ago
Afro samurai!!
Nigga.
ededdandtwiztid 3 months ago
this match could have been a tie
if the fencer was sabre then hitting under the waist (which it appears he did) would have counted as a miss, but he still got the first hit
the kendoka got the fencer on the head, but not a direct hit, it was more like a light brush passed by the side of the fencer's mask
KatanaRapierCombo2 3 months ago
Well i guess that settles the Kendo vs Fencing dispute once and for all, right guys? ... Guys? *scroll down and looks at comments* I guess not >.>
bigbergice 3 months ago
В кендо привычные оклонятся от ударов и блокировать их так как нехочется по башке деревяшкой получить, а в класическом фехтовании им пофиг, вот они и тычутся этими шпагами, кто первый на сотую долю секунды ударит тот и победил, по сути большенство боёв заканивается обоюдным уколом, в старину наверно так недрались, а больше на защиту внимания обращали
alexeykudin 3 months ago
Its proven Fencing is alot more harder to avoid then kendo techinques !
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MessageWarning 3 months ago
@MessageWarning This is true, people!
JaKTheatre 3 months ago
Comment removed
dellkaitai 3 months ago
it's more a matter of the skill of the man holding the sword than the discipline itself. it could go either way depending on who it is.
Fektthis 3 months ago 20
@Fektthis Its always the fighter who makes the difference, not the style.
Kucarain 3 months ago 16
@Kucarain Hmm, I partly agree friend, but I train MMA and I've seen styles make results a lot more times than you might think
DamienNeverwinter 1 month ago
@DamienNeverwinter But then it's up to the fighter how he/she use them
narnia5k 1 month ago
@narnia5k Agreed, but having a diverse array of techniques opens a lot of angles
DamienNeverwinter 1 month ago
@Kucarain But you have to remember, fencing evolved when weapons evolved. Fencing assumes the opponent has minimal armour. In that situation, a heavier weapon that is swung would often lose.
MrNozza123 1 month ago
@MrNozza123 Respectfully, that evolution of weapons hypothesis was common during the 19th century but, it's just not true. I've fought and observed many cross-style bouts and the trend lines show the better fighter wins. Also, let us not forget, in competition, the rules that one is fighting under can make a substantial difference in outcomes. Armor vs. civilian weapons is a problem. Short vs. long can be difficult. Sword vs. sword- it's the user.
MrCralexander 1 month ago
@MrNozza123
I guess as a modern day analogy, if you put 3 men - one with a shotgun, one with a pistol and one with a rifle (no sniper sights) in a forest within 1 mile radius for 2 days. Who will win?
Pistols and shotgun have no range, rifles and shotguns are poor in highly confined spaces, rifles and pistols need superior marksmanship. Perhaps, the difference is in the conditions the battle takes place and whose strategy is better utilized to negate the other advantages??
5beckenbauer 3 weeks ago
@5beckenbauer
The rifle is an enormous advantage, even if it's bolt action, and its weaknesses are not enough to make it some kind of fair, paper-rock-scissors kind of fight. Just like someone using a European style straight sword will have a huge advantage against someone with a typical Japanese cutting blade.
chiconspiracy 3 weeks ago
@chiconspiracy
Well, I'm thinking of highly confined spaces not unlike ventilated ducts where you can only crawl. I would think a rifle is cumbersome in such environments. That's why bullpup rifles were invented and being adopted.
5beckenbauer 3 weeks ago
@MrNozza123
The movements in fencing largely come from heavier blades designed to stab through mail and the weak spots of plate armor, they didn't poof into existence suddenly with the advent of flimsy, thin civilian swords. In fact, the straight thrust was used by swords able to defeat European armor, so they would be especially adept at defeating inferior Japanese armor.
chiconspiracy 3 weeks ago
@Kucarain
If that were the case, K1 kickboxing would be dominated by TKD and Karate fighters, since there are FAR more of them in the world. Some styles ARE better. If I used drunken boxing, I would be a lot worse off than any decent, competition sharpened style that demands efficient movements. A fencer has an enormous advantage with his/her straight line attack and footwork.
chiconspiracy 3 weeks ago
@Fektthis Actually no. Technology marches on. In cross discipline duels the more modern weapon and technique almost always wins regardless of skill. The lighter quicker fencing epee is a massive advantage over the bulky shinai. Soldiers historically had good reasons for adopting new weapons...
bishop8000 1 month ago
they should make an all weapon style (kendo ,fencig , escrima,etc)sport where all weapon sports come together and compete with each other
fellowmercenary 4 months ago
the spear is a good weapon. longer range than rapier and u also use it with two hands.
aiwhklgo 4 months ago
just twirl the sword in circles and close in. the fencer has no chance.
backpack117 4 months ago
@backpack117 He could, you know, block it and push it aside?
MrkDorker 4 months ago
its just a realy long toothpick right??
Exshinrasoldier 4 months ago
im sorry, is there such a thing as a "sharp" fencing sword?
Exshinrasoldier 4 months ago
@Exshinrasoldier Yes. The martial equivalent of the epee is the 19th century duelling sword. The martial equivalent of the foil is the 18th smallsword/court sword. The martial equivalent of the olympic sabre is the late 19th duelling sabre. All of them are would be sharp. None of them would have rebated flexibility for safety. Like the shinai is a proxy for the katana, so the fencing weapons were proxy for real duelling weapons.
muresug 4 months ago
@muresug aaah i understand.
but would one who has been fencing his entire life be able to use the real equivalent of the fencing sword? like i know in kendo they use live blades for training all the time. more then prepared to use one if the need be.
-
no bashing or anything bro, just wanted to know ^^ peace.
Exshinrasoldier 4 months ago
@Exshinrasoldier Unlikely. Most sport/olympic fencers only fence with their sporting versions and have never held a real duelling wepon. Some classical fencers/historical do but they are a minority. Likewise while many kendoka train with a shinai many never really train with a katana, its only those who practice kenjutsu who know how to trully use a katana. In both kendo and fencing there are techniques you simply wouldnt use if your life was on the line
muresug 4 months ago
@Exshinrasoldier Although Olympic Champion Aldo Nadi fought a duel in the 1920's against a experienced duellist. He still won though even by his own admission he had never fought with sharp weapons before. You can find his chilling account on google (keywords Aldo Nadi Duel). You can use many of the same techniques, but none of the more elaborate moves, which will simply get you killed quickly.
muresug 4 months ago
@Exshinrasoldier I think now....sword fighting is all about art. Whether its Fencing or Kendo. Eh... they used to use live blades for fencing too. WAY BACK IN THE DAY! XD like all sword fighting. Then fencing was inducted to become an olympic sport....is Kendo an olympic sport?...im being serious is it?
Tonemysterme 4 months ago
@Exshinrasoldier I think now....sword fighting is all about art. Whether its Fencing or Kendo. Eh... they used to use live blades for fencing too. WAY BACK IN THE DAY! XD like all sword fighting. Then fencing was inducted to become an olympic sport....is Kendo an olympic sport?...im being serious is it?
Tonemysterme 4 months ago
@Tonemysterme no it's not an olympic sport yet. japan had been strictly against it. they won't even let you call kendo a "sport".
symptomx42 3 months ago
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KatanaRapierCombo2 3 months ago
in a death match, kendo would kick his ass
androris 4 months ago
powerful slow slash vs quick jab thats the result
BladeOfForsaken 4 months ago
shouldn't they be wearing the opposing sport's protective gear, rather than their own? The fencer's sword could definitely weasel between the bars of the kendo mask.
TrevescoDrew 4 months ago 60
@TrevescoDrew I agree.
FuckinSeriousBusines 4 months ago
@TrevescoDrew wow. i cant agree more to this
ImNotTooSweet 1 month ago
@TrevescoDrew
Each of the practitioners are made comfortable in their attire since that's what they train in, they therefore most likely will perform their best in it.
Secondly, the potential risk of injury adds to the realism, (Kendo gets no psychological advantage - fencer can't parry like you would with a rapier).
5beckenbauer 3 weeks ago
@TrevescoDrew yes but it would be pretty hard fighting i a uniform youve never worn before thats more of a liability then helpfull
suckitpricks 3 weeks ago
How do you expect him to perry that wodden sword with a cable-like weapon? But as a fencer, I can say that Kendo needs more effort than fencing... But less tactics
GnomishPWN 4 months ago
This stupid. Kendo is a sword fight originally derived from use of katana, a war-sword. Fencing is a art for of a rapier, a sub-weapon for a spear or a broadsword. By the purpose of weaponry, kendo is bound to be superior. It will be a totally different story against broadsword, gladius, and Damascus sword.
Gitanes081280 4 months ago
@Gitanes081280 Not quite correct. The rapier is not a substitution weapon for the spear or broadsword, it was a duelling weapon in its own right. Also Olympic fencing does not translate to the use of the rapier. Its training was meant to teach the 19th century regulation dueling weapon (epee) the 17th century smallsword (foil) and the 19th century duelling sabre (sabre). Kendo is derived from a battlefield side arm, but real fencing weapons are not flexible/blunted like in olympic fencing.
muresug 4 months ago
@Gitanes081280 And even better for stage fencing. Who told you that fencing is an art of rapier? Sabre is not a fencing or is a sort of rapeir? and what you see here is not a rapier.
drysabre 4 months ago
2 fast for one camera
jumba4u 4 months ago
I was so excited to get into Kendo... but its so close minded...The very idea of seriously doing a bout like this is silly any way... especially since they picked Saber! Wtf? Saber? I mean... i know they Also don't strike the legs, like in Kendo(lame) but still...Epee would be more realistic, much more! Also the rules in each sport are so different...Also style counts for nothing... Its all about the Athlete as an idavidual
ANBUKakashi575 4 months ago
@ANBUKakashi575 Why epee will be much realistic? Do you understand, that kendo is a slashing weapon like sabre? It will be a bit easier to poor kendo dude to defend against eppe, but sabre is the most realistic weapon. It is all about tactics. One (kendo) is ridiculous and another is reasonable. That's it.
drysabre 4 months ago
These types of things are stupid I find. Kendo vs Fencing. More like one person VS another person. Also in kendo and in fencing you get more than one chance to touch. So why don't they have a match that goes on for a while? Either way if one person is a better sword fighter then he will win regardless the style. Getting stabbed is getting stabbed.
RicRagsLive 4 months ago
@RicRagsLive No. To me kendo simply can't compete with fencing. Put two high level fighters against each other - no chance for kendo.
drysabre 4 months ago
@drysabre I don't know that much about kendo but I do know about Kenjutsu and I'm pretty sure a Fencer would be cut in half along with his sword by a real sword master. Again I think it would depend on the skill of the person.
RicRagsLive 4 months ago
@RicRagsLive Can you please post a link to Kenjutsu video? Everything I found doesn't impress me yet. WIll appreciate. You absolutely right when you refer to skill level. Fencing, Kendo, Smendo or Schmondo, or whatever else doesn't exist by itself. Each discipline is represented by concrete person. Two thumbs up.
drysabre 4 months ago
@RicRagsLive And you know this how, exactly? Because your japanese cartoons have told you so? Considering that cutting people in half is considered to be a myth, you don't sound like much of an expert.
MrkDorker 4 months ago
I'm going to go ahead and give the match to the Kendoka because while he would have gotten stabbed in the hip, the fencer would have eaten a katana through the top of his head.
wesgrip 4 months ago
@wesgrip You have made the same mistake countless others have made on this thread, If you look carefully at 0:17 sec from the over the shoulder replay camera you can see the kendoka's shinai misses the head. The side view is very misleading.
muresug 4 months ago
navyteccs - 1) Fencing came about for one on one un-armored dueling (Not effective for the battlefield). 2) Samuria armor? Really? Come on! It was made to stop piercing weaponry (arrows,spears,etc). 3) Why not have an un-armored Kendoist go up against someone in full plate European armor? .
4) Japanese did have unarmored duels too.
fencer1221 4 months ago
When I try to discuss what was being done tactically I usually lose them or I get the ever common response of "That is impossible and can not be done" to which I say "Why not? I just did it to you". They never respond after this (Yes I have gotten this response from at least a half dozen individuals).
fencer1221 4 months ago
over what is tactically being done, same as in video) not to mention objective fencing or personal observations by the coach. I will stop here as the list does go on and on. As for the Kendoist, in short I could not give a dissertation on a Kendoists training and what they particularly focus on. All I can say is that their instructors just do not drill them in this way. In fact every match I have ever been in the Kendoists is usually fixated on what was being done technically...
fencer1221 4 months ago
I would have to say it is the way they train. Look at a competitive fencer. A coach will, yes, clean up technique where needed but, as quickly as possible move beyond that and drill the fencer endlessly on tactics (distance, timing and tempo). The fencer will be given drills with other fencers that are geared toward specifically manipulating these three things as well as video observation (Of world class fencers) and club mate observation (that is watching two club members fence and going...
fencer1221 4 months ago
if u guys are QQing cuz u think the samurai could beat a french soldier then your right. but in these 2 sports fencing will always win because fencing is pure speed and directness, and has much better footwork. but in reality fencing swords would never penetrate samurai armor. and even if it did the strike wouldnt be enough to kill somone right away (unless it struck some where vital which doesnt happen often) and the samurai would have a short time to strike a much more devastating blow.
navyteccs 5 months ago
This makes no sense, this isn't sword fighting these are two different sports with different rules. Why don't we just have Rugby v.s. Curling next?
ZeroHostel 5 months ago
Well I fenced a little in school, but never tried kendo, but I always learned that fencing was about thrusting and stabbing. Since when did slapping someone on the thigh with the side of your foil count as a win?
TheNdoki 5 months ago
To lanjib your a douche.... but anyways reason fencing was the winner because it was on defense, then offense however the kendo guy was on offense then defense then back to offense
hunterlor 5 months ago
All I heard was ching chong.
Ianjib 5 months ago
@Ianjib you my sir, are a douche. :D
rainstainn 5 months ago
fencing are faster
CUBETechie 5 months ago
@CUBETechie fencing is faster but alot weaker and is ment to take down a slow fighter while kendo it fast and alot stronger
Arthos455 5 months ago
can you use kicks in kendo ive never seen it happen, i have bokken and spar unprofessionaly with my friends, we us kicks all the time.
ShatteredAlkaline 5 months ago
@ShatteredAlkaline
Of course you can't use kicks in Kendo.
TheTrismegistos 5 months ago
@TheTrismegistos fuckin stupid, why?
ShatteredAlkaline 5 months ago
@TheTrismegistos let me rephrase that, when your locked at the hilt and you boot somone in the ribs to push them away while keeping a concious effort to not get your leg chopped off, why is that not allowed? or do you even know
ShatteredAlkaline 5 months ago
@TheTrismegistos No, never. The moment you attempt, against a skilled opponent, they'd just move the sword down and sever the leg.
The better "hand to hand" techniques can be seen in short sword Kendo in which one can seize the opponent's arm, in order to prevent them cutting, to stab or strike them. Kicking is unwise, and illegal.
Samuraigothlord 5 months ago
@Samuraigothlord
I don't get it. Since when did sports become "protect my leg from your sword?" If it were that serious it's a death "match" lol, the one with more hate wins.
but yea, i would think light steel is faster than a wooden stick
SaoriOx 5 months ago
@SaoriOx Actually the leg/groin is one of the more important areas the protect. The Femeral artery is one of the more important points to hit as severing it will cause a man to very quickly bleed out unless a torniquet is quickly applied. As for the Sabre hit quite frankly I think it was (according to the discipline at least )off target - below the waist line. Mind you the kendoka misses the head shot too, so it isnt a very instructive video either way.
muresug 5 months ago
@SaoriOx Its more the idea, based upon the origin of the sport. As Sport Fencing came from rapier techniques, Kendo evolved from kenjutsu, in which you couldnt find time to do something reckless like kicking and risking your leg. The one with more hate as you put it, DOES NOT win, because, generally, anger/hate/rage will make a fighter reckless - the one with the clearest mind wins. TO say otherwise is folly.
Probably, but then, metal is generally heavier. I have used both and know this.
Samuraigothlord 5 months ago
Also you completely disregarded my point from my earlier statements. Fighting has nothing to do with the sword you use. Hell, all things being equal, you could have the worst technique in the world and be up against a man who has done nothing but study forms and soundly school the man if you manage the distance better.
fencer1221 5 months ago
What, by your definition is a real sword? Was not an Epee blade used as a dualling sword at one time and why not a foil? If you are talking about cut vs thrust, historically the thrust has been proven superior in an unarmored dual. Which now puts us into thrusting weapons. Are you referencing the rapier? In which case you are ignorant of the fact that a lighter blade gives a series advantage. Thus a court sword or even an Epee would have an advantage over someone with a clumsy Rapier.
fencer1221 5 months ago
sorry but the foil is only fast enough because of how light and bendable..real combat he would die...I fence and do kendo...mix them with a real sword and beat both.
sallenbaugh 5 months ago
@sallenbaugh Its not a Foil its a Olympic Sabre. The weight of a Olympic sabre is approximatly the same as a Shinai plus the blade length is shorter. Im wondering if you really have fenced if you cant tell the difference between the disciplines...
muresug 5 months ago
@muresug since I wasnt talking about the foil or a shinai...and was refering to real swords. I can actually fence with real weapons....you Im sure just fence with your mouth from your computer...I on the otherhand do live matches. If you dont like my improper wording your to traditional to have useful skill anyway...
sallenbaugh 5 months ago
Though a Kendoist can keep distance very well they are lacking in the ability to control distance and have no concept of stealing distance. Now I will stop at distance and not even touch timing or tempo as everything I just said will probably go over every ones head and to talk further on the practical applications of tactics would only increase confusion.
fencer1221 5 months ago
@fencer1221 top comment. top comment indeed! why can't they control distance though? I'm a newb but I've seen enough to know you are right.
Oakles22 4 months ago
These three things are how you tactically fight regardless of what you do. It is the chess theory of martial arts so to speak. How to block and how strike means nothing without these three.Distance is the most important of the three and is the corner stone of everything you do (A weak cornerstone makes your house crumble but a strong one makes impregnable). Nothing you do will work if you do not have good distance control. Fencing, as everyone tends to overlook, is a game of distance.
fencer1221 5 months ago
Funny thing this, Kendo vs Fencing debate. Honestly I have gone against many kendoist and have had more of a challenge from some un-rated fencers (The highest practitioner of Kendo being a first don from Japan). ANY martial combat, be it hand or with a weapon comes down to three things. Distance, timing and tempo.
fencer1221 5 months ago
OHAY, LET'S HAVE TWO DIFFERENT SPORTS THAT EVOLVED AWAY FROM COMBAT FACE OFF! IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT THEY HAVE DIFFERENT SCORING SYSTEMS OR ARE HIDEOUSLY REMOVED FROM COMBAT, BUT JAPAN NATIONALISM WINS, SO I'VE GOT MY BONER ALL THE SAME!
DERP!
Ungulates 5 months ago
they both would have died
Lizardvenom1 5 months ago
in a real battle situatiion:
the kendo fighter would have a slight flesh wound and the fencer would be dead with his face torn apart...
TheChefeChapado 5 months ago
@TheChefeChapado The kendoka actually misses with his shinai. Check at 0:17 the replay camera shot from over the shoulder. Its fairly obvious from the replay the the shinai does not hit the head. Before causing damage you have to be able to hit your target first.
muresug 5 months ago
@muresug well, you can actually here the slap, i doubt a shinai would make that sound if it didn't touch the mask, sure it wasn't an official hit, but it still touched the mask
KatanaRapierCombo2 4 months ago
fencing student caught him in the thigh, causing at most a flesh wound, while the kendo student slashed his opponent's face in half. In manner of speed, its obvious that the one with the longer stick will be the winner. Its like trying to see whats faster, a back hand hook or a jab.
Temujin4815 5 months ago
@Temujin4815 Ah but the kendoka missed the head as pointed out on this thread about a hundred times. Check at 0:17 The camera replay from over the shoulder gives the best view You can see that the shinai's trajectory is well wide of the head.
muresug 5 months ago
what about shinkendo...? I would want to see a shinkendo student go against a fencing student...
toastedjambread 5 months ago
Why is this even done?? LOLOLOL
khadzeeh 5 months ago
i love samurai movies but in the real world you dont need fancy techniques or cut a person in half to kill, a simple trust to the stomach can do that
andresrojas22 5 months ago
of course kendo would lose, kendo is about slashing, while fencing is stabbing, there is more movement needed to execute a kendo move
theonlyalex761 5 months ago
@theonlyalex761 That's why I prefer to fight freestyle.
InazumaWaya9 5 months ago
Kendo vs Fencing? That's not even a fair fight...
skatty14 6 months ago
@skatty14 yeah im fencer and i totally agree. Its like... Box vs Judo
bgvfm 5 months ago
@bgvfm Ya, I fenced for 3yrs (in high school). Though since I graduated, I haven't really sparred at all! :( Foil is just too quick, kendo = dead. lol
skatty14 5 months ago
フェンシングも兜かぶってるとしたら
atoc87oppo 6 months ago
fencing destroyd kendo
mobilisinmobili74 6 months ago
真剣でやってたら剣道の勝ちだな
フェンシングの方が剣道側の胴をかすめ
剣道がフェンシング側の頭をかち割る
あくまで真剣での話ですけど・・・
でも真剣だったらこんな早くに勝負決めに行かないだろうねｗｗ
dai3teikoku 6 months ago
YAY i like this
MegaTrueblade 6 months ago
LOL. This is ridiculous!
hraynaud 6 months ago
faut comparer ce qui est comparable les gens, ce sabre a etait employer avec l'arrivé des tercios espagnol, le "pique and shot" le sabre avait un role mineur
une arme a deux main ne peux pas vaincre une arme a une main et bouclier...^^
shadowfury01 6 months ago
C'est débile de comparer ces deux disciplines.
Le katana (représenté ici par un Shinai) sert à TUER alors que le fleuret sert à BLESSER.
Ensuite, va couper l'armure du kendoka avec ton fleuret... c'est impossible ;)
titi89911 6 months ago
@titi89911 C'est pas un fleuret dans le video, le discipline c'est sabre olympique. Le sabre militaire comme le katana sert a TUER pas seulement a BLESSER. (francais c'est pas ma langue, desolais)
muresug 6 months ago
@muresug Je n'ai jamais dit que le katana servait à blesser. Bien au contraire, le katana est une ARME déstiné à TUER son adversaire. Et dans la video, l'homme en blanc (escrimeur) qui tient un malheureux fleuret se prend un jolie "men". Dans la vrai vie, il serait mort... le kendoka, dans son armure, n'a pas senti la faible frappe de l'escrimeur.
titi89911 6 months ago
@titi89911 C'est pas un men. Regarde a 0:18 la vue par derriere. Tu peux voir que le kendoka a manque sa botte en plein soleil, en tant qu'a certifié beaucoup de fois dans ce fil. En plus je pense che tu croix che un sabre militaire c'est un arme de formation come le sabre olympique! Le sabre militaire pouvez certainement passer armatueur.Si le kendoka utilser un katana dans le vrai vie, alor un escrimeur emploierait un sabre militaire.
muresug 6 months ago
@titi89911 Ce n'est pas la même technique employé. L'escrimeur n'est pas entrainé à se servir d'un katana qui pèse plus d'un1 kg pour rappel (et ne peux donc pas se tenir d'une main dans la position de l'escrimeur). Il est vrai que de plus près le kendoka a bel et bien frôlé la tête de son adversaire, mais avec quel puissance... :o
titi89911 6 months ago
I can confirm that this is in fact sabre (you can tell from the guard)
Either way this is a poor attack. Sabreurers usually do cuts to the head and below the waist is considered off target. And any épéeist who let's his lunges plunge that far will have a face full of holes.
Rabbitsaretasty 6 months ago
Kendo was proven stronger repeatedly back in the1920's. You know, back when they were smart enough to switch helmets. :P
And the fencer getting the leg while the kendoka gets the head is very common throughout history of these matches, probably the single most common outcome. It seems obvious but some people need to reminded that it is somewhat possible that having your leg stabbed might kill you, LOL
blackcerberus79 6 months ago
Korean plagiarized the Samurai, Katana, Japanese martial arts and Japanese tea celemony.
/watch?v=9MaTKGpZ1Ow
unkeihokusai 6 months ago
Sabre weight Max 500g - Average weight 400.
Shinai weight Max 510g - Minimum 440
weight difference is almost negligable and possibly even equal, after all the shinai is made of bamboo. On the other hand the sabre is 88cm long while the Shinai is 120cm. I think is pretty fair.
muresug 6 months ago
@muresug he wasn't using a sabre he was using an epee which is A LOT lighter than the shinai.
Saberdemon101 6 months ago
@Saberdemon101 Epee max weight is 770g with average weight about 500 and is the HEAVIEST of the three fencing disciplines. But what you see in the video is not epee it is a Sabre. His guard is upright as opposed to pointing towards the and the conductive metal jacket over the arms torso and the head indicate that he is a sabreaur. An epeeist wears no conductive metal material. But the most telling evidence is the sword itself. At 0:12 you can see the distinctive curved bell guard of he sabre
muresug 6 months ago
Ufff. It is obvious that saber has much more light weight, so its faster. Competition wasnt fair.
graa999 6 months ago
@ThaiBettas I think that normally it would have made contact, but when fencers lunge the body is usually lowered futher down from where the kendoka expects the head to normally be. Im pretty sure if it was repeated the kendoka would quicky adjust.
muresug 6 months ago
@ThaiBettas No. Check from 0:17 over the shoulder which is the best angle. The Shinai misses the head.
muresug 6 months ago
@muresug No, you see the shinai bend when it came in contact with the head and then slide off a couple of seconds later. I think.
DeRandomSpamm 6 months ago
@DeRandomSpamm No you are looking at it from just the side angle. The bend in the shinai is just inertia and is a natural product of physics, It doesnt mean it has actually hit anything. The view from the cam replay over the shoulder at 0:18 sec shows the whole trajectory of the strike and it's fairly obvious the shinai doesnt get touch the head.
muresug 6 months ago
Kendo just reactively chops up and down. The saber fencer merely feinted and got the reaction and then hit. I am glad to see the Japanese judges were honest, honorable enough to admit it.
deaddoc 6 months ago
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spyletu 6 months ago
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spyletu 6 months ago
@deaddoc these kinds of sports evolved from killing techniques.. they are different now but some fundamentals still apply.. the reason why a hit counts as a hit in kendo is because each strike is enough to disable your opponent.. thus why a hit has any significance at all.. what's fencing gonna do, short of piercing somebody's heart or brain? a strike that aims to chop off the arm or slice open the brain is bounds to take longer. some common sense goes a long way friend. think, think a little.
spyletu 6 months ago
@spyletu You don't need to insult me. As a modern fencer, I helped developed rapier and dagger fencing in the early 80s on. We had lots of Eastern guys including Kendo practiioners who wanted to do it and thought their styles were superior. The Western fencer is supposed to evade and make a hit. It was proven in at least the 19th century that a cut is not as devastating as a pierce. Even a pierce to an arm is disabling. Cont2;
deaddoc 6 months ago
@deaddoc Cont2; I proved that for real against a Kendo style fighter once. Kendo fighters a stiff, and only do one thing. Fencing requires lots of movement, adaptive tactics and evasion of heavy blades like the Katana to make hits to make mostly point hits. The cultural difference is that in Western dueling sometimes only that first blood sufficed to satisfy honor. It made it more civilized. But until they began to sterilize blades many died from infections.
deaddoc 6 months ago
@spyletu Actually Im with deaddoc on this. Surgeons on the napoleonic wars actually have figures on this. The British changed their swords from cutters to thrusters because they found that because the french thrust their weapons their British soldiers died more often, while the french though dreadfully chopped could be fit for service with proper care and treatment. A thrust really does kill, especially if aimed at the internal organs, where the body goes into involuntary shock.
muresug 6 months ago
The rules are completely different. You can't really do the two against each other.
che3se1495 7 months ago
I didn't get... who won?
vano110 7 months ago
@vano110 ya ikr?
Ace1780 7 months ago
wtf?
TurboGeileOma 7 months ago
フルーレなんてクネクネ曲がるから、払い技なんて掛けられないよなｗｗ
まぁ、剣道なら小手でも一本とれるわけだし、おあいこになるのかな
でも、本気でどちらが強いか比較するには検証することが多そうだよね
トップレベルになると、もうスタイルなんて関係ない気もするけど
snowberd08 7 months ago
for me i would say fencing is for pussys and kendo ist for real warriors :P
loknar86 7 months ago
@loknar86
"for me i would say fencing is for pussys and kendo ist for real warriors"
LMAO you still couldn’t get the spelling right even when you copied and pasted from a word processor !!! :)
To make such as statement means that you do neither arts! Further more only a fucking idiot, would castigate against his/her own, cultural heritage; In favour of a system, that was less sophisticated and contained less techniques then European medieval long sword fencing.
Bulllseye2012 7 months ago
@Bulllseye2012 are you not able to understand words when the are not 100% perfectly spell right ? thats sad.... and to your comment i do kendo and for me it comes more close to be a warrior just from the fact that you have to wear a bogu (armor) and other facts as f.eks. the state of mind a kendoka tries to achieve where live or death have no meaning
loknar86 7 months ago
@loknar86
"well i would say only a smart person"
And I’d say that only a idiot would make a comment about arts that they don’t do!
No! I do not believe that you do Kendo.
While misspelling two words in a single sentence, “pussies” and “isn’t” upon a word processor ! :)
Bulllseye2012 7 months ago
@Bulllseye2012 believe what you want for all i care i know what i do in my life you dont
and still its sad how you want perfect grammatic after all the brain don't even need it to understand a sentence or words for that matter and English is not my main language even it it was i have no need for a perfect sentence to understand it only people like you and that is just poor : /
loknar86 7 months ago
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@loknar86
I’ll tell you what then. I’ll post the link to your neck of the woods, for the Historical European Martial Arts (Northern Europe) finder. I suggest you go down to one of these groups with your bamboo, walk in and tell them to their face “fencing is for pussys and kendo ist for real warriors”
I’m sure that they will oblige you. :)
Bulllseye2012 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Take the spaces out
h t t p : / / w w w. communitywalk. com / map / index / 96 4605
Bulllseye2012 7 months ago
@loknar86 I grew up doing Kendo, moved to go to college in 06 and there was no Kendo. I figured that fencing was a pussy sport like you and that it would be an easy A so I took a class. Short story, I am a Ni-dan and I'll be fencing epee this weekend at nationals in Reno, so I have sufficient knowledge of both. If I were to say that one art was superior to the other in pure fighting, then I'd have to side with fencing. Kendo is still my first love, but to say that fencing is inferior is ignorant
lordsprouts 7 months ago 2
@lordsprouts sad that you havend kendo at your college but good that you could do something similer to it
but still i like kendo much more and dont thinkg that will change for a long time
loknar86 7 months ago
@Bulllseye2012 and for the being a idiot for castigate against the own culture and so on, well i would say only a smart person would have a open and wide horizons to choose what he or she likes more
loknar86 7 months ago
@loknar86 But with that statement you play into Bullseye2012's argument: Japan was definetly more isolationalist than the europeans and were unwilling to learn from other nations or cultures. At least in europe they were willing to adopt the scimitar (eventually sabre) from the middle-east and were willing to re-examine swordplay from the point of view of science than thinking tradition was always better. And before disparaging 'fencing is for pussys' you really should try it before criticising.
muresug 7 months ago
@loknar86 I would have to disagree, both arts are fantastic in their own ways. French, German, and Spanish style fencers were fantastic warriors in their era and their countries, just as the Japanese fencers were fantastic warriors in their countries and eras. The samurai were the elite as were the musketeers. Both around in the same time period and both were fantastic at their jobs. It's all a matter of preference. In a life or death duel, it comes down to the fighter in that moment.
LittleHazey 7 months ago
kendo ALL the way!search up"eiga naoki's beautiful tsuki" to see a hit simillair to those in fencing but it looks so much cooler
RaiceaAndrei111 7 months ago
For myself I took Tai Chi for a while: Im quite stocky and as a foil fencer I found that I used to tense up in the shoulder and eventually my arm, making my blade work in competitions heavy and unable to react to stimuli. Tai Chi taught me flowing and plastic arm movements that enabled me to make better disengaged. So all all fighting styles are to be respected if only because they may have something to teach that our own style doesnt have.
(except for lightsaber geeks- not sure about them)
muresug 7 months ago
@muresug
"JKD concept branch"
I don’t think Lees work split I think Inosantoe is using a form of Silat and its too complex at that!
Bulllseye2012 7 months ago
@Bulllseye2012
"I don’t think Lees work split I think Inosantoe is using a form of Silat and its too complex at that!"
There defenitly is a split and the two sides dont like each other (ridiculous I know...) An interesting book on the subject of the diference is the book by Teri Tom - The straight Lead (It even talks aboy the JKD/Fencing connection. I always wondered where Inosanto Silat/kali stuff came in. Certainly dont see it in Bruce's Tao
muresug 7 months ago
@muresug
"We could also learn mindfullness from kendo or Mushin."
Well maybe, or you could learn the zen way of flower arranging? Or take up Yoga.
My main argument goes to the Japanophile, Katanaphile. That some how its better then anybody else! Take a look at some of the minds that got helped the development of Fence such as Voltaire, up against What basically a Folk Art!
Bulllseye2012 7 months ago
@Bulllseye2012 "My main argument goes to the Japanophile, Katanaphile. That some how its better then anybody else!"
I know I know, the curse of the otaku/weeaboo fanatic that thinks katana's are magic. But disparaging the japanese arts is counterproductive. The greater problem if the perception of Fencing in popular culture as an art for 'poncey fairys', rather than the fact that it was an science born out killing efficiency. Blame hollywood for that and those technicolour 50's movies.
muresug 7 months ago
@muresug Katanaphile, thats hilarious. But, year, you're 100 % right.
SpadaccinoLuciano 7 months ago
@muresug
"But disparaging the japanese arts is counterproductive."
I don’t see why? The Japs are as arrogant, ignorant & partisan as they come, while the western Anime fans are just brain washed cretins.
Bulllseye2012 7 months ago
@muresug
Example of the arrogance:
Jap kendo nearly died out after the Satsuma uprising 1877. The head of the Tokyo police “Kawaji Toshiyoshi,” got Kendo into part of the police training. As he wrote that ,“Fencing is practised assiduously in various western nation. If Japan abolishes fencing, then some day we will have to learn it from them."
Bulllseye2012 7 months ago
@Bulllseye2012
And by 1890, the Japanese Army were producing Sabre manuals.
riggald 4 months ago
@muresug
Cont:
Now this is what gets me he then goes on to say:
“Now the Sabre is nowhere as Sharpe as the Japanese sword; so if we abolish Japanese Swordsmanship & learn to use the western Sabre, that would be evident to throwing away gold & picking up broken roofing tiles."
Bulllseye2012 7 months ago
Oops! Read equivalent not evident
Bulllseye2012 7 months ago
there is no "vs" cuz they r two different fucking things.
AngelBiLove 7 months ago 2
@AngelBiLove Thanks you straight and to the point, my friends fences and I have a blackbelt in Tae Kwon Do, Kempo, and Aikido. We duel with opposite swords all the time and our victories go back and forth all the time, It's a stupid arguement. The two are such opposites for totally different cultures using completely different sword. If you put fencers on a battlefield against knights or samurai they'd be killed, because a small fencing sword can't pierce such armor. But one on one, it's differe
codabowsrock 7 months ago