I know Bluelight well-- people do all kinds of things! But I have a good handle on use in my part of the country, and heroin and OC are what people are injecting-- far more than bupe. I have always said that the naloxone is more political than practical, but it WILL precipitate W/D in many people-- it depends on their opiate tolerance among other things. Affinity is only half of the equation. A low-affinity drug will displace a high affinity drug if the dose is high enough.
never mind doc, I just called cvs and asked them and they said that I need the one with the naltrexone in it because I'm taking it for narcotic dependence. She said the subutex is for pain, which I know is wrong but I wasn't gonna sit there an argue with her. It's amazing how pharmacists go to school for this stuff but someone like me knows more about it than them.
Just to clarify, it has naloxone, not naltrexone. Naltrexone is active orally, and naloxone is not. You are correct about the pharmacist situation-- Subutex vs Suboxone are interchangable. Neither is 'indicated' for pain in the US, but bupe IS used for pain in other countries. She is incorrect about using one for pain and not the other; there is no such issue, as the naloxone is not active when taken orally and is therefore irrelevant to the issue.
Sorry for the delay--- as you learned, they won't do that-- Suboxone and Subutex are different meds and pharnacists cannot replace one with the other. You are correct on your second comment--
woh, woh, woh, I live in Cleveland Ohio has it really gone generic here? I just went to Giant Eagle and they wanted me to pay $10 for one pill!! They said the more you buy the better deal you get. It used to not be like that it use to only be 5 bucks a pill, but shit If it's only like 2 bucks a pill I'll have to take that into consideration.
It has, but you need a script for SUBUTEX-- not Suboxone. They are the same thing, really; the naloxone in Suboxone does nothing at all (it is there to prevent injecting, but almost nobody injects Suboxone!). There is no 'generic Suboxone'-- it is 'generic Subutex', also called 'buprenorphine oral dissolvable tablet'. I have been told by writers from Ohio that Walgreens sells it for $2.50 per 8 mg tablet.
Within 2 years I was up to about 180mgs of Oxy daily. Quitting from that level is horrible! I weaned down to 80 mgs daily. The pain isn't too bad after the first week or so. Next month I'm aiming for 60mg a day. Gonna hurt, gonna be worth it. Quitting from 60mg won't be nearly as hard as quitting from 180mg daily. I'm probably going into a Suboxone program after the first of the year. A good friend did Suboxone treatment plan after 5 years of "H" and it worked great for her. Wish me luck...
I was paying 100 a month for the visit and then about 350 for the pills. Now I have a new doctor where I only pay 5 bucks for the visit and I get the pills discounted because I made no money for the last years so it's like a sliding fee scale kind of thing. But now hear in Ohio the price of 60 subs used to be around 350 now they raised to around 420 or something like that. Which is like 7 a pill. That's why I'm switching to methadone, it's cheaper and they have more to offer recovery wise.
I'm glad you explained how and why instant withdrawal can happen. I was wondering why more doctors don't prescribe more subutex? the naloxone as far as I know is mainly in suboxone so people can't inject the medicine but besides that, I think that naloxone does more damage than good and it seems totally unnecessary
why does it have to cost so much? i could be the poster child for this stuff.. but i have only been able to buy it off people i know.. to see a doctor for it is WAY WAY TOO EXPENSIVE. but this stuff works. it really works. why don't they make this more readily available to people that really wanna quit?
I have no argument with you over that-- the medication does cost too much. I can't speak to the doc situation because they vary so much-- my rates for Suboxone are less than for seeing a person for general psychiatry issues, and I'm sure there are docs who are fair-- and others who take advantage of people. After taking it for a year, I see no reason to see a person more often than every 3 months-- I hear of people being seen weekly, and that is taking advantage, in my opinion.
I was recently featured in a heroin story in the L.I press I haver had so many friends die from heroin and suboxone may be the thing to save a few of us check out my band inRed
I was featured once as well-- not the most flattering story in the world, but it can be found by Googling 'mens health' and 'junig'-- a story about my days as an anesthesiologist.
Probably just plain old greed... I don't 'accept insurance' as full payment for any of my psych practice because the insurers expect you to see 4 or more patients per hour and make your money on 'volume'' I do SUBMIT claims, and the insurers pay a portion of them. I would consider it a bit unethical if a practice had two different policies, accepting insurance for psych patients but then not accepting for addicts. Another conflict- requiring counseling from the doc's clinic to get suboxone.
Nice work out the basement. I love your office..
Kapo465 2 years ago
Thanks! What's with the 'Norwegian black metal'?
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
DR. Jeff...YOU LOST ME AT "When WE were monkeys?"
ralphisgutz 2 years ago
Evolution speaking, that is!
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
i dont think chimps have arms lol(: great video.
madmanltd 2 years ago
If your never been on opiates and addicted to it you and anyone els will never NEVER know till you have gone through it !
jehdeiah2211 2 years ago
LOL - *loads* of people inject Suboxone. Check out the bluelight (other drugs) forums if you don't beleive me.
The naloxone doesn't work when injected, as the bupe has a higher affinity for the receptors and out competes it.
Its basically inert.
Panik303 2 years ago
I know Bluelight well-- people do all kinds of things! But I have a good handle on use in my part of the country, and heroin and OC are what people are injecting-- far more than bupe. I have always said that the naloxone is more political than practical, but it WILL precipitate W/D in many people-- it depends on their opiate tolerance among other things. Affinity is only half of the equation. A low-affinity drug will displace a high affinity drug if the dose is high enough.
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
never mind doc, I just called cvs and asked them and they said that I need the one with the naltrexone in it because I'm taking it for narcotic dependence. She said the subutex is for pain, which I know is wrong but I wasn't gonna sit there an argue with her. It's amazing how pharmacists go to school for this stuff but someone like me knows more about it than them.
downfan1 2 years ago
Just to clarify, it has naloxone, not naltrexone. Naltrexone is active orally, and naloxone is not. You are correct about the pharmacist situation-- Subutex vs Suboxone are interchangable. Neither is 'indicated' for pain in the US, but bupe IS used for pain in other countries. She is incorrect about using one for pain and not the other; there is no such issue, as the naloxone is not active when taken orally and is therefore irrelevant to the issue.
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
Hey Doc, do you think if I asked for subutex and had a prescription for suboxone they would give me the generic subutex?
downfan1 2 years ago
Sorry for the delay--- as you learned, they won't do that-- Suboxone and Subutex are different meds and pharnacists cannot replace one with the other. You are correct on your second comment--
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
woh, woh, woh, I live in Cleveland Ohio has it really gone generic here? I just went to Giant Eagle and they wanted me to pay $10 for one pill!! They said the more you buy the better deal you get. It used to not be like that it use to only be 5 bucks a pill, but shit If it's only like 2 bucks a pill I'll have to take that into consideration.
downfan1 2 years ago
It has, but you need a script for SUBUTEX-- not Suboxone. They are the same thing, really; the naloxone in Suboxone does nothing at all (it is there to prevent injecting, but almost nobody injects Suboxone!). There is no 'generic Suboxone'-- it is 'generic Subutex', also called 'buprenorphine oral dissolvable tablet'. I have been told by writers from Ohio that Walgreens sells it for $2.50 per 8 mg tablet.
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
Within 2 years I was up to about 180mgs of Oxy daily. Quitting from that level is horrible! I weaned down to 80 mgs daily. The pain isn't too bad after the first week or so. Next month I'm aiming for 60mg a day. Gonna hurt, gonna be worth it. Quitting from 60mg won't be nearly as hard as quitting from 180mg daily. I'm probably going into a Suboxone program after the first of the year. A good friend did Suboxone treatment plan after 5 years of "H" and it worked great for her. Wish me luck...
randy95023 2 years ago
Best of luck!
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
I was paying 100 a month for the visit and then about 350 for the pills. Now I have a new doctor where I only pay 5 bucks for the visit and I get the pills discounted because I made no money for the last years so it's like a sliding fee scale kind of thing. But now hear in Ohio the price of 60 subs used to be around 350 now they raised to around 420 or something like that. Which is like 7 a pill. That's why I'm switching to methadone, it's cheaper and they have more to offer recovery wise.
downfan1 2 years ago
To each his own-- buprenorphine is now generic, and Wisconsin and Ohio now have it for $2.50 per 8 mg tablet-- enough for one day's maintenance dose.
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
I'm glad you explained how and why instant withdrawal can happen. I was wondering why more doctors don't prescribe more subutex? the naloxone as far as I know is mainly in suboxone so people can't inject the medicine but besides that, I think that naloxone does more damage than good and it seems totally unnecessary
thnk4urself 2 years ago
why does it have to cost so much? i could be the poster child for this stuff.. but i have only been able to buy it off people i know.. to see a doctor for it is WAY WAY TOO EXPENSIVE. but this stuff works. it really works. why don't they make this more readily available to people that really wanna quit?
yippittydoda 2 years ago 3
I have no argument with you over that-- the medication does cost too much. I can't speak to the doc situation because they vary so much-- my rates for Suboxone are less than for seeing a person for general psychiatry issues, and I'm sure there are docs who are fair-- and others who take advantage of people. After taking it for a year, I see no reason to see a person more often than every 3 months-- I hear of people being seen weekly, and that is taking advantage, in my opinion.
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
I take this daily. Its the best thing that ever happened to me. Been clean for so long.
HippiexChild 2 years ago 2
This is amazing information. It really gives me a grasp of neurochemistry.
The0neAndOnlyX 2 years ago
Mr. Roger's : The Drug Version. I mean that in the best possible way. Thanks so much for the lesson!!
saintjudesteve 3 years ago
Thanks!
SuboxDoc 3 years ago
I was recently featured in a heroin story in the L.I press I haver had so many friends die from heroin and suboxone may be the thing to save a few of us check out my band inRed
EdwardDelinden 3 years ago
I hope it helps.
I was featured once as well-- not the most flattering story in the world, but it can be found by Googling 'mens health' and 'junig'-- a story about my days as an anesthesiologist.
SuboxDoc 3 years ago
thankyou doc. great video.i am having trouble finding a doc. that takes insurance??whats up with that?
bwilli93 3 years ago
Probably just plain old greed... I don't 'accept insurance' as full payment for any of my psych practice because the insurers expect you to see 4 or more patients per hour and make your money on 'volume'' I do SUBMIT claims, and the insurers pay a portion of them. I would consider it a bit unethical if a practice had two different policies, accepting insurance for psych patients but then not accepting for addicts. Another conflict- requiring counseling from the doc's clinic to get suboxone.
SuboxDoc 3 years ago
Very informative. Thank you VERY much for sharing your knowledge.
JTurbinator 3 years ago
Thanks, Turbinator!
SuboxDoc 2 years ago