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From: Gebanno1
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  • idk but to me it sounds like the supra missed a gear ...

  • looks like the VR4 won

  • Kick Ass 3000GT.

  • @Dungeonescraib Did some cursory searching and didn't find any solid info on AJ Berg or his car, but I did find several forums talking about the 6g72 being a little more stout than I expected. I have first hand experience with it only in a 3g eclipse, which as you mentioned has weak pistons (half true if RPW's research into balanced cams is to be believed). I don't even know what 4 bolt or incorporated girdle mean, but isn't the vr4 the only 6g72 with a forged crank?

  • @Osillius The piston thing applies to all 6g72 - none have forged pistons unlike the 2JZ - the cam problems on the eclipse I don't doubt. Yes, the VR4 is the only one with a forged crank. A 4-bolt main means the main cap has 4 bolts attaching it to the block which increases the strength immensely, and is usually used for Heavy duty or drag racing applications. A main girdle is a plate connecting the main caps to prevent flex under high load (cont.)*

  • @Osillius (cont.) which is a rare feature and usually is added in very high output applications like drag racers as well. In addition, the forged crank vr4 also has a nitride coating on the crank, a very strong form of hardening. So as far as the block goes, it's tough as nails. Seeing less 1khp 3k's probably has more to do with the difficulty with transverse engines, the trans/transfer case, and the fact that it requires actual engine work for high output more then the block itself.

  • @Osillius As far as AJ Berge* goes, I think there are pictures of one of his cars on 3si.org, but I don't think you'll find too much on him. I don't think that is the 1800hp one though, just a 6g72 powered pro-stock car.

  • @Dungeonescraib Would you happen to know if the vr4 crank would work with a 2 bolt 6g72? Maybe an unnecessary upgrade for me anyway since I'm only goingfor around 400whp? I was considering trying out RPW's balanced cams which claim to keep the pistons safe @14psi and was a less expensive route than getting new pistons. 3si and club3g had very little info on the crank or the balanced cams, everyone on club 3g just screams to replace pistons and 3si feels like sifting through 20 years of archives.

  • @Osillius I'm certain it would but I haven't heard of anyone doing it firsthand.

  • @Osillius

    Yup ... the crank will work perfectly. It`s the same but it came as a forged crank in the later models.

  • Can we get a link to the 3k specs? I'm having a hard time believing 1000whp on a single turbo with a 6g72 platform. I'd love to be wrong....or to see someone hotwire a 75/mivec in there boosted to oblivion.

  • Comment removed

  • @Osillius Google - there are lots of 1000awhp 6g72. In fact if you look hard enough there's a man by the name of AJ Berg who ran 1800hp on the stock bottom end for drags. The 4-bolt, incorperated girdle, forged crank 6g72 is a monster, it's of a much higher quality then the one's in say, the 3rd gen eclipses. It has it's weak point in the pistons (among other things) which are not very strong and need replacing, but block wise it is at least as strong if not stronger then the 2JZ block.

  • i didn't know calculators came with camera's!

  • there clapping like its a movie. lol

  • omg what world are they from it looks like water wolrd the way the camera is filming

  • Was just the launch. AWD beats RWD at launching ON THE STREET everytime.

    AWD ftw. They make AWD supras there called Nissan skylines haha

  • what turbo is the 3000gt using? also what exhaust?

  • @fleetfeet2004

    Sound Performance modified Garrett GT42R ..... and the exhaust is all custom designed and made for performance with as little sound as possible as it is a street car :-)

  • Which pixel is the supra?

  • Comment removed

  • the guys that keep talking shit cus the supra does not win are just a bunch of dumbF**Ks that watched THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS way too many times. THE SUPRA IS NOT UNBEATABLE.....

  • @8erika3ella1 NO ITS NOT NOTHING CAN BEAT A FUCKING SUPRA!!!!!! OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES!!!!!!! hahaha Yeah, that is funny how people get their panties in a bunch after watching a movie and start to think that a certain car is unbeatable because of it. Though a lot of honda fans are the same way. They think they're car is the shit when it's absolute shit. haha

  • @Orangys280Z your stupid.

  • @jmcskatex You're a dumbass little cunt that's too stupid to see that I WAS NOT being serious about that. Pull you head out of your ass dumb ass bitch!

  • i could never mod a 3000gt, the engine is squished under the hood and there is seriously no room with its 4 radiators and big engine block . to get to one part you need to take of lots of otheres. but if you have the time and you dont get fustrated easily then its a great car

  • @MattHamilton101 4 radiators? jesus christ, what 3000gt have you worked on? mine only has one radiator hahahaha.

  • @GregRobinson156 never worked on one but seen one (vr4 tt) and heard that it has 1 main radi and 3 minor radis.... fuk knows if im right but anyway i have seen an engine bay and the comment still stands

  • @MattHamilton101 did you mean one radiator, two side mount intercoolers, and one oil cooler?

  • @MattHamilton101 its not that its a pain in the ass to work on. roughly blaming the engine lay out.. and awd transmission. but in terms of a engine. thats a engine just as solid as the 2jz :) i dont know what year this vr4 is. the stock block on the vr4 can handle the same amount of power the stock 2jz block can. just the vr4 will produce more torque in my opinion. i think it makes like 320hp 300tq stock. roughly. but the awd gives it a 30% power loss so. then again. i just love the awd :)

  • do people not know that if you have rwd YOU WILL NOT get as good of traction as an awd car lol. god people are dumb

  • @iruleyou87 you must not know drag racing then

  • @iruleyou87 Dude...you're a retard. How many All Wheel Drive Top Fuel Dragsters or Funny Cars do you see out there? Once you have enough power and rear traction to transfer weight from the front tires, all wheel drive is irrelevant. AWD is basically just a crutch for people who run the wrong wheels and tires and who don't bother to set up their rear suspension for drag racing.

  • I liked those trees at the end.. lol

  • @kinkyflicks

    Man, 3000gt's out-handle any other car from that era.

  • the 3000gt drives heavy like a schoolbus with all the seats filled lol

  • no potato allowed in this area

  • DAMN!! shitz fast..i have a 92 vr4..if i had the money right now i would buy a supra also

  • let me go take a shit.

  • yeah i just got 3000gt vr4 and realy fast very good cars

  • both cars runnin anti lag or 2 step and 3000gt smoked the shot out da supra vr4 all the way

  • @Chicostreetracing but dont it also stand to reason to let the supra off as the 3000gt has 4WD?

  • sounds like one of them is running anti-lag to defo need a better cam ppl they ant tht costly :)

  • i bet that vr4 wouldnt stand much in a rolling race. only advantage it had their was awd. the supra clearly spun alot on take off.

  • @Banksyboy03

    Yeah it did spin "a lot" (the tire marks are after his burnout) .... on drag-radials .... even after it warmed the tires ...... And all I had was street tires, a passenger and some luggage in the trunk ..... Sooooooo what does that tell you about a "real" streetrace between the two ??? In a rolling race I would have eaten him alive. spit him out and backed over him .... :-)

  • @Banksyboy03 i dont think so u can clearly see the supra wasnt closing the gap

  • your 3000gt has more power then the supra so yeah it well win, but it dose not matter if it has 2000hp in it because,

    the supra well alway be the most respected car on the road's today stock or modified it is one of them legend car's it dose not matter how old it is, it well alway's be respected as one of the best car's ever made

  • @essexoffroading yeah supra r nice cars, but i'd have 3000gt over one anyday , they so un-rated lol

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  • Wow a 300+hp advantage haha...of course tje 3000gt had it in the bag but nice race!!! Loved the supra!!

  • @TEK1000hp 3000gts however are extremely heavy, im sure the supra is faster on the top end.

  • @Jetkillr How could a supra be faster on the end? theres a 300 HP difference.

  • @MyStangGetsAss there are several factors the come into play. the VR4 is allwheel drive and loses a significant amount of power through the drivetrain. Also there is a weight factor where the VR4 weighs a lot more. Also depending on the gear ratios of the vehicles comes into play. the Vr4s biggest advantage is at the start. Once they get rolling then the supra has a much better chance. i dont know for sure if the supra is faster. just a guess though.

  • Looks like the VR4 could have smoked that supra stock  !!!

  • @ryosvet

    haha dumbshit its AWD

  • supra its a great car but dam 300gt let my mouth open

  • 3000GT destroyed that supra!

  • that 3000 blew that supra away

  • @ryosvet lol its awd not fwd (vr4)

  • @AxeofDeath666

    darn.... didnt kno that. but you know what i mean lolz

  • @matthewrockslol22 your lame and 3000gts have a deeper sound in general "FOOL" why you getting so mad? you mad cause supras sucks?

  • @matthewrockslol22 you just mad cause supras suck donkey balls

  • @AxeofDeath666 are u kdding? a 2jze supra would rape any 3000gt any day

  • @matthewrockslol22 lawl alright man whatever you say, 3000gt vr4 will always be a better car plain and simple.

  • @ axeofdeath666: this 3kgt just handed the supras ass to the supra driver.

    not as many people have built 3kgt's like they have supras and skylines.

    but the few 3kgts that sre built and built right cant take either (supra or skyline)out.

    id like to see the video of your datsun B210 or honda accord take on this 3kgt.

    PUT UP OR GO HOME

  • @ryosvet Im pretty sure thats a VR4 AWD version you noob

  • its a conspiracy

  • lol three guys filming the same cheap quality cell phone video...

    one guy tries to zoom and hits the pole,

    the cars just dissapear half way in this video...

    theres about 7 cameramen in this video, can we get a decent shot of this thing or wat?

  • @zidumare

    Ur pretty cocky about your vr4, go and challenge ryan whoon rsp supra, then posted on youtube, then we'll talk. Or one of titan's orange race car. Okay 1200hp vs 1200hp monster. Either way nice cars, just pm me if you want to, Ill pm him on supraforums, and we could have a show down with lots of money @ steak.

  • Such unfair drag race rwd vs awd.... of course awd will win

  • Yeah the supra lost traction.

  • fuck that 3gkt is making 1300hp, next time go race that one black supra own by hummm, Ryan Woon, that'll be a even match.

  • @mauihawj you're talkin bout SW.... ryan's car was silver last time i checked (can always paint a car tho)

  • supra didnt even hook guys, if it would have hook different story. Its like me racing a stock 300z tt from a roll, sure hes going to get a jump since his twins spools instantly, but when my single spools up, im gone, and spinning 2nd gear as will, still kills the 300z. Vr4 has my respect though, maybe the only mit. other then the gsx i would buy, but its still made by ford, and we all know wat happens, ford suck.

  • 6G72 MITSU POWER!

  • Supra won my ass, that 300 chopped its arse from the start line. No way in hell that supra would have cought up.

    Supra with 700HP, big flop, its done to death, but not a 1000HP 300.

  • AWD owns RWD

  • was this filmed on a spy camera???

  • @89jdm7m nah filmed with a toothbrush

  • @Dia142 like is said... spy camera, lol

  • 1000+hp awd vs 700hp rwd...i dont care what it is hp is hp...this race really doesn't make sense a great race ofcourse those are big numbers but we all know who is going to win numbers dont lie lol

  • Look up fastnelson, an early video of the 3000gt, 9.62@152 mph, with a 5 speed tranny, maybe even on street tires, he spun that all wheel drive pretty hard. 46 seconds of truth right there.

  • @blackBLUR89 9.6 and only trapping 152 with 1300hp...enough said nelson is weak,look up dynamic racings stealth...And btw i know who nelson is and what he's done(nothing)except screw alot of people over in the 3/s community.

  • @spooling1g I dont really care what he has done pubiclly as far as products and customer service are concerned. Hes still making more power to the wheels than you or I combined. And i dont need to look up shit, I know all about dynamic racing, altered atmosphere, Im a member of 3si, and a loyal fan/customer of 3sx. And weighing in at 3700 lbs and running anything under a 10.5 with a the stock gearbox is pretty dam good in my book.

  • @spooling1g and since you mentioned matt monets 1st gen stealth, may i remind you that he has a fully gutted interior and slicks, and is NOT making over 1300 to the wheels. Nelson probably has a full interior in that video, and a bone stock a stealth is always 70 to 80 lbs(give or take) than a 3kgt. Im sure if nelson guts his whip and bolts on sum slicks, he'll be setting records too. Or as you put it, enough said.

  • @spooling1g lighter. I meant 70 to 80lbs LIGHTER than a 3kgt.

  • @blackBLUR89 I'm am a member of 3si too,but it don't change the fact nelson is a piece of shit and he can't drive,Now don't get me wrong 1300hp is no joke and i applaud him doing it but he will never set any records...All good though i ain't trying to argue anymore everyone has opinions.

  • @spooling1g cool beens. 

  • @mario102395 if dodge stealths and 3000gts r garbage y did nelson performance build a 1348 hp monster and run 7 and 8 in the quarter? and they stopped making them because of emissions regulations, not because of poor quality or sales. Do your homework. Daddy has spoken. Period.

  • @blackBLUR89 When did this happen???Ohh ya it didn't,nelson is worthless.

  • @spooling1g Worthless you say? Not even. There are several videos on here of the white 3000gt with a monster 3.6L (6g74) twin turbo makin well over 1300 horses, most likely to the wheels. Look it up. And they take the car to the strip, and while I may be off about the sub-8/7 second times, it isnt just any mid 10 sec. car. And as to when it happened, who the fuck cares? It happened, and thats all a hater or a fan of the 3/S platform needs to know. Thanks for responding.

  • Look at the Supra tire marks on the ground after launch :o

    geez!

  • Expected results with AWD and that much power.

  • well cant say for sure they are both equal i currently own a 3000gt a had the engine rebuilt and planing to sc the 6g72

  • both are great car but supra weight less and also are RWD less power loss compared to AWD, so after a while that supra might catch up but doubtful both great motors but the 3000gt like to rod knock

  • aaaaaaaaaaaaand they were gone O.O

  • 3000 gts and stealth are way better cars than supra will ever be all around. and that 3000 is WAY heavier than that supra

  • @oakforest301 what do you think about the GTO's? not talking about Pontiac

  • @oakforest301 yeah if u like buying new transmissions and lifters every year. Then yes they are better. I've driven both and there is no comparison of the two. stealths/3000gt's are heavy awd cars that oversteer so bad when pushed hard. supra can be pushed to the limits and still be forgiving when needed. They dont have to go to the shop everyother time u drive them either. Just saying from experience.

  • AWD ftw

  • @nihiliz so I guess you have a car that has a max 200hp and are afraid real cars and power. and for your inf. i dont own a AWD only Supra but I still agree the AWD is best like Skyline and I would trade in my Supra for Skyline in any day.

  • @SiliconeMonkey lol, yeah 200hp max, im prolly seeing id say max 150HP with my 2j 1987 supra with 1200cc persicion topfeed injectors, 3x walbro's, aem ems, aem water/meth injection, q45 tb, aeromotive afpr, 1 peice ds, greddy t88, and i could go on more. :)

  • @nihiliz have to give a props for you at least you have a good taste to what do get but dont diss AWD cars like Skyline and all the WRC cars. but for my op. AWD eclipse is pos so on that one I have to agree. I know its harder and a challenge to control RWD that has a 1000HP+ so I dont say its easy and RWD guys are pussys. still AWD has edge over AWD and cant argue with that

  • @SiliconeMonkey oops I made typo, I meant AWD has edge over RWD

  • @nihiliz just wanna say that we can keep arguing but end of the day it all depends where you gonna use your car. like Drift RWD is the best and everybody knows it. looking at your setup I would say you drag, but me I only go to track for my setup it would be the best ultimate throttle response and AWD where I wish I had a Skyline right now :) and thats the way I look cars as how I would drive them at track. AWD is for pussys is like saying drag is for pussys who only can drive straight? not true

  • @nihiliz AWD is not for pussys Real sports cars should have AWD. Whats the point having 1000HP+ when you cant but the power to the ground and what would be the best way to do it is AWD and tell the WRC drivers that they are pussys because all the cars are AWD

  • @nihiliz

    So anyone who drives an AWD car is taking the "easy route"? Don't make me laugh. We all know the troubles that come with AWD. It's not a matter of easy route or not, it's simply preference. Like winter, you don't see people rushing to buy RWD cars, no. People buy what they want, and what they need at that time. If one wants AWD, who says that can't have AWD. TBH, anyone who doesn't get AWD just make it harder for yourself during those bad weathers.

  • @LeXiO88 lol, why would you drive your "project" into the elements,. my supra never see's rain, snow, nothing. only nice days, because i take care of it. and im not a fan of rusty undercarraiges :)

  • @hillbilly4life56

    I guess you missed the WHOLE point. It's not a matter of when you take it out. It's like saying, "I'll wait until winter." Really, you don't do that. There is no connection between AWD and elements. One could own an AWD car and still keep it in good condition. No one likes rust, especially racers, hence why even some AWD owners don't take their car out during the rain and winter.

  • @nihiliz i thought awd was for people who wanna get off the line fast instead of spinning their wheels like a fucken retard

  • Suck it SUPRA !!

  • ya idk maybe its just me but the majority of videos on youtube of supras racing, they loose...

  • Where is this shot taken ??

    And what shacky camera everyone (not everyone) ;)  uses...?!?

    It's like a dildo with camera function....

  • 3000gt is awd if its a vr4... that would explain the incredible launch.

  • show me a dyno slip, I want to see a 1000 hp from this 3000gt....please.

  • I had a '93 VR4 with mild mods. That was a fast fukn car. Supras are fast but I think the VR4 looks more exotic and I could outrun most anything I came across from a 60 roll. Nice.

  • that supras burning the whole time on that take off, that vr4 has more engine work and is all wheel drive, goood shit

  • the supra had no traction out the hole.would like to see them rolling and 3ks had 300hp more than supra.

  • Yeah but the 3000gt also has a shitload more weight than the supra so its fair

  • @AxeofDeath666 stock vs stock... i think vr-4 weighs 300lbs more... 1hp/1lb? lol

  • ummm they weigh about the same, you can read the brocure i take it. i had my supra weighed. i dident gut it to lose weight haha, everything stock it weighed 3.985 lbs. Also these supras are very LIGHT in the assend. they barly get traction. unlike the 3000gt vr4, its awd.. so there for it is Unfair. i want to see the same video of them both starting from lets say maybe a 60mph roll. Than we will talk :) not dissing u, or the vr4.

  • I respect you for not dissing me like most other people would and yes i would love to see that to but there is about a 400lb difference if you look it up between a turbo supra and a 3000gt vr4, i personally think that the twin turbos will still beast on the supra because twin turbos are ment for massive boosts in high and low rpms. Believe me a 400lb difference means alot wether or not it seems like a big difference compared to the actuall weight of a vr4 which is around 3,800 lbs

  • @nihiliz If they were running a quarter mile would they get to start from a 60 mph roll? I think not lol, The person with the vr4 is just smarter than the person with the supra because he was smart enough to get a car with awd.

  • @nihiliz Wow so why don't you try racing a car with no wheel drive, that would be a real challenge!

  • @TpMaster23, ummmm okay?.

  • @AxeofDeath666 last i checked the supra is one heavy ass mofo aswell.

    A car is a car, everything is fair.

  • @Deph11s yep and in this case the 3000gt vr4 is just more powerful

  • @AxeofDeath666 Yep. If no weight reduction has been done, i'd say the car alone is ~400-500lbs heavier than the Supra (stock for stock).

  • @AxeofDeath666 yeah dude my 91 weighed in at 4k+

  • @AxeofDeath666 umm no... huge difference between 700 hp to 1000. and chanses are that gt was four wheel drive so thats the ultimate rocket

  • @AxeofDeath666 yeh... if you put 215's on the 3kgt, and 315 slicks on the supra (referring to tire width)

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  • with that much hp the awd can still burn out like crazy. suspension and tires are huge here tho. and dont forget the gt still has more horse power than all ur cars over the supra :)

  • @ jared an trev.... hahaaaha you all are hillarious!

  • get new cam

  • @TheScoobyRS

    whats your point? it will still lose, drag tyres or not

  • so true.. on a supra at that...

  • yeah im thinking if we had another view at the other end the supra would ahve won anyways jsut cause the other car has more power the supra has 700 hp thats enough to smoke a bike

  • the only thing i dont like about the 1g VR4 is that the output shaft is weak on the 5speeds'..the styling is better after 94 IMO..

    stock 9b turbos for sale...

  • @Miggyt18 more potential my ass, no such thing..its what you put into an engine and how you out it,

  • i wish they could post another race at the other end.. they we moving..

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  • Stock shortblock record for a 3/S car is 9.7 seconds @ 151mph. street tires, not drag radials.

  • Comment removed

  • That is not a 2G Supra that is a 4th GEN...Dumbass.

    And the same german company builds a getrag 6 speed for the 3000gt.

  • all a 2wd needs is slicks or drag radials to cancel out the awd advantage.and most modern sports cars have traction control.

  • Wow! Insane Cars... I have owned both gen.s of the 3000gt. I had a 92 and then a 95 VR4 TT. The 3000gt is bulky and heavy but wow what a good looking car. But all of these comments don't add up to nothing, it is true... 3000gt are like boats, labor and money labor and money labor and money. You need lots of time and lots of money... (neither of which I have)

    I will say though that the 3000gt VR4 is a head turner a beautiful car and a very nice cruising car.... All the ladies are looking.

  • damn?! looks like the supra just leaves tire tracks the whole race. both lovely cars.

  • no stability control or abs brakes

  • dont get me wrong i got a 91 VR4 but if i had the chance i would get a Supra the first damn chance i get. they are better lookin cars and the internals can hold up to 1000hp stock. where as the 3000 has to be upgraded at around 600. see the difference?

  • Not talking trash, but supra internals do NOT hold 1000hp stock. 600ish reliably with a clutch upgrade.

    Source: SC300 2jzGTE swapped and GS300 1UZFE-TT swapped owner.

  • ok i did the research to so and yes i was wrong. thanks fa bein respectful dats rare on youtube. but the 2JZ engines is just a monster powerhouse compared to the 6G72.

  • No problem man, that is what the net is for, learning and enjoying.. not keyboard warrior-ing! I love 3000GT, but they cost a ridiculous amount of money to get much from.. he which also applies to the 2JZGTE.. long live the 1UZ! Check out the vids of 1UZ TT cars on here.. it will make you reconsider

  • man dat 1UZ is sick i didnt know people put the lexus sc400 engines into supras. lol im still a fan of the 2jz its a fuckin power house pluse less weight. deffinatly something to keep in mind for the future tho.

  • 3000 GT has always been a nice car to me, but i always named it 3000 problems because of the people complaining. lol

    BUT the Supra is always a lover :D

  • I own a 3000GT and the best thing that car knows how to do is break down on you. I HATE IT! I HATE THAT DAMN THING! I WISH I NEVER BOUGHT IT!!! I get a new engine for it and not the damn transmission gets stuck in first gear. I never had a chance to race it. It's a piece of shit. All it does is sit around now. It never moves. Already took enough money from me.

  • I don't know what the hell's wrong with yours, but my '93 3000GT is running strong and brilliant. The only thing replaced have been fluids and filters. Still has it's stock plug wires.

    I still smoke the hell out of most cars on the road, and any other cars (such as the viper I raced) I can easily out maneuver. The AWD is a lifesaver, such a pain in the ass to try to slide with it.

  • Dude my buddy ethan bought one and he has the same problem. he spent 8Gs on his 1999 3000gt and has put at least 3gs into fixing problems. its ridicules

  • That's because him, or the previous owner, didn't take care of it.

    If you aren't modding it, and are taking care of it, then it doesn't need fixing up.

    Then again, he should have known going into an import sports car that he would be paying a shit ton.

  • i feel your pain bro...it took me two of them cars to realize they suck

  • uummm yes they can, its not unheard of for supra's to pass 1000hp on stock internals... dont know about the 3000gt...

  • my Supra is will not burnout, because my cars like a lighting

  • Not gonna lie, my 3000gt base 94 weighs almost 4000 lbs. that is obese. but, still that v-6 throws me back. i can't really rank on these two cars though because i love the supra and own a 3000gt

  • if you compare weights the supra only weighs 200lbs less then the vr-4. Still both are super cars!!!!!

  • It is time to make this guys from MITSUBISHI and TOYOTA make new cars of those. 3000 GT VR-4 AND SUPRA. NISSAN GT-R appear first then this year is the CHEVY CAMARO. Why they don't think in fanatic people of this cars and make those machines to come back.I can wait for the next summer to buy a new one let us now.I don't care about the price to have one of these cars make's a man feel proud of himself it is like a legacy. They are great machines!.Some people like evo's and celica's but is diferent

  • at least mazda has kept cool car this whole time :P i have a RX-7 the first year they were sold in the US ! and the new RX-8 isnt much different ! and they have had plenty of bad ass sport compacts , the mazda 3 series since the late 80's , the 323 gtx was awesome and so is the new mazda speed3 , the eclipse has change alot , they killed the 3000gt,. toyota ruined the celica . and killed the supra. nissan has kept around the Z car at least. non turbo though :(