Thank you for your testimony. I am studying the book of Mormon. I want to humble myself before the lord, with real intent, and also receive a testimony. But I know that I must be humble and serious as to enquire of this. For God knows our hearts, and if we our sincere or not. I have lived my life as a luke warm Christian, sometimes even getting completely away from God. I feel I am at a point in my life that I must truly seek him, and with all humbleness I am taking this to the Lord.
So if I believe that that the book of mormon was not true, and having faith with real intent in Jesus Christ and being lead by the Holy Spirit and shown that it is false, then what?
Book of Mormon True? Which one? How do you know? What about the internal contradictions? How about the stuff that never existed? How about the false prophesies? Where is the proof?
hahahaha jesus in the americas? only mormons "know" these things and noone alse! gold plates?? hahahaha! star/planet kolob???? bwahahahaha. are you people serious?? are you going to tell me that the "chupacabra" lives in hill cumorah? and what hill cumorah?? the one in N.Y or the other "real" hill cumorah in south of mexico?? LOL.... how can you people believe all this nonsense? what other bogus stories do you have? black people cant hold the priesthood because the color of skin? .. just wow!
Joseph Smith said God designated his Church the only church on the whole earth The last battle, in 421 AD, wiped out the Nephites. Moroni, last surviving Nephite, buried records in Cumorah, in NY . Hundreds of yrs later, Joseph Smith directed to the spot by Moroni who appeared to him in his bedroom in NY. Smith then "translated" the record & published it in 1830,The Book of Mormon. I'ss a cult...
And to mr big bear or whatever it is, well we also read the bible too. And I hope your not refering that I am polygimist, because that's actually one of the biggest mix-ups! That is the F-lds church, they broke off from the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints a long time ago and we have very different beliefs. And I worship the same Jesus you do. The stories are the same, we read the bible just as much as we read the book of Mormon.
this is a comment for Kalie260....maybe you need to ask Jesus to take off those spiritual blinders and look to the correct Jesus to see what is true or what is fake.
the bible never asks or people who believe the bible ask for a feeling if the bible is true or not. the bible is not based on a physical feeling but a relationship with Jesus. I would rather have that then a fake Jesus. I am not trying to be rude and I hope this does not show rudeness, but do not take life for granted
let me ask you a question mam...if Joe wanted you or your daughters for one of his wives would you let him? I know you look sincere but knowing that Joe doctrines are considered heresy based on the bible do you really think that mormonism is a true relationship with Jesus?
I have been watching a lot of mormon productions and reading a lot of mormon literature, it seems like it has to do more with self, and what self can achieve. everything even the mormon sacrament to me is heresy.
@kalie260 MORMONS WORSHIP SATAN.............BOM IS A SATANIC LIE...........HAHAHAHAHA THERE ARE NO NEPHIS AND LAMEINITE OR PLANET/STAR KOLOB................MORMONS ARE SATANIC,NO MATTER IF THEY SAY THEY ARE NOT..............WAKE UP
A man with a magic rock,placed it in a hat ,stuck his face in the hat to not let any light to enter,and with the help of a scribe,gave us the book of mormon.Is that so hard to believe? Remember many of the drugs we have today,were not invented at that time.And stop asking about the wives,and wher your 14 yr old daughter is.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Joseph Smith was a con man that just got bored, then high, then decided he would start a cult. i mean that guy had a better imagination then dr. Seus,
"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God," (John 10:30-33)
Well nice point, but through out this chapter I come to find He is using symbolism.
I believe theoretically if you asked Jesus, "are you separate from the Father?" he would say, "I and the Father are one". To prove this I go to ch.10 verse 29 and 30 of John. (NIV) "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand." -John 10:29 after this he says in verse 30, "I and the Father are one." -John 10:30
@Zayin1993 He using symbolism in your opinion, probably based on something you were taught. I study the Bible seriously and in depth and I do find it to be symbolism at all. The different between Sectarian Christianity and LDS Christianity is that the sectarian's can't agree on what the Bible means, even among the same religions and make the scriptures fit their doctrine whereas the LDS doctrine follows what the scripture says.
@ArizonaDesertPiper Well if you followed the scripture for exactly what it says, you would find your self in a radical situation because the Bible does use symbolism. It is a poetic work not a scientific technical manual, but that's beside the point.
I got John 10:30 from a website called Biblegateway a very reliable source, for biblical studies. But I'm sure if I looked in my bible (NIV, the most commonly used) or any other Christian bible I would find similar translations. Now if I looked in..
@ArizonaDesertPiper ...The Book of Mormon, I might not find anything like this. Why? Because Mormonism is a cult, it changes words, alters meaning and destroys the original readings. This is why I say Mormons are deceived. Buy a NIV bible, look up the verse from a non-Mormon site and find out what you are not hearing... Please.
@Zayin1993 I totally agree that the Bible is not a scientific manual, it is spiritual in nature and contains parables which are used to teach a lesson, and doctrinal used to convey doctrine and commandments. I accept the latter as fact unless proven to have translational errors. And I use the King James Bible exclusively.
You did not respond to my question?
Also suggest you look up the definition of cult in a dictionary, before making accusations.
@ArizonaDesertPiper Oh I thought I answered your question, what was your question pertaining to? I thought you meant where did you get that scripture.
I was using the connotation of a cult, and cult-like behavior.
@Zayin1993 "Then why would you stand before a MAN, (Joseph Smith) instead of our Lord and Savior when judgment day arrives ?" Where did you get this information.
Goodness, it's sad to see all these people deceived. Please, if a Mormon is reading this, dig, research objectively! Look up videos here on youtube! This is all I ask, take some time to question your doctrine, look for faults and reason.
@Zayin1993 I spent nearly a year researching and investigating The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints before committing to Baptism. My research was in depth and included both LDS sources, non-LDS and even anti-Mormon sources, and I found nothing that proved it to be anything less or more than it claims to be.
@ArizonaDesertPiper Then I'm sure you have seen the famous cartoon. (this is not what I base my disbelief on this is just a source) The guy who made cartoon devoted a good part of his life looking up original manuscripts, discussing with people and researching the Mormon doctrine. I am not saying the leaders of the Church deliberately deceive people I'm saying they are not told the full story.
@ArizonaDesertPiper They do not profess their foundational doctrine. For example, a lot of Mormons do not know that they believe that Lucifer was Jesus' brother. or that they believe black people were sent here as a result of a curse, I forgot what blacks supposedly did. (if you press the issue ill just go look it up).
@Zayin1993 It is Doctrine that Satan and Jesus are if fact both spiritual sons of God the Father thus brothers and a well known Doctrine among all members and many non members who who have even a basic knowledge of the LDS Church. If I am wrong prove it with facts and documentation not rumors and speculation. The doctrine of black is the mark of Cain is also commonly known among the membership, including the black members. Your statements are incorrect.
@ArizonaDesertPiper I am not arguing science, nor do I need prove your wrong by facts and claims. I am simply stating that Mormonism is false.
What I believe, is the Holy Trinity, The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are all one. Jesus IS God. Satan is a fallen angel. The prove I have of this is in The Bible. (Mormons do not believe in every thing The Bible has to say. Only bits and pieces.) The mark of Cain is simply a racist cop-out.
@Zayin1993 Your anwser to my comments is totally non responsive and in accurate. When you make a statement it is up to, when challenged, to back it up with facts. You have failed to do so as of yet, you just continue to make more inaccurate statements. And yes I believe The Church of Jesus Christ to be Christian, and follow God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
@ArizonaDesertPiper I'm sorry if I cannot express what I need to convey in 500 characters.Also I don't see any assertions, in my statement other than given facts backed-up by The Bible, and my opinion, "Mormonism is false".
The Mormon belief is in no way Christian and is BLASPHEMY. It puts God on Satan's level, by calling them brothers. Furthermore, it identifies a false prophet named Joseph Smith, stating you will answer to Smith as if he was God (or a god).
@Zayin1993 Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. I have already explained that, and the fact that I did extensive research and study before committing to Baptism. You need to read more carefully and not tune out or ignore statements you do not want to hear.
@ArizonaDesertPiper Then why would you stand before a MAN, (Joseph Smith) instead of our Lord and Savior when judgment day arrives ?! Is this not blasphemy?
Also, key words in my sentence, "more research", because the apparent seems to not blatantly stand out to you.
(Did you see the other comment I sent before the one which you answered to?)
@Zayin1993 I place no one before God the Father, Jesus The Christ, The Holy Ghost.
I have clearly researched it a lot deeper than you have. It seems clear to me that all of your "research" has been anti-material, produced by people with an agenda, mostly to make money. Many of these people have gotten wealthy attacking the Church.
Don't be blinded by hate speech, if you are really interested in the truth seek out out and it will set you free.
@Zayin1993 If you are interested in continuing our exchange we need to keep on point. We need to discuss one subject at a time, when we make a statement we need to back it up with sources, and we need to keep it civil and no name calling or profanity. Further, no Bible Bashing, it is non-productive, and the Apostles and Prophets of old and modern times have warned us not to do it.. Contention is Satan's way not Gods.
@ArizonaDesertPiper "We need to discuss one subject at a time, when we make a statement we need to back it up with sources" Agreed.
"and we need to keep it civil and no name calling or profanity. Further, no Bible Bashing" I'm truly sorry, I did become insensitive, and uncivil, but I have not called any names, or used profanity. And certainly not slandered the Bible in any way.
So, lets start with a common argument, Jesus as Satan's brother. I believe Jesus IS God, Lucifer, WAS an angel. CONT.
@Zayin1993 I am sorry that you misunderstood my meaning, I did not mean to infer that you did anything. I was merely laying out the ground rules, listing things that I will not tolerate. Bible Bashing means to argue over doctrine and the meanings of Bible verses. We are clearly warned not to do that in scripture. That was the way of the Pharisees
@ArizonaDesertPiper There is no possible way that Jesus was Satan's bro. I would even call this blasphemy, to put God on level with Satan. I will back this up with "Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father." -John 14:9
This of course is Jesus. This partially proves The Holy Trinity. (Father and Son are one)
@Zayin1993 When I study John 14:9 in total context of entire chapter I get a totally different meaning. Studying the entire context of the Chapter it is my clear understanding and belief that God the Father and God the Son are 2 clear and separate beings who make up the 1st 2 parts of the Godhead.; i.e.in verse 20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." Does this mean that we are also God the Father?
This is why I left the mormon church and am now agnostic. Paraphrasing a bit:
"If you should ask with true intent, he will manifest the truth of it unto you"
If I were to ask you how you would know the answer when you got it, you'd say you felt it in your heart.
Nearly every religion on earth says the same exact thing. When they get the 'yes it's true' answer from god, everybody says "I felt god talk to me in my heart and soul". If every religion feels the same thing, how can any be the ONE.
@aclays "If every religion feels the same thing, how can any be the ONE."
Just as there are wrong answers and there are right answers on a test. Your job is to search for the correct one. (I believe Christianity is the only correct answer) Also, by Christianity I mean believers of CHRIST. Not Joseph Smith or any other.
I'm sorry you started out in a Mormon church, they have so many secrets, and faults in there founders, and their doctrine in general.
I swear to God if tomorrow I go out and tell people I'm the prophet of God there will still be some idiots like her who would buy that,it just shows how stupid and naive the human being can be.
Now all that is required of faith, is that we believe that he is God.
Now if Jesus Christ never lived, the Bible would crumble, If He was never risen, everything that the bible stands for, would be all lies.
Now If God never came to the Americas, the book of Mormon would never stand. Now if the stories in the book of Mormon never occurred, the book of Mormon would be full of lies. agree?
But there is a problem. The book of Mormon is not historical. Therefore.. what is the conclusion?
I know this book is true, it testifies of Jesus Christ. It is for the purpose of testifying that Jesus is the Christ the son of the living God and that no other man nor name can can salvation come unto the children of men, only in and through the savior Jesus Christ. Please don't judge this book without sincerely seeking God and feeling the truth of it through the holy spirit of God for he will manifest it to you if you are sincere and with faith unwavering seek to truly know and want to know.
There is a guy in England claiming a book of Jeranecks. It's the same as the BofM, but for "Those Guys in England". It would be nice to have a scintilla of evidence for the location of any shields, swords, etc around Cumorah... or someone confirming the translation of the Abraham Papyrus
If you KNOW that the book is true, then I'm a little confused...
How is it that the BOM is true, yet speaks of horses in the new world in 6th century BC when full-sized horses were introduced to the Western Hemisphere by Spanish conquistadors in the sixteenth century A.D?
You seem sincere but I'm guessing that you've been taught and have heard what you've just said since birth....right? You are "parroting" what you've learned to say in countless sacrament meetings...
TO all Mormons, please read Galatians 1:8. Paul speaks of not listening to anyone who preaches any other gospel than what they are preaching . Even if and angel from heaven preaches any other gospel than what they have been proclaiming. This sounds to me like the angel Moroni.
The gospel of Mormonism was not the gospel preached by the apostle Paul, it was altered by Joseph Smith and thus is not to be trusted! Satan is a master counterfeiter and just loves to lead people astray. Dear Mormons, don't trust what you are being told, find out for yourself what the church really believes, your eternal destiny may depend on it!!!
"When I was 11 years old, my family had to leave East Germany and begin a new life in West Germany overnight. Until my father could get back into his original profession as a government employee, my parents operated a small laundry business in our little town. I became the laundry delivery boy
"I eventually learned that to become a pilot, I needed to speak English. Suddenly, the resisting condition of my mouth changed. I was able to learn the language. Why? Because of a strong motive!
"Our motives and thoughts ultimately influence our actions. Jesus repeatedly emphasized the power of good thoughts and proper motives: 'Look unto me in every thought; doubt not, fear not.'" (Doctine and Covenants 6:36)
"I agonized through those school years, helped and encouraged by kind and understanding English teachers, but I just couldn't do it. It wasn't my thing!
"At this time, my dream in life was to become a pilot. Almost daily I rode my bicycle to the airport. I could picture myself in the cockpit of an airliner or even in a military jet fighter. This was definitely my thing!
I know that the church of latter day saints is a complete and total fraud! What makes me say this? Well, The complete lack of any evidence for the existence of jews in early America, the lack of any historical evidence for any of the stories related in the book of mormon, and the mountain of evidence from many scientic fields which contradict every word that the mormon church teaches. What you believe young lady is not important, what is important is the evidence and the facts, show me yours?
@Satsuma65---curious...When did Jesus destroy the book of mormon people and why? see 3rd Nephi chap 9, is this the Jesus we see in the gospels? I dont thnk so. Jesus came to save sinners...see 1 Tim. 1:15, ST. John 3:16-17, Luke 9:56 St. Jn 12:46-47 respectfully.
I can see your a nice young lady. Unfortunately being nice does not protect you from deception. Look at the Book of Abraham facsimiles. Here we see actual proof Joseph was making it up. Joseph lied. But do not lose heart, the real Jesus of the Bible still loves you even though you believe Satan is his spirit brother. Turn away from Joseph and his teachings, and rely on the Bible and Christ. Then you will discover real truth, and real faith.
no one can translate egyptian correctly as it ultimately comes down to intuition. the egyptian language is not based on constant symbols as english is, but rather the symbols used can change from person to person, and one symbol could mean completely different things when used in different contexts. I have taken classes with non-mormon linguists who say that the book of abraham might very well be a correct translation.
@bellarmine246. I have to strongly disagree with you. There are aspects to translating Egyptian that are well known. We KNOW the names of the Egyptians gods found in the facsimilies used in the Book of Abraham. Joseph Smith did not get the name of a single one of them correct. Joseph was wrong 100% of the time. Your answer is a reflex deflection. No Egyptologist has ever given Smith a single ray of hope (except for the highly biased LDS ones.)
I would recommend you look into Hugh Nibley. He was arguably te best in his field (ancient history, linguistics, and theology). He has written some very in depth analysese on the subject. This is from anevangelical comittee; "The first [conclusion] is that there are, contrary to popular evangelical perceptions, legitimate Mormon scholars. We use the term scholar in its formal sense of intellectual, erudite; skilled in intellectual investigation; trained in ancient languages."
Nibley himself was not an Egpytologist. Even with all the efforts Nibley put into the Book of Abraham, he NEVER found the name of a single Egyptian god that Smith correctly translated. NEVER. Joseph Smith was always wrong when it came to the names of common Egyptian gods. You can refer me to all the sources you can come up with, but nothing written by Joseph Smith changes the fact he was wrong.
Huge Nibblers daughter says he used to sexually abuse her. do a google search the church is now nervous of promoting him as their defender. He is being pushed to the back now.Lyman Bushman seems to be the man the church relies on. He in a short introduction to mormonism admits the book of abraham does not bare any resemblance to the egyptian parchments. He does not admit Joe Smith was a fraud but he might as well. Sorry to burst your bubble but Smith 32 wives mostly age 16 and 14 paedophile.
The entire Nibley family has denied that there was any abus, and any that knew him knows that his Daughter is lyin because she has an attention issue and wanted publicity. He book doesn't even agree. THe church is not nervous to promote him, but he isnt the only one, and their foremost scholar (in my humble opinion); Daniel Peterson, support the prophet's testimony of th Book of Abraham from a very scholarly and academic point of vew.
2 Nephi 5 :21 "And he caused the cursig to come upon them yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore as they were white and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
23 "And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even ...same cursing"
Mormonism is a blessing for those of us who are agnostic or atheist. It is so obviously, ridiculously and blatantly false, that it provides a fabulous case study for how crazy superstitions and beliefs become cults and finally morph into "respectable" religions .... Now we can turn our gaze to the older, still silly bronze age beliefs of the Abrahamic religions ... seriously people, we are communicating via the Internet ... it is 2009 and we don't need these crazy delusions to be good people.
I was just like you until I read Rough Stone Rolling by Bushman and In sacred loneliness by Todd Compton. I then found out Joseph Smith married over 30 women some as young as 14 and some already married. Poor Orson Hyde was sent on a mission but while gone Joseph married Marinda Hyde telling her to stay married to Orson as well. Orson was mad but clamed down when Joe Smith gave him 3 wives as compensation. I suggest you read compton's book Smith was not the wonderful man we thought he was.
@Hyrumfyrum I suggest that you not believe everything that you read. Joseph Smith married one woman and one woman only. Her name was Emma. For your info, Joseph Smith didn't start Polygamy. Brigham Young did and claimed that it came from Joseph, long after Joseph died.
Jospeh propsed to William law's wife while he was on a church business trip. Smith was marrying other mens wives secertly such as apsotle Orson Hyde's wife. Mrs law said no, William published the expositer, Smith burnt the printing press got arrested then shot three people killing two before he was shot. Polygamy led to his death. Fanny Alger age 15 was his second wife, emma found them having sex in the barn. Emma was very angry.
What is scary is that he used older siblings to pressure the young girls, he also told them there families would be damened from the highest level in the CK if they did not marry him. Brigham Younh got affidavits from most of Smith's 32 known wives to say he had sex with them. You can google this or llook on wikipedia or the church's genealogy site. Its all there he was an evil man and a false prophet.
are you delusional? Mr Smith as a con man- do your research. subjective assertions doesn't make it TRUE, because I can do the same with the quran and get the same feeling and testimony.... let us reason with the scriptures
Sad fact is..If Mormons would come out and admit they are not Christian, most "anti" mormons would leave them alone. They claim to be Christ followers, but they don't follow the christ as taught and revealed in the Holy Bible. Then attack Christians who defend the true faith as commanded in Jude verse 3.
You're right! It has been about 50 to 60years Mormons have tried to gain public recognition that they are Christian. Just another tatic to gain public approval and run away from the weirdness that drove them out of Illinois and Missouri.
Mormons will never be Christian until they drop the blasphemous, evil doctrines of Joseph and Sidney Rigdon.
Not one coin has been found from these lamanites and Nephites. they came from the Jews and had coins and money. Not one building settlement or artefact has been found and yet we have loads of mayan and Inca artefacts. large chunks of the bible have been stuck in the 3rd nephi chapter it is a poorly contrived con trick. the new shopping mall paid for by tithing looks like the great and spacious building prophesy being fulfilled though,
Don't think that critics who are not looking for evidences for the book of Mormon are going to find any; especially if they continue the myth that there's "no evidences." But what if there is!? Would you be willing to at least see & acknowledge the evidence?
You Tube: Restored Apologetics, playlists:
Rebuttal to 'The Bible Vs. The Book Of Mormon'
Book of Mormon Evidences That Are NOT Suppose to Exist!
Christ As Cosmic Cruiser - Christ Visits Other Nations
restoredapologeticsThere are none smith was a fraud and you know it. When he wrote it he was against the masons hence the bits about secret combinations. he then became a mason and was founder of the nauvoo lodge. he was a conman liar and violater of women you should read in sacred loneliness by Todd Compton a mormon - you have a lot to learn about your church
If a population as large as the Book of Mormon describes had actually existed as recently as it claims, there would most certainly be a genetic presence in current populations, as well as linguistic and archaeological evidence. However there is none.
See this is what Mormons do..they talk all about their book of Mormon and Joseph Smith..putting Jesus and the Holy Bible on the backburner..its a covered up false teaching that is absolutely 100% wrong.
they use another book well scriptures cause christ didint come for everyone like they trying to teach heres proff isa 28:9 1john 3:3 lev 26:46 psa 147:19-20 romans 3:9 matthew 1:21 matthew 2:5 matthew 10:5-6 matthew 15:24 .... comes from blood line his people cause not everyone on earth was born from the people he choose which isnt everyone and if they try to use jogn3:15 then they also have to read john 17:9 isa 45:17 cause they forgot this lol oh yeah
the ten commandments thou shalt not have no other gods before me thou shalt not make any graven images thou shalt not use the lord name in vain remember to keep the sabbath day holy honor thou father and thou mother thou shalt not kill thou shalt not committ adultery thou shalt not steal thou shalt not bare false witness thou shalt not covet
I belive in the Book of Mormon too! God is the God of the whole world! He didn't just make himself known to the people who wrote the books in the Bible but to all his children on the earth! It is very ignorant for anyone to say that they do not believe something unless they have actually read it :) I love Jesus Christ and I know he is our Savior! God loves us and is there to listen to us when we ask him for help and to bless us :)
hey you mormons worship a different Jesus Christ,Don't cry we know the truth
lds mormon false prophet gordon b. hinckley said he worship a different Jesus Christ
no I don't believe in the traditional Christ,the traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak,for the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this dispensation of the fullness of times,Gordon B, Hinckley desert news,church news section,salt lake city utah,week ending june 20,1998,page 7
Jesus would say too you, Ye with a little faith, ye can not receive an answer till you have faith. Repent! God does Live and so does his Son Jesus. Satin causes anger. I never need to debate, I have my answers from God for he spoke to me and what a shame you will never believe that tell you have faith first. Wake Up and Love one another before it is to late. God Bless
Here is a wondeful woman sharing her Testimony and here comes many sinners arguing with each other who is correct and who is not. Humble your self and ask God.
Hey Rommelator, read over the last 3 pages of comments between therealthing and I and answer my questions. I've yet to find a mormon who can answer them.
liar...you are just spouting off old objections that have been answered time and time again...you just want us to waste our time, yet...you have NOT answered my questions..liar.
YOu are just lame and pathetic...rommelater is just going to waste his time with you...you are not worth the time...your kind have been around since Cain...you will always fight against the Lord...and lose.
Hey imtherealthing i asked you earlier for a link to your Christian deification article. I am interested in seeing your point. Please provide a link i have looked and can not locate it.
"The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology and deification"
just like that above...it should be your first hit and in a PDF format and on page 147 if I recall...it's there...if you can't find this..then get the book itself..remember..the internet should NEVER be a substitute for REAL research and ALWAYS go to primary sources...even those works which are translated from original languages are not unless you know the languages, but this will suffice.
ya i have looked but i can not find it still, thats why i asked for a link, well i am not going to go buy the book, if you ever get me a link i would be interested.
I had no problems finding it...but I also sent you the link via PM and if that does not work copy and paste the following into a google search and see page 147:
"The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology and Deification"
Yes..please message this little boy for a laugh...lol
He can't even answer my questions...but yes, please I invite you to message him..he is harmless...as he doesn't know anything about the LDS church except what you can already get off the internet...lol
can you post a link to find the statement from the book about deification, i have looked online and can not find one I am interested in seeing your point of argument.
YOU have NOT looked everywhere..I know as anyone who knows anything about LDS apologetics...you are a liar..plain and simple..nice try..anti-mormon posing as a non-believer...the extent you lying christians go to..never ceases to amaze me..but your comments always give you away...try harder...like I said...not only are you a liar, but lazy and deceptive.
Not affiliated with christianity huh?...rrriiiggghhtttt
You lying false christians..make me laugh...you are ALWAYS exposed by your words...lol..nice try..can't answer my objections so you go into damage control..and make up all this and run...keep running anti-mormon...run..but you can't hide from the TRUTH...the TRUTH CANNOT be confounded..TRUTH is eternal...the LORd will always expose your kind and you kind will feel HIS judgment...for your lies.
Nice try...yes..run away from answering my question and yes..let the SPIRIT bare witness to Christ's sheep who hear his voice...to those who are not sincere seekers..they will believe whatever you say...because your father is the father of all lies...satan.
Okay, so again, you won't answer my questions. That's all I need to know.
Another Mormon who claims to have answers but gives none. It doesn't take an expert or someone who is not a "kid" to repeat over and over, in many different ways, that they have no answers.
Answer the questions or just stop talking, you can your self made conclusion on deification in your response,
Yes kid..run..run away from thinking...I know it is much easier to cut and paste those objections then to actaully thinnk your way through a debate...run kid run.
All those answers are all over the internet...don't be so lame..this is no real debate to sit here and vomit up answers that have been already provided all over the internet to those "old" objections...come on kid..try harder...
Use your mind...you kids today..are too lazy...go look them up yourself..answer my non-pre-fabricated objection..use your mind if you have one and think..pretty hard.for you isn't it?..but try...
"All those answers are all over the internet...don't be so lame..this is no real debate to sit here and vomit up answers that have been already provided all over the internet to those "old" objections...come on kid..try harder..."
Well I haven't found them. GIve them to me if they are truly everywhere. You can even start with a paraphrase and I will ask you to give an extended explanation on specific points later.
YOu LAZY simpleton...you are not only lazy but a liar...go to the MANY webistes that give these answers...so easy to find those anti-mormon objections..but you won't even try to find the answers...forget it..use the same energy you used to cut and paste those objections...and do it yourself...I know and MANY do know they are there..so nice try...liar.
First off kid..it is "Rebutt"..not "rebuttal"...lol
And next, you are not calling the shots here...so..like I said..it takes no expert to cut and paste objections...so answer my question christian or not..the refernece clearly shows early Christians believed in many gods or that they would become gods themselves.
Okay, I just read it. I know that you want to justify your beliefs by giving yourself some sort of "unorthodox" but oh so true in your mind explanation on the nature of God and his image. This is a complete bullshit argument because the Mormon prophets have openly stated what it literally means to become like God.
Now, answer my questions. Seriously, you've dodged it quite a few times now. Answer them, you claim to know all of the answers but you haven't answered anything!
straight and simple, i'm here to prove that the LDS church is false and practices many blasphemys. i have done so by posting that info with sources. defend your church.
YOu have PROVEN NOTHING but that you are full of hot air..anyone can cut and paste anti-mormon objections..the real test is deabting...let's discuss the GODHEAD...please read what I told you to..it is non-LDS
"unless you have some answers for me or some kind of explanation as to my previous posts, then i have nothing to say to you"
LOL..nice cop out when confronted with someone who knows more than you expected to know...come on kid..stop pretending to be an expert on anthing LDS..you are making my sides hurt...seriously...lol
COME ON...show me you really know anything...read what I gave you and let's discuss what you read by your own "biblical scholars"..then we can discuss the GODHEAD from there since it is a related topic....that is the best place to start...then we will move on...if you don't understand who GOD is then you know NOTHING...so let's get this debate going.
Let's start with ONe topic and go from there. I want you to tell me after you read "The Westminster Dictionary of Chrsitian Theology" on the topic of Defication found on page 147 bottom right...do what you and your kind are good at...copy and paste the book title here I gave and the word "deification"...and it should be your first hit...read it and then let's discuss your reading of this by your own scholars..ok kid?
All those commetns below have been answered time and time again by our faith..anyone can find those answers easily...so why bother posting old objections unless 1) That is your limit of knowledge (one or two anti-mormon sources you cut and paste from). 2) You fear actually dialouging because you don't have the intellectual abiblity because you are dependant upon set objections so you lack the skill to debate..which is quite obvious by your comments. 3) You know down deep you are wrong
we christians are right,cause the holy bible truth and word is right,cause we follow and obey the biblical Jesus Christ and his word,let God be true and every man a liar romans 3:4
YOu do NOT believe in the "biblical Jesus Christ"...your god is a false god...a god made up by philosophers...come on..your god is so obviuously flase how can any rational being believe in those crazy creeds?...three-in-one craziness..just like your Sola Scriptura...GOD NEVER said he would stop gving us revelation...the bible the way your kind use it was never meant to be used that way...it was a collection of sayings and revelation from prophets and apostles..just like we LDS do today.
Your comments here demonstrate a weak understanding of LDS theology...Ed Deckers "God makers" seems to be your limit of exposure to anything LDS...lol..even other anti-mormons laugh at him...you are going to have to do better than that.
As for the many gods...I recommend you read a book by your own "biblical scholars" called "The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology" there is a PDF version on-line...look up "Deification"...start there and lets discuss what they say about it..
dude, stop trying to justify your religious beliefs by giving a bunch of personal references...
bottom line:
LDS Doctrine states the following:
-Blacks have darker complexion due to a curse (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses)
-god the father had a god, who had a god, and so forth, you're polytheists, you directly worship 2 different entities (the son and the father) (Best citation for this is Joseph Smitih's King Follett Discourse)
- belief that god the father had physical sex with ...
Look another person AVOIDING my question posed to them...and look another anti-mormon who just cuts and pastes objections that have been answered time and time again...lol..like I said...can someone please find just ONE intelligent anti-mormon out there for me to debate with...hey kid...try answering my question...did you read the source I pointed you to?..there is a PDF version on line..since you and your kind are so good at "armchair academics"...you are not original..sigh..same old same old
-belief that god the father had physical sex with the virgin Mary. (from Apostle Bruce McConkie in The Mormon Doctrine)
- JOSEPH SMITHS PAPYRUS. Without a doubt one of the biggest pieces of hard evidence that the church is false. Joseph Smith was unable to correctly finish off the papyrus or correctly translate the text.
- Archaeological evidence proves that native americans aren't descendants of the Israelites. continued...
- Joseph Smith broke many of the rules of his own church after becoming a "prophet". He even attempted to become a Methodist in 1928, after receiving his vision from his god
- Joseph Smith was a mason, during his martyrdom in which he he got intoxicated and killed 2 men, "oh Lord, my God" is a masonic distress signal, all of this on the account of the 3rd prophet of the church John Taylor
Want more? your church is obviously completely phony. all of this is accepted by the church
Listen "kid"...you post nothing new here that isn't already been asked and answered...go get yourself a real education so that you can learn to distinguish between citing "primary sources" versus secondary and latter sources...if you knew how to do real reserach...you would know the differance..instead...all you do is re-gurgitate old objections with no real value....did you read from the source I gave you on "deification"?
if its nothing new t hen answer all of it. i've yet to meet a mormon who can answer such "overused and redundant" questions.
stop acting like your religion is supported by any sort of objective reasoning or credible arguments for that matter.
gimme some answers, point by point. or else you're a fraud just like every other mormon i've met. you said the same thing over and over, you're just attacking me! support your damn religion if it's so miraculous and wonderful.
Nice try kid...but I know your kinds tricks..you try to innudate us with all sorts of easily cut and pasted objections...but this is not going to work here...so answer "my" objection I posed first...then we will tackle ONE by ONE your pathetic attempts of what you think is LDS theology
You are still avoiding my questions...why do you run from defending your false god?
All you are doing here is nothing but spewing off old anti-mormon out of context objections...poor kid..lol..well..why are you running?...what do you have to be a shamed of if you have the truth?..unless it is not the TRUTH...if you truly believed you had the TRUTH...you would stop avoiding the answer and stop desperately trying to cover it up by cutting and pasting old anti-mormon objections here...lol
I have already answered you,now weigh it,joseph smith was a false prophet who has lifted his eyes up in hell with hinckley,and unless monson repent and turn from his wicked ways,he is going to lift up his eyes up in hell also.
If God is the GOD of FALSE gods..then not only do you admit that there exists "other" gods which you denied but you also make GOD a GOD of FALSE gods...which we know he can't be. So the only conclusive answer is that GOD is the GOD of TRUE gods...as the early Christians taught and believed...see what your own "biblical scholars" say about this in the book: The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology" under the heading "Deification"..foolish little boy...it says this quite clearly...
Show me where this means they are one in "substance" or "essence"..please provide the EXACT reference in CONTEXT here to this meaning the are the same person and not ONE in purpose.
In that very chapter other than it demonstrating that there "are" other gods...Jesus also makes the DINSTINCTION between himself and the Father....do you even READ the scriptures...all your ideas of the GODHEAD are coloured with FALSE CREEDAL statements made by men.
you mormons will never be a god,cause we are only humans,there is only one true and living God of Israel isaiah 43:10,you mormons take this scripture out of context in john,that is why satan,the devil got kicked out of heaven,cause he wanted to become god,and take the place of the great God of Israel,you mormons are pharisees,who is on the way to hell, with the devil and all of his fallen angels rev 21:8 14:11,matt 25:41
more proof mormonism is the anti-christ cult system
mormonism teaches another gospel and another jesus who mormons teach was a polygamist,mormonism also teaches that their other doctrines such as the bom and pearl of great price and d&c are other testaments of Jesus Christ
the holy bible says anyone who goes beyond Christ teaching,does not have God,but who ever continues to follow the teaching of Christ,has both the father and the son 2 john :9
if anyone wants undeniable proof that the LDS religion is false just message me and I'll be glad to correspond with you outside of youtube. my comments always get deleted here
Sure your comments get deleted...is that why I can see your comments?...you anti-mormon FALSE christians make me laugh...you just want to cut and paste anti-mormon objections and then e-mail them to people and PRETEND to be some sort of expert on anything LDS...LOL...if you have anything to say...say it here....why don't you try REPLYING to "my" objections to your FALSE trinitarian god I just made here..let's see how good you are at defending your false 3-headed schizo god
the reason,you and other lds cult members delete our answers,is because they are the truth according to holy bible scriptures,and you lds know this,that our comments expose mormonsim for the anti-christ cult system it is,
That's funny...in most cases it is you lying FALSE christians who delete our comments...if we do any such thing it is because you either spam old anti-mormon objections over and over again hoping to inundate LDS videos with cut and pasted objections or your comments are full of filthy expletives as is common among your kind...you on the other hand delete any comments defending the Lord's church or you never answer the objections posed to you just as you do so now...liar.
The only men who become gods or even the sons of God,
are those who enter into polygamy,brigham young,
journal of discourses 11:269
I discovered that some of the eastern papers represent me as a great blasphemer,cause I said in my lecture on marriage at our last conference,that Jesus
Christ was married at cana of galilee,that mary,
martha,and others were his wives,and that he begat
there is no mention of a son of zedekiah named mulek in the bible,and it says that his sons were slain,but the bom contradicts and say that his son mulek lived
It is true that the blood of the son of God was shed for sins,through the fall and those committed by men,yet men can commit sins which it can never remit,they must be atoned for by the blood of the man,brigham young journal of discourses vol 4 page 51
these are the doctrines of demons that lds false prophets taught
Thank you for your testimony. I am studying the book of Mormon. I want to humble myself before the lord, with real intent, and also receive a testimony. But I know that I must be humble and serious as to enquire of this. For God knows our hearts, and if we our sincere or not. I have lived my life as a luke warm Christian, sometimes even getting completely away from God. I feel I am at a point in my life that I must truly seek him, and with all humbleness I am taking this to the Lord.
jgouldsmith 3 months ago
So if I believe that that the book of mormon was not true, and having faith with real intent in Jesus Christ and being lead by the Holy Spirit and shown that it is false, then what?
minpinlover26 11 months ago
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Book of Mormon True? Which one? How do you know? What about the internal contradictions? How about the stuff that never existed? How about the false prophesies? Where is the proof?
rickgigliotti 11 months ago
What a wonderful testimony. Thank you so much.
celicasupraify 11 months ago
hahahaha jesus in the americas? only mormons "know" these things and noone alse! gold plates?? hahahaha! star/planet kolob???? bwahahahaha. are you people serious?? are you going to tell me that the "chupacabra" lives in hill cumorah? and what hill cumorah?? the one in N.Y or the other "real" hill cumorah in south of mexico?? LOL.... how can you people believe all this nonsense? what other bogus stories do you have? black people cant hold the priesthood because the color of skin? .. just wow!
MALDITTOROKKERO 11 months ago
Joseph Smith said God designated his Church the only church on the whole earth The last battle, in 421 AD, wiped out the Nephites. Moroni, last surviving Nephite, buried records in Cumorah, in NY . Hundreds of yrs later, Joseph Smith directed to the spot by Moroni who appeared to him in his bedroom in NY. Smith then "translated" the record & published it in 1830,The Book of Mormon. I'ss a cult...
onstageagain 1 year ago
And to mr big bear or whatever it is, well we also read the bible too. And I hope your not refering that I am polygimist, because that's actually one of the biggest mix-ups! That is the F-lds church, they broke off from the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints a long time ago and we have very different beliefs. And I worship the same Jesus you do. The stories are the same, we read the bible just as much as we read the book of Mormon.
kalie260 1 year ago
Okay :) I'm pretty sure I pray to god every night not to the devil. But I'm glad your concerned :)
kalie260 1 year ago
this is a comment for Kalie260....maybe you need to ask Jesus to take off those spiritual blinders and look to the correct Jesus to see what is true or what is fake.
the bible never asks or people who believe the bible ask for a feeling if the bible is true or not. the bible is not based on a physical feeling but a relationship with Jesus. I would rather have that then a fake Jesus. I am not trying to be rude and I hope this does not show rudeness, but do not take life for granted
MrBigbear6718 1 year ago
let me ask you a question mam...if Joe wanted you or your daughters for one of his wives would you let him? I know you look sincere but knowing that Joe doctrines are considered heresy based on the bible do you really think that mormonism is a true relationship with Jesus?
I have been watching a lot of mormon productions and reading a lot of mormon literature, it seems like it has to do more with self, and what self can achieve. everything even the mormon sacrament to me is heresy.
MrBigbear6718 1 year ago
Thank you for bearing your testimony of this book....if only people would humble themselves and read it they would know it is true as well.
kalie260 1 year ago
@kalie260 MORMONS WORSHIP SATAN.............BOM IS A SATANIC LIE...........HAHAHAHAHA THERE ARE NO NEPHIS AND LAMEINITE OR PLANET/STAR KOLOB................MORMONS ARE SATANIC,NO MATTER IF THEY SAY THEY ARE NOT..............WAKE UP
eitoobmiz 1 year ago
A man with a magic rock,placed it in a hat ,stuck his face in the hat to not let any light to enter,and with the help of a scribe,gave us the book of mormon.Is that so hard to believe? Remember many of the drugs we have today,were not invented at that time.And stop asking about the wives,and wher your 14 yr old daughter is.
gdvibes1 1 year ago
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Joseph Smith was a con man that just got bored, then high, then decided he would start a cult. i mean that guy had a better imagination then dr. Seus,
silljos1 1 year ago
"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God," (John 10:30-33)
Why do you think he was crucified?
Zayin1993 1 year ago
Well nice point, but through out this chapter I come to find He is using symbolism.
I believe theoretically if you asked Jesus, "are you separate from the Father?" he would say, "I and the Father are one". To prove this I go to ch.10 verse 29 and 30 of John. (NIV) "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand." -John 10:29 after this he says in verse 30, "I and the Father are one." -John 10:30
Zayin1993 1 year ago
@Zayin1993 He using symbolism in your opinion, probably based on something you were taught. I study the Bible seriously and in depth and I do find it to be symbolism at all. The different between Sectarian Christianity and LDS Christianity is that the sectarian's can't agree on what the Bible means, even among the same religions and make the scriptures fit their doctrine whereas the LDS doctrine follows what the scripture says.
ArizonaDesertPiper 1 year ago
@ArizonaDesertPiper Well if you followed the scripture for exactly what it says, you would find your self in a radical situation because the Bible does use symbolism. It is a poetic work not a scientific technical manual, but that's beside the point.
I got John 10:30 from a website called Biblegateway a very reliable source, for biblical studies. But I'm sure if I looked in my bible (NIV, the most commonly used) or any other Christian bible I would find similar translations. Now if I looked in..
Zayin1993 1 year ago
@ArizonaDesertPiper ...The Book of Mormon, I might not find anything like this. Why? Because Mormonism is a cult, it changes words, alters meaning and destroys the original readings. This is why I say Mormons are deceived. Buy a NIV bible, look up the verse from a non-Mormon site and find out what you are not hearing... Please.
Zayin1993 1 year ago
@Zayin1993 I totally agree that the Bible is not a scientific manual, it is spiritual in nature and contains parables which are used to teach a lesson, and doctrinal used to convey doctrine and commandments. I accept the latter as fact unless proven to have translational errors. And I use the King James Bible exclusively.
You did not respond to my question?
Also suggest you look up the definition of cult in a dictionary, before making accusations.
ArizonaDesertPiper 1 year ago
@ArizonaDesertPiper Oh I thought I answered your question, what was your question pertaining to? I thought you meant where did you get that scripture.
I was using the connotation of a cult, and cult-like behavior.
Zayin1993 1 year ago
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@Zayin1993 "Then why would you stand before a MAN, (Joseph Smith) instead of our Lord and Savior when judgment day arrives ?" Where did you get this information.
ArizonaDesertPiper 1 year ago
Goodness, it's sad to see all these people deceived. Please, if a Mormon is reading this, dig, research objectively! Look up videos here on youtube! This is all I ask, take some time to question your doctrine, look for faults and reason.
Zayin1993 1 year ago
@Zayin1993 I spent nearly a year researching and investigating The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints before committing to Baptism. My research was in depth and included both LDS sources, non-LDS and even anti-Mormon sources, and I found nothing that proved it to be anything less or more than it claims to be.
ArizonaDesertPiper 1 year ago
@ArizonaDesertPiper Then I'm sure you have seen the famous cartoon. (this is not what I base my disbelief on this is just a source) The guy who made cartoon devoted a good part of his life looking up original manuscripts, discussing with people and researching the Mormon doctrine. I am not saying the leaders of the Church deliberately deceive people I'm saying they are not told the full story.
Zayin1993 1 year ago
@Zayin1993 What have they not told?
ArizonaDesertPiper 1 year ago
@ArizonaDesertPiper They do not profess their foundational doctrine. For example, a lot of Mormons do not know that they believe that Lucifer was Jesus' brother. or that they believe black people were sent here as a result of a curse, I forgot what blacks supposedly did. (if you press the issue ill just go look it up).
Zayin1993 1 year ago
@Zayin1993 It is Doctrine that Satan and Jesus are if fact both spiritual sons of God the Father thus brothers and a well known Doctrine among all members and many non members who who have even a basic knowledge of the LDS Church. If I am wrong prove it with facts and documentation not rumors and speculation. The doctrine of black is the mark of Cain is also commonly known among the membership, including the black members. Your statements are incorrect.
ArizonaDesertPiper 1 year ago
@ArizonaDesertPiper I am not arguing science, nor do I need prove your wrong by facts and claims. I am simply stating that Mormonism is false.
What I believe, is the Holy Trinity, The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are all one. Jesus IS God. Satan is a fallen angel. The prove I have of this is in The Bible. (Mormons do not believe in every thing The Bible has to say. Only bits and pieces.) The mark of Cain is simply a racist cop-out.
Do you consider "LDS" a Christian religion?
Zayin1993 1 year ago
@Zayin1993 Your anwser to my comments is totally non responsive and in accurate. When you make a statement it is up to, when challenged, to back it up with facts. You have failed to do so as of yet, you just continue to make more inaccurate statements. And yes I believe The Church of Jesus Christ to be Christian, and follow God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
ArizonaDesertPiper 1 year ago
@ArizonaDesertPiper I'm sorry if I cannot express what I need to convey in 500 characters.Also I don't see any assertions, in my statement other than given facts backed-up by The Bible, and my opinion, "Mormonism is false".
The Mormon belief is in no way Christian and is BLASPHEMY. It puts God on Satan's level, by calling them brothers. Furthermore, it identifies a false prophet named Joseph Smith, stating you will answer to Smith as if he was God (or a god).
The doctrine is flawed...
Cont.
Zayin1993 1 year ago
@ArizonaDesertPiper To be Christian you must identify Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. NO OTHER BEING.
What I am basically getting down to is, do more research, look at History, and find out who you should devote your energy to. Please.
Zayin1993 1 year ago
@Zayin1993 Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. I have already explained that, and the fact that I did extensive research and study before committing to Baptism. You need to read more carefully and not tune out or ignore statements you do not want to hear.
ArizonaDesertPiper 1 year ago
@ArizonaDesertPiper Then why would you stand before a MAN, (Joseph Smith) instead of our Lord and Savior when judgment day arrives ?! Is this not blasphemy?
Also, key words in my sentence, "more research", because the apparent seems to not blatantly stand out to you.
(Did you see the other comment I sent before the one which you answered to?)
Zayin1993 1 year ago
@Zayin1993 I place no one before God the Father, Jesus The Christ, The Holy Ghost.
I have clearly researched it a lot deeper than you have. It seems clear to me that all of your "research" has been anti-material, produced by people with an agenda, mostly to make money. Many of these people have gotten wealthy attacking the Church.
Don't be blinded by hate speech, if you are really interested in the truth seek out out and it will set you free.
ArizonaDesertPiper 1 year ago
@Zayin1993 If you are interested in continuing our exchange we need to keep on point. We need to discuss one subject at a time, when we make a statement we need to back it up with sources, and we need to keep it civil and no name calling or profanity. Further, no Bible Bashing, it is non-productive, and the Apostles and Prophets of old and modern times have warned us not to do it.. Contention is Satan's way not Gods.
ArizonaDesertPiper 1 year ago
@ArizonaDesertPiper "We need to discuss one subject at a time, when we make a statement we need to back it up with sources" Agreed.
"and we need to keep it civil and no name calling or profanity. Further, no Bible Bashing" I'm truly sorry, I did become insensitive, and uncivil, but I have not called any names, or used profanity. And certainly not slandered the Bible in any way.
So, lets start with a common argument, Jesus as Satan's brother. I believe Jesus IS God, Lucifer, WAS an angel. CONT.
Zayin1993 1 year ago
@Zayin1993 I am sorry that you misunderstood my meaning, I did not mean to infer that you did anything. I was merely laying out the ground rules, listing things that I will not tolerate. Bible Bashing means to argue over doctrine and the meanings of Bible verses. We are clearly warned not to do that in scripture. That was the way of the Pharisees
ArizonaDesertPiper 1 year ago
@ArizonaDesertPiper There is no possible way that Jesus was Satan's bro. I would even call this blasphemy, to put God on level with Satan. I will back this up with "Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father." -John 14:9
This of course is Jesus. This partially proves The Holy Trinity. (Father and Son are one)
Zayin1993 1 year ago
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ArizonaDesertPiper 1 year ago
@Zayin1993 When I study John 14:9 in total context of entire chapter I get a totally different meaning. Studying the entire context of the Chapter it is my clear understanding and belief that God the Father and God the Son are 2 clear and separate beings who make up the 1st 2 parts of the Godhead.; i.e.in verse 20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." Does this mean that we are also God the Father?
ArizonaDesertPiper 1 year ago
@Zayin1993 Where did your get this from?
ArizonaDesertPiper 1 year ago
This is why I left the mormon church and am now agnostic. Paraphrasing a bit:
"If you should ask with true intent, he will manifest the truth of it unto you"
If I were to ask you how you would know the answer when you got it, you'd say you felt it in your heart.
Nearly every religion on earth says the same exact thing. When they get the 'yes it's true' answer from god, everybody says "I felt god talk to me in my heart and soul". If every religion feels the same thing, how can any be the ONE.
aclays 1 year ago
@aclays "If every religion feels the same thing, how can any be the ONE."
Just as there are wrong answers and there are right answers on a test. Your job is to search for the correct one. (I believe Christianity is the only correct answer) Also, by Christianity I mean believers of CHRIST. Not Joseph Smith or any other.
I'm sorry you started out in a Mormon church, they have so many secrets, and faults in there founders, and their doctrine in general.
Zayin1993 1 year ago
Your asking God if "it not true"
then the witness would be that it's, as you asked, Not true.
kramd1 1 year ago
I swear to God if tomorrow I go out and tell people I'm the prophet of God there will still be some idiots like her who would buy that,it just shows how stupid and naive the human being can be.
MrSnobby24 1 year ago
you have no idea how stray you are,I really feel sorry for you.
MrSnobby24 1 year ago
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he who has an ear to hear let him or her hear!
brotherfrank62 1 year ago
I love that you are looking unto Jesus Christ to learn whats true.
However,
What I got stuck on, was the difference between fact and faith.
Facts! Jesus was alive! Jesus was crucified! Jesus Christ was risen!
benjamin5883 1 year ago
Now all that is required of faith, is that we believe that he is God.
Now if Jesus Christ never lived, the Bible would crumble, If He was never risen, everything that the bible stands for, would be all lies.
Now If God never came to the Americas, the book of Mormon would never stand. Now if the stories in the book of Mormon never occurred, the book of Mormon would be full of lies. agree?
But there is a problem. The book of Mormon is not historical. Therefore.. what is the conclusion?
benjamin5883 1 year ago
are you a prostitute?
NORTHERNKONFLIKT 1 year ago
I know this book is true, it testifies of Jesus Christ. It is for the purpose of testifying that Jesus is the Christ the son of the living God and that no other man nor name can can salvation come unto the children of men, only in and through the savior Jesus Christ. Please don't judge this book without sincerely seeking God and feeling the truth of it through the holy spirit of God for he will manifest it to you if you are sincere and with faith unwavering seek to truly know and want to know.
SHENAKU 1 year ago
There is a guy in England claiming a book of Jeranecks. It's the same as the BofM, but for "Those Guys in England". It would be nice to have a scintilla of evidence for the location of any shields, swords, etc around Cumorah... or someone confirming the translation of the Abraham Papyrus
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
If you KNOW that the book is true, then I'm a little confused...
How is it that the BOM is true, yet speaks of horses in the new world in 6th century BC when full-sized horses were introduced to the Western Hemisphere by Spanish conquistadors in the sixteenth century A.D?
You seem sincere but I'm guessing that you've been taught and have heard what you've just said since birth....right? You are "parroting" what you've learned to say in countless sacrament meetings...
Been there done that.
rpavich 1 year ago
ehhh...read the bible instead
ImNoEmoKid 1 year ago
Do you read the Bible much?
NrdyPrep 1 year ago
TO all Mormons, please read Galatians 1:8. Paul speaks of not listening to anyone who preaches any other gospel than what they are preaching . Even if and angel from heaven preaches any other gospel than what they have been proclaiming. This sounds to me like the angel Moroni.
orderofmelchizedek1 1 year ago
The gospel of Mormonism was not the gospel preached by the apostle Paul, it was altered by Joseph Smith and thus is not to be trusted! Satan is a master counterfeiter and just loves to lead people astray. Dear Mormons, don't trust what you are being told, find out for yourself what the church really believes, your eternal destiny may depend on it!!!
orderofmelchizedek1 1 year ago
See the end from the beginning'
"When I was 11 years old, my family had to leave East Germany and begin a new life in West Germany overnight. Until my father could get back into his original profession as a government employee, my parents operated a small laundry business in our little town. I became the laundry delivery boy
omiolo 1 year ago
"I eventually learned that to become a pilot, I needed to speak English. Suddenly, the resisting condition of my mouth changed. I was able to learn the language. Why? Because of a strong motive!
"Our motives and thoughts ultimately influence our actions. Jesus repeatedly emphasized the power of good thoughts and proper motives: 'Look unto me in every thought; doubt not, fear not.'" (Doctine and Covenants 6:36)
omiolo 1 year ago
"I agonized through those school years, helped and encouraged by kind and understanding English teachers, but I just couldn't do it. It wasn't my thing!
"At this time, my dream in life was to become a pilot. Almost daily I rode my bicycle to the airport. I could picture myself in the cockpit of an airliner or even in a military jet fighter. This was definitely my thing!
omiolo 1 year ago
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I know that the church of latter day saints is a complete and total fraud! What makes me say this? Well, The complete lack of any evidence for the existence of jews in early America, the lack of any historical evidence for any of the stories related in the book of mormon, and the mountain of evidence from many scientic fields which contradict every word that the mormon church teaches. What you believe young lady is not important, what is important is the evidence and the facts, show me yours?
scottwoy1000 1 year ago
@Satsuma65---curious...When did Jesus destroy the book of mormon people and why? see 3rd Nephi chap 9, is this the Jesus we see in the gospels? I dont thnk so. Jesus came to save sinners...see 1 Tim. 1:15, ST. John 3:16-17, Luke 9:56 St. Jn 12:46-47 respectfully.
Rypaul5217 1 year ago
I can see your a nice young lady. Unfortunately being nice does not protect you from deception. Look at the Book of Abraham facsimiles. Here we see actual proof Joseph was making it up. Joseph lied. But do not lose heart, the real Jesus of the Bible still loves you even though you believe Satan is his spirit brother. Turn away from Joseph and his teachings, and rely on the Bible and Christ. Then you will discover real truth, and real faith.
lgazzini 2 years ago
no one can translate egyptian correctly as it ultimately comes down to intuition. the egyptian language is not based on constant symbols as english is, but rather the symbols used can change from person to person, and one symbol could mean completely different things when used in different contexts. I have taken classes with non-mormon linguists who say that the book of abraham might very well be a correct translation.
bellarmine246 2 years ago
@bellarmine246. I have to strongly disagree with you. There are aspects to translating Egyptian that are well known. We KNOW the names of the Egyptians gods found in the facsimilies used in the Book of Abraham. Joseph Smith did not get the name of a single one of them correct. Joseph was wrong 100% of the time. Your answer is a reflex deflection. No Egyptologist has ever given Smith a single ray of hope (except for the highly biased LDS ones.)
lgazzini 2 years ago
I would recommend you look into Hugh Nibley. He was arguably te best in his field (ancient history, linguistics, and theology). He has written some very in depth analysese on the subject. This is from anevangelical comittee; "The first [conclusion] is that there are, contrary to popular evangelical perceptions, legitimate Mormon scholars. We use the term scholar in its formal sense of intellectual, erudite; skilled in intellectual investigation; trained in ancient languages."
bellarmine246 2 years ago
Nibley himself was not an Egpytologist. Even with all the efforts Nibley put into the Book of Abraham, he NEVER found the name of a single Egyptian god that Smith correctly translated. NEVER. Joseph Smith was always wrong when it came to the names of common Egyptian gods. You can refer me to all the sources you can come up with, but nothing written by Joseph Smith changes the fact he was wrong.
lgazzini 2 years ago
Huge Nibblers daughter says he used to sexually abuse her. do a google search the church is now nervous of promoting him as their defender. He is being pushed to the back now.Lyman Bushman seems to be the man the church relies on. He in a short introduction to mormonism admits the book of abraham does not bare any resemblance to the egyptian parchments. He does not admit Joe Smith was a fraud but he might as well. Sorry to burst your bubble but Smith 32 wives mostly age 16 and 14 paedophile.
Hyrumfyrum 2 years ago
The entire Nibley family has denied that there was any abus, and any that knew him knows that his Daughter is lyin because she has an attention issue and wanted publicity. He book doesn't even agree. THe church is not nervous to promote him, but he isnt the only one, and their foremost scholar (in my humble opinion); Daniel Peterson, support the prophet's testimony of th Book of Abraham from a very scholarly and academic point of vew.
bellarmine246 2 years ago
2 Nephi 5 :21 "And he caused the cursig to come upon them yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore as they were white and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
23 "And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even ...same cursing"
Hyrumfyrum 2 years ago
morman is so rediculus shut your mouth about mormans they are not going to heaven,look up the real Holy Bible.
sergiomdd 2 years ago
you completely ignore where it says in *OUR* bible, "judge not lest ye for your iniquities be judged"
and no, that is not from the mormon translation.
instead of spreading hate and intolerance, actually read the bible and follow what christ is telling you to do.
bellarmine246 2 years ago
Mormonism is a blessing for those of us who are agnostic or atheist. It is so obviously, ridiculously and blatantly false, that it provides a fabulous case study for how crazy superstitions and beliefs become cults and finally morph into "respectable" religions .... Now we can turn our gaze to the older, still silly bronze age beliefs of the Abrahamic religions ... seriously people, we are communicating via the Internet ... it is 2009 and we don't need these crazy delusions to be good people.
htoromoreno 2 years ago
I was just like you until I read Rough Stone Rolling by Bushman and In sacred loneliness by Todd Compton. I then found out Joseph Smith married over 30 women some as young as 14 and some already married. Poor Orson Hyde was sent on a mission but while gone Joseph married Marinda Hyde telling her to stay married to Orson as well. Orson was mad but clamed down when Joe Smith gave him 3 wives as compensation. I suggest you read compton's book Smith was not the wonderful man we thought he was.
Hyrumfyrum 2 years ago
@Hyrumfyrum I suggest that you not believe everything that you read. Joseph Smith married one woman and one woman only. Her name was Emma. For your info, Joseph Smith didn't start Polygamy. Brigham Young did and claimed that it came from Joseph, long after Joseph died.
stu12gage 2 years ago
stu12gage
_________________________________________
continued.
Jospeh propsed to William law's wife while he was on a church business trip. Smith was marrying other mens wives secertly such as apsotle Orson Hyde's wife. Mrs law said no, William published the expositer, Smith burnt the printing press got arrested then shot three people killing two before he was shot. Polygamy led to his death. Fanny Alger age 15 was his second wife, emma found them having sex in the barn. Emma was very angry.
Hyrumfyrum 2 years ago
stu12gage
------------------------------------------------------------
What is scary is that he used older siblings to pressure the young girls, he also told them there families would be damened from the highest level in the CK if they did not marry him. Brigham Younh got affidavits from most of Smith's 32 known wives to say he had sex with them. You can google this or llook on wikipedia or the church's genealogy site. Its all there he was an evil man and a false prophet.
Hyrumfyrum 2 years ago
are you delusional? Mr Smith as a con man- do your research. subjective assertions doesn't make it TRUE, because I can do the same with the quran and get the same feeling and testimony.... let us reason with the scriptures
theembracedofgod 2 years ago
Sad fact is..If Mormons would come out and admit they are not Christian, most "anti" mormons would leave them alone. They claim to be Christ followers, but they don't follow the christ as taught and revealed in the Holy Bible. Then attack Christians who defend the true faith as commanded in Jude verse 3.
theminimumdog 2 years ago
You're right! It has been about 50 to 60years Mormons have tried to gain public recognition that they are Christian. Just another tatic to gain public approval and run away from the weirdness that drove them out of Illinois and Missouri.
Mormons will never be Christian until they drop the blasphemous, evil doctrines of Joseph and Sidney Rigdon.
awolLDSasap 2 years ago
Not one coin has been found from these lamanites and Nephites. they came from the Jews and had coins and money. Not one building settlement or artefact has been found and yet we have loads of mayan and Inca artefacts. large chunks of the bible have been stuck in the 3rd nephi chapter it is a poorly contrived con trick. the new shopping mall paid for by tithing looks like the great and spacious building prophesy being fulfilled though,
Hyrumfyrum 2 years ago
Don't think that critics who are not looking for evidences for the book of Mormon are going to find any; especially if they continue the myth that there's "no evidences." But what if there is!? Would you be willing to at least see & acknowledge the evidence?
You Tube: Restored Apologetics, playlists:
Rebuttal to 'The Bible Vs. The Book Of Mormon'
Book of Mormon Evidences That Are NOT Suppose to Exist!
Christ As Cosmic Cruiser - Christ Visits Other Nations
RESTOREDAPOLOGETICS 2 years ago
I have looked into these "evidences".
Mysterious and magical defines it.
awolLDSasap 2 years ago
restoredapologeticsThere are none smith was a fraud and you know it. When he wrote it he was against the masons hence the bits about secret combinations. he then became a mason and was founder of the nauvoo lodge. he was a conman liar and violater of women you should read in sacred loneliness by Todd Compton a mormon - you have a lot to learn about your church
Hyrumfyrum 2 years ago
If a population as large as the Book of Mormon describes had actually existed as recently as it claims, there would most certainly be a genetic presence in current populations, as well as linguistic and archaeological evidence. However there is none.
theminimumdog 2 years ago 2
this is a great home teaching !
stephennewman71 2 years ago
See this is what Mormons do..they talk all about their book of Mormon and Joseph Smith..putting Jesus and the Holy Bible on the backburner..its a covered up false teaching that is absolutely 100% wrong.
Kingofmean 2 years ago
they use another book well scriptures cause christ didint come for everyone like they trying to teach heres proff isa 28:9 1john 3:3 lev 26:46 psa 147:19-20 romans 3:9 matthew 1:21 matthew 2:5 matthew 10:5-6 matthew 15:24 .... comes from blood line his people cause not everyone on earth was born from the people he choose which isnt everyone and if they try to use jogn3:15 then they also have to read john 17:9 isa 45:17 cause they forgot this lol oh yeah
durango64 2 years ago
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oceantalk1 2 years ago
Google 'Mountain Meadows Massacre" you mormon nazi. You people will not make others fall for your poison
japanman104 2 years ago
I belive in the Book of Mormon too! God is the God of the whole world! He didn't just make himself known to the people who wrote the books in the Bible but to all his children on the earth! It is very ignorant for anyone to say that they do not believe something unless they have actually read it :) I love Jesus Christ and I know he is our Savior! God loves us and is there to listen to us when we ask him for help and to bless us :)
mccallthebest 2 years ago
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hey you mormons worship a different Jesus Christ,Don't cry we know the truth
lds mormon false prophet gordon b. hinckley said he worship a different Jesus Christ
no I don't believe in the traditional Christ,the traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak,for the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this dispensation of the fullness of times,Gordon B, Hinckley desert news,church news section,salt lake city utah,week ending june 20,1998,page 7
oceantalk1 2 years ago
Jesus would say too you, Ye with a little faith, ye can not receive an answer till you have faith. Repent! God does Live and so does his Son Jesus. Satin causes anger. I never need to debate, I have my answers from God for he spoke to me and what a shame you will never believe that tell you have faith first. Wake Up and Love one another before it is to late. God Bless
tim4962 2 years ago
Here is a wondeful woman sharing her Testimony and here comes many sinners arguing with each other who is correct and who is not. Humble your self and ask God.
tim4962 2 years ago
Hey Rommelator, read over the last 3 pages of comments between therealthing and I and answer my questions. I've yet to find a mormon who can answer them.
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
liar...you are just spouting off old objections that have been answered time and time again...you just want us to waste our time, yet...you have NOT answered my questions..liar.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
hahaha, you again? as you can see i am now communicating with rommelater, someone who is willing to answer some questions unlike you
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
YOu are just lame and pathetic...rommelater is just going to waste his time with you...you are not worth the time...your kind have been around since Cain...you will always fight against the Lord...and lose.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
let the people decide my friend
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago 2
Hey imtherealthing i asked you earlier for a link to your Christian deification article. I am interested in seeing your point. Please provide a link i have looked and can not locate it.
peteygamgam 2 years ago
Google the following:
"The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology and deification"
just like that above...it should be your first hit and in a PDF format and on page 147 if I recall...it's there...if you can't find this..then get the book itself..remember..the internet should NEVER be a substitute for REAL research and ALWAYS go to primary sources...even those works which are translated from original languages are not unless you know the languages, but this will suffice.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
ya i have looked but i can not find it still, thats why i asked for a link, well i am not going to go buy the book, if you ever get me a link i would be interested.
peteygamgam 2 years ago
I had no problems finding it...but I also sent you the link via PM and if that does not work copy and paste the following into a google search and see page 147:
"The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology and Deification"
imtherealthing 2 years ago
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Mormon cult leaders evil history and past and some of their very young brides who they married.
lds leaders taught monogomy is evil
false prophet joseph smith age 37, married helen mar kimball age 14
lds apostle orson pratt aged 57,married 16 year old margaret graham his 11th wife,and second 16 year old one
lds apostle orson hyde 52 years old,married 16 year old anne eliza vickers,which was the second of six wives.
oceantalk1 2 years ago
Thank you for your sincere and heartfelt testimony.
Don't lose heart. The Church is true and the Gospel will fill the World.
Rommelator 2 years ago
if anyone wants to answer my questions, they are 2 pages back or so. i challenge any mormon to answer them.
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
i guess that makes us family :)
to anyone else, feel free to read my comments and please answer them. message me personally with anything
reasonableanswers123 2 years ago
Yes..please message this little boy for a laugh...lol
He can't even answer my questions...but yes, please I invite you to message him..he is harmless...as he doesn't know anything about the LDS church except what you can already get off the internet...lol
imtherealthing 2 years ago
can you post a link to find the statement from the book about deification, i have looked online and can not find one I am interested in seeing your point of argument.
peteygamgam 2 years ago
i've got the link to the google book i'll send it over to you
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
And btw, i wrote up all that stuff by myself, no copying and pasting. so do just give me an answer.
reasonableanswers123 2 years ago
YOU have NOT looked everywhere..I know as anyone who knows anything about LDS apologetics...you are a liar..plain and simple..nice try..anti-mormon posing as a non-believer...the extent you lying christians go to..never ceases to amaze me..but your comments always give you away...try harder...like I said...not only are you a liar, but lazy and deceptive.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
STOP CALLING ME A LIAR AND HELP ME FIND THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS IF IM SO CONFUSED.
Please, anything, you can't provide ANYTHING. ANYTHING. You sit here and constantly repeat yourself, YET YOU HAVE NOTHING TO PROVIDE.
reasonableanswers123 2 years ago
I CAN CALL YOU A "LIAR" AND i WILL DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN..YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A "LIAR"..
imtherealthing 2 years ago
wow. ok. thank you, this "kid" has just proven that you are all talk and no evidence. have a nice night, God Bless You
reasonableanswers123 2 years ago
"God Bless You"?
Not affiliated with christianity huh?...rrriiiggghhtttt
You lying false christians..make me laugh...you are ALWAYS exposed by your words...lol..nice try..can't answer my objections so you go into damage control..and make up all this and run...keep running anti-mormon...run..but you can't hide from the TRUTH...the TRUTH CANNOT be confounded..TRUTH is eternal...the LORd will always expose your kind and you kind will feel HIS judgment...for your lies.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
let the people read over our comments and see who is running here. good night, God Bless
reasonableanswers123 2 years ago
on another note, if you ever come across any of those answers, just message me. thanks
reasonableanswers123 2 years ago
Nice try...yes..run away from answering my question and yes..let the SPIRIT bare witness to Christ's sheep who hear his voice...to those who are not sincere seekers..they will believe whatever you say...because your father is the father of all lies...satan.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
and your father is satans father haha.
reasonableanswers123 2 years ago
Okay, so again, you won't answer my questions. That's all I need to know.
Another Mormon who claims to have answers but gives none. It doesn't take an expert or someone who is not a "kid" to repeat over and over, in many different ways, that they have no answers.
Answer the questions or just stop talking, you can your self made conclusion on deification in your response,
JUST ANSWER THEM. End of story.
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
Yes kid..run..run away from thinking...I know it is much easier to cut and paste those objections then to actaully thinnk your way through a debate...run kid run.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
Please, enough of your rhetoric.
***Please, just answer my questions. That's all. you claim to have the answers, then answer them***
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
All those answers are all over the internet...don't be so lame..this is no real debate to sit here and vomit up answers that have been already provided all over the internet to those "old" objections...come on kid..try harder...
Use your mind...you kids today..are too lazy...go look them up yourself..answer my non-pre-fabricated objection..use your mind if you have one and think..pretty hard.for you isn't it?..but try...
imtherealthing 2 years ago
"All those answers are all over the internet...don't be so lame..this is no real debate to sit here and vomit up answers that have been already provided all over the internet to those "old" objections...come on kid..try harder..."
Well I haven't found them. GIve them to me if they are truly everywhere. You can even start with a paraphrase and I will ask you to give an extended explanation on specific points later.
Answers, please.
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
YOu LAZY simpleton...you are not only lazy but a liar...go to the MANY webistes that give these answers...so easy to find those anti-mormon objections..but you won't even try to find the answers...forget it..use the same energy you used to cut and paste those objections...and do it yourself...I know and MANY do know they are there..so nice try...liar.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
MAN. I HAVE LOOKED EVERYWHERE.
You're making yourself look like a fool sitting here telling me that they are everywhere, yet you can't even show them to me!!
GIVE ME A LINK AT LEAST. ANYTHING.
pathetic.
reasonableanswers123 2 years ago
This isn't about what religion I am, I originally made my post to prove that the LDS church is false.
Now, you should rebuttal. If you cannot rebuttal, then you are conceding in this argument.
If you can rebuttal, then hit me point by point.
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
First off kid..it is "Rebutt"..not "rebuttal"...lol
And next, you are not calling the shots here...so..like I said..it takes no expert to cut and paste objections...so answer my question christian or not..the refernece clearly shows early Christians believed in many gods or that they would become gods themselves.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
Okay, I just read it. I know that you want to justify your beliefs by giving yourself some sort of "unorthodox" but oh so true in your mind explanation on the nature of God and his image. This is a complete bullshit argument because the Mormon prophets have openly stated what it literally means to become like God.
Now, answer my questions. Seriously, you've dodged it quite a few times now. Answer them, you claim to know all of the answers but you haven't answered anything!
Go for it big man
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
HEY BUD. I'm not Christian, so stop referring to them as "my biblical scholars"
now answer the questions that i so clearly posted. go for it, be the big man that you are. answer them
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
NOT Christian?..oh so sad..an athiest then?..and one who depends on anti-mormon literature?..this is too laughable...ROFL!!!
So what is your interest in anything LDS?..why not JW's or evangelical christians?...come on kid...what's your story?
imtherealthing 2 years ago
straight and simple, i'm here to prove that the LDS church is false and practices many blasphemys. i have done so by posting that info with sources. defend your church.
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
YOu have PROVEN NOTHING but that you are full of hot air..anyone can cut and paste anti-mormon objections..the real test is deabting...let's discuss the GODHEAD...please read what I told you to..it is non-LDS
imtherealthing 2 years ago
"and practices many blasphemys"?
hmm..sounds like you are affiliated with something kid...no one uses that kind of language unless they are coming from a Metaphysical perspective.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
otherwise, you're just being incredibly redundant with saying that i am like everyone else
unless you have some answers for me or some kind of explanation as to my previous posts, then i have nothing to say to you
come on, the floor's yours.
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
Did you read up on "Deification" yet kid?...come on what's the hold up...it will only take you about 5 min to do this...scared to know what it says?
imtherealthing 2 years ago
"unless you have some answers for me or some kind of explanation as to my previous posts, then i have nothing to say to you"
LOL..nice cop out when confronted with someone who knows more than you expected to know...come on kid..stop pretending to be an expert on anthing LDS..you are making my sides hurt...seriously...lol
imtherealthing 2 years ago
COME ON...show me you really know anything...read what I gave you and let's discuss what you read by your own "biblical scholars"..then we can discuss the GODHEAD from there since it is a related topic....that is the best place to start...then we will move on...if you don't understand who GOD is then you know NOTHING...so let's get this debate going.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
Let's start with ONe topic and go from there. I want you to tell me after you read "The Westminster Dictionary of Chrsitian Theology" on the topic of Defication found on page 147 bottom right...do what you and your kind are good at...copy and paste the book title here I gave and the word "deification"...and it should be your first hit...read it and then let's discuss your reading of this by your own scholars..ok kid?
imtherealthing 2 years ago
All those commetns below have been answered time and time again by our faith..anyone can find those answers easily...so why bother posting old objections unless 1) That is your limit of knowledge (one or two anti-mormon sources you cut and paste from). 2) You fear actually dialouging because you don't have the intellectual abiblity because you are dependant upon set objections so you lack the skill to debate..which is quite obvious by your comments. 3) You know down deep you are wrong
imtherealthing 2 years ago
we christians are right,cause the holy bible truth and word is right,cause we follow and obey the biblical Jesus Christ and his word,let God be true and every man a liar romans 3:4
oceantalk1 2 years ago
YOu do NOT believe in the "biblical Jesus Christ"...your god is a false god...a god made up by philosophers...come on..your god is so obviuously flase how can any rational being believe in those crazy creeds?...three-in-one craziness..just like your Sola Scriptura...GOD NEVER said he would stop gving us revelation...the bible the way your kind use it was never meant to be used that way...it was a collection of sayings and revelation from prophets and apostles..just like we LDS do today.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
haha... well the LDS god has trillions of gods over him... such a flawed system of belief
also, your god had physical sex the virgin Mary
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
Your comments here demonstrate a weak understanding of LDS theology...Ed Deckers "God makers" seems to be your limit of exposure to anything LDS...lol..even other anti-mormons laugh at him...you are going to have to do better than that.
As for the many gods...I recommend you read a book by your own "biblical scholars" called "The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology" there is a PDF version on-line...look up "Deification"...start there and lets discuss what they say about it..
imtherealthing 2 years ago
dude, stop trying to justify your religious beliefs by giving a bunch of personal references...
bottom line:
LDS Doctrine states the following:
-Blacks have darker complexion due to a curse (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses)
-god the father had a god, who had a god, and so forth, you're polytheists, you directly worship 2 different entities (the son and the father) (Best citation for this is Joseph Smitih's King Follett Discourse)
- belief that god the father had physical sex with ...
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
Look another person AVOIDING my question posed to them...and look another anti-mormon who just cuts and pastes objections that have been answered time and time again...lol..like I said...can someone please find just ONE intelligent anti-mormon out there for me to debate with...hey kid...try answering my question...did you read the source I pointed you to?..there is a PDF version on line..since you and your kind are so good at "armchair academics"...you are not original..sigh..same old same old
imtherealthing 2 years ago
continued..
-belief that god the father had physical sex with the virgin Mary. (from Apostle Bruce McConkie in The Mormon Doctrine)
- JOSEPH SMITHS PAPYRUS. Without a doubt one of the biggest pieces of hard evidence that the church is false. Joseph Smith was unable to correctly finish off the papyrus or correctly translate the text.
- Archaeological evidence proves that native americans aren't descendants of the Israelites. continued...
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
- Joseph Smith broke many of the rules of his own church after becoming a "prophet". He even attempted to become a Methodist in 1928, after receiving his vision from his god
- Joseph Smith was a mason, during his martyrdom in which he he got intoxicated and killed 2 men, "oh Lord, my God" is a masonic distress signal, all of this on the account of the 3rd prophet of the church John Taylor
Want more? your church is obviously completely phony. all of this is accepted by the church
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
Listen "kid"...you post nothing new here that isn't already been asked and answered...go get yourself a real education so that you can learn to distinguish between citing "primary sources" versus secondary and latter sources...if you knew how to do real reserach...you would know the differance..instead...all you do is re-gurgitate old objections with no real value....did you read from the source I gave you on "deification"?
imtherealthing 2 years ago
if its nothing new t hen answer all of it. i've yet to meet a mormon who can answer such "overused and redundant" questions.
stop acting like your religion is supported by any sort of objective reasoning or credible arguments for that matter.
gimme some answers, point by point. or else you're a fraud just like every other mormon i've met. you said the same thing over and over, you're just attacking me! support your damn religion if it's so miraculous and wonderful.
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
Nice try kid...but I know your kinds tricks..you try to innudate us with all sorts of easily cut and pasted objections...but this is not going to work here...so answer "my" objection I posed first...then we will tackle ONE by ONE your pathetic attempts of what you think is LDS theology
imtherealthing 2 years ago
you want me to read a PDF. I want you to answer questions that are posted right here, right now. go for it.
as everyone can see, he refuses to answer them. if they're just so copy and pasted why don't you reply to them with answers provided before??
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
You are still avoiding my questions...why do you run from defending your false god?
All you are doing here is nothing but spewing off old anti-mormon out of context objections...poor kid..lol..well..why are you running?...what do you have to be a shamed of if you have the truth?..unless it is not the TRUTH...if you truly believed you had the TRUTH...you would stop avoiding the answer and stop desperately trying to cover it up by cutting and pasting old anti-mormon objections here...lol
imtherealthing 2 years ago
I have already answered you,now weigh it,joseph smith was a false prophet who has lifted his eyes up in hell with hinckley,and unless monson repent and turn from his wicked ways,he is going to lift up his eyes up in hell also.
oceantalk1 2 years ago
If God is the GOD of FALSE gods..then not only do you admit that there exists "other" gods which you denied but you also make GOD a GOD of FALSE gods...which we know he can't be. So the only conclusive answer is that GOD is the GOD of TRUE gods...as the early Christians taught and believed...see what your own "biblical scholars" say about this in the book: The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology" under the heading "Deification"..foolish little boy...it says this quite clearly...
imtherealthing 2 years ago
"I and my father are one john 10:30 "
Show me where this means they are one in "substance" or "essence"..please provide the EXACT reference in CONTEXT here to this meaning the are the same person and not ONE in purpose.
In that very chapter other than it demonstrating that there "are" other gods...Jesus also makes the DINSTINCTION between himself and the Father....do you even READ the scriptures...all your ideas of the GODHEAD are coloured with FALSE CREEDAL statements made by men.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
you mormons will never be a god,cause we are only humans,there is only one true and living God of Israel isaiah 43:10,you mormons take this scripture out of context in john,that is why satan,the devil got kicked out of heaven,cause he wanted to become god,and take the place of the great God of Israel,you mormons are pharisees,who is on the way to hell, with the devil and all of his fallen angels rev 21:8 14:11,matt 25:41
lds is a cult,so buyers beware
oceantalk1 2 years ago
more proof mormonism is the anti-christ cult system
mormonism teaches another gospel and another jesus who mormons teach was a polygamist,mormonism also teaches that their other doctrines such as the bom and pearl of great price and d&c are other testaments of Jesus Christ
the holy bible says anyone who goes beyond Christ teaching,does not have God,but who ever continues to follow the teaching of Christ,has both the father and the son 2 john :9
mormonism goes beyond Christ teachings
oceantalk1 2 years ago
if anyone wants undeniable proof that the LDS religion is false just message me and I'll be glad to correspond with you outside of youtube. my comments always get deleted here
reasonableanswers12 2 years ago
Sure your comments get deleted...is that why I can see your comments?...you anti-mormon FALSE christians make me laugh...you just want to cut and paste anti-mormon objections and then e-mail them to people and PRETEND to be some sort of expert on anything LDS...LOL...if you have anything to say...say it here....why don't you try REPLYING to "my" objections to your FALSE trinitarian god I just made here..let's see how good you are at defending your false 3-headed schizo god
imtherealthing 2 years ago
the reason,you and other lds cult members delete our answers,is because they are the truth according to holy bible scriptures,and you lds know this,that our comments expose mormonsim for the anti-christ cult system it is,
oceantalk1 2 years ago
That's funny...in most cases it is you lying FALSE christians who delete our comments...if we do any such thing it is because you either spam old anti-mormon objections over and over again hoping to inundate LDS videos with cut and pasted objections or your comments are full of filthy expletives as is common among your kind...you on the other hand delete any comments defending the Lord's church or you never answer the objections posed to you just as you do so now...liar.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
I boast that no man ever did such a work as I,the
followers of Jesus ran away from him,but the latter-
day saints never ran away from me yet,when they can
get rid of me,the devil will also go,joseph smith,
history of the church vol 6 pages 408-409
I will be to this generation a 2nd muhammad,who motto
in treating for peace was the al-quran or the sword,
so shall it be with us,joseph smith or the sword
joseph smith,history of the church vol 3:167
joseph smith was a false prophet
oceantalk1 2 years ago
The only men who become gods or even the sons of God,
are those who enter into polygamy,brigham young,
journal of discourses 11:269
I discovered that some of the eastern papers represent me as a great blasphemer,cause I said in my lecture on marriage at our last conference,that Jesus
Christ was married at cana of galilee,that mary,
martha,and others were his wives,and that he begat
children,orson hyde,journal of discourses 2:210
more proof smith and young were false prophets
oceantalk1 2 years ago
there are contradictions in the bom
the bom says Jesus Christ was born in jerusalem,alma
7:10
the holy bible says Jesus Christ was born in bethlehem matthew 2:1
the bom says zedekiah had a son named mulek who lived
heleman 8:21
there is no mention of a son of zedekiah named mulek in the bible,and it says that his sons were slain,but the bom contradicts and say that his son mulek lived
oceantalk1 2 years ago
mormonism exposed mormonism disproved
It is true that the blood of the son of God was shed for sins,through the fall and those committed by men,yet men can commit sins which it can never remit,they must be atoned for by the blood of the man,brigham young journal of discourses vol 4 page 51
these are the doctrines of demons that lds false prophets taught
oceantalk1 2 years ago