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From: tjoemurray
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  • This video means very little. A Christian is also against lying, but people lie every single day. That doesn't make the act of lying morally correct, it just means that the individual that is lying is doing something wrong. Same way that this video just exposes a man for, what he himself would consider a sin, that does not mean that he agrees with gay acts morally speaking. Btw, i'm not passing judgement on gay acts in any way, i'm merely attempting to show that this video means v.little

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  • I was just there to see Cher and Madonna. That does not make me gay.

  • I am just curious can you be ex straight am thinking are there any ministries to convert me to homosexuality.

  • So in other words, your 'exposing' of 'one man' who says he isn't gay but was caught in a 'situation', means that "ALL" men who say they are no longer gay, are then ALL liars by "your standards"?

    Does this mean that 'you' consider God/Jesus to be liars, and that by 'your word' they can't change anyone, gay or straight from what 'they' consider to be a sin? Is this what 'you mean', I want to make sure we have it right.

  • dude its his life and you had no right no matter what the curcumstances were to take a pictures of him and comfront him and write a boook about him that just not right

  • joe joe. could you have gone to this guy without taking a picture of him to embarrass him. keenly he was caught, but did you have to try and humiliate him?

  • @AveolarD The problem is that his public agenda is contributing to the unfair confusion and misery of those who try to actually believe him. If he weren't selling this idea as a (false) product, he would have every right to his privacy. The gay world is very protective and sensitive to closeted men who visit their world---EXCEPT when those "visitors" go out of their way to say Gays are horrible and homosexuality a terrible disease that can be "cured" like alcoholism or a bad cold. Sorry.

  • Hey is Wayne, haven't seen him in years.

  • the bible was not written by God but by man. Its missing a dozen original gospels and several hundred commandments, I did not chose to be gay. You however have clearly chosen to ignore the teachings of Jesus and follow a book devised by men for the control of men.

  • @kattnapp I agree, I am very ashamed of this country and how these religous people are putting periods where God leaves a comma( I heard that from my pastor). God's not finished with us. They are not God, so how can they say that we are going to hell and claiming that they are the most perfect people on Earth? Their is a huge difference between being religious and being Christian.

  • Of Cooooooooourse Cher and Madonna hang out at seedy gay bars. All the time. Any (Ex)-gay drag queen could easily be fooled into thinking so. Right? ;)

  • request the dvd "outraged" from your library. Its about anti-gay politicians who are gay....like Crist from florida.

  • loser.... you are hatred based man... and I am gay.... leave these people alone!

  • I hate guys who try to live on the down low I respect you more if you are open about your sexuality. This is why so many people are dying from Aids because they are not being honest about their lifestyle both men and women. I live in Atlanta and its horrible my best friend is a gay guy and married men go home with him quite often. As a straight woman I feel very sad for the wives.

  • @Anjaayla in all sincerity and as a gay man I also feel very sorry for these women

    they are being decieved in a most horrible way.

    Hetersexual women are high in the stats for HIV and sadly do not find out

    until they get ill as they have no idea they are at risk - it is tragic

    think of children that they may have - who also are affected and can be infected

    all by a man not being man enough

    Hope your friend uses safer sex - if they lie to their wives they will lie to him

  • @silentfades John Paulk's wife isn't being deceived, she's a lesbian. The two of them make their living by being lying assholes and willing tools of the religious right.

  • this guy has my respect... serious... keep exposing all this homophobic incloset cases that make the lives of honest gay men, harder every single day.

  • "john what do you mean there were man and women in that bar? it was drag night"

  • Slip up the back!

  • your gay your gay!

  • HAHA I Lov3 Cher And Madonna!! HAHA!! LMFAO!! Nice One!!!

  • The Guy in the orange top is hot...! whats his name ?

  • The Guy in the orange top is hot...! whats his name ?

  • @claveloux Yeah, really.

  • lol wtf

  • That's one of the craziest stories I ever heard in my life!

    LOL Xd

  • @lonelysith66 I mean, LOL XD

    ^_^

  • WOW i heard about this i live near d.c so before mr. p's closed down. now its called the fire place. there is healing from being gay, there is a life after homosexuality to all those who are reading this don't give up there IS A GOD, AND HE DOES WORK, it is a step by step process that EARNESTLY IF YOU WANT IT god will do the work, forget everything else just ask forforgiveness, god will bring YOU COMPLETELY OUT !!! HALLELUJAH AND THE WORLD WILL UNDERSTAND LOVE, DELIVERANCE PER YOUR LIFE!!

  • Its sick that John Paulk has reverted to his sexual perversions, and I can only hope that he gets more therapy fast before he catches AIDS or something.

    Thanks for exposing him and his sick sexual urges!

    I gave this video thumbs up!!

  • @LakeishaQueen - It's a shame that people like John Paulk have to lie about their sexuality and sexual orientation in order to support themselves financially. That is their sin - not their sexual orientation or sexual acts. He will feel a lot better when he comes out of the closet - all "ex-gays" do. I'm sure his wife doesn't worry about catching AIDS, she's a Lesbian and Lesbians have the fewest cases of AIDS of all groups.

  • @LakeishaQueen really? more non-working/ high suicide rate therapy? Not you would pray he finds a loving partner and settles down?

  • @LakeishaQueen

    Have you ever noticed that all of these "ex" gay folks write these testimonials about how they were miserable drug addicted low life types and then they went to rehab and then found god and saw the error of their ways?

    If their experience is real, wouldn't you think that there would be some happy exgays? Some exgay people who had it all as homosexuals, and discovered one day that they were actually heterosexual?

  • Shame!!!! they put these young confused people who are listening to them through hell, then their slipping in and out of bars and online hitn up dudes.... This is why people are turned away from these hypocrite therapists and ministers. i know because alot of them have hit me up.

  • hahahahaha BEST. STORY. EVER.

  • I have been through exgay therapy and nothing is foolproof. The programs work if you work them. It has been two years since I have acted out and my life is getting better. Some people want to change their lives for the better and it is scary but shouldnt be judged. That should be applauded.

  • @01kwood If you choose to try to be what you are not- that is your business. However, no one should be forced, or pushed into these programs-- they have a 3-5% success rate after 5 years, and 30% suicide rate. Very dangerous.

  • @mikeyinqc what do you do just go on these places and comment to people? I have been to the therapy and I have had slip ups and I am going back and I know the suicide risks cause I think of it all the time. I was not forced or pushed to go there nor am i now.

  • @01kwood I wish you no ill will- If this is the choice you make- I hope it works for you. What I worry about is the young persons who are forced by parents to go to these therapy sessions- often ending in their death. I only offer up the alternative- to become a healthy, adjusted, happy gay person.

  • @mikeyinqc I do not believe in the people being forced to do anything because I know I wouldnt be here now if i were forced by anyone. I was just tired of having a miserable life and being with men who would beat me and treat me like crap. Then after growing up in a Non Christian home I found God for the first time and knew he was with me all along waiting for the chance for me to realize it.

  • @01kwood If this makes you happy- God bless-- I am a Gay Christian. I too had a rough time early on in my life- trying to reconcile Gay with God. But now I am happily married to a wonderful man (7 years and counting now) I have a great career, we travel all over the world, beautiful home, and two wonderful pets (an Akita, and a Rat Terrier) So I guess the only thing I would I might note is that happiness comes from within, Gay Straight or other wise. All the best.

  • lol that is funny " you really thought both cher and maddona were in the same bar?"

  • Fantastic. :) Amazing what people will do to keep fooling people, and convince themselves that they're succeeding. The Ex-Gay leader and Larry Craig would have a lot to talk about...

  • (@ 0:47) YUP, "slipping out the back" alright...BOTH WAYS.

  • lol.......Still...I'd like to believe that somewhere, somehow, Cher and Madonna might be sharing a drink together in a seedy bar too..........

  • im sure its happening right now...though they probably each have a penis tucked between their legs...

  • awesome!

  • LMFAO!

  • Wayne Besen is a hero! Keep up the fight for what is right!

  • 1st off the guy in the video is cute. 2nd I love to see hippocrates get caught up and busted out like that, love it. 3rd Drag Queens Rule.... i know this is old but thanks for the laughs.

  • @cleosole hahaha Hippocrates was the Ancient Greek medical doctor who established what is accepted as current day medical ethical code.

    I don't get how he didn't think he would be caught. There's only a handful of these 'successful' guys.

  • Lol, Cher and Madonna at the same Bar!

  • haha

  • look i know what you are saying but hes gay and thats who he is. your smoking is totaly diferent from this. no one comes out of beying gay cause thats who we are.

  • My last conversation with John was after the news hit and he was asked to step down from his positions. John did what many "ex" people do- he went back to his old environment to see "how he would feel". Ive known ex JW's do this; exLDS, and others. He should have been honest about it. But he sincerely believed it was men AND women.

  • I said "John? What are you looking at?" He replied: "Did you see that woman running by?"

    I told him: "John, that wasn't a woman."

    He looked genuinely surprised. "Guess I've been out of the scene too long."

    By the time this event took place, he'd been married several years. John is still married to his wife, and they have two children. He's a chef now and doing well.

    He denies hitting on anyone and regrets not being upfront about his reasoning for going in the bar. (con'td)

  • John Paulk came to dallas and I was with him, showing him around Dallas and taking him into the gay section called Oaklawn.

    The video claims John was lieing about drag queens and feigning ignorance about them not really being women.

    On the occasion where we walked around the main strip (where the burger place is, etc.) none of the shops or bars were open. It was early yet on a Sunday.

    A "woman" ran by us and John did a typical "guy" thing- he looked! (cont'd)

  • Thanks for 'outing' another hypocrite!

  • OMGs! Dude, that has to be the BEST thing I've heard in YEARS (well, except when my own home state--Iowa--legalized gay marriage!)! ;o) Please keep it coming!

  • hey wayne, your cute. Keep up the good work outing these hypocrites !

  • (@ 0:47) Wayne Besen is right, John Paulk did "slip out the back..." in both ways. LOL

  • Apashiol, you see "no reason to deny yourself the satisfaction of your desire", but not whether it is right or not. Don't pedophiles and rapist have the same attitude?ElProximo is right. Self control should be learned from an early age and is part of living in society. Social conditioning has more influence on sexuality than genetics does. Dads, love your kids.Don't let them be over mothered or seek their validation from the world. Tell Girls they r loved and beautiful&boys u r proud of them.

  • such fucking bullshit.

  • Can you encourage them to stop knocking on my door?

  • No, that is your problem!!

  • He is cute...It is a shame a person does not want to act on his homosexuality. God that makes no mistakes make him gay otherwise he will not have to desire a man. Be Gay. Be happy and be proud o f who you are...

  • I have no power over what I desire. Responsibility and self-control are involved with how I act on my desires.

  • I am no more or less a robot than they are.

    I freely admit I don't know why I turned out to be gay. I just accept that fact and wait for science to find whatever answers it will.

  • By the way, I come from a very large, close family with parents who didn't reject me because of my sexuality.

    My relationship with my father was as close as that of my other brothers and my mother isn't a dominating personality.

  • Were you introduced to homosexuality by an older male when you were a young age?

  • I had no sexual experience with a man when young. Even though I was aware of my attraction to men I only had girlfriends and had sexual relationships with some of them. I just never fell in love with a woman. That happened with a man years later.

    I don't know where you get the idea I willfully prevented it.

    You are so convinced about so many things yet you don't admit to any personal experience.

    Why do you believe you know me better than I know myself?

  • I don't know you at all and you did introduce your personal experience.

    I don't know your experience and that is why I was asking you follow-up questions,

    but,

    by your standards - your own self-report doesn't qualify due to your own cognitive bias.

    Are you saying you did not have free will or choice in your homosexual choice?

    You did it like a robot or even like an animal who simply acts on predetermined instincts whether they like it or not?

  • My self-report doesn't qualify as 'scientific' evidence.

    At least I have personal experience though.

    You haven't supplied any reason to think that your position is based on anything but out-dated theories that were rejected through lack of evidence.

    You don't even have personal experience to fall back on.

    Just as my heterosexual siblings didn't 'choose' to be heterosexual, didn't become heterosexual as an act of free-will, I didn't choose to be attracted to the same sex.

  • Sure but you chose to act on it.

    I sometimes have the urge to violently assault certain motorists. A few times I have had a sort of urge to want to kill other male motorists. At the time I am sure I would get satisfaction from it,

    however,

    This does not make me a murderer. I don't act on it.

    I have heard murderers say 'it just happened..and then the bat hit him.. I didnt even mean it',

    As if they were not even responsible for it but instead their unchosen orientation did it for them.

  • There is a big difference between violently assaulting someone and choosing to satisfy a desire for consensual relations with someone. This is obvious to anyone who can think clearly.

    It doesn't alter the fact that I didn't create the desire.

    Having the desire already, I see absolutely no reason to deny myself the satisfaction of that desire.

  • Wow, you've just compared a gay man to a murderer. Nice work. More to the point, you've admitted that you'd get satisfaction from killing someone. Go ElProximo...........

  • LOL, that's right, it isn't possible that he could just BE that way. Something MUST have CAUSED it............. LMFAO

  • This question is directed at you ElProximo specifically.

  • When I hear the stories of people who have gone through this I wish they could find peace with themselves as I have.

    So I repeat my question. Why are you so invested in this?

  • Passions aside, I have found this discussion productive.

    I have before seen studies showing a highly disproportionate number of homosexuals have a very similar family history: The dominant mother and the distant father. Of course this is the social and psychological more so than 'physical' scenario.

    It becomes very difficult to believe that it just so happens those are the ones born with a hormone imbalance in utero or just happen to have mixed wires inherent to their physiology.

  • Also, the self-reports of ex-gay members do not constitute scientific evidence.

  • Again, you are trying to make mixtures between concepts of 'scientific evidence' and 'legal evidence' and 'personal experience'.

    Ex-Gay ministries and orgs have their own social workers and psychologists/psychiatrists who put together their own evidence, statistics and research as any other.

    So does AA, Narc-Anon, sex offender programs in prisons and for that matter Weight Loss programs.

    It is all 'evidence'.

  • Not all 'evidence' qualifies as scientific evidence.

    Self-reports don't qualify because of the well known cognitive biases at play.

    I have a question for you. Are you someone who has undergone reparative to not be gay? Why your personal interest in all this?

    My interest stems from the fact that I am gay, in a long-term relationship and I live a productive, happy life. I don't have any issues with drink or drugs.

  • I am sure you do live a productive life. Nobody is arguing that homosexuality leads to unhappy worthless lives.

    I smoke cigarettes one after the other daily and live a productive and happy life without alcohol or drink problems.

    However, One thing you are missing and will miss is falling in love with a woman, the romance and seduction and bonding and a life together and reproducing children and becoming a family.

    You don't have that.

    You will miss that.

  • ElProximo,

    I notice you make no mention of your sexuality. Are you an ex-gay with personal experience of reparative therapy?

    Or are you a Christian who believes in the literal truth of the Bible and for this reason believes homosexuality is wrong?

    Plenty of heterosexuals choose not to have children.

    Are you saying your only interest in this is because you believe everyone should have children? That without children our lives are not worth living?

  • It is true plenty of men will not find and fall in love with a woman and among those that do fall in love and marry a woman some cannot have children.

    Likewise,

    Many people won't live to be 50 years old.

    However,

    That doesn't change the fact you are choosing to be with a man and will not experience a love life with a woman.

    Some wish for it and make all preparations for it and don't find it.

    You are willfully preventing it.

    That is the difference.

  • There are a lot of people str8 that are unhappy...And to have children and wife does not make a man happy...Happiness is a state of mind...Being gay is ok. You are st8 and that might be ok too...People come in all colors and there are gay, bi and str8....and God creates gay, bi and str8. if God did not want gay people he will not create gay people

  • @luis10hot So did got creat pedophiles, zoophilics, rapists, murderes, fornicators? Yes god created man, but had nothing to do with sinful acts.

  • You're not comparing pedophiles, rapists and murderers to being homosexual now are you? I'm thinking probably not but I just want to make it clear.

  • @rotena25 - Yeah, God created Adam and Eve and Cain and Able - nothing to do with sinful acts. Bigots like you prefer killing to loving, don't you?

  • @luis10hot u' re absolutely Luis....even if I'm not sure that God is the creator ! ;) Hugs

  • @luis10hot How can god create something if he doesn't exist?

  • @camelont688 Stephen Colbert:"I am standing up to represent an opressed minority, non-existant people"

  • @luis10hot hm who u began is a matter of decision. God did not create them gay, they decide to be gay. becoz if u ready ur bible closely you will see. He says it himself it is an abomination to his eye. so u became what u are by decision u make.

  • @laphiphila According to Romans 1:26 "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:....." Some people have this happen from earliest childhood and for some they discover it to have happened to them throughout life. Once "God gives them up unto vile affections" It is no longer a choice. This is a spiritual and sinful state and condition that only salvation by the blood of Christ can overcome. Once the vile affections take over a person is driven to have sex with members of the same sex.

  • @sunflyer40 I'm not looking for a debate at all but I have to quote this out. you may use that verse as abandoning homosexual acts but, as far as I have read on that WHOLE chapter, it is quite the opposite of our modern day thinking of homosexuality. if you look at the scriptures a bit more the direct reason for God giving up to their "vile affections" was because they were worshipping idols that were not God. don't tell me I am wrong it's in the bible, and there ARE gays who love God.

  • @doggygenesis, It wasn't just their worshiping of idols which got them in trouble, PLEASE do not take scripture out of context for your own purposes. Example: look at how those "men" were going to bust down the door, to get to the two 'angels' to try and 'rape' them if given the chance (don't believe me, read the verse for yourself, speak with a Messianic Rabbi for even 'clearer' reference on this verse). YES, there are gays who love God, but He does NOT approve of SIN in ANY form.

  • @jebeja " It wasn't just their worshiping of idols which got them in trouble, PLEASE do not take scripture out of context for your own purposes" just as you did by completely ommiting out the first part of the romans verse which completely explained WHY they were doing this in the first place? and if you are refering to sodom and gomorrah this is ANGELS we are talking about, not gay people doing this. gay men do not rape people( well....some...but heteresexuals are not ommited out neither)

  • @jebeja sodom and gomorrah is NOT a tale about what happens to homosexuals. homosexuality, by definition, is CONSENT between two males/females. in the story the angels were about to be raped by these guys and what does lot do? send his daughters at them. what morality can you learn from it in the first place? as far as rabbis( yes I would even say messanic ones too) would agree that that story was about the inhumanity and inhospitality of the people. most gays are quite gentle and hospital.

  • @doggygenesis, 'Several factors' lead to the destruction of sodom and gomorrah, but according to the Messianic Rabbi's, 'sexual immorality' and the fact that those men would have raped those angels, was the 'biggest one'. I've heard and read the 'inhumanity and inhospitality comments' but have been told that there's NO basis to this. PLEASE don't put words in my mouth, I never said that gays, lesbians, etc. were not gentle or hospitable? Once again, it's a matter of the 'heart' with God.

  • @jebeja well you know homosexuals don't rape people. they consent. these sodom guys wanted to RAPE the angels. this was not consensual sex. they didn't go to lot and were like" hey Lot. these guys seem interesting. can u introduce us?" they were like " GIVE THEM TO US SO WE CAN SREW THEM!." if anything "sexual immoral" was to be described it was the fact these men were going to rape them. if it was on the bases of consensual homosexual intercourse it would be an entirely different story.

  • @jebeja "Once again, it's a matter of the 'heart' with God. " well in this case gays and lesbiens are fine. they don't gather around the house of a handsome same sx person and bang on their doors asking to have sex. And I am very sure that most gays and lesbians want a loving relationship. I believe God finds this to be good, regardless if it is "nonprocreational."

  • @jebeja "YES, there are gays who love God, but He does NOT approve of SIN in ANY form." then why let it exist/ we could have a month long discussion on the birth of evil but I am not putting myself into that. I will not say that God created sin and evil but he could easily have removed such a "crime against nature" aside if he wanted too. he i omnipotent and omnisent. if that is the case he could have easily end it without putting ppl into hell.

    

  • @jebeja and before you go onto me some more about the matter homosexuality was not studied until the 19th century. homosexuality itself was not looked upon horribly by the church until the 12th century. and even the king james you know as the one who wrote the bible was having relationships with males and was know as "queen james" and was even reffered in one sentence as this: "Elizabeth to be king, now James the queen."( I am not lying there is enough records to show he has)

  • @doggygenesis, "homosexuality itself was not looked upon". doggygenesis, truth be told no matter what I, God, Jesus, or anyone else says to 'you' (and others who think like you sadly) 'you' already have 'your' mind made up about "what sounds like truth to you", but is nothing more than an out and out lie I'm sorry to say. 'Your comments' make the Bible 'valid' on ALL fronts, and that's the sad part. God/Jesus are concerned & care about u. I hope u seek them out for "real" truth.

  • @jebeja sweety I'm going to say this only once. you do not know anything about my religious background, my sexual background, or anything personal about me. I just came out recently( last year in fact) and for the 15 years of my life since I was 8 I tried to like girls. I honestly to God did but I found myself still liking boys more than girls.And I was VERY religious. I knew the bible more than my youth group and I read,debated, and even studied upon its history more than anyone else.

  • @doggygenesis, I never said anything about your 'religious (which God/Jesus spoke against and only give one 'good' reference to, James 1:26,27) or sexual background' because this isn't about religion, and I didn't bring up your sexual identity either. I was addressing the video. doggygenesis, God/Jesus could care less about how 'religious we are', He's looking at what's going on in our 'hearts' which speaks volumes. What role does the Holy Spirit play in what u've learned about the Bible?

  • @jebeja I'm sorry. if it is what I feel and believe that you want to hear, here it is. I believe God IS okay with gays and lesbians. i, such as yourself, thought that it was wrong. but you know. there are people that choose to be single and celibate and no one gets them the bad glare or " it is wrong" look. If two people want to be together and love then I believe it is God-sent. I believe that there is a guiding force( Holy spirit/God/ whatever it is called) that takes over our lives.

  • @jebeja and sorry.I admit it was a mistake on my part. as far as that quote and hte 'religious aspect" i truly understand what you are talking about. as far as I have been through ( especially coming out) i believe that the holy spirit/outer force/higher power protected me when i came out and helped me through understanding my feelings and that of the natural world. I know the bible is great and all but being attached to paper will never get you attached to the inner spiritual being.

  • @jebeja but i doubt you do the same :). i am very positive that you are a kind person and that you also prove your loyalty to God by connecting more to the spiritual aspect that is said to locate inside of you rather than just the bible alone. which you have all my respects :). and I am extremely glad you are not extremely intolerant( well...intolerant at all). it is hard to find alot of christians such as yourself.

  • @jebeja and I DID read what the bible supposedly said about homosexuality. and I DID read romans. Back and forth. and I even studied revelations. And this was not too long ago. do you really think this is something that is easily chosen like a piece of candy on the street/ this is a SEXUALITY. human sexuality is very complexed, more than you will ever admit to. And i still believe in a higher power but not the way you and every christian define that outer power.

  • @doggygenesis, "I DID read what the Bible supposedly said about homosexuality and I DID read Romans"..'Supposedly'?? That's 'your' answer? When you read the Bible, what exactly were 'you' looking for, and did you "ask the Holy Spirit to give you clarity and understanding" when you did so? I'm not trying to beat you down or demean you, but without 'His' help we could be reading a cook book. 'Clarity and understanding of the scriptures are part of the Holy Spirit's character. 'Higher Power'?

  • @jebeja well you know I did. I had an apiphany and I felt that something was lifted off my shoulders. a terrible pain that left me hurt when i denied this part of me. I highly doubt that the holy spirit wants us in pain.

  • @doggygenesis, "30,000 Christian denominations", that's NOT God's doing it's man's. Don't know what 'you' mean by 'disagree', as I only stick to what the Bible says, because 'He's always been on target. I said "what sounds true to you" because despite what I've said, look at what 'you' wrote and that will give you a glue.

  • @jebeja " 'Your comments' make the Bible 'valid' on ALL fronts, and that's the sad part" valid or unvalid is up to you, but if you are willing to stone adulterers, your own (adult) child if they do something wrong, and letting YOUR man( if you're a girl) get 100 wives, then be prepared for hard truth cause that's in the bible and God has no problem with these. old testament or not EVERY part of the bible to you is "valid' so i think you need to read the book a bit more.

  • @jebeja ." I hope u seek them out for "real" truth" i do not know what is up with have of the people on here thinking I never been part of a christian houshold. I HAVE grown up in the christian faith and I certainly knew more than the youth groups or my parents combined. I believed every single word in the bible, and you know what? I still believe in that higher power, but I do NOT consider it like the christian faith because of most of the pain caused by the church that I experienced.

  • @jebeja "God/Jesus are concerned & care about u" yes i believe both do love and care about me. i certainly do and I believe it...BUT I will never become part of the christian faith due to our societies abuss of this religion, and how far people will do with it to get a point across and to keep anything in a small box. I still believe and love God. rest assured. but i believe he is not going to put me in the flames of hell for wanting a consenting relationship with another man.

  • @sunflyer40 and also if these so called "ex-gay" ministries were true than the subject in the video above should have never happened. And the Bible is completely vague on the subject. In fact homosexuality was not studied until the 19th century, there was never any scientific studies of the human sexual nature at the time. there is even controversy about those scriptures in judaism( the guys that made the old testament and most christians don't bother to read unless it is gay related)

  • @doggygenesis, "completely vague on the subject of homosexuality"? You're kidding right? With verses like Romans 1: 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another: men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Clear enough?

  • @jebeja it's amazing that you skipped the verse BEFORE this one. it states clearly( WHATEVER way you interpret it it IS in that order) that the reason why they were doing these things was because thwey were worshipping idols in the first place. how many homosexuals today decide to worship an idol? and yes sweetheart I have read this verse. you have to look at these things by both historical and translated contexts.

  • @luis10hot THANK YOU, and being GAY REALLY means to eb happy NOT A HOMOSEXUAL. And honestly, I'm Bi Sexual, on a social manner, but I'm not my label. I'm more than that.

  • But here is a general question: Suppose someone drinks daily. An Alcoholic. They join AA and soon are drinking on weekends but sober most times. Eventually going a month but then a 24hr binge drunk.

    Maybe a year later they are sober 99 days but on that 100th night they lose it, drunk all night.

    Okay.

    Do we say AHA.. CAUGHT in a LIE!

    Do we call that a failure?

    Are they frauds?

    or,

    Wouldn't we say that is still a problem they have BUT vastly improved from where they started?

  • A homosexual orientation is not like an addiction, and as a false analogy it is what's known as an informal fallacy.

  • Who says homosexuality is not like an addiction?

    You?

    Notice how you so presumed your belief was 'fact' that you even felt the need to name any other contradicting opinions as 'logical fallacies' lol.

    Many say it is.

    Why should I believe your theory?

    btw... don't try and think of 'false analogies' and work on that.

    Just look at my question for what it is.

    I think you get silly when you start trying to see 'analogies' and 'fallacies'.

    Is the drinker a failure at a binge or mostly better?

  • ElProximo,

    The assertion that homosexuality is a learned behaviour like alcohol drinking is yours.

    YOU provide NO evidence. The onus is on you to provide proof.

    Homosexuality isn't a choice, an idea scientifically discredited.

    The idea isn't original and is in fact a discredited psychoanalytical theory that is decades old.

    Psychoanalysis itself isn't considered scientific.

  • Apash - no, I do not have any 'onus' on me to prove anything.

    Further more, your new theory doesn't get to become the 'default truth' unless somehow 'proven otherwise'.

    And,

    In fact, for most of human history in most cultures worldwide has been the 'behavior' premise.

    and,

    No, 'science' did not discredit anything. In fact, homosexuality (and name for a mental illness) was 'delisted' as a result of sheer political protest and not of 'science'.

    And,

    It most certainly is a physical act done.

  • ElProximo,

    Your refusal to prove anything betrays the fact you make a naked assertion.

    Your reference to human history and most cultures is another fallacious argument, Argumentum ad populum.

    Unlike alcohol addiction where one first has to start drinking before becoming addicted, a person who is homosexual experiences same-sex desire long before ever having sex.

    Homosexuality is an orientation, not just a behaviour.

  • Apash,

    You have refused to prove anything and have offered zero evidence and certainly no proof for you new theory.

    In fact, if you talk 'onus' and 'burden of proof' it would (if anything) be ON YOU to provide the evidence for the NEW contention.

    Yes. You do not understand how to argue and are mixing legal terms, 'logical fallacy claims' and scientific standards.

    and,

    Yes, plenty of us desired to drink alcohol before we did.

    Same for nearly any other behavior.

    Desire then act.

    Wow.

  • It is not just my assertion but based on observation.

    Many imprisoned men engage in situational homosexuality yet once released will return to sex with women. Their sexual orientation isn't changed.

    A heterosexual can choose celibacy but still remain attracted to the opposite sex. They just choose not to act on their desires.

    These so called 'ex-gays' admit to still feeling same-sex attraction, they just choose not to act on it.

    There is no evidence for sexual orientation ever changing.

  • Where are you getting this information from?

    There is little homosexual behavior in prison (I would safely say no more or less than anywhere else) and those who have may do so afterwards.

    The critics of ex-gay are minimizing numbers but find somewhere between 5 and 10% do permanently change including inner desires.

    (and not far from AA numbers btw)

    But more so.. ..Plenty of lusts (or 'orientations' as you say) go on through life.

    Shoe fetish.

    BDSM lusts.

    Born shoesexuals?

    Born whipsexuals?

  • You only have to google for STD's in prison to find the information.

    Just because you say there is little homosexual behaviour in prison doesn't make it so.

    There is mounting evidence that hormonal influences in utero seem to be one cause of homosexuality.

    My own position is whatever the causes, a person sexual expression shouldn't be dictated by Bible thumpers or government.

    If you subscribe to some superstition that says you shouldn't be gay you're free to torment yourself trying to not to be.

  • Oh there is definitely STDs among inmates. Hep C is also pandemic.. nearly 'epidemic'. The idea of any sort of disproportionate homosexuality is almost entirely manufactured by comedians and dramas like 'Oz' etc.

    Not to say it doesn't happen but no reason to believe any more than you might find outside.

    Just spend some time in prison and find out. ;)

  • APA, part 2:

    "There is simply no sufficiently scientifically sound evidence that sexual orientation can be changed. Our further concern is that the positions espoused by NARTH and Focus on the Family create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish.

  • American Psychological Association, 2006:

    For over three decades the consensus of the mental health community has been that homosexuality is not an illness and therefore not in need of a cure. The APAs concern about the positions espoused by NARTH (The National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality) and so-called conversion therapy is that they are not supported by the science...."

  • I always wonder why people who are against homosexuality waste so much energy obsessing about other people's sex life.

    It's never surprising when they get caught having gay sex ala Haggard.

    All these ridiculous arguments are probably the same ones they use on themselves to try to control their urges.

    Just as calling it a behaviour helps them believe that not acting on their desires means they are 'straight'.

    Self-delusion.

  • The loonies who harp on about what's natural don't refuse treatment for cancer because cancer is 'natural'.

    Pure hypocrisy.

  • Exciteme777,

    Your argument about oral sex being ok is bollocks as evidence shows that HIV can in rare circumstances be passed through oral sex.

  • I still am amazed when people who believe that the Bible is a reliable historical document in spite of all the archaeology debunking it, quote other nuts and think it's 'evidence'.

    As for this 'natural' nonsense.

    Clothing, spectacles, automobiles, airplanes, computers, modern medicine etc, are all examples of human not accepting nature.

    Human history is the story of humans going beyond nature.

  • The study factually shows that homosexuality is not a stable trait. The authors found to their surprise that homosexuality tended spontaneously to convert into heterosexuality as people aged. Researchers all over the world have conducted studies on hundreds of thousands of people which strongly confirmed Laumann. Yet the mental health guilds dont even mention it because they have homosexual psychologists in positions of power at the APA hiding the truth.

  • The 1994 Laumann study, The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United State. was based on a survey of American from the ages of 18 and 60 and is universally recognized as definitive. Numerous large-scale epidemiologic survey have repeatedly confirmed and strengthened its findings. One of the major points of the Laumann study, which the authors themselves did not expect, is that homosexuality as a fixed trait scarcely even seems to exist

  • Who cares??? Whether it's a disorder, or psychological, or biological, or stable, or whatever, ALL PEOPLE deserve equal civil rights. We are here, we are queer, so you'll just have to get used to it... or continue to bang your head against the wall. No one believes your rants, so you have become your own worst enemy. Good luck with that.

  • all u see is body parts but a human body is so complex that not even the smartest doctors and scientists know much about it yet there for u cannot be certain that there is a gay gene people are still testing this

  • Exciteme777

    Your comment about the 'design' of the body is ignorance.

    As human heads have got bigger it's more difficult giving birth.

    Wisdom teeth don't fit in jaws and were a major cause of death.

    The appendix kills people because we don't digest grass.

    Back pain is common because our spines are still adjusting to walking upright.

    No 'designer'.

    I'm sure if a woman offers you oral sex you reply ' Your mouth was made for food, not for penises', but most people wouldn't find it 'unnatural'.

  • Your examples don't change the purpose of the body parts. It's much easier to argue oral sex is ok because you have to look at the way our bodies were designed. The mouth is a sucking licking organ and lubricates itself. No (mechanical vs. viral) damage comes to the mouth from this. But the anus is a waste organ and is damaged by penetration; it's doesn't lubricate. Regardless, if oral sex was still considered abnormal, take it away and heterosexuals can still have normal sex with the genitals.

  • AS i have stated before, homosexuality is used in nature to help control the population. Thus, it DOES have a role for ALL animals (BTW, that include humans, sweetcakes!)

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  • It is idiotic to point to history, find an example of something and maintain this is 'natural' ,or that we must copy it. Enslaving other human beings was common. Organised pederasty, oppression of women and treating them like property are historical.

    Murder and rape are 'natural'. It doesn't mean they're desirable. Our society doesn't look to the past to decide what's right.

    If marriage is a positive thing for society, you need to give evidence why it benefits society to deny it to gays.

  • Exciteme, you say that heterosexual marriage has existed for obvious reasons. Really? Which ones? For rich old man/hot young chick weddings? For shotgun weddings? For drunk Britney Spears Las Vegas weddings? For a divorce rate of 50%?

  • What ridiculous examples. Obvious reasons for a man and woman to enjoy sex without fear of STDs, to have children in a safe environment where they're loved and benefit from how a male and female contribute to their development in unique, beneficial and special ways; and of course in the only arrangement where children can truly be made: by a male and female together just as nature intended. Homosexuals have none of these things. Why? Cause it's a disorder.

  • @ exciteme777:

    yes sweetcakes, they ARE ridiculous examples... of how heteros have messed up marriage ALL ON THEIR OWN, without any help from the gay community. So much for the "sanctity" of marriage!

    It's obvious that marriage would cut down on STD's for gay couples too. As for the rest of your argument, we would need to get rid of childless couples and single parents too, since they don't fit your criteria.

  • Comment removed

  • "we would need to get rid of childless couples and single parents too, since they don't fit your criteria." You just don't understand the difference between design vs. defect, do you? Only heterosexuals were designed to have children. Not one homosexual can ever have kids--50 billion gay couples couldn't have kids--This is much different than a heterosexual couple that has a reproductive defect. In other words, no homosexual was designed for procreation, only heterosexuals were.

  • wrong again. it's been proven that homosexuality often occurs as a way to handle over-population in a species. if gay folk adopt, then that helps even more.

  • Oh, and by the way, ExciteMe, you still haven't explained why it's OK for heteros to keep marriage to themselves in light of the terrible things they have done to it... like divorce, may/december weddings, marriages for money, drunk vegas-style weddings, shotgum weddings, etc. Why do heteros deserve to have marriage after all that?

  • i don't believe in turning someone straight.

    but this is very sad. this man is obviously in complete denial, and it's depressing that you would make it even worse for him.

  • you have to know the back story in order to understand why this was necessary. John Paulk has done nothing but spread lies about how you can "cure" gays. As you can see, he was on the cover of Newsweek and has maintained a very high profile in order to hurt the gay community. Yes, it made it worse for him, but he was hypocritical and intentionally damaged the gay movement. It also showed that there is no cure for being gay. (And none is needed, btw :)

    Cheers...

  • fuck this, at the end of the day by the time you've reached the end of puberty you are either gay straight or bi, thats the way your born, that what your hormones decide not you, there nothing wrong with different sexualitys like there nothing wrong with people of diferent colours and creeds, whats wrong is people who wont face up and be proud of who they are, thats wrong, sad and pathetic, full stop..!

  • this guy is attractive and funny... in a sad way!! xD

  • 3 words: Antisocial Personality Disorder

    this ex-gay bullshit is a scam, they make a killing off of it by preying on vulnerable confused people under the guise of religion and that fear of being abandoned by their families and hop on the hog at night getting facials from twinks on meth at the bars.

    Although I think that the gay rights movement takes it to the opposite extreme a lot, by teaching people that being gay has to be mentioned in every sentence, this type of shit is insane.

  • there are secret gays everywhere pretending to be straight and claiming to be homophobic. this is nothing new...on the down low. so what. pro-choice. if he wants to not say, leave it at that. but to be a hypocrit...he needs to be slapped.

  • You stupid idiot !

  • lol hypocrit