Robert Fisk : Obama will be worse than Bush

[antiochus66]

he has been got at...

the fact that he never went public with the intel on bin laden's death in 2001-2002.

never mentions the cia connections with this fake terrorist organization.

[tsti72]

Robert Fisk speaks the truth. He was right what he said Obama.

[ghayath2011]

I wish there were more Robert Fisks in the world. I love him

[408Magenta]

Indeed, he was absolutely right about Obama. A weakling and a man of no principles. He is a bought tool!

[viniciusb]

@408Magenta I don't think you heard the man. He is not bought, it doesn't matter who becomes the president anymore, intentions won't change anything, people in power decide, not presidents or congressmen, or people.

[hanksnow2]

@408Magenta - Yes he is owned,..owned like most all of them, by the Rothschilds.

[jimdivax]

It's sweet that people actually think their politicians can make a diffirence...Power no longer belongs to politicians, but to international financial, petro-chemical, and military cartels.

[saqsex]

SHAME ON PAKISTAN FOR SENDING IT'S FORCES TO BAHRAIN.TO HELP YAZID AND HIS REGIME.WHO HAVE MASCARED AND COMITTED THE WORST NITOCROTIES IN THE 21ST CENTURY IN ARABIC PENSULVIA.SHAME ON ZARDARI.GILLANI AND OTHERS WHO SUPPORTED THIS STEP.HOW WOULD FEEL IF GEN.KAYANI DOES THE SAME WITH PPP.SHAME ON YOU .YOU MONGERS FOR MONEY.YOU HAVE MURDERED THE VISSION OF ZULIFIQAR ALI BHUTTO AND BENAZIR BHUTTO.YOU AND YOUR PARTY CLAIMS TO BE PPP OF Z.A.BUTTO NAD B.BUTTO SHAME ON YOU FOR SENDING TROOPS TO BAHRAIN.

[folladordeprostis]

What he thinks if rommey,bachmann or perry wins in 2012,it would be much worse than bush jr and obama in middle east??

[folladordeprostis]

If he dislike zionism fisk should support ron paul

[WreakingHavoc1]

@folladordeprostis I'm assuming Fisk is a liberal, so if someone is a devout socialist they will say they can't support Ron Paul because Ron Paul is the antithesis of socialism since he represents the real solution - LIBERTY!

[folladordeprostis]

@WreakingHavoc1 As far as I know he is neither liberal,nor socialist,he is a pacifist and never voted in his life,actually many liberals feel sympathy for ron paul because he is against the wars and the military industrial complex,against zionism,support legalization of drugs and prostitution,most ron paul haters are right wingers conservatives,not liberals

[WreakingHavoc1]

@folladordeprostis I don't have much sympathy for those who don't vote. Maybe that's his thing, but there are always third party candidates out there offering many different viewpoints. And you can always write someone's name in if all else fails. Voting is an easy way to challenge the system - and it should be challenged. And yes, there are right wingers who hate Ron Paul also - Neocons mostly - and they're statists like liberals. Example - George Bush's spending policies.

[folladordeprostis]

@WreakingHavoc1 also remember that in uk parliament there are more parties than in the usa,but most british prime ministers have been either labor or conservatives,but at least there are more than 2 parties,robert fisk is also anti-zionist,just like ron paul

[WreakingHavoc1]

@folladordeprostis Fisk is a smart guy, but I just don't get those who forsake voting. Again, voting offers the possibility of non-violent change in government. That's really what it is. I follow some of the Anarcho-Capitalists and other groups that tell people to not bother with voting, but I think they miss the point that even if you obtained pure anarchy, some human beings would try to gravitate to positions of leadership. This is just a fundamental trait of our species and culture.

[alexstarovereem]

This man is a liar.

[folladordeprostis]

@alexstarovereem why?

[Khaled4life]

Absolutely true

[edfeltch]

There in no money in isolationism,and I seem to recall a more civilized than we are Ottoman Empire,go watch tv,dils.

[cmwatchers]

obama is worse.

[WreakingHavoc1]

@cmwatchers Fisk was absolutely right, wasn't he? And we've still got another year to go.

[MrFrancesco0p]

Love this guy. Totally agree with him!

[axekicker78]

Fisk is the first person to get Obama right. I miss Dick Cheney. He didn't give a damn what anyone thought, including the American public. You knew where you stood. Even when he lied, he told the truth. With Obama, it's all deceit. His administration is very dangerous because: 1) It's the most secretive in history, and 2) It's not incompetent. At least Bush's idiocy was a buffer to total apocalypse.

[monokhem]

This guy speaks with absolutism, and when he speaks about something we can verify, Osama Bin Ladin's relevance to Al Quaida, we find out he's wrong.

[JohnnyRock2000]

Dershowitz says this man is an antisemitic, so Fisk has got to be on the right track.

[bigmedge]

Obama is the greatest president since Eisenhower. He understands that for the US to succeed in the 21st century, we must follow the German model - a delicate Keynesian balance of partnership between private firms, gov't, & universities, resulting in the manufacturing of endless high value-added presicion technologies, which are highly demanded all over the world. Fisk's ultra-leftist naivete & constant rationalization of Islamist violence & extreme ideologies is a sick joke

[jacksawild]

@bigmedge Every president since Truman has been the same. Obama is the latest actor.

[switch607]

@bigmedge greatest president? what has he done to curb neoliberal power? are you a fan of globalization?

[bigmedge]

@switch607 Globalization is an inevitable reality in a nearly 100% capitalist market world, it's not something that can be or should be curbed

[switch607]

@bigmedge globalization IS inveitable, (sadly thanks to the masons, new world order, 1789 french revolution etc. etc.) the bidlerberg group will rule, there will be a north american continent etc. etc.

but this doesn't mean we have to FLAT OUT ENCOURAGE money to banks, i mean he could of not given citigroup 10 billion? its like saying "we cant avoid the apocalypse" as a christian but doing everything to bring it about! (do you really want to play all 7 trumpets so the intiation can begin?)

[switch607]

@bigmedge i'm not blaming obama for using the dominating hegeonomy ideal of capitalism to dominate. i'm upset for the abuse he inflicted WITH THE IDEA. if they were growing rich and causing suffering from a bizarre babylonian custom of semen exchange I would hate it just as much. 1.6 percent should not own 83 percent invested capital in any power-schematic, the idea "globalization is here to stay" is what allows those weaklings to rule us! secondly, the US is too big and varied to be germany

[bigmedge]

@switch607 I don't like the un-evenness of wealth distribution in our country either. But that means that gov't needs to spend more $ on infrastructure, small business support, & new energy R&D, as well as incentivizing manufacturing. Obama is trying to do this, but with the tea baggers & wall street shills in congress, how much room does he have to operate? Not much, so he has no choice but to implement above-mentioned policies much more gradually & incrementally than he & the people would like

[WreakingHavoc1]

@bigmedge I don't like people who think they have the right to initiate force against others to steal from them. You sound delusional as well as irrational. "Obama is trying to do wonderful things" those darn teabaggers - which are about 5% of Congress are blocking everything! Gosh darn it! Why the fuck didn't Obama do it in his first two years when the Democrats controlled Congress? You clowns have excuses for everything. And now Obama is in Libya. This fool is a puppet - just like Bush.

[switch607]

@WreakingHavoc1 agreed, we should of stayed isolationist since 1913

[WreakingHavoc1]

@switch607 RIght on. World War 1 was a huge blunder. There's a great book on the subject called "Wilson's War." Richard Maybury's books on World War 1 and World War 2 (The Rest of the Story) are also must reads.

[WreakingHavoc1]

@bigmedge ROTFLMAO!!! In a nearly 100% capitalist market????????????? Are you kidding me? The U.S. has two planks of the Communist Manifesto fully implemented and a large percentage of the others. You lying statist frauds keep claiming we have a free market. Either your ignorance is profound, or you are a deceptive shill.

[bigmedge]

@WreakingHavoc1 I didn;t say it was a 100% free market, I said it was a 100% capitalist structure market. READ!! And how the f*ck is the Communist Manifesto in any way implemented in our society??? Sorry but you're either delusional, stoned, or both

[WreakingHavoc1]

@bigmedge You are the one who is delusional. How is the Communist Manifesto implemented in our society? We have two planks fully implemented - the graduated income tax and the central bank. As well as partial implementation of the 8 other planks. It's not that hard to admit IF you're trying to be honest. Most statists seem to have a problem with honesty. And it's not a capitalist structure - the government has total control of the structure. Crony capitalism reigns supreme.

[bapyou]

@WreakingHavoc1 How do idiots like you even breathe?

[WreakingHavoc1]

@bapyou I breathe just fine. How do idiots like you breathe when Obama's cock is being shoved down your throat 24/7?

[bapyou]

@WreakingHavoc1 Tell us a aagin Obama is a "communist," you stupid fuck.

Have you ever expressed any idea that wasn't spoonfed to you by Glenn Beck?

People like you are the reason I don't worry about "conservatives." You're all so fucking stupid you can't tie your fucking shoelaces.

Obama's increased the Afghan war in & he's continued & extended every Patriot Act measure signed into law by Bush. So why would you moron fuck conservatives hate him? He's BUSH DOUBLE!

Idiot moron dimwit fuck.

[WreakingHavoc1]

@bapyou Again, if you'd take Obama's cock out of your mouth you might be able to think better. I'm not a conservative you imbecile. Why would a conservative be taking Robert Fisk seriously??? I voted against Bush twice. But Obama in his heart of hearts definitely holds Communism near and dear. He just doesn't have the political power to implement it. in practical terms, Obama is a statist just like Bush. Statists like wars and total control. Obama would also like total economic control.

[bapyou]

@WreakingHavoc1 Calling Obama a "communist" is proof what an utter buffoon you are.

Glenn Beck needs your votes. Go and suck his balls, would you? Sooner rather than later. He misses you.

Oh and gay boy? Ain't never had a cock in my mouth in my life. (But the working class sure has been getting fucked ever since the Reagan administration.)

What's you address? Bash you skull sooner rather than later, stupid fuck.

Cheers!

[WreakingHavoc1]

@bapyou I know you lefties are full of anger, rage and hate. You're fueled by jealousy of everything around it. It's really a deep self hatred. I would recommend some long term psychotherapy for you and your ilk. Like all irrational fools who have no argument, you resort to violence and death threats. Don't worry, fool, I am well armed. God bless the second amendment. Come on my property and threaten my life and see what happens, you pathetic evil scum.

[undeadpresident]

@bigmedge you are the sick joke, full of meaningless sophisticated sounding bullshit. Let's see what kind of ideology you have when a group of soldiers breaks down your door at night and kills your family then kicks their heads around the street like a soccer ball, then throws you in a gulag for three months where you get spat on and kicked with a bag over your head before finally being dumped back into the street.

[bigmedge]

@undeadpresident you must be talking about the Arab countries, b.c they've been doing that & worse to thousands of innocent civilans over the past few decades. Except their prisoners are arbitrarily executed just as often (if not more so) as they're "dumped into the street"

[switch607]

@bigmedge arab countries basically had peace until we tried to divide them up into nationalistic states they never believed in anyway!

[WreakingHavoc1]

@switch607 I agree. The U.S. should declare neutrality and get out of the Middle East. The U.S. puppet government has been propping up dictators for years over there, and it has created a lot of resentment and instability. All foreign "aid" should be ended as well.

[LordMalice6d9]

@switch607 Arab Countries have NEVER been in peace. It is not part of the Islamic culture to live in peace with others.

[da3skooom]

To the Security Council that the regime of Bashar Assad, the offender has lost its legitimacy to Syrian people and displaced to Turkey, Lebanon, a strong indicator of the seriousness of the situation and which is used by Iran and the militias, terrorist Iranian-backed "Hezbollah militia, Muqtada al- Sadr and the Revolutionary Guards "to spread terrorism, the failure to intervene to stop the bleeding will lead to the decline of international legitimacy in the Middle East

[UdderPunch6]

Judging from the comments here I'd say there are a lot of people that need to do some real research into the history of United States foreign policy and how that has been carried out over the past century. Watch some of the documentaries by John Pilger and Noam Chomsky. See what people who have actually been there say, as opposed to the party line (propaganda) that's fed by talking heads that only serve their master - the

[72Yonatan]

The only tragedy is the hatred and jealousy of the Islamic world toward the west and especially toward Jews and their state.

WIthout that, there could have been peace long ago.

[UdderPunch6]

@72Yonatan Look...I don't know where you are from, but imagine, if you can, a foreign army occupying your country, your town, blowing up buildings, killing innocent civilians, and committing all kinds of atrocities. The Islamic world does not hate Americans because they despise our freedoms, as our government and news would lead you to believe, they hate our government because of its foreign policies and history of militarism. People like Mr. Fisk, who live there, say that time and again.

[ImperialGuard9001]

@72Yonatan How can you have peace when you are occupied are you joking? If I go to your house and say Now is my rules my game my will you will stand for it?And then I would say you only hate me because you are jealous? I am sorry but are you retart or just ignorant?

[skinnybigguns]

you stay there because you have nothing else in your life. you are a lonely soul with your lonely 'you have to write me' blah blah. buddy. times are a changin get with it or it gets you. thats how the world turns. you know you is irrelevant???? YOU

BUSH?? you knew he was a disaster? you are not a leader my man you have no idea. Obama is a true leader Bush was not. there is a difference

[gjohnson0116]

@skinnybigguns HA! Your kidding about Obama right? He's the weakest and worst President arguably ever!!

[skinnybigguns]

you stay there because you have nothing else in your life. you are a lonely soul with your lonely 'you have to write me' blah blah. buddy. times are a changin get with it or it gets you. thats how the world turns. you know you is irrelevant???? YOU

[ashken79]

Fisk is a  typical left-wing masochist who never miss an opportunity to sympathise with the enemy.

[BalkanibalX]

Well he got the Obama and bin Laden thing right

[latinamajor]

Mid Eastern Arabs are like rednecks... they like guns, violence and cars and they want to kill anyone who isn't just like them.

[ImperialGuard9001]

@latinamajor When you occupy a country the indegeneous will probaly revolt... And use guns.. Is called war

[latinamajor]

@ImperialGuard9001

Really? I guess the Tibetans never heard of your broad generalization, huh?

[ImperialGuard9001]

@latinamajor Tibetans will not be around in matter of 20 years... Yeah Pacific Resistance realy works with Chinese...

[latinamajor]

@ImperialGuard9001

O really? Perhaps you have never heard of Martin Luther King or Mahatma Gandhi? Perhaps you have never heard of Lec Luenza? What about Nelson Mandela? Perhaps you have never heard of the Arab Spring uprisings in Tunesia and Egypt? Perhaps you have not heard of the Cedar Revolution or the Orange Revolution? Perhaps you have not heard of the uprising in Lithuania and Latvia? Perhaps you have not heard of the uprising against Aparteid? Pacifism is fine... learn to play

[ImperialGuard9001]

@latinamajor Is fine as along they dont star shooting you perhaps you never heard of Prague Spring or Hungarian Revolution or Croatian War for Independece the Slovenain War of Independece or the Civil War Lybian war or Syrian Uprising or Yemen Uprising all arab revolts aswell how they are doing? Gandhi was shooted Martin Luther King was shooted and both deaths lead to more violence

[latinamajor]

@ImperialGuard9001

you stated that pacifism does not work.  I proved that your assertion was incorrect. Does it always work? No. Does it work sometimes? Yes. See?

[darkshewbacca]

"Obama will be worse than Bush" is really taken out of context...

[LEGOsplosionFilms]

Not impressed in the least!

[umid95]

he is awesome=)

[alexanderwotl]

Legend!

[celigne]

Fisk should get the Nobel Prize for public speaking. He's even better than Obama at it.

[UnitedUmmahinshAllah]

Very refreshing indeed!

The guy is way too smart!

Wish him all the best!

Wanna learn MORE from him!

[rmcdaniel423]

Refreshingly honest and direct. More people need to hear his words. And more importantly, GIVE THEM DUE CONSIDERATION!!

[doyoureallythinkso]

Robert Fisk was absolutely right.

[WreakingHavoc1]

@doyoureallythinkso No kidding! Now Obama has taken the U.S. into Libya without even consulting Congress.  Not to mention the troop increases in Afghanistan and the escalations in Pakistan.

[Katyusha666]

lol, the Dutch hosts don't seem too happy about his views on Obama though his views are quite enlightened.

[djolivierastro]

@Katyusha666 They are not Dutch , they speak Dutch , yet they and I are Flemish , part of Belgium as you may know -)

[Darusdei]

hahaha love the comments "i agree with fisk obama is a bad president" how very fucking deep thoughts :D

rather ridiculously predictable and pathetic :DD

[dazza2151]

Extremely off topic, but that panelist is like a cross between a woman and a man. Geez

Anyways, could listen to Fisk for hours, such an intelligent human being.

[greenfeld5]

some point of mr fisk is truth in my view .

obama will be disaster to middle east . to the world economy . he doesnt know the real truth obama he doesnt know what he doing

you mr fisk also wrong , you didnt born in middle east , / i did ,

[mikecorbeil]

There are things Robert Fisk says that I agree with and some that I don't, but one that I agree with is that Obama isn't really better than Bush. At least with Bush we knew where things were at, besides for the cover-ups, of course; but it's still worse with Obama. What Fisk says of positive note about Obama is something I don't agree with. Obama's supporters said he graduated in Constitutional Law and there's no real evidence for this, except a piece of paper degree! Et cetera.

[NathanZackery]

He says he doesn't like the internet, but if it wasn't for the internet then I would have never heard of Robert Fisk!

[truthmaster10000]

obama is stupid.

like osama he is irrelevant, just like islam.

[thatsmyrail]

@truthmaster10000 Calling him stupid is ridiculous. He is a constitutional lawyer graduated from Harvard. Did you accomplish more? Don't think so. And he is irrelevant indeed, as the president of the US. (Sarcasm). I don't agree with his foreign policies though.

[ajatkinson2004]

He has good ideas, but he loses a tad of credibility with me as far as those eccentric views on the Internet. If anything, the Internet and online libraries have made the greatest literature accessible to everyone from the comfort of their home.

[Gregory10000000000]

Obama, recognise the Armenian genocide and save your soul!

[zoolander12345678910]

He's got some great points.

[ourouba]

what a human being! can't say how much i have respect for him

[jpararaja]

Strange how Fisk says he expects only correspondence via "real letters" rather than email, yet he simultaneously gestures at 1:43 as if he's typing on a keyboard or typewriter lol.

[CenturionXII]

The guy is right, instead of sending soldier whe should send doctors and Learned people that followed university..

[klootzak37]

just criminal

[tarnopol]

Where's the whole thing? Would love to see it.

[1sthighkick]

Arrogant cunt!

[klootzak37]

All obama has done till this moment is speaking. His speeches sound well, but his decisions so far are shitty, really shitty, why does he keep the american army in Afghanistan I don't understand it either what they want from them. This guy tells more than the truth.

[lukzbro777]

thanks for sharing

[Duperpower]

Power talks Politicians walk.

[markhalfmoon]

Robert Fisk is full of shit. He says Obama is worse than Bush, using the dubious logic that 'at least we know Bush is a bastard, while Obama is an unknown quantity'. This logic is as flawed as that of some blacks in the U.S. who claim to prefer the overt violent racism of the South to the subtle and latent racism of the North because at least we know for sure theyll lynch us down there, but we dont like living among those who probably wont lynch us but may secretly want to'. This is absurd.

[leninstreet]

Obama is useless. He is incapable of doing anything else then walking through a mine field. You follow such a man at your own peril. Being a leader means among other things taking decisions that are painful and unpopular in order to change the agenda. Look at his action with sending troops to Afghanistan. Anyone with half a brain can tell you that no good can come of that yet he is willing so sacrifice those men for political reasons. It is simply to hard to change the agenda. The old lies work

[markhalfmoon]

Perhaps "anyone with half a brain" can tell me that and just has, but I've got a whole brain and if you don't think this leader is making decisions that are painful and unpopular, well I cannot change your mind and will not try to.

[leninstreet]

This is not about me. It's not even about my country. My stake in this is only as a citizen of the world. You would be wise to ignore me and focus on the facts here. This man is brought and paid for by special interests who will do what is required for them to survive. They have already stolen 13 trillion dollars and axpanded wars that are clearly unwinnable. I wonder what great idea they will think up next.

[markhalfmoon]

I apologize for getting personal like that. It's uncalled for. I just get so frustrated by the kind of argument you offer. You ask me to focus on "the facts" and then offer me the "fact" that "This man is brought and paid for by special interests" with no real evidence of this. We can guess and suppose all day, but that is not proof of anything. The next "fact" you offer is that "They have already stolen 13 trillion dollars." Who are "they?"  Facts are verifiable. Otherwise it's just guesswork.

[leninstreet]

All these facts are in the open and uncontested. If you are unaware of them then that is not my problem. The so called 'bailout' costs total 12.8 trillion dollars. That is roughly 1 years worth of GDP for the US. That is money that the US government has given in your name that you in one way or another will have to pay for. Perhaps you can google it.

[markhalfmoon]

Ok... That's enough of trying to have an intelligent debate/discussion with someone who uses imaginary facts. I won't be paying any 12.8 trillion dollars to anyone. It was Bush's bailout, not Obama's. Seems if you're going to debate, having actual information would be helpful to you. The "go look it up yourself" school of argument of Bush/Quayle/Palin is a loser.

Adios amigo.

[RothdeMan]

And this is why the US will see ruin! the partisan bs when from Bush to Obama all hands are not clean. Bush did his damage. And Obama is doing his. That is the truth despite trying to justify the bs with pointing the finger. Especially now!

[wizkid961]

@markhalfmoon

It was the Traitor Bitch Pelosi's Bailout you Blind Liberal Moron!!!!

And yes every American will Pay for it, wow are you one Brain Washed Socialist Liberal Moron!!!!

[markhalfmoon]

Don't you mean "you Blind Liberal MORAN!!!!?"

[wizkid961]

All you Socialist Blind Liberal Morons know you are Lost!!!!!

[markhalfmoon]

@wizkid961 SBLMs unite!

[leninstreet]

He will ride the empire to the bottom. But he will narrate the process beautifully.

[markhalfmoon]

How incredibly witty. Ha ha ha.

[Longlivepalestine]

@markhalfmoon What a terrible analogy. I don't even know where to begin.

[markhalfmoon]

@Longlivepalestine Actually I don't see why you think it's a terrible analogy. Perhaps you would like to explain?

[countrysamurai]

I think your analogy is absurd. It's telling that you didn't listen to a word he said. He has spent 33 years in the Middle East...I think this puts him in a better position to evaluate and comment on the situation...than you?

Obama was elected on the premise that we would have change...transparency in government, ect, ect ect.

It hasn't happened nor will it. Bush is absolute scum...obama is just a continuation of bush...that's all!

[chainzdown2dadik]

obama is bringing transparency to the white house. random people showing up at state dinners, what could be more open to the public than that, i beg you!

[markhalfmoon]

I listened to the whole thing. How could you possibly know how many years I've spent in the Middle East or even if I am from the Middle East. I don't think I'll engage any further in this caliber of discourse.

[chainzdown2dadik]

pretty decent analogy but here is the problem. when reality is on the surface it is easy to know what to be weary of. when it's embedded in a facade, you could be fucked and not even know it. the black community, my people, are being screwed by blindly supporting liberals who merely use them as a political weapon to fulfill their agenda and crackpot social philosophies.

[markhalfmoon]

Politics is never all on the surface.. That's just the nature of it. It will never change. So, we learn how to use what politicians do and say in public, on the record, to pressure them to live up to it. We don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

We can go on distrusting politicians. We ought to. But just because we've been screwed over by them before, does not mean that one cannot be the exception and genuinely want to make life better for us. I can think of several.

[chainzdown2dadik]

the difference between a baby and the government is that i like babies, of course i don't want to throw a baby out. the state on the other hand is a destructive and useless entity. it's more like throwing the dirt out with the bathwater. and it's not that i distrust politicians, i distrust the idea that an organization with the power to make the rules in which others must follow will do so for the good of the people, as if they'd know what to do anyway. obama is benevolent but an imbecile.

[highviolettes]

thank you Robert Fisk.

[spareaxe]

Who the fuck is this guy?

[Metsada007]

Robert Fisk is a righteous and honest intellectual. Like Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky and others.

[arabarian]

A great political commentator. He is expressing, in plain language, what peaple all over the world and not only arabs or moslims, believe. Thank you mr Fisk

[WholeBlood]

At long last, it's time to boycott the apartheid state of Israel.

[Gentenaar1988]

In Afghanistan staat men niet te wachten op democratie. Het is iets wat wij in het Westen onszelf willen wijsmaken. Die volkeren streven in de eerste plaats naar stabiliteit en als dat kan onder een Talibanregime, why not? Zie Afghanistan al een Amerikaanse voet voor de Centraal-Aziatische deur. (lees: Kaspische Kuip, gas-oliecontracten en vooral veel geopolitiek)

[micheldezanger]

he knows what he's talking about!

[PSmithFortyTwo]

He's seen them all - presidents, potentates, war criminals and the poor bloody dead civilians they kill - 33 years worth of lies, war, murder, genocide and corpses.

Why, its enough to make anyone caustic. ; )

[Redcarpet01]

The worst of the Middle-east history isn't necissarily the last half-century. The Crusades and Mongol invasion were probably way worse. Henceforth they're remembered mroe vividly and passionately by the Arab world. Literally Western history in the M-E began WITH the Crusades. Beforehand it was merely whispers heard in pubs about the region. And we're still there killing the natives to this day, almost a thousand years later. It's disgraceful

[Durendal33]

The Crusaders left no legacy in the Middle East and most people of the region didn't even know they were there before they were gone.

This Crusader talk in the Middle East is a response to "Western" dominance over the region, good or bad, but it is not a historical grievance.

To put the Crusades on a historically equal footing with the Mongol invasions of Genghis Khan or the genocidal campaigns of the Timurid's in that region is like suggesting the Falkland war is like WW1.

[Durendal33]

In effect one can see the dominance of "the West" in the fact that even the peoples in the region are starting to take on "our" historical narrative which is not there own.

[Redcarpet01]

"The Crusaders left no legacy in the Middle East" ROFL! Can only wonder whom your 'historians' are your sources for reading up on history.

[Durendal33]

Yes it's difficult to believe that campaigns that were such monumental events in Western civilisation and history, had little impact and meaning in the Middle East.

The only legacy of the crusades are some crumbling castles.

That now in the current geopolitical reality , the crusades became a political tool and thus carry significance to the peoples of the region doesn't hide the fact that at the time the peoples of the middle east hardly knew the crusaders were there before they were gone.

[Durendal33]

Saladin for example who today is venerated by the peoples of the region as a kind of , anti Western hero. Was at the time much hated and mostly remembered for his wars with other Islamic empires.

He was far from the romantic depiction of him that emerged in Western Europe.

Quite frankly he wasn't remembered or celebrated at all.

[Durendal33]

"It is through the French and British, principally, that Arabs of the 19th and 20th centuries rediscovered the Crusades. Modern Arabic terms for the Crusades, such as harb al-salib, were coined in the 19th century as translations of European terms; there had previously been no Arabic word for "crusade". "

Which further shows how utterly insignificant the impact of the crusades was on the Arab and Muslim world at the time.

[alaqsafighter]

@Durendal33

yes the massacare of 70000 muslims is irrevelent  of course

were did u get this from.

[Durendal33]

@alaqsafighter I have no idea what you are refering to or what it has to do with anything i wrote.

[abarth64]

Read "Les Croisades vues par les Arabes" (The Crusades as seen by the Arabs), by historian Amin Maalouf and then visit the Middle-East to check out what the Crusaders left behind, then talk about the influence of the Crusades on the Arab world. Not before.

[Durendal33]

@abarth64 He's not a historian but a Syrian journalist turned writer.French educated and you can tell.

For example he takes the view that Saladin isn't and wasn't venerated enough in Western Europe.The only place that even remembered him in the first place.

And who's poets and writers and troubadours turned him into the epitome of chivalry.

[Durendal33]

He even wrote that Saladin should be seen as one of the rightly guided Caliphs.

I certainly hope Arabs and Muslims don't follow him in this. It's bad enough they have taken on our historical narrative when it comes to the crusader period.

Then again it wasn't really there choice but a result of the 19th and 20th century European colonialism who's legacy unlike that of the Crusaders still lives on.