Frank Zappa - Documentary (part 5 of 6)

[shepardmccallum]

Frank was known to respect the Grateful Dead a great deal. He felt that they were one of the few acts of the era that actually served the music and weren't just slaves to a 'market'. They were also not concerned with the Hit Parade, their label, or even their fans. They only cared for making music- toured relentlessly for almost 30 years, and it wasn't cause they needed the money. If they're not to your taste, you're not alone, lots of people hate the Dead. Frank Zappa just wasn't one of them.

[ranXerox09]

2:06 Aerobics in Bondage!!!!!

[RadioheadaphexZappa]

PART 6 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

[DustyDogger]

Nice studio footage with the classic Synclavier keyboard.

[kidlets2]

Mo's Art

[HytekFred]

Great stuff from the best guitarist after Jimi died, and one of the best contemporary composers. Lucky enough to see him 5 times. Frank will live on for a long long time. Q: where are parts 1 & 6?

[sallyjones22]

where is part 6?

[earstroke]

what is the song at 2:05?

[sallyjones22]

aerobics in bondage? from zappa meets the mothers of prevention

[itillbeme]

Sounds like a good dad. After 40 its not about you any more.

[pylgrym]

Whydinya-whydinya-whydinya whydinya CALLL ME?!?

Whydinya-whydinya-whydinya know I was Lo0nely?!?

Too lAte, Frank! TOO LATE!!

[bezale]

super-christian shows his compassion once more. Your mind is not yours & i reckon i could take it from you with but a few empty words.

[Shackamaxon]

"Any song which is not in 4/4 is a radical idea." How true that is. 99.9% of all the bands you hear on commercial radio cant count past 4. Depressing. For those of us who know better there's Frank.

[careypeak23]

I think his musicians infiltrated commercial music as he instructed them to do, and the result is he did have an effect on good shit making it to mainstream that was 4/4. New wave and metal got dangerous because of him. We need a shot in the ass of pop music again!! Peace!!

[taylor410ce]

the grateful dead went past 4 alot.

[Shackamaxon]

Right, of course! The Dead is another example of a band that was ahead of their time.

But the sad thing is that new artists as talented as the Dead and Zappa are in short supply on commercial radio today.

[taylor410ce]

like who?

[Shackamaxon]

Exactly. I gave up on commercial radio long time ago. I wanna hear music from the heart not from some research chart.

[taylor410ce]

do you like Phish?

[Shackamaxon]

They're good. I've got 2 of their CDs. I'd like them better if they were less commercial.

[THEMJZ]

do you think the grateful dead and zappa were played a lot on commercial radio in those days?

[Shackamaxon]

Zappa never really enjoyed the "commercial" success that other bands did. This annoyed him. Check out We're Only In It For The Money, Zappa's answer to Sergeant Pepper. The Dead were played more than Zappa. But then other bands were played more than the Dead. It's all relative. Keep in mind that much of Zappa's material was either too controversial or inflammatory to make it past the censors. A song like Ti tties & Beer won't get much airplay. Neither will Catholic Girls.

[THEMJZ]

Or Jewish Princess for that matter.

Which is my point exactly ;) Zappa and the Dead and a lot more bands that we consider extremely important and influential now, didn't get much airplay on commercial radio in their days. Back then they played the very same crap they play on the radio today... within 30 years from now we will remember the bands that truly mattered and all the shitty things they play on commercial radio will be forgotten, it's always been like that and always will be.

[thegirl44]

On the other side of the coin a lot of the bands that we consider to be important and influential today were considered flashes in the pan in their commercial success days simply because they DID get radio airplay lol. Shack said it well when he said, "It's all relative."

[jamesharvey]

No-one really considers Frank Zappa or The Grateful Dead particularly important, do they?

[Farksisten]

Zappa has never been important for the commercial industry, but as a composer/musician I think other musicians respect him a whole lot.

Most people know who Frank is, but haven't heard his music.

[jamesharvey]

Frank's an odd figure. I respect him, too, but I don't think I've ever really laughed at his 'funny' lyrics like I would at a Tom Lehrer song, or been moved by his compositions like I might be by listening to, I dunno, Phillip Glass or Strauss or someone.

I suppose I'll always respect him for being the man who gave Captain Beefheart a recording career, and stuff like that.

[jancivil]

Great example of musical philisitinism.

[sidhrtha]

philawhatthefuck?

[dsilver010010]

not to be an asshole but i heard catholic girls on the radio the other day, then again it was public radio

[Shackamaxon]

What Frank is referring to here can be understood if you listen to Toads of the Short Forest: "At this very moment on stage we have drummer A playing in 7/8, drummer B playing in 3/4, the bass playing in 3/4, the organ playing in 5/8, the tambourine playing in 3/4, and the alto sax blowing his nose" Priceless.

[digitalshark]

Shame on anyone who can include the Grateful Dead, the kings of aimless noodling, in any conversation about Frank Zappa. This is not even apples and oranges. This apples and orangutans.

[stevejols]

True man. The Dead almost sound like they are making music.

[jfleminator]

@digitalshark why pick on the grateful dead? the dead weren't any more aimless than some of Frank Zappa's more "atonal" jams.

[Firefret30003]

great, now zappa's kickin' himself in heaven coz everyones eating Mozart's balls, LOL, joke

[emtube]

I used to listen to Frank Zappa all the time, I think he's great. I was interested in classical music and avant garde, and Zappa was my way into Rock (along with Sgt Peppers). Thanks to him, Beefheart could release Trout Mask Replica, my favorite album of all.

But...Frank, why did you have to destroy Ruben and the Jets by redoing the accompaniment? Unforgiveable! I would dearly love to hear the original version again!

[gergsar]

the Ruben masters were severly damaged, that is why Frank had to that in order to put them onto CD format.

Not his fault.

[emtube]

Thanks for the info. Rumors were that he wanted to efface as many traces of the old Mothers as possible...

Nonetheless, I would like to even have a rip from an original LP of this great album. The chorus & bass line were so archetypically doo-wop--absolutely perfect! The newer version sounds too electronically manipulated... Anyway, thanks for clearing this up!

[emtube]

Following up on the Ruben "makeover", I wonder if you know anything about the "we're only in it for the money" release. It also came out in a completely redone version like Ruben, but then a few years after that, the original version finally became available again... I still keep a glimmer of hope for Ruben...

[emtube]

Another follow up: this, on Wikipedia:

"In 1984, Zappa, unhappy with the sound quality of Cruising with Ruben & the Jets, enlisted Arthur Barrow and Chad Wackerman to re-record the original bass and drum parts (although they were not credited) for the Old Masters Box One re-issue of the album. The album has not been officially rereleased on CD with the original bass and drum parts, although bootlegs have surfaced."

[brusecco]

thx for posting this! i actually was dumb enough to accidentally erase my copy of the documentary.

[MrGreenGenes]

Imgaine what Zappa would be doing on a MACBOOK today....

[harriter88]

I know That Synclavier is a Dinosaur,although a fairly cool one.Hell you can get a Tascam 24 track recorder-mixer for under 700 smackers.That Sync was about 10 k with all the extras.

[crowe]

it's a shame zappa had nothing interesting to say about mozart's music

[itubeyoutubewetube]

i think what he said was very intereting... he said mozart is on a chocolate, doesn't this mean anything to you?

[UrbanGraffito]

Is there anything interesting to say about mozart's music? except that like other classical workhorses, his music has been played to death?

[Firefret30003]

why would he have to?

[harriter88]

You are right there is a reason his distant Composer relative is not on candy wrappers(no matter how innovative he might have been).He didn't write Don Gioviani,The Magic flute,or symph # 40 & 41.Ilove Frank,but his take on WAM is absurd.

[crowe]

I entirely agree!

[jancivil]

so, make a real argument for those pieces. Are they better? Why? Must we accept that, since they've been canonized by the ruling class it fellates, we gotta regurgitate this idea Mozart on some elevated level, = High Art accordingly? they might be, who knows. WAM never sounded that great to me either.

And I have the education to analyze it.

you don't get your picture on candy wrappers having had no hits. seems simple enough.

[emilshere]

mozart WAS on an elevated level however, so I must disagree with frank on his statements about mozart - he makes it sound like mozart was just another composer of the day. I dare say he was a bit more exceptional than that.

[ButzisAroma]

When asked what he thought of modern pop music (1980) Frank said that in any given genre of music there are good examples and bad examples. I think that he's essentially saying the same thing here. He also has said that classical music is formula music, just like modern pop music, and he's right. So in a round-about way he's actually paying old Wolfgang a compliment for being the 'King of Pop' of his era. Frank had a contempt for the pop formula though - in any era, and so not a fan of Mozart.

[tbone76a]

Mozart is better because his music expresses the spirit of the times with truth and beauty. A lot of Zappa's music sounds chaotic and is jazz influenced. Yuck. Mozart's music is organized and speaks in themes which inspire, not depress. Also, Mozart embodies some of the best music of the "classical" style. His music is woven into the past and directs the future. Zappa might speak for our times, but that's because we live in a dysfunctional period. He's extremely cynical and so is his music.

[jancivil]

Mozart is better to you because it has the weight of history and authority making the argumnent for you in advance. Per "the times of Mozart... his music expresses that spirit" you are convinced that you have live there and remember it vividly? Bullshit.

The classical style is largely insipid and paltry. Dinner music for the noblemen of the time.

Chaotic/jazz-influenced = yuck.

So you'd be happier in Mozart's day? He perished a pauper. Good luck!

[tbone76a]

What? That was no comeback at all so I can't really reply. What Mozart being a pauper has to do with anything is beyond me. Calling the classical style insipid is vapid, delusional, vacant and pretentious. You can obviously appreciate the fact that classical music explores themes deeper than any other music and that's why people still love it and listen to it. You sound like a Marxist Jew in revolutionary Russia? Didn't Marx die a pauper as well? Yeah, good luck!

[jancivil]

but you did reply. I don't accept as obvious "the history book tells me so" that 'classical music' explores themes... that is a literary conceit and to apply it to music is the definition of pretension in my book.

the spirit of the time I live in, is spoken to, be it chaotic or even jazz-oriented, by my contempories.

A frilly Mozart fellating the Prince-Archbishop of Salzburg, which does affect rea-aesthetik does not.

To bring Marx into the argument bespeaks your lack of one.

[jancivil]

"I can't really reply".

Well, you can't manage it well that's for certain.

[mrbrianmccarthy]

@jancivil Dont include Mozart in the "Paltry and insipid"! Mozart wrote light music,but he also wrote very deep and serious music as well.And the fact that many people still love his music in all the genres he wrote over 200 years later is a testament to the depth of his genius. BTW,Mozart was a freemason,which was a very dangerous thing to be in the times he lived in.Frank Zappa(also a genius) was also a very outspoken critic of the Govt. Perhaps they're not so different after all.

[jancivil]

@mrbrianmccarthy Mozart was the most progressive music in that milieu. This happens where someone has an advanced level of talent, in his case seeming like he had past lifetimes experience with it. The problem for me is the elevation of that music and in the context of disrespecting a similiary progressive musician of OUR ACTUAL TIME because the history book says so, because of a lot of baggage I threw out while I was at conservatory.

[mrbrianmccarthy]

@tbone76a We're all priusoners of the times we live in. Frank was a very cynical guy,but he had very good reason to be,given the times HE lived in.And Mozart wanted to do more radical music,but wasnt able to do it and make a living.Frank would've been playing the harpsichord or the violin had he lived in the 18th century,just as Mozart would've played the electric guitar and the synth today.Perhaps they're a lot more similar than you might imagine. ; )

[jancivil]

@mrbrianmccarthy That's correct. But the style he had to adhere to, to function, is IMO not the most substantial music, melodically/formally. There's people of high station enforcing their pretentions on it,which someone who has no historical perspective should look up. Mozart's letters bear out that he was a frustrated artist ahead of his time, playing the game and kissing the asses where he had to Someone who loves some ass-kissing aesthetic may be offended by a time where it isn't so.

[Firefret30003]

I thought they were truffles

[frinkmhey]

Those were candies that Mozard had his picture on, huh? Well, its at least less disturbing than what I thought it was...baseballs.

[lghalihaf]

God will bless your heart doogit!