@gogreen18 No offence intended to you as I realise you probably have sentimental feelings about the Mormon upbringing you had, but the Mormon church is a cult. The book of mormon is the product of a false prophet. It is well known that the Mormon tradition has associations with paternalistic social expectations and unscriptural attitudes.
Re "God has more respect for men" - No, a thousand times, No! This is not the case whatsoever. The Bible says all are equal in the sight of God.
@faithbyloving You might want to read your Bible more closely. 1 Timothy, for instance. And the only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of adherents.
@MoriyaMug Hi thanks for your message. I do read it extremely closely, to the extent of the original Hebrew and Greek. I would recommend it.
Regarding cults, no, according to the Oxford dictionary, a cult is notably "a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or as imposing EXCESSIVE CONTROL over members". This is also its usage in practice on a day to day basis. It's not defined by the number of adherents.
@faithbyloving I'm aware of the dictionary definition. I'm talking about practical purposes. Your faith does exercise excessive control over you. It has caused you to suspend your ability to think rationally. You don't get much excessive than that.
@MoriyaMug re "It has caused you to suspend your ability to think rationally" - no it hasn't at all. Quite the opposite. If you receive Christ by revelation and are spiritually changed, you will find that far from having a reduced capacity to think and understand the world, you will have a greatly enhanced capacity for both! It is people who have not received Christ, that have the reduced capacity to think rationally. Only when they receive Christ, do their minds expand.
@MoriyaMug It is both revealing & interesting, how your views are directly related to your misunderstanding of both the meaning & higher purpose of scripture. The higher purpose of scripture is to receive the best that God has for us by learning from his way, rather than creating the worst that we end up creating for ourselves and our world, because we have gone our "own way" with our own ideas.
Look around you, you won't have to look far to see the broken society you live in!
@faithbyloving Wow. Impressive rant. More impressive is that you've somehow divined the TRUE intention of the Bible, and thus you know which passages are relevant to today and which one's aren't. You've accomplished what millions before you have failed to do. Aren't you special? Logical fallacies.
If you really were thinking rationally, you would evaluate the Bible like any other book. But you won't, because you "know it's true" already. So much for critical thinking.
@MoriyaMug re "Wow. Impressive rant" - thanks! I hope it helps you think through your prejudices, which colour your feelings against Bible. re "divined TRUE intention of the Bible" - yes that is correct. You don't though because you have not humbled yourself to the Lord, to ask Him what it means. You will only understand Bible by asking the One who inspired it.
re "You've accomplished what millions before you have failed to do" - I don't think so. Millions Have. What about you?
@MoriyaMug re "Aren't you special?" - No. Not at all, except that the Lord has forgiven me. He can forgive you too.
re "If you really were thinking rationally, you would evaluate the Bible like any other book" - no I wouldn't. It isn't like "any other book". What you call "critical thinking" when applied to the Bible is nothing more than trying to reduce the text to something which can be appropriated by thinking. It can't in that usual sense. It requires something very much more
@MoriyaMug re "you "know it's true" already" - yes, I do. It is.
I know this from both study of the scriptures, the realisation that the prophecies are being fulfilled in our own time, today and because of my own experience of the words of the Bible being made true in my own life experience.
For instance, the prophecies in Isaiah, Zechariah, Jeremiah etc all predicted return of the nation of Israel. Yet Israel has been scattered worldwide for 2000 yrs. It is a unique occurrence
@MoriyaMug No other nation has ever returned to its homeland after 2000 yrs absence. This is undeniable and even you must admit that the liklihood of this occurring after 2000 yrs is extremely unlikely. Still less that it fulfills prophecies that were written hundreds of years before Israel was even dispersed. Yet Christ prophesied that the Great Temple built by Herod, would be utterly destroyed. It was by AD 70 and then followed the Jewish diaspora around the world.
@MoriyaMug So friend, when you "evaluate the Bible" to use your expression, it is not simply a matter of approaching it "like any other book", because it isn't like "any other book". Other books don't predict events that occur hundreds of years later, exactly as prophesied. If you want to "evaluate" the Bible, you must do it, by understanding its contents and what learning the different types of writings it contains, which must be read according to the type of writing.
@MoriyaMug Have you ever considered how the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered and why they had lain undiscovered in caves for 2000 yrs? Yet the were discovered in 1947, the year that Israel was to return to its homeland? Co-incidence? No. It is highly unlikely that it was a co-incidence. These scrolls had remained hidden for 2000 yrs and were only discovered when an arab boy looking for his sheep, threw a stone into a cave, which hit some pottery, raising investigation!
@MoriyaMug Yet, this very same event "COULD" have happened at any time during the preceding 2000 yrs! That's a long time for such a thing to wait to happen, but more intruiging is the contents of the Scrolls hoard, which confirmed Israel's heritage to the land and that the manuscripts of the Bible, had been faithfully copied for a further 1000 yrs backwards in time.
@MoriyaMug Co-incidence? Highly unlikely! In 1948 the year later Israel declared its sovereignty, and fulfilled the prophesies in the Scroll of Isaiah and others, found in the Dead Sea Scrolls themselves!
Wake up! There is a great deal more that you need to grasp!
@MoriyaMug Incidently, are you aware of the fact that when the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in 1947, this was just ONE DAY out of a potential 730000 days, over 2000 yrs! Yet it had to wait to be discovered for approx 730000 days, in the very year that plans were made to re-establish the Israel that the prophetic manuscripts in the hoard predicted?? Anyone that claims that is mere co-incidence, is pushing the boundaries of probability, into a state of mental delusion! Wake up!
@faithbyloving Were you aware that the Genesis account of creation is shockingly similar to that of the Egyptians? Or that Moses is based on the Sumerian myth of Misis? Or that the story of Noah is wholesale copied from Utnapishtim, from the Epic of Gilgamesh (something for which there IS physical proof of authorship, btw). Or that the whole of the Old Testament is historically inaccurate? Telling me to "wake up" is no more persuasive than telling me I'm risking my soul.
@MoriyaMug Yes, there are similar accounts such as the Epic of Gilgamesh (Babylonian) etc, all pointing to a common event, which makes it very interesting.
No, Moses is not based upon Sumerian writings. re "Or that the story of Noah is wholesale copied" - yes, the common accounts lead to an event which is corroborrated!
re "the whole of the Old Testament is historically inaccurate" - you would have to provide irrefutable evidence for such a claim.
@faithbyloving "No, it's not" is not an argument, and Gilgamesh is not a "common account." It's the same story with a few details changed. I'm not the one claiming that the Bible is historical. There is no factual evidence in support of it. If you want to talk about evidence, let's discuss onus probandi, and why it's solely on you, as the theist. Tell me your purely empirical reason for belief, and don't delve into logical fallacies. This I would love to see.
@MoriyaMug re "Gilgamesh is not a "common account." It's the same story" - by definition, you are contradicting yourself. A common account = the same story. I have no doubt that it has a historical basis at some point in time, otherwise how would you explain that commonalities of the story across the whole region?
@faithbyloving You're splitting hairs. The Noah story is a plagiarism of a story from a civilization that was busy undergoing the agricultural revolution while Yahweh was supposedly creating the world. And flood myths are common because flooding is common, and people didn't know why it happened. Anything they didn't understand was attributed to the divine. There's no evidence that a global flood ever happened.
@MoriyaMug No "splitting hairs" friend. YHWH wasn't creating the world when it was already created, because there is no date for creation. No such date or time is specified in the Bible whatsoever.
@MoriyaMug re "If you think I'm your friend, then you obviously don't recognize an enemy when you see or hear one" - that's up to you. However, it reveals the result of being an enemy against God - it results in being enemies with your fellow man! It rather proves my point, my friend.
@faithbyloving You, as a person, may be perfectly nice. I bear you no personal ill will. You are espousing and promoting an evil doctrine of willful ignorance and mental slavery, however, and that makes you my enemy for as long as you continue to do so.
@faithbyloving Roughly translated, "I know you are but what am I?" Do you really regard this schoolyard gainsaying as legitimate debate? Do you consider it as anything close to mature? If so, then I feel sorry for you.
@MoriyaMug re "flood myths are common" - where are they "common"? - you mean in the Middle East? That is clearly because they refer to a flood which occurred in land at some pre-history time. The commonality of these flood accounts points to the common experience of the people of the Middle East at some time in history.
@faithbyloving Bzzzt. Unprovable assertion + false dichotomy. The common nature of the flood myth is not evidence. You apparently don't know what evidence is, either.
@MoriyaMug Second you allege that common accounts of a Flood cannot be evidence! On what basis cannot these accounts be evidence? (perhaps because you have prejudice against historical peoples, as if they were somehow less able or reliable than modern peoples? Whilst there are known mythologies from the ancient world, the Flood has never been substantiated as one of these! It must therefore be considered evidence, until evidence to the contrary has been proven)
@faithbyloving Anecdotes are not empirical evidence, no matter how many you get or how well-attested they are. (For an example, research the miracle at Fatima.) They are precisely NOT how one reaches the truth. The claim that the flood really happened is the one that bears the burden of proof, and that burden has not been sufficiently dealt with. As the skeptic, the burden of proof is not on me or anyone else, except for the claimant.
@MoriyaMug Anecdote or not, I have asked you to explain it. Do you admit that you fail to explain how this exceptional and astonishing fact could happen? re "research the miracle at Fatima" - this is no comparison whatsoever. The facts are presented to you and they are indisputable. You cannot deny these facts, because they demonstrably exist. If you cannot explain them, then you have a problem indeed!
@faithbyloving Again, why should I bother trying to justify your claims? That is your job. Meet the burden of proof and we'll talk. The prophecies are vague enough to allow you to shoehorn modern events to suit; people do the same thing with any prophecies. It isn't proof of prescience. It's no more viable than someone pointing out instances where a horoscope's prediction was on target. Statistically, it's bound to happen. Insanely improbable events actually happen all the time.
@faithbyloving Of course not. Your question (which I've already answered) is idiotic and meaningless, while you're completely disregarding everything that might actually challenge your faith, and deliberately misinterpreting plain English to dodge the issue. Typical Christian. Cognitive dissonance, intellectual dishonesty and moving the goalposts. I'm done with you. You're obviously completely brainwashed.
@MoriyaMug Of course "you're done with me" friend - you can't answer my question or show the integrity or honesty to address it with any sincerity. I'm not suprised, because the question itself, challenges the very core of your own beliefs! This is why you prefer not to consider its very serious implications!
Goodbye, then. Take care my friend and may you reconsider your position privately.
@faithbyloving "I know you are but what am I." So very immature. You actually think you've won the argument. To borrow a phrase... discussing Christianity with Christians is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon — it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory. Don't worry; if I "reconsider my position," it won't be because of inept debaters like you.
@MoriyaMug There isn't any "winner" of an argument here. I'm not interested in "winning an argument". That is not the point of my having spent time with you and I hope that it wasn't the point that you had in mind! "Winning arguments" is not the same as discovering truth. One may be adept at presenting a case either way, but still not know the truth or whole truth. I don't regard myself to have won anything, but I have responded to your challenge.
@MoriyaMug If you consider me "inept", then forgive me. You may well be a far better debater than I am and indeed, I hope you are, though this is of little interest to me. What concerns me is that the lies and misrepresentation that are being thrown at the Bible, Christians and the church, must themselves be challenged and corrected.
@MoriyaMug Most of it is through ignorance of the Christian faith and the scriptures, which are both worthy of serious consideration. They are not the product of armchair speculators as today's youtubers are - they were born through devout and faithful martyrs, whose blood was shed only because they believed what they said and knew it to be true in their own lives. Take care my friend and God bless you and all your family in the name of Yeshua.
@MoriyaMug I leave you with one last thought - watch the so called Arab spring and developments of the muslim nations surrounding Israel; the growth and growing unity of the Muslim Brotherhood and its associated subgroups; the allegiances between Syria and Russia; the opposition of China to UN resolutions; the stockpile of Chemical and other weapons in Syria and its near proximity to Israel's borders...
Consider that in Isaiah, Zechariah, Jeremiah, Daniel, etc these prophets, besides describing Jews being brought to Israel by gentiles, also foretell the joining of these muslim nations which are actually listed by name in their prophecies, as nations joining together to attack Israel...when this happens or begins, don't say I didn't warn you.
@MoriyaMug Here is the question again: How did the Dead Sea Scroll lay hidden for 2000 yrs from shepherds until the United Nations Plan for Israel was declared in 1947, when the very same scrolls contained the prophecies of Israel's Return?
@MoriyaMug And secondly, quote me any other nation which has been absent for thousands of years and then returned according to that nation's own prophecies? Name just one??..If you can that is! Of course the answer is no, you can't, because naturally it doesn't happen. So why has it happened in Israel's case?
@MoriyaMug And forget all your mumbo jumbo about horoscopes, vagaries.
"Statistically, it's bound to happen" - Proove it? This is simply not the case! If it is, then name me one other similar nation?...no?....then it seems like your "statistics" are failing doesn't it?
@MoriyaMug re "There's no evidence that a global flood ever happened" - I don't think there was a global flood at least not in the Bible. I believe it was a localised flood to the Middle East. This is why the "flood myths" you speak of are localised to the Middle East.
@faithbyloving Hahaha. Funny, that's not what the Bible says. I suppose that the will of god only applied to that little region? I guess god didn't have any trouble with the civilizations that weren't in the Middle East. Maybe a wall of divine power kept the waters contained, since it covered the mountains (Gen 7:20). Sure must've sucked to be one of his "chosen people." More so than usual, I mean. He never was very kind to them on the best of days.
@MoriyaMug re "the will of god only applied to that little region?" - No, but the chosen nation/people are the means by which God has communicated to man for the purpose of restoring man to the peace which man turned away from and choosing instead conflict with God and his fellow man.
@MoriyaMug Biblically, the term "mountains" means kingdoms, but in this particular case, the mountains will have been local ones. We may never know the exact details of this account, because it is otherwise lost in history, so endless speculation in this regard is not profitable. Rather it is more meaningful to understand the message given in this, that man chose his own way and ended up creating evil by his disobedience.
@faithbyloving Basic math rules out the flood. There would be TRILLIONS of times more water than there is in the world right now (in any form) to cover the highest mountains. And where did all this water go? The amount of energy required to evaporate it and destabilize it into its component atoms would be sufficient to incinerate the planet. You really should study some basic physics... and anthropology.
@MoriyaMug re "Basic math rules out the flood" - not at all. You are interpeting the scripture to mean literally the "whole world flooded". I don't interpret the scripture that way at all. It means the "then known world", which though considerable, was centered around the Middle East.
Your allusions to science to try to disprove this are false.
@MoriyaMug re "empirical reason for belief" - I've already given you one: Israel's prophetic fulfillment. Please explain why this is not proof of the validity of the scriptures, since this constitutes a VERY LARGE part of the prophecies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Zephaniah, Daniel etc.
@MoriyaMug This fulfillment is an undeniable empirical evidence, unless you wish to "delve into logical fallacies" of how it can't be? I too would love to see you "explain it away".
@faithbyloving Ohhh, I see. You don't actually know what "empirical" means. Okay, that clears this whole matter up. Claims about the Dead Sea Scrolls and fulfilled prophecies are unsubstantiated and purely interpretational. But even if the Bible said unambiguously that the land of Israel would be restored at this time, etc., this would not be proof. If that's your basis, what'll happen to your belief when they're discredited?
@MoriyaMug re "Claims about the Dead Sea Scrolls and fulfilled prophecies are unsubstantiated and purely interpretational" - no they're not. You can "interpret" this how you like, but when it comes to the facts, it comes down to this:
1) Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Zehaniah, Hosea, Zechariah, all prophesied both
i) The Dispersal of the Jews around the world
ii) The Return of the Jews to Israel to be a nation again
2) These prophecies were fulfilled in 1948 and 1967.
@faithbyloving Again, none of this is evidence. It could all be perfectly accurate, and still prove nothing. And yet again, "No they're not" is not an argument. It may be sufficient to satisfy your incurious mind, but the vagaries of prophecy are ridiculous. Give me repeatable, testable, falsifiable evidence that your god even exists, and then we'll talk. Until then, I'm done with you. It's past 6pm and I have better ways to spend my evening.
@MoriyaMug the vagaries of prophecy are ridiculous - vagaries might be, but proven prophecies are never. A prophecy is proven when it is fulfilled. These prophecies detailing the return of Israel are both fulfilled and proven.
@MoriyaMug ..and furthermore, explain if you will, why the Dead Sea Scrolls lay hidden for 2000 yrs, to every arab shepherd, until 1947, the year of the UN Partition Plan of Palestine/Israel? When in these scrolls are the vary prophecies which tell of Israel's return from the diaspora! I await your excuses.
@MoriyaMug Regardless of any "interpretation", either the prophecies happened or they did not. In this case they did. Yes it is proof. This would not happen at all, if God had not commanded it. There will be no "discredit". There will be war against Israel, this is prophesied and it won't be long before it happens.
@MoriyaMug The political pieces are already being forged within the "Arab Spring", with the Islamic Brotherhood forging pan Islamic alliances. Did you think all those muslim nations had demonstrations by accident? No, Psalm 84 tells us that there will be a confederacy of 10 nations attacking Israel. This is in the making.
@faithbyloving How about the contradictions throughout the Bible? Or its inherent sexism? The fact that the Quirinian census didn't actually happen? The times not matching up with history? Even Israeli archaeologists, with every reason to fake evidence, chose their integrity and showed that they found nothing supporting the historical claims of the OT. Even if Yahweh were real, its immoral character ensures that I would never turn back to it.
@MoriyaMug There are passages which are the subject of much controversy for those who are interested and study these things, but for the average layman, these issues are more complex than the layman has knowledge or skills to debate. However, in spite of these controversies, one thing remains and that is the message that the Bible contains, because there simply aren't any 'contradictions' which change the message of the Bible. Any reliable biblical expert will verify that for you.
@faithbyloving Yes, I'm aware. It's the apologetics trying to explain away the unpleasant parts of the Bible, generally by claiming certain words don't mean what they mean, or that the story was "metaphorical," which is just a way of saying that the story didn't actually happen. So then, which story in the Bible is the first 100% literal and true one? I'll bet you think god gave you free will, too.
@MoriyaMug There are some types of writing in the Bible that are 'metaphorical' and others not. There are some parts which are BOTH! Unless otherwise indicated, we must take the writings literally and contextually, but having said that, there is much that is also at the same time, prophetic. Hasn't God given you free will? or did you give it to yourself?
@faithbyloving There is no such thing as free will. Everything has a causal relationship, including every single aspect of the human body. The Bible not only makes no mention of free will, it expressly denies it by stating that god knows the end and the beginning, and all in-between. That's determinism.
@MoriyaMug re "That's determinism" - no it isn't. That's your misunderstanding of scripture. It would be deterministic only if God directed the will to a predetermined outcome. In this case, God is not predetermining the outcome, but knows the outcome.
There is therefore freedom to choose, just as you have chosen to disregard God's call to you to receive his love for you - that is your choice, exercised as free will on your part. It is not however God's predetermined choice.
@faithbyloving Hahaha. Your ignorance of determinism is entertaining. Omniscience and omnipotence are mutually exclusive properties. I know you won't agree, because you don't understand it, and it doesn't agree with your narrow little viewpoint.
And "love me or burn forever" is not a choice, just like holding a gun to someone's head and forcing him/her to say "I love you" doesn't mean that it's sincere, or that s/he had any actual choice.
@MoriyaMug re "Your ignorance of determinism is entertaining" - really? As one who has studied it in university, I don't think so, my friend. Your presumption that knowing an outcome must imply determinism with respect to God, is based upon the false premise that if God is omniscient and knows all future, that he must also be directing it. While such a premise may be presumed in the natural material world, when we refer to God, we are referring to that which is beyond earthly logic
@faithbyloving I'm sure your philosophy 101 course taught you all about it. If a being knows the present, past and future state of all particles in the entire universe, then that fact defies free will. Everything is predetermined. It is the reading of a novel, and everything is simply acting out its part. It FEELS like free will, but it's not. Your refusal to accept this just shows you don't get it. If god is above earthly logic, why is he so driven by human emotions?
@MoriyaMug re "why is he so driven by human emotions?" - He isn't.
Adam & Eve had free will & made their choice. It was not God's choice. By choosing against God, they brought upon themselves their own demise, as does everyone who turns their back on God. God did not "predetermine" their choice to be "atheists" (thinking they could gain all knowledge if they just tried hard enough & be as gods). If God had not given free will, he would have predetermined their choice to be For him.
@faithbyloving Unless he wanted to exile them, and created them for the express purpose for doing so. Why create the serpent? If he did not create it, where did it come from? It'd mean the claim of his primacy is false. If he didn't know of it, he isn't omniscient. If he knew of it and chose not to intervene, he's evil. If he set it upon them, he's evil. If he knew of it and couldn't stop it, he isn't omnipotent. Welcome to theodicy. You've defined your god right out of existence.
@MoriyaMug re "doesn't agree with your narrow little viewpoint" - Yours is the "narrow view point" my friend, because your view is confined to the small window of your own experience, whereas mine is one of extended to include that which is unknown to you (though I say this with humility).
@faithbyloving HAH! Saying you're being humble is not the same thing as being humble. It's very prideful to boast of your own humility. In fact, you're being quite arrogant. You're already convinced you have all the answers, and nothing can change your mind. I'm open to changing my mind, if one brings falsifiable & testable evidence to bear. The Dead Sea Scrolls are not evidence, no matter how much you harp on the topic. Correlation is not causation.
@MoriyaMug re "I'm open to changing my mind, if one brings falsifiable & testable evidence to bear" - then may I suggest that you make that effort yourself. The Dead Sea Scrolls may be a starting point since their discovery blew away many people's preconceptions of "The Bible is untrue"; "The Bible has been changed"; "The Bible was invented after the events"; "The Bible places and people didn't exist", etc, etc..ad infinitum! Any excuse to dismiss the Bible and the messge of Christ!
@faithbyloving Pardon me. But you're the claimant. The onus is on you to convince the skeptics. I'm not going to help you plead your case. I don't need any "excuses" to dismiss the Bible. Its presentation of history doesn't jibe with recorded facts, archaeology, astronomy or anything else we've learned about the world. In fact, all evidence points to it (like all other holy books) being a load of old cobblers. Why should I give your beliefs any more credence than those of Muslims?
@MoriyaMug ...and I still await your 'explanation' as to how the Dead Sea Scroll lay hidden for 2000 yrs from shepherds until the United Nations Plan for Israel was declared in 1947, when the very same scrolls contained the prophecies of Israel's Return?
Again I say, if you cannot explain this fact, then you have a profoundly difficult unanswered question, which tests all boundaries of probability, beyond anything that is at all reasonable!
@faithbyloving Cognitive dissonance. So, I challenge you, where did god come from? If you cannot explain this, then you have a profoundly difficult unanswered question, which tests all bounds of probability, beyond anything that is reasonable. And "god always existed" or "god created himself" are special pleading.
@MoriyaMug re ""love me or burn forever" is not a choice" - but surely this departs from your hitherto "logical" thinking? Wouldn't it be more logical to say "Yes I love you darling" to a woman who was holding a gun to your head, than say "It's no choice & I hate you"?
Its just that you have departed from your claimed "logical" thinking & departed into a psychological childish foot stamping tantrum, where because you think you are threatened by Hell, that you resolutely oppose God!
@MoriyaMug re "Quirinian census didn't actually happen?" - there is no proof that it didn't happen...unless you can produce it? The fact that evidence of events has not yet come to light, does not mean they didn't happen and still less, 'prove' they didn't happen! Actually, Israeil archeology is consistently revealing the Bible accounts to be true, from the discovery of the city of Jericho to the tomb of Herod, to the ransack of the Temple!
@MoriyaMug Archaeologists do not 'fake' findings, they only report them. The only people who produce 'fakes' of anything are money making dealers etc, not archaeologists.
re "chose their integrity and showed that they found nothing supporting the historical claims of the OT" - you don't sound as though you know very much about Israeli archaeology my friend! There is a great deal that has been found to prove the OT accounts!!
@MoriyaMug That was the case in the 1800's when sceptics thought they could "prove" that the OT accounts were unfounded...however no more! Too much has been found already, more than can be described to you in a few comments! You will need to do your own study on this, to fill in this very big gap in your knowledge. However as you do so, you will find like me, that it is an exciting venture to learn about all the many items and locations which have been uncovered!
@MoriyaMug I am certain YHWH is real. Whether you turn back to it or not, will not change the prophetic fulfillment of the scriptures. They are already being fulfilled and the time clock of the remaining ones to be fulfilled is fast closing down.
@faithbyloving Like it or not, it IS just a book. You may have based your life around it, but that's only by cherry-picking the bits you like the sound of. Translated, edited, retranslated, re-edited, time and time again. It has its uses as a piece of literature, but it's just bad fiction. So please, keep the faith if you must, but do the rest of the world a favor, and keep it to yourself.
@MoriyaMug No it isn't "just a book". Explain to me, as I took the time and trouble earlier to show you, how a book that is "just a book" can accurately predict the return of Israel 2000 yrs later?...and explain the Dead Sea Scrolls timing of the discovery, just when Israel was returning? I notice you avoided commenting on that!
re "cherry-picking the bits you like the sound of" - no that isn't my practice.
@MoriyaMug re "Translated, edited, retranslated, re-edited, time and time again" - No, the Dead Sea Scrolls prove otherwise, they are exactly the same as the Bible today, so this theory is wrong.
re "keep the faith if you must, but do the rest of the world a favor, and keep it to yourself" - forgive me, but it is you that approached me, NOT I approaching you. If you are afraid of the discussion, why start it?
@MoriyaMug You can't apply your 21 Century libertarian values on an eastern culture of the first century. What point are you trying to make? If you are trying to complain that first century Christian women were lowly regarded compared to their male counterparts, on the basis of your 1 Timothy 2 passage, then in Bible study you should never take an isolated passage as the sum of Bible teaching. It isn't.
or Ephesians 5:33 "Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband" ? - Do you object to men loving their wives as well? Do you object to a man defending his wife & laying his life down for her, as the Bible teaches?
The apostle Paul taught submission as a principle of humility & oneness, on the one hand, while on the other hand true love of one's partner to be the highest God made them for
@MoriyaMug I am absolutely certain that the principles of the New Testament teaching are 'foreign' to you and indeed they relate to first century church. This doesn't make them bad and in truth, they are a higher moral expectation than most of the church aim to achieve today. Most of the church operates on egalitarian grounds that you are more familiar with today, reflecting modern western values. However, in my opinion, these fall short of the higher moral bar that Paul set.
@MoriyaMug It is not easy today to submit your own judgement to the judgement of your husband, in humility. Neither is it easy for a husband to love his wife above himself, as Ephesians 5:33 says "love his wife even as himself", since most men have their own agendas and most women today have their own agendas. These agendas in 21 century west, change over time and is the cause of divided interests which often lead to divorce and heartbroken children.
@MoriyaMug In fact there is a very strong case for saying that it is Because of the ignoring of these teachings that we live in a society of broken families and hurting divorced and lonely people! Even the church in general as I pointed out, has followed society's ignoring of these teachings, with the result that now in the church there are divorced and broken families in similar percentages to the society in which the churches are based.
@MoriyaMug This "excessive control" aspect has been noted to be a characteristic of some of the Churches initiated by Joseph Smith (Latter Day saints and mormons), as testified by some of the ex-members of these churches. This is quite different from mainstream churches, where members are responsible for their own decisions etc, as opposed to other people making decisions for them.
sorry there are so many ugly fucking trolls in the comments :/ Laci you are wonderful, and you're absolutely right about all that. sexism is just one of the reasons i hate religion and the church
@AHLPOR hah. sooo original. i'd like to pull your testicles out through your tiny balls and shove them up your asshole. How's that for original, fuckface?
Yeah, I always disagreed with that. I saw it in the Catholic church a lot. I used to be a Protestant though, before I became an atheist, and in that church we actually had a woman pastor. It was a church accepting of all people, gay, lesbian, etc. it didn't matter. I don't share their belief in God, but I did respect the way they didn't exclude people. Even as a non-believer, no one shunned me from the community or anything.
NICE TITS SWEETHEART. j/k they're AMAZING. back to the point, religion is better of a personal experience, e.g., the famous quote 'religion yes, clergy no'. Anyone who feels we need a bridge to the shapeless truths is misguided; probably out of tradition anyways so it's hard to blame them for their ignorance. Just keep the hope alive sunshine, things have gotten alot better since the 50s as far as equality's concerned. anyhoo, i pity those who dont see the potential in every soul alive
@paraplegicgiraffe Semantics. Trish is pointing out a distinction that most people haven't considered. Perhaps you have the right definition of "religious," but to most people, "religious" means associating with a church. However, if Trish says that reading the Bible will solve the problem of sexism, I call BS. The Bible is where the sexism comes from. "Religion" or not, the Christian God is a sexist. (And Jewish, and Muslim.)
@1SMF0F Historically you are wrong. Women were the ones who initially created the concept of religion and communicating with spirits or Gods. However, once men realized the power they could gain from cutting out the middle man, so to speak, they took control of religion and filtered through themselves.
In response to the video, cry me a fucking river. We are all oppressed, repressed and trampled on. Get the hell over it and move on or learn to make sandwiches.
I understand now why you turned "atheist." Your understanding of who God really is comes from a false religion(s). That's the problem with religion. All religions are filled with many deceptions and phony Christians. If you want to know God and how to be a genuine Christian, study His words and apply them in your life. Jesus is the way, the truth, and life for all those who believe in Him - not a religion.
Man made religion sexes against women because while men where out hunting and developing society, they had free time to think of ways to make life easier for society and themselves, man liked being waited on when they reached home from work to their wives, while the women were home raising, protecting, and feeding the children, in the past women were kept very busy and ignorant, and so religion was created to make man look superior and to keep women in the 2nd class servant mentality for yrs.
In the Protestant church we don't have sexism, we have equality. This is what I don't get about people in cults, they're too scared to leave and yet the women are being treated as second-class citizens and it's unfair. You were very brave and right to leave, well done!
It's men invented religion a long time ago when all people were primitive. Men were strong and smart, and women were weak and generally dumber. (i'm referring to civilizations where they restricted women from getting education). Men took charge and made religion and thought that was how it was going to be for ever, but in modern times women have gotten rights and gotten smarter.
I guarantee you if women were in charge they would be the Adam from adam and eve and men would be in the kitchen lol.
except god does not exist. as you can see equality can not be reached. i for one do not agree with total equality in all things. so i guess the way i look at it is if your a women, just embrace it and understand the world is not equal and probably never will be.
Men will always dominate when it comes to power and control of the masses of PEOPLE. Men control government, arm forces, churches, highest social and media functions. Women are becoming more and more on the surface involved in these areas as well, but actually seem to be used as pawns by men to outwardly show women PARTICIPATING to falsely give them a sense of equality when it has always been and always will be MAN controlling what MAN WANTS! MAN doesn't rely on the approval of a WOMAN.
@PrinceTian You make it sound like all men have a secret agenda and all get together to make woman slaves xD Look im a guy and im not in control of shit nor do i get together with every other man and make evil plans to take over woman!! Sex is meaningless its all about the individual person not their sex, or race.
Yes it isSweetnes7216, I believe any female is allowed to speak from their heart and mind. All Christians in Religion christianity, only men allowed to speak from the pulpit. I say it is discrimination= of females, particularly, religion, and the workforce as well. I respect gogreen's opinion. Such as even men are not speaking equality, but I do as a middle age Gentleman= women be treated with respect and dignity. So gogreen keep up of your bravery.
In my experience most churches in America are actually matriarchies masquerading as patriarchies. Mormonism, though is the real deal when it comes to the oppression of women. I've lived in Utah for almost four years now (hey, they offered me a great job and apparently I really will do anything for money) and I've concluded that Mormonism is pretty much Islam with minivans as far as women are concerned.
I've watched a couple of your later videos and during these last 3 years you seem to have lost a certain softness or innocence if you will (hate using that term) in favor of a slightly more aggressive style.
@TheUnchainedMind Okay, I admit I over-reacted. Long morning. I said that though because she wasn't even being aggressive - just using her brain, which many men mistake for as aggressiveness in women.
I love women that use their brain, but I also love women that mantain the softness she is showing in this video. My girlfriend for example has both, which makes me a lucky man.
@TheUnchainedMind Why should women maintain their softness for men's sake in the face of discrimination against them based on their gender? If women didn't speak up and lose that softness, nothing would have been accomplished... Wait, what am I saying? Most women aren't even born soft, they're just culturally conditioned to be that way.
They shouldn't mantain anything for anybody's sake. I never said that.
It is simply a matter of preference.
The assumption that one must be aggressive in order to get his/her point across is a misconception, it only makes you look weak. I've seen plenty of smart, outspoken women in my life and It's when they keep their calm that they are the most respected.
And men aren't born aggressive either for that matter, they're just as culturally conditioned as women are.
They shouldn't mantain anything for anybody's sake. I never said that.
It is simply a matter of preference.
The assumption that one must be aggressive in order to get his/her point across is a misconception, it only makes you look weak. I've seen plenty of smart, outspoken women in my life and It's when they keep their calm that they are the most respected.
And men aren't born aggressive either for that matter, they're just as culturally conditioned as women are.
You know I'm not condoning any specific religion, but I've lived all over the world and studied many types of religions. What you're describing is really very sad. Spirituality is personal. Women are prophets. It is only in Christianity that I first encountered this odd concept that you have to have an intermediary person to communicate with god and develop spirituality. In Islam and Buddhism you may receive guidance but everything else is between you and spirituality.
@lahgazi I don't know what kind of Christianity you're looking at, but the Christianity I know doesn't believe we need an "intermediary person" to communicate with God. If you're talking about Jesus, then it's still not correct, because Jesus is God.
@ZimZam205 Dude science and Jesus. Apples and oranges. I'm sorry, I know it's part of your belief and there are a lot unexplainable things in religion that simply require faith. I'm not Christian so I wouldn't know (this is NOT an invitation to explain anything to me) but I just find it utterly incomprehensible.
Gogreen18, religion and it's positions within were created when women were the protected. Religion has yet to be revised. In fact, if you read the bible, it has many things considered good aspects that if practiced in modern society would be looked down upon.
By the way, luv, if you're really up for equality, we should go on a date, and you can pay. :)
No, I don't actually think we should date, I'm just proving a point.
@MensRightsVideos Don't forget financial ruin, murder of men, demasculination of every male under the Feminarchy, and suicide of hundreds of male victims of feminism.
@MensRightsVideos I thought so. I hope everyone starts using it, because I can't think of a better label for this blatantly clear hatred-based movement aimed at destroying everything with something swinging between their legs.
God doesn't believe in equality. You would have known that if you had read your Bible. It has been almost 3 years, so maybe you have finally gotten around to reading it. And in reading the Bible, you will have learned your place in the hiearchy as a woman. I am curious if you have come to accept it?
I was raised in the mormon religion and I agree with you. From a reasoned perspective, especially from the outside, it is deeply sexist religion. I also agree with one point of the wild range of comments here, that many gender differences are natural. I think we should respect the natural differences while allowing each other to fully realize our potential as human beings. I think we too often extend the natural differences into places where they become discriminatory.
Girl, you are going to the wrong church. What else have you noticed? You can't be all this if you are less than 160cm tall? Go and be priest or whatever you want. What the hell you poor little complaining "angel".
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@gogreen18 No offence intended to you as I realise you probably have sentimental feelings about the Mormon upbringing you had, but the Mormon church is a cult. The book of mormon is the product of a false prophet. It is well known that the Mormon tradition has associations with paternalistic social expectations and unscriptural attitudes.
Re "God has more respect for men" - No, a thousand times, No! This is not the case whatsoever. The Bible says all are equal in the sight of God.
faithbyloving 3 weeks ago
@faithbyloving You might want to read your Bible more closely. 1 Timothy, for instance. And the only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of adherents.
MoriyaMug 3 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug Hi thanks for your message. I do read it extremely closely, to the extent of the original Hebrew and Greek. I would recommend it.
Regarding cults, no, according to the Oxford dictionary, a cult is notably "a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or as imposing EXCESSIVE CONTROL over members". This is also its usage in practice on a day to day basis. It's not defined by the number of adherents.
faithbyloving 3 weeks ago
@faithbyloving I'm aware of the dictionary definition. I'm talking about practical purposes. Your faith does exercise excessive control over you. It has caused you to suspend your ability to think rationally. You don't get much excessive than that.
MoriyaMug 3 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "It has caused you to suspend your ability to think rationally" - no it hasn't at all. Quite the opposite. If you receive Christ by revelation and are spiritually changed, you will find that far from having a reduced capacity to think and understand the world, you will have a greatly enhanced capacity for both! It is people who have not received Christ, that have the reduced capacity to think rationally. Only when they receive Christ, do their minds expand.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug It is both revealing & interesting, how your views are directly related to your misunderstanding of both the meaning & higher purpose of scripture. The higher purpose of scripture is to receive the best that God has for us by learning from his way, rather than creating the worst that we end up creating for ourselves and our world, because we have gone our "own way" with our own ideas.
Look around you, you won't have to look far to see the broken society you live in!
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Wow. Impressive rant. More impressive is that you've somehow divined the TRUE intention of the Bible, and thus you know which passages are relevant to today and which one's aren't. You've accomplished what millions before you have failed to do. Aren't you special? Logical fallacies.
If you really were thinking rationally, you would evaluate the Bible like any other book. But you won't, because you "know it's true" already. So much for critical thinking.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "Wow. Impressive rant" - thanks! I hope it helps you think through your prejudices, which colour your feelings against Bible. re "divined TRUE intention of the Bible" - yes that is correct. You don't though because you have not humbled yourself to the Lord, to ask Him what it means. You will only understand Bible by asking the One who inspired it.
re "You've accomplished what millions before you have failed to do" - I don't think so. Millions Have. What about you?
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "Aren't you special?" - No. Not at all, except that the Lord has forgiven me. He can forgive you too.
re "If you really were thinking rationally, you would evaluate the Bible like any other book" - no I wouldn't. It isn't like "any other book". What you call "critical thinking" when applied to the Bible is nothing more than trying to reduce the text to something which can be appropriated by thinking. It can't in that usual sense. It requires something very much more
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
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@MoriyaMug re "you "know it's true" already" - yes, I do. It is.
I know this from both study of the scriptures, the realisation that the prophecies are being fulfilled in our own time, today and because of my own experience of the words of the Bible being made true in my own life experience.
For instance, the prophecies in Isaiah, Zechariah, Jeremiah etc all predicted return of the nation of Israel. Yet Israel has been scattered worldwide for 2000 yrs. It is a unique occurrence
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug No other nation has ever returned to its homeland after 2000 yrs absence. This is undeniable and even you must admit that the liklihood of this occurring after 2000 yrs is extremely unlikely. Still less that it fulfills prophecies that were written hundreds of years before Israel was even dispersed. Yet Christ prophesied that the Great Temple built by Herod, would be utterly destroyed. It was by AD 70 and then followed the Jewish diaspora around the world.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug So friend, when you "evaluate the Bible" to use your expression, it is not simply a matter of approaching it "like any other book", because it isn't like "any other book". Other books don't predict events that occur hundreds of years later, exactly as prophesied. If you want to "evaluate" the Bible, you must do it, by understanding its contents and what learning the different types of writings it contains, which must be read according to the type of writing.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug Have you ever considered how the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered and why they had lain undiscovered in caves for 2000 yrs? Yet the were discovered in 1947, the year that Israel was to return to its homeland? Co-incidence? No. It is highly unlikely that it was a co-incidence. These scrolls had remained hidden for 2000 yrs and were only discovered when an arab boy looking for his sheep, threw a stone into a cave, which hit some pottery, raising investigation!
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug Yet, this very same event "COULD" have happened at any time during the preceding 2000 yrs! That's a long time for such a thing to wait to happen, but more intruiging is the contents of the Scrolls hoard, which confirmed Israel's heritage to the land and that the manuscripts of the Bible, had been faithfully copied for a further 1000 yrs backwards in time.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug Co-incidence? Highly unlikely! In 1948 the year later Israel declared its sovereignty, and fulfilled the prophesies in the Scroll of Isaiah and others, found in the Dead Sea Scrolls themselves!
Wake up! There is a great deal more that you need to grasp!
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug Incidently, are you aware of the fact that when the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in 1947, this was just ONE DAY out of a potential 730000 days, over 2000 yrs! Yet it had to wait to be discovered for approx 730000 days, in the very year that plans were made to re-establish the Israel that the prophetic manuscripts in the hoard predicted?? Anyone that claims that is mere co-incidence, is pushing the boundaries of probability, into a state of mental delusion! Wake up!
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Were you aware that the Genesis account of creation is shockingly similar to that of the Egyptians? Or that Moses is based on the Sumerian myth of Misis? Or that the story of Noah is wholesale copied from Utnapishtim, from the Epic of Gilgamesh (something for which there IS physical proof of authorship, btw). Or that the whole of the Old Testament is historically inaccurate? Telling me to "wake up" is no more persuasive than telling me I'm risking my soul.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug Yes, there are similar accounts such as the Epic of Gilgamesh (Babylonian) etc, all pointing to a common event, which makes it very interesting.
No, Moses is not based upon Sumerian writings. re "Or that the story of Noah is wholesale copied" - yes, the common accounts lead to an event which is corroborrated!
re "the whole of the Old Testament is historically inaccurate" - you would have to provide irrefutable evidence for such a claim.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving "No, it's not" is not an argument, and Gilgamesh is not a "common account." It's the same story with a few details changed. I'm not the one claiming that the Bible is historical. There is no factual evidence in support of it. If you want to talk about evidence, let's discuss onus probandi, and why it's solely on you, as the theist. Tell me your purely empirical reason for belief, and don't delve into logical fallacies. This I would love to see.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "Gilgamesh is not a "common account." It's the same story" - by definition, you are contradicting yourself. A common account = the same story. I have no doubt that it has a historical basis at some point in time, otherwise how would you explain that commonalities of the story across the whole region?
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving You're splitting hairs. The Noah story is a plagiarism of a story from a civilization that was busy undergoing the agricultural revolution while Yahweh was supposedly creating the world. And flood myths are common because flooding is common, and people didn't know why it happened. Anything they didn't understand was attributed to the divine. There's no evidence that a global flood ever happened.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug No "splitting hairs" friend. YHWH wasn't creating the world when it was already created, because there is no date for creation. No such date or time is specified in the Bible whatsoever.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving If you think I'm your friend, then you obviously don't recognize an enemy when you see or hear one.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "If you think I'm your friend, then you obviously don't recognize an enemy when you see or hear one" - that's up to you. However, it reveals the result of being an enemy against God - it results in being enemies with your fellow man! It rather proves my point, my friend.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving You, as a person, may be perfectly nice. I bear you no personal ill will. You are espousing and promoting an evil doctrine of willful ignorance and mental slavery, however, and that makes you my enemy for as long as you continue to do so.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "promoting an evil doctrine of willful ignorance and mental slavery" - not at all. This applies to your position, not mine.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Roughly translated, "I know you are but what am I?" Do you really regard this schoolyard gainsaying as legitimate debate? Do you consider it as anything close to mature? If so, then I feel sorry for you.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "flood myths are common" - where are they "common"? - you mean in the Middle East? That is clearly because they refer to a flood which occurred in land at some pre-history time. The commonality of these flood accounts points to the common experience of the people of the Middle East at some time in history.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Bzzzt. Unprovable assertion + false dichotomy. The common nature of the flood myth is not evidence. You apparently don't know what evidence is, either.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug First you make the unfounded presumption that the Flood was a "myth".
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug Second you allege that common accounts of a Flood cannot be evidence! On what basis cannot these accounts be evidence? (perhaps because you have prejudice against historical peoples, as if they were somehow less able or reliable than modern peoples? Whilst there are known mythologies from the ancient world, the Flood has never been substantiated as one of these! It must therefore be considered evidence, until evidence to the contrary has been proven)
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Anecdotes are not empirical evidence, no matter how many you get or how well-attested they are. (For an example, research the miracle at Fatima.) They are precisely NOT how one reaches the truth. The claim that the flood really happened is the one that bears the burden of proof, and that burden has not been sufficiently dealt with. As the skeptic, the burden of proof is not on me or anyone else, except for the claimant.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug Anecdote or not, I have asked you to explain it. Do you admit that you fail to explain how this exceptional and astonishing fact could happen? re "research the miracle at Fatima" - this is no comparison whatsoever. The facts are presented to you and they are indisputable. You cannot deny these facts, because they demonstrably exist. If you cannot explain them, then you have a problem indeed!
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Again, why should I bother trying to justify your claims? That is your job. Meet the burden of proof and we'll talk. The prophecies are vague enough to allow you to shoehorn modern events to suit; people do the same thing with any prophecies. It isn't proof of prescience. It's no more viable than someone pointing out instances where a horoscope's prediction was on target. Statistically, it's bound to happen. Insanely improbable events actually happen all the time.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug Just answer the question. I'm not interested in persuing other questions until you have answered mine.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Of course not. Your question (which I've already answered) is idiotic and meaningless, while you're completely disregarding everything that might actually challenge your faith, and deliberately misinterpreting plain English to dodge the issue. Typical Christian. Cognitive dissonance, intellectual dishonesty and moving the goalposts. I'm done with you. You're obviously completely brainwashed.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug Of course "you're done with me" friend - you can't answer my question or show the integrity or honesty to address it with any sincerity. I'm not suprised, because the question itself, challenges the very core of your own beliefs! This is why you prefer not to consider its very serious implications!
Goodbye, then. Take care my friend and may you reconsider your position privately.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving "I know you are but what am I." So very immature. You actually think you've won the argument. To borrow a phrase... discussing Christianity with Christians is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon — it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory. Don't worry; if I "reconsider my position," it won't be because of inept debaters like you.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug There isn't any "winner" of an argument here. I'm not interested in "winning an argument". That is not the point of my having spent time with you and I hope that it wasn't the point that you had in mind! "Winning arguments" is not the same as discovering truth. One may be adept at presenting a case either way, but still not know the truth or whole truth. I don't regard myself to have won anything, but I have responded to your challenge.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug If you consider me "inept", then forgive me. You may well be a far better debater than I am and indeed, I hope you are, though this is of little interest to me. What concerns me is that the lies and misrepresentation that are being thrown at the Bible, Christians and the church, must themselves be challenged and corrected.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug Most of it is through ignorance of the Christian faith and the scriptures, which are both worthy of serious consideration. They are not the product of armchair speculators as today's youtubers are - they were born through devout and faithful martyrs, whose blood was shed only because they believed what they said and knew it to be true in their own lives. Take care my friend and God bless you and all your family in the name of Yeshua.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug I leave you with one last thought - watch the so called Arab spring and developments of the muslim nations surrounding Israel; the growth and growing unity of the Muslim Brotherhood and its associated subgroups; the allegiances between Syria and Russia; the opposition of China to UN resolutions; the stockpile of Chemical and other weapons in Syria and its near proximity to Israel's borders...
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug
Consider that in Isaiah, Zechariah, Jeremiah, Daniel, etc these prophets, besides describing Jews being brought to Israel by gentiles, also foretell the joining of these muslim nations which are actually listed by name in their prophecies, as nations joining together to attack Israel...when this happens or begins, don't say I didn't warn you.
Goodbye.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
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@MoriyaMug Here is the question again: How did the Dead Sea Scroll lay hidden for 2000 yrs from shepherds until the United Nations Plan for Israel was declared in 1947, when the very same scrolls contained the prophecies of Israel's Return?
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug And secondly, quote me any other nation which has been absent for thousands of years and then returned according to that nation's own prophecies? Name just one??..If you can that is! Of course the answer is no, you can't, because naturally it doesn't happen. So why has it happened in Israel's case?
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug And forget all your mumbo jumbo about horoscopes, vagaries.
"Statistically, it's bound to happen" - Proove it? This is simply not the case! If it is, then name me one other similar nation?...no?....then it seems like your "statistics" are failing doesn't it?
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
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@MoriyaMug re "apparently don't know what evidence is, either" - neither do you apparently.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "There's no evidence that a global flood ever happened" - I don't think there was a global flood at least not in the Bible. I believe it was a localised flood to the Middle East. This is why the "flood myths" you speak of are localised to the Middle East.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Hahaha. Funny, that's not what the Bible says. I suppose that the will of god only applied to that little region? I guess god didn't have any trouble with the civilizations that weren't in the Middle East. Maybe a wall of divine power kept the waters contained, since it covered the mountains (Gen 7:20). Sure must've sucked to be one of his "chosen people." More so than usual, I mean. He never was very kind to them on the best of days.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "the will of god only applied to that little region?" - No, but the chosen nation/people are the means by which God has communicated to man for the purpose of restoring man to the peace which man turned away from and choosing instead conflict with God and his fellow man.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug Biblically, the term "mountains" means kingdoms, but in this particular case, the mountains will have been local ones. We may never know the exact details of this account, because it is otherwise lost in history, so endless speculation in this regard is not profitable. Rather it is more meaningful to understand the message given in this, that man chose his own way and ended up creating evil by his disobedience.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Basic math rules out the flood. There would be TRILLIONS of times more water than there is in the world right now (in any form) to cover the highest mountains. And where did all this water go? The amount of energy required to evaporate it and destabilize it into its component atoms would be sufficient to incinerate the planet. You really should study some basic physics... and anthropology.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "Basic math rules out the flood" - not at all. You are interpeting the scripture to mean literally the "whole world flooded". I don't interpret the scripture that way at all. It means the "then known world", which though considerable, was centered around the Middle East.
Your allusions to science to try to disprove this are false.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "empirical reason for belief" - I've already given you one: Israel's prophetic fulfillment. Please explain why this is not proof of the validity of the scriptures, since this constitutes a VERY LARGE part of the prophecies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Zephaniah, Daniel etc.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug This fulfillment is an undeniable empirical evidence, unless you wish to "delve into logical fallacies" of how it can't be? I too would love to see you "explain it away".
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Ohhh, I see. You don't actually know what "empirical" means. Okay, that clears this whole matter up. Claims about the Dead Sea Scrolls and fulfilled prophecies are unsubstantiated and purely interpretational. But even if the Bible said unambiguously that the land of Israel would be restored at this time, etc., this would not be proof. If that's your basis, what'll happen to your belief when they're discredited?
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "Claims about the Dead Sea Scrolls and fulfilled prophecies are unsubstantiated and purely interpretational" - no they're not. You can "interpret" this how you like, but when it comes to the facts, it comes down to this:
1) Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Zehaniah, Hosea, Zechariah, all prophesied both
i) The Dispersal of the Jews around the world
ii) The Return of the Jews to Israel to be a nation again
2) These prophecies were fulfilled in 1948 and 1967.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Again, none of this is evidence. It could all be perfectly accurate, and still prove nothing. And yet again, "No they're not" is not an argument. It may be sufficient to satisfy your incurious mind, but the vagaries of prophecy are ridiculous. Give me repeatable, testable, falsifiable evidence that your god even exists, and then we'll talk. Until then, I'm done with you. It's past 6pm and I have better ways to spend my evening.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug the vagaries of prophecy are ridiculous - vagaries might be, but proven prophecies are never. A prophecy is proven when it is fulfilled. These prophecies detailing the return of Israel are both fulfilled and proven.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug ..and furthermore, explain if you will, why the Dead Sea Scrolls lay hidden for 2000 yrs, to every arab shepherd, until 1947, the year of the UN Partition Plan of Palestine/Israel? When in these scrolls are the vary prophecies which tell of Israel's return from the diaspora! I await your excuses.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug Regardless of any "interpretation", either the prophecies happened or they did not. In this case they did. Yes it is proof. This would not happen at all, if God had not commanded it. There will be no "discredit". There will be war against Israel, this is prophesied and it won't be long before it happens.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug The political pieces are already being forged within the "Arab Spring", with the Islamic Brotherhood forging pan Islamic alliances. Did you think all those muslim nations had demonstrations by accident? No, Psalm 84 tells us that there will be a confederacy of 10 nations attacking Israel. This is in the making.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving How about the contradictions throughout the Bible? Or its inherent sexism? The fact that the Quirinian census didn't actually happen? The times not matching up with history? Even Israeli archaeologists, with every reason to fake evidence, chose their integrity and showed that they found nothing supporting the historical claims of the OT. Even if Yahweh were real, its immoral character ensures that I would never turn back to it.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug There are passages which are the subject of much controversy for those who are interested and study these things, but for the average layman, these issues are more complex than the layman has knowledge or skills to debate. However, in spite of these controversies, one thing remains and that is the message that the Bible contains, because there simply aren't any 'contradictions' which change the message of the Bible. Any reliable biblical expert will verify that for you.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Yes, I'm aware. It's the apologetics trying to explain away the unpleasant parts of the Bible, generally by claiming certain words don't mean what they mean, or that the story was "metaphorical," which is just a way of saying that the story didn't actually happen. So then, which story in the Bible is the first 100% literal and true one? I'll bet you think god gave you free will, too.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug There are some types of writing in the Bible that are 'metaphorical' and others not. There are some parts which are BOTH! Unless otherwise indicated, we must take the writings literally and contextually, but having said that, there is much that is also at the same time, prophetic. Hasn't God given you free will? or did you give it to yourself?
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving There is no such thing as free will. Everything has a causal relationship, including every single aspect of the human body. The Bible not only makes no mention of free will, it expressly denies it by stating that god knows the end and the beginning, and all in-between. That's determinism.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "That's determinism" - no it isn't. That's your misunderstanding of scripture. It would be deterministic only if God directed the will to a predetermined outcome. In this case, God is not predetermining the outcome, but knows the outcome.
There is therefore freedom to choose, just as you have chosen to disregard God's call to you to receive his love for you - that is your choice, exercised as free will on your part. It is not however God's predetermined choice.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Hahaha. Your ignorance of determinism is entertaining. Omniscience and omnipotence are mutually exclusive properties. I know you won't agree, because you don't understand it, and it doesn't agree with your narrow little viewpoint.
And "love me or burn forever" is not a choice, just like holding a gun to someone's head and forcing him/her to say "I love you" doesn't mean that it's sincere, or that s/he had any actual choice.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "Your ignorance of determinism is entertaining" - really? As one who has studied it in university, I don't think so, my friend. Your presumption that knowing an outcome must imply determinism with respect to God, is based upon the false premise that if God is omniscient and knows all future, that he must also be directing it. While such a premise may be presumed in the natural material world, when we refer to God, we are referring to that which is beyond earthly logic
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving I'm sure your philosophy 101 course taught you all about it. If a being knows the present, past and future state of all particles in the entire universe, then that fact defies free will. Everything is predetermined. It is the reading of a novel, and everything is simply acting out its part. It FEELS like free will, but it's not. Your refusal to accept this just shows you don't get it. If god is above earthly logic, why is he so driven by human emotions?
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "why is he so driven by human emotions?" - He isn't.
Adam & Eve had free will & made their choice. It was not God's choice. By choosing against God, they brought upon themselves their own demise, as does everyone who turns their back on God. God did not "predetermine" their choice to be "atheists" (thinking they could gain all knowledge if they just tried hard enough & be as gods). If God had not given free will, he would have predetermined their choice to be For him.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Unless he wanted to exile them, and created them for the express purpose for doing so. Why create the serpent? If he did not create it, where did it come from? It'd mean the claim of his primacy is false. If he didn't know of it, he isn't omniscient. If he knew of it and chose not to intervene, he's evil. If he set it upon them, he's evil. If he knew of it and couldn't stop it, he isn't omnipotent. Welcome to theodicy. You've defined your god right out of existence.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "doesn't agree with your narrow little viewpoint" - Yours is the "narrow view point" my friend, because your view is confined to the small window of your own experience, whereas mine is one of extended to include that which is unknown to you (though I say this with humility).
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving HAH! Saying you're being humble is not the same thing as being humble. It's very prideful to boast of your own humility. In fact, you're being quite arrogant. You're already convinced you have all the answers, and nothing can change your mind. I'm open to changing my mind, if one brings falsifiable & testable evidence to bear. The Dead Sea Scrolls are not evidence, no matter how much you harp on the topic. Correlation is not causation.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "I'm open to changing my mind, if one brings falsifiable & testable evidence to bear" - then may I suggest that you make that effort yourself. The Dead Sea Scrolls may be a starting point since their discovery blew away many people's preconceptions of "The Bible is untrue"; "The Bible has been changed"; "The Bible was invented after the events"; "The Bible places and people didn't exist", etc, etc..ad infinitum! Any excuse to dismiss the Bible and the messge of Christ!
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Pardon me. But you're the claimant. The onus is on you to convince the skeptics. I'm not going to help you plead your case. I don't need any "excuses" to dismiss the Bible. Its presentation of history doesn't jibe with recorded facts, archaeology, astronomy or anything else we've learned about the world. In fact, all evidence points to it (like all other holy books) being a load of old cobblers. Why should I give your beliefs any more credence than those of Muslims?
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug ...and I still await your 'explanation' as to how the Dead Sea Scroll lay hidden for 2000 yrs from shepherds until the United Nations Plan for Israel was declared in 1947, when the very same scrolls contained the prophecies of Israel's Return?
Again I say, if you cannot explain this fact, then you have a profoundly difficult unanswered question, which tests all boundaries of probability, beyond anything that is at all reasonable!
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Cognitive dissonance. So, I challenge you, where did god come from? If you cannot explain this, then you have a profoundly difficult unanswered question, which tests all bounds of probability, beyond anything that is reasonable. And "god always existed" or "god created himself" are special pleading.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
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@MoriyaMug re ""love me or burn forever" is not a choice" - but surely this departs from your hitherto "logical" thinking? Wouldn't it be more logical to say "Yes I love you darling" to a woman who was holding a gun to your head, than say "It's no choice & I hate you"?
Its just that you have departed from your claimed "logical" thinking & departed into a psychological childish foot stamping tantrum, where because you think you are threatened by Hell, that you resolutely oppose God!
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
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@MoriyaMug re "Quirinian census didn't actually happen?" - there is no proof that it didn't happen...unless you can produce it? The fact that evidence of events has not yet come to light, does not mean they didn't happen and still less, 'prove' they didn't happen! Actually, Israeil archeology is consistently revealing the Bible accounts to be true, from the discovery of the city of Jericho to the tomb of Herod, to the ransack of the Temple!
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug Archaeologists do not 'fake' findings, they only report them. The only people who produce 'fakes' of anything are money making dealers etc, not archaeologists.
re "chose their integrity and showed that they found nothing supporting the historical claims of the OT" - you don't sound as though you know very much about Israeli archaeology my friend! There is a great deal that has been found to prove the OT accounts!!
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug That was the case in the 1800's when sceptics thought they could "prove" that the OT accounts were unfounded...however no more! Too much has been found already, more than can be described to you in a few comments! You will need to do your own study on this, to fill in this very big gap in your knowledge. However as you do so, you will find like me, that it is an exciting venture to learn about all the many items and locations which have been uncovered!
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug I am certain YHWH is real. Whether you turn back to it or not, will not change the prophetic fulfillment of the scriptures. They are already being fulfilled and the time clock of the remaining ones to be fulfilled is fast closing down.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Like it or not, it IS just a book. You may have based your life around it, but that's only by cherry-picking the bits you like the sound of. Translated, edited, retranslated, re-edited, time and time again. It has its uses as a piece of literature, but it's just bad fiction. So please, keep the faith if you must, but do the rest of the world a favor, and keep it to yourself.
MoriyaMug 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug No it isn't "just a book". Explain to me, as I took the time and trouble earlier to show you, how a book that is "just a book" can accurately predict the return of Israel 2000 yrs later?...and explain the Dead Sea Scrolls timing of the discovery, just when Israel was returning? I notice you avoided commenting on that!
re "cherry-picking the bits you like the sound of" - no that isn't my practice.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug re "Translated, edited, retranslated, re-edited, time and time again" - No, the Dead Sea Scrolls prove otherwise, they are exactly the same as the Bible today, so this theory is wrong.
re "keep the faith if you must, but do the rest of the world a favor, and keep it to yourself" - forgive me, but it is you that approached me, NOT I approaching you. If you are afraid of the discussion, why start it?
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@faithbyloving Oh, and try reading 1 Timothy 2.
Yep... lots of equal treatment for women there.
MoriyaMug 3 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug You can't apply your 21 Century libertarian values on an eastern culture of the first century. What point are you trying to make? If you are trying to complain that first century Christian women were lowly regarded compared to their male counterparts, on the basis of your 1 Timothy 2 passage, then in Bible study you should never take an isolated passage as the sum of Bible teaching. It isn't.
faithbyloving 3 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug Did you also complain about Ephesians 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it" ?
or Ephesians 5:28-29 "So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church" ?
faithbyloving 3 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug
or Ephesians 5:33 "Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband" ? - Do you object to men loving their wives as well? Do you object to a man defending his wife & laying his life down for her, as the Bible teaches?
The apostle Paul taught submission as a principle of humility & oneness, on the one hand, while on the other hand true love of one's partner to be the highest God made them for
faithbyloving 3 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug I am absolutely certain that the principles of the New Testament teaching are 'foreign' to you and indeed they relate to first century church. This doesn't make them bad and in truth, they are a higher moral expectation than most of the church aim to achieve today. Most of the church operates on egalitarian grounds that you are more familiar with today, reflecting modern western values. However, in my opinion, these fall short of the higher moral bar that Paul set.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug It is not easy today to submit your own judgement to the judgement of your husband, in humility. Neither is it easy for a husband to love his wife above himself, as Ephesians 5:33 says "love his wife even as himself", since most men have their own agendas and most women today have their own agendas. These agendas in 21 century west, change over time and is the cause of divided interests which often lead to divorce and heartbroken children.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug In fact there is a very strong case for saying that it is Because of the ignoring of these teachings that we live in a society of broken families and hurting divorced and lonely people! Even the church in general as I pointed out, has followed society's ignoring of these teachings, with the result that now in the church there are divorced and broken families in similar percentages to the society in which the churches are based.
faithbyloving 2 weeks ago
@MoriyaMug This "excessive control" aspect has been noted to be a characteristic of some of the Churches initiated by Joseph Smith (Latter Day saints and mormons), as testified by some of the ex-members of these churches. This is quite different from mainstream churches, where members are responsible for their own decisions etc, as opposed to other people making decisions for them.
faithbyloving 3 weeks ago
Women are only good for three things:
1. Cooking
2. Cleaning
3. Sex
AverageJoe902 3 weeks ago 3
If God was real, and if he was a loving god, he would treat everyone equal. but he doesn't.
AutoTerminator 3 weeks ago
sorry there are so many ugly fucking trolls in the comments :/ Laci you are wonderful, and you're absolutely right about all that. sexism is just one of the reasons i hate religion and the church
rayechayelle1 3 weeks ago
yOU make some valid points that force us to think. Thank you :)
joseph
Satori1800 4 weeks ago
LIFE will become pretty lonely if you don't have kids honey......believe me.
mrdarrickevenson 1 month ago
JOIN the Community of Christ and as a woman you can be a deacon priest teacher elder high priest apostle and , yes, even the Prophet.
mrdarrickevenson 1 month ago
Bitches like you need to shut the fuck up and get back in the kitchen.
AHLPOR 1 month ago
@AHLPOR hah. sooo original. i'd like to pull your testicles out through your tiny balls and shove them up your asshole. How's that for original, fuckface?
SoDakSunshine 1 month ago
@SoDakSunshine Back in the good Ole days you would be beaten shitless for acting the way you do.
AHLPOR 3 weeks ago
Yeah, I always disagreed with that. I saw it in the Catholic church a lot. I used to be a Protestant though, before I became an atheist, and in that church we actually had a woman pastor. It was a church accepting of all people, gay, lesbian, etc. it didn't matter. I don't share their belief in God, but I did respect the way they didn't exclude people. Even as a non-believer, no one shunned me from the community or anything.
ChaoticReverie1 1 month ago
all you cunts can lick my pussy
MsRisingPhoenixfull 1 month ago
@MsRisingPhoenixfull Only if you blow me off first you filthy little slut.
Maca2199 1 month ago
It's obviously because women don't have souls.
Maca2199 1 month ago
NICE TITS SWEETHEART. j/k they're AMAZING. back to the point, religion is better of a personal experience, e.g., the famous quote 'religion yes, clergy no'. Anyone who feels we need a bridge to the shapeless truths is misguided; probably out of tradition anyways so it's hard to blame them for their ignorance. Just keep the hope alive sunshine, things have gotten alot better since the 50s as far as equality's concerned. anyhoo, i pity those who dont see the potential in every soul alive
janitarjanitar 1 month ago
Shows cleavage on purpose because it's conventional wisdom that that arouses men. Bitches about sexism and being treated like an object. Truth4Life
PoopShitMario 1 month ago
Why do you ask what religion? I am a follower of Jesus Christ and I believe the Holy Bible is true. I am not religious .
Trishasylvera 1 month ago
@Trishasylvera that means you're religious.
paraplegicgiraffe 1 month ago
@paraplegicgiraffe Semantics. Trish is pointing out a distinction that most people haven't considered. Perhaps you have the right definition of "religious," but to most people, "religious" means associating with a church. However, if Trish says that reading the Bible will solve the problem of sexism, I call BS. The Bible is where the sexism comes from. "Religion" or not, the Christian God is a sexist. (And Jewish, and Muslim.)
fuggimotto 1 month ago
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@1SMF0F Historically you are wrong. Women were the ones who initially created the concept of religion and communicating with spirits or Gods. However, once men realized the power they could gain from cutting out the middle man, so to speak, they took control of religion and filtered through themselves.
In response to the video, cry me a fucking river. We are all oppressed, repressed and trampled on. Get the hell over it and move on or learn to make sandwiches.
btlincec1 1 month ago
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btlincec1 1 month ago
I understand now why you turned "atheist." Your understanding of who God really is comes from a false religion(s). That's the problem with religion. All religions are filled with many deceptions and phony Christians. If you want to know God and how to be a genuine Christian, study His words and apply them in your life. Jesus is the way, the truth, and life for all those who believe in Him - not a religion.
Trishasylvera 2 months ago
@Trishasylvera What religion are you?
Videos5197 1 month ago
cool kitchen goggles
sdfgsdfghjkl 2 months ago
holy shit! that's the most tumescence in the shortest amount of time I've gotten in a month!
God bless you you sweet sweet thang!
PorkFrog 2 months ago
Man made religion sexes against women because while men where out hunting and developing society, they had free time to think of ways to make life easier for society and themselves, man liked being waited on when they reached home from work to their wives, while the women were home raising, protecting, and feeding the children, in the past women were kept very busy and ignorant, and so religion was created to make man look superior and to keep women in the 2nd class servant mentality for yrs.
curtis8315 2 months ago
In the Protestant church we don't have sexism, we have equality. This is what I don't get about people in cults, they're too scared to leave and yet the women are being treated as second-class citizens and it's unfair. You were very brave and right to leave, well done!
beckybookreviews 3 months ago
It's men invented religion a long time ago when all people were primitive. Men were strong and smart, and women were weak and generally dumber. (i'm referring to civilizations where they restricted women from getting education). Men took charge and made religion and thought that was how it was going to be for ever, but in modern times women have gotten rights and gotten smarter.
I guarantee you if women were in charge they would be the Adam from adam and eve and men would be in the kitchen lol.
1SMF0F 4 months ago
except god does not exist. as you can see equality can not be reached. i for one do not agree with total equality in all things. so i guess the way i look at it is if your a women, just embrace it and understand the world is not equal and probably never will be.
KHhockey6 4 months ago
Men will always dominate when it comes to power and control of the masses of PEOPLE. Men control government, arm forces, churches, highest social and media functions. Women are becoming more and more on the surface involved in these areas as well, but actually seem to be used as pawns by men to outwardly show women PARTICIPATING to falsely give them a sense of equality when it has always been and always will be MAN controlling what MAN WANTS! MAN doesn't rely on the approval of a WOMAN.
PrinceTian 4 months ago
@PrinceTian You make it sound like all men have a secret agenda and all get together to make woman slaves xD Look im a guy and im not in control of shit nor do i get together with every other man and make evil plans to take over woman!! Sex is meaningless its all about the individual person not their sex, or race.
tallyhoman911 3 months ago
Yes it isSweetnes7216, I believe any female is allowed to speak from their heart and mind. All Christians in Religion christianity, only men allowed to speak from the pulpit. I say it is discrimination= of females, particularly, religion, and the workforce as well. I respect gogreen's opinion. Such as even men are not speaking equality, but I do as a middle age Gentleman= women be treated with respect and dignity. So gogreen keep up of your bravery.
sweetness7216 4 months ago
I can't tell if you're 12 or 27...
konzwambii 4 months ago
Take your time growing up kiddo, world is so much complex than you still think.
tourettetruthserum 4 months ago
In my experience most churches in America are actually matriarchies masquerading as patriarchies. Mormonism, though is the real deal when it comes to the oppression of women. I've lived in Utah for almost four years now (hey, they offered me a great job and apparently I really will do anything for money) and I've concluded that Mormonism is pretty much Islam with minivans as far as women are concerned.
gefan3 5 months ago
you would look good with ur mouth on my prnis
ianalurmom 5 months ago
I've watched a couple of your later videos and during these last 3 years you seem to have lost a certain softness or innocence if you will (hate using that term) in favor of a slightly more aggressive style.
Too bad :)
TheUnchainedMind 5 months ago
@TheUnchainedMind Wow. Shut the fuck up you piece of shit.
m3rmaidbones 5 months ago
@m3rmaidbones
Ok, and what was that for ?
I hope your profile is lying because I would hate to think that a 21 year old girl can behave like a 13 year old boy...
TheUnchainedMind 5 months ago
@TheUnchainedMind Okay, I admit I over-reacted. Long morning. I said that though because she wasn't even being aggressive - just using her brain, which many men mistake for as aggressiveness in women.
m3rmaidbones 5 months ago
@m3rmaidbones
I love women that use their brain, but I also love women that mantain the softness she is showing in this video. My girlfriend for example has both, which makes me a lucky man.
TheUnchainedMind 5 months ago
@TheUnchainedMind Why should women maintain their softness for men's sake in the face of discrimination against them based on their gender? If women didn't speak up and lose that softness, nothing would have been accomplished... Wait, what am I saying? Most women aren't even born soft, they're just culturally conditioned to be that way.
m3rmaidbones 5 months ago
@m3rmaidbones
They shouldn't mantain anything for anybody's sake. I never said that.
It is simply a matter of preference.
The assumption that one must be aggressive in order to get his/her point across is a misconception, it only makes you look weak. I've seen plenty of smart, outspoken women in my life and It's when they keep their calm that they are the most respected.
And men aren't born aggressive either for that matter, they're just as culturally conditioned as women are.
TheUnchainedMind 5 months ago
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@m3rmaidbones
@m3rmaidbones
They shouldn't mantain anything for anybody's sake. I never said that.
It is simply a matter of preference.
The assumption that one must be aggressive in order to get his/her point across is a misconception, it only makes you look weak. I've seen plenty of smart, outspoken women in my life and It's when they keep their calm that they are the most respected.
And men aren't born aggressive either for that matter, they're just as culturally conditioned as women are.
TheUnchainedMind 5 months ago
Uh, It's all made up. Make you're own church.
kozzy18 5 months ago
ohhh. be aware of the dangerous penises... coming to get ur sexist ass
TommyGus 5 months ago
Blow me?
vBDKv 5 months ago
You know I'm not condoning any specific religion, but I've lived all over the world and studied many types of religions. What you're describing is really very sad. Spirituality is personal. Women are prophets. It is only in Christianity that I first encountered this odd concept that you have to have an intermediary person to communicate with god and develop spirituality. In Islam and Buddhism you may receive guidance but everything else is between you and spirituality.
lahgazi 6 months ago
@lahgazi I don't know what kind of Christianity you're looking at, but the Christianity I know doesn't believe we need an "intermediary person" to communicate with God. If you're talking about Jesus, then it's still not correct, because Jesus is God.
ZimZam205 5 months ago
@ZimZam205 how can a man be God?
lahgazi 5 months ago
@lahgazi If I could answer that, then I could also tell you how gravity and magnetism works. I don't know, it just is.
ZimZam205 5 months ago
@ZimZam205 Dude science and Jesus. Apples and oranges. I'm sorry, I know it's part of your belief and there are a lot unexplainable things in religion that simply require faith. I'm not Christian so I wouldn't know (this is NOT an invitation to explain anything to me) but I just find it utterly incomprehensible.
lahgazi 5 months ago
Can I be a barefoot man in the kitchen cooking for my business savvy wife? That sounds like a good deal
MacabreManifesto 6 months ago
Dont worry its ok I would definately put her up on the stand and bone the shit out of her :P...
brentmuv 6 months ago
Gogreen18, religion and it's positions within were created when women were the protected. Religion has yet to be revised. In fact, if you read the bible, it has many things considered good aspects that if practiced in modern society would be looked down upon.
By the way, luv, if you're really up for equality, we should go on a date, and you can pay. :)
No, I don't actually think we should date, I'm just proving a point.
PeterBainner 6 months ago
God is not a "Feminist". The real world cannot survive on feminism. Only with men can you guarantee a strong, moral society.
With feminism, the only thing you guarantee is divorce, abortion, and single motherhood.
MensRightsVideos 6 months ago
@MensRightsVideos Don't forget financial ruin, murder of men, demasculination of every male under the Feminarchy, and suicide of hundreds of male victims of feminism.
PeterBainner 6 months ago
@PeterBainner All very good points. "Feminarchy"...great word for it.
MensRightsVideos 6 months ago
@MensRightsVideos I thought so. I hope everyone starts using it, because I can't think of a better label for this blatantly clear hatred-based movement aimed at destroying everything with something swinging between their legs.
PeterBainner 6 months ago
God doesn't believe in equality. You would have known that if you had read your Bible. It has been almost 3 years, so maybe you have finally gotten around to reading it. And in reading the Bible, you will have learned your place in the hiearchy as a woman. I am curious if you have come to accept it?
jrcahill2 6 months ago
Wow, these comments show just how devoid of brains and hearts most people here are.
BoggiD101 6 months ago
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Hey if there is no GOD.... how has anyone really been far even as decided to use even how want to do look more like?
Christians: 1
Democrats: 0
gears5336 7 months ago
I was raised in the mormon religion and I agree with you. From a reasoned perspective, especially from the outside, it is deeply sexist religion. I also agree with one point of the wild range of comments here, that many gender differences are natural. I think we should respect the natural differences while allowing each other to fully realize our potential as human beings. I think we too often extend the natural differences into places where they become discriminatory.
lenkel 7 months ago
what do you do if your dishwasher break?
hit her.
SJGibbons1000 7 months ago
Girl, you are going to the wrong church. What else have you noticed? You can't be all this if you are less than 160cm tall? Go and be priest or whatever you want. What the hell you poor little complaining "angel".
DragonToko 7 months ago
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