People are Idiots and do not think, you cannot blame the companies for taking advantage of the weaknesses of people. There is a simple solution to this problem and that is called "thinking" but evidently that hurts too much so people do not do it.
@fcloaked Later on in the film she actually discusses the sexualization of men in advertisments and how that is, although less common, but quite discriminating and harmful to mindsets as well. but yes. Literally, more bang for their buck.
@RealmEternal nobody thinks that you're funny. do you have a girlfriend? probably not. i bet you're going to try and tell me that you do. nobody will respect you. i bet girls laugh at you. fucking jerk.
You are obviously brainwashed if you believe that 'liberal' and 'conservative' titles actually mean anything. They are both Madison Avenue creations designed to cater to multinational corporations and banks by dividing and conquering America with political puppets on each side.
This is not liberal propaganda. Women are advertised as sexual cattle. If you don't get that, you are certifiably retarded. To believe a real conservative, listen to Ron Paul and keep your mouth shut for a year.
You're a fuckin retard. And of course you have sheeple in your name. I think you are the one who's brainwashed. Also Ron Paul? Why would I listen to a racist creationist? Go get fucked.
Just remember, the ad agencies since the days of Edward Bernays have at least acted psychopathic (check "freedom from conscience" video). Their job is to make money and if they have to tweak at one's inner insecurities they will do so and not feel at all guilty.
hmmm in this video she attempts to correlate images of sexualized teens with higher rates of teen pregnancy in the U.S. and the implication is that the media is the cause of higher teen pregnancy rates, but actually, the cause of higher pregnancy rates may be the fact that in North America we actually eat more than most of the entire world, and when children are well nourished they tend to go through puberty sooner, hence more teen pregnancies.
@galaxypirate ehm, the majority of people in europe is well nourished as well, puberty starts earlier as well than 30 years ago in europe, yet the US have highest teen pregnancy rate of all developed countries.
@galaxypirate I'm honestly of the opinion that the sexualization of teen girls is a conspiracy to produce more consumers in a neoliberal economy.i'm also of the opinion that the onslaught on women's reproductive rights by Congress over the past year or so is directly related to this.There is a long standing relationship between protestantism and capitalism.there's a reason books and movies like Twilight get made and sell so well.Its to tell girls they're worthless unless they reproduce.
@galaxypirate also, tell older women they're worthless if they don't look like a 14 year old girl and you automatically open up new markets within the neoliberal economy (i.e. the beauty industry).
It made me feel really awkward and self-conscious when they were talking about the messages that women should be thin. It's something that I've always struggled with and I have an eating disorder but I've always vehemently denied that it was connected to the media. Now I can see that some of my ideas that my ED is centered on really do come from the media. It was very helpful and moving for me to watch this. I really recommend it.
@NakMusic92 It's too bad that, in an ironic way, Kilborne makes the claim that women don't know what they want. Despite that they created and fueled the industry which caters to them in this way, they're gerenally too stupid to have elected Jean Kilborne to have made their decisions for them.
I completely disagree with this video. The psychology here is simply unsound. People are not blank slates which unconsciously absorb ideas and beliefs; We have a choice to evaluate ideas for ourselves. If anything is to be blamed here, it is the shoddy religious parents out there who are fucking up. I am a feminist, but this video makes assumptions about humans that are flawed and not thought out.
@darrbare Here, here. A feminist who agrees with me. Like the church, I would argue that Kilborne is preaching shame of sexual desire and that such a 'wicked act' is inherently degrading. In an age of enlightment people should not be so prudish and contemptful of freedom of choice.
this is true, many girls my age think advertising isn't affecting them, but they still say 'ohh i need to go on a diet, look at the cellulite on my legs/my boobs aren't big enough/my skin is so fuckin pasty' when they are at a very healthy weight and beautiful, and 14 years old. its sad...
society sends out many mixed messages, it makes us young ones confused and overwhelmed...makes me wonder what my children will go through (in 15-20 years time)
The thing that is the hardest concept for me to grasp is the threshold between desiring someone else for reasons that are entirely cultural and desiring someone for reasons that are completely natural: at what point do I sexually like a girl and/or her body for reasons that are totally natural or for reasons that are a result of our culture and negative messages it promotes?
@TaurusType I think it's much more natural than you realize. Natural selection is innate and your desires for perky breasts and a firm asses are completely warranted, and don't let any religious organization or feminist tell you're helpless and living in the sin of a corrupt culture. Your body reacts this way out of evolutionary need of passing on healthy human genes and it is actually more important than your own life to pass on a more robust and healthy generation,dont trade that for anything.
Yep. Women are idealized... but so is everything else in this world. We all have an ideal or standard we'd like to be. I feel like people have recently been gearing towards making what you have work for you rather than the obtaining something you don't have to make it work for you. I'm one of those skinny, white chicks she speaks of, but no one is rushing up to my doorstep to obtain me. I think people are more about their preferences these days rather than the idealized world... imo
She should show more examples of advertising with photographs of men. Feminist=reverse gender biased. If they focused on ideas that benefit everyone like a second bill of rights or something they'd be more successful.
@kpilax22 What do you mean "sex sells"? What definition of "sex" are you referring to? Im a heterosexual woman and my definition of "sex" definitely doesn't include women's t*ts and *ass. When you say "sex sells" you need to qualify what you're saying. Ie. "the heterosexual male ideal of sex sells". if it were MY ideal of "sex" selling it would be an extremely hot MALE half naked. Just remember that when you use the age-old "sex" sells cliche.
@kpilax22 That's because there's something WRONG with our society. They don't need to do that, we will always buy things. They could try to sell their product another way. You're sick to respond like that to this. THIS is why so many girls suffer self-esteem problems so terribly. It is ABSOLUTELY "killing us softly" and it's heartbreaking. I'm genuinely sad for you that you can respect human beings or see how bad this truly is.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
FUCK ALL YOU BITCH ASS FEMANISTS! i dont understand why you dont want to cook for us men its not that hard latina girls are better than you cunts. also why cant we post naked women on billboard sighns? i mean c'mon as soon as im a studio owner im gonna advertize playboy and have sexy lesbiens on my channel for young boys as old as 14. fuck ameriskanks.
be seen as well. Mostly though I don't care about the way a woman looks I care about her personality. Two qualities are essential for me to approach a girl romantically and that's that she needs to be nice and she needs to be single. Probably the biggest turnoff is when a girl flirts with me and then I figure out she's got a boyfriend. Not only is that disgusting behavior but it also shows that she would leave me under the right circumstances. By nice I mean genuinely nice. Not fake nice.
You know there are reasons to care about a woman's looks. If they look good to you and you look good to them that probably means that you are biologically compatible. I also think that a girl's personality is written in her face and whether or not their overall personality is attractive to you may indicate whether or not her personality is. Whether or not they are in shape shows whether or not they are willing to work for something they want and if they work too often to visit the gym that can..
advertisements sell preference, not products, any industry remains unchanged with ads, its just that you buy the brand thats bying advertised rather than the unknown brands.
And beauty is socially inparted, before being fat was attractive because it showed you had money and being pale skinned meant you didnt have to work hard...back when people where either very poor or very rich... now, being fit shows that you can pay for a gym membership and actually have time and devotion to attend while being tan shows that you arent stuck at an office all day... ads do emphazise this, but they arent the problem
advertisements sell preference, not products, any industry remains unchanged with ads, its just that you buy the brand thats bying advertised rather than the unknown brands.
@professorfoxtrot I'm sorry, your logic is skewed and if you were yourself a woman you wouldn't be saying this. Women who are in need of a father figure or a guide to make them grow indeed fall into your description. But mature women who have figured a little more about their own lives, search a partner not to ensure their future but to enhance their own lives and share a common goal.
Survival isn't acting like a man. It's knowing what's best for you and it's not the same for every woman.
@alrune8 Thank you for such a logical and objective comment. I would like to ad, that too many people believe the steriotipcal image that men have everything under control and that women are vournrable. The media often portrays such images and therefore influences sociaty to think that way. Don't base your values on these created images, think and look objectivly and read ethical books and articls, it will make sense to all of you who belive that men thrive for power and women for beauty.
@Fruitjoke Thank you for the praise. Well these stereotypes serve the ones who created them. If men only focus on their ambition and women on their vanity, you can do whatever you want, they won't notice. This is how all these people are manipulated.
@alrune8 What is this babble? Quite an admission to say that mature women know what's best for themselves when Kilborne endorses censorship, the notion that women are incapable of thinking for themselves and need to be protected from advertisers like sacred cows. Feminist hypocrisy is not to be believed by any rational or free-thinking person. The 27 people who support your response are not independent which is why they require the comfort of approval of others.
@professorfoxtrot2 Oh it's you again. Hi! Just back from Dick Masterson's website so you can counter me with some fresh Troll-arguments?
No darling. People simply agree that women don't need to act like men's parasites to survive and that being a self-reliant adult is NOT acting like a man.
About censorship, I see your point. I don't completely agree with Kilborne on that one. But teenagers still remain very sensitive to what the media convey and I think this is where we need to be careful.
@alrune8 But given the context in which your claim is made, the people who support this claim are also the same ones who support this video.They claim to be independent yet they seek protection from having their feelings hurt like children under Kilborne and her media censorship crusade when she calls for "control of media" Restrictions on any form of freedom of expression should be absolute and non-negotiable. Even "ChallengingMedia" negates independence by blocking comments from this forum.
@professorfoxtrot2 If some women just pretend to be independent but secretly wish to be coddled like babies, that's a fact.
But protecting our daughters from the media's detrimental messages such as "your natural beauty isn't enough, you must get cosmetic surgery" "femininity equals being a whore" "your wishes and dreams don't matter if they don't include serving men" or "you must be weak and ineffectual,else you're not a woman" is needed yes. And I believe this is what Killborne means.
@alrune8 But Kilborne is not asking people to make their own discretion to make their own choices. That should go without saying. Kilborne's posits that we are not to rely on our rational faculties when she calls for the deliberate censorship of the media in accordance to her own values. I have never heard any of these slogans you mention in a commercial before which is because you've fabricated them no doubt to demonize advertisers as boogeymen.
It's attitudes like Kilborne's that result in association of shame with sex thus perpetuates more humiliation among young girls who want to have sex or enhance their bodies. To Kilborne these girls are subservient slaves to the media who need to be disenfranchised from their own decision-making processes. The implication that these women are automatically subservient to men or that their decisions to buy beauty products makes them whores is a disgrace and Kilborne should show some shame.
@professorfoxtrot2 If "enhancing" one's body means to have prosthetic breasts or getting liposuction, I believe we have a completely different idea of what "enhancing" means. This is not enhancing, it's altering. Honestly, contending that all women can look the same from the neck down if they just try to, no matter their bone structure, is just plain lying. Why do I say that? Because there's only ONE acceptable body type for women in the media, and it needs cosmetic surgery to exist.
@alrune8 I guess we do have different opinions on enhancement. Lipstick enhances the lips, eye liner accentuates the eyes, breast implants accentuate the breasts. Unless your idea of enhancement is shoving your face full of m&m's and ben and jerry's. Also, you completely ignored the claim on censorship with and replaced it with more babble about acceptable body types. Wanna know what's unacceptable? Subversion of free speech in a democratic society where people are offended.
@professorfoxtrot2 My "babble" is verifiable just by comparing ads, not my fault. I understand your bit about censorship and I agree but the simple fact that you believe adverts set a rightful standard for women (and maybe men) simply proves that you blindly believe all what mainstream media convey. So you have no point. And about freedom of speech, I don't see how I "subvert" this just by expressing my views. We just happen to disagree on many things, there's nothing subversive in that.
@alrune8 How does it set a verifiable standard? Is it enforced by censorship? Does it propose that we have to buy these products again our will? The answer is No. Kilborne on the otherhand has an agenda of sexual repression and shame and claims that it should be backed by the control of the media. Whether you even agree with the message of commericials is unimportant. The people have spoken and agree that women's asses and tits are sexy and that fat women are not.
@professorfoxtrot2 I love how angry suburban White boys believe they are the voice of the people around the world... OF COURSE, women's tits and asses are sexy, they are meant to be! Just like a man's ripped torso is meant to be sexy. But I'm sorry, thinness is NOT a universal rule of sexy, just Hollywood's. It's a known fact that African men, Arab men and Southern American men prefer women with wide hips and rotund curves. Just like Asian women in Asia are attracted to overweight men.
@alrune8 As I was reading this paragraph at I almost spit the water out of my mouth at how funny it was. First your claim that I believe I'm the voice of the world followed by your second claim of speaking on behalf of the world and claiming what other cultures like. Particularly your claim that " Asian women in Asia are attracted to overweight men." I can't express how untrue this is when you claim to speak on behalf of Asian women.
I'll let Asian women speak for themselves but first you should understand that I'm currently living in Taiwan and I have been to every Asian country except for the more remote ones like Brunei or East Timor and have several female friends in all those countries. Not one has said she prefers fat men. Not a single one. They prefer tall, handsome thin guys which happens to work nicely in my favor. Likewise, Asian men typically want nothing to do with fatter western girls because of their girth.
@professorfoxtrot2 Oh really? Rich white boy has a thing for poor, submissive Asian girls? Why am I not surprised? Whichever, what my own girlfriends in Asia told me was that they liked solid men better than lanky men.But I guess none of us can speak for them, so let's admit this is a draw. Still, you say "the people have spoken", so you pose yourself as the voice of the people. Which is ridiculous because your own surroundings are one thing, it's not everybody else's.
@alrune8 Poor submissive asian girls? You continue to reveal that you are fantastically uncultured, stupendiously uneducated and apparently quite proud of these things. My girlfriend has a masters degree and works for Sega, how poor she must be. And no, I wouldn't consider this a draw given that your claim was that Asian women go for fat guys. This is based on your shallow world view and you should admit it.
I've been in many circles of Asia, among the poor, among the wealthy and I have friends from all walks of life here and they have amply spoken for themselves. I've never forced them to change their minds. And that's a pretty damn good sample given that I've been researching cultures and art extensively here. What have you got? One friend you know living abroad (and who doesn't even claim to like fat guys) and a mind full of prejudice. 你是賤人.
When feminists cry about stereotypes, they need to look no further than Alrune8, nay, themselves. Feminism is of itself a stereotype based on a stream of shallow individuals who cry prejudice and discrimination almost as quickly as they dole it out and you've proven my point here. This is why you'll never hear Kilborne or her ilk talk about Sharia law in Tehran or acid burnings in Karachi. They are chiefly illiterate on these issues and are preoccupied with trivial bs such as you see here.
@professorfoxtrot2 Somebody who has been constantly insulting me ever since we started talking and who doesn't even REMEMBER that, on another thread, among the very first exchanges of this interesting "conversation", I DID mention the women who suffer TRUE sexual discrimination in non-Western countries, is in NO position to judge me. Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me stupid, just like your visiting of Dick Masterson's website and rehashing of his "clues" don't make you right.
@professorfoxtrot2 You obviously believe I see no world beyond feminism, which is really sad because it shows off indeed how prejudiced YOU are. Just because I'm a feminist doesn't mean I don't see what feminism actually is. And about Asian people, I just happen to be half-Asian dumbass! So don't worry I KNOW pretty much as many Asians as you do. And just because you write in Japanese kanjis don't legitimate your contended experience.
@professorfoxtrot2 A girlfriend with a masters degree that works for Sega? Oh no, darling you are just dreaming here. Any self-respecting woman wouldn't date some self-serving man who believes that women are essentially parasitic whores that should stay at home, AS YOU SAID YOURSELF on another thread. Changed your mind? Then I was correct 10 months ago when I said you needed a girlfriend. Check the history, I did.
@alrune8 Again, no evidence to suggest that Asian women like fat men. Also ethnic decendancy has nothing to do with being emersed in another culture, unless you're going to sit here and tell me that you, a half-asian woman have a genetic proclivity that makes you wet for fat guys. I have to admit that not all women are parasitic whores but I'd say about 90% of western girls are and you know this to be true subciounsciously
@professorfoxtrot2 particularly when you make comments like "Rich white boy has a thing for poor, submissive Asian girls" What you're essentially saying is that you believe that Asian women are whores too and are simply doing it for the money as per your typical western girl. Otherwise they should have no interest in the affection they get, nor the loving care of a paternal guardian. Well weep those sleepy eyes. She also does my laundry and cleans my apartment just to make me happy. :)
I disagree that you know more asian people than be but that's not the point. Growing up in Asia and growing up in the United States are two entirely different experiences. World's apart actually. I have many asian friends back home who are entirely different from their relatives of the Orient. In lieu of this sexual appeal for thin girls with big tits is still pretty much unanimiously agreed upon. Ergo our primitive impulse for selective breeding transcends culture and offends feminists.
@professorfoxtrot2 Thin girls with big tits are a nonsense. A woman's breasts are in accordance to her body, meaning thin girls have small breasts, medium ones at best. Very big tits go with girls who have deep ribcages, square shoulders and an all along stronger upper body to support their breasts' weight. Women who have a thin frame and naturally huge breasts often get breast reduction if they can afford it since the breasts' weight causes back and neck pain as well as breastfeeding problems.
@professorfoxtrot2 Again, you're putting words in my mouth for your own convenience. I don't blame your girl for anything, if what you give her is what she's looking for, good for her. I'm rather blaming rich white boys who take advantage of foreign girls' misery to have their way with them, and maybe that's what you did. And what should I weep for exactly? That she does your laundry? Is it something I should actually care about?
@professorfoxtrot2 Oh, look who finally found love! By Western girls, I guess you mean North American girls because many men agree that European women are very much NOT like that. And no I don't need a "subconscious" knowledge to recognize this. I know that some women are indeed golddiggers. But generally, you get the woman you deserve, that's how it is. If you believe all women are whores, you will get whores. But deep down you didn't want a whore, so you got a self-reliant woman. QED.
@professorfoxtrot2 Keeping one's dignity as a woman doesn't include reconstructing your body in order to fit to what the media command you to be by presenting unnatural bodies as the norm. Plus, don't be hypocritical. You consider all of us women whores by nature so stop pretending that buying beauty products doesn't make us whores. And, really, what do you know about adverts? Don't you know that a slogan is only 1/4 of an advert's message? There are always insidious implications in an advert.
@alrune8 You're missing my point by a long shot. Men do not asked to be worshipped, they perform out of the basic instinct to survive. That is to use theiir man senses and their impassioned logic when called upon. Women do not understand this or what it means to act with impugnity. A woman with a gun will do anything for petty revenge and that means costing her children's lives.
@professorfoxtrot Survival instincts are universal. Females of ANY species have it just as much as males. It's not a gender-based thing.
I can't speak for other women, but I personally don't do the "petty revenge" thingt nor do I thrive on my emotions. It's something I've learned to tame and use at my advantage, such as reading people's feeling better.
About violence, women have this inside of them but they generally don't derive as much pleasure from it than men, it's true.
@professorfoxtrot "A woman with a gun will do anything for petty revenge and that means costing her children's lives." You obviously haven't been loved by your mother. I don't think you realize how much that doesn't make sense. You're making a point that men have the basic instinct to survive (its genetically in them, yes, throughout years men has evolved but this is still within them), but you forgot that women have the instinct to be good mothers. It's in us.
professorfoxtrot @alrune8 In wartime, if women were actually concerned about the war effort they would shut up and help create munitions and uniforms for soldiers on the homefront so that they would increase their chances of survival which is what they did during WWI and II. Going out and carrying a gun and wondering out aimlessly isn't going to accomplish anything except leaking out sensitive military information resulting in more deaths.
@professorfoxtrot 3. You do understand that WWIII will be nothing like WWi and WWII don't you? According to many sociologists and economists, half of the planet's population is to die. Which means, there is a high risk for women and children to be targeted just as men will be. If women can't defend themselves in the absence of men, then they might as well never have a child under their responsibility.
@alrune8 2. Who said women are sex toys? Though all women are whores that sounds like objectification straight from the horse's mouth! A major difference between men and women is that men do not sell their sex, we give it away for free! All women sell their sex and every woman sets her own price, usually far overpriced market value. Exchanges are made through marriage or prostitution. Feminists hate this because they are unkempt competitors and of course, it's all men's fault!
@professorfoxtrot Look if you believe women are either sluts or prostitutes, then case in point, you're a misogynist. You can't command respect from somebody you don't even respect yourself. If you don't even look at us as equals in terms of dignity and humanity, as I already said, don't expect to be thanked. As long as women will submit to these ridiculous trends instead of worrying and studying more serious subjects that actually matter in society, they won't be taken seriously.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
@alrune8 Your logic seems to be escaping you. If I believe women sell their sex, at what point can you claim that I am a misogynist. iI don't hate women. Men and women are not equals since men are better in every aspect including logic! I am not expecting to be thanked, but those who speak the truth seldomly are!
@professorfoxtrot I think you're not being serious. We have talked before and you indeed showed that you had more to you than being sexist. I never said women should replace men, I never said we should despise or resent men. I just said we have the right to want something better than being just an accessory to amn's life, even more so when our good will is never repaid.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
@alrune8 No one should ever go around looking for cheques for goodwill! That's why it's called goodwill! I am sexist because I realize that men are better at practically everything, that means war as well. Feminists cannot wrap this belief around their heads with the fact that I don't hate women. Is imply recogonize the truth for what it is without believing the catchphrases of feministm that women are equally as capable as men without any proof. Women play the victim card!
@professorfoxtrot I admire that you at last recognized your misgyny. Took you long enough. But you do understand the belittlement of women is actually what created Feminism, right?
I, and the women I associate with, don't use the "helpless victim" card. Because it leads to reasonings such as yours. If we're givent rights in a nation, it's our duty to own up to the responsibilities that come with them. And that may include defending the country with our lives if need be.
By your logic, black people [during the civil rights era and even today] shouldn't have anything to complain about, as there obviously wasn't any proof that they were equal to white people. They played the racism card and everything though.
I've seen the full version of this film. I like it when she goes into sexual orientation. It's so true when she says how heterosexual bias these ads can be. As if heterosexual is the only way. It would be nice to see women with women and not just women with each other with some ugly guy between them. It would definitely be win to see two guys and one woman or two guys on their own. This will be revolutionary indeed and any company doing ads like that will certainly get recognition and respect.
A hetereosexual bias? hahaha Might it have anything to do with the fact that vast majority of people are hetereosexual? It's the same reason why you don't see mass-marketing campaigns for midgets.
@shoujokakumei39 You seem to be crossing a threshold where you're too timid to call a spade a spade in a mind so open (and empty) as yours, and henceforth you ampty illustrate that you don't know what you're talking about. There is nothing that you can say that will deny the hard-wired drive of a man to find a sexy firm-bodied chick. The only thing that is changed is women are becoming fatter to the extent that the average american girl is a whopping 165lb!
... It's a fallacy to presume that just because women are changing, tastes are. It just mean the pool for choice is slimmer, like being lost in a forest and finding a rock full of moss. Not a tasteful cuisine but it'll have to do.
Comparing humans to food is disgusting. I don't compare my man, by society standards isn't perfect, to a hotdog nor do I view him as a walking wallet as most men view themselves these days. As if cash is the only thing that is worth in a man, that's disgusting too.
Also taste has changed, look into history. All of the great master artists painted full figured women not stick figured models so fat was neat back then. Of course back then men made love with their hands/bodies and not their eyes.
@LadyBludeon Except the part where I didn't compare humans to food at all and compared desperation of choice and lack thereof. It applies every necessity in life whether it be sex, food or shelter, people will make do if given the scarcest options. This is a point I was making (before you tried to derail my comment in into an irrelevancy) to debunk the claim that men suddenly find fat women attractive just because they're increasing in number! It's simple logic ladies.
@Renabulous Brilliant? This would be passable for a high school social studies class. Does anyone find it ironic that Kilborne's speech is based on dehumanizing while she claims to speak on behalf of all the women that were in the advertisements. Who's exercising their freedom of choice here, the willing consenting women to participate in these commercials or the contemptible shrew who infers that the sexuality of these women is degrading?
@professorfoxtrot2 Contemptible shrew? Because the "shrew" doesnt agree with the media's IMAGE of sexuality? I believe in a woman's choice, just not ignoring the woman, I believe in all sorts of things which some would say oh that's hypocritical, call yourself a feminist? Like I say it's about a woman's right to choose and freedom of speech..its when people make assumptions about a woman who is choosing to speak out that she finds certain images degrading, that shows true repression.
@Renabulous No because this shrew doesn't believe in freedom of choice. The media isn't a single entity. It's consisted of people and these people have chosen their own freewill. By saying that these images are degrading, Kilborne is underminding the women who choose to be in them. She is imposing guilt and shame by suggesting that these women are weak and submissive and need to be helped by her agenda. The overall message is highly condescending and it is motivated by jealousy and contempt.
@professorfoxtrot2 its true that some women have a problem with others for the reasons you say but the woman in this video above is really putting her point across. You can have opinions, doesn't make you a shrew. Not all women are jealous, whether you believe or not, doesn't concern me. Everyone has their issues. I think Jean the lady in the video is an intelligent and broadminded woman. But if you've already made up your mind about her then you can't see it.
@Renabulous Having an opinion doesn't make you a shrew, having shrewish opinions does. Jean has nothing interesting to offer that's new or pressing. It really is a classic case of a Marxist notion that appeals to the have nots and spits all the blame and contempt on the haves. Above all, it's embarrassing to presume that Kilborne's thoughts are broadminded and that any who disagrees is missing the greater profound message. Now we're just being obnoxious.
@professorfoxtrot2 This will go back and forth. You've already made up your mind about her and have very strong notions and ideas, I disagree with your post and I disagree with your ideas. I've found one can't argue by that I mean debate with someone who's on a completely different side to you. It then just turns into name calling and I'll have no part in that thank you.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
As Aristotle posited, the "worst state of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal" Those who work hard on their bodies and model by their own freedom of choice will be paraded and disgraced by Jean Kilborne and her ilk. Those who do no remove themselves from the couch will be showered will Kilborne's glory. Those who challenge this notion with conviction will be scorned by feminists, those who spout falsehoods such as "fat women are sexy" will recieve applause.
I like how the media says that flawlessness in a woman is what makes her look pretty. To me, it's completely the opisite. Flawlessness makes them seem alien, unreal, and inhuman. I think a girl with freckles, a little more meat on her bones, and flaws here and there make her look much prettier.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
@SpiffyBacon Completely the opposite? If you had the choice to date Angelina Jolie or Rosie O'Donnel you know damn well you'd choose the former. Feminism is the art of elevating losers to a state of equality and it lends us a host of false beliefs such as the idea that fat women are innately beautiful. However, beauty is a relative term, so if every woman is "beautiful" there is no such thing as beauty.
Come back crying? Look, if you like women that much, why do you assume we will fail if we take action? You do know that men are not always around to protect us, don't you? Hence we must learn how to defend ourselves unaided when it's needed.
If we can't even protect ourselves, we can't protect our children, we'd be just here like a security blanket, in other words completely useless. What's the use of staying around children if we can't even protect them?
Actually the proper term is "come back swinging" so grab a pen and start taking notes. Women are terrible at fighting so why try and be a hero by putting yourself and your children at risk. There are many cases where have gotten their families killed because they decided to be a hero. But unless you're not from a first world country, you're not going to be invaded anyway so why piss and moan about it?
@alrune8 They're terrible at fighting if they're not being taught how to fight in the first place! Women who have taken self-defense or martial art classes are better fighters than women who never trained their bodies, of course!
And to answer your question: do you think it's legally and morally acceptable for half of your country's citizens to have more responsibilities towards the state than the other half?
@alrune8 Same case can be made for 5 year old boys. Fiver year old boys are better at fighting if properly trained, doesn't mean they're not going to get their asses kicked to the moon if you put them in a fight. The solution, don't put them in the fight!!
You shouldn't be here in the first place, mister. Misogynists are no better than Misandrists and shouldn't speak against Feminism. It's just plain hypocritical to say it's wrong to resent men if you contempt women yourself.
If you deem us of lesser worth and dignity than men, don't expect us to thank you.
@alrune8 lol I don't hate women, but I'm not going to see that men are equal to women because it isn't true. I think they should have equality under the law, but I don't think they should be treated as equals because they're not and anyone who pretends they are is a fool. Some people, especially feminists, actually delude themselves into believing that the WNBA is just as good as the NBA.
@professorfoxtrot Stop trying to twist my words for your convenience, will you?
I am not talking about equality in physical strength. My whole point was being given equality in front of the law and in terms of dignity as a human being. If you don't believe in this, feel free to, not my problem.
But in light of this, it's no surprise you advocate the coercion of women through media pressure. Just like men are coerced BTW but honestly, men are behind most media nowadays so...
@alrune8 lol "coercion of women through media pressure." SIsta please, if that's coercive then you might as well just come out and say that women are completely powerless to make their own decisions and that any mere suggestion equates to coercion.
Look, White actresses and supermodels (because Blacks and Asians have a different pattern of beauty) are chosen according to 2 things: narrow shoulders and shallow ribcage, 2 parts of the skeleton that are heredity-determined, that NO ONE has power over and with which bodyfat has nothing to do.
Do you get it? Very few women in real life have this bone structure. No matter how much weight you loose, your skeleton shape will remain the same. It's unrealistic.
@alrune8 Very few people are millionaires, but it's still portrayed as desirable, and hey who wouldn't want a million dollars? I think most people would just as most people want sexy firm abs. But Jean Kilborne and her followers are such haters! They seem to be writing in contempt and bitterness of those who have more, or people who potray those as having more. Kilborne is exploiting people's envies and portraying them as jelousies.
Basically what I'm saying is Jean Kilborne's attitude sucks! She tells people they don't need to work on their weaknesses and that the rest of the world is at fault for your lack of ambition. This is the recipe for creating a loser. Someone who tries to put down every quality of peopl that's better or more desirable then themselves.
@professorfoxtrot Having large shoulders, deep ribcage and wide hips is not a weakness, it's an unchangeable pattern of your body. Something you have to live with. And you're not of lesser worth or ugly because you have those. All she says is that healthy, not overweight women with such bone patterns shouldn't feel ashamed of it and not to believe a standard that only few women can live up to. It's not the sole criteria of achievement.
Really, it's like being Black and being asked to be White.
@professorfoxtrot You compare business achievements with the human skeleton... Your logic is skewed, really! One's body shape remains what it is no matter what.
Take Kelly Osbourne for instance, she has lost an unholy amount of weight yet she is still called "fat" when she's actually as slim and healthy as she can get. She just has large shoulders and wide hips and this is not something she can change, just like her square jaw. She will never be a Kate Moss, her bone structure doesn't allow it.
If you deny us being treated equal in front of the law and being seen as responsible adults, then there is no penis envy, it's just a fight for equal dignity, the rest is irrelevant.
It's not acceptable for one half of the population to have more responsibility to the State than the other half. Period.
@alrune8 The fallacy you believe is that I hate women which I think is silly, in fact, I'd pretty much have to be gay to practise a full-out hatred of women. As for contempt, I reserve my contempt to those who deserve it. Feminists are a great candidate for contempt because they're an interest group who wants something for nothing. They contribute nothing to society, but they want more pay for women, and more aptly, themselves.
@professorfoxtrot Well, that's pretty much why most misogynists who are not gay hate us. You can't stand us but you need us to satisfy your sexual urges so you hate us even more.
You can contempt me for all I care, I'm no US feminist so I don't wish for female domination. My only TRUE wish for women is for them to actually break their own boundaries and incarnate Womanhood in the most noble way. Not by emulating men in their most contemptible traits or conforming to men's idea of femininity.
@alrune8 Women need us to fill our sexual urges, it's how we survive as a species. If you look at the scientific scheme of things feminism is actually highly regressive movement because it teaches women that they are victims, internalizes that they are helpless and espouses a hatred of those who provide for them as "oppresors." Such a belief system is destined to make women isolated from men and alone with no provider.
@professorfoxtrot I agree with that. I know that this side of Feminism is actually even more hurtful to women than plain misogyny. And I don't associate myself with such beliefs.
Men and Women are interdependent and complementary and are to live together so it's stupid to try and turn them against one another. It makes no one happy. Just as it is stupid for one of them to abuse or belittle the other since it just creates resentment.
I agree with your points and I am glad that you are responding to the ignorant comments for this foxtrot. Except, I wonder what you mean by "womanhood". What is womanhood? What is femininity These are simply constructs and categories that seek to further control and enforce harmful binaries. Also they assume a universal kind of woman. Look forward to your reply
@shoujokakumei39 There exists archetypes for manhood and womanhood, based on our physiological constructs.
Let's say you have black on one side and white on the other side. And between them, there is an infinity of shades of grey that connects the two. No one is actually "all black" or "all white". It doesn't exist. Still these archetypes remain in all cultures and societies and everyone evolves from them and become a mix of the two.
More families are killed because of male dominance and aggression. >_>
Also to quote Joan Baez "If it's natural to kill, why do men have to go into training to learn to do it?" Men aren't born to kill either. It's a an act that is past on from parent to child depending on the principles of a society. Go back and take notes in an actual anthropology course and stop acting like you know true human nature. Also watch "The Middle Sex". Gender is bs fed to us by the those who rule the laws. Peace.
A terrible argument on the subject of condemning male dominance because without male providers millions of families would die of famine and incompetence. This is how feminists argue, they try and find an extreme outlier of a dominant male who kills his family then sepciously try to conclude that males murdering their families is the norm in addition to being caused by male dominance!
1. Do you think it's legally and morally justifiable for half of your country's citizens to have more responsibilities towards the state than the other half?
2. Why should women be perpetually portrayed as soulless sex toys or viewed only in terms of weakness and inefficiency, no matter what they achieve?
3. In wartime, why should women be victims and accept being killed along with their children if there is a chance for them to avoid it simply by taking action in some way?
@alrune8 1. legally justifiable? Yes. The united states already practices this b giving handouts to those who aren't responsible. Let's not forget children. So what you're saying is it's more like all responsibilities landing on 15% of the population. It's completely unfair and responsible men pic up the slack, that's why they are to be revered as the glorious heroes they are, not as opressers as ridiculous feminists portray them to be.
@professorfoxtrot 1. If all you're after in a war is to gain fame so as to be worshipped, I question your righteousness. You might want to stop kissing your mirror. About responsibility, as long as a citizen is adult, they are supposed to be responsible, as the law states itself, in the US or anywhere else. Women can help the way you describe but if they are directly threatened and are to die anywa, I think it's their duty to take action if it can at least let children survive.
People are Idiots and do not think, you cannot blame the companies for taking advantage of the weaknesses of people. There is a simple solution to this problem and that is called "thinking" but evidently that hurts too much so people do not do it.
nazdarbazar2 4 hours ago
is there a 1&2?
where could i find them
feelovesmangos 2 weeks ago
You know guys are all for this materialization of females, because it helps them get more bang for their buck. Literally that is
fcloaked 1 month ago
@fcloaked Later on in the film she actually discusses the sexualization of men in advertisments and how that is, although less common, but quite discriminating and harmful to mindsets as well. but yes. Literally, more bang for their buck.
AnaisForTheWin 2 weeks ago
What a weird looking kitchen.
RealmEternal 1 month ago
@RealmEternal nobody thinks that you're funny. do you have a girlfriend? probably not. i bet you're going to try and tell me that you do. nobody will respect you. i bet girls laugh at you. fucking jerk.
binkgut 2 weeks ago
Is by choice and not forced! It's up to any individual to make their decision but they are informed....
veneer711 2 months ago
Real facts! $ex $ells!!! Could never change that....
veneer711 2 months ago
hey I love the women's movement especially when I walk behind it
femeninists are ugly people who can't get dates
Kalkas53 2 months ago
fuck this liberal propaganda
and fuck phil27
anonymousppl 2 months ago
You are obviously brainwashed if you believe that 'liberal' and 'conservative' titles actually mean anything. They are both Madison Avenue creations designed to cater to multinational corporations and banks by dividing and conquering America with political puppets on each side.
This is not liberal propaganda. Women are advertised as sexual cattle. If you don't get that, you are certifiably retarded. To believe a real conservative, listen to Ron Paul and keep your mouth shut for a year.
MrWakethesheeple 2 months ago
@MrWakethesheeple
You're a fuckin retard. And of course you have sheeple in your name. I think you are the one who's brainwashed. Also Ron Paul? Why would I listen to a racist creationist? Go get fucked.
anonymousppl 2 months ago
I could care less about a woman's opinions. All that matters is how she looks. And she better look good or else I'm moving on to the next one.
JesusManson323 3 months ago
@JesusManson323 good for you.
alrune8 3 months ago
Just remember, the ad agencies since the days of Edward Bernays have at least acted psychopathic (check "freedom from conscience" video). Their job is to make money and if they have to tweak at one's inner insecurities they will do so and not feel at all guilty.
edwardsson777 6 months ago
hmmm in this video she attempts to correlate images of sexualized teens with higher rates of teen pregnancy in the U.S. and the implication is that the media is the cause of higher teen pregnancy rates, but actually, the cause of higher pregnancy rates may be the fact that in North America we actually eat more than most of the entire world, and when children are well nourished they tend to go through puberty sooner, hence more teen pregnancies.
galaxypirate 7 months ago
@galaxypirate ehm, the majority of people in europe is well nourished as well, puberty starts earlier as well than 30 years ago in europe, yet the US have highest teen pregnancy rate of all developed countries.
ledzepgirl92 5 months ago in playlist killing us softly 3
@galaxypirate thank you I have been waiting to hear that for awhile
Kalkas53 2 months ago
@galaxypirate I'm honestly of the opinion that the sexualization of teen girls is a conspiracy to produce more consumers in a neoliberal economy.i'm also of the opinion that the onslaught on women's reproductive rights by Congress over the past year or so is directly related to this.There is a long standing relationship between protestantism and capitalism.there's a reason books and movies like Twilight get made and sell so well.Its to tell girls they're worthless unless they reproduce.
galaxypirate 2 months ago
@galaxypirate also, tell older women they're worthless if they don't look like a 14 year old girl and you automatically open up new markets within the neoliberal economy (i.e. the beauty industry).
galaxypirate 2 months ago
I'm really enjoying my pie while I watch this
wetherbizzle 8 months ago
@wetherbizzle yeahhhhhhhhhhhh
ihaide21 3 months ago
great but we do it better
wrtgroup40 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
does anyone know where to find which ear this speech was released? i need for my uni. basically i need reference..
bkamile 10 months ago
does anyone know where to find which ear this speech was released? i need for my uni. basically i need reference..
bkamile 10 months ago
We watched this movie in my sociology class.
It made me feel really awkward and self-conscious when they were talking about the messages that women should be thin. It's something that I've always struggled with and I have an eating disorder but I've always vehemently denied that it was connected to the media. Now I can see that some of my ideas that my ED is centered on really do come from the media. It was very helpful and moving for me to watch this. I really recommend it.
Sarahrosebello 10 months ago 17
"... the implication is very clear: you'd better change your body, as opposed to changing your husband..." :)))
amandla22323 10 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Your advertising solution.
Sell/Buy/Promote your business/product/company here.
See the exposure u'll gain when advertising with WORLDADSLIST
Save your cost on advertising with our Sponsor Ads.
worldadslist
MegaSmacking 10 months ago
I love this woman.
NakMusic92 10 months ago 10
@NakMusic92 It's too bad that, in an ironic way, Kilborne makes the claim that women don't know what they want. Despite that they created and fueled the industry which caters to them in this way, they're gerenally too stupid to have elected Jean Kilborne to have made their decisions for them.
professorfoxtrot2 10 months ago
where are these commercials? also how could you butcher that song
GooselGoose 10 months ago
Comment removed
GooselGoose 10 months ago
I was looking for a magazine and and I saw one article 'Cheryl Cole gains 3lbs!' 3lbs? Seriously?
destinyhascheatedme 10 months ago
Aww poor girlies
ResistanceofLove 11 months ago
I completely disagree with this video. The psychology here is simply unsound. People are not blank slates which unconsciously absorb ideas and beliefs; We have a choice to evaluate ideas for ourselves. If anything is to be blamed here, it is the shoddy religious parents out there who are fucking up. I am a feminist, but this video makes assumptions about humans that are flawed and not thought out.
darrbare 11 months ago
@darrbare Here, here. A feminist who agrees with me. Like the church, I would argue that Kilborne is preaching shame of sexual desire and that such a 'wicked act' is inherently degrading. In an age of enlightment people should not be so prudish and contemptful of freedom of choice.
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
Comment removed
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
this is true, many girls my age think advertising isn't affecting them, but they still say 'ohh i need to go on a diet, look at the cellulite on my legs/my boobs aren't big enough/my skin is so fuckin pasty' when they are at a very healthy weight and beautiful, and 14 years old. its sad...
society sends out many mixed messages, it makes us young ones confused and overwhelmed...makes me wonder what my children will go through (in 15-20 years time)
raggiedoll2008 11 months ago
The thing that is the hardest concept for me to grasp is the threshold between desiring someone else for reasons that are entirely cultural and desiring someone for reasons that are completely natural: at what point do I sexually like a girl and/or her body for reasons that are totally natural or for reasons that are a result of our culture and negative messages it promotes?
TaurusType 11 months ago 2
@TaurusType I think it's much more natural than you realize. Natural selection is innate and your desires for perky breasts and a firm asses are completely warranted, and don't let any religious organization or feminist tell you're helpless and living in the sin of a corrupt culture. Your body reacts this way out of evolutionary need of passing on healthy human genes and it is actually more important than your own life to pass on a more robust and healthy generation,dont trade that for anything.
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
Yep. Women are idealized... but so is everything else in this world. We all have an ideal or standard we'd like to be. I feel like people have recently been gearing towards making what you have work for you rather than the obtaining something you don't have to make it work for you. I'm one of those skinny, white chicks she speaks of, but no one is rushing up to my doorstep to obtain me. I think people are more about their preferences these days rather than the idealized world... imo
daniz0rz 1 year ago
She should show more examples of advertising with photographs of men. Feminist=reverse gender biased. If they focused on ideas that benefit everyone like a second bill of rights or something they'd be more successful.
RecordStoreTrash 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Be honest naughty women here benaughtyman.info
polklake 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
handsome guy just now need bbw naneedj.info
sonika763 1 year ago
Cool
bendvir 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Best chance to get a Russian lady gettop5.info
BentonCahill 1 year ago
i love this clip if you LISTEN to her you would too!
djcalhou 1 year ago
Herp derp i'm watching this in class
Elementridr 1 year ago 2
lets face it, sex sells
kpilax22 1 year ago
@kpilax22 What do you mean "sex sells"? What definition of "sex" are you referring to? Im a heterosexual woman and my definition of "sex" definitely doesn't include women's t*ts and *ass. When you say "sex sells" you need to qualify what you're saying. Ie. "the heterosexual male ideal of sex sells". if it were MY ideal of "sex" selling it would be an extremely hot MALE half naked. Just remember that when you use the age-old "sex" sells cliche.
LudoPixie 1 year ago 2
@LudoPixie sex is sex, you just confirmed that in your dumb comment. half naked hot people sell, bottom line, dont need to look any deeper thats it
stitchmorg 1 year ago
@kpilax22 That's because there's something WRONG with our society. They don't need to do that, we will always buy things. They could try to sell their product another way. You're sick to respond like that to this. THIS is why so many girls suffer self-esteem problems so terribly. It is ABSOLUTELY "killing us softly" and it's heartbreaking. I'm genuinely sad for you that you can respect human beings or see how bad this truly is.
livebyfaith57 1 year ago 4
Jean Kilbourne, you are my hero!
buffythevamp2008 1 year ago 3
she jelly
GizmoGardenia 1 year ago
I like how she cites her sources
GizmoGardenia 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
FUCK ALL YOU BITCH ASS FEMANISTS! i dont understand why you dont want to cook for us men its not that hard latina girls are better than you cunts. also why cant we post naked women on billboard sighns? i mean c'mon as soon as im a studio owner im gonna advertize playboy and have sexy lesbiens on my channel for young boys as old as 14. fuck ameriskanks.
lilguy1171 1 year ago
@lilguy1171 Good for you.
alrune8 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
if a tree falls and a women hears it, why the fuck is a tree in the kitchen !?!?
Mibabalou 1 year ago
I have a spot I made with a girl, look for it (victoria's secret)
poesiaurbana 1 year ago
capitalism will be look after your child also soon
just need times and infuture you will see 10 years old girls naked and ?????
newsfarsi 1 year ago
I have a spam folder full of "Increase Your Penis Size" ads. Can you say "Gone full cicrcle"?
hollywoodeternal 1 year ago 4
good facts. nice upload
nanaohz 1 year ago
thank you for posting! insightful and necessary.
woodlandreveries 1 year ago 17
be seen as well. Mostly though I don't care about the way a woman looks I care about her personality. Two qualities are essential for me to approach a girl romantically and that's that she needs to be nice and she needs to be single. Probably the biggest turnoff is when a girl flirts with me and then I figure out she's got a boyfriend. Not only is that disgusting behavior but it also shows that she would leave me under the right circumstances. By nice I mean genuinely nice. Not fake nice.
kiron327 1 year ago
You know there are reasons to care about a woman's looks. If they look good to you and you look good to them that probably means that you are biologically compatible. I also think that a girl's personality is written in her face and whether or not their overall personality is attractive to you may indicate whether or not her personality is. Whether or not they are in shape shows whether or not they are willing to work for something they want and if they work too often to visit the gym that can..
kiron327 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
advertisements sell preference, not products, any industry remains unchanged with ads, its just that you buy the brand thats bying advertised rather than the unknown brands.
TheCrazierBW 1 year ago
And beauty is socially inparted, before being fat was attractive because it showed you had money and being pale skinned meant you didnt have to work hard...back when people where either very poor or very rich... now, being fit shows that you can pay for a gym membership and actually have time and devotion to attend while being tan shows that you arent stuck at an office all day... ads do emphazise this, but they arent the problem
TheCrazierBW 1 year ago
advertisements sell preference, not products, any industry remains unchanged with ads, its just that you buy the brand thats bying advertised rather than the unknown brands.
TheCrazierBW 1 year ago
I wonder if feminists realize their platform is oppressive in nature?
grimbz 1 year ago
This one is good!
Jz473 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot I'm sorry, your logic is skewed and if you were yourself a woman you wouldn't be saying this. Women who are in need of a father figure or a guide to make them grow indeed fall into your description. But mature women who have figured a little more about their own lives, search a partner not to ensure their future but to enhance their own lives and share a common goal.
Survival isn't acting like a man. It's knowing what's best for you and it's not the same for every woman.
alrune8 1 year ago 56
@alrune8 Thank you for such a logical and objective comment. I would like to ad, that too many people believe the steriotipcal image that men have everything under control and that women are vournrable. The media often portrays such images and therefore influences sociaty to think that way. Don't base your values on these created images, think and look objectivly and read ethical books and articls, it will make sense to all of you who belive that men thrive for power and women for beauty.
Fruitjoke 1 year ago
@Fruitjoke Thank you for the praise. Well these stereotypes serve the ones who created them. If men only focus on their ambition and women on their vanity, you can do whatever you want, they won't notice. This is how all these people are manipulated.
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 What is this babble? Quite an admission to say that mature women know what's best for themselves when Kilborne endorses censorship, the notion that women are incapable of thinking for themselves and need to be protected from advertisers like sacred cows. Feminist hypocrisy is not to be believed by any rational or free-thinking person. The 27 people who support your response are not independent which is why they require the comfort of approval of others.
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
@professorfoxtrot2 Oh it's you again. Hi! Just back from Dick Masterson's website so you can counter me with some fresh Troll-arguments?
No darling. People simply agree that women don't need to act like men's parasites to survive and that being a self-reliant adult is NOT acting like a man.
About censorship, I see your point. I don't completely agree with Kilborne on that one. But teenagers still remain very sensitive to what the media convey and I think this is where we need to be careful.
alrune8 11 months ago
@alrune8 But given the context in which your claim is made, the people who support this claim are also the same ones who support this video.They claim to be independent yet they seek protection from having their feelings hurt like children under Kilborne and her media censorship crusade when she calls for "control of media" Restrictions on any form of freedom of expression should be absolute and non-negotiable. Even "ChallengingMedia" negates independence by blocking comments from this forum.
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
@professorfoxtrot2 If some women just pretend to be independent but secretly wish to be coddled like babies, that's a fact.
But protecting our daughters from the media's detrimental messages such as "your natural beauty isn't enough, you must get cosmetic surgery" "femininity equals being a whore" "your wishes and dreams don't matter if they don't include serving men" or "you must be weak and ineffectual,else you're not a woman" is needed yes. And I believe this is what Killborne means.
alrune8 11 months ago
@alrune8 But Kilborne is not asking people to make their own discretion to make their own choices. That should go without saying. Kilborne's posits that we are not to rely on our rational faculties when she calls for the deliberate censorship of the media in accordance to her own values. I have never heard any of these slogans you mention in a commercial before which is because you've fabricated them no doubt to demonize advertisers as boogeymen.
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
It's attitudes like Kilborne's that result in association of shame with sex thus perpetuates more humiliation among young girls who want to have sex or enhance their bodies. To Kilborne these girls are subservient slaves to the media who need to be disenfranchised from their own decision-making processes. The implication that these women are automatically subservient to men or that their decisions to buy beauty products makes them whores is a disgrace and Kilborne should show some shame.
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
@professorfoxtrot2 If "enhancing" one's body means to have prosthetic breasts or getting liposuction, I believe we have a completely different idea of what "enhancing" means. This is not enhancing, it's altering. Honestly, contending that all women can look the same from the neck down if they just try to, no matter their bone structure, is just plain lying. Why do I say that? Because there's only ONE acceptable body type for women in the media, and it needs cosmetic surgery to exist.
alrune8 11 months ago
@alrune8 I guess we do have different opinions on enhancement. Lipstick enhances the lips, eye liner accentuates the eyes, breast implants accentuate the breasts. Unless your idea of enhancement is shoving your face full of m&m's and ben and jerry's. Also, you completely ignored the claim on censorship with and replaced it with more babble about acceptable body types. Wanna know what's unacceptable? Subversion of free speech in a democratic society where people are offended.
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
@professorfoxtrot2 My "babble" is verifiable just by comparing ads, not my fault. I understand your bit about censorship and I agree but the simple fact that you believe adverts set a rightful standard for women (and maybe men) simply proves that you blindly believe all what mainstream media convey. So you have no point. And about freedom of speech, I don't see how I "subvert" this just by expressing my views. We just happen to disagree on many things, there's nothing subversive in that.
alrune8 11 months ago
@alrune8 How does it set a verifiable standard? Is it enforced by censorship? Does it propose that we have to buy these products again our will? The answer is No. Kilborne on the otherhand has an agenda of sexual repression and shame and claims that it should be backed by the control of the media. Whether you even agree with the message of commericials is unimportant. The people have spoken and agree that women's asses and tits are sexy and that fat women are not.
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
@professorfoxtrot2 I love how angry suburban White boys believe they are the voice of the people around the world... OF COURSE, women's tits and asses are sexy, they are meant to be! Just like a man's ripped torso is meant to be sexy. But I'm sorry, thinness is NOT a universal rule of sexy, just Hollywood's. It's a known fact that African men, Arab men and Southern American men prefer women with wide hips and rotund curves. Just like Asian women in Asia are attracted to overweight men.
alrune8 11 months ago
@alrune8 As I was reading this paragraph at I almost spit the water out of my mouth at how funny it was. First your claim that I believe I'm the voice of the world followed by your second claim of speaking on behalf of the world and claiming what other cultures like. Particularly your claim that " Asian women in Asia are attracted to overweight men." I can't express how untrue this is when you claim to speak on behalf of Asian women.
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
I'll let Asian women speak for themselves but first you should understand that I'm currently living in Taiwan and I have been to every Asian country except for the more remote ones like Brunei or East Timor and have several female friends in all those countries. Not one has said she prefers fat men. Not a single one. They prefer tall, handsome thin guys which happens to work nicely in my favor. Likewise, Asian men typically want nothing to do with fatter western girls because of their girth.
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
@professorfoxtrot2 Oh really? Rich white boy has a thing for poor, submissive Asian girls? Why am I not surprised? Whichever, what my own girlfriends in Asia told me was that they liked solid men better than lanky men.But I guess none of us can speak for them, so let's admit this is a draw. Still, you say "the people have spoken", so you pose yourself as the voice of the people. Which is ridiculous because your own surroundings are one thing, it's not everybody else's.
alrune8 11 months ago
@alrune8 Poor submissive asian girls? You continue to reveal that you are fantastically uncultured, stupendiously uneducated and apparently quite proud of these things. My girlfriend has a masters degree and works for Sega, how poor she must be. And no, I wouldn't consider this a draw given that your claim was that Asian women go for fat guys. This is based on your shallow world view and you should admit it.
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
I've been in many circles of Asia, among the poor, among the wealthy and I have friends from all walks of life here and they have amply spoken for themselves. I've never forced them to change their minds. And that's a pretty damn good sample given that I've been researching cultures and art extensively here. What have you got? One friend you know living abroad (and who doesn't even claim to like fat guys) and a mind full of prejudice. 你是賤人.
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
When feminists cry about stereotypes, they need to look no further than Alrune8, nay, themselves. Feminism is of itself a stereotype based on a stream of shallow individuals who cry prejudice and discrimination almost as quickly as they dole it out and you've proven my point here. This is why you'll never hear Kilborne or her ilk talk about Sharia law in Tehran or acid burnings in Karachi. They are chiefly illiterate on these issues and are preoccupied with trivial bs such as you see here.
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
@professorfoxtrot2 Somebody who has been constantly insulting me ever since we started talking and who doesn't even REMEMBER that, on another thread, among the very first exchanges of this interesting "conversation", I DID mention the women who suffer TRUE sexual discrimination in non-Western countries, is in NO position to judge me. Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me stupid, just like your visiting of Dick Masterson's website and rehashing of his "clues" don't make you right.
alrune8 11 months ago
@professorfoxtrot2 You obviously believe I see no world beyond feminism, which is really sad because it shows off indeed how prejudiced YOU are. Just because I'm a feminist doesn't mean I don't see what feminism actually is. And about Asian people, I just happen to be half-Asian dumbass! So don't worry I KNOW pretty much as many Asians as you do. And just because you write in Japanese kanjis don't legitimate your contended experience.
alrune8 11 months ago
@professorfoxtrot2 A girlfriend with a masters degree that works for Sega? Oh no, darling you are just dreaming here. Any self-respecting woman wouldn't date some self-serving man who believes that women are essentially parasitic whores that should stay at home, AS YOU SAID YOURSELF on another thread. Changed your mind? Then I was correct 10 months ago when I said you needed a girlfriend. Check the history, I did.
alrune8 11 months ago
@alrune8 Again, no evidence to suggest that Asian women like fat men. Also ethnic decendancy has nothing to do with being emersed in another culture, unless you're going to sit here and tell me that you, a half-asian woman have a genetic proclivity that makes you wet for fat guys. I have to admit that not all women are parasitic whores but I'd say about 90% of western girls are and you know this to be true subciounsciously
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
@professorfoxtrot2 particularly when you make comments like "Rich white boy has a thing for poor, submissive Asian girls" What you're essentially saying is that you believe that Asian women are whores too and are simply doing it for the money as per your typical western girl. Otherwise they should have no interest in the affection they get, nor the loving care of a paternal guardian. Well weep those sleepy eyes. She also does my laundry and cleans my apartment just to make me happy. :)
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
I disagree that you know more asian people than be but that's not the point. Growing up in Asia and growing up in the United States are two entirely different experiences. World's apart actually. I have many asian friends back home who are entirely different from their relatives of the Orient. In lieu of this sexual appeal for thin girls with big tits is still pretty much unanimiously agreed upon. Ergo our primitive impulse for selective breeding transcends culture and offends feminists.
professorfoxtrot2 11 months ago
@professorfoxtrot2 Thin girls with big tits are a nonsense. A woman's breasts are in accordance to her body, meaning thin girls have small breasts, medium ones at best. Very big tits go with girls who have deep ribcages, square shoulders and an all along stronger upper body to support their breasts' weight. Women who have a thin frame and naturally huge breasts often get breast reduction if they can afford it since the breasts' weight causes back and neck pain as well as breastfeeding problems.
alrune8 11 months ago
@professorfoxtrot2 Again, you're putting words in my mouth for your own convenience. I don't blame your girl for anything, if what you give her is what she's looking for, good for her. I'm rather blaming rich white boys who take advantage of foreign girls' misery to have their way with them, and maybe that's what you did. And what should I weep for exactly? That she does your laundry? Is it something I should actually care about?
alrune8 11 months ago
@professorfoxtrot2 Oh, look who finally found love! By Western girls, I guess you mean North American girls because many men agree that European women are very much NOT like that. And no I don't need a "subconscious" knowledge to recognize this. I know that some women are indeed golddiggers. But generally, you get the woman you deserve, that's how it is. If you believe all women are whores, you will get whores. But deep down you didn't want a whore, so you got a self-reliant woman. QED.
alrune8 11 months ago
@professorfoxtrot2 Keeping one's dignity as a woman doesn't include reconstructing your body in order to fit to what the media command you to be by presenting unnatural bodies as the norm. Plus, don't be hypocritical. You consider all of us women whores by nature so stop pretending that buying beauty products doesn't make us whores. And, really, what do you know about adverts? Don't you know that a slogan is only 1/4 of an advert's message? There are always insidious implications in an advert.
alrune8 11 months ago
@alrune8 Sorry professor of dance i didn't know you were a expert on women or advertising I absolutely agree with this video.
ifrusty10 10 months ago
@ifrusty10 I think you're mistaken.
alrune8 10 months ago
@alrune8 I don't know who you are but I agree with ifrusty10
theripvanwinckle 10 months ago
@alrune8 You're missing my point by a long shot. Men do not asked to be worshipped, they perform out of the basic instinct to survive. That is to use theiir man senses and their impassioned logic when called upon. Women do not understand this or what it means to act with impugnity. A woman with a gun will do anything for petty revenge and that means costing her children's lives.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot Survival instincts are universal. Females of ANY species have it just as much as males. It's not a gender-based thing.
I can't speak for other women, but I personally don't do the "petty revenge" thingt nor do I thrive on my emotions. It's something I've learned to tame and use at my advantage, such as reading people's feeling better.
About violence, women have this inside of them but they generally don't derive as much pleasure from it than men, it's true.
alrune8 1 year ago 6
@professorfoxtrot "A woman with a gun will do anything for petty revenge and that means costing her children's lives." You obviously haven't been loved by your mother. I don't think you realize how much that doesn't make sense. You're making a point that men have the basic instinct to survive (its genetically in them, yes, throughout years men has evolved but this is still within them), but you forgot that women have the instinct to be good mothers. It's in us.
ka10218 1 year ago
professorfoxtrot @alrune8 In wartime, if women were actually concerned about the war effort they would shut up and help create munitions and uniforms for soldiers on the homefront so that they would increase their chances of survival which is what they did during WWI and II. Going out and carrying a gun and wondering out aimlessly isn't going to accomplish anything except leaking out sensitive military information resulting in more deaths.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot 3. You do understand that WWIII will be nothing like WWi and WWII don't you? According to many sociologists and economists, half of the planet's population is to die. Which means, there is a high risk for women and children to be targeted just as men will be. If women can't defend themselves in the absence of men, then they might as well never have a child under their responsibility.
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 2. Who said women are sex toys? Though all women are whores that sounds like objectification straight from the horse's mouth! A major difference between men and women is that men do not sell their sex, we give it away for free! All women sell their sex and every woman sets her own price, usually far overpriced market value. Exchanges are made through marriage or prostitution. Feminists hate this because they are unkempt competitors and of course, it's all men's fault!
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot Look if you believe women are either sluts or prostitutes, then case in point, you're a misogynist. You can't command respect from somebody you don't even respect yourself. If you don't even look at us as equals in terms of dignity and humanity, as I already said, don't expect to be thanked. As long as women will submit to these ridiculous trends instead of worrying and studying more serious subjects that actually matter in society, they won't be taken seriously.
alrune8 1 year ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@alrune8 Your logic seems to be escaping you. If I believe women sell their sex, at what point can you claim that I am a misogynist. iI don't hate women. Men and women are not equals since men are better in every aspect including logic! I am not expecting to be thanked, but those who speak the truth seldomly are!
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot I think you're not being serious. We have talked before and you indeed showed that you had more to you than being sexist. I never said women should replace men, I never said we should despise or resent men. I just said we have the right to want something better than being just an accessory to amn's life, even more so when our good will is never repaid.
alrune8 1 year ago 6
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@alrune8 No one should ever go around looking for cheques for goodwill! That's why it's called goodwill! I am sexist because I realize that men are better at practically everything, that means war as well. Feminists cannot wrap this belief around their heads with the fact that I don't hate women. Is imply recogonize the truth for what it is without believing the catchphrases of feministm that women are equally as capable as men without any proof. Women play the victim card!
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot I admire that you at last recognized your misgyny. Took you long enough. But you do understand the belittlement of women is actually what created Feminism, right?
I, and the women I associate with, don't use the "helpless victim" card. Because it leads to reasonings such as yours. If we're givent rights in a nation, it's our duty to own up to the responsibilities that come with them. And that may include defending the country with our lives if need be.
alrune8 1 year ago 4
By your logic, black people [during the civil rights era and even today] shouldn't have anything to complain about, as there obviously wasn't any proof that they were equal to white people. They played the racism card and everything though.
Fool.
Jumpthefences 1 year ago
I've seen the full version of this film. I like it when she goes into sexual orientation. It's so true when she says how heterosexual bias these ads can be. As if heterosexual is the only way. It would be nice to see women with women and not just women with each other with some ugly guy between them. It would definitely be win to see two guys and one woman or two guys on their own. This will be revolutionary indeed and any company doing ads like that will certainly get recognition and respect.
LadyBludgeon 1 year ago
A hetereosexual bias? hahaha Might it have anything to do with the fact that vast majority of people are hetereosexual? It's the same reason why you don't see mass-marketing campaigns for midgets.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@shoujokakumei39 You seem to be crossing a threshold where you're too timid to call a spade a spade in a mind so open (and empty) as yours, and henceforth you ampty illustrate that you don't know what you're talking about. There is nothing that you can say that will deny the hard-wired drive of a man to find a sexy firm-bodied chick. The only thing that is changed is women are becoming fatter to the extent that the average american girl is a whopping 165lb!
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
... It's a fallacy to presume that just because women are changing, tastes are. It just mean the pool for choice is slimmer, like being lost in a forest and finding a rock full of moss. Not a tasteful cuisine but it'll have to do.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
Comparing humans to food is disgusting. I don't compare my man, by society standards isn't perfect, to a hotdog nor do I view him as a walking wallet as most men view themselves these days. As if cash is the only thing that is worth in a man, that's disgusting too.
Also taste has changed, look into history. All of the great master artists painted full figured women not stick figured models so fat was neat back then. Of course back then men made love with their hands/bodies and not their eyes.
LadyBludgeon 1 year ago
Comment removed
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@LadyBludeon Except the part where I didn't compare humans to food at all and compared desperation of choice and lack thereof. It applies every necessity in life whether it be sex, food or shelter, people will make do if given the scarcest options. This is a point I was making (before you tried to derail my comment in into an irrelevancy) to debunk the claim that men suddenly find fat women attractive just because they're increasing in number! It's simple logic ladies.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
The average woman isn't 165 pounds. It's 140 pounds. Get your facts straight.
LadyBludgeon 1 year ago
"she has no lines or wrinkles. no scars or blemishes. Indeed she has no pores."
Definitely this presentation has so much to help you find out who you are and what you want.
What she says about dehumanising and making a woman just about her breasts and bum, is so brilliant. I wish I could articulate myself like that.
When I read something that is about the whole woman- my heart rejoices.
Renabulous 2 years ago 31
@Renabulous Brilliant? This would be passable for a high school social studies class. Does anyone find it ironic that Kilborne's speech is based on dehumanizing while she claims to speak on behalf of all the women that were in the advertisements. Who's exercising their freedom of choice here, the willing consenting women to participate in these commercials or the contemptible shrew who infers that the sexuality of these women is degrading?
professorfoxtrot2 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot2 Contemptible shrew? Because the "shrew" doesnt agree with the media's IMAGE of sexuality? I believe in a woman's choice, just not ignoring the woman, I believe in all sorts of things which some would say oh that's hypocritical, call yourself a feminist? Like I say it's about a woman's right to choose and freedom of speech..its when people make assumptions about a woman who is choosing to speak out that she finds certain images degrading, that shows true repression.
Renabulous 1 year ago
@Renabulous No because this shrew doesn't believe in freedom of choice. The media isn't a single entity. It's consisted of people and these people have chosen their own freewill. By saying that these images are degrading, Kilborne is underminding the women who choose to be in them. She is imposing guilt and shame by suggesting that these women are weak and submissive and need to be helped by her agenda. The overall message is highly condescending and it is motivated by jealousy and contempt.
professorfoxtrot2 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot2 its true that some women have a problem with others for the reasons you say but the woman in this video above is really putting her point across. You can have opinions, doesn't make you a shrew. Not all women are jealous, whether you believe or not, doesn't concern me. Everyone has their issues. I think Jean the lady in the video is an intelligent and broadminded woman. But if you've already made up your mind about her then you can't see it.
Renabulous 1 year ago 3
@Renabulous Having an opinion doesn't make you a shrew, having shrewish opinions does. Jean has nothing interesting to offer that's new or pressing. It really is a classic case of a Marxist notion that appeals to the have nots and spits all the blame and contempt on the haves. Above all, it's embarrassing to presume that Kilborne's thoughts are broadminded and that any who disagrees is missing the greater profound message. Now we're just being obnoxious.
professorfoxtrot2 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot2 This will go back and forth. You've already made up your mind about her and have very strong notions and ideas, I disagree with your post and I disagree with your ideas. I've found one can't argue by that I mean debate with someone who's on a completely different side to you. It then just turns into name calling and I'll have no part in that thank you.
Renabulous 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
As Aristotle posited, the "worst state of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal" Those who work hard on their bodies and model by their own freedom of choice will be paraded and disgraced by Jean Kilborne and her ilk. Those who do no remove themselves from the couch will be showered will Kilborne's glory. Those who challenge this notion with conviction will be scorned by feminists, those who spout falsehoods such as "fat women are sexy" will recieve applause.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
Ever heard of "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"?
alrune8 2 years ago
I like how the media says that flawlessness in a woman is what makes her look pretty. To me, it's completely the opisite. Flawlessness makes them seem alien, unreal, and inhuman. I think a girl with freckles, a little more meat on her bones, and flaws here and there make her look much prettier.
SpiffyBacon 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@SpiffyBacon Completely the opposite? If you had the choice to date Angelina Jolie or Rosie O'Donnel you know damn well you'd choose the former. Feminism is the art of elevating losers to a state of equality and it lends us a host of false beliefs such as the idea that fat women are innately beautiful. However, beauty is a relative term, so if every woman is "beautiful" there is no such thing as beauty.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
@professorfoxtrot.
Funny. You still couldn't answer a very simple question. Why should women be victims? Why should we remain passive?
alrune8 1 year ago 3
Who says, I ask women to be passive? Do what you want, all I'm saying is don't come back crying.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot
Come back crying? Look, if you like women that much, why do you assume we will fail if we take action? You do know that men are not always around to protect us, don't you? Hence we must learn how to defend ourselves unaided when it's needed.
If we can't even protect ourselves, we can't protect our children, we'd be just here like a security blanket, in other words completely useless. What's the use of staying around children if we can't even protect them?
alrune8 1 year ago
Actually the proper term is "come back swinging" so grab a pen and start taking notes. Women are terrible at fighting so why try and be a hero by putting yourself and your children at risk. There are many cases where have gotten their families killed because they decided to be a hero. But unless you're not from a first world country, you're not going to be invaded anyway so why piss and moan about it?
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@alrune8 They're terrible at fighting if they're not being taught how to fight in the first place! Women who have taken self-defense or martial art classes are better fighters than women who never trained their bodies, of course!
And to answer your question: do you think it's legally and morally acceptable for half of your country's citizens to have more responsibilities towards the state than the other half?
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 Same case can be made for 5 year old boys. Fiver year old boys are better at fighting if properly trained, doesn't mean they're not going to get their asses kicked to the moon if you put them in a fight. The solution, don't put them in the fight!!
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot
Let me get this straight...
Are you equating the self-sufficiency of adult women with that of 5 years old children? Is that what you're telling me?
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 I'm comparing ability to fight of 5 year old boys with women. yes.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot
There you go! Now I see you!
You shouldn't be here in the first place, mister. Misogynists are no better than Misandrists and shouldn't speak against Feminism. It's just plain hypocritical to say it's wrong to resent men if you contempt women yourself.
If you deem us of lesser worth and dignity than men, don't expect us to thank you.
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 lol I don't hate women, but I'm not going to see that men are equal to women because it isn't true. I think they should have equality under the law, but I don't think they should be treated as equals because they're not and anyone who pretends they are is a fool. Some people, especially feminists, actually delude themselves into believing that the WNBA is just as good as the NBA.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot Stop trying to twist my words for your convenience, will you?
I am not talking about equality in physical strength. My whole point was being given equality in front of the law and in terms of dignity as a human being. If you don't believe in this, feel free to, not my problem.
But in light of this, it's no surprise you advocate the coercion of women through media pressure. Just like men are coerced BTW but honestly, men are behind most media nowadays so...
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 lol "coercion of women through media pressure." SIsta please, if that's coercive then you might as well just come out and say that women are completely powerless to make their own decisions and that any mere suggestion equates to coercion.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot Sista? No comment.
Look, White actresses and supermodels (because Blacks and Asians have a different pattern of beauty) are chosen according to 2 things: narrow shoulders and shallow ribcage, 2 parts of the skeleton that are heredity-determined, that NO ONE has power over and with which bodyfat has nothing to do.
Do you get it? Very few women in real life have this bone structure. No matter how much weight you loose, your skeleton shape will remain the same. It's unrealistic.
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 Very few people are millionaires, but it's still portrayed as desirable, and hey who wouldn't want a million dollars? I think most people would just as most people want sexy firm abs. But Jean Kilborne and her followers are such haters! They seem to be writing in contempt and bitterness of those who have more, or people who potray those as having more. Kilborne is exploiting people's envies and portraying them as jelousies.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
Basically what I'm saying is Jean Kilborne's attitude sucks! She tells people they don't need to work on their weaknesses and that the rest of the world is at fault for your lack of ambition. This is the recipe for creating a loser. Someone who tries to put down every quality of peopl that's better or more desirable then themselves.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot Having large shoulders, deep ribcage and wide hips is not a weakness, it's an unchangeable pattern of your body. Something you have to live with. And you're not of lesser worth or ugly because you have those. All she says is that healthy, not overweight women with such bone patterns shouldn't feel ashamed of it and not to believe a standard that only few women can live up to. It's not the sole criteria of achievement.
Really, it's like being Black and being asked to be White.
alrune8 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot You compare business achievements with the human skeleton... Your logic is skewed, really! One's body shape remains what it is no matter what.
Take Kelly Osbourne for instance, she has lost an unholy amount of weight yet she is still called "fat" when she's actually as slim and healthy as she can get. She just has large shoulders and wide hips and this is not something she can change, just like her square jaw. She will never be a Kate Moss, her bone structure doesn't allow it.
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 I think a lot of the time women act like men because of a penis envy complex.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot Some women do, it's true. But not all of them.
If you deny us being treated equal in front of the law and being seen as responsible adults, then there is no penis envy, it's just a fight for equal dignity, the rest is irrelevant.
It's not acceptable for one half of the population to have more responsibility to the State than the other half. Period.
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 The fallacy you believe is that I hate women which I think is silly, in fact, I'd pretty much have to be gay to practise a full-out hatred of women. As for contempt, I reserve my contempt to those who deserve it. Feminists are a great candidate for contempt because they're an interest group who wants something for nothing. They contribute nothing to society, but they want more pay for women, and more aptly, themselves.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot Well, that's pretty much why most misogynists who are not gay hate us. You can't stand us but you need us to satisfy your sexual urges so you hate us even more.
You can contempt me for all I care, I'm no US feminist so I don't wish for female domination. My only TRUE wish for women is for them to actually break their own boundaries and incarnate Womanhood in the most noble way. Not by emulating men in their most contemptible traits or conforming to men's idea of femininity.
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 Women need us to fill our sexual urges, it's how we survive as a species. If you look at the scientific scheme of things feminism is actually highly regressive movement because it teaches women that they are victims, internalizes that they are helpless and espouses a hatred of those who provide for them as "oppresors." Such a belief system is destined to make women isolated from men and alone with no provider.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot I agree with that. I know that this side of Feminism is actually even more hurtful to women than plain misogyny. And I don't associate myself with such beliefs.
Men and Women are interdependent and complementary and are to live together so it's stupid to try and turn them against one another. It makes no one happy. Just as it is stupid for one of them to abuse or belittle the other since it just creates resentment.
alrune8 1 year ago
I agree with your points and I am glad that you are responding to the ignorant comments for this foxtrot. Except, I wonder what you mean by "womanhood". What is womanhood? What is femininity These are simply constructs and categories that seek to further control and enforce harmful binaries. Also they assume a universal kind of woman. Look forward to your reply
shoujokakumei39 1 year ago
@shoujokakumei39 There exists archetypes for manhood and womanhood, based on our physiological constructs.
Let's say you have black on one side and white on the other side. And between them, there is an infinity of shades of grey that connects the two. No one is actually "all black" or "all white". It doesn't exist. Still these archetypes remain in all cultures and societies and everyone evolves from them and become a mix of the two.
But we can't deny these archetypes' existence.
alrune8 1 year ago
More families are killed because of male dominance and aggression. >_>
Also to quote Joan Baez "If it's natural to kill, why do men have to go into training to learn to do it?" Men aren't born to kill either. It's a an act that is past on from parent to child depending on the principles of a society. Go back and take notes in an actual anthropology course and stop acting like you know true human nature. Also watch "The Middle Sex". Gender is bs fed to us by the those who rule the laws. Peace.
LadyBludgeon 1 year ago
A terrible argument on the subject of condemning male dominance because without male providers millions of families would die of famine and incompetence. This is how feminists argue, they try and find an extreme outlier of a dominant male who kills his family then sepciously try to conclude that males murdering their families is the norm in addition to being caused by male dominance!
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
Comment removed
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 Eluding what question? The one about women pretending to act like men and then going down in flames bringing their families with them?
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot
1. Do you think it's legally and morally justifiable for half of your country's citizens to have more responsibilities towards the state than the other half?
2. Why should women be perpetually portrayed as soulless sex toys or viewed only in terms of weakness and inefficiency, no matter what they achieve?
3. In wartime, why should women be victims and accept being killed along with their children if there is a chance for them to avoid it simply by taking action in some way?
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 1. legally justifiable? Yes. The united states already practices this b giving handouts to those who aren't responsible. Let's not forget children. So what you're saying is it's more like all responsibilities landing on 15% of the population. It's completely unfair and responsible men pic up the slack, that's why they are to be revered as the glorious heroes they are, not as opressers as ridiculous feminists portray them to be.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot 1. If all you're after in a war is to gain fame so as to be worshipped, I question your righteousness. You might want to stop kissing your mirror. About responsibility, as long as a citizen is adult, they are supposed to be responsible, as the law states itself, in the US or anywhere else. Women can help the way you describe but if they are directly threatened and are to die anywa, I think it's their duty to take action if it can at least let children survive.
alrune8 1 year ago