Interview with Physicist David Bohm (Part 5/5)

[mannyste]

What's more important money or conciousness? WTF is this moron hahhah

[lourak]

I get nervous whenever I listen to scientists extrapolating from theories derived from observed phenomena (quantum mechanics, to take one example) to social architecture. I have never been able to crack that epistemological nut.

[stellar876]

@lourak I think it would help to go into the questions he's talking about yourself--deeply--have you?

[lourak]

@stellar876 Well - I am admittedly no expert in quantum mechanics, but having had an interest in this subject for many years, I feel confident in expressing no more than a healthy skepticism with respect to what Bohm says here. Thanks!

[stellar876]

@lourak Curious--what is it that you are exactly skeptical about. Bohm is presenting POSSIBILITIES from what is already irrefutable scientifically--the fact that there is no separation between constituent "atoms" of the known universe. Point out the vacuum if you disagree.

[lourak]

@stellar876 I am neither skeptical about the need or desire to rally peoples of diverse origins and backgrounds to the achievement of a unifying method of discourse - nor of the perhaps overly ambitious project of interpreting quantum processes in a manner that invokes some principal of wholeness. I am, however, extremely skeptical, of the attempt to extrapolate, directly, from physical laws to the cognitive realm. I first need to solve the mind /body problem before venturing into that area.

[stellar876]

@lourak What mind/body problem? Aren't you already aware of what you are? Serious question.

[lourak]

@stellar876 No, actually - to my great chagrin! Are you so AWARE? (or were you told?)

[stellar876]

@lourak Hmm...I'm not sure how one could be told such a thing. How can you NOT be aware? That's the real question.

[stellar876]

@stellar876 Well see that's the thing--you talk of "extrapolating" from observed phenomena, but what seems to be actually happening here is Bohm is observing what is ACTUALLY happening in regard to the structure of society, the depth of exploration into the potential quantum ramifications then follows, not necessarily the other way around. Nah mean?

[cunnidvd]

thank you for posting this interview.

[human2011able]

Thank You Sir!

[saharDJAMS]

the way I understand, time dose not exist, and size of the space is the main factor which cause matter to act the way it dose(change or flow),both sorunding space and space which is traped in matter,and instead of stauding the effects(time,limited mathmatics), we should have had studied the timeless space, which causes the universe to expand in everydirection.and matter to disepate its stored enegies,now how can we study something which is not of time,it dosent change,or react,and is absolut.

[Sugamari]

Truth was like a spring when there were 5billion now there is 7billion it is a river. We are the flow - we are the ocean - we are the god of the sea. They have to stop us so look out for that on every level. We are like water my friends - Tangaroa!

[bvssvni]

I like him because he has a gentle way of expressing his ideas solidly based on understanding, while many others just talk around the problem: If we spend millions of hours on something nobody can explain, shouldn't we start thinking perhaps we have something more to learn? Some thing different than 1+1=2?

[ACQUAARIA]

for sure, the quality of future of mankind depends on, which will overbalance in our all personal consciousness : the 7 death sins or the cardinal virtue.

Es bedarf daher weder einer "spukhaften Fernwirkung" noch einer sogenannten Vorsehung, denn ...

"Alles ist gut" - as long there is not any form of psychological individualistic devision in us.

If You are interested, search for "Jiddu Krishnamurti" who explained it thoroughly.

[AhamBrahman]

what a godly individual. his beauty and humility and intelligence shine through in this video

[livingearthcafe]

Wonderful

[Br1an37]

What a fantastic mind, great perception and insight into human nature. It illustrates the fact that through logical reasoning and the study of the physical laws of nature this can equip the intellect with a greater depth of understanding to be able to contemplate possible solutions to other social problems and human endeavour.

[fivedinners]

fascinating*****

[huntyaga]

Thoth`s speaking, listen to him carefully! :)

[Awhiffofsuspicion]

fascinating analogy, i suppose you could take it a little further and say out of the two, who would be more likely to turn into narrow minded extremist..

you seem a good man Roubiere i'll pester you no longer.

[Roubiere]

Yeah, or out of the two, which is more likely to rise from the dead? So there you have it. Richard Feynman: leader of the zombie revolt. I rest my case.

[Awhiffofsuspicion]

my comment certainly was'nt meant as derogatory Roubiere, im just stating what was apparent to me, both scientist have devoted followers though how they interpret the bigger picture is some what different. i'd like to think those who are inspired by david are nowhere near as cynical of others views as those who think of feynman as some diety.

[Roubiere]

Oh I wasn't offended. I just didn't know what you meant and didn't feel like looking up the Feynman video. That's fascinating. If I were to give an analogy of the two, I'd see Feynman as Jesus and Bohm as Socrates. Jesus has the answers and speaks dogmatically; he makes lectures, not dialogues. That's Feynman's approach. Socrates claims ignorance but wants to discuss the merits of all ideas, even if he ultimately shoots many down. He values dialogue. That's Bohm's approach.

Cheers!

[antimatterXXXIII]

@Roubiere It is a good analogy, although overwrought. Feynman was always suffering from a sort of inferiority complex regarding the more abstract issues in physics, which he never wanted to confront - he would fall back on his unsurpassed skill at calculation and reliance on his powerful intuition. But someone like Bohm is on another level - not satisfied with facile answers - constantly striving to sharpen his understanding and more, to communicate it clearly.

[bobo007xx]

@Roubiere jesus valued dialogue.u do him a disservice.like the rest of the world.

[jacksawild]

@bobo007xx Jesus spoke in riddles and parables.

[Awhiffofsuspicion]

my my, the difference between this discussional thread and the one on ffree thinkers feynman video clip is vast, interpretation eh!

[Roubiere]

Pardon?

[godhelpme2009]

There is an experiment that Bohm has descibed. He called it Dialogue. Since his initial explorations of this theory & design people have taken some of the form & turned it into less ambitious, but maybe still useful models.This has been happening at some academic institutes & even more in the business corporations.Bohm's Dialogue is very well thought out & is a consistent aspect of his theory of the Implicate Order. I highly recommend engaging in this exploration of collaborative inquiry

[Awhiffofsuspicion]

thank you roubiere.

[jexphe2k]

World view should give more focus on LOVE and not on FEAR. Materialistic thinking should be discourage on TRI-MEDIA. One World thinking can be achieved if our TRUE and CONCEALED history are revealed. Nature will stay but humanity will vanish if societies are fragmented in thinking. Earth do not need human, but human need Earth in order to exist.

[ObeeLektro]

A beautiful mind, humble gentle and ingenious. A man who had a lot deeper glimpse into the nature of our existence. This is the very first time I have heard this man, but it immediately spoke to my deeper intuitive greater truth. Ingenious and profound.

[tatsumakisempyukaku]

I also want to pout out that bohm admits that in smaller groups, maintaining a collective unity was easier as compared to the myriad of variations on how people see the world when you such high populations. Note that collectivism is only possible in small groups. In large groups, collectivism is possible only via large scale emergencies. Otherwise, during times of peace capitalism is best so as to allow the free voluntary exchange of ideas.

[knowbody74]

its spiritual,not political

[IntuitiveLeap]

@tatsumakisempyukaku you said "Otherwise, during times of peace capitalism is best so as to allow the free voluntary exchange of ideas." Have you thought of any other means of freely and voluntarily sharing ideas? I don't know that David Bohm would have equated free and voluntary sharing of ideas with any 'top down' imposed, artificial valuation system. But I could be wrong.

[tatsumakisempyukaku]

@IntuitiveLeap: Well people will always share ideas no matter what the system. its just that, the freer the system the more easily and quickly the ideas are shared. That is why in dictatorial, totalitarian or oligarchical governments are always less advanced and less prosperous than freer nations. Any evidence shown that such brutal governments have technology and a growing economy is not evidence for this type of system but evidence that this system has made a move towards freedom.

[tatsumakisempyukaku]

I find the whole locust analogy good also, but what is the solution? I still believe that a free market approach is best. When resources become scarce prices sky rocket thereby limiting the number of people who can afford a resource or is willing to pay the higher price. Also, innovations come to being replacing the need for such and such resource for such and such a problem.

[zetterberg]

I like the analogy at 3:04 regarding humanity and its current trend and disregard for resources. Particularly how he cracks himself up while comparing them to "hoards of locusts descending on the planet"

[mijmijrm]

according to the alchemical formula:

"As above, so below. As below, so above."

(for some reason, quotes of this always seem to miss the last part out. Assuming it's not important, or repetition or something, i guess.)

[PaulusvdMerwe]

Thank you so much for publishing this important information!

[Freaknfrogger]

Excellent!!! It is incredible how long it takes for people to accept the rational basis for this perception of reality.

[seanmPWH]

I watched all of the interview; I like his idea of putting some meat on the Copenhagen QM bones, I believe Einstein will be vindicated. BTW check out Lewis Little's Theory of Elementary Waves. I do however believe Bohm's being too humanistic. a true holistic world view is going to have to make room for diverse values, although I agree with his objection to runaway capitalism,  one size fits all socialism will be just as disastrous. We must return to primitive tribalism, that's all.

[hbar1212]

You can put the argument in economic terms. If we say we have to put US economic interest first, that's sort of true. If you say we have to put global interests first. That's sort of true. If you say that we can work it out, with that attitude, we can. Bohm says we can have different perspective on reality, life, physics and everything else and still work as if it's all true, because in a way, it is, if there's no time. There are many truths, sometimes one is true then and later another.

[lysergicwindow]

Amazing! Many thanks for posting this... I think we all need to see this inspirational talk about how spirituality, physics and world views interchange. TOP NOTCH Roubiere!

[DiGiTaLdAzEDM]

When I first encountered Bohms' views they harmonized closely with how I have felt intuitively about things from an early age. His efforts to create a new interpretation of the findings of quantumn field theory makes him a very original thinker--although this may not sound very scientific, on a deeper level many of his ideas feel 'right' to me.

[ForABetterTomorrow]

Yes, very interesting, thanks :)

I've read some of his theories and I'm beginning to understand why I `lost` my last quantum theory vs Objectivism debate ;)

[johnhart30]

Its always good to hear people like Bohm talk about sustainability and population. The governments of the world should listen closely to this man.

[MrCropper]

"Its always good to hear people like Bohm talk about sustainability and population."

His message is infinitely more important than inane stuff like population sustainability. He is offering a new world view akin to the Copernican revolution.

[johnhart30]

I understand that but remember a lot of the You Tube audience doesn't have a clue what he is talking about so one must relate to it in layman's terms so they understand it themselves.

Many on this site are not here for education, but rather, information. By no means does that equate to viewers understanding the complexity of his message.

[hyperseauton]

Cropper?! You see yourself in agreement with Bohm?

Thank you for giving me hope that a better world is possible when MrCropper listens to David Bohm...

[zenlama]

Thanks for making this series available. After reading Wholeness and The Implicate Order, I have been reading up on all Bohm's ideas. I have no doubt he is one of the greatest and largely undiscovered minds of our present era.

[VictoryofPeace]

I agree with you completely zenlama. I am currently reading Wholeness and The Implicate Order. Bohm has had a huge influence on me, at a scientific and spiritual level.

There is a biography on David Bohm called "Infinite Potential - The Life and Times of David Bohm" by David Peat. Check it out!