XRU Game Review 8 - Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition

[CondorDM]

They! never had 2nd edition, majority of DMs in our current world still run tsr DND, not even half the number that run TSR games run wotc games. Though wotc does seem to draw more players in.

[MichaelLV99]

Imagination? I know that engine... poor graphics(too much tv) and likely to crash when the phone rings ^^

[americanwarrior32]

I have my own edition. I call it Md6 rules.

Every player has only a die 6. Whatever you want to do you roll a six sided dice. If you roll a 5 or 6 you do it. If you roll 1 thru 4 you fail. Its the simplest rules around. It will be available in stores near you for 49.95. It includes one sheet of rules and a die.

[LiquidFilter]

4th edition sucks, I moved on to Pathfinder.

[IzalorDantin]

4th edition kicks ass

[SamuraiFilmCritic]

I'm an older Gamer, who started in 1989 and I have played AD&D and then 3rd Edit. I feel WOTC allowed 3.5 to become heavy on extra rules, etc in the last 2 years before they introduced 4th Ed, that it gave them what seems to be a valid reason for a drastic change. I have tried 4th Ed. a few times and overall, the gaming flavor of storytelling is much diminished. 4th Ed. feels like an attempt to make a video game into a tabletop game..but it simply doesn't feel like a "Role-Playing" Game.

[Adwrigh]

what a lot of people try to do is imagine an encounter in 3d ed and and then apply 4e rules. i.e. 4 orcs 1 bugbear and an orc boss. that was the kind of encounter that occurred in 3e. in 4e it looks like 7 orcs 2 bugbears 10 orc minions + boss. This means when you run into an orc cave you find ORCS! not just a couple hard to kill guys and a boss in the corner. Yes some of them are designed to be 1st or 2nd round kills, but the battle is fast, bloody and brutal. Thats what i want in an orc cave

[drskeletor1]

I have the 4th Edition, its really good. But thats because thats the only version I own. I just bought version 3.5 off of Amazon. I've played 3.5 and 4. My friend introduced me to 3.5 but I dont think he explained it right for I thought when I played 4e it was better. They did get rid of spells which kind of sucked for magic people, they added 'Powers' but its not all bad. The fight system works so much faster a smoother.

[vikingkeith]

Lame stuff at low levels? You are a roll-player. Don't rely on your stats padwan. Use your brain and turn simple things to your adavntage. It helps if you have a DM who is not a stat jockey. Stop being a stat sissy and use your melon for more then a bad haircut and some lame whiskers!!

[vikingkeith]

4th is good for those who lack in creativity. But that is OK. It sells more and the min/max types who like roll-playing are happy. Religion for the masses?

Since when was a fantasy game suppose to make sense? Save money and get the Pathfinder beta off of Paizo. It simplifies 3.5 and it rocks. I'll stick with AD&D 1, 2, Basic D&D and Old D&D -- Simple to run and I don't need a ton of money to buy this stuff since I still have it.

Yea the good old days when we had to think for ourselves. :)

[MalikXHonor]

Not only does 4e combat run smoothly & quickly at the table, but it allows more freedom to rp because the rules don't get in the way. So those of you who say 4e has been (Dumbed down) we both know it's because you can't affored the new books lol! Thanks wizards.

[itzfawkinsam]

I can afford it, but it really is simple, it's more easier than 3.5 comparable

[KhagarBalugrak]

4th edition is a colossal failure. It's gone the same dumbed-down, unimaginitive, commercial route that has destroyed Final Fantasy, Ogre Battle, and countless wonderful series.

[ravemhoe]

If you consider yourself an imaginative person, which I reckon you do, you should not let some rules stand in the way of your creativity when you play D&D

[hexusziggurat]

there is less and less of a draw to "using your imagination" with each new edition. the game seems to focus less on players being "team members". I've DM'ed for over 25 years now and people playing their "role" in the group is more of a learned state...not an inherited one. 4th is pretty easy-mode for veteran players....and 3rd is broke (hence why 3.5 came out so quickly). Send me a msg if you need to me explain anything in-depth. I've played many systems and seen even more.

[TwJamesTw]

the thing that really bugs me about this video is that as long as you just adapted your own style to most of the rules, the game runs exactly the same in 3rd down as they're stating in this video. i have been playing and dming almost 8 years now, and i've never had a problem. from what i've heard, the only reall difference is that they've just made power gaming simpler to do. and thats not attractive to me at all. i'll stick with 3rd and down.

[neverfearchrisishere]

Actually in 4th edition they effectively removed powergaming by ensuring everyone is equally overpowered - makes for a more balance game than 3rd where one play could make an uber uber character. One thing that cannot be counted against 4th is that it is not balanced.

[goodbrainnicebrain]

I think 4e gives us a solid combat system, and I like how interesting encounters can be created with the XP budget and a little experience (kind of feels like games like warhammer or warmachine). That means that as a GM I can concentrate more on the storytelling aspects of the game. And proper roleplaying doen´t really need fancy rules behind it anyway,just imaginative players. So 4e may not have the most intricate rules on the market, but it has all that´s needed. The rest is up to the group.

[DaFleegsta]

the internet thing!?!?!?!!!!! i was working on a project like that to say how it would work omfg i wuz right

[Ginteria]

I'm also really forward to looking at that.

[araciel82]

You never HAVE to buy shit... but oh well. Each Edition has had about the same amount of time in between... but people forget this every time.

[kellystone84]

My funniest moments in D&D

#1 my high level cleric cast a commune spell and he had 8 questions to ask his god. After asking 7 questions i ran out of ideas to ask so i asked GOT MILK?>

#2 my fighter opened a trap door and a wight began to scurry up a ladder towards him that led down to the darkness below. The mage in the group pushed my fighter aside and vaporized the oncoming wight. My fighter then turned to the mage and said That was mighty wight of you!

[dasharzan]

what I really enjoy like Tarboy62 said is realism Also... I hate geeky let's save the queen cause I have a sword style of play. And As I keep On saying admiralbothos If You don't like the rules or the way rules are Applied ...just change'em. 2x the amount of healing with the Lay on hands or a a D4 to a smite evil attack if you Find that it makes the gaming session a lot better... And seriously...they took out the Half orc to fit a useless copy/paste of the elf...Eladrins WTF!

[tarboy62]

by the way if you like the 4th more then the 3.5 play on dude!!! DND is all about having fun

[dasharzan]

Do You mean you let your players outrun you if Your the Dungeon master? Your supposed to NATURALLY be able to Flip yourself Around Without the Scrawny Crappy Combat battlegrous. And I'm not Saying your Opinion sucks it's just a Simple Conversation with someone who seems to know what he's Talking about! But seriously...

[admiralbothos]

Thanks for the complement... if it is one... it think. But the question was answered in the other area, and i seem to be picking alot of fights here, might be over my CR....(hahahahahahahahahaha) bad joke, all I ask is that every try a gaming session, and see how you like it, I wasn't sure how it was going to work till i actually started playing

[dasharzan]

Did you really think That the Dwarve woman had beard? What if she did? Would That Change your world Or Would YOU decide that In YOUR dungeons and dragons game the dwarven females didn'T have beard? And I prefered by Far the Hardcore badass Look of the old dwarves compared to the ''noble warriors'' That They Made em out of Right Now in the 4th edition. And What do You Mean By in a Crunch? battlegroups!

[admiralbothos]

Yeah the dwarf this was a bit stupid but... oh well, as for the crunch I mean (story time) my group has a rotating DM and campaign that happens, every month or two we switch off, and none of us could make it on the next session and every was exited for the new edition get the players hand book and all, so I had thought to have had another 2 weeks to prepare, so I went to the monster manual and looked at some kobold... which do fit into the story and went from there

[dasharzan]

The 4th edition gets Me all worked up because it gives New Possibilities But Admiralbothos don't go saying that it's Great and Flawless seriously it's just because you don't know it completly yet and havN't experienced every Face of the editon just like you probably did with the 3.5 one!

[admiralbothos]

First of all I never said that is was flawless or great, it has it problems but it also excels, and some things were a bit broken in 3.5e, all i am tired of is people who have never sat down and played a full gaming session, yell about how horrible 4e is, i urge everyone just to try it once, then complain about what you thought was wrong. Thats all,

[dasharzan]

Sorry dude...But im not convinced... YOU make the Game Fun...grab a beer,decide what you do...your the one who makes up the game...the rulebooks are only a basic,a first step...if you don't like the rules Dump'em Piss on'em and everything is done! You play for your own self with whatever means you can get...some people dont't Understand that sorry...But still good review ;)

[admiralbothos]

sir you are wrong and i completely disagree with you.

first of all focus if not all into combat there is a heavy amounts of skills rather than having the all powerful caster do all the work, caster are the still incredibly powerful, and rather than having fighters be the best at lower levels and caster the best at high levels, they all need to work together, having fighters defend the group while the wizard focuses on the mass control, next, i like the paladins being fixed they were poop in 3rd

[tarboy62]

4th sucks the skills are a lot less in 4th then in 3.5 and paladins had no problems in 3.5 i GMed pals. and played them too with no problems to speak of i realy do not like them telling what my characters role i dont play fighters and wizards i play characters that can do things, it is all about the combat

[admiralbothos]

First not that 3.5 wasnt great, but is was broken, the skills had serious problems, you could jump, but not swim, you could climb, but not sing, you had way to many that were never used because you didn't have skills in them, next the paladins did suck, they were fighters with out the feats and the spells that had no practical use, and D&D is not just supposed to be a hack and slash game it the adventure against insurmountable odds, and having fun, so if you only like hack and slash good for you

[tarboy62]

i have no idea what you are talking about you can jump but not swim YES YOU CAN ! just buy the dam skill. paladins get lots of cool specials almost every level and the spells have come in handy almost every adventure and have saved lifes too 4th is so much more a combat game then 3.5 in a normal 7-9 hour game we only have maybe 2-4 combat encounters the rest is story telling

[admiralbothos]

What the hell are you talking about, why should the edition have a huge roll on the storytelling? Just because the edition changed doesn't mean you have a different story, it is just a new system on which you can make the story telling easier. Don't say you hate the system for that. Next... name three useful skills that the paladin can use very game session? And as let say a fighter, you only have a limited amount of skill and you that lets you jump but not swim, I think that 4th simplifies it

[tarboy62]

i know lots of people that cant swim in real life but they can jump just fine so why should in work any difernt in the game. here are some skills that my paladin uses all the time... diplomacy,handleanimal,heal,se­nce motive,ride,swim...i used all theis skills at least twice on the last 2 adventures and there are a lot more.

[admiralbothos]

This brings me to my point, these characters are not human, or in the real world, they are mighty adventures that work together to fight evil, or good, or whatever, and I am not saying I hate paladins, I was just saying that some of their abilities could have been better, like lay on hands, and 20th level 22 point of healing doesn't help much in my opinion, and the skills are present in 4th edition, 3/6 are the same and the others are condensed.

[tarboy62]

I think it is inportent to have a sence of realism in the game or the suspention of disbelief is ruined. also i dont like condensed skills but thats just my thing. but i never like to play mighty heroes my fav. characters have always been the retired city gard that gos out to seek some adventure or the wizard hunting for his lost sister or maybe forgotten tome the last char. i played was a bard that whanted to taste the worlds best wines and ales and he and the group always had fun

[admiralbothos]

I know what you mean, not all characters do great things( hence the whatever), one thing that annoys me is that there is not longer a bard, a druid, or a barbarian, or a monk, as a base class, but I am sure that wizards will come out with a source book for it soon. All I ask is you try a game some time.

[dasharzan]

Ur damn Right and Just to add on top of what you Said there Were blank Spots beneath the Skills list to witch you could add Different skills.

[nutherefurlong]

Not really a review, then.  More a preview :P

[TheJer]

Well i have a copy of the books on my laptop and i have to say its different but in now way is it better than the previous editions. The game designers say it is all about character customization but its really not its more your this and this is your job deal with it. There is really no multi-classing its feat based which yet again losses its customization skill. Im a little upset at them alienating everything i knew to be common place in DnD.

[nutherefurlong]

How deep do they go into rituals? I tended to like the non-combat spells better, so I was wondering if they use rituals to emphasize combat spells, or if rituals stand on their own as something interesting.

[admiralbothos]

I know what you mean TheJer, but every edition was different from the other ones, each had there great strengths and also great weaknesses. But there were some broken things about 3.5, customization is still there but is in a different skin, if anyone has any thing to add please do so, i would really enjoy a good conversation, but don't be an ass saying 3.5 is so much better that 4th, then give no reasons, tell what you think

[TheJer]

The more I play the system the more I see that its based for, in my opinion, a newer DnD audience than the ones which started with pen and paper. The game is very similar at least in the character progression and the "job" assignment on each class to that of an MMORPG like WoW or FFXI which steals the same character building freedom away from people wanting to make for exsample a poison using, dagger wielding, rogue as opposed to the sneaking, lock-picking, pick-pocketing one.

[mulg1]

you dont really believe their hollow promises, do you? they just want your cash.

little prep time? that cant work DMing is hard work.

team roles?

power sources? lame.

excitement at every level...ya right

digital...this isnt for real is it,

arent we on the internet enough?

ps. new artwork looks like crap as usual

nothing beats first edition

[bce5150]

They're going to have downloadable content - this is friggin D&D!!

[dasharzan]

The artworkd Fucking sucks SeriouslY!

[admiralbothos]

The art work is one hundred times better than 3.5 edition, it is a real fantasy are. The 1.5 paged art at the beginning of each chapter is nothing less that amazing. And Mulg, little prep time what, just means less, with the monsters given battle groups and the XP budget is great, it makes everything so much easier. There is excitement at every level, new abilities and more skills and power.

[dasharzan]

I Hope on god's words that you don't use the monster battlegroups saying it's little prep Time! Seriously Yes It can be Simplifying but Really The Fun Of A DM(Dungeon master) Is to create His own Custom encounters based on the different happenings of the game! My saying is that if every battle in dungeons and dragons should be Made awesome they've got to have a link to the story. This is why the encounter groups just ...well basically don't make sense! The artwork is Ugly justlook at the dwarves

[admiralbothos]

What sorry but i totally disagree with that second part, the dwarves finally got a much needed change to what they looked like, and the clarification of the females not having beard was wonderful. As for the second part I do agree with you, the battle groups don't always work, but in a hurry, some of them do work, such as hobgoblins, or mind flayer and their thralls, and as a DM, it is useful to have an idea of what CR's and in a crunch I have a small encounter.

Thanks :)

[tarboy62]

the combat battle groups are good for the for first time GM but if you have be GM for more then 3 months and you use then you should hang up your GMing hat!!!!

[admiralbothos]

Well fist of all this is my first time DM/GMing, but I have played for quite along time, and please give some examples why they are crap all i am hearing is that "they are bad",, I do like the art as stated above, well, not sure what else to say, not much here... by the way I have never hated dungeons and dragons in any of its editions, i don't necessarily like 4e over 3.5e, i just saw many people hating on 4e with no one to take 4e point of view, btw it does suck to by new books. :(

[tarboy62]

It would be nice if you could get a rebate on the new books by trading in the old...i ghess thats ebay is for

[tarboy62]

the art is a lot better in 4.crapy

[NVLUTZ007]

(Sorry I ran out of space)

Anyways If you plan on doing a review of fourth edition later try and focus on major changes/improvements. You did a good job informing on the level cap increase and interest in leveling up.

However major facts like Gnomes being replaced by Teiflings and other what-nots would be awesome to know. Anyways keep up the good work, I like the quality of your presentation.

[NVLUTZ007]

Not to burst your bubble, since I really appreciate your reviews and I share some of your sentiments, however there was some inaccuracies in your report:

1. You said that that D&D monster manuals don't explain strategies that the monsters would use and that they just give you the abilities and skills. This is not true all the manuals I've seen give descriptions of how the monster behaves both in and out of combat.

2. You made a similar claim on the PC classes, and once again they do give info.