Sam Harris: Faith vs. Reason in the Modern World (2/5)

[blessmess]

removing negative faith thinking is a positive thing. god is an idea. ideas cant be proven true or false, because they arent real. god is possible. is god in front of you no. would i dedicate my life to this no. its not bad...

[TheFestivelights]

Sam is my new hero. A true voice of reason. Wonder how long it will be before he gets his first death threat?

[JuanchoMan]

terribly sorry you got votebotted mate, i guess since theists can't use logic, reason or evidence to support their outlandish claims they are left with no choice but to resort to underhanded means such as votebotting :) really shows how they have no foundation in which to stand on in the first place.

[Parvenu90]

4:40 LOL Sam Harris got jokes.

[4bbc]

"I do not insist that a person should have faith in God. I refuse to call any person a Naasthika (an atheist). Beings exist as a result of His Will, in accordance with His Plan; so no one is beyond His Grace. Besides, every one has Love towards some one thing or other, and that Love is a spark of the Divine; every one has ultimately to base his life on some one Truth; that Truth is God."

- Sathya Sai Baba

[4bbc]

Your journey starts with self-confidence and ends with the realisation of the Self.

[johnpotter26]

I'm kind of surprised there are even 239 dislikes

[shwetal56]

@johnpotter26 It's shady... All 5 parts have about 240 dislikes whereas number of likes varies..

[ciaochowbella]

@shwetal56 That's quaintly called "vote-botting".

[rgs11]

What church is this? I hope there's one in my city; I loved his sermon.

[shandcunt]

When it is explained this way, I cannot understand how someone could still be religous except for pure ignorance

[CntrBrdr]

239 thumbs down because you're all butthurt. sam harris owned your faulty metaphysics.

[JM11941]

It was a breath of fresh air (and for me, a release of some personal frustration) for someone to finally point out that the premise "religion is 'good' for society" even if true is wholly irrelevant to the veracity of any religion.

A video so excellent and part of an excellent series, it is a shame that it has been viewed only 17,976 times.

[TonyBtheEG]

Sam Harris is hilarious intelligent. He's awesome.

[rooflee]

Lol, why all the thumbs down? Sam Harris is one of the best speakers on this subject that I've seen so far. Hitchens and Dawkins don't have all these thumbs down...wtf is going on?

[Killicon93]

@rooflee Too many religious bigots maybe?

[adraim69]

@rooflee I think it's a fantastic sign my friend. It means the people who should be hearing it, are hearing it (which is to say, people who don't like what he's saying). That being said... it could have just been a vote bot, in which case my optimism is ill conceived.

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

good youtube vids about science and well-being,neuroscience,medita­tion,compassion,relationships:

Dan Siegel Google Talk

Dan Rather Mind Science (1 thru 6)

[shadowq8]

A lot of rage in this one. I thought you were here for a discussion apparently you are only here to vent your rage. Come back when you want to discuss.

[shadowq8]

I see you are too afraid to face the truth. Why don't you look it up then? And site sources?

[shadowq8]

Are you saying that the greeks said that religion = no science?

Or that the greeks started the observational process ?

If it is the second then look up Ibn Al haytham, and the History of the scientific method.

[lumpfish99]

why is he talking about sai baba?? he has been discredited years ago....1 million people turning out to his birthday in india is nothing...the country has the 2nd largest population in the world remember....either way real hindus laugh at that guy...yes, he very much is a fringe figure.....

[poului]

...still almost a million more than the number of fellas who would have turned up to Christ's birthday when he was alive.

[lumpfish99]

there are a lot of uneducated folk out there!

[matthewdoucette]

when i first watched this speech... i didn't even hear the laughter... the points were too serious to laugh at.

[shadowq8]

o boy here we go agn.

Look up science and Islam.

Accomplishments by Muslim scientists set the basis for the modern world, especially the whole process of setting up the observational process for experiments.

[ClumsyRoot]

How is the fact that they were Muslims relevant at all?

[shadowq8]

athiests think

religion = no science

[Innize]

Another point for Harris would be that religious "service" is really more like a job than volunteering. If I spend years, helping at a homeless shelter, it looks noble. However, when you hear that I'm receiving a paycheck at the end of the month, it seems that I'm doing this because of the reward I'll expect to get.

Religious "service" is selfishness portrayed as selflessness.

[Iambecome]

Theistic religion is almost unimaginably retarded, literally. Harris shouldn't have to argue against something so absurd - his mind should be free to focus on science, philosophy, etc, deeper things, not the unbelievably stupid delusions that make up organised religion.

It amazes me, blows my fucking mind.

[RaymondCorrigan]

Yeah, what a horrible waste of a brilliant mind.

But it sounds like he's enjoying himself.

[Iambecome]

True. I guess there's that. Hitchens also seems to enjoy himself.

[skaloon]

@Iambecome

yeah. i had the same thought. how many good thinkers, phylosophers and so on wasted so much time on fighting fairy tale.

[TheYipedo]

@Iambecome The problem here, as Richard Dawkins has stated, is because for Richard for example, he can't focus on teaching evolution when there are millions of people out there trying to undermine his teachings. He said he used to not care much about religion until he felt threatened by creationists. If they don't fight religion, the scientific community and progress will suffer.

It's very sad to think that they really have to waste their time with this, but it's necessary.

[no1hoopsman]

@TheYipedo I suggest that is the price of scientific discovery in essence, he is also selling books and not all science agrees with him or Harris in all their views especially since they have to paint a caricature of religion to achieve their aims

[TheFestivelights]

@no1hoopsman I really don't believe that Hitchens, Harris or Dawkins are doing this solely for profit. Yes, like everyone, they need to make a living, but I'm sure that their main motivation to 'save us' from the insanity of religion, before it destroys all of us and everything on the planet.

[no1hoopsman]

@TheFestivelights Well he does paint a caricature of religion; that's undoubtedly true, his God is the fundamentalist one that the extremist requires and the vast majority of ordinary people don't; that's where his being disingenious is problemmatic I feel

[RoboDouche]

Harris's opening argument should be beneath him. That God wrote the bible is not a religious doctrine. The authors of the books even have their names on them. 'Pauls letter to the Corinthians', etcetera. God didnt write the bible. People wrote the bible. Even the bible says that people wrote the bible.

[JesterIMC]

...right...and who do they say inspired those people to write that? divine inspiration, God.

that argument isn't beneath him, but its apparently above you.

[RoboDouche]

He isn't talking about divine inspiration. And if he is, and is willing to do so in such simplistic and frankly silly terms, then that too ought be beneath him. 'Who do they say inspired those people to write that?' ...Well, firstly who is the 'they' you refer to, and why should I listen to them? People say a lot of things. And secondly, the different books are typically thought to have different inspirations, none of which include God having dictated what was written.

[RoboDouche]

By the way, thanks for making it personal. As opposed to you know, a mutual exchange of ideas.

"that argument isn't beneath him, but its apparently above you."

Nothing quite like anonymously insulting a stranger on the internet is there.

[JesterIMC]

I was merely extending your metaphor about Sam Harris argument being beneath him..

you seem to not get the argument, ergo, it is above/beyond you... kinda like how quantum psychics is above me :P

[RoboDouche]

I get the argument fine. Like far too much of contemporary popular criticism of religion it relies on caricature and straw-man reasoning. Of course, the fact that it does so is much of the reason for its appeal. The guys writing the complex, subtle critiques all get ignored, while the undisciplined show ponies receive international attention. ...A shame.

[JesterIMC]

"undisciplined show ponies"

I can't assume you are talking about Harris, but I get that jist when I read your comment. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

however...I have to ask, have you honestly read any of Sam Harris' books? I am currently reading the end of faith and this guy is _extremely_ intelligent and very well educated. I don't get what your problem with him is. Is it because he is challenging your personal faith?

He is doing a great thing, promoting reason and rational thinking.

[kablamo9999]

Lots of people do hold the religious belief that their god wrote the Bible, and it's probably that belief he's going after.

[CntrBrdr]

epic!

[mlemaro]

How do you spell "Satius Sibaba", and how do you find these claims about him?

[SHAATALE]

satya sai baba

[mrbunsen]

effing. brilliant.

[tigerw222]

according to religion ur suppose to help ppl out of the goodness of ur heart, and not because god wants you to. if u do it because god wants you to he sees you and dont give u credit for it. im not religious im just saying

[sam51092]

(Sorry, the above comment was from me, just on the wrong user account...)

[MaikUniversum]

good speech :)

[fiercegallantry]

Weak.

[Chemicalogic]

How so? Weak because it makes your beliefs sound silly?

[Skavenone]

I have to disagree. It's perfectly fine to deep fry all your food.

[nima90]

Expertly spoken Harris!

[entity3sf]

When I first heard this on PBS I was so very impressed with his simple, unemotional, non-offensive reasoning. Some people criticize Hitchens for being offensive and emotional. I really enjoy Hitchens. He is just very sure of himself.

[nocab1984]

yeah but if I had to choose one to debate for my life I'd choose hitchens

[entity3sf]

True. There is a really good speaker and Cultural Anthropologist Pascal Boyer on why we believe in it.

[sam51092]

You know, I think I'll live longer because of the whole 'new atheist' thing. It can be hilarious, and all the while contending in a humanitarian cause. I only wish it was called something like the 'anti-dogmatist' movement,which is more on the money and avoids accusations like 'atheism is a dogma too'. Ah well, what you gonna do.

[entity3sf]

Exactly. Anti-dogma is not an "ism", a philosophy, a religion, or an anti-religion or philosophy, it just is.

[DetectiveTackett]

Uh, no. Harris is dogmatic. He is just blind to his own dogmatism. Like many viewers of this clip.

Harris fails to offer any viable alternative to religious world-views. He seems unconcerned with basic questions of epistemology & metaphysics. He is relying on the blind, emotional support of people who share his assumptions.

And he is succeeding with most of you.

[sam51092]

So being against dogmatism is, itself, dogmatic?

Ok, so if you are against Harris' 'dogmatism', wouldn't that make YOU dogmatic??

[DetectiveTackett]

You miss my point. Harris is not against dogmatism. He is against certain forms of dogmatism.  He is all in favor of his own brand of dogmatism.

[pp0u50f3]

haha so true, this is a "sam harrisesque" answer

[boorens18]

@sam51092 your logic is irrefutable

[EzraTwitch]

@sam51092 Thats like saying your a bigot if your against bigotry. There is a difference between blind belief and reasoned belief. Also if you watch this ENTIRE speech not just this little clip he addresses your point directly.

[sam51092]

@EzraTwitch I think you are making the same point I was...

[disdanic]

I agree, Sam has a great spontaneous sense of humour. And his delivery is always so calm and composed, I've never sense him flustered in the slightest in front of an audience.

[plevyman]

I've not seen Sam Harris speak before, he's actually very good. I'm impressed!

[Sondre7]

Sam Harris is my personal Jesus!

[astat1]

Does he love you? Did he give his life for you?

[Sondre7]

He's my savior :D Unlike your imaginary friend

[RainMan52]

"Thou shall not fry thy food"

verse 3; line 32

epic !!

[spacecowboy95]

i could go gay for sam, but then that would be a sin.

[hehateme8999]

I really admire this guy. I have never seen someone speak so eloquently and combine humor so well. I think I almost have a man crush as well.

[sylviabombs15]

i think i have a man crush on sam harris.

[MuhammadChrist]

I love this guys work. I've seen meet the parents about 10 times

[underbedbeast]

We don't need to be threatened with damnation to behave well!

[NMBS1]

Great post

[RRJ1]

The co-evolution of religion alone should be enough to convince "believers" otherwise.

Sam Harris is a smart man and I enjoy his work very much, but what him and other atheists fail to recognize, or at least fail to discuss upon, is the biology and physiology of a belief in god. Principally the development of the neocortices. It's important to first recognize why we have evolved to think in a certain way rather to discuss the philosophy of it beforehand.

[Kille24sthlm]

Is that Ben Stiller?

[TooCloseToTheSun]

I'll bet he gets that all the time.

[martynblackburn1977]

I didn`t realise how attractive Sam looks. Excellent!

[stocks26]

I could go gay for Sam!

[stocks26]

Just joking there.

[fatefinger]

Hey, christians will just say that gd told Newton about all that stuff. That how they think, everything is gd. Everything is insane.

[rickdg]

Preaching to the choir.

[Antichrist4Life]

This man is a god.

[SpiralingOut23]

Sam Harris is IMHO the best New Atheist. He is insightful, fair, and painfully honest. We need many more people like him.

[DadLabs]

Smart guy.

[siciliano29]

Yes, he's smart, but this should all be common sense to someone with even average intelligence. My point is, if not for religion, everyone might be this "smart". Either way, I'm a big fan of his - ALL his lectures are well put together, and insightful.

[dchapman2020]

@siciliano29 I understand what you're trying to say, but Harris would disagree. He makes it clear that intelligence isn't the problem, otherwise people who have the capacity to build a nuclear bomb wouldn't use it for theological means.

[ytsejam315]

@siciliano29 I think you overestimate what average intelligence is.

[jogayot]

i feel a sudden urge to have my image engraven in stone...

[bfayer]

very entertaining, I always find atheist seminars a little pointless though. If someone is swayed by reason and logic then they are already atheist or agnostic.

[PiroNiro]

Unlike a religious sermon, the goal of a lecture such as this one is not be to convert or preach, but rather to put forth a proposition and defend or support it.

[TechnojunkFactory]

Here!!! Here!!! :)

[ArgueExplain]

@bfayer There are a lot of people that are already in a faith system that need a counter-point to compare their world view against. A lot of children are brainwashed into believing whatever religion their parents want them to believe, and it is very difficult for them to break that unless they have someone like Harris, Hitchens, or Dawkins to shake them of whatever dogma they are trapped in.

[mpower20]

@bfayer that's an interesting perspective, I never thought of it that way. I suppose you're right, anyone already watching this, or that had attended this, and not, say, shown this by a friend or relative, is already an atheist/agnostic