class 66 coal train being banked up Lickey Incline

[ERA3733]

Question: what is the grade on this line? How many Percent?

[scruffwood]

@ERA3733 think its 1 in 37 hope that helps

[ERA3733]

@scruffwood

Thanks. That works out to 2.7 Percent, which over here is quite heavy. The heaviest grade over here - without the help of a Rack and Pinion Drive - is 3.5%, and that is on the subway lines on NYC's Manhattan Bridge, and those trains are 100% MU. The normal grade limit on a Class 1 Line without helpers in America in not in excess of 2.0%, and that isn't a heavy coal train. Over here, such a train would be re-routed as much as possible to flatten the grade.

[KWVRMAD]

Actually some banked train the back engine is coupled. This is in an instance where a weaker loco is on the back and needs to be coupled becuase sometimes if not the bigger front engine can pull the train from the banker if it's uncoupled. I have seen this happen where a 37 was banking a 56 in 2003 and the 56 pulled but the 37 didn't. In the end they ended up moving the 37 slowly to the train coupling it up na dthen it worked perfectly!!!

[wollyxl]

@KWVRMAD In the UK on the Lickley incline the banking loco is not cupled the loco infact sits in a spur waiting for this train at the bottum and once it's past it runns up behind and simply pushes once at the summit it will then run back down light engine and wait for thr next. As I understand it loco's in the US that are cuppled to the back are used for banking and also for brake assistance as with trains at well over 2 miles long it can take it's time.

[RailsimProductions]

That's an awful flat at 2:00

[pyronathanpyro]

i think thats one big train 20 coal wagons and one 66 nice

[therealflyingace]

dam theres a hell of a lot of flats on those coal truck tyres

[bmwnasher]

This is one great video ...many thanks for your time and dedication so people like me can watch

[1madaboutguitar]

Great to see these machines declare war on gravity and win!

[1madaboutguitar]

FAKE

[metroliner89]

Shows you hoe fucked up trains are in britain check out some american trains

[EngineerGriff981]

@metroliner89 Its"Shows you HOW" and Britain with a capital B.

If I'm not mistaken the Class 66 is made by EMD who are based in La Grange, Illinois

which I think you will find is in America. Have a nice day.

[Barryat11]

@EngineerGriff981 The Class66's were built in London Ontario Canada, by EMD

[formidable38]

@minotaur878 Wow, you sure gota lot to learn about railways outside of the UK dude.

We may have invented them but the UK mearly fannys about when it comes to real freight let me tel ya. ""tacky american freight"" WTF does that mean??

I dont see a 40'000 HP, 15'000 ton American freight consist tacky, its fuckin impressive!

[minotaur878]

OK they are not tacky. Huge is the right word sorry for stating that. I am growing knowledge now. Canadian national is awesome and I did not know what they looked like but wow they look impressive! Thanks mate

[formidable38]

@minotaur878 Aye, no probs. If you need any pointers, theres some great footage in my favorites. Will certainly give an insite into hellfire EMD loco's.

[EWS60500]

@metroliner89 Your american trains are just oversized, I mean why the hell do you need 3 locomotives for about 5000 tones, over here in the UK, thwy would stick a class 60 on the front and away you go, pulling power to the max, and the same goes for the class 70's. Britain inveted the train and still is the best in thew word for railways.

[Rocketboy1950]

@EWS60500 That's a bit of an outlandish statement considering you do not run 5000 ton trains in the UK. A class 60 might shift 5000 tons on the flat but in reality it's going nowhere serious with it. It might, and I stress might, take 1400 tonnes up a 1 in 50 solo. It's not a lot different to similar HP units we have down under and we do exactly what the yanks do. We stick three of them on the front of heavy trains. As to being the best...you can't even multi mixed classes, get a grip.

[formidable38]

@Rocketboy1950 Well said Rod, unfortunately we have alot of foamers here that think they know every dam thing when it comes to "running a train" just because they sit on stations with a camera when in fact they know little or fuckall!!

[wollyxl]

@Rocketboy1950 Just to let you know I agree it would be rare to see 5000 tonnnes being shifted anyware on out network but tug's are used oftenif not all the time now in Liverpool Docks to fiddlers ferry MGR and once loaded total all up wight is 2400 tonnes witch they then tackle a 1in45 at 10mph the class 66 out of intrest oftern have to but this limmit at 15mph so they don't get stuck.

[formidable38]

@EWS60500 Im a Brit but that comment is pure crap! Yank trains can be anything upto 20'000 tons. There are alot of grades in the US, its comparitivly flat here. On a 1% grade, for every ton of train weight, there is a force of 20 lbs trying to pull it back down hill So for 15'000 ton train, thats 300'000 pounds pulling on that first car before you even move it forward! So, whats it like on a 2% grade! Thats why yank trains need alot of power and thats why the 60 would be useless on anything-

[formidable38]

@EWS60500 - but flat ground with 5k tons. You also have only about 30% addhesion on that class 60, even an american 200 ton EMD SD70ace is only about 40% addhesion on a dry rail on a good day. Thats why you need lots of engines to climb hills, thats why the yanks use lots of engines, ok, your example of 3 on 5000 tons of train, you wana go up hills and you need to do more than 30mph on the flat LOL. By the way, an EMD SD70 has nearly 200'000 pounds of starting tractive effort at 35% addhesion!!

[railsetc]

So a "banker" engine is what we Americans would call a "helper" or "pusher"?

[scruffwood]

@railsetc yes mate all the best

[kabukikitsune]

@scruffwood Are bankers coupled, like they do in the US, or do they just use their own buffers so they can uncouple on the fly?

[scruffwood]

@kabukikitsune I am 99% certain they are not coupled but if i am wrong I am sure I will be corrected,cheers mate

[KitsuneProductions]

@scruffwood i may be wrong, but i would say modern regulation wouldn't allow that sort of practise anymore these days, but don't take me 100% on that.

[hateshiganaikurayami]

@scruffwood your 100% correct mate they reduce power just after the summit and use the turning siding just before the remains of Blackwell station. In the steam era they were also allowed to follow a freight down the lickey without worrying and SPAD incidents, however now as you can see in your video they descend light engine.

Also love the filming location used it many times when i was living in Worcestershire, cant wait to go back there for the summer such a great location.

[scruffwood]

@hateshiganaikurayami Its a great location and I must go back there myself at some point.Thanks for your comment and interest cheers mate

[EWS60500]

@scruffwood They are coupled, well the ones fitted with the equiptment. The drivers swtiches a switch in the cab wich uncluples the locomotive.

[northcms]

@kabukikitsune Hey there, yes they are coupled, however a small number of EWS 66s have had the couplers adapted so that they can be remotely released from the cabin whilst moving. Good vid also, looks like the locos are working hard!

Cheers

[northcms]

@kabukikitsune Hey there, yes they are coupled, however a small number of EWS 66s have had the couplers adapted so that they can be remotely released from the cabin whilst moving. Good vid also, looks like the locos are working hard!

Cheers

[villarule]

lovely stuff

[heresjohny32]

the birds are inchis from death

[unluckykentuckies]

bird eating bird a 26 secs!

[1teaboy]

Nice bit of camera work scruff, what camera and what lens (zoom or magnification) please??

Im down that way in a few weeks and shall look for that foot crossing!!

1T

[scruffwood]

@1teaboy Cheers mate cant remember much about the camera as the one i had when i filmed this is now defunct and it was a few yrs back.I did use a monopod that i do remember.The crossing is Vigo Crossing if that helps you cheers again

[M011iY]

got any coal m8

[justandy333]

Id love to meet the railway engineer who thought it would be a good idea to build on such a steep incline.

Makes for good train videos though. :)

[garynumber01]

What a terrible condition that coal train is in. A multitude of wheel flats and even an air leak about ten wagons back! The empty scrap steel train ain't much healthier! Nice video though. Thanks

[granskare]

'banked' up is a new term for me but nice to see the trains going up:)

[britishbulldog5505]

Must take some power getting that lot up there.

[PickUpDaBeat]

the rear 66 is actually pushing up the incline because you can hear it release the power so the front 66 can take over for the rest of the journey

[porscheland]

To sgtellzo, the banking locos dont couple to the rear of trains. they just buffer up at the bottom,bank to the top and then brake and let the train pull away from them.

[1madaboutguitar]

Do you think the one 66 could have ever made it to the top alone?

[SantaFe19484]

It looks like a knuckle coupler on the back of this train. I thought European trains used cables for coupling instead of kunckles. Can anybody fill me in about this?

[Sgtellzo]

Most freight trains use the 3 link couplings for wagons and locos. Some of the the big coal wagons have the buck eye couplings, I think most fof the 66's have the buck eye and 3 links on them. with the banking locos i think they have automatic release buttons in the cab so the train doesn't need to stop i order to un couple. I maybe wrong with some of that, some else might say i've said somet wrong, but i help that helps you out on your query!

[yelwob]

I believe you're terribly mistaken. I dont know why there is even any hype about this monstrosity of of a vehicle.

[bum291]

The chain&hook is the common in most european countries, but some also use the SA3 coupling or the European version of it. Especially for heavier trains. SA3 is also seen a lot in countries with 1524 or 1520 mm rail gauge.

[mt14l]

wow lots of skidded wheels on that train - must be hammering the crap out of the track!

[smiffy1071]

It's very steep though at 1/37!!

[duxberry1958]

top vid how heavy waz coal train

[jackyboy007111]

very very nice video very clear

[getofmaballs]

0:40 - kamikaze pigeon on the other track lol

[gingerkin]

lol one less to shoot

[EWS60500]

where is bromsgrove then.

oh yeh and great vid

[beeble2003]

About fifteen miles south-west of Birmingham. (Google maps is your friend.)

[HunsletAusterity]

Where about is the Lickey Incline?

[scruffwood]

Its in the Bromsgrove area

[highlanepaul]

I know its already been spotted but the buzzard and rabbit and magpie extras in this clip really are awsome..... 2 of my favourite pastimes in one!!!!! a belated, nice one scruffy lad ....

[Wikkus]

Nice vid! This is one of the few places that show off the real power of the 66. Whenever I see them round here they're barely stressed at all and oh-so-quiet. Even on your vid they're relatively quiet even at full thrash, not like a couple of 37s or a 56 :D

Great vid, 5 stars :D

[EWS60500]

I prefer the 60's, the 60's will storm the Lickey without a banking engine, the 66 are slightly underpowerd compared to the 60's.

[abbymick]

Obviously!!!!!!! Why do people compair a 66 to a 60. They are both designed to do different work. A 59 to a 60,YES!,and the 59 is better!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[grannyjone]

59 is better? Really?

Explain why the Class 59/2 when tested on the Fiddlers MGR's was down to 2mph on bone dry rail. Class 60's have coped no problems since they took over from quadruple class 20's in the early 90's.

Oh and 66s only SLIGHTLY underpowered compared to 60's?? Two of them can't lift what a 60 can.

Both designed to do different work? They are in fact what DBS use as a replacement for the 60 (A VERY poor one at that - makes as much sense as replacing all 92's with 20's).

[IrishRail123]

nice

the loco looks like the irish 201

[chiefstain]

where is this famous line?

[scruffwood]

The Lickey Incline is in the Bromsgrove area and Bromsgrove station is at the foot of the incline.

[chiefstain]

oh right seen a few vids on here of hst thumping up it

good vid mate

[Radomboy1234]

I bet a 60 could pull a coal train up lickey incline with ease

[yash421]

Any loco can pull up incline, having a blown piston at high rpm is not a joke, runnig at full blast does not help the engines either, Back up or DPU is the support unit in case if things go wrong.

[peggey707]

brilliant stuff, well done

[mat12128]

well if your gonna watch 66s this is the one 2 watch.top stuff for railheads n bird,sorry BUZZARD watchers alike lol.cool didnt know we had em(buzzards not 66s!)

[rymer94]

was the banking loco 250? if it was i went in the cab of it when there was a gala on at old oak common, likewise with 50049

[AndreiTupolev]

Acording to my source, 66055-057 are the dedicated Lickey bankers.

[50046ajax]

66055-66059 are fitted with specialist equipment for banking and have all been banking on the lickey in the last few years.

[nazareth978]

I'm very happy that i chanced upon this video. The Gloucester signalling simulation of the SimSig team is one of my favourites. It includes the Lickey incline with the special delayed signal at the begin of the uphill, and the timetable contains a few banker runs too. It was good to see how banking in the "real life" works : )

[trainboy22140]

"the sheds" lol I love these trains they are soo cool !! love the vid really cept me glued to the screen!! *5

[scruffwood]

cheers glad you liked the clip.Must get back down there again and film

[vanhoolpower]

The pusher loco is not coupled at the train.When the train drives over the top of the hill , the engine driver of the pusher loco , stops behind a signal to turn back down.

We have also a same situation at Belgium/Germany : Aachen-West => Montzen . Only some NMBS/SNCB trains has needed a pusher loco to climb the hill to Belgium.

(My english is not very well :( )

[joelang1699]

Are the wagons thru wired to control the loco at the back or is it being worked by another driver

[AndreiTupolev]

There's a driver in both of them, they have a kind of slip coupling, I think, so they can unhook when they get to the top.

[type2thrash]

The Banking loco is uncoupled and pushes the load until the lead loco takes hold of the load then the banking driver shuts off and backs off.

[jammyhartley]

These Class 66 are really powerful engines - what tractive effort are they classed at?

[joelang1699]

Maximum: 409 kN (91,900 lbf) at starting

Continuous: 260 kN (58,500 lbf) at 15.9 mph (25.6 km/h)

[Hyperen]

You have a good zoom on that camera and nice steady camera work - Quality footage mate - 5 stars.

[scruffwood]

Thanks for your positive comment.I did use a monopod when filming this clip.Thanks again and glad you and others liked the clip

[alan990]

Awesome Video !!! I love Class 66 !!! 5*

[ay76]

Great video, I must get down here with my camera's some time.Cheers, Oh 5 stars sir.

[philquine]

Awesome footage!

[gunitsean]

did anyone seen the dead rabbit that the crows are trying to make it their dinner.

poor crows , the 66 ran over their dinner (the dead rabbit)

[turkeyplucker]

I'm being a deadful geek, but it was actually a buzzard trying to pick up the rabbit, watched by 2 magpie's...just so you know! :-)

[bronzeonion]

top n tail it with a 2 deltics it should be powerful enough!

[TheMysticEgg]

Great Video! The 66's sound slightly like hairdriers at full rev??

[TheMysticEgg]

The 66's have the slight sound of a hairdrier??

[hyper4lifedude]

its the cooling radiator fan making that sound

[60037]

Rubbish, proper pair of washing machines on full spin!!

[mat12128]

fair enuf it looks like a silent movie but u cant dis em with all that grunt n clag

[Conqueror09]

Notice the Buzzard in the opposite track 4 foot with the Rabbit and hassling Magpies.

[PimpmyPumpe]

C`est la Vie,my Dear

[woodlandsteve]

Great vid mate Thanks for sharing it

[scruffwood]

cheers your welcome

[NSHorseheadSD70]

Notice the locomotive's have EMD's Radial Truck.

[PrentonPimp]

Top vid that, mate! Just a shame there's not a pair of Tractors instead of the Shove-Shed!

[scruffwood]

cheers pal cant help with the tractors but check my vids for a pair of choppers at the same spot

[Lucdoiron]

Just for information, the Class 66 locomotives are built in Canada. We, at CN, ship them to Halifax, Nova Scotia, where they get loaded onto a ship and brought overseas to Europe. They are called GMD JT42CWR Locomotives in Canada, and Class 66 for all railfans and in UK. In my opinion, those are my favorite export locomotives out there! Very neat pieces of equipment!

[tompw3141]

Do any operate in Canada? I've only ever heard of them used in the UK and Europe? I would be surprised if there is much call for 100mph (160km/hr) frieght locos in North America.

[PrentonPimp]

Class 66's are geared for 75mph maximum permitted speed, and are to be found only in the UK and Europe, as the JC42CWR's are export only, and are built to the UK loading gauge.

[NSSD80MAC7202]

Here in the US we place an emphasis on high-powered engines instead of speed.That's the reason our coal drags are 120 cars or more long with 2-4 engines upfront and 1-2 engines acting as DPU.Going up the grades,those engines would break windows!

[Unknown550]

Proudly Canadian...

[wiganlad1000]

does the banking engine detach? and where?

[scruffwood]

yes mate,presume at the top of the climb

[speedy231278]

How many flat tyres?? I'm surprised that you need two 66s on 2000 tons even up the Lickey, but I guess it's just a precaution.....

[applecounty]

These loco's are American RCdash9.

[yash421]

Dash 9 have 6000 hp. These locos are at max 3300 hp. something like sd 40 or 60 not sure.

[ANDREWAMTRAK]

A dash 9 only has 4400 HP

[Charlzez99]

weeeeehaaaay

[RCdash9]

Lickey grade eh? Do those engines have any Dynamics? Because on American railroads, all the engines have Dyanamic brakes.

[kolinski64]

forget the dynamics, what about the buzzard?

[Charlzez99]

It flew right out the way of that shed.

[retroglide2000]

Read somewhere the grade there is 1 in 37.

[MrPostcode]

Think its 1 in 42. Either way, its pretty steep.

[pacer142086]

1 in 37 and 1/4 ;)

[mststv]

class 66 clag

[ehmorrice2]

y cant u spell being

[scruffwood]

because I cant spell lol.

[kolinski64]

i like the bit with the buzzard chomping "railkill"

[RianTrace84]

Look it`s a garden shed! sorry I mean a 66

[TheMysticEgg]

Great vid! How do u get the clarity and quality of the film?

[Nightm00ds]

Great Video thankyou (5*)

[dutchtrainmanserie22]

Awesome!!!!!!

[jim40135]

Cool, a buzzard!

[DazrahT]

Lol, you're suppose to be watching the train!

Great vid scruffwood, good to see a Lickey Banker move, as I've never seen it done before. Have to get myself done there sometime.