What Good is the Church?

[smallpotatoes989]

These guys after all stupidity of fondumentalists realy convinced me to go to church again

[cdphatty]

can anyone tell me where this is from? these are like my two favorite people lol

[playbak]

Fr. Thomas is great spiritual person, but as a young adult I have very serious trouble understanding him as it all seems very abstract.

How can I go from thinking about women, fast cars, and video games to truly believing I've found God in me?

I do not understand how to "un-distract" myself

[greenrate]

@playbak

Good question. One way this might happen . . . is if you decide you really want to get good at women, fast cars, or video games.

You'll find . . . that "thinking" will always leave you at a comparatively superficial level of competence with them.

To get good . . you need instead to learn to BE one with them, reacting to them from a deeper, less distraction-prone part of yourself.

Spiritual practice is the ultimate means of learning how to do that.

[JoeJacari]

And Christ said, "Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church. And the gates of hell shall not ultimately prevail over it."

The Church offers the Perpetual Sacrifice and channels of supernatural Grace (Sacraments).

We need the institution because it is the only effective Geo-religious organization capable of counterbalancing the great evils of our time and all times: Nazism, Communism, radical Islam, materialism run amok, abortion, Marxism, the new world order, etc.

[hush2088]

Church/and or religion is possibly the biggest waste of time, energy and cause of wars etc. Having said that, Jesus and God (in the Christian sense) are totally real and powerful beyond our imagination. Most religions guess the answers 'where we came from' 'what's the purpose to life' etc. there is no answer, humans do not have the answer in this life form as we know it. There are lots of 'Holy' and 'nice' people on the planet but there are lots of fakers as well. Personal intuition is the key.

[LooksAeterna]

@Avonaco76 Me too. I have a funny and unique relationshop to Catholicism: I am not formally a member and probably the most apophatic sadhak around when it comes to an analysis of the matter (I even analyze to pieces buddhist analyses !), and yet I enjoy all positive poetry regarding the ultimate as long as it admits to being poetic.

[Avonaco76]

Very reasonable spiritual men...I am not Catholic but I enjoyed the discussion. :)

[LooksAeterna]

@Avonaco76 Having admitted this attitude, rejecting all possession of the truth by verbal codification, a rather famous old priest here STILL gave me my first communion because I had asked for it, feeling a deep desire to be ceremonially connected this way in Christ.

[LooksAeterna]

The Eucharist is the genuine article, after all. Without some contemplative practise, perhaps most people cannot sense that so easily.

[decoymiata]

i cant wait till we get hit by a meteor..TADA! restart life without retarted human life that fucks this world up.hopefully all the so called holly books burn and life begins in the ocean once again.without any retarted men beliefs and imagination that doesnt let none believers live in pease without worrying about wars and suiside bombers deluted by their dumb beliefs.

[SalusNovus]

@decoymiata u make a good point, but listening to these guys talk, they talk about religion in a very open minded way. its nice to hear people who have faith talk and 'discuss' rather than 'argue' about how christianity is like the be-all and end-all of religions (for example) - im an atheist, and i guess im just trying to say discussions like this are a breath of fresh air :)

[skilla23]

WOW! Jesus said"I am the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father but through me.Jesus despises tradition or religon.Read the Gospels and truly learn what Jesus says and commands for all mankind.

[DEBUNKMAN]

lucifer and his sargeant satan preceed God our Father ? many complain without effort understand...why even answer? yes books are re translated ,interpreted..language has changed more than eight times..the bibl is a man written with over 300 predictions/prophecies about Chr if we were all a community of man living by Jesus simple words...well, the planet wld be revo understand that this life is just getting started...we are a speckof dust on a ball of dust and look UP!HEY..THAT IS YOUR POTENTIAL

[ooozuh]

My spouse & i desperately want a child. However, we purposely will not conceive because there is a chance that once grown, our child may feel I would have preferred non-existence. There, I would have remained safe from all harm." Also, any harm would be our fault. If we had not conceived the child the harm would not have occurred. Do many others think this way?

[sshandon]

No, why not let you instincts for life bear fruit , stop worrying and have faith in the love that creates life and the wonders that life can generate . Harm is relative and temporary . love is forever

[louiswheeler]

I loved the quote, "Leadership is not something you get by voting in, it's via experience" as mentioned by Keating's great insight, says it best!

Blurry but distinguishing understatement.

[hungry4english]

the fathers should be open and tolerant of other faiths, seeking to find and acknowledge truths in all faiths, but they should finally encourage everyone to go to confession...people are terrified of the confession box but it is the road to salvation which is why God gave us this beautiful sacrament

[Garthzzz101]

Why does the church say to let go the love for money while at the same time they are always asking and searching for more money??

[louiswheeler]

Good question, but the problem is that people/institutions have to resolve the need for and ability to move beyond service (by folks), exchanging or "gifting" a transmitting of funds to help the very community that assists its services and those who can afford to serve for others...

[GodIsReal101]

How to become a Christian click on:

Godisreal101

[Hillsillverr]

Your missing the point. You can be spiritual without being in a cult.

And did you know that the christian modern day bible has been re-written over 8 times, by prophets, kings, and priests over hundreds of years apart!

[Doctormonsta]

We have found Satanism is the original religion of humanity. We have done our research. Satanism is based upon the ancient religions that predated Judaism and Christianity from hundreds to thousands of years.

[mkrulic517439]

interesting how satan could preceed a god that created him

[Doctormonsta]

interesting you say?-learn then

[quanker]

I hope you are not suggesting that we return to an "original religion" of any kind (if it were even possible to reconstruct). Cannibalism and child sacrifice also predate Judeo-Christian tradition--not necessarily better because they are older. Wouldn't it be better (if at all) to go with a religious context that is more advanced and responsive to the realities of our own time--or at least open-ended and evolving?

[DJpoppa35]

Those are CHurches not religions..

[kedbear79]

ragnar336. It's good to test things for sure. I think the thing that is fascinating about humans is how/why we have transcended the 'fight of the fittest' laws of nature. Why do we love, why do we help others often to the detriment of ourselves? How do we learn about these areas which are not measurable scientifically?

[Diatonic135]

Ragnar, are you trolling YouTube simply because you don't have the courage to stand up to bullies in your real life?

I think you'll find that flaming anonymously doesn't help release your resentment. Do you know of any other methods?

[ragnar336]

im not too sure what bullies your talking about.

i like to talk about this on youtube because not too many people care about this subject where i live. they like to talk abour sports or girls. dont get me wrong thats cool too but i enjoy intellectual debate. i learn off of it

i hope i didnt stop you from feeling like your shit doesnt stink. i dont want to get in the way of that.

[patricmansuperkool]

guys you know theres no "god" right?

[ragnar336]

what ever happened to killing someone who doesnt believe? its your heritage.

[SilenceAddict]

Killing someone who doesn't believe is wrong. Christ wouldn't approve of that.

Not all members of churches are true Christians, sometimes even very senior members.

Pope John Paul II apologized for the past errors of the Catholic church in 2000 and asked for God's forgiveness.

I am a member of today's church which is evolving like any imperfect individual should.

[ragnar336]

im a member of the fact lovers. i love facts because we can test and prove facts. its so beautiful.

[cruelfate45]

Everyone loves facts. You are a member of the belief haters, although your affirmation in facts leads you to believe you have complete knowledge. Therefore you are also a believer, you are just in denial of it because your belief is empty.

[ragnar336]

wow, what a bad guess. i dont think i have complete knowledge that would make me as dumb as your faithful people. i simply only know what has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. theres a difference between having fossil records and DNA to prove evolution and a book that has obviously been written by man and then had to be changed around(second testament). my belief is empty? your belief is that of cavemen so yours is full of..? bullshit. you obviously stupid or choose to not know what we know

[ragnar336]

its people like you that scare me because you ignore(ignorant)things like DNA and fossil records. if god is real then evolution was part of his plan... "oh no sound the horn this is most definitely false because it goes against my christian beliefs" well did you ever think you might be wrong no because then your parents would be wrong and you cant have that. you religious people have an ego problem that youll never be able to figure out, thats why you start to read religious books with big words

[MaBu888]

Ragnar336, the people in the video don't deny the scientific theory of evolution as a creation of satan. They view it as a process of racing towards divinity through increasing complexity, while meditation and contemplative prayer leads to peak-expreienes that inspire to create further logical structures that lead towards a more unified world. Not just christianity, but integral consciousness.

[MaBu888]

I mean, they think the theory of evolution as it applies to biology, is actually proven and right!!!

[ragnar336]

well thats out of the delusional way... now all we need to do is get them to accept the laws of thermodynamics.

[MaBu888]

Their god is immaterial, though.

[ragnar336]

im not talking about their god im talking about their god creating matter from nothing

[MaBu888]

Well, some of their god LOL, not everyone thinks god created everything from nothing.

[ragnar336]

im talking about the people going to heaven though. all o fthe people who dont trust their bible as the truth are goin to hell.

well at least thats the idea behind caveman theory

[MaBu888]

These, yes, but there are different christians out there too, albeit in small numbers, like the one in this video, no pressure to believe anything, besides awareness.

[HumanStrategy]

We are talking about believers of the Bible in this instance, right? So they would believe in a 'void' of sorts (an emptiness, non-existence), no?

[MaBu888]

These given believers of the bible don't believe everything so word-for-word, maybe these given spiritual christians think bible to be more of allegory. But still, it may remain from this, that the Bible is still bulshit, however, the spiritual experience of these given christians reaching the non-dual level. Notice, that non-dual transcends and includes the notion of emptiness and fullness. It is a very confusing issue, actually, for me too.

[SilenceAddict]

Father Thomas Keating is leading us into chaos with his New Age philosophy. And in this video he and his monk friend openly slap their mother the Catholic church in the face by slighting her leaders and imply that they know better than 2000 years of tradition, how arrogant and egotistical. What happened to his vow of obedience ? His complex words are elitist and a dark confusion. Faith should be simple, this is all too complex.

[Diatonic135]

If faith was simple, there would be order.

If new age philosophy was chaos, it would have caused the dark ages, not Christianity.

If 2000 years of tradition was right, the catholic church wouldn't be changing their stance on things so often.

SilenceAddict, you only see darkness because you are in a dark place. Realize this, improve your life by seeking the light, then report your views on this video.

[SilenceAddict]

Hi Diatonic135,

Simple faith gives rise to order inside, the eye of the storm.

The Dark Ages were caused by not following Christ, the church has had some misguided people in it that don't undertand the traditions. The devil can infect anyone.

New Age is chaos cos you cant really define it. Just another consumer product. Just talking, no life changes.

What has the church changed ?

I am not dark, I just have the courage to have a view in this PC age.

Best wishes.

[Diatonic135]

Remember that if faith keeps you in the eye of the hurricane, then you are the hurricane.

The winds of a hurricane are very fast and blinding; looking through them at the world, everything is distorted and looks like the devil.

[SilenceAddict]

I used to be New Ager and it just makes you feel clever and distracts you from reality with its complexity.

There are no rights and wrongs in it, only ignorance to justify being able to do anything you want and to avoid guilt and responsibility.

Ironically it feeds the ego and empties your wallet to pay for expensive courses. Why do New Agers hate Christianity if all religions are the same, which they are clearly not. A New Age friend died of a virus cos of weakening over-fasting.

God bless.

[Diatonic135]

My condolances for your friend.

But realize that being a new-ager made you feel clever and distracted you, but not me. I am not a new ager, I am not seeking prestige.

I have an unwavering sense of virtue and morality, and responsibility. No religion can make a good person, but good people can use religion to better themselves.

People can use Christianity to escape their guilt and responsibility. In the end, everything comes down to personal responsibility, regardless of religion.

[SilenceAddict]

Well, I cant argue with that :-)

I have met all sorts in churches, so I agree.

Take care.

[Diatonic135]

we might be the first two people to agree on youtube.

[SilenceAddict]

That was so funny I nearly chocked on my yoghurt :-)

[IntegralNaked]

Seriously, i think you might actually be the first two people to agree anywhere on this site! And it's while discussing religion, no less! Total win...!

[SilenceAddict]

Maybe we should get some of youtube peace award :-))))

[ragnar336]

emptys your wallet??? your mixing the two up hahaha.

and your the kind of person i want ot believe in god because you just made it obvious that you would steal rape and murder if you werent bribed with heaven and scared with promises of hell

people like you scare the shit out of me

[ragnar336]

new age philosophy didnt create the dark ages... wow. the dark ages came about because of christianities grip on the modern world of the time. they burned so much documents that went against the church and they killed all who oppose them that they could get their hands on

[K1mSetla]

I am thrilled to be able to see Br. David Steindl-Rast "live". I have been listening to his The Grateful Heart for many years and recommend that speech to all.

[psychonautx26s]

A lot of people disdain the Dalai Lama now for his persecution of Dorje Shugden worshippers. His followers now harass and murder helpless civilians, and wanted posters of the wives and children who relocated to escape persecution are being posted.

[Mytuko]

Fantastic and moving the "spiritual presence" of these two men of God that talk so nicely of the four quadrants of spirituallity.

Thanks a lot

Raquel from Madrid

[MaBu888]

Indeed.

[DonkeyofHeaven]

Where do the colors come from? They look pretty arbitrary on the surface.

[rmcullar]

Exactly ; ) That was the point. The colors are from Spiral Dynamics. Expand the description of this video (on the right of your screen).

[DonkeyofHeaven]

I had already expanded the description and saw the colors. My question remains, where do he colors come from? Who is making the arbitrary assignment of the colors? For example why does "blue" get assigned to one perior and orange to another?

[rmcullar]

You hit the nail on the head, it is arbitrary. so that there is no real meaning or stigma attached to the colors. When Spiral Dynamics was conceived they decided to use colors to label the levels because they thought that was more neutral than word labels. However, Ken Wilber has changed them and calls them "Altitude" now and they go more in a "rainbow" or "chakra" order now.

[Satori1800]

thanks for great video:)

[greenalphabet]

Beautiful dialogue! ... the paradox, the challenge of the individual (the subject) who arises out of, or who is because of the collective(the intersubjectivity), and then the same individual suffers the paradox of imposition of generalization(a belief system) by the very collective that gave birth to the individual that now tells them what to experience, what to think, and what is. ...and to then to go through it, ... nice video!

[sunbird77]

Very interesting