(Please also READ before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)..
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Manitoba chiefs declare emergency over ice road delays
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Northern Manitoba aboriginal leaders have declared a state of emergency over delays in the opening of winter roads, and blamed weeks of sustained warm weather "caused by climate change" for the delays. They are also upset about "continuing political inaction."
(PLEASE READ before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)..
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Florida counties band together to ready for warming's effects
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While U.S. action on climate change remains stalled, four south Florida counties have joined forces to plan for how to deal with the impacts, some of which are already being felt. of rising seas, higher temperatures, and more torrential rains.
Noam 'New World Order' Chomsky. Notice how he never once actually talks about climatology. He hasn't a clue about it.
'The climate is warming (no it isn't), so we should shut down all industry in the West and ship it to China and India. And we should have carbon taxes and cap and trade (Goldman Sachs) schemes.'
More evidence/impacts of climate change series..Nature Journal edition:
(Please read article before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts is allowed to censor it)..
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Thawing permafrost reduces river runoff
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Chinese researchers have revealed that the amount of water entering the Yangtze River near its source on the Tibetan plateau has fallen by 15% over the past four decades, despite a 15% increase in glacial melt and increased rainfall over the same period.
(PLEASE read article before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts is allowed to censor it)..
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Climate change makes life harder for baby harp seals
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Warming in the North Atlantic Ocean has decreased winter sea ice and increased the death rate for baby harp seals over the past three decades, according to a new study.
(Please read article before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)..
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Prehistoric bones: A cottage industry in Siberia
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Siberia’s permafrost, which has held the remains of predators and herbivores alike in an epochal deep freeze, is beginning to melt. And the bones of prehistoric rhinos, bison, reindeer, horses – and yes, mammoths – are rising to Yakutia’s surface at an amazing rate. .
(Please read article before the denier censors it)..
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Insurers: Record year for federal disasters linked to climate change, political pressure
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Last year's record for federal disasters in Connecticut was part of a rising worldwide natural catastrophe trend that's caused in part by climate change, insurance groups reported Wednesday.
More evidence/impacts of climate change series...(please read article before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)..
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Environment world review of the year: '2011 rewrote the record books.'
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The ecologically tumultuous year saw record greenhouse gas emissions, melting Arctic sea ice, natural disasters and extreme weather – and the world's second worst nuclear disaster.
More evidence/impacts of climate change series...(please read article before thedenier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)..
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Philippine flooding disaster foretold 3 years ago
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The tragedy that struck the cities of Cagayan de Oro and Iligan was an event waiting to happen. Massive flooding was foretold three years ago, but was dismissed by lawmakers as “too alarmist.”
More evidence/impacts of climate change series (please read article before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)
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World's poor pay for PM's policies
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The Harper government, working arm-in-arm with international oil interests, has done its best to sabotage a process aimed at preventing the catastrophic climate impacts that particularly threaten the world’s most vulnerable people: food and water shortages, crop reductions, flooding and loss of land
More evidence/impacts of climate change series...(Please read it before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)..
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Climate is warming despite 'ups and downs.'
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Periodic short-term cooling in global temperatures should not be misinterpreted as signalling an end to global warming, according to an Honorary Research Fellow with CSIRO Marine and Atmospheric Research, Barrie Hunt.
More evidence/impacts of climate change series...(read it before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)..
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Coal mega-mines a 'global threat'
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The development of coal ''mega-mines'' in central Queensland, such as the massive China First project, will destroy the world's chance of keeping global warming to 2 degrees, the environmental group Greenpeace claims.
More evidence/impacts of climate change series...(read it before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)..
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2011 science news of the year
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Some of the year’s revelations were downright unnerving: Sea level is rising at an accelerating rate and Arctic ice cover continues its long-term decline. But there are reasons for optimism, too.
Gov. Jerry Brown, a Democrat, had the Republican Party - and the 2012 presidential race - in his sights Thursday when he blasted what he called the "skepticism, the denial and the cult-like behavior of political lemmings that would take us over the cliff" on the key issue of climate change.
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San Francisco Chronicle, California 16 December 2011
A recent estimate suggests that permafrost, which underlies nearly a quarter of the Northern Hemisphere, contains twice as much carbon as the entire atmosphere. Temperatures are warming across much of the region and signs are emerging that the frozen carbon may be becoming unstable.
Quebec to start emission caps as Canada exits pact
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The province of Quebec announced Thursday the launch of a carbon emissions cap-and-trade system in 2012, days after Canada became the only country to ratify and then withdraw from the Kyoto Protocol.
Evidence / impacts of climate change series...(read it before the denier with all the sock puppet channels censors it)...
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Governor vows to prepare California for climate change
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The United Nations' top climate official joined California Governor Jerry Brown on Thursday to call for renewed efforts in the state to more quickly adapt to the risks that extreme weather and a rising sea pose to agriculture and the coastline.
Climate change in the news...(this one is particularly interesting)...
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You get what you pay for (except ...).
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It was a story delicious in its irony. The Koch brothers, the tea party funders whose big money is being splashed around to distort the course of American policymaking, didn't get what they paid for.
Al Gore's climate scientist studies have shown that capitalist countries CO2 emissions, are 1000000 times more harmful than CO2 emissions from communist countries like China
Natural climate variability is extremely unlikely to have contributed more than about one-quarter of the temperature rise observed in the past 60 years, reports a pair of Swiss climate modellers in a paper published online today.
Entire enormous bodies of water have evaporated...there are already scarcity of clean water in the US...Ive witnesses two tornadoes in my town in NY where tornadoes never happened before....I cant remember the last time a storm didnt put us in emergency status. Its ridiculous that the uninformed population is so easily convinced through propoganda put out by oil comps. someone posted a site denying GW..I looked up all the chairpeople who put it together...they were ALL lobbyists for oil
@barbcinque It's like that where I live too, you can't predict the volatility in the weather, you just know it's not the same as it used to be. It's hard on people and the animals as well who have to scramble.
There is a full-time oil troll on this website and probably all the others who posts with thousands of denier sock puppet accounts. Some people actually might think they are all different people. It is disgusting beyond any words I can think of (see below and you will see some of them)
I Don't think Noam and BIlly here actually understand the nitty gtriiy of GHG THeory if it were true.
WRight now it is believed hat co2 % controls tempature and current CO2 Level is 390ppm while tempature is still down with 150 year ago c02 levels on the gaph
Phil Jones data says tempature is now 1 degree abouve 282ppm CO2
When tempatures match 323ppm or 6f degrees hotter then now dwe are extinct and when tempature matches 390ppm humans are long gone
"I'll take scientists and Noam Chomsky over your denier gibberish any day, duh?"
But the Sceientists, even the one on the IPCC are actually saying the same thing I am saying
What the Media,Al Gore,UN, and the BLogasphere is saying the Scientists are saying is Hyped up AGW Meme nonesence, not actuall science or what the Scientists actually said
Especially pay attention to the Scientists that thing the IPCC opinion is to optimistic if AGW Theory were true (It's actually over,we are dead)
"Especially pay attention to the Scientists that thing the IPCC opinion is to optimistic if AGW Theory were true (It's actually over,we are dead)"
Specifically Phil Jones founf +1f o\ver the current tempature match with CO2 at 282ppm
If AGW theory is true then during the suns 11 year cycle of heading to maximus the tempature will climb to match extinction causing 6f degrees hotter at 323ppm co2 and humans will be long gone when tempatures math 390ppm at +12f..tax,green tech, and policy(aside)
Science not politics must drive Durban climate talks: IPCC chief
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Global climate talks need to focus on the growing threat from extreme weather and shift away from political squabbles that hobble progress toward a tougher pact to rein in greenhouse gas emissions, the head of the U.N. climate panel said.
Massive oyster die-offs show ocean acidification has arrived
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The acidification of the world’s oceans from an excess of CO2 emissions has already begun, as evidenced recently by the widespread mortality of oyster larvae in the Pacific Northwest. Scientists say this is just a harbinger of things to come if greenhouse gas emissions continue to soar.
The Climate Vulnerable Forum includes small island states vulnerable to extreme weather and sea level rise, countries with immense spans of low-lying coastline, such as Vietnam and Bangladesh, and dry nations of East Africa. The forum is currently holding a meeting in Bangladesh, with UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon as the keynote speaker.
@Nightversionn They fly all over the world burning fuel so idiots like you will pay higher fuel taxes. And apart from islands that literally have sunk, the GIS satellite has seen oceans dropping for the past three years. There is no argument, the theory, politics and lies are over.
250 people on the IPCC, only 14 Scientists, only 3 of those "climatologists" do not 99% of "scientists make"
Dissing Meterologists that follow the evaporation/percipitation cycle from the heat raising from the surface and DISAPAQTING as wind and cooling of moisture in evaporation as it reaches the colder upper troposphere and turn to clouds with further heat disapation making rain,thunder and lightning as not knowing what they are talking abou by a Philosipher is funny
The concensus once was that the world was flat. This is nothing more than propaganda and lies. I would even doubt that there is any scientific consensus of man made global warming at all apart from the gravy train climate scientists. The facts are that our planet is cooling abruptly and deeply as the effect of the cold PDO,low Sun activity and increased volcanic activity feed into the climate system. Co2 is a harmless atmospheric trace gas which is heavier than air and tends to hug the ground.
"All the recent studies confirm global warming is happening and it's being accelerated by mankind."
Really?
Then why has the UN abandoned AGW and is now trying to get taxation and policy powers via "Overpopulation = stain of resources" bullshhit whil they have basically left IPCC to coast into nonexistance/obscurity after obama gave economic policy powers to the World Bank and not UN?
There is also the problem that politicans,especially the demorat ones,wont touch AGW after Nov 2010's fleecing
@Nightversionn Can you do maths? CO2 affects <7% of the light bandwidth, at 50% of absorption. These bands are approx 10Db down so approx 10% amplitude. IPCC agree 8% of the Earths CO2 is man released CO2.
So, 0.07*0.5*0.1*0.08 = the influence man has on AGW. 0.028%. Now lets add that to the av. 20C Earth air temp. so we add 0.036C to the very generous 20C.
@m1aws Listen denier sock o puppet, I don't need to do the "maths" This is what we have SCIENTISTS for. So we don't have to reinvent the wheel each time we need specialized knowledge,
@Nightversionn Many better people than I have labelled me a scientist. Being an engineer I've always hated that sloppy description.
Wipe your bum, pull your nappy up and get mummy to adjust your pin.
The maths are inarguable. If simple sums are not for you, the proofs all around. No tropo warming, no high temps over Venus' atmosphere at one bar, no heat retention on Mars. No positive feedback from historically high CO2 and the Vostock core readings show CO2 follows heating before CO2 release.
@m1aws No, you are an oil troll sock puppet, the same person who spreads well-funded oil industry propaganda all over this website under different user names
@Nightversionn Said the deluded idiot troll sock puppet. There is nobody as green as me. I'm a well insulated skrimp and I despise Governments and drive a 60mpg car. Well, ok, its not a small car,,, just... modified. :)
So what's YOUR beef? Lost the argument so resort to name calling? Thats saaaad!
@Nightversionn Nobody is funding me but my pension and my investments. Occasionally my hobbies. If you think I'm funded by oil industry I can easily say that of your position. I'm surrounded by kids who still believe in the accuracy of the written word but only from selected sources. I'm astounded on the long term predictability of our GW and the trends being so accurate while the IPCC keep altering their hockey sticks and their masters taxing the people.
@Nightversionn Except there are no actual "climate change denialists".
At any rate, the position should be argued with evidence and not an appeal to authority. I'm rather tired of people resorting to fallacious arguments like "All the scientific authorities agree with this position (except the ones that don't, but they're nutjobs that don't count), and only madmen would ever debate the consensus." Use evidence, not herd mentality.
@OldSchopenhauer No, there are few left aren't there? Climate deniers will disappear soon enough just like the flat earthers did once somebody sailed around the globe
@OldSchopenhauer Well, you must be talking about actual skeptics, look no further for the scientific community. Scientists by nature all are skeptics. I'm talking about the global warming deniers (oil industry sponsored trolls) that actually aren't deniers, they are just paid to lie every day on youtube that we shouldn't care about the issue. But you do have deniers who are genuine deniers, that is people out in the public who aren't paying attention
@Nightversionn Let me make a request. Can you argue for anthropogenic global warming using evidence?
I don't have any investment in the issue one way or the other, I simply don't care for this style of argumentation. It's nothing but a series of appeals to authority, straw man arguments, and ad hominem attacks.
@Nightversionn Scientists are always skeptics, so being skeptical of them is unskeptical. It is only by unshaken faith in the scientific community and peer review process that one can be a true skeptic! Or else you're just a denialist.
@FreeVonHelton hm? ? If you're a rational person you are a skeptic of everything, there is no unshaken faith in anything. As for science, medicine, frontiers in space travel, and so forth, I will have to go with the scientific consensus, as well as what they have to say about global warming
"As for science, medicine, frontiers in space travel, and so forth, I will have to go with the scientific consensus, as well as what they have to say about global warming"
There is no "consenes" in science abiet in the theoretical ones that have yet to do actual verification and testing
THe COnsenus of the IPCC was a political one,not a scientific one and it was for the purpouse of recommending funding the verification and testing of possible AGW and possible impacts = $10 billion in funding
@FreeVonHelton Also, about deniers, denialism is an intentional ignoring of the truth where the deniers are just looking for whatever angle they find to attack, with a predetermined and fixed stance. Clearly denialism is founded in dishonesty. That shouldn't tolerated in reasoned discourse. It has nothing to do with honest skepticism which all scientists are by definition
It's not like that.There are the more modest scientists who don't jump on the news to say human beings are responsable for climate change and there are those who do, who get a real chunk of money to militate for suprastate green oligarchic institutionalism and policy.The recent discoveries at CERN show how much climate models are fake. The climate is changing, but the cosmos has a bigger impact on Earth than human activity. You don't have to be an "environmentalist" to care about the environment
Arctic sea ice this summer melted to a record low extent or will come a close second, two different research institutes said on Tuesday, confirming a trend which could yield an ice-free summer within a decade.
The global warming that is going on right now is related to the greenhouse gas emissions we are letting out into the atmosphere.
Regardless of what was happening with the Ice Ages or other natural fluctuations, the greenhouse gasses we are dumping into the sky are having an extra effect which is causing things to warm up faster than they would have otherwise.
The notion that humankind has changed the world is not new.
Over a century ago, terms such as the Anthropozoic, Psychozoic, and Noosphere were conceived to denote the idea of humans as a new global forcing agent.
Arctic sea ice is melting at its fastest pace in almost 40 years
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Arctic sea ice has melted to a level not recorded since satellite observations started in 1972 - and almost certainly not experienced for at least 8,000 years, say polar scientists.
311 the World woke up and decided NO NUKES NO FLUKES We ask for the END OF THE NUCLEAR NIGHTMARE ON EARTH.We DEMAND THE END OF TOXIC POWER SYSTEMS ON EARTH. Let us BAN HYDRO FRACKING IN AMERICA as this POISONS MILLIONS OF GALLONS OF WATER Let us DEMAND THE END OF THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL CORPORATE COMPLEX NOW. Let us DEMAND THE END OF ENDLESS WARS ON HUMANKIND Let us DEVELOP IN UNITY the Energy of SOLAR, MAGNETIC, WIND TURBINE,GEO THERMAL& HYDRO KINETIC 4ALL POWER
Humanity needs nuclear energy. The noosphere requires the mastering of nuclear processes in order to literally create resources. We won't be able to bring life to other planets/satelites without nuclear energy.
Even plants cannot help cool earth if CO2 is in excess: Study
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Contrary to the belief that plants could help cool earth, scientists have found that they will directly warm the land surface when there is excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
Low-lying and heavily forested Suriname, which counts itself among the five nations most vulnerable to the effects of climate change, has created the country’s first climate-compatible development agency, aimed at bringing together the country’s ministries to deal with climate challenges.
A record-setting winter in much of the country has been followed by more records: tornadoes, flooding, drought and heat. Climate change is largely to blame, scientists say.
Yet, some how between 1975 and 1998 the warming trend we experienced was magically due to increased c02 emissions, and was not a natural trend in any way. This is quite a leap of faith.
So... let me get this right. Natural warming can bring us from a mini ice age into a warm period which peaked about 1945, then cools for the next 30 years, until magically when it warms again it is almost entirely due to humans.
An ice age would bring ice bergs down as low as Seattle, Washington, mass frozen tundras, limited growing seasons, and bitter cold winters. The mini ice age of Europe and the northern latitudes were renown for their harsh and tough winters where the river in London froze over. But it started to warm up in 1850 (when c02 was low) and by 1940 was comperable to today's climate. Extreme heat waves in the 30's and 40's were recorded in North America especially. This was all natural, not man made.
After we warmed from the last ice age 10,000 years ago, the peak warming seems to have occurred between 8,000 and 4,000 years ago, so during the agricultural and bronze age boom when the first great Human civilizations appeared on the earth, such as Sumer, Akkad, Egypt, the Minoans etc. It may have been considerably warmer than it is today by several deg F.
If anything, a warmer planet is conducive to the health and growth of plants and other organisms. An ice age would be worse.
As Imperiled Walruses Are Forced to Shore by Melting Ice,
Obama Administration Moves Forward With Dangerous Arctic Drilling Plan
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ANCHORAGE, Alaska—Thousands of Pacific walruses have congregated on Alaska’s Chukchi shore as the sea ice they normally rely upon has disappeared. The migration of the walruses onshore in Alaska is reflective of the rapidly changing conditions of the Arctic caused by global warming.
Study questions credentials of climate-change skeptics
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The hundreds of academics who sign warnings for politicians to delay action on slashing greenhouse gas emissions do not have the same expertise as those who say human activity is causing global warming, says a new study to be released in the Proceedings of the U.S. National Academy of Scientists.
"The hundreds of academics ... politicians to delay action...do not have the same expertise as those who say human activity is causing global warming"
No, there are a lot of tlking heads on both sides,but the ones I find interesting are the ones that claimed they were duped by IPCC to sign off on something they didn't neccisarily agree with....Like Christy
SUmmary report for policy makers isn't a "Scientific research paper",it's a memo
IPCC is a UN commitie, not a "Scientific Organization"
I even find the mean global surface temperature to be a joke as well.
There were like 6,000 temperature stations reporting in 1985 globally, and now in 2011 there are barely 1,500 reporting world wide -- and the 75% reduction in temperature stations happened siginficantly in the Russian far east and china. Some of the coldest places on earth.
How could this statistically not effect the average global mean surface temp calculations of the IPCC?
' mean global surface temperature to be a joke as well."
That what happens when University faculty volunteering their time on a political commitie confusesenviromental climate,"The CLimate&weather variability as "the same thing"
Las Vegas is still a Desert "Climate" but it gets down to 30f in winter now cause of "Climate Variability" which can cause local -/+20f swings
"The CLimate" or Average tempature of Earth is currently 15c,gets down to 12c (Ice Age) goes to 18c(Interglaciation peak)
So then, C02 is going to vary considerably in which region, which climate, moisture, and environment, aka desert, lakes, or jungle etc... There are so many variables here it seems way too complex to use something as simplistic as a global "390 ppm" when it is so all over the map given just one location to another.
'There are so many variables here it seems way too complex to use something as simplistic as a global "390 ppm" when it is so all over the map given just one location to another"
Yes and Ibuki and Canx-2 are already showing that the averaging is full of shit
Oh and not coming from human cities but ocean and vegitation "exhales" and "inhales"
There is one where right in the middle of the Amazon the CO2 levels Spike into 500ppm,same for right in the middle of the ocean...no cars or factories
Thanks for all this great info. I was reading the last 3 pages of comments.
Yeah, I think it's clear that the whole global warming agenda is too far removed from people's top list of priorities now that the economy is receding into a slipper mess, and with the food prices, revolutions and wars going on, having a job and putting food on the table is # 1. Voting for more taxes on a non issue is the last thing anyone would with half a cerebrum would do.
"Voting for more taxes on a non issue is the last thing anyone would with half a cerebrum would do."
Politicains love to raise taxes when they think they can fget away with them
Governmen did raises taxes during the 2007 "biofuel Iniative" and Fined "big Oil" and the Environuts cheered....until gas started to climb to $5 a gallo then they got all upset again...lol
Problem with CO2 Tax was Industry demanded tax on actual exhaust measured instead of bullshit EPA estimates & the EPA backed off
I wouldn't doubt if the Pacific north West, and the Redwoods have around 500 ppm, since they have the most biomass and tallest tree forests in the United States according to some of the recent ICEsat, Terra, and Aqua satellites.
I think it's pretty cool they can use Vegetation Canopy Lidar to map trees and forests. That would be a fun job tracking down the world's tallest tree based on millions of data points. They used plane deployed Lidar to find the champion redwoods in 2006.
": wouldn't doubt if the Pacific north West, and the Redwoods have around 500 ppm"
The Equater co2 almost uniformly spikes to 600ishppm during the summer while the co2 near the poles is low and drops even mre during the winter
The most important thing is the ppm is relatively uniform except for co2 gushes from tectonic activity or vegetatian exhaling (plants exhale at night,when they hybernate,when they die)
THere is no spike of co2 over cities during trafic hour noticable(as of yet)
The current Mana Loa site which is the most well known c02 monitoring station, is located on an "active volcano" ... Perhaps we need more stations to accurately monitor co2 ppm to get more independent results as good science would require.
"Sweet. What will the AGW science community do if it shows a rather different reality than their models suggest?"
Soesn't matter
Every country stuptd enough to enact "Cap and trade: and carbon taxes suffered Economically with the US NMOvember 2007 "Cap and Trade" causing the near world economic collapse in October 2008 and the US June "Cap and Trade" caused current world recession
No politican is going to touch the subject with a 10 foot pole,Democrats lost the house for supporting "AGW"
The co2 variances is not concentrated over cities and swings by seasons even over the oceans with high conentration point apearing in the middlke of nowhere away from factories an cars (mother nature farted)
oh and if you notice in the animation overlay, Co2 consentration goes up globally in the summer months then drops in the winter
This is because Co2 is heat sensitive and more of it enters evaporation/ercipitation with warmer conditions bringing it out of it's sinks while colder weather makes it condense and sink back where is came from
When there Is interglaciation the Warming Planet lets more co2 circultate
When Ice ages come Co2 sinks back into it's sinks thus no CO2 in a ICe Age
WALRUSES haul-out three weeks early, global warming blamed
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An extremely early sea ice melt-off has sent thousands of Pacific walruses onto the beaches of NW Alaska, placing pups in danger of being crushed on the crowded shoreline for the fourth year out of the past five due to the abnormal weather conditions.
This year's walrus haul-out..comes a full three weeks earlier than last year's -- a potent symbol, environmental groups say -- that global warming is at work
Oh no. They couldn't possibly have survived the Holocene warming epoch of 8,000 years ago, and they certainly won't survive today's evil temperatures.
It seems that the late Dr. Beck, although some of his research my have been off, has been given quite a cold shoulder by the science community because he dared challenge the proposition that atmospheric c02 was always a neat 270-280 ppm for the past 600,000 years. His readings, even if 1& are reliable, demonstrate 300+ ppm must have occured in the past like we see today -- Without cars and cities causing it.
Green Earth ~ NASA satellite study shows how the Earth has greened over the last 30 years possibly due to the CO2 ( natural fertiliser ) that has benefitted the flora which ultimately benefits the fauna ~ a greenhouse grower boosts CO2 and temperature to do this way above natural levels yet these doomsayers crap themselves because their masters have manipulated their minds to their advantage ~ wake up and smell the BS !! what are you Sheep??
" NASA satellite study shows how the Earth has greened over the last 30 years possibly due to the CO2"
No,the earth core is generating more heat then usual which is causing faster plate tectonics resulting in earthqaukes, more volcanic action, and more warmth enthering the OCeans and air
CO2 comes out with the heat and dislodges from it's deep sea sinks and soil sinks as it gets warmer...its a passenger,nor the cause
Warmer Earth is better for plants,co2 is along for ride
Chomsky wasn't exaggerating when he said the percents, about 98% of climate scientists say global warming is man-made, it's a matter of science not "lets all come in the middle".
You mean 97% of the 24 scientists that head the IPCC? Good lord man. Half of them are under investigation. You don't run science by consensus, you must constantly test, prod, and pinch the claims to their absolute limits, but that's just me. Maybe I'm wrong.
It was a "matter of science" back in the 30's that the Jewish race was inferior to the Aryan Race.... Several million corpses attest to these scientific truths. Margaret Sanger, Georges Vacher de Lapouge, and other racialists were absolutely thrilled with Adolf and his popular science at the time. Consensus science is certainly the way to go. May Lord Gore send his blessings upon thy household to the third generation, Amen.
Eugenics was certainly not the "consensus" among scientists but it was a popular cultural belief. In fact, global warming is the exact opposite, 98% of climatologists know it's real but most regular people don't.
"Glonal Warming: A once popular cultural belief."
Kind of hard to giva a fuck about global warming when you lost your job, the Uneployment office is trying to screw you over, the bank is trying to forclose on your house cause your 3 payments behind,and, most of all, JLO and her Hubby broke up/SNooky's Pregnat/and one of the Jersey shore people died..lol
The News Networks doing a stary on AGW every 20 minutes after AL Gore won Acadamy and Peace priize caused the "Fad"
I actually would still believe in absolute catastrophic anthropogenic global warming had I not heard of climategate and then read more about Al Gore and his video. i just never questioned the science, like most good law abiding Americans, that is until I started reading more and more about the different viewpoints. Obviously I contend there is a human contribution to the increase in c02 in the last century, and that this would add to a warming planet sounds plausible.
' I contend there is a human contribution to the increase in c02 in the last century"
No,
Physics class tends to recite chemical theories whethter or not tested and "Green house gas" is a major doosey that experimental Physics led to the "Zeroth Law" (you can't double a mass in volume to make it asorb more heat then it's maximum threashold)..as in "Zeroth Law" was created in falsifying GHG (but they still ":preach" it)
That Combustion"Creates co2"is also Physics nonsense,it makes heat+force
Also, if I read of C02 measurements going back to the 1800's, although some were inaccurare by 20 to 100 ppm, Dr. Ernst Georg Beck (one of the lesser known scientists) investigated thousands of chemical c02 measuremnets which may suggest C02 wasn't always a "tidy" and neat "280 ppm" without fluctuation as conventional climate change proponents suggest. I can't verify measurements done before 1958, but there were lots of 300 to 400 ppm readings according to his investigation, over places like sea
"Also, if I read of C02 measurements going back to the 1800's, although some were inaccurare by 20 to 100 ppm"
Depending on Where,what time of day,tempature,humidity,elevation,wind speed and tempature co2 parts per million can be anywhere from 0ppm to 900ppm..even more near teconic rifts and volcanos or co2 sinks
Trees eat co2 so ppm drops around them for instance
Anything from 1800-1904? is proxy and based on Ice cores and can only tell you how much was trapped not how much was in enviroment
Good point. So Proxy data from Ice samples have given estimates of 280 ppm. So then, the highly publicized Mana Loa site is probably contaminated by that volcano, and giving readings higher than might be elsewhere?
"I can't verify measurements done before 1958, but there were lots of 300 to 400 ppm readings according to his investigation, over places like sea"
The major amusement that I have with the "PPM" thing is that it only shows how much co2 i riding the Evaporation/percipitation cycle..or in the case of the Ocean,the Ocean Conveyer,not how much there is on earth
If that "390ppm" was accurate,that means there is 1.5trillion ton co2 in air of 5000 trillion atmosphere
If I recall, some have even estimated that the Jurassic and Carboniferous periods (when the earth was covered in jungles and red woods, with high volcanic activity) the earth had 1500 to 3000 CO2 ppm.
Estimates on average surface temps go from 65 to 70 F.
"some have even estimated that the Jurassic and Carboniferous periods (when the earth was covered in jungles and red woods, with high volcanic activity) the earth had 1500 to 3000 CO2 ppm"
The Heat increase was from the thousands of miles of constantly eruting magma from plate points not the CO2 that was also being vented out as a result of "Interglation overpeak".from the core and mantle going absolutly haywire and venting out all that heat
Earth was 20f hotter the Dinosaurs died from Ice Age
"Earth was 20f hotter the Dinosaurs died from Ice Age"
The "COnsensus" by university faculty that a giant meter hitting the earth 65 million years ago not matching geological and antropological records is a perfect example of how consensus can be rooted in bullshit
Geologically there is the "KT BOundry" everywhere in the world you dig
Dinosaur fossils stop 10,000 years before the KT boundry...as in they were extinct before the KT hit...but the "Consensus" now says otherwise(rollseyes)
"That Combustion"Creates co2"is also Physics nonsense,it makes heat+force"
It's another "Chemical Thoery" that is not observed in Chemistry nor Engineering
In the case of the car the gasoline is aerolized into a mist with oxygen and is shot into a piston and then it is compressed and the spark ignites the gasoline mist that causes te force to blow the piston open then the caremelized carbon junk(no o2 to oxidize)left is ejected into the ECM
Interesting. So then, would you agree that it might very well be possible, that C02 readings before 1900 have been cherry picked to represent the lowest average values by modern proponent of Climate change? I mean Dr. beck's research is pretty interesting, even if these are old measurements, they open the mind to other possibilities at least.
"Interesting. So then, would you agree that it might very well be possible, that C02 readings before 1900 have been cherry picke"
no,that ie Doesn't matter at all
These "experts" actually believe that 1.5 triliion tons of co2(500 billion tons of that supposedly "added by humans)in 5000 trillion tons of air cans cause warming in that air and cause the 300 million trillion tons of ocean to heat 2 degrees
"Climate" is regulated by Earth's core emmisions,not co2 leaving sinks cause of warming
Oh wow. Thank you for conveying the numbers to me. The math doesn't add up at all... our alleged 500 billion ton addition making 300 million trillion tons heat 2 deg... That is a stretch.
"A true American classic, almost as renown as the Tucker"
No
ucker just had trouble getting financing to go big
GM Volt got the President of the US that took over GW and gacve the Company to the Unions and put millions onto it's development and even shut down domestic drilling and making coal more expensive as well to drive the cost of gas up to make the Electric Vehicle look more apealing and,still,the majority of people dont want the nearly $70,000 glorified golf cart
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A congressman just stated on CSPAN that the co2 level's are higher then they where 15,000,000 million years
ago, and that at that time we lost almost all the ice. They state 75 to120 feet of water was added to the ocean.
This is at the door beloved right now. add holes in the Ozone, on and on. we
got big problems kids. hugs LUVBUG
Read my blog on Global Warming: globalwarmingtimes.blogspot.com
livingproofof 1 week ago
More evidence/impacts of climate change series..
(Please also READ before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)..
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Manitoba chiefs declare emergency over ice road delays
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Northern Manitoba aboriginal leaders have declared a state of emergency over delays in the opening of winter roads, and blamed weeks of sustained warm weather "caused by climate change" for the delays. They are also upset about "continuing political inaction."
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Postmedia News
12 January 2012
Nightversionn 2 weeks ago
More evidence/impacts of climate change series..
(PLEASE READ before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)..
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Florida counties band together to ready for warming's effects
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While U.S. action on climate change remains stalled, four south Florida counties have joined forces to plan for how to deal with the impacts, some of which are already being felt. of rising seas, higher temperatures, and more torrential rains.
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Yale Environment 360
12 January 2012
Nightversionn 2 weeks ago
Noam 'New World Order' Chomsky. Notice how he never once actually talks about climatology. He hasn't a clue about it.
'The climate is warming (no it isn't), so we should shut down all industry in the West and ship it to China and India. And we should have carbon taxes and cap and trade (Goldman Sachs) schemes.'
That'll save the earth.
historypoliticsbb 2 weeks ago
More evidence/impacts of climate change series..Nature Journal edition:
(Please read article before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts is allowed to censor it)..
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Thawing permafrost reduces river runoff
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Chinese researchers have revealed that the amount of water entering the Yangtze River near its source on the Tibetan plateau has fallen by 15% over the past four decades, despite a 15% increase in glacial melt and increased rainfall over the same period.
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Nature
7 January 2012
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More evidence/impacts of climate change series..
(PLEASE read article before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts is allowed to censor it)..
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Climate change makes life harder for baby harp seals
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Warming in the North Atlantic Ocean has decreased winter sea ice and increased the death rate for baby harp seals over the past three decades, according to a new study.
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ClimateWire
6 January 2012
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More evidence/impacts of climate change series..
(Please read article before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)..
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Prehistoric bones: A cottage industry in Siberia
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Siberia’s permafrost, which has held the remains of predators and herbivores alike in an epochal deep freeze, is beginning to melt. And the bones of prehistoric rhinos, bison, reindeer, horses – and yes, mammoths – are rising to Yakutia’s surface at an amazing rate. .
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NBC Nightly News
5 January 2012
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More evidence/impacts of climate change series..
(Please read article before the denier censors it)..
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Insurers: Record year for federal disasters linked to climate change, political pressure
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Last year's record for federal disasters in Connecticut was part of a rising worldwide natural catastrophe trend that's caused in part by climate change, insurance groups reported Wednesday.
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Hartford Courant, Connecticut
5 January 2012
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More evidence/impacts of climate change series...(please read article before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)..
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Environment world review of the year: '2011 rewrote the record books.'
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The ecologically tumultuous year saw record greenhouse gas emissions, melting Arctic sea ice, natural disasters and extreme weather – and the world's second worst nuclear disaster.
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London Guardian, United Kingdom
24 December 2011
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More evidence/impacts of climate change series...(please read article before thedenier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)..
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Philippine flooding disaster foretold 3 years ago
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The tragedy that struck the cities of Cagayan de Oro and Iligan was an event waiting to happen. Massive flooding was foretold three years ago, but was dismissed by lawmakers as “too alarmist.”
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Philippine Daily Inquirer, Philippines
20 December 2011
Nightversionn 2 months ago
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More evidence/impacts of climate change series (please read article before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)
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World's poor pay for PM's policies
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The Harper government, working arm-in-arm with international oil interests, has done its best to sabotage a process aimed at preventing the catastrophic climate impacts that particularly threaten the world’s most vulnerable people: food and water shortages, crop reductions, flooding and loss of land
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Toronto Star
12 /20/11
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More evidence/impacts of climate change series...(Please read it before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)..
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Climate is warming despite 'ups and downs.'
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Periodic short-term cooling in global temperatures should not be misinterpreted as signalling an end to global warming, according to an Honorary Research Fellow with CSIRO Marine and Atmospheric Research, Barrie Hunt.
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Merimbula News Weekly, Australia
31 December 2010
Nightversionn 2 months ago
More evidence/impacts of climate change series...(read it before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)..
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Coal mega-mines a 'global threat'
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The development of coal ''mega-mines'' in central Queensland, such as the massive China First project, will destroy the world's chance of keeping global warming to 2 degrees, the environmental group Greenpeace claims.
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Sydney Morning Herald, Australia
18 December 2011
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More evidence/impacts of climate change series...(read it before the denier with all the sock puppet accounts censors it)..
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2011 science news of the year
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Some of the year’s revelations were downright unnerving: Sea level is rising at an accelerating rate and Arctic ice cover continues its long-term decline. But there are reasons for optimism, too.
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Science News
19 December 2011
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Evidence / impacts of climate change series...(read it before the denier with all the sock puppet channels tries to censor it)..
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Fish can be bred to cope with warmer seas
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Some tropical fish may be able to cope with rising sea temperatures better than previously thought, Australian scientists have discovered.
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Australian Associated Press
6 December 2011
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Evidence / impacts of climate change series...
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Jerry Brown blasts GOP on climate change
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Gov. Jerry Brown, a Democrat, had the Republican Party - and the 2012 presidential race - in his sights Thursday when he blasted what he called the "skepticism, the denial and the cult-like behavior of political lemmings that would take us over the cliff" on the key issue of climate change.
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San Francisco Chronicle, California 16 December 2011
Nightversionn 2 months ago
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Evidence / impacts of climate change series...(read it before the denier with all the sock puppet channels tries to censor it)..
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Discrimination in climate negotiations reminiscent of apartheid
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When developed countries demand equal action from developing states on emissions cuts, they perpetuate the spoils of 200 years of exploitation.
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Cairo Al Ahram, Egypt
Opinion, 30 November 2011
Nightversionn 2 months ago
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Evidence/impacts of climate change series...
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As permafrost thaws, scientists study the risks
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A recent estimate suggests that permafrost, which underlies nearly a quarter of the Northern Hemisphere, contains twice as much carbon as the entire atmosphere. Temperatures are warming across much of the region and signs are emerging that the frozen carbon may be becoming unstable.
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New York Times
17 December 2011
Nightversionn 2 months ago
Evidence / impacts of climate change series:
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Quebec to start emission caps as Canada exits pact
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The province of Quebec announced Thursday the launch of a carbon emissions cap-and-trade system in 2012, days after Canada became the only country to ratify and then withdraw from the Kyoto Protocol.
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France-Presse
16 December 2011
Nightversionn 2 months ago
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Evidence / impacts of climate change series...(read it before the denier with all the sock puppet channels censors it)...
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Governor vows to prepare California for climate change
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The United Nations' top climate official joined California Governor Jerry Brown on Thursday to call for renewed efforts in the state to more quickly adapt to the risks that extreme weather and a rising sea pose to agriculture and the coastline.
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Associated Press
16 December 2011
Nightversionn 2 months ago
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Climate change in the news...(this one is particularly interesting)...
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You get what you pay for (except ...).
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It was a story delicious in its irony. The Koch brothers, the tea party funders whose big money is being splashed around to distort the course of American policymaking, didn't get what they paid for.
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Daily Astorian, Oregon
Editorial, 4 November 2011
Nightversionn 2 months ago
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Al Gore's climate scientist studies have shown that capitalist countries CO2 emissions, are 1000000 times more harmful than CO2 emissions from communist countries like China
JoeJohn90 2 months ago
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Nightversionn 2 months ago
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News: Time for court edition:
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As climate cases surge, is it time for a climate court?
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Pleas to set up an international climate court were frequently voiced at this week's climate talks in Durban.
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Radio Netherlands, Netherlands
Opinion, 10 December 2011
Nightversionn 2 months ago
Science news...Nature Journal:
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Three-quarters of climate change is man-made
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Natural climate variability is extremely unlikely to have contributed more than about one-quarter of the temperature rise observed in the past 60 years, reports a pair of Swiss climate modellers in a paper published online today.
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Nature
5 December 2011
Nightversionn 2 months ago
Entire enormous bodies of water have evaporated...there are already scarcity of clean water in the US...Ive witnesses two tornadoes in my town in NY where tornadoes never happened before....I cant remember the last time a storm didnt put us in emergency status. Its ridiculous that the uninformed population is so easily convinced through propoganda put out by oil comps. someone posted a site denying GW..I looked up all the chairpeople who put it together...they were ALL lobbyists for oil
barbcinque 2 months ago
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@barbcinque It's like that where I live too, you can't predict the volatility in the weather, you just know it's not the same as it used to be. It's hard on people and the animals as well who have to scramble.
There is a full-time oil troll on this website and probably all the others who posts with thousands of denier sock puppet accounts. Some people actually might think they are all different people. It is disgusting beyond any words I can think of (see below and you will see some of them)
Nightversionn 2 months ago
I Don't think Noam and BIlly here actually understand the nitty gtriiy of GHG THeory if it were true.
WRight now it is believed hat co2 % controls tempature and current CO2 Level is 390ppm while tempature is still down with 150 year ago c02 levels on the gaph
Phil Jones data says tempature is now 1 degree abouve 282ppm CO2
When tempatures match 323ppm or 6f degrees hotter then now dwe are extinct and when tempature matches 390ppm humans are long gone
IF ghg teory was true,its over aready
TheRealArchAngel 2 months ago
@TheRealArchAngel I'll take scientists and Noam Chomsky over your denier gibberish any day, duh?
Nightversionn 2 months ago
"I'll take scientists and Noam Chomsky over your denier gibberish any day, duh?"
But the Sceientists, even the one on the IPCC are actually saying the same thing I am saying
What the Media,Al Gore,UN, and the BLogasphere is saying the Scientists are saying is Hyped up AGW Meme nonesence, not actuall science or what the Scientists actually said
Especially pay attention to the Scientists that thing the IPCC opinion is to optimistic if AGW Theory were true (It's actually over,we are dead)
TheRealArchAngel 2 months ago
"Especially pay attention to the Scientists that thing the IPCC opinion is to optimistic if AGW Theory were true (It's actually over,we are dead)"
Specifically Phil Jones founf +1f o\ver the current tempature match with CO2 at 282ppm
If AGW theory is true then during the suns 11 year cycle of heading to maximus the tempature will climb to match extinction causing 6f degrees hotter at 323ppm co2 and humans will be long gone when tempatures math 390ppm at +12f..tax,green tech, and policy(aside)
TheRealArchAngel 2 months ago
Evidence / impacts of climate change series:
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Science not politics must drive Durban climate talks: IPCC chief
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Global climate talks need to focus on the growing threat from extreme weather and shift away from political squabbles that hobble progress toward a tougher pact to rein in greenhouse gas emissions, the head of the U.N. climate panel said.
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Reuters
23 November 2011
Nightversionn 3 months ago
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Evidence / impacts of climate change series:
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Massive oyster die-offs show ocean acidification has arrived
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The acidification of the world’s oceans from an excess of CO2 emissions has already begun, as evidenced recently by the widespread mortality of oyster larvae in the Pacific Northwest. Scientists say this is just a harbinger of things to come if greenhouse gas emissions continue to soar.
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Yale Environment 360
22 November 2011
Nightversionn 3 months ago
Climate change news...for those interested...
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Climate vulnerability
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The Climate Vulnerable Forum includes small island states vulnerable to extreme weather and sea level rise, countries with immense spans of low-lying coastline, such as Vietnam and Bangladesh, and dry nations of East Africa. The forum is currently holding a meeting in Bangladesh, with UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon as the keynote speaker.
. Fiji Times, Fiji
15 November 2011
Nightversionn 3 months ago
@Nightversionn They fly all over the world burning fuel so idiots like you will pay higher fuel taxes. And apart from islands that literally have sunk, the GIS satellite has seen oceans dropping for the past three years. There is no argument, the theory, politics and lies are over.
m1aws 3 months ago
99% of the Scientist?
250 people on the IPCC, only 14 Scientists, only 3 of those "climatologists" do not 99% of "scientists make"
Dissing Meterologists that follow the evaporation/percipitation cycle from the heat raising from the surface and DISAPAQTING as wind and cooling of moisture in evaporation as it reaches the colder upper troposphere and turn to clouds with further heat disapation making rain,thunder and lightning as not knowing what they are talking abou by a Philosipher is funny
TheRealArchAngel 3 months ago
The concensus once was that the world was flat. This is nothing more than propaganda and lies. I would even doubt that there is any scientific consensus of man made global warming at all apart from the gravy train climate scientists. The facts are that our planet is cooling abruptly and deeply as the effect of the cold PDO,low Sun activity and increased volcanic activity feed into the climate system. Co2 is a harmless atmospheric trace gas which is heavier than air and tends to hug the ground.
david222444 3 months ago
All the recent studies confirm global warming is happening and it's being accelerated by mankind.
Don't anyone believe the oil industry trolls that are full-time on youtube saying otherwise
Nightversionn 3 months ago
"All the recent studies confirm global warming is happening and it's being accelerated by mankind."
Really?
Then why has the UN abandoned AGW and is now trying to get taxation and policy powers via "Overpopulation = stain of resources" bullshhit whil they have basically left IPCC to coast into nonexistance/obscurity after obama gave economic policy powers to the World Bank and not UN?
There is also the problem that politicans,especially the demorat ones,wont touch AGW after Nov 2010's fleecing
TheRealArchAngel 3 months ago
@Nightversionn Can you do maths? CO2 affects <7% of the light bandwidth, at 50% of absorption. These bands are approx 10Db down so approx 10% amplitude. IPCC agree 8% of the Earths CO2 is man released CO2.
So, 0.07*0.5*0.1*0.08 = the influence man has on AGW. 0.028%. Now lets add that to the av. 20C Earth air temp. so we add 0.036C to the very generous 20C.
Now grow up and get a life.
m1aws 3 months ago
@m1aws Listen denier sock o puppet, I don't need to do the "maths" This is what we have SCIENTISTS for. So we don't have to reinvent the wheel each time we need specialized knowledge,
duh?
Nightversionn 3 months ago
@Nightversionn Many better people than I have labelled me a scientist. Being an engineer I've always hated that sloppy description.
Wipe your bum, pull your nappy up and get mummy to adjust your pin.
The maths are inarguable. If simple sums are not for you, the proofs all around. No tropo warming, no high temps over Venus' atmosphere at one bar, no heat retention on Mars. No positive feedback from historically high CO2 and the Vostock core readings show CO2 follows heating before CO2 release.
m1aws 3 months ago
@m1aws No, you are an oil troll sock puppet, the same person who spreads well-funded oil industry propaganda all over this website under different user names
Nightversionn 3 months ago
@Nightversionn Said the deluded idiot troll sock puppet. There is nobody as green as me. I'm a well insulated skrimp and I despise Governments and drive a 60mpg car. Well, ok, its not a small car,,, just... modified. :)
So what's YOUR beef? Lost the argument so resort to name calling? Thats saaaad!
m1aws 3 months ago
@m1aws Well, you're repeating well-funded oil industry talking points, and that's not green now is it?
Nightversionn 3 months ago
@Nightversionn Nobody is funding me but my pension and my investments. Occasionally my hobbies. If you think I'm funded by oil industry I can easily say that of your position. I'm surrounded by kids who still believe in the accuracy of the written word but only from selected sources. I'm astounded on the long term predictability of our GW and the trends being so accurate while the IPCC keep altering their hockey sticks and their masters taxing the people.
Yet you call me for following a line?
m1aws 3 months ago
@m1aws I'm not name-calling. It is a statement of fact, deal.
Nightversionn 3 months ago
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The following organizations agree that the evidence for anthropogenic
global warming is overwhelming:
United States National Academy of Sciences
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies
Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists
British Royal Society, British Meteorological Office
The UK Met Office
MIT, UCLA, Columbia, Etc..Etc…
Nightversionn 3 months ago
etc..
Nightversionn 3 months ago
I like how an anarchist tries to discredit a theory as being fringe.
OldSchopenhauer 4 months ago
@OldSchopenhauer Actually, he's upholding the obvious theory of climate change, which is represented by science
Nightversionn 3 months ago
@Nightversionn Except there are no actual "climate change denialists".
At any rate, the position should be argued with evidence and not an appeal to authority. I'm rather tired of people resorting to fallacious arguments like "All the scientific authorities agree with this position (except the ones that don't, but they're nutjobs that don't count), and only madmen would ever debate the consensus." Use evidence, not herd mentality.
OldSchopenhauer 3 months ago
@OldSchopenhauer No, there are few left aren't there? Climate deniers will disappear soon enough just like the flat earthers did once somebody sailed around the globe
Nightversionn 3 months ago
@Nightversionn Oh, so now they're just "climate deniers". People that don't believe in climate. I got you. ; )
OldSchopenhauer 3 months ago
@OldSchopenhauer Well, you must be talking about actual skeptics, look no further for the scientific community. Scientists by nature all are skeptics. I'm talking about the global warming deniers (oil industry sponsored trolls) that actually aren't deniers, they are just paid to lie every day on youtube that we shouldn't care about the issue. But you do have deniers who are genuine deniers, that is people out in the public who aren't paying attention
Nightversionn 3 months ago
@Nightversionn Let me make a request. Can you argue for anthropogenic global warming using evidence?
I don't have any investment in the issue one way or the other, I simply don't care for this style of argumentation. It's nothing but a series of appeals to authority, straw man arguments, and ad hominem attacks.
OldSchopenhauer 3 months ago
@OldSchopenhauer Why don't you read up on the NASA link? Or you just want to argue endlessly like deniers do. It's not ad hom, you are a denier
Nightversionn 3 months ago
@Nightversionn I never even denied climate change.
Which articles would you suggest?
OldSchopenhauer 3 months ago
@OldSchopenhauer cool
Nightversionn 3 months ago
@Nightversionn Scientists are always skeptics, so being skeptical of them is unskeptical. It is only by unshaken faith in the scientific community and peer review process that one can be a true skeptic! Or else you're just a denialist.
FreeVonHelton 3 months ago
@FreeVonHelton hm? ? If you're a rational person you are a skeptic of everything, there is no unshaken faith in anything. As for science, medicine, frontiers in space travel, and so forth, I will have to go with the scientific consensus, as well as what they have to say about global warming
Nightversionn 3 months ago
"As for science, medicine, frontiers in space travel, and so forth, I will have to go with the scientific consensus, as well as what they have to say about global warming"
There is no "consenes" in science abiet in the theoretical ones that have yet to do actual verification and testing
THe COnsenus of the IPCC was a political one,not a scientific one and it was for the purpouse of recommending funding the verification and testing of possible AGW and possible impacts = $10 billion in funding
TheRealArchAngel 3 months ago
@FreeVonHelton Also, about deniers, denialism is an intentional ignoring of the truth where the deniers are just looking for whatever angle they find to attack, with a predetermined and fixed stance. Clearly denialism is founded in dishonesty. That shouldn't tolerated in reasoned discourse. It has nothing to do with honest skepticism which all scientists are by definition
Nightversionn 3 months ago
It's not like that.There are the more modest scientists who don't jump on the news to say human beings are responsable for climate change and there are those who do, who get a real chunk of money to militate for suprastate green oligarchic institutionalism and policy.The recent discoveries at CERN show how much climate models are fake. The climate is changing, but the cosmos has a bigger impact on Earth than human activity. You don't have to be an "environmentalist" to care about the environment
Zamolxx 3 months ago
@OldSchopenhauer All the institutions agree. Take just one, NASA
.
Google NASA, the evidence of climate change (NASA dot gov)
Nightversionn 3 months ago
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Nightversionn 5 months ago
Evidence / impacts of climate change series:
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Summer Arctic sea ice melt at or near record
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Arctic sea ice this summer melted to a record low extent or will come a close second, two different research institutes said on Tuesday, confirming a trend which could yield an ice-free summer within a decade.
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Reuters
14 September 2011
Nightversionn 5 months ago 23
@Nightversionn Reuters lie, people die.
m1aws 3 months ago
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Evidence / impacts of climate change series:
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Arctic sea ice level hits record low
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The Arctic sea ice has reached a record historical low point on Sept. 8th, since satellite observations began in 1972.
Global warming is melting the Arctic ice cap in a much higher speed than scientists had predicted, despite a rainy and cold summer.
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IBS 13 September 2011
Nightversionn 5 months ago
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The global warming that is going on right now is related to the greenhouse gas emissions we are letting out into the atmosphere.
Regardless of what was happening with the Ice Ages or other natural fluctuations, the greenhouse gasses we are dumping into the sky are having an extra effect which is causing things to warm up faster than they would have otherwise.
Nightversionn 5 months ago
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Evidence/impacts of climate change
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The new world of the Anthropocene
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The notion that humankind has changed the world is not new.
Over a century ago, terms such as the Anthropozoic, Psychozoic, and Noosphere were conceived to denote the idea of humans as a new global forcing agent.
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Environmental Science & Technology
1 April 2010
Nightversionn 5 months ago
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Evidence / impacts of climate change series:
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Arctic sea ice is melting at its fastest pace in almost 40 years
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Arctic sea ice has melted to a level not recorded since satellite observations started in 1972 - and almost certainly not experienced for at least 8,000 years, say polar scientists.
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London Guardian, United Kingdom
12 September 2011
Nightversionn 5 months ago
I did years of research and Al Gore has no penis. Many don't believe it, but they are just in penile denile. Or penisers if you wish......
RagnarOdinsson 5 months ago
311 the World woke up and decided NO NUKES NO FLUKES We ask for the END OF THE NUCLEAR NIGHTMARE ON EARTH.We DEMAND THE END OF TOXIC POWER SYSTEMS ON EARTH. Let us BAN HYDRO FRACKING IN AMERICA as this POISONS MILLIONS OF GALLONS OF WATER Let us DEMAND THE END OF THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL CORPORATE COMPLEX NOW. Let us DEMAND THE END OF ENDLESS WARS ON HUMANKIND Let us DEVELOP IN UNITY the Energy of SOLAR, MAGNETIC, WIND TURBINE,GEO THERMAL& HYDRO KINETIC 4ALL POWER
OnenessNow 5 months ago 27
Humanity needs nuclear energy. The noosphere requires the mastering of nuclear processes in order to literally create resources. We won't be able to bring life to other planets/satelites without nuclear energy.
Zamolxx 3 months ago
The recent discoveries at CERN show how much climate models have nothing to do with reality. (they are arbitrarily created and propagated).
Zamolxx 3 months ago
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Evidence / impacts of climate change series:
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Even plants cannot help cool earth if CO2 is in excess: Study
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Contrary to the belief that plants could help cool earth, scientists have found that they will directly warm the land surface when there is excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
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Press Trust of India
17 May 2010
Nightversionn 6 months ago
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Evidence / impacts of climate change series:
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Suriname addresses climate threat with new agency
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Low-lying and heavily forested Suriname, which counts itself among the five nations most vulnerable to the effects of climate change, has created the country’s first climate-compatible development agency, aimed at bringing together the country’s ministries to deal with climate challenges.
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Reuters
25 August 2011
Nightversionn 6 months ago
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Evidence / impacts of climate change series…
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Nation's weather extremes may be the new normal
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A record-setting winter in much of the country has been followed by more records: tornadoes, flooding, drought and heat. Climate change is largely to blame, scientists say.
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Los Angeles Times, California
24 August 2011
Nightversionn 6 months ago
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Nightversionn 6 months ago
Yet, some how between 1975 and 1998 the warming trend we experienced was magically due to increased c02 emissions, and was not a natural trend in any way. This is quite a leap of faith.
So... let me get this right. Natural warming can bring us from a mini ice age into a warm period which peaked about 1945, then cools for the next 30 years, until magically when it warms again it is almost entirely due to humans.
I don't buy it folks... "Consensus" or not.
rephaim23 6 months ago
An ice age would bring ice bergs down as low as Seattle, Washington, mass frozen tundras, limited growing seasons, and bitter cold winters. The mini ice age of Europe and the northern latitudes were renown for their harsh and tough winters where the river in London froze over. But it started to warm up in 1850 (when c02 was low) and by 1940 was comperable to today's climate. Extreme heat waves in the 30's and 40's were recorded in North America especially. This was all natural, not man made.
rephaim23 6 months ago
After we warmed from the last ice age 10,000 years ago, the peak warming seems to have occurred between 8,000 and 4,000 years ago, so during the agricultural and bronze age boom when the first great Human civilizations appeared on the earth, such as Sumer, Akkad, Egypt, the Minoans etc. It may have been considerably warmer than it is today by several deg F.
If anything, a warmer planet is conducive to the health and growth of plants and other organisms. An ice age would be worse.
rephaim23 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Evidence / impacts of climate change series:
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As Imperiled Walruses Are Forced to Shore by Melting Ice,
Obama Administration Moves Forward With Dangerous Arctic Drilling Plan
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ANCHORAGE, Alaska—Thousands of Pacific walruses have congregated on Alaska’s Chukchi shore as the sea ice they normally rely upon has disappeared. The migration of the walruses onshore in Alaska is reflective of the rapidly changing conditions of the Arctic caused by global warming.
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CBD press release
18 August 2011
Nightversionn 6 months ago
Evidence / impacts of climate change series: .
Study questions credentials of climate-change skeptics
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The hundreds of academics who sign warnings for politicians to delay action on slashing greenhouse gas emissions do not have the same expertise as those who say human activity is causing global warming, says a new study to be released in the Proceedings of the U.S. National Academy of Scientists.
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Canwest News Service
22 June 2010
Nightversionn 6 months ago
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Nightversionn 6 months ago
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Nightversionn 6 months ago
"The hundreds of academics ... politicians to delay action...do not have the same expertise as those who say human activity is causing global warming"
No, there are a lot of tlking heads on both sides,but the ones I find interesting are the ones that claimed they were duped by IPCC to sign off on something they didn't neccisarily agree with....Like Christy
SUmmary report for policy makers isn't a "Scientific research paper",it's a memo
IPCC is a UN commitie, not a "Scientific Organization"
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
I even find the mean global surface temperature to be a joke as well.
There were like 6,000 temperature stations reporting in 1985 globally, and now in 2011 there are barely 1,500 reporting world wide -- and the 75% reduction in temperature stations happened siginficantly in the Russian far east and china. Some of the coldest places on earth.
How could this statistically not effect the average global mean surface temp calculations of the IPCC?
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
' mean global surface temperature to be a joke as well."
That what happens when University faculty volunteering their time on a political commitie confusesenviromental climate,"The CLimate&weather variability as "the same thing"
Las Vegas is still a Desert "Climate" but it gets down to 30f in winter now cause of "Climate Variability" which can cause local -/+20f swings
"The CLimate" or Average tempature of Earth is currently 15c,gets down to 12c (Ice Age) goes to 18c(Interglaciation peak)
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
So then, C02 is going to vary considerably in which region, which climate, moisture, and environment, aka desert, lakes, or jungle etc... There are so many variables here it seems way too complex to use something as simplistic as a global "390 ppm" when it is so all over the map given just one location to another.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
'There are so many variables here it seems way too complex to use something as simplistic as a global "390 ppm" when it is so all over the map given just one location to another"
Yes and Ibuki and Canx-2 are already showing that the averaging is full of shit
Oh and not coming from human cities but ocean and vegitation "exhales" and "inhales"
There is one where right in the middle of the Amazon the CO2 levels Spike into 500ppm,same for right in the middle of the ocean...no cars or factories
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
@TheRealArchAngel
Thanks for all this great info. I was reading the last 3 pages of comments.
Yeah, I think it's clear that the whole global warming agenda is too far removed from people's top list of priorities now that the economy is receding into a slipper mess, and with the food prices, revolutions and wars going on, having a job and putting food on the table is # 1. Voting for more taxes on a non issue is the last thing anyone would with half a cerebrum would do.
rephaim23 6 months ago
"Voting for more taxes on a non issue is the last thing anyone would with half a cerebrum would do."
Politicains love to raise taxes when they think they can fget away with them
Governmen did raises taxes during the 2007 "biofuel Iniative" and Fined "big Oil" and the Environuts cheered....until gas started to climb to $5 a gallo then they got all upset again...lol
Problem with CO2 Tax was Industry demanded tax on actual exhaust measured instead of bullshit EPA estimates & the EPA backed off
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
I wouldn't doubt if the Pacific north West, and the Redwoods have around 500 ppm, since they have the most biomass and tallest tree forests in the United States according to some of the recent ICEsat, Terra, and Aqua satellites.
I think it's pretty cool they can use Vegetation Canopy Lidar to map trees and forests. That would be a fun job tracking down the world's tallest tree based on millions of data points. They used plane deployed Lidar to find the champion redwoods in 2006.
rephaim23 6 months ago
": wouldn't doubt if the Pacific north West, and the Redwoods have around 500 ppm"
The Equater co2 almost uniformly spikes to 600ishppm during the summer while the co2 near the poles is low and drops even mre during the winter
The most important thing is the ppm is relatively uniform except for co2 gushes from tectonic activity or vegetatian exhaling (plants exhale at night,when they hybernate,when they die)
THere is no spike of co2 over cities during trafic hour noticable(as of yet)
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
The current Mana Loa site which is the most well known c02 monitoring station, is located on an "active volcano" ... Perhaps we need more stations to accurately monitor co2 ppm to get more independent results as good science would require.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
"Perhaps we need more stations to accurately monitor co2 ppm to get more independent results as good science would require."
The Real Scientists trying to verify the Consensus of OPpinion/hypothises have done 1 better
Ibuki, launched January 2009 will sample 100,000 points on earth until 2013
Canx-2,launched November 2009,also is sampling co2 from 100,000 point on earth
Together as apart of the "A-Train" they will generateda a real world co2 map to compare to "Climate model" ones
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
@TheRealArchAngel
Sweet. What will the AGW science community do if it shows a rather different reality than their models suggest?
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
"Sweet. What will the AGW science community do if it shows a rather different reality than their models suggest?"
Soesn't matter
Every country stuptd enough to enact "Cap and trade: and carbon taxes suffered Economically with the US NMOvember 2007 "Cap and Trade" causing the near world economic collapse in October 2008 and the US June "Cap and Trade" caused current world recession
No politican is going to touch the subject with a 10 foot pole,Democrats lost the house for supporting "AGW"
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
Launch missiles at the satellites to bring them down?
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
"Launch missiles at the satellites to bring them down?"
lol
IGood luck considering a lot of the "A-Train" sattilites are tiny compared to their outdated brethere bing the size of a house.
THink they put Ibuki in space with a model rocket cause of it's size (lol,overexageration)
Canx-2 was a college project,if I remember correctly (as in college kids built the thing from "off the shelf parts") and is likewise small
Lucky 2 about this "demodulizatio"
NASA OCO is "missing"("misfire")
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
@TheRealArchAnge
When are the results of these data sets scheduled to be published?
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
data(dot)gosat(dot)nies(dot)go(dot)jp/GosatBrowseImage/browseImage/XCO2_L3(dot)gif
The co2 variances is not concentrated over cities and swings by seasons even over the oceans with high conentration point apearing in the middlke of nowhere away from factories an cars (mother nature farted)
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
oh and if you notice in the animation overlay, Co2 consentration goes up globally in the summer months then drops in the winter
This is because Co2 is heat sensitive and more of it enters evaporation/ercipitation with warmer conditions bringing it out of it's sinks while colder weather makes it condense and sink back where is came from
When there Is interglaciation the Warming Planet lets more co2 circultate
When Ice ages come Co2 sinks back into it's sinks thus no CO2 in a ICe Age
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
News:
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WALRUSES haul-out three weeks early, global warming blamed
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An extremely early sea ice melt-off has sent thousands of Pacific walruses onto the beaches of NW Alaska, placing pups in danger of being crushed on the crowded shoreline for the fourth year out of the past five due to the abnormal weather conditions.
This year's walrus haul-out..comes a full three weeks earlier than last year's -- a potent symbol, environmental groups say -- that global warming is at work
Nightversionn 6 months ago
@Nightversionn
Oh no. They couldn't possibly have survived the Holocene warming epoch of 8,000 years ago, and they certainly won't survive today's evil temperatures.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
It seems that the late Dr. Beck, although some of his research my have been off, has been given quite a cold shoulder by the science community because he dared challenge the proposition that atmospheric c02 was always a neat 270-280 ppm for the past 600,000 years. His readings, even if 1& are reliable, demonstrate 300+ ppm must have occured in the past like we see today -- Without cars and cities causing it.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
Real world observation and verifiable tests and measurements of physical systems are always extremely important when conducting science.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
Green Earth ~ NASA satellite study shows how the Earth has greened over the last 30 years possibly due to the CO2 ( natural fertiliser ) that has benefitted the flora which ultimately benefits the fauna ~ a greenhouse grower boosts CO2 and temperature to do this way above natural levels yet these doomsayers crap themselves because their masters have manipulated their minds to their advantage ~ wake up and smell the BS !! what are you Sheep??
NarkMobes 6 months ago
" NASA satellite study shows how the Earth has greened over the last 30 years possibly due to the CO2"
No,the earth core is generating more heat then usual which is causing faster plate tectonics resulting in earthqaukes, more volcanic action, and more warmth enthering the OCeans and air
CO2 comes out with the heat and dislodges from it's deep sea sinks and soil sinks as it gets warmer...its a passenger,nor the cause
Warmer Earth is better for plants,co2 is along for ride
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
But we know the sun has no real effect on the earth's warming and cooling cycles, so let's put that aside for now.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
So much for Noam Chomsky.
Too bad, he's done some good work in other areas.
FantasticBob7000 6 months ago
Thanks to Noam Chomsky on some important insights into the issue
Nightversionn 6 months ago
Climate science has become the Vatican. Al Gore is the Pope. Do not question. Conform.
At the same time you have actors like Palin and Limbaugh who pee on all scientific logic. That's an absolutist outlook Chomsky is promoting.
Reality tends to be gray.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
@GarfoyleZanderfield
Chomsky wasn't exaggerating when he said the percents, about 98% of climate scientists say global warming is man-made, it's a matter of science not "lets all come in the middle".
AndroidPolitician 6 months ago
@AndroidPolitician
You mean 97% of the 24 scientists that head the IPCC? Good lord man. Half of them are under investigation. You don't run science by consensus, you must constantly test, prod, and pinch the claims to their absolute limits, but that's just me. Maybe I'm wrong.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
@GarfoyleZanderfield
No I mean out of a sample of about a thousand climate scientists.
AndroidPolitician 6 months ago
@AndroidPolitician
Oh, then I am wrong.
It was a "matter of science" back in the 30's that the Jewish race was inferior to the Aryan Race.... Several million corpses attest to these scientific truths. Margaret Sanger, Georges Vacher de Lapouge, and other racialists were absolutely thrilled with Adolf and his popular science at the time. Consensus science is certainly the way to go. May Lord Gore send his blessings upon thy household to the third generation, Amen.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
@GarfoyleZanderfield
Eugenics was certainly not the "consensus" among scientists but it was a popular cultural belief. In fact, global warming is the exact opposite, 98% of climatologists know it's real but most regular people don't.
AndroidPolitician 6 months ago
@AndroidPolitician
Glonal Warming: A once popular cultural belief.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
"Glonal Warming: A once popular cultural belief."
Kind of hard to giva a fuck about global warming when you lost your job, the Uneployment office is trying to screw you over, the bank is trying to forclose on your house cause your 3 payments behind,and, most of all, JLO and her Hubby broke up/SNooky's Pregnat/and one of the Jersey shore people died..lol
The News Networks doing a stary on AGW every 20 minutes after AL Gore won Acadamy and Peace priize caused the "Fad"
Then "Bank Crises" came
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
@TheRealArchAngel
I actually would still believe in absolute catastrophic anthropogenic global warming had I not heard of climategate and then read more about Al Gore and his video. i just never questioned the science, like most good law abiding Americans, that is until I started reading more and more about the different viewpoints. Obviously I contend there is a human contribution to the increase in c02 in the last century, and that this would add to a warming planet sounds plausible.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
' I contend there is a human contribution to the increase in c02 in the last century"
No,
Physics class tends to recite chemical theories whethter or not tested and "Green house gas" is a major doosey that experimental Physics led to the "Zeroth Law" (you can't double a mass in volume to make it asorb more heat then it's maximum threashold)..as in "Zeroth Law" was created in falsifying GHG (but they still ":preach" it)
That Combustion"Creates co2"is also Physics nonsense,it makes heat+force
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
@TheRealArchAngel
Oh, then my contention was based on deceit. I'll buy that. Hey if these are the guys who pulled off climategate, I will re evaluate my contention.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
Also, if I read of C02 measurements going back to the 1800's, although some were inaccurare by 20 to 100 ppm, Dr. Ernst Georg Beck (one of the lesser known scientists) investigated thousands of chemical c02 measuremnets which may suggest C02 wasn't always a "tidy" and neat "280 ppm" without fluctuation as conventional climate change proponents suggest. I can't verify measurements done before 1958, but there were lots of 300 to 400 ppm readings according to his investigation, over places like sea
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
"Also, if I read of C02 measurements going back to the 1800's, although some were inaccurare by 20 to 100 ppm"
Depending on Where,what time of day,tempature,humidity,elevation,wind speed and tempature co2 parts per million can be anywhere from 0ppm to 900ppm..even more near teconic rifts and volcanos or co2 sinks
Trees eat co2 so ppm drops around them for instance
Anything from 1800-1904? is proxy and based on Ice cores and can only tell you how much was trapped not how much was in enviroment
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
@TheRealArchAngel
Good point. So Proxy data from Ice samples have given estimates of 280 ppm. So then, the highly publicized Mana Loa site is probably contaminated by that volcano, and giving readings higher than might be elsewhere?
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
"I can't verify measurements done before 1958, but there were lots of 300 to 400 ppm readings according to his investigation, over places like sea"
The major amusement that I have with the "PPM" thing is that it only shows how much co2 i riding the Evaporation/percipitation cycle..or in the case of the Ocean,the Ocean Conveyer,not how much there is on earth
If that "390ppm" was accurate,that means there is 1.5trillion ton co2 in air of 5000 trillion atmosphere
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
@TheRealArchAngel
Interesting.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
"there were lots of 300 to 400 ppm readings according to his investigation, over places like sea"
That's not unusual
THe Ocean floor is the major surface co2 sink and thousands upon thousands of trillion of tons of co2 rests down their in the form of "co2 hydrate"
The "700ppm" everyone is alrmnist about is thousands of trillions of tons of co2 in 3000 million trillion tons of water
that 400ppm is co2 riding evaporation and the air flies up the ppm drops as Co2 is heavier then air
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
@TheRealArchAngel
Aha.. That helps put things in perspective.
If I recall, some have even estimated that the Jurassic and Carboniferous periods (when the earth was covered in jungles and red woods, with high volcanic activity) the earth had 1500 to 3000 CO2 ppm.
Estimates on average surface temps go from 65 to 70 F.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
"some have even estimated that the Jurassic and Carboniferous periods (when the earth was covered in jungles and red woods, with high volcanic activity) the earth had 1500 to 3000 CO2 ppm"
The Heat increase was from the thousands of miles of constantly eruting magma from plate points not the CO2 that was also being vented out as a result of "Interglation overpeak".from the core and mantle going absolutly haywire and venting out all that heat
Earth was 20f hotter the Dinosaurs died from Ice Age
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
"Earth was 20f hotter the Dinosaurs died from Ice Age"
The "COnsensus" by university faculty that a giant meter hitting the earth 65 million years ago not matching geological and antropological records is a perfect example of how consensus can be rooted in bullshit
Geologically there is the "KT BOundry" everywhere in the world you dig
Dinosaur fossils stop 10,000 years before the KT boundry...as in they were extinct before the KT hit...but the "Consensus" now says otherwise(rollseyes)
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
No doubt this warm planet of Jurassic some approx 150 millions of years ago was largely do to volcanic activity and not the evil trees and animals.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
"That Combustion"Creates co2"is also Physics nonsense,it makes heat+force"
It's another "Chemical Thoery" that is not observed in Chemistry nor Engineering
In the case of the car the gasoline is aerolized into a mist with oxygen and is shot into a piston and then it is compressed and the spark ignites the gasoline mist that causes te force to blow the piston open then the caremelized carbon junk(no o2 to oxidize)left is ejected into the ECM
takes fusion or Electrolisys to make"CO2 from CO
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
@TheRealArchAngel
Interesting. So then, would you agree that it might very well be possible, that C02 readings before 1900 have been cherry picked to represent the lowest average values by modern proponent of Climate change? I mean Dr. beck's research is pretty interesting, even if these are old measurements, they open the mind to other possibilities at least.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
"Interesting. So then, would you agree that it might very well be possible, that C02 readings before 1900 have been cherry picke"
no,that ie Doesn't matter at all
These "experts" actually believe that 1.5 triliion tons of co2(500 billion tons of that supposedly "added by humans)in 5000 trillion tons of air cans cause warming in that air and cause the 300 million trillion tons of ocean to heat 2 degrees
"Climate" is regulated by Earth's core emmisions,not co2 leaving sinks cause of warming
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
@TheRealArchAngel
Oh wow. Thank you for conveying the numbers to me. The math doesn't add up at all... our alleged 500 billion ton addition making 300 million trillion tons heat 2 deg... That is a stretch.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
The Obama volt, a dying breed... A true American classic, almost as renown as the Tucker...
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
"A true American classic, almost as renown as the Tucker"
No
ucker just had trouble getting financing to go big
GM Volt got the President of the US that took over GW and gacve the Company to the Unions and put millions onto it's development and even shut down domestic drilling and making coal more expensive as well to drive the cost of gas up to make the Electric Vehicle look more apealing and,still,the majority of people dont want the nearly $70,000 glorified golf cart
(HINT:mAKE A suv version)
TheRealArchAngel 6 months ago
Well, I will respectfully, and in some cases disrespectfully, disagree with this alleged scientific consensus.
GarfoyleZanderfield 6 months ago
@GarfoyleZanderfield
So the vast some of scientific evidence doesn't convince you? Do you disagree with smoking causing cancer?
AndroidPolitician 6 months ago