It really ps me off that Believers get away with total illogical & outright mendacious claims hiding behind God beyond the physicality yet controlling the physical Universe. WTF do they mean by that? If God is omnipresent why can't nature be? Nature, at least, shows its face, why does God not show? Yea it is non Physical. D
Include Creation as a class, just don't forget all other beliefs that are creationist such as ancient Babylonian, Egyptian, Native American, Hindu, Norse, Japanse and Chinese traditions if not more. To do otherwise would be to condemn your future to the intellectual poverty these Christians continue to reveal
"you staked the claim that you need a creator for creation, you stated that you need a painter for the painting, yet now you use time and chronology to somehow get out of the fact, we need to know who created the creator."
If you Believe in your Believe, and you have no scientific prove beyond reasonable doubt, then its just a Believe we all entitled to have for the sake of our mentality.
If you do not feel comfortable with Believing somethings based Believe that cannot be proven, by all means, choose not to believe and go on with your life.
We can see clearly that all the moustache guy has is Believe to justify his claims.
I respect his right to believe but bottomline is , to him his Believe is Reality when regardless of his absolute believe, he cannot prove his believe is the Truth.
If only he can prove his god exist. The problem is his believe is such that you cannot question his believe. His god is above everything. Thus, its the Truth that cannot be questioned.
banana man says that jews (randomly bringing that up) go to heaven and that he knows this because hes jewish. what an arrogant bastard to assume hes going to heaven hahaha
If we believe that God does not exist, do we go around behaving any way we want? Letting loose, so to speak? When these Atheists die, do they still call on God? I'm sure that they do, but will he answer? Probably not. When their family members pass away. Do they care? I have had experiences where I know they were not coincidences. A greater power had to be at work. These people are nuts!
@hopeleannad Atheists do nice things because they are nice people. Religious people do nice things on the threat of divine retribution. Which do you think is the more moral?
@hopeleannad So you're saying that the only reason you don't go around killing and maiming whoever you want is ONLY because you believe in God?Are you so mentally feeble to not know right or wrong without fear of holy retribution guiding your actions? This is WHY atheism is only for the mentally gifted. And know they don't call on God when they die, that's what the 'A' in atheism stands for genius.
@ 4:57 in the video. The apostle Paul's version of christ is entirely different than the ones of the disciples. Paul never knew christ. All of his views were based off of hearsay and what he made up in his own mind for christ to be to himself. THAT IS IDOLATRY! kirk. you keep contradicting and hanging yourself. By the way, I am an ex christian, now atheist.
That is exactly why the bible is a lie and why it is so full of contradictions. unknown authors wrote the bible with there own misconceptions of who they thought god was. it wasn;t from god at all kirk. that is why the bible is the most confusing book in the known world.
"god" living outside of time Ray is not how your god was created. it's a damn COP OUT! for not actually having an answer to the question. Epic FAIL!. Go study physics and thermodynamics Ray. That is how life evolved.
Also its really funny because that chick was talking about how unmoral that or this was and a couple years after this someone told me she becomes a prostitute. i love her standard for morality.
@psychedellic420 I was talking to 83redrose83, he was saying it was entirely the culture that effected which religion you would follow. My comments on time were referring to the video contents.
@83redrose83, How come there are Egyptian Christians then? and against the universe being infinite is the law of casualty. Also consider this... If there were an infinite regress of events or time then there would an infinite past and we would never end up in the present.
@XerxesTheory Errr dude, that doesn't make any sense: "If there were an infinite regress of events or time then there would an infinite past and we would never end up in the present." That makes no sense at all. Plus it's the law of "causality"... the law of "casualty" as you put it probably only applies in hospitals...
@XerxesTheory at some point Egyptian Christians were socially influenced by some factors that influenced them to believe Christianity. You are not simply born one religion or another, based on the culture your a part of and the social norms or mores, you develop your own set of beliefs which normally (but not always) are similar to the rest of your culture. Thats why when you think of hinduism you simultaneously conjure thoughts of India.
Comfort and friends are prepared to lie and be deceitful in the name of their cause. If they were honest and admitted there were several brick walls they cannot climb over, then they might win some converts. But they break the commandments, they edit their videos to make themselves look good, they break their own moral code over and over to 'prove' themselves. Worse, the whole Christian movement encourages self-deceit. No wonder they are filled with shame.
He twisted Kelly's argument. Believers, Politicians, Magicians, Charlatans always do. FFS answer the question. People who twist like that should be punched in the face by Mr T. These 2 goons are self appointed vigilantes imposing their will onto others without their consent. C'mon you troglodytes, man has come of age to decide iis own fate. WTF are you to tell save my soul? I did not appoint you. If Masses knew your façade, they'll lynch you, literally tear you apart, I would, for lying
Given the arguement used by the moderator of any specific religion being a cultural projection, isn't Kirk kind of shooting himself in the foot at about 4:45?
they said the universe came from nothing at 9:00 translated into logic they don't know what created the universe they are just skeptis who have failed to find God.
TheWayofTheMaster posted an edited version of this debate where all these fabulous points are cut out. Please thumbs up this video and then go thumbs down those videos. Don't do it for me do it for intellectual honesty!!!
Thumbs up my comment, and possibly post it everywhere.
Read the book "The Hero, A Study in Tradition, Myth and Drama" by Baron Raglan
OR just look at this site wikipedia(.)org/wiki/FitzRoy_Somerset,_4th_Baron_Raglan#The_Hero its wikipedia. It will show you a list of events heroes have in common as written. Then look up via google for the same topic (not wikipedia), you will find that alot of characters have a few things in common.
Science isnt even a finished product. This is the Answer: God created begginings how does science explain miracles? it cant. does God question our existence? nope. why do we even have such a thing as existential quandries...?
Kirk and Ray need to read Stephen Hawking's new book, "The Grand Design" and they will see that there is a new (updated) answer to the question, "Where it all began?" Just because you don't have an answer for it, doesn't make it "god"... Atheists admit that they don't know the answer "yet" - but as Hawking's new book demonstrates, we WILL find the answer without saying, "if you don't know, then god did it..."
These atheists are really bad at presenting their position? Do you not realize that God is self-existent? He was not created, He is the Creator! If you say that its hard to understand how something could always exist, you need to consider the alternative, that at one point NOTHING existed and then, out of nothing, came everything. That is simply unbelievable. If anything exists, an eternal, self-existent being MUST exist.
I proclaim that there is a God - am I mentally insane if I think that the universe satisfies all of the qualities of the god of my understanding? I find the mental 'delusion' statement a bit inappropriate and quite subjective - Nature has impressed upon the mind of man the idea of God, therefore I conclude that not only is the concept of god an internal projection, but also observed as that of existence. I find it difficult to understand why an atheist would argue that I am wrong in my belief.
i think this debate went pretty well. both sides made some good points (though the guys on the left made more good points) and I'm pleasantly surprised that it didn't break down into angry name calling and viciousness. It was rather civilized.
@Serbitar You're speculating and wrapping it in false science jargon. "outside the universe" just may be an oxymoron. We could never know if there is anything outside our universe, or if such a concept even exists, so there is no science in your comment.
@Serbitar Science has proven no such thing. Beginning and end are not scientifically proven, nor has science proven the statement that "All things existed were once created".
Again...atheists always believe in God then they get disappointed in God or religion for something that happen or didn't happen in their lives and they start doubting God's existance. If an atheist says he never believed or had the desire to believe that God exists, it's a lie. Period.
I'm a Christian and I'll admit that the Banana squad really messed up this time. They didn't even answer the question. Thank God our team has much greater minds that that exposed in this video. I have never once referenced Kirk Cameron or Ray Comfort when dealing with secular ideas, God bless 'em...
I hate to throw a wrench into the intellectual gears that are undoubtedly turning in everyone's heads, but was I the only one that could not stop staring at that chick's rack whenever she opened her mouth? I'm now a believer of God, because those jugs are heavenly.
3:47 That's just a damn lie Comfort, New Zealand is a christian nation, with only 1/4 people identifying as being non-religious. A simple wikipedia search will reveal that.
@holyjesus Agreed, I had been wondering why they even bothered to have a moderator since he sat there while Ray and Kirk kept violating the agreed format.
@Pinkaugust hey wait a minute, isnt that the same asshole that claimed michael jackson was child molester? yea i can see why people would believe him. Ignorancy.
Is Ray a Christian or a Jew? He said he is a Jew but he also said he is a Christian. You can't be both. Also, in space a billion miles wouldn't even get you to Uranus at is closest distance to Earth
Yes you can be both, you can be born into jewish blood (a better way would be saying semetic blood) and then reject the religion traditionally tied to it.
but if you reject the religion then you aren't Jewish anymore, just like if you reject Christianity you are a Christian anymore. You can't be both because to be a Christian you have to believe that Jesus was the messiah and to be Jewish you believe that the messiah has not come yet. You can't believe someone is the messiah while simultaneously rejecting that that person is the messiah.
Right but its more than just a religion thats what I am saying. There is a whole Israeli culture. Trust me, I was born Jewish I have the big nose and curly hair I have the blood but not the faith, see what I mean, I am still Jewish I am just not a jew.
because in the context of what Ray said he meant practicing Jew. He mentioned Jews going to heaven, non-practicing/non-religious Jews don't believe in heaven because if they did believe in heaven they would be practicing/religious Jews, and that the first Christians were Jews, there was no such thing as a non-practicing Jew when Christianity started.
Many Christians consider themselves Jews in the 'covenant sense'. Additionally, Ray might be a Jew by birth, putting him in the Jewish culture, or the Jewish race. He might actually be able to trace his lineage from the tribe of Judah.
That's the tricky thing about Judaism: it's something of a culture, something of a religion, and something of a blood lineage.
Perhaps a reason the universe can't be infinite is because is because it's constantly expanding. And there is observable evidence for this expansion.
If the universe is expanding outward, you could logically conclude that it once was all closer together (too close for life too exist), and it all originated from a certain point.
This is where the Big Bang Theory comes in, and the universe isn't infinite if it is constantly expanding outward, which it has been discovered to be doing.
The other people are projecting false gods. Silly other people. Why can't they just see the real god like us. Does Kirk really take himself seriously when he says this? The are just not answering the question, because they don't even seem to understand the question. Because they are so caught up in their own version of their imaginary friend, they cannot see that it is every bit as imaginary as every other imaginary friend.
consider, "god" is not comprehensible. "God" is not a "he". God is incomprehensible to us. We cannot argue for or against. We have not existed long enough to know and we will not exist long enough to know for sure. We will however exist and live and enjoy the bounty of life as we suffer in life as well. It is enough that we are and it is enough that we be grateful for that.
They look a bit stunned after the moderator put them in a corner, and just what is it about Kirk and Ray anyway? They seem to have this creepy relationship going, but I won't insult homosexuals and call them gay.
so ray and kurt git on tv by saying they have scientfic PROOF of god, and than try to turn it in to a sermen... this is chirch tv on ABC. i bet ABC got mad.
holy shit comfort is so stupid it is astounding. he is not able to understand the simple concept that he is a christian because that was the only, or at least the dominant, game in town. totally cannot understand that simple point. he should stick to standing on the street with a bullhorn.
when we hit the play button after we rewound all this time, it would show that the universe was created by another dimension, or realm if you will. therefore, the universe is finite.
the universe is eternal? really? the universe grows very big and very fast. faster than the speed of light acutally. there are actually so many stars and other galaxies out there that we won't ever see because the space in between us and these other galaxies grows faster than light itself. soooo, if we could hit the rewind button, all that space would shrink down and implode itself into another dimension.
technically the universe is eternal u have the bigbang then u have the bigcrunch which is an expanding universe when all than kenetic energy is used all up gravity the weakest force pull every thing back into a final point then the bigbang happens all over again!!!!
yes, the universe is not eternal. ray and kirk could've pointed this out (if they were even somewhat intelligent) but then the opposition could've easily said "okay, existence itself is eternal; it was never created," and the ending would've been the same.
These two morons are basically preaching and talking about personal experiences as opposed to actually putting forward arguments. I´m sure most decently intelligent Christians are ashamed of Kirk and Ray.
The debate moderator seems to be on the attack. He can't seem to get the simple point across that other cultures have other gods. The idiots just don't get it.
humans have 46 chromosomes, other mammals have 48...we only use 10% of our brains, 10X weaker than primates. We were genetically engineered. So yes, in a way you could say we have a creator/God. But, not the pagan myth/pledgerized God, we worship. Seriously, christianity is a minority compared to other religions. Why would ours be right? You are stubborn if u think we r the only intelligent beings in the universe...animals don't have souls? But we do? Please, that is donkey stuff.
At 4:42 is the best explanation. He reveals himself to you. I was a pagan, and he showed me that worshipping toher GOds was wrong, I didnt know where to look in the Bible, but he led me to it before I even knew that pagansim was in the bible. God does reveal himself, but unless you believe in Him you will never see it. Thats just logic. You know when someone has had that saved experience you cant get them to turn away, like me, I now know God, and will know Him more and more.I refuse to deny Him
After watching the videos on your page, I see what you were actually trying to say. I read your post as you were a pagan and out of the blue some sort of divine inspiration showed you the way.
I would still contend that going from beliefs in witchcraft and paganism to monotheism isn't a rejection of making idols.
Nice, very humble comment, I am glad I actually checked back to this page. I dont want to argue about idols, greed is idolatry too. I learned that from the bible. But its a major thing rejecting idolatry as a Christian, so I think that we have different understandings of idolatry here. In my experience I have to avoid idolatry, and you imply my belief in God is still idolatry. I just dont agree, and I dont want to get into a tissy. But peace to you in Jesus name.
My perspective stems from the idea that people are not always honest and that scripture is not holy. The idea of God and his persona is nothing more than the writer's view of God; he creates an idol through scripture and philosophy. Those who subscribe to the text of a religion are also adopting that idol.
Compare that to what Kirk said about what constitutes idolatry.
Going from polytheism to monotheism just means a change of idols then (fewer of course).
Well I see your argument here based on what was said in this video describing a type of idolatry. I just have a different view of scripture than you.. But its after 2am in California so it is way past bed time. Good night, peace again... My redeemer lives!
in fact we believe it is expanding. As for what is at it edge or what its edge is "made of" there really is no way to even make a guess at that. And we DO believe space had a beginning.
Eight minutes into this video, the atheist says that the universe has always existed and that it is a scientific fact. This is 100% wrong. Science says the universe was created in the Big Bang. The universe had a precise moment of creation. In this moment, time and space were created. Science cannot be used to provide a cause for creation. We can't conduct experiments outside of space and time. Relativity doesnt apply outside space & time. Science can't explain it, but God can.
Singularity is an assumption, and even if it was a correct assumption, singularity SHOULD be TIMELESS, otherwise you have a contradiction. So tanon77 is still correct, the universe did have a cause. Some jump to the conclusion that it's god, others say we don't know. The fact is we don't know anything that happened before 10^-43 seconds after the big bang.
You are still saying the universe is eternal. That is exactly what I stated and exactly what the RRS was saying. How does agreeing with what I said make Tanon correct?
Philosophy aside, yes, we don't know anything about the universe that fraction of a second after the big bang.
Where did I state the singularity was the cause? I explicitly stated the singularity and the expanding universe are the exact same thing, just different in appearance.
Yes, we don't know the cause for the big bang and for the current argument we don't need to know. From what the RRS said, the conservation laws supports an eternal universe.
I think Kirk and Ray should have focused on the fact that there is no proof of evolution or the big bang, or anything science has claimed that mankind wasn't there to witness for that matter. Instead it seemed like they were just there as evangelists rather than debaters.
Brian brought up the point about snakes with legs, which is false. And there is no scientific proof that they ever were legs. Not a single snake fossil with fully formed legs has ever been found.
how ironic, a creationist is gonna talk about facts
there are tons of fossils with proof that these dinosaurs have existed millions of years ago.
yet you creationists believe earth is only 6000 years old. so your believe is implying that the millions of scientists around the world who say dinosaurs have been extinct for 65 millions years are wrong? and that dinosaurs co existed with man like in the Flintstones?
and of course you believe in 900 year old men living in big fish and resurrection
Why do Ray and Kurt insist on giving scientific proof that god exists? They can't accept the fact that religion and science are two separate categories. They insist on proving their religion to everyone, instead of just accepting that religion and science cannot be reconciled. Like when they try to teach creation. Creation should be discussed in school but not in a science class. All the creation myths of the world could be taught in a social studies class. And insanewombat is right about 8:23
well the reason why they use scientific proof is that is that the bible itself makes many claims that can be tested scientifically.. it is true that science cant disprove the existence of god.. but that also means that they cant disprove the existence of a pink unicorn, creator of the universe..
sure science can't disprove god, but science is much more logical than the talking snake, 900 year old man, dinosaurs co existing with man, and ressurection.
but if you were raised secular and not associated with a specific religion, you'd NEVER believe in these myths. you believe because you were raised that way.
logic alone disproves many of what is said in the bible,and morally why would anyone wanna associated with a religion who sends homosexuals and jews to hell for being different?
Debates such as these should include in the live audience, people who had experienced 'scientific' clinical physical death, and to hear there reactions to the statements being made.. After all, they experienced albeit briefly, what we all will encounter after our existence. I think also lie detector equipment, scientifically and statistically proven to be accurate most of the time, should be in place to garner some sense of the veracity of the statements THEY make.
If I believed in God before I watched this debate. That lame ass "eternal dimension/timed dimension" answer just sold me to the other side. They're really hurting themselves more than the RRS are every time they open their mouths.
I'm christian, and I agree Ray and Kirk are hurting themselves. First they say they'll present you scientific proof, and so they somewhat do, and then slowly go to faith and the bible. This argument disappointed me.
This debate was won by the atheists because Ray and Kirk kept mentioning faith and the bible. I'm christian, and I would agree Brian and Kelly won this one. Ray and Kirk didn't present the strong arguments of creation.
It's interesting what he said about atheism restoring ones health... yet present day studies have proven that those who attend worship services regularly tend to live longer and healthier lives.
these studies you refer to about "people who worship tend to live longer" does not prove that worship CAUSES prolonged life.
Dont forget something fundamental in statistics: correlation does not imply causation! just because worship may be correlated with living longer does not mean it is the worshiping that is prolonging someone's life.
You really should educate yourself. He never said the studies prove worship causes longer life. He just said what the study was and what the results were. You're the one jumping to conclusions, not him.
It's funny how youre telling me to educate my self when I was the one giving a justified correction to Mikeyboy's reasoning. Between you, me, and mikeyboy, Im the only educated one here. Im sure your knowledge in math/logic doesnt go past HS algebra. lol. how Ironic that you tell me I should get educated lol
It really ps me off that Believers get away with total illogical & outright mendacious claims hiding behind God beyond the physicality yet controlling the physical Universe. WTF do they mean by that? If God is omnipresent why can't nature be? Nature, at least, shows its face, why does God not show? Yea it is non Physical. D
amoralis123 2 weeks ago
haha she is doing porn now
smartinez281 3 weeks ago
LOL 08:20
xrayt3ch 1 month ago
Tip for the American Education System:
Include Creation as a class, just don't forget all other beliefs that are creationist such as ancient Babylonian, Egyptian, Native American, Hindu, Norse, Japanse and Chinese traditions if not more. To do otherwise would be to condemn your future to the intellectual poverty these Christians continue to reveal
krinoable 1 month ago
"you staked the claim that you need a creator for creation, you stated that you need a painter for the painting, yet now you use time and chronology to somehow get out of the fact, we need to know who created the creator."
ya dumb ass fucken christian
krinoable 1 month ago
Excellent Conclusion to the debate!
To me , the conclusion is :
If you Believe in your Believe, and you have no scientific prove beyond reasonable doubt, then its just a Believe we all entitled to have for the sake of our mentality.
If you do not feel comfortable with Believing somethings based Believe that cannot be proven, by all means, choose not to believe and go on with your life.
Believe can be good.
Believe can be bad.
Its dangerous when it becomes 'Real' to you.
smellyfry 2 months ago
We can see clearly that all the moustache guy has is Believe to justify his claims.
I respect his right to believe but bottomline is , to him his Believe is Reality when regardless of his absolute believe, he cannot prove his believe is the Truth.
If only he can prove his god exist. The problem is his believe is such that you cannot question his believe. His god is above everything. Thus, its the Truth that cannot be questioned.
smellyfry 2 months ago
banana man says that jews (randomly bringing that up) go to heaven and that he knows this because hes jewish. what an arrogant bastard to assume hes going to heaven hahaha
Raphinater 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Raphinater
Lets admit the truth... Christians are evil! There is enough scientific proof for that!
Nuff said!
Citabria007 2 months ago
2:30 this is the killer argument. If faith comes spontaneously to people then Christians would be spread evenly throughout the world.
ianchard 3 months ago
@Normoremrniceguy100 that wasn't the correct context try again next time :).
XerxesTheory 4 months ago
If we believe that God does not exist, do we go around behaving any way we want? Letting loose, so to speak? When these Atheists die, do they still call on God? I'm sure that they do, but will he answer? Probably not. When their family members pass away. Do they care? I have had experiences where I know they were not coincidences. A greater power had to be at work. These people are nuts!
hopeleannad 4 months ago
@hopeleannad Atheists do nice things because they are nice people. Religious people do nice things on the threat of divine retribution. Which do you think is the more moral?
ianchard 3 months ago
@hopeleannad So you're saying that the only reason you don't go around killing and maiming whoever you want is ONLY because you believe in God?Are you so mentally feeble to not know right or wrong without fear of holy retribution guiding your actions? This is WHY atheism is only for the mentally gifted. And know they don't call on God when they die, that's what the 'A' in atheism stands for genius.
diacron 3 months ago
@ 4:57 in the video. The apostle Paul's version of christ is entirely different than the ones of the disciples. Paul never knew christ. All of his views were based off of hearsay and what he made up in his own mind for christ to be to himself. THAT IS IDOLATRY! kirk. you keep contradicting and hanging yourself. By the way, I am an ex christian, now atheist.
Nomoremrniceguy100 4 months ago
That is exactly why the bible is a lie and why it is so full of contradictions. unknown authors wrote the bible with there own misconceptions of who they thought god was. it wasn;t from god at all kirk. that is why the bible is the most confusing book in the known world.
Nomoremrniceguy100 4 months ago
"god" living outside of time Ray is not how your god was created. it's a damn COP OUT! for not actually having an answer to the question. Epic FAIL!. Go study physics and thermodynamics Ray. That is how life evolved.
Nomoremrniceguy100 4 months ago
Also its really funny because that chick was talking about how unmoral that or this was and a couple years after this someone told me she becomes a prostitute. i love her standard for morality.
XerxesTheory 4 months ago
@holyjesus, when did they say that?
XerxesTheory 4 months ago
@psychedellic420 I was talking to 83redrose83, he was saying it was entirely the culture that effected which religion you would follow. My comments on time were referring to the video contents.
XerxesTheory 4 months ago
@83redrose83, How come there are Egyptian Christians then? and against the universe being infinite is the law of casualty. Also consider this... If there were an infinite regress of events or time then there would an infinite past and we would never end up in the present.
XerxesTheory 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@XerxesTheory Errr dude, that doesn't make any sense: "If there were an infinite regress of events or time then there would an infinite past and we would never end up in the present." That makes no sense at all. Plus it's the law of "causality"... the law of "casualty" as you put it probably only applies in hospitals...
hmspinaforethisisspa 4 months ago
@XerxesTheory at some point Egyptian Christians were socially influenced by some factors that influenced them to believe Christianity. You are not simply born one religion or another, based on the culture your a part of and the social norms or mores, you develop your own set of beliefs which normally (but not always) are similar to the rest of your culture. Thats why when you think of hinduism you simultaneously conjure thoughts of India.
psychedellic420 4 months ago
what are you talking about relating to time?
psychedellic420 4 months ago
I WISHED THAT THEY WERE MUSLIMS THEY WILL FIND THE ALL ANSWERS IN THE QURAN
MsFnooo 5 months ago
Being Christian IS a cultural thing....moron.
83redrose83 5 months ago
Comfort and friends are prepared to lie and be deceitful in the name of their cause. If they were honest and admitted there were several brick walls they cannot climb over, then they might win some converts. But they break the commandments, they edit their videos to make themselves look good, they break their own moral code over and over to 'prove' themselves. Worse, the whole Christian movement encourages self-deceit. No wonder they are filled with shame.
rcguy69 6 months ago
He twisted Kelly's argument. Believers, Politicians, Magicians, Charlatans always do. FFS answer the question. People who twist like that should be punched in the face by Mr T. These 2 goons are self appointed vigilantes imposing their will onto others without their consent. C'mon you troglodytes, man has come of age to decide iis own fate. WTF are you to tell save my soul? I did not appoint you. If Masses knew your façade, they'll lynch you, literally tear you apart, I would, for lying
amoralis123 7 months ago
Given the arguement used by the moderator of any specific religion being a cultural projection, isn't Kirk kind of shooting himself in the foot at about 4:45?
DarthBismarck 7 months ago
they said the universe came from nothing at 9:00 translated into logic they don't know what created the universe they are just skeptis who have failed to find God.
thereverendreeves 7 months ago
@thereverendreeves Nobody has found God!
diacron 3 months ago
0:54 He's pretty much saying "I have no more arguments, so I'm just going to make shit up, okay guys?"
pokerguy94 7 months ago
8:25 = GG, no rematch....
itirnitii 8 months ago
I feel a bit sorry for the Bananamen. They look so pitiful.
Abena20 8 months ago 2
*facepalm*
SezSays 8 months ago
TheWayofTheMaster posted an edited version of this debate where all these fabulous points are cut out. Please thumbs up this video and then go thumbs down those videos. Don't do it for me do it for intellectual honesty!!!
zippythewildone 9 months ago
I think the interviewer was giving him a freebee, i mean yeah, Christianity was not intended to be a Western, its just now prevalent as western.
fearfulmatrix 9 months ago
The universe is not infinite because it is expanding.
Phillo127 10 months ago 2
Thumbs up my comment, and possibly post it everywhere.
Read the book "The Hero, A Study in Tradition, Myth and Drama" by Baron Raglan
OR just look at this site wikipedia(.)org/wiki/FitzRoy_Somerset,_4th_Baron_Raglan#The_Hero its wikipedia. It will show you a list of events heroes have in common as written. Then look up via google for the same topic (not wikipedia), you will find that alot of characters have a few things in common.
MaxBlight 10 months ago
aaahhh that damn logic... it gets them every time
MrFamine69 11 months ago
Science isnt even a finished product. This is the Answer: God created begginings how does science explain miracles? it cant. does God question our existence? nope. why do we even have such a thing as existential quandries...?
mooooooobs 11 months ago
Kirk and Ray = Pwn3d!!!
SkepticalBliss 11 months ago
Kirk and Ray need to read Stephen Hawking's new book, "The Grand Design" and they will see that there is a new (updated) answer to the question, "Where it all began?" Just because you don't have an answer for it, doesn't make it "god"... Atheists admit that they don't know the answer "yet" - but as Hawking's new book demonstrates, we WILL find the answer without saying, "if you don't know, then god did it..."
SkepticalBliss 11 months ago 2
These atheists are really bad at presenting their position? Do you not realize that God is self-existent? He was not created, He is the Creator! If you say that its hard to understand how something could always exist, you need to consider the alternative, that at one point NOTHING existed and then, out of nothing, came everything. That is simply unbelievable. If anything exists, an eternal, self-existent being MUST exist.
ptomer 11 months ago
From 2:12 to 3:14 = hardcore Jesus rape.
pillsburydude 1 year ago
Can anyone say "pwned"?
n8style 1 year ago
I proclaim that there is a God - am I mentally insane if I think that the universe satisfies all of the qualities of the god of my understanding? I find the mental 'delusion' statement a bit inappropriate and quite subjective - Nature has impressed upon the mind of man the idea of God, therefore I conclude that not only is the concept of god an internal projection, but also observed as that of existence. I find it difficult to understand why an atheist would argue that I am wrong in my belief.
StephenWebb1980 1 year ago
Bwhahaha
"If you gonna get back something has to be infinite?"
"Well the universe..."
*Kirk Thinking for a second*
"Well what created the universe!?"
Oh my god, that sums up Christianity and how dumb Ray and Kirk are.
scrap222666 1 year ago
9:28 BAZZINGA!
Saskuash420 1 year ago
i think this debate went pretty well. both sides made some good points (though the guys on the left made more good points) and I'm pleasantly surprised that it didn't break down into angry name calling and viciousness. It was rather civilized.
rushindulen 1 year ago
The universe consists of time as space.
Everything in time and space has a beginning and an end. That is scientific fact.
Everything that is outside of the universe, is not controlled by time and space and therefore does not succumb to physical laws which we understand.
The universe is bound by time and space, and so IT MUST have a beginning an and end.
God = The thing that created the universe (the thing that created time and space).
If it created space and time then it cannot be a phy
Serbitar 1 year ago
@Serbitar You're speculating and wrapping it in false science jargon. "outside the universe" just may be an oxymoron. We could never know if there is anything outside our universe, or if such a concept even exists, so there is no science in your comment.
rushindulen 1 year ago
@Serbitar Science has proven no such thing. Beginning and end are not scientifically proven, nor has science proven the statement that "All things existed were once created".
TheBlackSwanFlies 11 months ago
Again...atheists always believe in God then they get disappointed in God or religion for something that happen or didn't happen in their lives and they start doubting God's existance. If an atheist says he never believed or had the desire to believe that God exists, it's a lie. Period.
mikamiller2008 1 year ago
I'm a Christian and I'll admit that the Banana squad really messed up this time. They didn't even answer the question. Thank God our team has much greater minds that that exposed in this video. I have never once referenced Kirk Cameron or Ray Comfort when dealing with secular ideas, God bless 'em...
jimboo40 1 year ago
All i have to say is owned the end they looked just dumb founded looking at each other like well that was fing fast im pretty sure we just lost
Timmurrayjr84 1 year ago
God is fucking immune to time and logic?! What a fucking cop-out, shitty answer!
fireguy15207 1 year ago
I hate to throw a wrench into the intellectual gears that are undoubtedly turning in everyone's heads, but was I the only one that could not stop staring at that chick's rack whenever she opened her mouth? I'm now a believer of God, because those jugs are heavenly.
Genjimaru87 1 year ago 3
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SomeFunkyDude79 1 year ago
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SomeFunkyDude79 1 year ago
Atheists : 1 Kneelers : 0
TheDINGO82 1 year ago
3:47 That's just a damn lie Comfort, New Zealand is a christian nation, with only 1/4 people identifying as being non-religious. A simple wikipedia search will reveal that.
cheezel177 1 year ago
ABC is biased because allowed Ray and Kirk (is that his name?) to preach instead of presending proof, they (ABC) don't dare do etherwise
Evolvedprimate 1 year ago
impressive
DaRkLeOnN01 1 year ago
i love watching banana man and crocoduck boy squirm as they bleed out over Occams razor
onikage187 1 year ago 7
ABC seems kinda biased here huh when the middle guy confronts Ray and Kirk?
Fuck it, what am I pleading for my enemy? LOL
Anyway....
Voodoofreak35 2 years ago 11
Well, they promised not to use the bible, and then used the bible. The moderator should get peaved when any debater lies or breaks the rules.
holyjesus 2 years ago 25
@holyjesus Agreed, I had been wondering why they even bothered to have a moderator since he sat there while Ray and Kirk kept violating the agreed format.
sgmarshall 1 year ago
He's not biased, he's addressing a problem with their argument.
:)
Pinkaugust 1 year ago
@Pinkaugust hey wait a minute, isnt that the same asshole that claimed michael jackson was child molester? yea i can see why people would believe him. Ignorancy.
fatherjon908 1 year ago
Is Ray a Christian or a Jew? He said he is a Jew but he also said he is a Christian. You can't be both. Also, in space a billion miles wouldn't even get you to Uranus at is closest distance to Earth
sschoenh 2 years ago
Yes you can be both, you can be born into jewish blood (a better way would be saying semetic blood) and then reject the religion traditionally tied to it.
VictorEchoNovember79 2 years ago
but if you reject the religion then you aren't Jewish anymore, just like if you reject Christianity you are a Christian anymore. You can't be both because to be a Christian you have to believe that Jesus was the messiah and to be Jewish you believe that the messiah has not come yet. You can't believe someone is the messiah while simultaneously rejecting that that person is the messiah.
sschoenh 2 years ago
Right but its more than just a religion thats what I am saying. There is a whole Israeli culture. Trust me, I was born Jewish I have the big nose and curly hair I have the blood but not the faith, see what I mean, I am still Jewish I am just not a jew.
VictorEchoNovember79 2 years ago
A non-practicing Jew, which I am also, is more commonly called an Ethnic Jew but its just semantics
sschoenh 2 years ago
If it is just semantics why did you bother pointing it out?
VictorEchoNovember79 2 years ago
because in the context of what Ray said he meant practicing Jew. He mentioned Jews going to heaven, non-practicing/non-religious Jews don't believe in heaven because if they did believe in heaven they would be practicing/religious Jews, and that the first Christians were Jews, there was no such thing as a non-practicing Jew when Christianity started.
sschoenh 2 years ago
Many Christians consider themselves Jews in the 'covenant sense'. Additionally, Ray might be a Jew by birth, putting him in the Jewish culture, or the Jewish race. He might actually be able to trace his lineage from the tribe of Judah.
That's the tricky thing about Judaism: it's something of a culture, something of a religion, and something of a blood lineage.
FiverBeyond 2 years ago
Perhaps a reason the universe can't be infinite is because is because it's constantly expanding. And there is observable evidence for this expansion.
If the universe is expanding outward, you could logically conclude that it once was all closer together (too close for life too exist), and it all originated from a certain point.
This is where the Big Bang Theory comes in, and the universe isn't infinite if it is constantly expanding outward, which it has been discovered to be doing.
DwightsConverse 2 years ago
You can constantly approach 0 without ever reaching it.
gameboypen 2 years ago 2
The other people are projecting false gods. Silly other people. Why can't they just see the real god like us. Does Kirk really take himself seriously when he says this? The are just not answering the question, because they don't even seem to understand the question. Because they are so caught up in their own version of their imaginary friend, they cannot see that it is every bit as imaginary as every other imaginary friend.
ptolemyauletesXII 2 years ago
I could see those two theist clowns shrivelling up towards the end.
spacecowboy95 2 years ago
consider, "god" is not comprehensible. "God" is not a "he". God is incomprehensible to us. We cannot argue for or against. We have not existed long enough to know and we will not exist long enough to know for sure. We will however exist and live and enjoy the bounty of life as we suffer in life as well. It is enough that we are and it is enough that we be grateful for that.
kunglek 2 years ago
Most of the applause was for atheists side. Irony is this debate was held in a church.
lostinxlation 2 years ago
This guy sounds and looks like he is arab and he is so bias.
TheJohn832 2 years ago
Isn't it interesting that this same debate is up on "Thewayofthe master" YouTube videos (Ray & Kirk's crowd) but COMMENTS ARE DISABLED.
Things that make you go "Hmmmmmm....."
What are you guys afraid of? Scrutiny?
Man this is so transparent I don't know how ANYONE can believe the bullshit that spews from the mouths of these guys.
warren52nz 2 years ago
"God's immune to logic and time".
How convenient. There's no end of sidestepping to try to explain the stupider bits of Christianity.
He created the Earth in 6 days? "Ummm... a day in the Bible is 3 billion years."
Get a grip fella. It's all bullshit.
Correction: The law he's quoting is the 1st law of thermodynamics not the 3rd (the 3rd deals with entropy). Science invites correction. 8^)
Interesting how Ray and Kirk just ran out of answers at the end. Owned!
warren52nz 2 years ago 4
They look a bit stunned after the moderator put them in a corner, and just what is it about Kirk and Ray anyway? They seem to have this creepy relationship going, but I won't insult homosexuals and call them gay.
bartonim 2 years ago
Yeh, don't offend homosexuals.....they are normal people unlike like these god fearing wanks!
MIGS1989 2 years ago
Ray doesn't seem to understand how to answer direct questions. reminds me of a politician
Belramous1 2 years ago
so ray and kurt git on tv by saying they have scientfic PROOF of god, and than try to turn it in to a sermen... this is chirch tv on ABC. i bet ABC got mad.
jasonoatmeal 2 years ago
@jasonoatmeal
Of course. TheWayOftheMaster had absolutely no intention of actually obeying the rules of the debate.
TheBlackSwanFlies 2 years ago
all they do is babble plz just stop it ray and kirk
plz i cant stand it ne more
Dyl8888 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
GOD IS ETERNAL!!!!!!!!!THERE U GO
ese1818 2 years ago
wow, ray and kirk were destroyed at the end of this clip.
you could see it in kirks face when he says "we believe god is infinate" that the arguement was lost to blind unquestioning faith.
"if god can be infinate, why can't the universe be infinate?"
the universe as it is today is hasn't had an infinate static history. but the parts that make up the universe existed in some other form.
twiistaaa 2 years ago
holy shit comfort is so stupid it is astounding. he is not able to understand the simple concept that he is a christian because that was the only, or at least the dominant, game in town. totally cannot understand that simple point. he should stick to standing on the street with a bullhorn.
BillKiernan 2 years ago
Hey Kirk, Horus was the son of God, born a Virgin, had 12 disciples, cured the sick, and was crucified. Yet Horus lived 1200 years before Jesus.
Do you believe that Horus is God? Nope. Why? Because Horus was the god made up by the Egyptians.
Isn't it Odd that Horus has the same exact story as Jesus, yet Horus was "created" centuries before Jesus.
dfrutled 2 years ago
LOL
This Ray is a clown
Lekeeon 2 years ago
And God said........."I AM"
YAAUFA 2 years ago
The new zeland guy is not from down under
im Australian and where "down under" cause as an Australian i totally disown this guy
linxxy007 2 years ago
if god created everything wouldn't he want everything to believe in him? How could god create humans with the ability not to believe?
getkrunk89 2 years ago 2
Or why would God place evidence that is contrary to the bible.
GorgonLuvs8008135 2 years ago
This wats happens to true good people throughout history they always get insulted.
It doesnt matter now soon coming events will reveal the truth. Prophecies had and has fullfilled
finalgenius 2 years ago
hahaha 8:20...
they're speechless now that they've realized they have no logical or reasonable response to clear thinking
mcdubba 2 years ago
son.
you just got wrecked.
RaunchyApple 2 years ago
Even the moderator is getting in on the action there. They got worked right at the end there I love it, the opponents are literally left speechless.
soccerphyico 2 years ago
Rocked to the core... Lols!
Toastyfire45 2 years ago
Atheist 100000000, Christians 0.
king198777 2 years ago
8:25 owned....
hellhammerz666 2 years ago 28
lmao! most definitely
JoseEatsAirplane 2 years ago
@hellhammerz666 that right there is priceless comedy
Bailey2794 1 year ago
@hellhammerz666 ABSOLUTELY!!!
Nomoremrniceguy100 4 months ago
"thats why when moses said 'what's your name' he said 'I am' "
What more proof could you ask for?! LOL
esk89ld 2 years ago 2
Lol no response.. The winner of this debate is painfully obvious.
dpxstsmfp 2 years ago 2
when we hit the play button after we rewound all this time, it would show that the universe was created by another dimension, or realm if you will. therefore, the universe is finite.
NacheMan 2 years ago
the universe is eternal? really? the universe grows very big and very fast. faster than the speed of light acutally. there are actually so many stars and other galaxies out there that we won't ever see because the space in between us and these other galaxies grows faster than light itself. soooo, if we could hit the rewind button, all that space would shrink down and implode itself into another dimension.
NacheMan 2 years ago
technically the universe is eternal u have the bigbang then u have the bigcrunch which is an expanding universe when all than kenetic energy is used all up gravity the weakest force pull every thing back into a final point then the bigbang happens all over again!!!!
Bluedash3r 2 years ago
yes, the universe is not eternal. ray and kirk could've pointed this out (if they were even somewhat intelligent) but then the opposition could've easily said "okay, existence itself is eternal; it was never created," and the ending would've been the same.
tickitytak 2 years ago
where did the energy come from then? there's the answer... god is energy
NacheMan 2 years ago
pantheism means God is not a deity; therefore, you are an atheist.
tickitytak 2 years ago
kirk dumbstruck rofl ;- )
dogusah 2 years ago 2
These two morons are basically preaching and talking about personal experiences as opposed to actually putting forward arguments. I´m sure most decently intelligent Christians are ashamed of Kirk and Ray.
rokkvi1 2 years ago
The debate moderator seems to be on the attack. He can't seem to get the simple point across that other cultures have other gods. The idiots just don't get it.
GuerrillaAtheism 2 years ago
i know its pathetic XD
Aprilshowersss 2 years ago
fucking OWNED.
fly180 2 years ago 2
The atheist brings up the third law of thermodynamics when the second law of thermodynamics states that the universe is not eternal.
cooldaniel6 2 years ago
Those religious nuts got absolutely owned at the end. Haha, i've never seen such pathetic looks on a persons face before.
CrazyToastie 2 years ago
I like that girl and guy...I'd have a beer with em
stephen2152002 2 years ago
humans have 46 chromosomes, other mammals have 48...we only use 10% of our brains, 10X weaker than primates. We were genetically engineered. So yes, in a way you could say we have a creator/God. But, not the pagan myth/pledgerized God, we worship. Seriously, christianity is a minority compared to other religions. Why would ours be right? You are stubborn if u think we r the only intelligent beings in the universe...animals don't have souls? But we do? Please, that is donkey stuff.
stephen2152002 2 years ago
he doesnt reveal shit if you have an experience with god you are halucinating, simple as that.
canuckman87 2 years ago 3
At 4:42 is the best explanation. He reveals himself to you. I was a pagan, and he showed me that worshipping toher GOds was wrong, I didnt know where to look in the Bible, but he led me to it before I even knew that pagansim was in the bible. God does reveal himself, but unless you believe in Him you will never see it. Thats just logic. You know when someone has had that saved experience you cant get them to turn away, like me, I now know God, and will know Him more and more.I refuse to deny Him
mrskittkitt 2 years ago
This post is so flawed.
You say he won't reveal himself until you believe in him. But you were pagan, he wouldn't have revealed himself to you in any way for any reason.
Plus the fact that you believed in any type of god in the first place is, well, stupid. You haven't changed, your idols have.
cube11235 2 years ago
After watching the videos on your page, I see what you were actually trying to say. I read your post as you were a pagan and out of the blue some sort of divine inspiration showed you the way.
I would still contend that going from beliefs in witchcraft and paganism to monotheism isn't a rejection of making idols.
cube11235 2 years ago
Nice, very humble comment, I am glad I actually checked back to this page. I dont want to argue about idols, greed is idolatry too. I learned that from the bible. But its a major thing rejecting idolatry as a Christian, so I think that we have different understandings of idolatry here. In my experience I have to avoid idolatry, and you imply my belief in God is still idolatry. I just dont agree, and I dont want to get into a tissy. But peace to you in Jesus name.
mrskittkitt 2 years ago
My perspective stems from the idea that people are not always honest and that scripture is not holy. The idea of God and his persona is nothing more than the writer's view of God; he creates an idol through scripture and philosophy. Those who subscribe to the text of a religion are also adopting that idol.
Compare that to what Kirk said about what constitutes idolatry.
Going from polytheism to monotheism just means a change of idols then (fewer of course).
cube11235 2 years ago
Well I see your argument here based on what was said in this video describing a type of idolatry. I just have a different view of scripture than you.. But its after 2am in California so it is way past bed time. Good night, peace again... My redeemer lives!
mrskittkitt 2 years ago 2
Love how at 8:52 Kirk & Ray display a stuumped look of, "Oh Crap!" It is a pity how delusional they are.
twoonbiscayne 2 years ago 2
We don't accept that space has no end -.-
in fact we believe it is expanding. As for what is at it edge or what its edge is "made of" there really is no way to even make a guess at that. And we DO believe space had a beginning.
KevinLounsberry 2 years ago
Eight minutes into this video, the atheist says that the universe has always existed and that it is a scientific fact. This is 100% wrong. Science says the universe was created in the Big Bang. The universe had a precise moment of creation. In this moment, time and space were created. Science cannot be used to provide a cause for creation. We can't conduct experiments outside of space and time. Relativity doesnt apply outside space & time. Science can't explain it, but God can.
tanon77 2 years ago
You're 100% wrong.
The big bang was a transition of the universe from one state (a singularity) to another (expansion).
No, God doesn't explain it. God is an excuse.
Quit spreading stupid please.
cube11235 2 years ago
Singularity is an assumption, and even if it was a correct assumption, singularity SHOULD be TIMELESS, otherwise you have a contradiction. So tanon77 is still correct, the universe did have a cause. Some jump to the conclusion that it's god, others say we don't know. The fact is we don't know anything that happened before 10^-43 seconds after the big bang.
AlanYugi9689 2 years ago
You are still saying the universe is eternal. That is exactly what I stated and exactly what the RRS was saying. How does agreeing with what I said make Tanon correct?
Philosophy aside, yes, we don't know anything about the universe that fraction of a second after the big bang.
cube11235 2 years ago
The big bang started the universe, singularity isn't the cause. Singularity just existed, what its cause is, if any, we don't know..
AlanYugi9689 2 years ago
Where did I state the singularity was the cause? I explicitly stated the singularity and the expanding universe are the exact same thing, just different in appearance.
Yes, we don't know the cause for the big bang and for the current argument we don't need to know. From what the RRS said, the conservation laws supports an eternal universe.
cube11235 2 years ago
8:21
At this point in time it is like the creationists have turned into David Brent and Gareth from the Office.
Wow speechless creationists, I have seen it all now.
Mina0008 2 years ago
I think Kirk and Ray should have focused on the fact that there is no proof of evolution or the big bang, or anything science has claimed that mankind wasn't there to witness for that matter. Instead it seemed like they were just there as evangelists rather than debaters.
Brian brought up the point about snakes with legs, which is false. And there is no scientific proof that they ever were legs. Not a single snake fossil with fully formed legs has ever been found.
joker102877 2 years ago
how ironic, a creationist is gonna talk about facts
there are tons of fossils with proof that these dinosaurs have existed millions of years ago.
yet you creationists believe earth is only 6000 years old. so your believe is implying that the millions of scientists around the world who say dinosaurs have been extinct for 65 millions years are wrong? and that dinosaurs co existed with man like in the Flintstones?
and of course you believe in 900 year old men living in big fish and resurrection
brysonisSXE 2 years ago
Does anyone know if the remaining part of the debate exists on youtube? I would love to see the question and answer part.
Jonnarra 2 years ago
Why do Ray and Kurt insist on giving scientific proof that god exists? They can't accept the fact that religion and science are two separate categories. They insist on proving their religion to everyone, instead of just accepting that religion and science cannot be reconciled. Like when they try to teach creation. Creation should be discussed in school but not in a science class. All the creation myths of the world could be taught in a social studies class. And insanewombat is right about 8:23
kevin19713 2 years ago
well the reason why they use scientific proof is that is that the bible itself makes many claims that can be tested scientifically.. it is true that science cant disprove the existence of god.. but that also means that they cant disprove the existence of a pink unicorn, creator of the universe..
JoseEatsAirplane 2 years ago 3
Cool, I was starting to doubt the existence of the flying spaghetti monster but now my faith has been restored.
kevin19713 2 years ago
sure science can't disprove god, but science is much more logical than the talking snake, 900 year old man, dinosaurs co existing with man, and ressurection.
but if you were raised secular and not associated with a specific religion, you'd NEVER believe in these myths. you believe because you were raised that way.
logic alone disproves many of what is said in the bible,and morally why would anyone wanna associated with a religion who sends homosexuals and jews to hell for being different?
brysonisSXE 2 years ago
One of the very few intelligent claims I've heard.
AlanYugi9689 2 years ago
Debates such as these should include in the live audience, people who had experienced 'scientific' clinical physical death, and to hear there reactions to the statements being made.. After all, they experienced albeit briefly, what we all will encounter after our existence. I think also lie detector equipment, scientifically and statistically proven to be accurate most of the time, should be in place to garner some sense of the veracity of the statements THEY make.
dfl5015 2 years ago
Why did god create billions and billions of stars and other worlds? That must have taken a lot of time!
canuckman87 2 years ago
oh but he's god he can do anything! -_- pft people who think like this are living in some sort of fairy tale.
JoseEatsAirplane 2 years ago
How god of the gaps indeed, "god did it" to whatever you don't understand.
And if that is all creationists have to offer..
masticina 2 years ago
8:23 RRRRRRRRR FAIL
InsaneWombat 2 years ago 2
If I believed in God before I watched this debate. That lame ass "eternal dimension/timed dimension" answer just sold me to the other side. They're really hurting themselves more than the RRS are every time they open their mouths.
InsaneWombat 2 years ago 2
I'm christian, and I agree Ray and Kirk are hurting themselves. First they say they'll present you scientific proof, and so they somewhat do, and then slowly go to faith and the bible. This argument disappointed me.
AlanYugi9689 2 years ago 6
The only thing creationism has to back it up IS faith and the bible. Hence it is not even close to being logical or scientific.
Of course there are always those who think that with their "logic" they can push the issue. Against well educated minds that doesn't works.
Hence why they try to teach creationism before the minds are able to process logic that well. In schools!
masticina 2 years ago
All this talk Heaven and Hell, whatever happened to Limbo ?
whyshouldI303 2 years ago 2
I think the last minute was proof that the creationist argument was crushed.
cube11235 2 years ago 5
This debate was won by the atheists because Ray and Kirk kept mentioning faith and the bible. I'm christian, and I would agree Brian and Kelly won this one. Ray and Kirk didn't present the strong arguments of creation.
AlanYugi9689 2 years ago 4
I'm sorry there are NO strong arguments of creation.
cube11235 2 years ago 8
9 minute mark......hush mouth.
elscruffalo 2 years ago
"It (Judeo-Christian idea of "God") is from Israel; its not about culture."
Ray, do you think before you speak?
gmn545 2 years ago
It's interesting what he said about atheism restoring ones health... yet present day studies have proven that those who attend worship services regularly tend to live longer and healthier lives.
mikeyboy86 2 years ago
these studies you refer to about "people who worship tend to live longer" does not prove that worship CAUSES prolonged life.
Dont forget something fundamental in statistics: correlation does not imply causation! just because worship may be correlated with living longer does not mean it is the worshiping that is prolonging someone's life.
beerbelly777 2 years ago 3
Well I like to let the studies speak for themselves.
mikeyboy86 2 years ago
And the only thing those studies will say is that there is an association between the two variables, nothing more.
they definitely WILL NOT say that "worship CAUSES longer life". I can assure you that.
You should really educate yourself on statistics before you bring up dumb arguments. Im laughing at you and so are statisticians.
beerbelly777 2 years ago 3
You really should educate yourself. He never said the studies prove worship causes longer life. He just said what the study was and what the results were. You're the one jumping to conclusions, not him.
AlanYugi9689 2 years ago
It's funny how youre telling me to educate my self when I was the one giving a justified correction to Mikeyboy's reasoning. Between you, me, and mikeyboy, Im the only educated one here. Im sure your knowledge in math/logic doesnt go past HS algebra. lol. how Ironic that you tell me I should get educated lol
beerbelly777 2 years ago
they got fuckin pwned
boxoflunch93 2 years ago