"Symptoms of Sobriety" by Father Joseph C. Martin

[kisshoney34]

why are people so threatened by AA? Why are people so scared? Is it because the 12 Steps holds a mirror up to your life and makes you take responsibility for it? AA saved my life and my families life. I get everything I need from the love and support of my fellows and if others think is a bunch of bull roar why not keep you opinion to yourself and be on your merry way? Perhaps you attended AA and couldn't stand the sight of yourself...just sayin..

[MrJackshuman]

I don't believe in the disease concept and I certainly have no faith in AA. To those for whom it works, I'm happy for you. To the newbies, please don't be poisoned by the sick philosophy of AA--it's all lies. Newcomers, please try the alternatives such as SOS and use Google to get information. There are a lot of us anti-AA people. Good luck newcomers to a sober life, and remember, you don't have to follow the AA carrot to stay sober. I have 24 years without AA. Peace and love.

[lrlbox21]

ignorance is bliss

[ndrthrdr1]

If AA were only people helping people, it would be a really good thing. At the heart of the program, however, is learned helplessness and faith healing. If AA would lose these elements, and include info about alternatives (such as SMART Recovery, Rational Recovery, SOS, etc.), I would gladly return. This is just my opinion after having spent a year in AA. I now have about thirty consecutive months without a drink, and life is good. Best wishes to all, whatever path you take.

[moejeffreys]

@ndrthrdr1 - I have been a member of AA proudly for 23 years. You need to go to different meetings, if the meetings you attend are about helplessness / faith healing. Nothing like AA meetings I attend. AA is not allied with other groups, including the alternative recovery groups you mentioned. AA is what it is, a 12 step group for recovery. I have no clue what those groups are you mentioned. Attend those meetings if you'd like, but please leave AA alone. AA works for us, as it is.

[ndrthrdr1]

@moejeffreys said "You need to go to different meetings, if the meetings you attend are about helplessness / faith healing."

AA's first step teaches helplessness. "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, ..." This is recited at the beginning of meetings, and is printed in big letters on the posters on the walls.

It's not true. If it were, nobody could have made the decision to come to the meetings, or kept returning, or read the books, or even decided to try to quit. Powerless? No.

[moejeffreys]

@ndrthrdr1 - "...were helpless" being the keyword. Past tense. I am neither helpless or hopeless today. The first step is admitting that we have a problem with alcohol. In my case, I was not able to stop on my own. I needed help. I found the help in AA. My compulsion to drink is gone today. That is not helplessness, nor hopelessness. If you choose to go down a different path to your sobriety, then go. There is no need for you to trash what works for me and millions of others world wide

[ndrthrdr1]

@moejeffreys said "The first step is admitting that we have a problem with alcohol."

No, the first step is to admit that we were POWERLESS over alcohol.

moejeffries also said "I found the help in AA. My compulsion to drink is gone today."

It's the old post hoc fallacy to say your compulsion is gone now BECAUSE you went to AA. Mine is gone, too, and so is virtually everyone else's after abstaining from drink for a while. We get lives, and break the behavior pattern. B after A =/= causation.

[moejeffreys]

@ndrthrdr1 - Don't tell me what worked and didn't work for me. Don't tell me I did not experience what I experienced. I'm glad you got sober. AA works for me, and it works for millions worldwide. I don't know why you hate AA so badly, but it's none of my concern. My thinking and your thinking differ in that I am happy for anybody who finds sobriety, no matter how they find it. You are stuck in a rut hating AA. I feel sorry for you, actually. Let go of the resentment with AA and move on.

[ndrthrdr1]

@moejeffreys I don't hate AA any more than I hate Scientology or the Moonies or any other cult. I just want to pass on the truth about AA - it results in a huge dropout rate and a much higher suicide rate, presumably from the indoctrination of vulnerable newcomers into the false idea that leaving the cult will almost certainly lead to failure. It doesn't. Non-steppers have a much higher success rate, because we don't depend on magical thinking.

[moejeffreys]

@ndrthrdr1 - AA is nothing like scientology, the moonies or anything else. By insinuating that people who attend AA meetings commit suicide at a higher rate than those who do not is absolutely ridiculous. People who attend AA, just like people who choose to attend whatever group you attend, often have other issues like depression. AA doesn't treat depression and neither does your group. You have gone well beyond intelligent discourse in your comments, now you are exhibiting lunacy. No more.

[ndrthrdr1]

@moejeffreys said "AA doesn't treat depression and neither does your group"

No, AA sure doesn't treat the real causes behind one's drinking. They just provide sponsors (advisers without psychological training or certification), themselves with untreated issues..

[ndrthrdr1]

@moejeffreys said " You have gone well beyond intelligent discourse in your comments, now you are exhibiting lunacy."

Translation from cult speak to English: "If you're not in my cult, you're crazy".

By the way, whatever happened to "attraction, not promotion"?

Case closed.

[moejeffreys]

@ndrthrdr1 - I have not been the one making absurd correlations between AA and the moonies. That's you. I am not the one hating on how anybody chooses to get sober. That's you. All I have been saying is get sober any way you want to, the goal is to get sober. I have not said AA was better than any other group. You are the one making inaccurate statements putting down AA. No cultist here...but sounds like you are reading straight from the "Why this group is better than AA" pamphlet.

[ndrthrdr1]

@moejeffreys I agree that a goal is to stop drinking/using. The point I'm trying to make is that there are there are different ways of doing it. The support group of peers is a beneficial, and for many a much-needed, element of various ways of seeking long-term abstinence. Most affordable approaches include a support group element, since we have often alienated our family/friends.

It's problematic to replace untrue beliefs (I can't quit. it's hopeless, etc.) with supernatural thinking.

[moejeffreys]

@ndrthrdr1 - We agree on the goal and the goal is sobriety. Never have I said that AA was the only way, I believe I stated the opposite. What we disagree on is your characterization of AA. I have no idea why you keep saying the things you say, using terms like "supernatural." I have never been to a meeting anything like that...maybe there are groups who do strange things. I can't speak for all AA groups, only the ones I attend regularly. We will just have to agree to disagree about AA.

[moejeffreys]

@ndrthrdr1 - man...the hatred just spews from you. You have serious issues. Hope you get the help you need.

[ndrthrdr1]

@moejeffreys Not faith healing? Praying to a god to help a person with a "disease" IS faith healing. It doesn't work. Google

heart patient prayer study

It is only one of many, many scientifically conducted studies that show that prayer doesn't work.

Step 2: Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

This implies that anyone with a drinking problem is insane, and that a god can HEAL them if they PRAY

Step 7: Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

[moejeffreys]

@ndrthrdr1 - I will not waste any more time arguing with you. If you don't believe AA works, then choose some other method of sobriety. It is none of my business what you do. AA saved my life. I can't say it any plainer than that.

[ndrthrdr1]

@moejeffreys said "If you don't believe AA works, then choose some other method of sobriety."

I already have, as most people have. We know a cult when we see one. We have a much higher success rate without AA than with it. That's why AA attendance is dwindling.

[MrJackshuman]

AA members unfortunately are in denial that they belong to a cult. Since when can you worship a door knob and be Catholic?

[moejeffreys]

@MrJackshuman - you have no idea what you are talking about. I doubt that stops you from talking about other things you know nothing about, either.

[MrJackshuman]

@moejeffreys Does or would AA tolerate designating a door knob as one's higher power an okay practice? Yet here a Catholic priest is apparently a member of AA. Doesn't that seem a little funny to you? Maybe you should present some of your uniquely AA ideas to the general public and see what kind of reaction you get. So I don't know what I'm talking about, but I do live in the real world, not make believe. I know the reaction you'll get. Still, AA is not a cult. Way too funny.

[moejeffreys]

@MrJackshuman - None of my business what somebody else chooses as a higher power. Not your business either. I am not a representative of AA...but I know that you have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry AA didn't help you. It helped me and has helped millions of others around the world. That's all there is to it. I really don't care what you think of AA. You have absolutely no impact on my sobriety, and it's not likely somebody is going to take your spiteful words seriously.

[MrJackshuman]

@moejeffreys Okay, excuse me. My point is I don't know many Catholics whose religion would permit doorknob worship. Also, I'm of the belief that people commonly get sober without AA. My intent is not to impact your sobriety. If Catholics want to join a cult that permits doorknob worship, so be it. It is a free country to worship as we choose and to express the opinions that we choose--except apparently opinions that might threaten the holy fellowship of AA.

[moejeffreys]

@MrJackshuman - and it is a free country that allows you to make ignorant statements like "AA is a cult." It is not a cult. Cults take over your life...AA does not. AA does not say you have to be Catholic, or Lutheran, or an atheist. It does not tell you how to speak, how to dress, what to think. AA simply gives you a set of tools that work. It gives you a support group. Nothing more...nothing less. Some work the 12 steps unwaveringly, others do not. Sobriety is the goal...

[MrJackshuman]

@moejeffreys I'm sorry and just realized how badly I was mistaken. After attending the meetings I attended I thought is was about a bunch of greezy old ex-drunks trying to bang newcomers. That's why I learned to get sober on my own--my mistake. Sorry, I'll be quiet now.

[moejeffreys]

@MrJackshuman - glad you are sober. Sorry you had a bad experience at the AA group you attended...but not all AA groups are like that. The one I attend certainly isn't like that. It is illogical to judge everyone everywhere based on your experience in an isolated location. Good luck to you. Getting sober is the goal, whether you use AA, church, a different type of recovery group...doesn't matter to me. All I can say is AA works for me, and it has worked for millions of others too.

[MrJackshuman]

@moejeffreys Several "isolated locations" in fact, several. I'm glad it worked for you but I'm also glad I recognized it as another money-making ruse similar to tv evangelism. So glad I never drank the kool-aid and I want to spread the word to others: You don't need AA to stop drinking. Happy sobriety moejeffreys.

[philbluntuk]

@MrJackshuman You need a hobby.

[MrJackshuman]

@philbluntuk I have several hobbies, only one of them is donning the cape and saving newcomers from greezy old-timers with the spiritual experience/spiritual growth lie.

[philbluntuk]

@MrJackshuman How would you recommend an alcoholic cures his affliction?

[MrJackshuman]

@philbluntuk An alcoholic always cures his addiction one way: By not drinking. One of the biggest problems I have with AA is that an alcoholic is not allowed to outgrow AA. As it stands, if an alcoholic leaves AA, he/she dies. Those are Wilson's own words, "...most of us will surely die." All one has to do is Google AA alternatives and one can find them. SOS is great. I'm a member online though not f2f.

[rickyd0821]

@MrJackshuman you can come and go as you please in AA. The reason i stsay is to help others and in doing so I take out future insurance for my own sobriety. It is about giving. Resentments are toxic. I have no need to go out and degrade any other options. Sounds like someone has an agenda/ resentment. message me, maybe we can work that out in a quick inventory.

[MrJackshuman]

@rickyd0821 I have no desire for AA inventories. It's not my religion or part of my belief system. The first tradition holds the ORGANIZATION of AA higher than anyone or anything. That's one of the reason it gets criticized. Furthermore, AA has put it in people's heads that an organization is necessary for an alcoholic's recovery--not true. Many AA members drink; you have no insurance for your future sobriety. The way that you keep from drinking is to simply not drink.

[AnviIOfKrom]

@MrJackshuman

"The first tradition holds the ORGANIZATION of AA higher than anyone or anything"

1st TRADITION: "Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon AA unity"

Q: What is "our common welfare"?

A: The welfare that all AAs have in common - PERSONAL SOBRIETY

PERSONAL SOBRIETY is the point of COMMON WELFARE that comes first. And that PERSONAL SOBRIETY depends on AA UNITY.

One interest does not supersede the other. Both interests are INTERDEPENDENT.

[MrJackshuman]

@AnviIOfKrom My "personal recovery" does NOT depend on AA unity. I doubt anyone else's truly does either, though they may think it does--sad.

[iggerdanus]

@son8of8vazkor Curious, why AA has nothing to offer you?

[somethingdiffereable]

Fr. Martin (A.K.A) the ayatolah of the phony disease of acloholism. Fake disease, fake cure. Just another lie by the american temperence movement.

[MrRationalThink]

My 5 yr old cousin would eat the whole box of cookies if he could. He doesn't understand how to moderate. But if he ever becomes fat, I won't make him become an anorexic. I would help him learn will-power, and ways to feel consequences before they happen. This will be the light that guides him. Not the use of fear that makes him hate eating and repent for everything he already ate, that is true denial. My cousin is capable of a normal life, with cookies, he just needs a little guidance.

[moejeffreys]

@MrRationalThink - Then by all means, keep on drinking. It's none of our business what you do. Have a great day unless you've made other plans.

[TheSjpatrik]

"The alcoholic has failed to grasp the obvious" True statement

[squirttilithurts]

Alcohol makes me depressed. I hate it.

[squirttilithurts]

alcohol is so boring

pretty much every other drug is better

[217789jimbo]

THIS ISALL BULLSHIT.

[KeenantheBarbarian]

Sound's to me like you're all stupid. This guy is right considering I don't believe in god nor do I try to hide the fact that I'm drunk right now. I'm so not happy with the shit I'm doing to myself that this guy actually hit the nail on the head. So fucking shut up and stop crying on a page about shit that doesn't even have to do with the video. You fucks.

[12stepfailure]

If you are ever in treatment, these father martin videos are borderline torture!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tobytwirrll]

Oh dear, another lecture on the aa pseudo-science of the "disease of alcoholism", delivered by a priest. He should be ashamed of himself for defecting to the religion of steppism.

[simplicity135]

:::Sigh::: Another flamboyant pitchman.

[spacestate]

Trusting an imaginary made up dictator in the sky to run your life is a symptom of delusion & has NOTHING to do with sobriety.

[squirttilithurts]

@spacestate the placebo effect can accomplish amazing things in someone's mind

[wingnut090290]

Father Joseph Martin really was a Catholic priest. His words have helped me start on my recovery and I am still sober to this day.

[Richcool79]

Is this a real father on this sight? I have never heard a priest talk about alco..I was born into the church but never heard a father touch on this subject..

[jimarsh2002]

In my experience it has been more enjoyable to get and stay sober with other people who have the same goal. The idea that someone with 21/2 pounds of snot between their ears can form an opinion about the universe is hysterical.

[rwsandman]

The Oxford Group is a predecessor of Alcoholics Anonymous. The Catholic Church hated the Oxford Group. Now they're in bed together???

[moejeffreys]

@rwsandman - Oxford group is not synonymous with AA. The only similarity is alcoholism. AA is a 12 step group, Oxford Group was not. Oxford group was based on religious concepts. Although I am convinced after 23 years of recovery that AA was divinely inspired...AA is not based on religion. So...no....the Catholic Church is not "in bed" with AA. Father Martin is a great, great man and he helped literally millions, including myself.

[avalonw7]

As Many are mad at God or atheists when they come into the program.. It is a program for all walks of life and faiths..

That is all Keep comng back. You just might make it...AApetofile... weird screen name ty for letting me share that.. Alcohol or drugs is just a symptom of ther disease.. it is ourselves that is the problem.

[avalonw7]

Got to want it.. works if you work the program correctly. many a famous Star has gone through recovery like Eric Claption, Stevie Nicks and many more.. Its only when you change your mind and want to drink or drug, then you will.. That toaster thing is just for babys in the program.

[dgenerated]

There is a third choice: think for yourself and control your own life. It sounds crazy, but it works. I

[BSproductions45]

It's always fun to be lectured about denial and evasion by a member of the Catholic clergy. It's like being lectured about the dangers of smoking by a CEO of Big Tobacco.

And of course the message is the same old nonsense: You are crap; God is perfect. So turn over you will and life to God. Submit to a Celestial Dictatorship or die an immoral drunk.

There is a third choice: think for yourself and control your own life. It sounds crazy, but it works.

[AAPetofile]

1. I admitted that I was powerless over my addiction, cannot beat it so I drove to a meeting, sat there for an hour, paid for all of their literature, paid the collection bowel, and drove home. I gave up hours of my life daily for three months straight, to be told that drinking is bad for you.

2. Came to believe that I have an irrational belief on an invisible power greater than myself. I have come to believe that at times when I had a hard time with this concept, I

[AAPetofile]

have come to believe that a toaster can control my life, and have considered praying to a toaster, or the wind or other forces of nature. when that was hard to stomach, I believed that a group of drunks who wont take their medicine, are untrained and uneducated, have no legal confidentiality with me, can actually work miracles, of the type that are described in the bible.

3. A was so insane that a decided to turn my will and my life and my decisions of my life over to an invisible deity,

[gtr362]

Father Martin, talking nothing but rehashed AA shit, trying to play it off as "medical" with the chalkboard, makes me wanna puke, but hey I'm sober without him or AA.

[BeepathSkyclad]

Sure wish he'd refrain from wearing that collar. He only represents god, but he isn't god. I always wonder about those red-faced priests showing up with that collar. Always wondering....

[BeantownJim]

Does father Martin have a site in which we can purchase these videos? waiting in Boston ty

[vampirebri]

kelly productions