Another sad thing for the Kurds is that they would like to have a better partnership with Israel, but it is almost impossible because of issues like the war and it's growing role as a target for extremists. By the way, Al Qaeada regularly shopped its hate and violence in Kurdistan before 9-11. Kurds reported this to the State Department regularly. They resisted those exploiters and how they threatened the women and children. Kurds are the best allies Americans can count on, even after betrayal!
These people are not invited to be agreed with or praised. It's just a tasting. Personally, I find this to be absolute baloney and crap. If you think this is the worst of university spending, then you're wasting your time. That's why I'm not impressed with this organization overall. It's just an agitators united. You have big fish to fry. How about bugging a wall street office, please. I'll donate a grand for that.
What has caused American's to rally support for Palestine? Relativism? I mean, I've seen protesters at marches holding signs that say, "Homosexuals for a free Palestine." Don't they know what happens to gay people under Sharia law?
I hate how liberals complain about perceived infringements on their freedoms here in the US, yet rally to the support of cultures that make the Dark Ages look like a summer resort.
@controlclerk What has caused Americans to rally support for Israel. I don't really care about either side. It strikes me as odd that we are even arguing about this. Screw both of them. This country keeps sticking its nose there and elsewhere to our own detriment. Is israel really an ally? More like a customer of weapons purchases. Be honest at least. This has nothing to do with human rights or freedom. Israel is a failed state.
"What has caused Americans to rally support for Israel?"
I would say vested interests and common grounds. It's one of the only democracy's in the Middle East.
How can you say Israel is a failed state? Because they still deal with violent attacks? They've held together rather well through the turmoils faced since their establishment. I'm not seeing how you get, "failed state" out of that.
Democracy? I really don't care if they are a kingdom like Saudi Arabia (which we gladly support and call an ally) or a "democracy" like Israel. What I care about is our own nation and only our nation. Our foreign policy has been an abject failure. We don't need to be drawn into Israel's failures as well.
Israel has never had a day of peace, and it seems it is more profitable and enduring NOT to. Our weapons suppliers are happy about this no doubt. But realistically, it's time we become patriot
That's not true. The liberals I know do not support Hamas or Hezballah. They support a democratic movement of the Palestinians. of which there never will be one because it is not in Israel's interest for such a democracy to exist. It's the same reason most fundamentalism is created anywhere! When people are disaffected or disenfranchised, the result is the same.
Again, I'm not a liberal, but don't BS people here like you're Sean Hannity.
As I've said, I've seen signs that support Palestine from liberals. Zombietime's a good place to look for pictures. We have a vested interest in Israel. Isolationism in the Western World is extinct, Sorry.
"Common grounds" with them refers to our beliefs. Judeo-Christian beliefs stand in opposition to Islamic beliefs. Problem is, Islam is fascistic by nature and is commanded to spread. Someone will eventually have to deal with the political powers operating off this philosophy.
There is no interest for the US or her citizens in Israel. It's like saying the Muslims in America have a vested interest in Saudi Arabia or Iraq. It's stupid and wrong. Israel needs to figure out its own destiny. We are in enough mud, to put it nicely, that it's absolutely outrageous that our law makers waste time debating Israel and who is more supportive. The pandering during the elections is the worst, especially when they bow before AIPAC. Lawmakers work for usa!
Many of "her citizens" would disagree with you, though. I mean, why do you think there is the "pandering" that you so hate? It's a real issue, and a big issue for many.
Even a secular POV should see the nobility in defending allies. Also, you seem to have disdain for our trading with Israel. May I ask you what allies are supposed to do with each other, if not trade?
I don't have disdain for Israel or any country. I have passion for my country, the USA, and I'm tired of the lawmakers wasting time and energy on issues like Israel and Arabs. There is no benefit to us whatsoever. If the government were run like a business, these people should have restructured long ago. They work on our dime and they have failed us exactly by wasting time and resources on these foreign policy BS. I am Jewish, by the way. I see the value of Israel for Jews, but not for America.
But, how much of our military resources are in Israel at the moment?
I think the main concern right now is with Iran going nuclear. Israel seems pretty skiddish and they might act, which is something that may or may not draw our attention, depending on what they do.
I agree that they can handle their own business, but isn't that due to our support of them? However, if nukes come into the equation, the whole world's going to get involved.
I think you're missing what I mean. I believe that our support of Israel has actually weakened it. Imagine if they had to restructure as well. Maybe they'd finally settle on a peace deal. Why do we even care if there is a peace or not? Israel needs to fight its own wars (with words and weapons), and control its destriny. We are prolonging the conflict with our presence. I don't like being made a target because of which people are Jerusalem's residents either. Sorry, not my country, not the USA.
The problem of being a target won't go away, even if we completely abandon Israel. Fundamentalists, by their very creed, won't rest until the whole world is under Sharia.
It may not be PC, but Islam is effed up. There's a reason 85% of all the conflicts in the world are directly related to Islamic fundamentalism. Even Hitchen's can see the difference between Judaism/Christianity and Islam. Dealing with the spread of Islamic fascism has been a source of conflict for a very long time....
@controlclerk I'm never going to defend Islam. As a woman, I am offended by Islam and the behavior of the despicable prophet Mohammad. However, I have known very decent Muslims too, especially Kurds, who have a lot in common with Israelis. They have made amazing gains as a nationless group without violence (no matter what the Turks say!) Anyway, the lack of intervention has increased their determination and creativity to survive, not to mention how close they are to nationhood.
I'm not very familiar with the Kurds other than the atrocities visited upon them by Saddam. I've heard of their being greatful for his removal. Why were they singled out?
I know there were provisions in the Iraqi Constitution giving them lands and their own governing authority. Is this your reference to getting closer to nationhood? Or am I too narrow in scope? I know they live in places other than Iraq. However, the Iraqi situation bolsters the point of US involvement in the region..
@controlclerk The Kurds had an autonomous region in Northern Iraq before the invasion by the US. I'd say that Saddam's toppling helped, but look at Iraq now. A Kurdish nation will grow into a target. The key is that the tortoise wins the race. Kurds are in no hurry, and they know since President Wilson's time and the 14 points, an American promise is empty (unless it's for the Israelis). Kurds are transnational in that they live in Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and Syria.
Do you think it's ironic that you point out that US promises are empty, while at the same time arguing for isolationism that would necessarily cause us to back out of promises?
Good point! However, it's those promises we back out on that would strengthen the other promises (namely the oath that our law makers take to serve us and our interests!) which are a greater priority. A promise to a foreign nation, whether it is Israel, Haiti, or China takes a back seat to our needs and wishes, no matter how "globalized" the world has become.
...and weakens your point that they've made gains without violence. However, I get the feeling you may be referring to another group since you mentioned the Turks.
@controlclerk No it does not bolster the US presence at all. In fact, the US presence has worsened matters for the Kurds because Kurds become the scapegoats for the problems there, just as Jews were in Europe.
Again, I see the value of Israel, but not for the US. The value is a religious one, and that's not for us to get involved in.
Then why were they dancing in the streets when the US showed up? I mean, they now have representation in government outlined in the Iraqi Constitution. I don't see how that "weakened" them. It would seem they were scapegoats before the US got there.
It's so exhausting trying to figure out what's going on over there. Personally, I have the isolationist bent in me, I just think that in our time, it's not practical. Too much of the world is intermingled for us to ignore it.
They were dancing because you cannot find a Kurd in this world who did not lose a relative to Saddam. There are even Kurds who named their children after GW Bush! Seeing your children gassed and slaughtered will do that. I did not dispute how pleasing it was to see that bastard Saddam run for his life. I was disputing the impact on nationahood and violence in Northern Iraq aka Kurdistan (suck it, Turks!)
So, overall your argument is that it's had a negative effect on their own statehood. Is that because the other people in that area associate them with America now or is that just the latest excuse in a long line of reasons they've hated the Kurds?
I would say that US presence is helpful only insofar as it occupies the haters and lazy bums who'd rather kill Kurds than do something productive with their lives and build their nation. It's sad, but most Arabs are like Haitians - they don't contribute to their own countries as much as they should. Yet, if you lived in a dictatorship like Syria, you'd probably think the same way. Who cares. We are Americans and we have our own problems.
All you need to do is look to Iran, where people are willing to die for their country as long as they know they are fighting for themselves and their destiny. The same is true of Kurds. IN America, people are increasingly doubtful of their government and military. They don't think they are fighting for America, but the "allies." Why? For trade? How much can weapons trade sustain us? We need to focus on our own industries of talents before foreign nations rob us of them.
working in the military doesn't mean being fighting. Our military can do a lot that does not involve smart bombing aspirin factories. Our military's purpose is somewhat vague these days. We need to shift our priorities to surviving with science and skills, not weapons. Weapons will only save us for so long. I don't know if you've ever taught, but even at the college level our "future" looks scary. We lack the basic maths and sciences to compete! CERN reactor belongs in the US, not switzerland!
Walter Williams wrote an article recently talking about how the average college grad is less educated than the average high school grad in the 1940's. But I'm not one to talk (only hs and military).
There's a reason a BA/BS is worthless. Everyone should not go to college. Modern universities are just businesses. Education should be free in America, and competitive. And I say that as a libertarian minded person. Why? Because it's fraud to see colleges reporting that "BA gives you an edge." Skills give you an edge. If you can't even read a novel and figure out the main idea, who cares if you have a BA/BS behind your name?
I believe that education is free- it's just that credentials aren't. I've learned most of what I know since getting out of school and doing my own research. Libraries are great. Nothing upsets me more than seeing someone in a position they're unqualified for, but they got it due to having a degree.
I think if you have those basic skills (sitting and reading in a library are basic skills most college students lack, surprisingly), you should go to school. If more people like you went to school, the blunter minds would be weeded out.
Argument is really a civil discourse, actually. It's not a cable news "i'm right. You're wrong." practice at all. Good luck to you! Thanks for the discussion.
check out the latest video from media matters. it's actually about rush limbaugh and his anti-education funding sentiment. it's interesting if you're into this education stuff.
Sorry what I meant was that it occupies them to fight American troops rather than Kurds. I'm scared to think what will happen to Kurds when the US leaves, because the Kurds are the real success story of the Middle East.
Sept. 11th is a significant date in Islam. It has really nothing to do with the state of Israel.
Sept 11, 1697 marked the defeat of the Ottoman Empire. Their last effort to destroy Christendom. Their problems run deeper than just the state of Israel.
Gotta run, be back tomorrow. Thanks for the discussion. :)
@controlclerk I am going to say something that will cause me to lose points here, but so be it. Why is it that God is a point of evidence for nationhood? Anti Semitism is a European sentiment, actually. The hatred of Jews and Israel is rooted in the founding of Israel itself. This opinion I just shared it irrelevant cuz no one will ever ask such a questin. Israel is lucky to have won that war (no humor intend. there) of words already. I just don't care about their conflict. I care about America.
That's very astute. I've noticed in my own study the main reason the West supported Israel's establishment as a nation is because they wanted the Jews out of their own lands.
As far as God being a point of evidence? Um, do I understand correctly that you're saying that the REAL reason for Israel's statehood is anti-semitism as opposed to God's will? If so, I could reference Jacob and his bro's, the whole, "what was meant for bad, God used for good" thing. :\
@controlclerk I just don't like the idea of a state founded in the name of religion, ESPECIALLY in the Middle East. What is sad is that most right wing Christians (in the vein of Pat Roberston), are hurting the Christian communities in the ME. Ask any Palestinian Christian and they will tell you. The destiny and "prime directive" is completely funked up by US intervention. The good will never rise if we meddle. I feel the same way about our country and elections! Look at our Obama..... yekh
You understand money, yes? Then you should understand Robertson and Hagee. I have watched Robertson's show when he told the audience that God told him to sell his stocks. LOL. Anyway, his support of the Likuds in Israel has hurt the Christian population immensely.
With people like Oral Roberts and Pat and Hagee, you have to ask yourself if Roberts is wrong for exploiting stupid people. You and I see that and we laugh our pants off, but people take these guys seriously. The only sad part is the pedestal we put these pastors on! US Presidents met with these guys. *sigh*
You'd think that because they're Protestants, they might see the folly of mixing politics and religion. However, it's also the greatest mix if you're looking for good pay and great benefits with a minimal amount of actual productivity.
What a moron... "Wow, I can string words together!" Just another American Palestinian sympathizer... Full of hate and contempt for life. After growing up comfortably here in America. Imaging if he had grown up over there... Obviously the world would be rid of this camel's ass because he would have already played the starring role in a homicide bombing, praise Allah!
This video is B.S. zionist propeganda. Remi stands for the rights of Palestinians. He does not condone suicide bombers. Get a grip people.
khakimustafa 7 months ago
Another sad thing for the Kurds is that they would like to have a better partnership with Israel, but it is almost impossible because of issues like the war and it's growing role as a target for extremists. By the way, Al Qaeada regularly shopped its hate and violence in Kurdistan before 9-11. Kurds reported this to the State Department regularly. They resisted those exploiters and how they threatened the women and children. Kurds are the best allies Americans can count on, even after betrayal!
wowhornby 2 years ago
These people are not invited to be agreed with or praised. It's just a tasting. Personally, I find this to be absolute baloney and crap. If you think this is the worst of university spending, then you're wasting your time. That's why I'm not impressed with this organization overall. It's just an agitators united. You have big fish to fry. How about bugging a wall street office, please. I'll donate a grand for that.
wowhornby 2 years ago
What has caused American's to rally support for Palestine? Relativism? I mean, I've seen protesters at marches holding signs that say, "Homosexuals for a free Palestine." Don't they know what happens to gay people under Sharia law?
I hate how liberals complain about perceived infringements on their freedoms here in the US, yet rally to the support of cultures that make the Dark Ages look like a summer resort.
controlclerk 2 years ago
@controlclerk What has caused Americans to rally support for Israel. I don't really care about either side. It strikes me as odd that we are even arguing about this. Screw both of them. This country keeps sticking its nose there and elsewhere to our own detriment. Is israel really an ally? More like a customer of weapons purchases. Be honest at least. This has nothing to do with human rights or freedom. Israel is a failed state.
Ron Paul '12 =)
wowhornby 2 years ago
"What has caused Americans to rally support for Israel?"
I would say vested interests and common grounds. It's one of the only democracy's in the Middle East.
How can you say Israel is a failed state? Because they still deal with violent attacks? They've held together rather well through the turmoils faced since their establishment. I'm not seeing how you get, "failed state" out of that.
controlclerk 2 years ago
Democracy? I really don't care if they are a kingdom like Saudi Arabia (which we gladly support and call an ally) or a "democracy" like Israel. What I care about is our own nation and only our nation. Our foreign policy has been an abject failure. We don't need to be drawn into Israel's failures as well.
Israel has never had a day of peace, and it seems it is more profitable and enduring NOT to. Our weapons suppliers are happy about this no doubt. But realistically, it's time we become patriot
wowhornby 2 years ago
That's not true. The liberals I know do not support Hamas or Hezballah. They support a democratic movement of the Palestinians. of which there never will be one because it is not in Israel's interest for such a democracy to exist. It's the same reason most fundamentalism is created anywhere! When people are disaffected or disenfranchised, the result is the same.
Again, I'm not a liberal, but don't BS people here like you're Sean Hannity.
Ron Paul '12!
wowhornby 2 years ago
As I've said, I've seen signs that support Palestine from liberals. Zombietime's a good place to look for pictures. We have a vested interest in Israel. Isolationism in the Western World is extinct, Sorry.
"Common grounds" with them refers to our beliefs. Judeo-Christian beliefs stand in opposition to Islamic beliefs. Problem is, Islam is fascistic by nature and is commanded to spread. Someone will eventually have to deal with the political powers operating off this philosophy.
controlclerk 2 years ago
There is no interest for the US or her citizens in Israel. It's like saying the Muslims in America have a vested interest in Saudi Arabia or Iraq. It's stupid and wrong. Israel needs to figure out its own destiny. We are in enough mud, to put it nicely, that it's absolutely outrageous that our law makers waste time debating Israel and who is more supportive. The pandering during the elections is the worst, especially when they bow before AIPAC. Lawmakers work for usa!
Ron Paul '12.
wowhornby 2 years ago
Many of "her citizens" would disagree with you, though. I mean, why do you think there is the "pandering" that you so hate? It's a real issue, and a big issue for many.
Even a secular POV should see the nobility in defending allies. Also, you seem to have disdain for our trading with Israel. May I ask you what allies are supposed to do with each other, if not trade?
controlclerk 2 years ago
I don't have disdain for Israel or any country. I have passion for my country, the USA, and I'm tired of the lawmakers wasting time and energy on issues like Israel and Arabs. There is no benefit to us whatsoever. If the government were run like a business, these people should have restructured long ago. They work on our dime and they have failed us exactly by wasting time and resources on these foreign policy BS. I am Jewish, by the way. I see the value of Israel for Jews, but not for America.
wowhornby 2 years ago
I meant that you have disdain for our trading with Israel, not the country itself. I may be wrong, but it seems you spoke derogatively about that.
If you see value in the state of Israel, why would you abandon it?
controlclerk 2 years ago
Because it's a gamble. This isn't about loyalty and friendship. It is about finally serving our own interests. Israel is a big boy now.
wowhornby 2 years ago
I see your point.
But, how much of our military resources are in Israel at the moment?
I think the main concern right now is with Iran going nuclear. Israel seems pretty skiddish and they might act, which is something that may or may not draw our attention, depending on what they do.
I agree that they can handle their own business, but isn't that due to our support of them? However, if nukes come into the equation, the whole world's going to get involved.
controlclerk 2 years ago
I think you're missing what I mean. I believe that our support of Israel has actually weakened it. Imagine if they had to restructure as well. Maybe they'd finally settle on a peace deal. Why do we even care if there is a peace or not? Israel needs to fight its own wars (with words and weapons), and control its destriny. We are prolonging the conflict with our presence. I don't like being made a target because of which people are Jerusalem's residents either. Sorry, not my country, not the USA.
wowhornby 2 years ago
The problem of being a target won't go away, even if we completely abandon Israel. Fundamentalists, by their very creed, won't rest until the whole world is under Sharia.
It may not be PC, but Islam is effed up. There's a reason 85% of all the conflicts in the world are directly related to Islamic fundamentalism. Even Hitchen's can see the difference between Judaism/Christianity and Islam. Dealing with the spread of Islamic fascism has been a source of conflict for a very long time....
controlclerk 2 years ago
@controlclerk I'm never going to defend Islam. As a woman, I am offended by Islam and the behavior of the despicable prophet Mohammad. However, I have known very decent Muslims too, especially Kurds, who have a lot in common with Israelis. They have made amazing gains as a nationless group without violence (no matter what the Turks say!) Anyway, the lack of intervention has increased their determination and creativity to survive, not to mention how close they are to nationhood.
wowhornby 2 years ago
I'm not very familiar with the Kurds other than the atrocities visited upon them by Saddam. I've heard of their being greatful for his removal. Why were they singled out?
I know there were provisions in the Iraqi Constitution giving them lands and their own governing authority. Is this your reference to getting closer to nationhood? Or am I too narrow in scope? I know they live in places other than Iraq. However, the Iraqi situation bolsters the point of US involvement in the region..
controlclerk 2 years ago
@controlclerk The Kurds had an autonomous region in Northern Iraq before the invasion by the US. I'd say that Saddam's toppling helped, but look at Iraq now. A Kurdish nation will grow into a target. The key is that the tortoise wins the race. Kurds are in no hurry, and they know since President Wilson's time and the 14 points, an American promise is empty (unless it's for the Israelis). Kurds are transnational in that they live in Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and Syria.
wowhornby 2 years ago
Do you think it's ironic that you point out that US promises are empty, while at the same time arguing for isolationism that would necessarily cause us to back out of promises?
:)
controlclerk 2 years ago
Good point! However, it's those promises we back out on that would strengthen the other promises (namely the oath that our law makers take to serve us and our interests!) which are a greater priority. A promise to a foreign nation, whether it is Israel, Haiti, or China takes a back seat to our needs and wishes, no matter how "globalized" the world has become.
wowhornby 2 years ago
...and weakens your point that they've made gains without violence. However, I get the feeling you may be referring to another group since you mentioned the Turks.
controlclerk 2 years ago
@controlclerk No it does not bolster the US presence at all. In fact, the US presence has worsened matters for the Kurds because Kurds become the scapegoats for the problems there, just as Jews were in Europe.
Again, I see the value of Israel, but not for the US. The value is a religious one, and that's not for us to get involved in.
wowhornby 2 years ago
Then why were they dancing in the streets when the US showed up? I mean, they now have representation in government outlined in the Iraqi Constitution. I don't see how that "weakened" them. It would seem they were scapegoats before the US got there.
It's so exhausting trying to figure out what's going on over there. Personally, I have the isolationist bent in me, I just think that in our time, it's not practical. Too much of the world is intermingled for us to ignore it.
controlclerk 2 years ago
They were dancing because you cannot find a Kurd in this world who did not lose a relative to Saddam. There are even Kurds who named their children after GW Bush! Seeing your children gassed and slaughtered will do that. I did not dispute how pleasing it was to see that bastard Saddam run for his life. I was disputing the impact on nationahood and violence in Northern Iraq aka Kurdistan (suck it, Turks!)
wowhornby 2 years ago
So, overall your argument is that it's had a negative effect on their own statehood. Is that because the other people in that area associate them with America now or is that just the latest excuse in a long line of reasons they've hated the Kurds?
controlclerk 2 years ago
I would say that US presence is helpful only insofar as it occupies the haters and lazy bums who'd rather kill Kurds than do something productive with their lives and build their nation. It's sad, but most Arabs are like Haitians - they don't contribute to their own countries as much as they should. Yet, if you lived in a dictatorship like Syria, you'd probably think the same way. Who cares. We are Americans and we have our own problems.
wowhornby 2 years ago
So then, what problems do we need to fix here that are being hindered by our support of our allies?
I don't think there's much our military can do to fix stuff here. Might as well put them to work somewhere, right?
controlclerk 2 years ago
All you need to do is look to Iran, where people are willing to die for their country as long as they know they are fighting for themselves and their destiny. The same is true of Kurds. IN America, people are increasingly doubtful of their government and military. They don't think they are fighting for America, but the "allies." Why? For trade? How much can weapons trade sustain us? We need to focus on our own industries of talents before foreign nations rob us of them.
wowhornby 2 years ago
What do you think of the Tea Parties? This legitimate or something else?
Are you a laissez-faire capitalist? Socialist? Communist? Anarchist? How do we fix our own problems?
controlclerk 2 years ago
I'm a registered republican and I'm unhappy with both parties.
wowhornby 2 years ago
Nothing really to be happy about right now.
I'm going Independent, lean Republican. But I don't like labels maaan... they're too restrictive...
controlclerk 2 years ago
working in the military doesn't mean being fighting. Our military can do a lot that does not involve smart bombing aspirin factories. Our military's purpose is somewhat vague these days. We need to shift our priorities to surviving with science and skills, not weapons. Weapons will only save us for so long. I don't know if you've ever taught, but even at the college level our "future" looks scary. We lack the basic maths and sciences to compete! CERN reactor belongs in the US, not switzerland!
wowhornby 2 years ago
Walter Williams wrote an article recently talking about how the average college grad is less educated than the average high school grad in the 1940's. But I'm not one to talk (only hs and military).
controlclerk 2 years ago
There's a reason a BA/BS is worthless. Everyone should not go to college. Modern universities are just businesses. Education should be free in America, and competitive. And I say that as a libertarian minded person. Why? Because it's fraud to see colleges reporting that "BA gives you an edge." Skills give you an edge. If you can't even read a novel and figure out the main idea, who cares if you have a BA/BS behind your name?
wowhornby 2 years ago
I agree wholeheartedly.
I believe that education is free- it's just that credentials aren't. I've learned most of what I know since getting out of school and doing my own research. Libraries are great. Nothing upsets me more than seeing someone in a position they're unqualified for, but they got it due to having a degree.
controlclerk 2 years ago
I think if you have those basic skills (sitting and reading in a library are basic skills most college students lack, surprisingly), you should go to school. If more people like you went to school, the blunter minds would be weeded out.
wowhornby 2 years ago
Thank you for the compliment. I've enjoyed our back and forth. :)
Civil discourse on Youtube? What's happened to the world?!?!?!
controlclerk 2 years ago
Argument is really a civil discourse, actually. It's not a cable news "i'm right. You're wrong." practice at all. Good luck to you! Thanks for the discussion.
wowhornby 2 years ago
That being said, I AM right and you are soooo wrong.
: P
controlclerk 2 years ago
check out the latest video from media matters. it's actually about rush limbaugh and his anti-education funding sentiment. it's interesting if you're into this education stuff.
wowhornby 2 years ago
Cool, thanks. :)
controlclerk 2 years ago
Sorry what I meant was that it occupies them to fight American troops rather than Kurds. I'm scared to think what will happen to Kurds when the US leaves, because the Kurds are the real success story of the Middle East.
wowhornby 2 years ago
So should we leave them to fend for themselves or be ready to protect them if needed?
If I've understood you, it would seem you have a laissez-faire approach to countries outside our own.
controlclerk 2 years ago
Isn't that what nation building is? It's really about evolution and natural selection.
wowhornby 2 years ago
Sept. 11th is a significant date in Islam. It has really nothing to do with the state of Israel.
Sept 11, 1697 marked the defeat of the Ottoman Empire. Their last effort to destroy Christendom. Their problems run deeper than just the state of Israel.
Gotta run, be back tomorrow. Thanks for the discussion. :)
controlclerk 2 years ago
Thank you too! Take care.
wowhornby 2 years ago
@controlclerk I am going to say something that will cause me to lose points here, but so be it. Why is it that God is a point of evidence for nationhood? Anti Semitism is a European sentiment, actually. The hatred of Jews and Israel is rooted in the founding of Israel itself. This opinion I just shared it irrelevant cuz no one will ever ask such a questin. Israel is lucky to have won that war (no humor intend. there) of words already. I just don't care about their conflict. I care about America.
wowhornby 2 years ago
That's very astute. I've noticed in my own study the main reason the West supported Israel's establishment as a nation is because they wanted the Jews out of their own lands.
As far as God being a point of evidence? Um, do I understand correctly that you're saying that the REAL reason for Israel's statehood is anti-semitism as opposed to God's will? If so, I could reference Jacob and his bro's, the whole, "what was meant for bad, God used for good" thing. :\
controlclerk 2 years ago
@controlclerk I just don't like the idea of a state founded in the name of religion, ESPECIALLY in the Middle East. What is sad is that most right wing Christians (in the vein of Pat Roberston), are hurting the Christian communities in the ME. Ask any Palestinian Christian and they will tell you. The destiny and "prime directive" is completely funked up by US intervention. The good will never rise if we meddle. I feel the same way about our country and elections! Look at our Obama..... yekh
wowhornby 2 years ago
I've never understood the Robertson's and Hagee's of the Christian community in the US.
My stance is simple- we should protect our allies. We don't need all the other stuff in there that muddles everything up.
controlclerk 2 years ago
You understand money, yes? Then you should understand Robertson and Hagee. I have watched Robertson's show when he told the audience that God told him to sell his stocks. LOL. Anyway, his support of the Likuds in Israel has hurt the Christian population immensely.
wowhornby 2 years ago
I meant that he is hurting the Christian population in Palestine or Arab Christians in general. I don't think he changes Christians in the US much.
wowhornby 2 years ago
You see Oral Roberts when he said if he didn't get a million bucks that God was going to kill him??
controlclerk 2 years ago
With people like Oral Roberts and Pat and Hagee, you have to ask yourself if Roberts is wrong for exploiting stupid people. You and I see that and we laugh our pants off, but people take these guys seriously. The only sad part is the pedestal we put these pastors on! US Presidents met with these guys. *sigh*
wowhornby 2 years ago
You'd think that because they're Protestants, they might see the folly of mixing politics and religion. However, it's also the greatest mix if you're looking for good pay and great benefits with a minimal amount of actual productivity.
controlclerk 2 years ago
If you register Independent in some states, I think it restricts your access to primary elections.
wowhornby 2 years ago
It does and that sucks, but at least I'm not restricted, right? Wait a minute...
Well... at least I'm not labeled! That's... something... right?
controlclerk 2 years ago
What a moron... "Wow, I can string words together!" Just another American Palestinian sympathizer... Full of hate and contempt for life. After growing up comfortably here in America. Imaging if he had grown up over there... Obviously the world would be rid of this camel's ass because he would have already played the starring role in a homicide bombing, praise Allah!
webchrisfox 2 years ago
I love Remi Kanazi!
PoeticInjusticeNet 2 years ago