@jetdriver26 what else are you gonna do against a guy who presents the "crockoduck" as evidence against evolution? Ray and Kirk kinda brought it on themselves. It's one thing to discuss if there's a diety or not, but if someone is going to try to challenge a peer reviewed scientific theory, they better do their research, or they will be riddiculed.
is it just me or does anyone else just feel the hate that is glowing from within the "rational" team?You can also sense the love and compassion coming from kirk and ray.Thats physical evidence right there to me.
@societyofsin If you think that's physical evidence, you need to look up what "physical evidence" is. Holy crap. Since when have we decided facts based on who seems nicer. If a man comes up to you, smiling and cheery, saying he is a walrus and some angry guy is chasing him saying "this crazy guy thinks he's a walrus", who do you believe?
i am from saudi arabia as an expat....i am saddened that people like kelly and brian are being used to discredit the fact that there is a God....in the first place why do they assert that God does not exist.this just show that they do believe that there is a God because they do things and say things against God..i am praying for their enlightenment and their salvation.i hope it's not too late for them to realize and accept their intelligence will produce nothing...God bless them!!
i am from saudi arabia as an expat....i am saddened that people like kelly and brian are being used to discredit the fact that there is a God....in the first place why do they assert that God does not exist.this just show that they do believe that there is a God because they do things and say things against God..i am praying for their enlightenment and their salvation.i hope it's not too late for them to realize and accept their intelligence will produce nothing...God bless them!!!
this chicks voice bugs me, lol....as for who won the arguement, NO 1 DID!!!!....both sides are kind of correct Ray and Kirk are right on the factb that there is a God, the atheists are right that Christianity has invented this hell to scare people....the christian God is was and will be, but as yet Ray and Kirk do not know Him, Christ said if i be lifted up from the earth i will draw ALL MEN unto me(John12;32)...Ray threatened that all liars will have their part in the lake of fire......cont
@david1611kjv ...which is true but he leaves out the plain statements in revelation 21;8 which say that the lake of fire is the 2nd death, their dogma has obviously blinded them to the clear declaration of God in rev21;4"There will be NO MORE DEATH(in any form 1st 2nd or 47th!) or mourning
or crying or pain"...also 1cor15;26 says that the last enemy to be destroyed is death, HELL IS A LIE!! and a blatant mistranslation of Gods word in most bibles today..God will save all!!!...
@david1611kjv so to summarise, Ray thinks that the lake of fire is eternal when it clearly is not, if the lake of fire is the second death, and then God defeats death, then death will be no more in any way shape or form....the greek and hebrew do not speak of the word eternity/eternal they speak of aion(gk) or olam(heb) they mean AGE which is a period of time! not forever..there is no everlasting punishment taught in the scriptures.dozens of bible translations render aion/olam as AGE ABIDING
Idk if I always agree with the way that Kirk and Ray go about evangelism but it does get people to think. I prefer to build relationships with people and show them the love of Christ and let them know what He has done for me, personally.
Idk if I always agree with the way that Kirk and Ray go about evangelism but it does get people to think. I prefer to build relationships with people and show them the love of Christ and let them know what He has done for me, personally.
I agree with what you are saying, if I may just add a bit to it...How would the Lord know who truly loves Him if He MADE us to love Him? Forced love is not True love. I was once an athiest. And I did not choose to follow Christ because I was scared of Hell. I chose to follow Him because of His love for me, which I saw in His Word and saw and felt from others who followed Him.
Blindly following? What about those who are barely thinking and for whatever reason (youth, rebellion, anger at a religious authority) post a rejection of God? That is so serious, not just some whim decision you should make because you found some website! I would say that I don't think that the atheists presented a good view of themselves with their bad attitudes and disrespect but I honestly feel so bad for them. The woman who asked the cancer question seemed so angry.
Kelly and partner, only present a lack of maturity in the debate by rudely interrupting an "projecting" there negative facial expressions. While Ray and Kirk addressed this debate respectfully. I m a Christian that has been saved for 1year, an I've been battling with logic vs faith; however, I do to agree and disagree on information presented here. Both parties used personal judgment and perspectives that showed a lack in preparation for this debate. Please refer to Dr. William Lane Craig.
Well, I think the moderator won the debate, he had the best questions. Comfort and Cameron were smoother, but shilling is their day job. They also did a lot of lying. I don't believe for one second that Cameron was ever an atheist. Kelly has rather a shrill voice. After listening to Comfort, everything he says screams "no god" at me so I'll side with his arguments.
I am not a religious victim, thank u very much. I am not a Christian because I was brought up that way, I was an atheist for awhile but felt that something was missing in my life. I don't wanna know how we all started but believing in a higher power is for me. And no, I'm not a Christian now because I'm affraid of hell. I just wanna live a good life and thank my maker. To each their own!
@JMUDoc me too because the bible says that is what their job is in the first place to preach not to prove the gospel the bible says preaching to those who don't believe is foolishness, but to those who believe it is the power of God.
@JMUDoc But Sanctify the Lord God in your hearts (should be translated, “set apart Christ as Lord in the heart”): and be ready always to give an answer to every man who asks you a reason of the hope that is in you (every Believer must know the Word of God) with meekness and fear (never from a Holier-than-thou stance)We should be able to defend our religion with meekness, in the fear of God. See Matthew Henry comentary for full doctrine of context.
Great Job by Kirk and Ray you blew their argument out of the park. Though debates have never really changed anyone, and for the most part cause confusion. The logic of Kirk and Ray was shinning through the darkness of ignorance.
@TheXman300 Yes sir, I think it is good that he has stood for what is right under extreme persecution even to the point of hurting his career such character in a man is commendable. I am a full time evangelist I mean I have no other job but my ministry, I have been in ministry for over 19 years now. So I definitely agree with what they are saying. livinggodministries.info thank you for commenting to me, it has been a pleasure I wish you all the happiness and peace that comes in Gods blessing.
@southernpreacher Well firstly thanks for the kind reply I don't usually get that many theists saying nice things it's usually the you will "go to hell stuff". Although I disagree with your claim of extreme persecution I must say that evolution is a fact but don't take my word for it go and research from credible sources, you can still be a christian that believes in evolution I have many christian friends that do. Please reply if you have any questions and I wil do my best to answer them. PEACE
The only thing i didn't like, was her attitude. Arrogant, mockering and disrespecful. Even if she dindn't agree, that's her opinion. But she was a arrogant and proud brat. What an attitude... Kirk was a gentleman in his opinion. She is very rebelious. Doesn't listen and she's not open at all.
Woe we are a fallen creation, proud and spiteful. Jesus thank you for dying for humanity, for humbling yourself to the point of death for our tranagression Only You are good God
I am totally with you Kirk and Ray (I hope I got your names right!) I have to be honest, though they are not science experts , so at some parts it was off, but I know where they are getting at. But they were making sense most of the time. You have to submit that there is a God, I really admire the wisdom that the female in the debate projected but I donot desire to be an individual like her.
Anyone notice that they actually never DID give any evidence, just their own personal opinioin, . . . then were unable to counter the argument that they were promoting a terroristic type of agenda, . . . with no good reason?
What a shame that "fear of something seemingly infinitely scary" is supposed to THEN be "loved" somehow, else punishment?
if there is a powerful intelligence, or a "god" that created the universe, it certainly isn't the petty, jealous, genocidal. patriarchal, abrahamic god of the bible, torrah, and quran. it's also not the god of the hindus, buddists, or any other mythologized religion.
it might just be the universe itself. this is what the founding fathers of the united states of america believed. i am an atheist, but i can agree with this definition of god.
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." ...Stephen F Roberts
No kirk , you didn't say Einstein was a christian , but that doesn't excuse the fact that asserting that he believed in god , was a lie. If you had any valid points to back up your claims , you wouldn't have to resort to lying. Pathetic.
I just think that it is funny how no atheist has been able to come into a debate over God with Christians without them simply reverting to slander and attacks. I mean read the comments, listen to what they said in the video (especially Kelly). Kelly had 10% science and 90% hate. Also I do not feel that Ray put up any good rebuttals, but rather he was simply preaching. Kirk on the other hand answered questions more directly. Both sides in this debate were flawed simply because they had people.
Kirk Cameron is such a jerk......okay, he SEEMS like a nice guy, but he's an actor. Meaning he's a good liar. I question if he and guys like him can seriously believe in God after hearing the RRS. Even if Kirk stopped believing in God, he would never admit to it because it would ruin his career.
I think he does care somewhat about people, but he is clearly very confused and that is what really makes him come across as a jerk.
The Way of the Master are such pricks & seeing them owned rocks.
I truly hate the Way of the Master. It's great seeing RRS own these two scumbags. I never can get tired of watching this debate.
What's funny is I use to be a Christian and a WOTM fan. I LOVED those guys! When this debate happened, I was going through a major change and becoming an atheist. I was actually hoping WOTM would own RRS, but it was the over way around and this debate helped me finally settle into becoming a atheist.
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my question is a little shatneresque but "what would god care if a person believes or not wouldnt that just prove god is a egomaniac and capable of jealousy "
Nice how the RR squad mentions how Kirk and Ray didn't have "proof" in their eyes for the existence of God but they didn't have PROOF themselves either for the complete non-existence of any god. If you're going to play the game, play on an even playing field. Redhead really is a complete moron, if she's the best the RR crew has, that's pretty sad
If there's no proof for the existance of something, we don't need to provide proof that it doesn't exist... Now prove me that Vishnu does not exist... BTW, they are actually speaking of the hypotetical existance of the christian god of the genesis.
@gt5323b - I can prove there is no God. Where is he if he is real? Why can't we see or hear him? Why isn't there a picture of him? Why isn't there more then one document that proves he is real other then the bible? The fact that I cannot see or hear this guy and that there is nothing other then bible (which is full of insane stories) tells me he is not real.
"so let's all humble our hearts and pray to posiedon" .......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!! what an ignorant, CHILDISH comment. poseidon. how is that relevant at all. she just had to squeeze that in. it makes her look like a complete idiot. even if i was an atheist i would be embarrassed of her, and the snotty little attitude she brought onto the stage. how unproffessional.
@kylesgonegolfin - She said that because what exactly is the difference between praying to the Christian God and Poseidon? What if I do all that stuff Ray said, but instead I pray to Poseidon? I guarantee I could brain wash myself into thinking Poseidon is real just like Christians brain wash themselves into thinking Christ is real. There is no reason to pick the Christian God over the other god's. Maybe there is a God, but how do you know it's the Christian God and not Poseidon?
This is the worst atheism vs. religion debate I've watched on YouTube. Both sides were rambling, disorganized, emotional, and unconvincing. And the audience was extremely rude and impatient—plus the constant clapping for each point was annoying.
And hovsec,,,and YOU apparently understand evolution. PLease enlighten me. HA,,,, and you can back that up,, that there is no hell. the world is messed up and the bible offers, ,an answere, as all theory's are created by man.
very interesting debate, and of course kirk and ray didnt present scientific evidence, but they werent that bad after all, but obviously they dont understand evolution and many other things and dont understand what is to be an atheist, kirk said he was an atheis but he really sucked at being atheist, i wish they would just step out of temselves and their beliefs and convictions and actually think and question things for once
@hovsec Um they didn't provide any evidence or logic or anything else valid in presenting an argument. They need to take an undergraduate logic course. I will say the red haired girl is kind of obnoxious too though. You can completely destroy their sorry excuse for an argument without being such a bitch.
einstein and gallalio and god, wow now ive heard everything. he should look up the catholic churches persecution of gallalio, or anyone of the letters einstein wrote to the newspapers and colleagues. "i do not believe in a personal god and i have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. Einstein , March 24 1954. there are countless writtings similar to this, look them up boy actor.
Darwin himself said that its "inconceivable to think that something even as complex as the human eye, could be the result of chance."
so the persons ideas who you all chase after, never denied Christ, but had a theory. And it was just that.. A THEORY. People just love to not have to answer to anyone so they of course, made it into a "religion"
Xamire. you need to look up the word Theory in science...Please do it for me and yourself. wikipedia it or something, it turns out to be the complete opposite to that which suggests a mere hypotheis,
just as the general theory of relativity is Just a theory or the heliocentric theory of the motion of planets is just a theory. they are fact, fact based on observed evidence which continually reaffirms itself with new evidence that comes in. look it up.
@xamire You mean: "To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible degree." Of course, quote mining doesn't work if you dig to the proper depth. (cont'd)
@xamire "With these facts, here far too briefly and imperfectly given, which show that there is much graduated diversity in the eyes of living crustaceans, and bearing in mind how small the number of living animals is in proportion to those which have become extinct, (cont'd)
@xamire "I can see no very great difficulty (not more than in the case of many other structures) in believing that natural selection has converted the simple apparatus of an optic nerve merely coated with pigment and invested by transparent membrane, into an optical instrument as perfect as is possessed by any member of the great Articulate class." A mere 2 paragraphs after your quote from "The Origin Of Species".
@bigmanforce you are so very misguided my friend, please read some of his actuall writtings, oh its a shame he didnt believe your book rather than what, the torah the koran... how could one of them be right and all others wrong when theres enough evidence to see that they are all plagarised. go back to sleep. oh you use the word fact, i wasnt sure you people enjoyed such things. facts come from evidence buddy not faiths.....
@lukoshey79 'personal god'?? like you mean god is only available to one person? boy actor, man, i'd love to have achieved what he has. and make a stand.
@DanArmaniBeats personal god. the one that answers prays and gives a poop about your personal life, like who you have sex with and in what position, what you eat, what thoughts you have, etc etc...
@DanArmaniBeats you see, theres the problem, if your god was so wonderful and loving and omnipresent, then you wouldnt need to (as you put it ) SELL him, we would all come to him with praise, love and awe,there would be no such thing as atheists if your god was truelly the god of gods... clearly hes not... sad but true.. so give it up and get on with your life friend. there are many new friends to make on this side, i promise.
@lukoshey79 sure thing man. just wanted to reach out. i got my own crumbs to worry about. but with a God like mine, there's not much worries in it for me, unless i let it. and that's the beauty in believing something. in this case a higher order. peace
Hello. As to your comment. I"m not in this for a debate simply to obtain understanding. You stated " if your god was so wonderful and loving and omnipresent, then you wouldnt need to (as you put it ) SELL him, we would all come to him with praise, love and awe" For that matter is why from what I learned, that God have human "freewill." to choose to believe, or not to believe, "freewill" Good day!
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me; I was found by those who did not seek me. To a nation that did not call on my name, I said, 'Here am I, here am I.' 2 All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations- 3 a people who continually provoke me to my very face
Such people are smoke in my nostrils, a fire that keeps burning all day.
I was ready to be sought by those who did not ask for me; I was ready to be found by those who did not seek me. I said "Here am I, here am I," to a nation that was not called by my name."
2. I spread out my hands all day to a rebellious people, who walk in a way that is not good, following their own devices;
3. A people who provoke me to my face continually, sacrificing in gardens and making Offerings on bricks.
na it wasn't my goal i was just trying to draw a comparison to God's anger at atheists today and his anger at those that denied him then. It's the same concept people who deny the ways of God so they can serve their own desires...
man it's as though the atheist didn't listen to a single thing the others said. I mean there was definitely logic presented on God's side and good points made but the atheists acted like it was non existent like they do with God...smh
Sort of like when the rich man went to hell and pleaded with God to send him back from the grave to tell his brothers that also didn't believe and He said "Even If I were to send you back, they still wouldn't believe because they do not want to believe or seek"
He doesn't hate people. He loves all people. I just find it nothing but peoples PRIDE that keeps them from calling on him.
The sad reality is the atheists can't grasp the point. Choosing to become a Christian is NOT about fear of Hell, it's about accepting Christ's love for us and letting Him be Lord of your life. It's not about fearing hell-that would mean you worship your fear, not God.
Until you become a Chrsitian, you can't really grasp that however.
And warning people of Hell is not fear mongering, it is a loving act. Trying to help people avoid eternal suffering-yeah, terrible.
And that's exactly what Satan wants. And these demons know that's what men want. To either answer to no one, or be a god their selves.
This is nothing new. It's as old as the earth itself.
The thing is, why stops these people from actually calling out to him in private? What will it hurt since they think its a "fairy tale"?
It's because they want to do what they want, and when they want to do it. It's pride. It's self love. Sad that their self love doesn't promote them to seek truth.
Yea. I'm not really afraid of hell. I'm afraid of not being with God, which whom I love, and can feel and understand. He is more of a father, than any real father on earth could be. His love is beyond anyone's comprehension.
the christian "god" is a textbook abusive boyfriend...you have to give him everything and humble yourself and be totally submissive and if you DARE dis-please him he'll show you suffering and agony and pain...Sound familiar, ladies??? Sound like your last piece of shit boyfriend, maybe?
when a person slap on your left face, you turn your right face to him; when a rapist rape your mom,please let your sister to him ; when a killer kill your dad, let him kill your mom and your siblings also....not me, but it mentions in the BIBLE ....
Chritianity isnt a religion, its Gods way, who picked out the opposition in this debate, they failed but good thing is they brought many to accept Jesus!!
if God doesn't exist when we die that's it, nobody is gonna tell the other person I told you so...
now, on the other hand if God does exist when we die, ......we told you so!!!
so... the way I see it, its win -win for Christians
plus the gospel isn't about loving God or you'll burn in hell it's about loving God because He loved you first! we don't love Him so He'll love us, we love God BECAUSE He loved us.
so the god which loves me first so much (heck, where does the bible say that, btw?) will have to torture me for all eternity because I don't love him back? What kind of love is that? And how am I supposed to love something which I don't even know to exist?
And given the thousands and thousands of gods which people believed in during history, how can you expect to meet the the Christian god after you die? What if you meet Odin or Norum-tori, Amon-Ra or Huitzlipochtli and they will let you burn?
not really. christians arent the only people who believe in god. the god of the bible is a jealous god, he wants no other gods placed above him. gods of other religions are similar. so just because theres a god doesnt mean you win, maybe the god that does exist is one from another religion, a religion you didnt believe in. that means youre in the same boat as an atheist if that happens.
Lets drop the God subject and stick with morality. The ego of one's self has trouble of letting go of rationalism and faith and both faith and rationalism suffer with competitive arguements that don't lead anywhere beneficial. Though, we are intelligent beings with a conscience. So therefore we should act as human beings with virtue, not a beings to gratify one's self or points of interests.
Over that past many years there have been many sufferings over this subject.
If the bible is not true, their is no God, no heaven no hell. then when we die, were dead. their is no conscience no spirit. no nothing. so all the good and bad and the beliefs we believe comes to nothing. we will gain nothing and loose nothing. but if the bible is true. Their is a God, a heaven and a Hell. when we die we will meet God. And we who put our faith and hope in something we have never seen. will be saved God will reward us. and those who did not believe. rather they were good....
This is due to the unfortunate fact that neither is learned in the rudiments of formal logic and the fallacies of reasoning which are an area of Logic. Kirk really is a sincerely decent and kind person. However, he will freely confide that he's not college educated and has no understanding of the essentials of Classical reasoning and formal logic. Both of which are essential for engaging in formal debate.
It's funny how someone can't find a way to refute Kirk Cameron, so they have to result in calling him gay. AND PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT CHRISTIANS ARE THE "GAY BASHERS"?
Why is he obviously gay? +1 to Rationalanarchy and kevinneslund's comments on this one.
And to Cheaptrick81, on behalf of the atheist community, homophobia and sexual discrimination are not practiced by most atheists, although I can't speak for everyone.
of course i dont know if he IS gay, im just saying that i hate when the christian homophobes condemn others when they are often gay themselves. like ted haggard and the rest of them.
i worded that incorrectly, i was just trying to express my hatred for fundamentalist hypocrisy. and no, i dont think u can tell if someones is gay by their appearance or demeanor. it was merely an exaggeration, my own sense of humor i guess u could say..
thats the whole point of faith evidence is not Gods thing faith is thats the whole point.stop looking for evidence you'll find it unless you have an open heart
Seeking any god, ghost, alien, or other apparition with your whole heart means youve already assumed these things exist, and convinced yourself of this without question.
You've a non sequitar here. Please explain how one "convinces" themself of an assumption. In other words, stop and think of what you've just stated. If you "assume", for example, that something exists, you can not simply "convince" yourself of it's actual existence without evidence. You've placed this claim on Mr. Comfort. Please examine your assertion. The failure lies somewhere other than Mr. Comfort, unfortunately. Cheers ~
i mean, the argument in its entirety was well thought of by both sides...
it was AMAZINGLY interesting if you ask me...
one side would fire, and the other would retaliate pretty well...
but for the most part, i mean....kirk and ray DID leave out the MOST important factor in Christianity, which is FAITH....and even like that, they retaliated w/ great scientific responses, so yeah...
i don't think they got "destroyed"...if anything, they won
they didn't respond with scientific arguments because they based their 'science' on the bible, which although they believe to be true, any non-christian doesn't
this is because, as you said, they rely on faith for their beliefs.
but this is exactly the point of the debate, to prove that god exists etc with scientific evidence and logic, without the need for blind faith
kirk and ray failed
if someone else's faith is a good argument for religion, then an agnostic could choose ANY religion
Kirk and Ray setup this debate saying that God could be proven SCIENTIFICALLY. The RRS was just there to respond to their claim.
Their entire argument was a logical fallacy. A painter and a painting, creator and creation. They haven't demonstrated that it is a "creation". We know how paintings come about, and we know how buildings are built.
Our best understanding of the world is with science, and god so far has been completely absent.
So I agree, they were absolutely, and utterly, destroyed.
You cant tell a person with no education simply to be intelligent. You cannot just go to to a person in the third world whos starving and tell them hey be intelligent have no faith. Its better if we start by teaching morality, then we give the same good education to every person in the world and then we can tell them guess what god does not exist
I am an atheist, but I support those Christians. Most of Atheists are too egocentric, they just want to show everybody that they are right, but they dont get that there are many people who are not as smart as them and are without a religion would do much worse things than what they do as Christians.
They have to understand that still for many people Faith (even if it is just something psychological) is the only thing that help them to survive to their terrible lives.
You fool, it's because of their RESPECT for human intelligence and love of fellow man that they DON'T just say "well you guys are too stupid to get it anyway, I'll just let you keep believing rubbish". They have hope that humanity ISN'T so stupid as to need faith, and try to help people overcome this need for faith, because it's unhealthy, and in fundamentalism downright dangerous to themselves and others. Religion breeds bigotry, and we as a species need to band together and stamp it out.
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Its so funny... The 'rational response squad' failed so miserable Kelly is now in the adult film industries and has moved to Nevada to become a prostitute under the name kasey grant.
Just because she possibly made a misjudgment later in life doesn't mean the points they made in this debate about how God doesn't exist are not valid. The way of the master didn't provide any evidence and the rational response squad brought up point after point. Also, Ted Haggard, enough said.
it actually is kelly, but you don't have to believe me. The facts are: she is now a whore living in las vegas, take it or leave it. Its all over the internet.
too bad the religious people are MUCH more composed than the atheists. They only degrade their arguements by being emotional & jabby. jackasses.
I wish they would have asked "if god created the universe why does he require you to worship him (not to mention all the massacres and shit in the bible)"
Too bad the religious people failed at their objective to prove gods existence through science, and were stumped by the atheists and the moderater who is a religious man.
someone obviously didn't watch any of the debate. I'll give you a clue, its you.
Einstein did not have a religion, he quoted: "I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. "
"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."
I'm not a christian, and I hate religion etc etc. But to be fair to Einstein, he actually was religious. He was even offered to be the president of the new state/country - Israel, which was developing in the middle east at that time period. And if you watch documentaries about him, they say he was born and raced in a religious family but took distance to it in his younger years, but as he grew up he reconnected with the Jewish religion.
All of Einstein's later quotes are very clear on his position. He very clearly spelled out he did not believe in a personal god, nor was he even a deist.
yet he has no evidence that you won't burn in that hell. take him on faith
PhilC2v14thru16 1 month ago
@OutnumberedByZombies
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Benjamin Franklin
crzyprplmnky 2 months ago
She is hateful, and very disrespectful.
jetdriver26 3 months ago
@jetdriver26 what else are you gonna do against a guy who presents the "crockoduck" as evidence against evolution? Ray and Kirk kinda brought it on themselves. It's one thing to discuss if there's a diety or not, but if someone is going to try to challenge a peer reviewed scientific theory, they better do their research, or they will be riddiculed.
VanessaTexasGal 2 months ago
@jetdriver26 What hate?
3234718 1 month ago
Watch Youtube debates of William Lane Craig.
beggsnat 3 months ago in playlist More videos from wayofthemaster2
is it just me or does anyone else just feel the hate that is glowing from within the "rational" team?You can also sense the love and compassion coming from kirk and ray.Thats physical evidence right there to me.
societyofsin 3 months ago
@societyofsin If you think that's physical evidence, you need to look up what "physical evidence" is. Holy crap. Since when have we decided facts based on who seems nicer. If a man comes up to you, smiling and cheery, saying he is a walrus and some angry guy is chasing him saying "this crazy guy thinks he's a walrus", who do you believe?
crzyprplmnky 2 months ago
@societyofsin Can you tell me about this hate that you feel?
3234718 1 month ago
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i am from saudi arabia as an expat....i am saddened that people like kelly and brian are being used to discredit the fact that there is a God....in the first place why do they assert that God does not exist.this just show that they do believe that there is a God because they do things and say things against God..i am praying for their enlightenment and their salvation.i hope it's not too late for them to realize and accept their intelligence will produce nothing...God bless them!!
TheMrpassword111 4 months ago
i am from saudi arabia as an expat....i am saddened that people like kelly and brian are being used to discredit the fact that there is a God....in the first place why do they assert that God does not exist.this just show that they do believe that there is a God because they do things and say things against God..i am praying for their enlightenment and their salvation.i hope it's not too late for them to realize and accept their intelligence will produce nothing...God bless them!!!
TheMrpassword111 4 months ago
Somewhat valid arguments but Kirk and Ray seemed to have more patience and understanding compared to Brian and kelly's snide remarks
laurasaito 5 months ago 2
@laurasaito Yeah, Brian and Kelly were constantly putting them down. Totally not cool.
Wolfga 4 months ago
@Wolfga Even so, Brian and Kelly had better points.
firedrum71 3 months ago
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laurasaito 5 months ago
this chicks voice bugs me, lol....as for who won the arguement, NO 1 DID!!!!....both sides are kind of correct Ray and Kirk are right on the factb that there is a God, the atheists are right that Christianity has invented this hell to scare people....the christian God is was and will be, but as yet Ray and Kirk do not know Him, Christ said if i be lifted up from the earth i will draw ALL MEN unto me(John12;32)...Ray threatened that all liars will have their part in the lake of fire......cont
david1611kjv 5 months ago
@david1611kjv ...which is true but he leaves out the plain statements in revelation 21;8 which say that the lake of fire is the 2nd death, their dogma has obviously blinded them to the clear declaration of God in rev21;4"There will be NO MORE DEATH(in any form 1st 2nd or 47th!) or mourning
or crying or pain"...also 1cor15;26 says that the last enemy to be destroyed is death, HELL IS A LIE!! and a blatant mistranslation of Gods word in most bibles today..God will save all!!!...
david1611kjv 5 months ago
@david1611kjv so to summarise, Ray thinks that the lake of fire is eternal when it clearly is not, if the lake of fire is the second death, and then God defeats death, then death will be no more in any way shape or form....the greek and hebrew do not speak of the word eternity/eternal they speak of aion(gk) or olam(heb) they mean AGE which is a period of time! not forever..there is no everlasting punishment taught in the scriptures.dozens of bible translations render aion/olam as AGE ABIDING
david1611kjv 5 months ago
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Idk if I always agree with the way that Kirk and Ray go about evangelism but it does get people to think. I prefer to build relationships with people and show them the love of Christ and let them know what He has done for me, personally.
shanming716 6 months ago
Idk if I always agree with the way that Kirk and Ray go about evangelism but it does get people to think. I prefer to build relationships with people and show them the love of Christ and let them know what He has done for me, personally.
shanming716 6 months ago
@infojluna
I agree with what you are saying, if I may just add a bit to it...How would the Lord know who truly loves Him if He MADE us to love Him? Forced love is not True love. I was once an athiest. And I did not choose to follow Christ because I was scared of Hell. I chose to follow Him because of His love for me, which I saw in His Word and saw and felt from others who followed Him.
shanming716 6 months ago
Blindly following? What about those who are barely thinking and for whatever reason (youth, rebellion, anger at a religious authority) post a rejection of God? That is so serious, not just some whim decision you should make because you found some website! I would say that I don't think that the atheists presented a good view of themselves with their bad attitudes and disrespect but I honestly feel so bad for them. The woman who asked the cancer question seemed so angry.
merloutre77 6 months ago
Kelly and partner, only present a lack of maturity in the debate by rudely interrupting an "projecting" there negative facial expressions. While Ray and Kirk addressed this debate respectfully. I m a Christian that has been saved for 1year, an I've been battling with logic vs faith; however, I do to agree and disagree on information presented here. Both parties used personal judgment and perspectives that showed a lack in preparation for this debate. Please refer to Dr. William Lane Craig.
infojluna1 6 months ago
God wins every time .
rodonyou 6 months ago
@rodonyou Which one?
3234718 1 month ago
I would love to be in that crowd and yell out to that red head YOUR VOICE IS HORRIBLE! AND SO ARE THOSE SURGICAL PROCEDURES!!
TonyShredR 7 months ago
Well, I think the moderator won the debate, he had the best questions. Comfort and Cameron were smoother, but shilling is their day job. They also did a lot of lying. I don't believe for one second that Cameron was ever an atheist. Kelly has rather a shrill voice. After listening to Comfort, everything he says screams "no god" at me so I'll side with his arguments.
milesalpha1 7 months ago
I am not a religious victim, thank u very much. I am not a Christian because I was brought up that way, I was an atheist for awhile but felt that something was missing in my life. I don't wanna know how we all started but believing in a higher power is for me. And no, I'm not a Christian now because I'm affraid of hell. I just wanna live a good life and thank my maker. To each their own!
83redrose83 8 months ago
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Colloquium2011 9 months ago
I love how they abandon their attempts to prove that god exists and resort to preaching.
JMUDoc 9 months ago
@JMUDoc me too because the bible says that is what their job is in the first place to preach not to prove the gospel the bible says preaching to those who don't believe is foolishness, but to those who believe it is the power of God.
southernpreacher 9 months ago
@southernpreacher
What about I Peter 3:15? That one seems to require them to give evidence...
JMUDoc 9 months ago
@JMUDoc But Sanctify the Lord God in your hearts (should be translated, “set apart Christ as Lord in the heart”): and be ready always to give an answer to every man who asks you a reason of the hope that is in you (every Believer must know the Word of God) with meekness and fear (never from a Holier-than-thou stance)We should be able to defend our religion with meekness, in the fear of God. See Matthew Henry comentary for full doctrine of context.
southernpreacher 9 months ago
@JMUDoc I was simply agreeing with you. I loved how they did that too.
southernpreacher 9 months ago
Yeah, sit on it and rotate kirk.
blarson12 10 months ago
perfect point on terrorism
mussonman 11 months ago
Great Job by Kirk and Ray you blew their argument out of the park. Though debates have never really changed anyone, and for the most part cause confusion. The logic of Kirk and Ray was shinning through the darkness of ignorance.
southernpreacher 11 months ago
@southernpreacher you'r joking right you don't really support these idiots do you?
TheXman300 9 months ago
@TheXman300 Yes sir, I think it is good that he has stood for what is right under extreme persecution even to the point of hurting his career such character in a man is commendable. I am a full time evangelist I mean I have no other job but my ministry, I have been in ministry for over 19 years now. So I definitely agree with what they are saying. livinggodministries.info thank you for commenting to me, it has been a pleasure I wish you all the happiness and peace that comes in Gods blessing.
southernpreacher 9 months ago
@southernpreacher Well firstly thanks for the kind reply I don't usually get that many theists saying nice things it's usually the you will "go to hell stuff". Although I disagree with your claim of extreme persecution I must say that evolution is a fact but don't take my word for it go and research from credible sources, you can still be a christian that believes in evolution I have many christian friends that do. Please reply if you have any questions and I wil do my best to answer them. PEACE
TheXman300 9 months ago
The only thing i didn't like, was her attitude. Arrogant, mockering and disrespecful. Even if she dindn't agree, that's her opinion. But she was a arrogant and proud brat. What an attitude... Kirk was a gentleman in his opinion. She is very rebelious. Doesn't listen and she's not open at all.
riodejaneir10 11 months ago
Woe we are a fallen creation, proud and spiteful. Jesus thank you for dying for humanity, for humbling yourself to the point of death for our tranagression Only You are good God
naara05 1 year ago
Dude. Seriously. Tell me she does porn.
jankendorf 1 year ago
@jankendorf dude i wish......... i am sad
mussonman 11 months ago
I am totally with you Kirk and Ray (I hope I got your names right!) I have to be honest, though they are not science experts , so at some parts it was off, but I know where they are getting at. But they were making sense most of the time. You have to submit that there is a God, I really admire the wisdom that the female in the debate projected but I donot desire to be an individual like her.
sruthiize 1 year ago
This depresses me.
HighOnPaint 1 year ago
@HighOnPaint Why?
jankendorf 1 year ago
Watched both episodes and all parts.
Anyone notice that they actually never DID give any evidence, just their own personal opinioin, . . . then were unable to counter the argument that they were promoting a terroristic type of agenda, . . . with no good reason?
What a shame that "fear of something seemingly infinitely scary" is supposed to THEN be "loved" somehow, else punishment?
Way Of The Master = fail
DeavonReye 1 year ago
if there is a powerful intelligence, or a "god" that created the universe, it certainly isn't the petty, jealous, genocidal. patriarchal, abrahamic god of the bible, torrah, and quran. it's also not the god of the hindus, buddists, or any other mythologized religion.
it might just be the universe itself. this is what the founding fathers of the united states of america believed. i am an atheist, but i can agree with this definition of god.
demoskunk 1 year ago
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." ...Stephen F Roberts
/discussion
Akhlore 1 year ago
No kirk , you didn't say Einstein was a christian , but that doesn't excuse the fact that asserting that he believed in god , was a lie. If you had any valid points to back up your claims , you wouldn't have to resort to lying. Pathetic.
dadylarge 1 year ago
Isn't this episode 1?
smashballbrawler 1 year ago
Sorry Kirk and Ray,
Unfortunately you can't fix stupid, and you are hella stupid.
Berelore 1 year ago
I just think that it is funny how no atheist has been able to come into a debate over God with Christians without them simply reverting to slander and attacks. I mean read the comments, listen to what they said in the video (especially Kelly). Kelly had 10% science and 90% hate. Also I do not feel that Ray put up any good rebuttals, but rather he was simply preaching. Kirk on the other hand answered questions more directly. Both sides in this debate were flawed simply because they had people.
Badartist 1 year ago
Kirk Cameron is such a jerk......okay, he SEEMS like a nice guy, but he's an actor. Meaning he's a good liar. I question if he and guys like him can seriously believe in God after hearing the RRS. Even if Kirk stopped believing in God, he would never admit to it because it would ruin his career.
I think he does care somewhat about people, but he is clearly very confused and that is what really makes him come across as a jerk.
The Way of the Master are such pricks & seeing them owned rocks.
Zeeboe 1 year ago
ray and kirk are lying.....the real god is zeus, he has six pack abs
yahwed is just a fat drunk
captaindisguise 1 year ago
I truly hate the Way of the Master. It's great seeing RRS own these two scumbags. I never can get tired of watching this debate.
What's funny is I use to be a Christian and a WOTM fan. I LOVED those guys! When this debate happened, I was going through a major change and becoming an atheist. I was actually hoping WOTM would own RRS, but it was the over way around and this debate helped me finally settle into becoming a atheist.
Zeeboe 1 year ago
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NowYouSeeTV 1 year ago
my question is a little shatneresque but "what would god care if a person believes or not wouldnt that just prove god is a egomaniac and capable of jealousy "
henshinman 1 year ago
poor people who have gone so far to their inteligence..i believe Jesus will knock the hearts of these people..
kulikungpaw 1 year ago
@0:55,
The answer is a resounding negative. People sin against their conscience all of the time.
numberonesurvivor75 1 year ago
Kelly was kinda dumb, Brian was smart. Ray and Kirk are, ummmm, well,....... creationists.
bouiglob 1 year ago
Nice how the RR squad mentions how Kirk and Ray didn't have "proof" in their eyes for the existence of God but they didn't have PROOF themselves either for the complete non-existence of any god. If you're going to play the game, play on an even playing field. Redhead really is a complete moron, if she's the best the RR crew has, that's pretty sad
gt5323b 1 year ago
If there's no proof for the existance of something, we don't need to provide proof that it doesn't exist... Now prove me that Vishnu does not exist... BTW, they are actually speaking of the hypotetical existance of the christian god of the genesis.
Acrimonator 1 year ago
@gt5323b - I can prove there is no God. Where is he if he is real? Why can't we see or hear him? Why isn't there a picture of him? Why isn't there more then one document that proves he is real other then the bible? The fact that I cannot see or hear this guy and that there is nothing other then bible (which is full of insane stories) tells me he is not real.
Zeeboe 1 year ago
"so let's all humble our hearts and pray to posiedon" .......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!! what an ignorant, CHILDISH comment. poseidon. how is that relevant at all. she just had to squeeze that in. it makes her look like a complete idiot. even if i was an atheist i would be embarrassed of her, and the snotty little attitude she brought onto the stage. how unproffessional.
kylesgonegolfin 1 year ago
@kylesgonegolfin - She said that because what exactly is the difference between praying to the Christian God and Poseidon? What if I do all that stuff Ray said, but instead I pray to Poseidon? I guarantee I could brain wash myself into thinking Poseidon is real just like Christians brain wash themselves into thinking Christ is real. There is no reason to pick the Christian God over the other god's. Maybe there is a God, but how do you know it's the Christian God and not Poseidon?
Zeeboe 1 year ago
what does Kelly says at the end? at 8:35, please someone tell me =P
PablitoCartero 1 year ago
lol didnt galileo get prosecuted by the church for his findings and ideas? roflmao excellent arguement kirk
Dopesmoker213 1 year ago
exactly is not that you cant find God but you wont find God.
any you know why tyou wont find God
Because he isnt ther
badpanda84 2 years ago
This is the worst atheism vs. religion debate I've watched on YouTube. Both sides were rambling, disorganized, emotional, and unconvincing. And the audience was extremely rude and impatient—plus the constant clapping for each point was annoying.
pizzaman883 2 years ago 2
Hye kelly,, you sond like an idiot,, I would love to have a debate with you.
Trackman203 2 years ago
And hovsec,,,and YOU apparently understand evolution. PLease enlighten me. HA,,,, and you can back that up,, that there is no hell. the world is messed up and the bible offers, ,an answere, as all theory's are created by man.
Trackman203 2 years ago
very interesting debate, and of course kirk and ray didnt present scientific evidence, but they werent that bad after all, but obviously they dont understand evolution and many other things and dont understand what is to be an atheist, kirk said he was an atheis but he really sucked at being atheist, i wish they would just step out of temselves and their beliefs and convictions and actually think and question things for once
hovsec 2 years ago 8
@hovsec Um they didn't provide any evidence or logic or anything else valid in presenting an argument. They need to take an undergraduate logic course. I will say the red haired girl is kind of obnoxious too though. You can completely destroy their sorry excuse for an argument without being such a bitch.
madmiguelh2o 6 months ago
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Final Score:
RRS = 0
WOTM = 0
Stitchman3875 2 years ago
einstein and gallalio and god, wow now ive heard everything. he should look up the catholic churches persecution of gallalio, or anyone of the letters einstein wrote to the newspapers and colleagues. "i do not believe in a personal god and i have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. Einstein , March 24 1954. there are countless writtings similar to this, look them up boy actor.
lukoshey79 2 years ago 13
Darwin himself said that its "inconceivable to think that something even as complex as the human eye, could be the result of chance."
so the persons ideas who you all chase after, never denied Christ, but had a theory. And it was just that.. A THEORY. People just love to not have to answer to anyone so they of course, made it into a "religion"
xamire 2 years ago
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Xamire. you need to look up the word Theory in science...Please do it for me and yourself. wikipedia it or something, it turns out to be the complete opposite to that which suggests a mere hypotheis,
just as the general theory of relativity is Just a theory or the heliocentric theory of the motion of planets is just a theory. they are fact, fact based on observed evidence which continually reaffirms itself with new evidence that comes in. look it up.
lukoshey79 2 years ago 3
@xamire How does that have anything to do with the character "Jesus Christ"?
ryken7 2 years ago
@xamire You mean: "To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible degree." Of course, quote mining doesn't work if you dig to the proper depth. (cont'd)
419Films 7 months ago
@xamire "With these facts, here far too briefly and imperfectly given, which show that there is much graduated diversity in the eyes of living crustaceans, and bearing in mind how small the number of living animals is in proportion to those which have become extinct, (cont'd)
419Films 7 months ago
@xamire "I can see no very great difficulty (not more than in the case of many other structures) in believing that natural selection has converted the simple apparatus of an optic nerve merely coated with pigment and invested by transparent membrane, into an optical instrument as perfect as is possessed by any member of the great Articulate class." A mere 2 paragraphs after your quote from "The Origin Of Species".
419Films 7 months ago
@lukoshey79 He believed in God. Not god from the bible, which is a shame, but he knew that there was intelligent design. That is a fact
bigmanforce 1 year ago
@bigmanforce you are so very misguided my friend, please read some of his actuall writtings, oh its a shame he didnt believe your book rather than what, the torah the koran... how could one of them be right and all others wrong when theres enough evidence to see that they are all plagarised. go back to sleep. oh you use the word fact, i wasnt sure you people enjoyed such things. facts come from evidence buddy not faiths.....
lukoshey79 1 year ago
@lukoshey79 'personal god'?? like you mean god is only available to one person? boy actor, man, i'd love to have achieved what he has. and make a stand.
DanArmaniBeats 8 months ago
@DanArmaniBeats personal god. the one that answers prays and gives a poop about your personal life, like who you have sex with and in what position, what you eat, what thoughts you have, etc etc...
lukoshey79 8 months ago
@lukoshey79 man i can't sell you god. i am not good enough. if you meet the standards maybe you can tell me how you've set that up for yourself.
DanArmaniBeats 8 months ago
@DanArmaniBeats you see, theres the problem, if your god was so wonderful and loving and omnipresent, then you wouldnt need to (as you put it ) SELL him, we would all come to him with praise, love and awe,there would be no such thing as atheists if your god was truelly the god of gods... clearly hes not... sad but true.. so give it up and get on with your life friend. there are many new friends to make on this side, i promise.
lukoshey79 8 months ago
@lukoshey79 sure thing man. just wanted to reach out. i got my own crumbs to worry about. but with a God like mine, there's not much worries in it for me, unless i let it. and that's the beauty in believing something. in this case a higher order. peace
DanArmaniBeats 8 months ago
@lukoshey79
Hello. As to your comment. I"m not in this for a debate simply to obtain understanding. You stated " if your god was so wonderful and loving and omnipresent, then you wouldnt need to (as you put it ) SELL him, we would all come to him with praise, love and awe" For that matter is why from what I learned, that God have human "freewill." to choose to believe, or not to believe, "freewill" Good day!
infojluna1 6 months ago
We are not going to burn for eternity.
excusasnotendras 2 years ago 3
And If I light someone on fire, they won't hurt because I don't feel it.
xamire 2 years ago
Isaiah 65
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me; I was found by those who did not seek me. To a nation that did not call on my name, I said, 'Here am I, here am I.' 2 All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations- 3 a people who continually provoke me to my very face
Such people are smoke in my nostrils, a fire that keeps burning all day.
DaFithGospel 2 years ago
Isaiah 65
I was ready to be sought by those who did not ask for me; I was ready to be found by those who did not seek me. I said "Here am I, here am I," to a nation that was not called by my name."
2. I spread out my hands all day to a rebellious people, who walk in a way that is not good, following their own devices;
3. A people who provoke me to my face continually, sacrificing in gardens and making Offerings on bricks.
Don't twist scripture, If that was your goal.
BOMBERMAN1231029 2 years ago
na it wasn't my goal i was just trying to draw a comparison to God's anger at atheists today and his anger at those that denied him then. It's the same concept people who deny the ways of God so they can serve their own desires...
DaFithGospel 2 years ago
man it's as though the atheist didn't listen to a single thing the others said. I mean there was definitely logic presented on God's side and good points made but the atheists acted like it was non existent like they do with God...smh
DaFithGospel 2 years ago
Sort of like when the rich man went to hell and pleaded with God to send him back from the grave to tell his brothers that also didn't believe and He said "Even If I were to send you back, they still wouldn't believe because they do not want to believe or seek"
He doesn't hate people. He loves all people. I just find it nothing but peoples PRIDE that keeps them from calling on him.
xamire 2 years ago
The sad reality is the atheists can't grasp the point. Choosing to become a Christian is NOT about fear of Hell, it's about accepting Christ's love for us and letting Him be Lord of your life. It's not about fearing hell-that would mean you worship your fear, not God.
Until you become a Chrsitian, you can't really grasp that however.
And warning people of Hell is not fear mongering, it is a loving act. Trying to help people avoid eternal suffering-yeah, terrible.
yamagoof 2 years ago
"...accepting Christ's love for us and letting Him be Lord of your life."
why shouldnt YOU be the Lord of YOUR own life?
NonEternal 2 years ago 3
And that's exactly what Satan wants. And these demons know that's what men want. To either answer to no one, or be a god their selves.
This is nothing new. It's as old as the earth itself.
The thing is, why stops these people from actually calling out to him in private? What will it hurt since they think its a "fairy tale"?
It's because they want to do what they want, and when they want to do it. It's pride. It's self love. Sad that their self love doesn't promote them to seek truth.
xamire 2 years ago
Yea. I'm not really afraid of hell. I'm afraid of not being with God, which whom I love, and can feel and understand. He is more of a father, than any real father on earth could be. His love is beyond anyone's comprehension.
xamire 2 years ago
the christian "god" is a textbook abusive boyfriend...you have to give him everything and humble yourself and be totally submissive and if you DARE dis-please him he'll show you suffering and agony and pain...Sound familiar, ladies??? Sound like your last piece of shit boyfriend, maybe?
farawayreach 2 years ago
Kelly has nice tits. She should do porn. Those other douche bags should get some hot chicks on their side.
BaneOfFreeSpeech 2 years ago
i believe she does do porn. and is a hooker in vegas. at least, thats what i heard. and im not kidding.
Pelonetillo 2 years ago
Bible said:
when a person slap on your left face, you turn your right face to him; when a rapist rape your mom,please let your sister to him ; when a killer kill your dad, let him kill your mom and your siblings also....not me, but it mentions in the BIBLE ....
weleio 2 years ago
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weleio 2 years ago
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weleio 2 years ago
hahaha, its just Kelly, she must have been embarrased to only give her first name, whatta donkey.
cfshane 2 years ago
humble our hearts to posiedin, this chick ruined the atheist arugument, lol
cfshane 2 years ago
no she didnt, she could of said humble our hearts to any of the thousands of 'Gods' there have been through history.
3556df44 2 years ago
Chritianity isnt a religion, its Gods way, who picked out the opposition in this debate, they failed but good thing is they brought many to accept Jesus!!
cfshane 2 years ago
ok jjukil and rationalanarchy
I know you guys don't see it the same way as me and that's fine dude, maybe if I explain a bit better you could understand my side of it a bit better
Christians see God as a father
now, lets say you guys are fathers and your sons did something bad, have rebelled against your rules and say they hate you
would you stop loving your son? would you punish him to make him see his error?
hit me back, I'd still like to hear more about your side of the argument
pixelspillover 2 years ago
if God doesn't exist when we die that's it, nobody is gonna tell the other person I told you so...
now, on the other hand if God does exist when we die, ......we told you so!!!
so... the way I see it, its win -win for Christians
plus the gospel isn't about loving God or you'll burn in hell it's about loving God because He loved you first! we don't love Him so He'll love us, we love God BECAUSE He loved us.
pixelspillover 2 years ago
pixelspillover: Look up Pascal's Wager and its rebuttals.
jjukil 2 years ago 2
so the god which loves me first so much (heck, where does the bible say that, btw?) will have to torture me for all eternity because I don't love him back? What kind of love is that? And how am I supposed to love something which I don't even know to exist?
And given the thousands and thousands of gods which people believed in during history, how can you expect to meet the the Christian god after you die? What if you meet Odin or Norum-tori, Amon-Ra or Huitzlipochtli and they will let you burn?
dasGagaTier 2 years ago
not really. christians arent the only people who believe in god. the god of the bible is a jealous god, he wants no other gods placed above him. gods of other religions are similar. so just because theres a god doesnt mean you win, maybe the god that does exist is one from another religion, a religion you didnt believe in. that means youre in the same boat as an atheist if that happens.
Pelonetillo 2 years ago
May God Bless you all, I will pray for you tonight.
suprsiz3 2 years ago
Lets drop the God subject and stick with morality. The ego of one's self has trouble of letting go of rationalism and faith and both faith and rationalism suffer with competitive arguements that don't lead anywhere beneficial. Though, we are intelligent beings with a conscience. So therefore we should act as human beings with virtue, not a beings to gratify one's self or points of interests.
Over that past many years there have been many sufferings over this subject.
CerebralTwilight 2 years ago
or bad. they will also meet God to be Judged by him. and those people will lose every thing.
alval2v 2 years ago
If the bible is not true, their is no God, no heaven no hell. then when we die, were dead. their is no conscience no spirit. no nothing. so all the good and bad and the beliefs we believe comes to nothing. we will gain nothing and loose nothing. but if the bible is true. Their is a God, a heaven and a Hell. when we die we will meet God. And we who put our faith and hope in something we have never seen. will be saved God will reward us. and those who did not believe. rather they were good....
alval2v 2 years ago
this video should be called way of the master vs irrational response.
alval2v 2 years ago
This is due to the unfortunate fact that neither is learned in the rudiments of formal logic and the fallacies of reasoning which are an area of Logic. Kirk really is a sincerely decent and kind person. However, he will freely confide that he's not college educated and has no understanding of the essentials of Classical reasoning and formal logic. Both of which are essential for engaging in formal debate.
kevinneslund 2 years ago
It's funny how someone can't find a way to refute Kirk Cameron, so they have to result in calling him gay. AND PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT CHRISTIANS ARE THE "GAY BASHERS"?
CheapTrick81 2 years ago
When Kirk Cameron says something intelligent, let us know.
billsbunions 2 years ago
kirk cameron is obviously gay. hes gonna burn in hell for eternity according to his "loving" and "forgiving" god. pathetic.
westsidestory23 2 years ago
Why is he obviously gay? +1 to Rationalanarchy and kevinneslund's comments on this one.
And to Cheaptrick81, on behalf of the atheist community, homophobia and sexual discrimination are not practiced by most atheists, although I can't speak for everyone.
danielwerre 2 years ago
of course i dont know if he IS gay, im just saying that i hate when the christian homophobes condemn others when they are often gay themselves. like ted haggard and the rest of them.
i worded that incorrectly, i was just trying to express my hatred for fundamentalist hypocrisy. and no, i dont think u can tell if someones is gay by their appearance or demeanor. it was merely an exaggeration, my own sense of humor i guess u could say..
westsidestory23 2 years ago
thats the whole point of faith evidence is not Gods thing faith is thats the whole point.stop looking for evidence you'll find it unless you have an open heart
standinfirm2608 2 years ago
It seems Iaint no good has the EGO syndrome....Ease God Out.....that is
ricardoglut2007 2 years ago
the moderator was quite baised toward kirk and ray
ray was extremely unintelligent, kirk was too, especially with regard to evolution
playland00 2 years ago
Einstien was an agnostic, which is actually much more closely related to Athiesm.
Oreeyo 2 years ago
Please share your source for this claim if you'd be so kind. Thanks.
kevinneslund 2 years ago
Seeking any god, ghost, alien, or other apparition with your whole heart means youve already assumed these things exist, and convinced yourself of this without question.
Ray DIScomfort, you are a failure.
Feredir28 2 years ago
You've a non sequitar here. Please explain how one "convinces" themself of an assumption. In other words, stop and think of what you've just stated. If you "assume", for example, that something exists, you can not simply "convince" yourself of it's actual existence without evidence. You've placed this claim on Mr. Comfort. Please examine your assertion. The failure lies somewhere other than Mr. Comfort, unfortunately. Cheers ~
kevinneslund 2 years ago
in other words "You can only find god if you want to find god"
So you have to presume god exhists to ever start believing in him.
david3newman 2 years ago
god keeps my cereal crunchy in the morning...REPENT!!! RAWRRRRR
kingofschnitzels 2 years ago
Actually it was Kirk & Ray was the one who set this debate up =P
lIlLLinIlI 2 years ago
biased? don't you mean only one side presented evidence. here's a hint: it was't comfort's and caMORON'S side.
nosoliciting0911 2 years ago 6
Christians gone wild. That's sounds like a good idea for a TV show XD. And the only time i see god is when im high.
helldogas2 2 years ago
i thought it was pretty harsh that the audience was clearly biased
simplynutter08 2 years ago 2
i almost feel sorry for ray and kirk getting destroyed like this
simplynutter08 2 years ago
i don't really think they got destroyed....
i mean, the argument in its entirety was well thought of by both sides...
it was AMAZINGLY interesting if you ask me...
one side would fire, and the other would retaliate pretty well...
but for the most part, i mean....kirk and ray DID leave out the MOST important factor in Christianity, which is FAITH....and even like that, they retaliated w/ great scientific responses, so yeah...
i don't think they got "destroyed"...if anything, they won
aaronh250 2 years ago
they didn't respond with scientific arguments because they based their 'science' on the bible, which although they believe to be true, any non-christian doesn't
this is because, as you said, they rely on faith for their beliefs.
but this is exactly the point of the debate, to prove that god exists etc with scientific evidence and logic, without the need for blind faith
kirk and ray failed
if someone else's faith is a good argument for religion, then an agnostic could choose ANY religion
simplynutter08 2 years ago
Kirk and Ray setup this debate saying that God could be proven SCIENTIFICALLY. The RRS was just there to respond to their claim.
Their entire argument was a logical fallacy. A painter and a painting, creator and creation. They haven't demonstrated that it is a "creation". We know how paintings come about, and we know how buildings are built.
Our best understanding of the world is with science, and god so far has been completely absent.
So I agree, they were absolutely, and utterly, destroyed.
Havenfall 2 years ago 5
You cant tell a person with no education simply to be intelligent. You cannot just go to to a person in the third world whos starving and tell them hey be intelligent have no faith. Its better if we start by teaching morality, then we give the same good education to every person in the world and then we can tell them guess what god does not exist
sodomizing 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I am an atheist, but I support those Christians. Most of Atheists are too egocentric, they just want to show everybody that they are right, but they dont get that there are many people who are not as smart as them and are without a religion would do much worse things than what they do as Christians.
They have to understand that still for many people Faith (even if it is just something psychological) is the only thing that help them to survive to their terrible lives.
sodomizing 2 years ago
You fool, it's because of their RESPECT for human intelligence and love of fellow man that they DON'T just say "well you guys are too stupid to get it anyway, I'll just let you keep believing rubbish". They have hope that humanity ISN'T so stupid as to need faith, and try to help people overcome this need for faith, because it's unhealthy, and in fundamentalism downright dangerous to themselves and others. Religion breeds bigotry, and we as a species need to band together and stamp it out.
NoeLPZC 2 years ago
Comment removed
sodomizing 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Its so funny... The 'rational response squad' failed so miserable Kelly is now in the adult film industries and has moved to Nevada to become a prostitute under the name kasey grant.
I'm not making this up.
Epic Atheist failure.
Theologica37 2 years ago
Just because she possibly made a misjudgment later in life doesn't mean the points they made in this debate about how God doesn't exist are not valid. The way of the master didn't provide any evidence and the rational response squad brought up point after point. Also, Ted Haggard, enough said.
CutieBabe25 2 years ago 3
i noticed she had fake breasts..
kamalgilkesk 2 years ago
hilarious!!! is that the best you can do theologica? whatever it takes for you to sleep at night. the wotm cultists were thoroughly thrashed!!!
fredmelmackian 2 years ago
that isnt kelly. and even if it is, id rather be a whore than an idiot like you or those too.
TheRealEricLester 2 years ago
it actually is kelly, but you don't have to believe me. The facts are: she is now a whore living in las vegas, take it or leave it. Its all over the internet.
Theologica37 2 years ago
Where exactly is it all over the internet?
theredblueblurr 2 years ago
Nothin wrong with being a whore
danielwerre 2 years ago
Specially with a hot whore
nimatoike 2 years ago
too bad the religious people are MUCH more composed than the atheists. They only degrade their arguements by being emotional & jabby. jackasses.
I wish they would have asked "if god created the universe why does he require you to worship him (not to mention all the massacres and shit in the bible)"
citrusbyte 2 years ago
Too bad the religious people failed at their objective to prove gods existence through science, and were stumped by the atheists and the moderater who is a religious man.
someone obviously didn't watch any of the debate. I'll give you a clue, its you.
MetalEagle95 2 years ago 3
Ray raped my grandma.
Signed,
- Ray's Grandson
musiccalgary 2 years ago
Einstein did not have a religion, he quoted: "I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. "
"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."
ImmenseRaven 2 years ago
I'm not a christian, and I hate religion etc etc. But to be fair to Einstein, he actually was religious. He was even offered to be the president of the new state/country - Israel, which was developing in the middle east at that time period. And if you watch documentaries about him, they say he was born and raced in a religious family but took distance to it in his younger years, but as he grew up he reconnected with the Jewish religion.
buizberder 2 years ago
He did not believe in a personal god. He did not become jewish later on, read his biography.
ImmenseRaven 2 years ago
All of Einstein's later quotes are very clear on his position. He very clearly spelled out he did not believe in a personal god, nor was he even a deist.
huskers12303 2 years ago 10
He believed in a higher power; not necessarily a GOD.
mrsexappeal69 2 years ago