Truth On Waterboarding

[seltian]

Nancy Pelosi makes me so mad!

And Obama isn't making this any better. He closed Guantanamo so that it would look like he was stopping torture, but he's still torturing people. He just moves the prisoners to foreign countries and tortures them there.

[paleocrat]

I talked about Obama's reluctance and hypocrisy on these matters in another video clip from Paleo Radio.

/watch?v=nYIxVRMZmLQ&feature=c­hannel_page

[F4O4U4R4S]

also the victim doesnt "feel" like he is drowning, the victim according to medical journals and doctors is actually drowning. pouring water into the lungs is drowning, its not just a feeling of drowning. all nations should be keeping an eye on the nazi like USA

[F4O4U4R4S]

USA is entirely corrupt, those pictures of the waterboarding that are on this vid arent actually how it happens the persons hands and legs are shackled and the person is placed on a 45 degree angle with the head closest to the floor and a hose is placed in the nose of the victim and is essentially being drowned, the people doing the waterboarding dont stop there either it gets worse

[DeletedDelusion]

I´m very concerned thet it might be only a question of time till some school kids do this to their class mates. If the victim survives he/she would probably have no prove, because this torture leaves no marks.

The same people who supported waterbording will then probably call for harsh sentences for the kids who did it.

[RogerOnTheRight]

Congress, under either party, is almost as feckless as the United Nations.

The argument made against torture is always "IT DOESN'T WORK!!!", or some such.

Yet, waterboarding clearly works. So, I guess it is not torture. Either that or torture works.

So, we at least ought to be honest about the matter.

A greater threat to national security than the issue of torture is the lack of fealty of the CIA. I think it is time to kill CIA and start over.

[paleocrat]

My argument is not so much that it doesn't work as it is that I think torture to be wrong. Utilitarianism is a bad philosophy to hold on matters of how we conduct ourselves in wartime.

This being said, even if it did work (which I do not believe it does), it would not suffice as a reasonable practice.

[RogerOnTheRight]

Hence my point. If torture does not work, then waterboarding is not torture. We need to at least decide what is and isn't torture.

[paleocrat]

I don't believe that torture necessarily has to "work" to be considered torture.

Do you not believe that waterboarding is torture? If not, how would you categorize making someone feel as if they are dying from drowning?

[RogerOnTheRight]

My point is about the argument against torture, that it does not work. Apparently that argument is invalid.

Yes, I think waterboarding is torture. And we ought not torture. I also agree we ought not fight unjust wars, so we are really not far apart on these issues.

But, I do think the Iraq war is justified, given the events of 90 and 91 and since.

[paleocrat]

Then there is very little we disagree on here.

Maybe the issue of 90 and 91 would make for another great thread.

[morsec0de]

I don't think people should word it "torture doesn't work". In addition to just being wrong, the results you get from torture are not necessarily reliable.

Remember, people used torture and got people to admit that they were witches. So it shouldn't be terribly trustworthy.

[RogerOnTheRight]

You sure they weren't witches after all? ;-)

Actually, waterboarding may well work in many circumstances. That one guy who cracked in 35 seconds apparently provided lots of great info.

On the other hand, it was the CIA, and I don't trust them any more than I trust a Clinton.

[morsec0de]

Yes, I'm sure they weren't witches. ;P

[RogerOnTheRight]

You see? They cast a spell on you so you cannot see them for what they are. There is your proof.

/removes tin foil hat

[morsec0de]

Don't annoy me, or you may find yourself enjoying the rest of your days as a newt!

[pairunoyd]

it's kinda hard for me to feel too sorry for the waterboarded. this assumes the right people are being tortured. but then, how do you determine all of this? when do you stop trying to find out what i assume is important information? what do you do with these people? some sort of trial?

[pairunoyd]

dude, please leave Nancy's face off of there. I got a weak stomach.

[Tony63efc]

It's really not for me to comment on this, not being American. I did, however, in early November write to Jack Straw the UK Justice Minister condemning the practice of waterboarding and regretting Mr Mukasey's evasive answers on the subject.

[morsec0de]

According to my conservative family, they say "Hey, we don't need to know everything. As long as we're safe, they don't need to tell us what they're doing."

Needless to say I disagree.

[seltian]

Ask your family if citizens of Nazi Germany should follow that maxim.