i just want moody to bite the bullet and try caviar at 8f against frankel, and beat him. just to show that he could beat him at his pet distance. wouldnt be fair on caviar though, going up 2f just to suit frankel, on his home turf.
if they raced at 7f (inbetween their pet distances) caviar would win, no question. frankel would make the pace, produce very quick and consistent 11sec furlongs, and then caviar would do what she always does, go quicker than any horse in the world currently over the last 3f.
Black caviar would demolish frankel at 5-7 furlongs. black caviars last race she ran her last 3 furlongs at under 32sec. frankels last race he did it in over 35sec. caviar takes less steps than frankel per furlong, exerts less. caviar can hold at 42mph for 4 furlongs. frankel can hold at 39mph for 4 furlongs. simply put, caviar is a 6f specialist, frankel is a 8f specialist.
On looks/size alone, you (the UK) wait until you see Hay List at Ascot. He is a monster! Black Caviar is very sizeable and has a delightfully powerful rump, but Hay List is a giant of a horse who dwarfs all others in the mounting yard. In my opinion, he is the 2nd best sprinter Australia has produced in the past 20 years. Unfortunately for him, his birthday sent him into the path of a once-in-a-lifetime devastation machine.
To those folk trying to compare Frankel and Black Caviar, I have an alternative question: who would win out of Frankel, Black Caviar and the mighty Red Rum? Surely Red Rum would beat them both very easily over 7,200 metres and 30 fences - therefore I think he's the greater of the three.
What's my point? Black Caviar is the best sprinter in the world; Frankel is the best miler in the world. Leave it at that until one of them ventures into the domain of the other. What an incredibly exciting era!
If Frankel was trained to be a 6 furlong horse, he would murder Black Caviar....Just look how far he was clear after 6F in the 2000 guineas (not a egg n spoon race in Australia).....But he is being trained for 10 and 12 furlong races.....Could Black Caviar ever beat Frankel at 10F? Deffinatally NO!.....Could Frankel ever beat Black Caviar at 6F? Most probably YES!
@shaggy39uk I am a huge Frankel fan, he could end up being rated the best horse in the history of Timeform if he can make the transition from a mile to a mile and a half, win the Arc etc. That said, he wouldn't beat her at 6f and under. She is the best sprinter to have ever raced. She is untouchable at what she does.
@shaggy39uk Our middle distance/staying races are 'egg and spoon' haha. Not our sprintings ones though. They are world championship races and she wins them in blistering time with minimal exertion. You will find out how great she is when she goes there this year.
I have seen a lot of horses run in my life, and Frankel could be the greatest if he can get 10 and 12 furlongs. Looking up and down his pedigree, I have no doubt that he is bred to go long. You have a brilliant sprinter vs a horse who sprints out 8 furlongs( while his opponents spit the bit after 3 furlongs chasing him). If they race at 7f Frankel would do all the running and I find it hard to think Nelly would get by him. He has soundly beat the best 7 and 8 furlong horses in Europe.
Regarding the exceptional Black Caviar! Without doubt she is special! If a match race was to materialise (which I doubt), say 7F , I simply cannot see any horse alive passing Frankel ! No way on earth! He had CC in trouble 3F out at Sandown. Nothing can live with him! Not between 7F-8F.
At a mile Frankel will not lose! And next year we will see him facing his biggest test! He has to raise the bar to be ranked the equal of some of the past Greats. However! He is the best horse over a mile in my living memory! The coolmore team will be out to get him next year, particularly over 10-12F
Their Racing Post Trophy winner could be anything ! Will they take him on with him and pacemakers in the Eclipse?
Frankel vs Black Caviar would be fascinating. Both are very intelligent horses and know exactly what they are doing.
However, Frankel is all power and fight, a young bruiser who'd probably be in the newspapers for getting drunk and starting a fight in a nightclub if he was human.
Black Caviar is more mature, pure skill and I have yet to see a clip where the jockey's had to go to the whip. She'd be handing out oscars and doing charity gigs, if she was human :-)
This song is beautiful. Who sings it? I have recently read that Frankel is likely o be running in the Breeders Cup next year. Bobby Frankel had a big connection with Santa Anita and every second person there asks about Frankel. He has got a big fan base there. It would be quite the Fairytale ending .
how to turn a mile classic into a stroll in the park!!sheer class!!worlds best miler without doubt,but the way he left these behind he cud run anywhere from5f to8f&he will get10f next year no probz...
It's been amazing watching Frankel race at a mile this season. But frankly, I can't wait for his 4yr.old season to get here. Just to see if Henry Cecil will finally stretch him out beyond a mile? Even if Frankel's dam side was total sprinter? You'd still have to think with Galileo on his sire side that he'd be able to stay 10f at a minimum? JMO.
@GBeret83 I'm with ya on that GBeret. The way he won the Guineas he has to stay at least 10f. For me, he's such a freak I'd drop him in the Arc this year & I'm sure he'd blow the field away. He's that good. I've got a feeling Sir Henry is being a bit cute with his handling of Frankel - I reckon he has a split 2 year plan to mark Frankel as a legend. Keep him to the mile this year & clean up, then get serious with him next year. I see 10f to start but then a switch to the KG & Arc and glory.
@watchinginawe, I'm pretty sure Frankel will race 1 more time in 2011 in the G1 Q.E.II Stakes at Ascot over a mile. Then Cecil will put him away for the winter. Because he already said awhile back that Frankel won't run in this year's Breeders Cup. I think Cecil will run Frankel in an 8f debut in 2012. A distance he's familiar with. To make sure there's no problems? Then I'd bet the farm the G1 Prince of Wales's Stakes will be his second race of 2012, and his first career start at 10f. TJMO.
@GBeret83 I understand where you're coming from buddy, but I've got a gut feeling that they're going to be much more daring next year than they're letting on. I think Sir Henry wants this horse to live forever in history and to do that he'll attack the big middle distance targets. Can you imagine if Frankel cleans up this year and then took out the King George, Arc and Breeders Cup next year? Even Sven and rocky would have to bow to Frankel then. Like I said though, just a gut feeling.
@watchinginawe, If Cecil had done with this horse what John Oxx did with Sea The Stars in 2009? Like taking him to Epsom after he thrashed the 2000 Guineas field, then continued to win middle distance G1 races throughout the season with an eye ultimately on the Arc? History might already be remembering Frankel as a better horse than Sea The Stars? If Cecil had gone that route? JMO.
@GBeret83 Yep, I was so disappointed he didn't have a crack at the Derby. He would already be a legend if he had stormed that after what he did in the guineas.
@johnnytheprick Hes only won9coz hes only run9!!with all due respect mate frankel is the top rated flat horse in the world&when in full flight,flat out he is a sight to behold,and over8furlongs simply UNTOUCHABLE..he stuffed CANFORD CLIFFS in the sussex stakes&CANFORD CLIFFS had previously beaten GOLDIKOVA,Now thats form...lets be honest BLACK CAVIAR is a superstar sprinter,but if sir henry cecil said tomorrow hed run FRANKEL over7f againstBLACK CAVIAR i would still back FRANKELand win too(;p)
shes only won 16 cos shes only run in 16! sheeeeeeeeeesh. actually, black caviar has won 18 straight (two trial runs).
you sound like your trying to say walter hammond was the best bastman cos he was elegant, masterful and a great hooker even though bradman averaged close enough to 100!
speak to your connections and please bring out frankel. i beg you.
@GBeret83 - Yes but with all due respect to John oxx, and the owner of Sea the Stars....Frankel will race at 4, and could become a bigger star. We were robbed of STS and the fact he never raced at 4.
i just want moody to bite the bullet and try caviar at 8f against frankel, and beat him. just to show that he could beat him at his pet distance. wouldnt be fair on caviar though, going up 2f just to suit frankel, on his home turf.
bazbizzler 4 days ago
if they raced at 7f (inbetween their pet distances) caviar would win, no question. frankel would make the pace, produce very quick and consistent 11sec furlongs, and then caviar would do what she always does, go quicker than any horse in the world currently over the last 3f.
bazbizzler 4 days ago
@shaggy39uk, quite simply, your an idiot.
Black caviar would demolish frankel at 5-7 furlongs. black caviars last race she ran her last 3 furlongs at under 32sec. frankels last race he did it in over 35sec. caviar takes less steps than frankel per furlong, exerts less. caviar can hold at 42mph for 4 furlongs. frankel can hold at 39mph for 4 furlongs. simply put, caviar is a 6f specialist, frankel is a 8f specialist.
bazbizzler 4 days ago
Most of his wins have come against hacks. When he beats as many stars as Black Caviar and in the manner she does then ill get excited
TheDanbyRoad 5 days ago
On looks/size alone, you (the UK) wait until you see Hay List at Ascot. He is a monster! Black Caviar is very sizeable and has a delightfully powerful rump, but Hay List is a giant of a horse who dwarfs all others in the mounting yard. In my opinion, he is the 2nd best sprinter Australia has produced in the past 20 years. Unfortunately for him, his birthday sent him into the path of a once-in-a-lifetime devastation machine.
DeathTaxBlackCaviar 1 month ago
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To those folk trying to compare Frankel and Black Caviar, I have an alternative question: who would win out of Frankel, Black Caviar and the mighty Red Rum? Surely Red Rum would beat them both very easily over 7,200 metres and 30 fences - therefore I think he's the greater of the three.
What's my point? Black Caviar is the best sprinter in the world; Frankel is the best miler in the world. Leave it at that until one of them ventures into the domain of the other. What an incredibly exciting era!
DeathTaxBlackCaviar 1 month ago
If Frankel was trained to be a 6 furlong horse, he would murder Black Caviar....Just look how far he was clear after 6F in the 2000 guineas (not a egg n spoon race in Australia).....But he is being trained for 10 and 12 furlong races.....Could Black Caviar ever beat Frankel at 10F? Deffinatally NO!.....Could Frankel ever beat Black Caviar at 6F? Most probably YES!
shaggy39uk 1 month ago
@shaggy39uk I am a huge Frankel fan, he could end up being rated the best horse in the history of Timeform if he can make the transition from a mile to a mile and a half, win the Arc etc. That said, he wouldn't beat her at 6f and under. She is the best sprinter to have ever raced. She is untouchable at what she does.
schardy80 1 month ago
@shaggy39uk Our middle distance/staying races are 'egg and spoon' haha. Not our sprintings ones though. They are world championship races and she wins them in blistering time with minimal exertion. You will find out how great she is when she goes there this year.
schardy80 1 month ago
@schardy80 Most of England can't wait to see her at Ascot too.....I hope the trip is worthwhile and She kicks ass!
shaggy39uk 1 month ago
I have seen a lot of horses run in my life, and Frankel could be the greatest if he can get 10 and 12 furlongs. Looking up and down his pedigree, I have no doubt that he is bred to go long. You have a brilliant sprinter vs a horse who sprints out 8 furlongs( while his opponents spit the bit after 3 furlongs chasing him). If they race at 7f Frankel would do all the running and I find it hard to think Nelly would get by him. He has soundly beat the best 7 and 8 furlong horses in Europe.
TicinoParadise 1 month ago
Correction!
Had CC in trouble at Goodwood.
shaffi1 2 months ago
Regarding the exceptional Black Caviar! Without doubt she is special! If a match race was to materialise (which I doubt), say 7F , I simply cannot see any horse alive passing Frankel ! No way on earth! He had CC in trouble 3F out at Sandown. Nothing can live with him! Not between 7F-8F.
shaffi1 2 months ago
At a mile Frankel will not lose! And next year we will see him facing his biggest test! He has to raise the bar to be ranked the equal of some of the past Greats. However! He is the best horse over a mile in my living memory! The coolmore team will be out to get him next year, particularly over 10-12F
Their Racing Post Trophy winner could be anything ! Will they take him on with him and pacemakers in the Eclipse?
shaffi1 2 months ago
come to the breeders cup 2012
will find out how good is Frankel
thank you for posting
1723SAMUEL 2 months ago
HE IS GONNA LOSE SOMEDAY!
freakroots 3 months ago
Frankel and FNM! Epic.
Frankel vs Black Caviar would be fascinating. Both are very intelligent horses and know exactly what they are doing.
However, Frankel is all power and fight, a young bruiser who'd probably be in the newspapers for getting drunk and starting a fight in a nightclub if he was human.
Black Caviar is more mature, pure skill and I have yet to see a clip where the jockey's had to go to the whip. She'd be handing out oscars and doing charity gigs, if she was human :-)
Tim733733 3 months ago
Black Caviar WHO???
06frankel 3 months ago
And some people think he'll beat Black Caviar...lol
lakeygeorge 3 months ago
This song is beautiful. Who sings it? I have recently read that Frankel is likely o be running in the Breeders Cup next year. Bobby Frankel had a big connection with Santa Anita and every second person there asks about Frankel. He has got a big fan base there. It would be quite the Fairytale ending .
TheRedRummy 3 months ago
how to turn a mile classic into a stroll in the park!!sheer class!!worlds best miler without doubt,but the way he left these behind he cud run anywhere from5f to8f&he will get10f next year no probz...
HEZZ73 3 months ago
The reason Frankel is so fast is they play this music behind him.
RafaElGaffer 3 months ago
The music is bloody annoying!!!!!!!!!!!! but what a horse.
Joli1234ful 5 months ago
It's been amazing watching Frankel race at a mile this season. But frankly, I can't wait for his 4yr.old season to get here. Just to see if Henry Cecil will finally stretch him out beyond a mile? Even if Frankel's dam side was total sprinter? You'd still have to think with Galileo on his sire side that he'd be able to stay 10f at a minimum? JMO.
GBeret83 5 months ago
@GBeret83 I'm with ya on that GBeret. The way he won the Guineas he has to stay at least 10f. For me, he's such a freak I'd drop him in the Arc this year & I'm sure he'd blow the field away. He's that good. I've got a feeling Sir Henry is being a bit cute with his handling of Frankel - I reckon he has a split 2 year plan to mark Frankel as a legend. Keep him to the mile this year & clean up, then get serious with him next year. I see 10f to start but then a switch to the KG & Arc and glory.
watchinginawe 5 months ago
@watchinginawe, I'm pretty sure Frankel will race 1 more time in 2011 in the G1 Q.E.II Stakes at Ascot over a mile. Then Cecil will put him away for the winter. Because he already said awhile back that Frankel won't run in this year's Breeders Cup. I think Cecil will run Frankel in an 8f debut in 2012. A distance he's familiar with. To make sure there's no problems? Then I'd bet the farm the G1 Prince of Wales's Stakes will be his second race of 2012, and his first career start at 10f. TJMO.
GBeret83 5 months ago
@GBeret83 I understand where you're coming from buddy, but I've got a gut feeling that they're going to be much more daring next year than they're letting on. I think Sir Henry wants this horse to live forever in history and to do that he'll attack the big middle distance targets. Can you imagine if Frankel cleans up this year and then took out the King George, Arc and Breeders Cup next year? Even Sven and rocky would have to bow to Frankel then. Like I said though, just a gut feeling.
watchinginawe 5 months ago
@watchinginawe, If Cecil had done with this horse what John Oxx did with Sea The Stars in 2009? Like taking him to Epsom after he thrashed the 2000 Guineas field, then continued to win middle distance G1 races throughout the season with an eye ultimately on the Arc? History might already be remembering Frankel as a better horse than Sea The Stars? If Cecil had gone that route? JMO.
GBeret83 5 months ago
@GBeret83 Yep, I was so disappointed he didn't have a crack at the Derby. He would already be a legend if he had stormed that after what he did in the guineas.
watchinginawe 5 months ago
@watchinginawe
hes only won 9, black caviar has just won her 16th from 16.
johnnytheprick 3 months ago
@johnnytheprick Hes only won9coz hes only run9!!with all due respect mate frankel is the top rated flat horse in the world&when in full flight,flat out he is a sight to behold,and over8furlongs simply UNTOUCHABLE..he stuffed CANFORD CLIFFS in the sussex stakes&CANFORD CLIFFS had previously beaten GOLDIKOVA,Now thats form...lets be honest BLACK CAVIAR is a superstar sprinter,but if sir henry cecil said tomorrow hed run FRANKEL over7f againstBLACK CAVIAR i would still back FRANKELand win too(;p)
HEZZ73 3 months ago
@HEZZ73
shes only won 16 cos shes only run in 16! sheeeeeeeeeesh. actually, black caviar has won 18 straight (two trial runs).
you sound like your trying to say walter hammond was the best bastman cos he was elegant, masterful and a great hooker even though bradman averaged close enough to 100!
speak to your connections and please bring out frankel. i beg you.
johnnytheprick 3 months ago
@GBeret83 That's why Mr. Cecil is a legendary trainer and you are not.
Nautilus1972 4 months ago
@GBeret83 - Yes but with all due respect to John oxx, and the owner of Sea the Stars....Frankel will race at 4, and could become a bigger star. We were robbed of STS and the fact he never raced at 4.
TicinoParadise 4 months ago